Kerri from Murphy's Sketches On Parenting Her Autistic Child

0:00Sarah Powell: Hi, this is Matt from P1 with Matt and Tommy and this episode is sponsored by eBay. The cars you'll find on eBay are just different. They come with a story that you can't wait to share. Like this 1973 Dodge Charger on eBay that has been tucked away in an Arizona barn for over 40 years, only 55 ,000 miles and somehow in great running order. It even has a rare sunroof. Suddenly a car that was hidden for decades is being delivered in just a few clicks with eBay's secure purchase. All the paperwork handled. There are thousands of cars on eBay, from unique finds like the Pontiac Grand Prix SJ to daily drivers, and now with a new way to buy them.

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1:50I need Spiller to secureede the

1:54Sarah Powell: It's Tuesday! It is! How are you? What's going on? Um, what's going on? Um, I'm learning to deal with a incredibly competitive household. Oh, I wonder where they got that from.

2:10Kerri Cunningham: No idea.

2:11Sarah Powell: Do your kids constantly try and beat each other at everything? See, no. Right. Yeah. Should I go now?

2:20Kerri Cunningham: no I was gonna say though because they've got very different interests right and I find that they almost won't compete with each other if that makes sense like Gigi will just if she sees the slightest bit of like you know Axel trying to come on let's try and beat me in a race or try you're right mate but i think she knows that winds him up more right do you know what i mean it's like her yeah like tactic of winding him up because she knows she won't beat him because he's like that much older than her so why so she just thinks yeah i'm not getting involved with your games but

3:03Sarah Powell: james and axel yeah james and axel yeah yeah yeah yeah right massively yeah because because my kids are in a stage now where they're literally like well yeah i woke up at uh 6 26 and then kit's like well i woke up at 6 24 and then she's like well actually my clock was wrong so it was 6 22 and i'm like why are you trying to win at who got up early both of you woke up too fucking early do you know what i mean like it's that it's that level everything they are bickering

3:28Kerri Cunningham: non-stop about it but they're quite similar in age really they're 15 16 yeah yeah yeah but also

3:34Sarah Powell: they're just this fierce competitor which i really want yeah but not about stuff like that i use the last bit of the ketchup no i use last bit of the ketchup it's like shut up

3:44Kerri Cunningham: Oh, my God. I get them trying to do each other over with things. Oh, yeah. Like, you know, I don't know. I'll say to Gigi something like, oh, my gosh, like, that was so good. Well done for doing that. She goes, yeah, Axel would never do that, would he? Or, like, you know, she's doing something and he looks at me like, oh, my God, she's so annoying. Yeah. He'll, like, they want to be on my side. Yeah.

4:05Sarah Powell: Like, when they say, like, oh, do you remember when it was just the two of us?

4:07Kerri Cunningham: Oh, Axel says it all the time.

4:09Sarah Powell: Wouldn't it be nice if Kit just wasn't around anymore? Yeah. And I'm like, oh.

4:13Kerri Cunningham: I'm not glad that Luna says that, but I am because it makes me feel better. Yeah.

4:17Sarah Powell: I mean, it's Isla's favourite thing to be like, oh, wasn't it just the best time ever when it was just the three of us? And the other two just look at her like, you bitch. Oh my God.

4:26Kerri Cunningham: It's really bad. See, I'm going away with Gigi on my own in Feb half-term. Where are you going? She's doing this dance show, right, in Disneyland Paris. What? You haven't spoken about this. I think it's like a, I don't really know anything about it, to be quite honest with you, other than the day I'm going. I haven't even got a return flight. I don't even know what you ain't never going on, but she loves it. She loves, she's like, oh, well me and mum are going to do that when you're not there because we won't have to do what you want to do and we can just do what we want to do. And it's all very much like I'm better friends with mum than you are.

5:02Kerri Cunningham: Right. Okay. Like all that. Like if, yeah, sassiness. Yeah.

5:06Sarah Powell: And I get that because probably that's, you know, she's going to get your unadulted. Unadulted? Undivided. No, undivided. Not what I just said. Undivided attention for that whole four or five days, which is going to be so lovely. So is Axel fine with it? Is he like, yeah, whatever?

5:22Kerri Cunningham: Yeah, I mean, he would rather stick pins in his eyes. So it's absolutely fine. I mean, we went on holiday with her last year on our own. I remember that. He didn't want to come with us. So he is his own, like, you know, his own person. If he doesn't want to do something, he won't. But he does get a bit like, oh, you're going to get more time with mum than me. Right, okay. And this is, you know, not, not, he likes to be the golden boy. So of course he does. Golden balls. Yeah.

5:47Sarah Powell: It's just getting, it's just, I would say it's ramping up to like level 10 plus. It's so much so they're sort of trapping in, trapping each other in rooms just to be like, ah, you're stuck in there. And I'm like, everyone shut up and stop. Like it's getting quite full on. So I'm going to have to have, because Kit is so cheeky. Like he does not care. He's like, yeah, whatever. What are you going to do to me? You're not going to do anything to me anyway. So it's like, so I'm, you know that Eminem song, We've Created a Monster. Yeah. Yeah, that is where we're at at the moment.

6:16Kerri Cunningham: Right, okay. Do you know what? It's funny because it's both the younger kids that are like that because James has said to me in 2026, we need to put boundaries in place with Gigi. Like that's like what we've got to do. Right. You know, we've got to sort her out. You know, she needs to toe the line, like that sort of child. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. And he thinks what worked with Axl will work with her. No way. just absolutely won't and it makes me laugh so much it is exactly the same in our house like i

6:48Sarah Powell: can say to luna luna stop doing and she'll go oh my god mommy i'm so sorry i would never want to do anything to upset you i go to kit kit stop doing that and he goes what are you gonna do about it

6:58Kerri Cunningham: he's like you stink yeah yeah yeah what yeah no i just yeah i just get i don't know i say to acts all like oh you know what do you want to do this weekend like oh well what do you want to do mom like let's do something together and then Gigi what do you want to do she goes nothing nothing with you or what you would want to do and I'm like okay you're six years old and it's great what do you want to be when you're older sassy that's actually what she says sassy yeah what do

7:28Sarah Powell: you want to be when you're older to be fair knowing Gigi she would probably make sassy as a career like a mega influencer oh my god watch this face guys

7:43Kerri Cunningham: oh god but yeah it is yeah the parenting different kids is the thing that is just wild

7:51Sarah Powell: let's do a whole podcast on it we'll get an expert in I'm sure there's some sort of like genetic makeup that really is the reason why they're like there must be something there must be some theory behind it Up until then, we'll just have to fucking deal with it. Okay, let's just get on with it. Buckle up, bitches. Let's get into today's conversation. It was so wonderful chatting to today's guest. She's got such a huge online following for her beautiful poems, her stories, her illustrations. But what's been so lovely, I guess, kind of, you know, watching her and the way that she's sort of started talking about, you know, her family setup and what's going on at home at the moment.

8:24Sarah Powell: And we haven't actually had somebody on the podcast talking about having a neurodivergent kid for a while.

8:29Kerri Cunningham: No, and I think as well, we've sort of seen her grow online, but not her. I don't think I'd ever seen what she actually looked like or heard her voice before. And I think she probably, maybe if this hadn't have happened, what happened to her in recent years, maybe she would have stayed like that, behind the poems, behind the illustrations. But she has decided that it wouldn't be authentic if she's posting all of these little snippets every day from her life to then not be honest about what's going on behind the scenes. Yeah, it was a really lovely conversation. Yeah, it was a really, really interesting conversation.

9:07Kerri Cunningham: Who are we talking to today, Georgia? Let's get into it.

9:09Sarah Powell: We are chatting to Kerry from Murphy Sketches. Joining us on the podcast today. I think I just both Georgia and I just said congratulations on the amazing empire I'm going to call it that this particular lady has built when she was very humble and said oh I don't know I don't know but an absolute powerhouse with what she's been doing mum author and illustrator it's Kerry Cunningham.

9:32Kerri Cunningham: Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for coming on. Now, it's actually amazing to have you on because we see your work shared online all of the time by, you know, various different people. And for those who don't know, you're Murphy's Sketches online. But welcome to you. It's so nice to see your face and hear your voice. So for those who don't know the story and who you are, do you want to just give a little bit of background on your family setup and then also how you came to start your online business?

10:06Helena O'Neill: Yeah, absolutely. So I don't know where to start, really. So if you go back to when I was a kid, I've always loved drawing, loved writing, always been creative. And it's just always been like my favorite thing to draw. so I did it at you know college and then at university I studied fine art and then when I left I kind of felt like I had to go and get a proper job and wasn't really going to make it in any sense you know as as an artist um I think that was a long time ago and I don't think back then there was the same opportunities that there are now you know to sort of share things online and there wasn't anything like that at that time so it was a lot harder to be successful in that sort of um you know industry so I moved to Manchester and I became um well I worked in retail and then I became a visual merchandiser um which I loved absolutely loved it so you know back then I really loved clothes I was really into fashion I was obviously a lot younger um really enjoyed it and then I ended up working for a huge online retailer as a visual merchandiser which again was like at that time it was sort of I'm not going to say dream job but it was I finally felt like I had a level of you know oh this is a real job like I've got a proper job was pretty proud of it really liked it really liked all the people that I worked with very creative as well it was creative yeah even though it was online um which and I'm going to be honest when I went for the interview uh they wanted you to sort of pull together like looks from that season and they obviously wanted you to do it on a computer but I didn't know that so I made like a huge mood board with like cutouts from magazines because I'm not a technical person which might surprise some people but you know it didn't ever spring to my mind to use a computer to do that so I kind of went in with like these boards of looks and they were a bit like oh uh how old school have you yeah exactly they were like okay um but you know they must have sort of seen something that they thought well she's like passionate about it or she clearly enjoys you know what she does so they gave me a chance I'm not gonna lie I did kind of sit there for probably a month thinking I have no idea how to turn you know how to do the most basic of things with this job but it kind of works out and I really enjoyed it and then I fell pregnant with my eldest son um which is a bit of a shock and so I kind of went through that pregnancy thinking I'll be back in work within six months you know I love my job I like my life here in Manchester you know with my friends going out I thought things would sort of return to normal and then I had my son and I kind of say it all the time and it is a bit cheesy but I was just bowled away really by love for him and I didn't want to be separated from him and I didn't want to go back to work in eight till six you know in Manchester by that point we'd moved away to like to be near to my parents so it's going to be like an hour's drive so I just made the decision to to give it up and to find a part-time job which I did and yeah then it was it was kind of having him that reminded me oh yeah I used to really like drawing and painting and to sort of pick up a paintbrush and I think I made a few bits and pieces for his room um and yeah so it was just kind of having him that inspired you know to go back to what I used to enjoy doing and then obviously I started sharing bits and pieces online um three quarters of a million followers later well three quarters of a million followers yeah I mean it's taken a long time though we'll say that it's taken a long time to build up this you know this following in this community of like lovely people that seem to relate to the things

14:04Sarah Powell: that I share and write so yeah what do you think it is about you know your poems and your quotes and the things that you share on online that really resonates with people so much um I think

14:15Helena O'Neill: it might be the the simplicity of it sometimes actually I think you know like I've said this before like I'll sit down I don't know after I've put them to bed and just write something that's just in my head um and sometimes people will absolutely relate to that and you know they'll love it and and it just hits exactly how people are feeling at that time um because most people

14:41Sarah Powell: like if they were you know had a day with their kids and they put them into bed would sort of write like five mil of cowpole. Oh, I've been there. The fact that you can find something creative and meaningful at that time of night is quite a rarity.

14:58Kerri Cunningham: But also, I know what you mean because it feels not old school, but a little bit because it's written and illustrated. I think it feels special for people and away from like the glossy, you know, set up pictures and it feels like an escape, I think. And like a little, I don't know. A bit of magic. Yeah, I love it. And I love when you see, you know, exactly like it's back to school or it's Christmas or whatever time of year. You always seem to articulate it so well. Oh, thank you. We'll be right back after this short break.

15:37Sarah Powell: Hi, this is Matt from P1 with Matt and Tommy and this episode is sponsored by eBay. The cars you'll find on eBay are just different. They come with a story that you can't wait to share. Like this 1973 Dodge Charger on eBay that has been tucked away in an Arizona barn for over 40 years, only 55 ,000 miles and somehow in great running order. It even has a rare sunroof. Suddenly a car that was hidden for decades is being delivered in just a few clicks with eBay's secure purchase. All the paperwork handled. There are thousands of cars on eBay, from unique finds like the Pontiac Grand Prix SJ to daily drivers, and now with a new way to buy them.

16:16Sarah Powell: eBay. Things people love.

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17:18Sarah Powell: Paid for by the Coalition to Empower Our Future.

17:26Sarah Powell: Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? You said there was something about, you know, having your son that sort of reignited that flame for you. does it still make you feel that way now because because your son is what four well so my eldest

17:41Helena O'Neill: son is 10 now um and then I've got a seven-year-old and a four-year-old so I mean yeah definitely because I'm I mean I've wrote a couple of children's books obviously I'm reading with them all the time they love reading they love drawing which makes me incredibly happy um and they're quite creative as well and yeah definitely I think they have no concepts of what I do really they don't care what I do very much you know they see the books and stuff and they're like oh that's cool but I don't think that they understand like and sometimes I don't really think like how big of a deal that is for me you know like you know to have a book and to have wrote a book and have it illustrated there they're like oh okay yeah to them it's just what I do but I think hopefully as they get older they might find that inspiring because when I was younger I've got lovely parents but it was almost like like I mentioned to you before when you leave university you've got to go get a real job you know you've got to go and do something that pays your bills and draw in or whatever it is that you're interested in you know put that to one side and sort of sort of yeah grow up a little bit whereas now I think a really really good thing about our generation is that we can encourage kids to well actually if you want to do that do it try and do it you know just see see how it works out so yeah hopefully as they get older they will they will but yeah I'm continually inspired by them they are everything I'm not sure they ever

19:05Sarah Powell: think we're that cool though like I DJed at David Guetta's night in Ibiza in the summer of like 10 ,000 people there's zero fucks given yeah no I was gonna say no my kids think I'm so uncool but yeah

19:16Helena O'Neill: they don't know as they get older they will they will they will see how cool it is and they will definitely you know they'll think wow my mom's did that you know I can I can do something like

19:27Kerri Cunningham: that so yeah now um obviously the the majority of your sort of business has been about your you know your poetry your sketches like all of that sort of thing but recently you've been sharing a little bit more personal stuff like what's going on in your life and the other day I saw um the video that you put up about your youngest son yeah um and and his speech and and talking and how to a lot of people you know him's repeating words that you've said would not be anything but obviously to you it was a huge thing yeah I want to talk us just through that and also why you decided to share it and how you know how people have reacted to that okay um I'll try not

20:10Helena O'Neill: to waffle too much but I'll take you back to if it's okay with you two yes please yeah um so he is obviously our third child so we've had two children before we've had relatively quote unquote you know normal everything's been as you would expect and it was the same with Bucky that's our youngest son um he was progressing in totally normal again quote unquote you know again as you would expect he was hitting milestones and he was a very very happy chilled like we would say he is the most chilled baby ever he was the most chilled of our three children he was just went along with everything that we had to do which you guys will know you've got two other children you have to just get up and go get out of you know the house in the morning um yeah everything was as you would expect it to be and then when he was around 18 months old um it was a bit like somebody had just swapped our child for another child he so he could say a few words like dada and night he could wave he could clap um he would dance like every time the love monster theme tune came on he would dance every morning before school and then he just woke up one morning and he didn't clap anymore he didn't wave he didn't make any noise really looking back um he it was just a bit like just like the light had gone from his eyes really looking back now you know you'd stand behind him you to say his name and there'd just be no reaction whatsoever so as a mom straight away you think okay something's going on and you speak to other people you know you say well this is a bit weird because he's not doing that anymore and you know like my husband was like oh yeah I think sometimes people try to protect you from things don't they they kind of say oh it'll be fine yeah it'll be fine it's then but there'll be a reason for it sort of thing um and so I really really wanted the health visitor to come and visit him and just you know talk to me about these concerns but it can be tricky getting people to come out and to listen to you really get a lot of the time people will say well just give them a couple more months you know it can be normal um so it was just before his two-year check that the health visitor did come out which actually was a good thing because two-year checks can can go on sort of six months after they turn two can't they so it was good because it was slightly earlier than usual she agreed with me yeah absolutely he's not where he should be in terms of his development and that began the process of getting his diagnosis but to begin with they said it could be a hearing issue so he did actually have glue ear which can be I hear a lot of people link the two together they end up with an autism diagnosis but

23:02Sarah Powell: in the beginning it was a glue glue ear that's interesting yeah it is and I don't know whether

23:07Helena O'Neill: that I don't know whether that's coincidence as in you wouldn't pick up on the glue ear if they were still replying to you do you know what I mean you wouldn't know necessarily they might just get ear infections more frequently but um and I don't want to sound awful when I say this but I kind of clung to that as the explanation and was like oh it's his hearing so that's going to get sorted out and everything will be absolutely fine nothing to worry about and obviously that wasn't the case at all so it was last March that Bucky received his autism diagnosis so there'd been a year before that of um it's this weird thing really where you don't have a diagnosis but you know that you know he's autistic and you feel like silly saying to people oh you know he might be autistic and you get a lot of people saying don't worry such a body thought they were autistic and they're fine now that's people love to say that they're fine now like um yeah it's been really tough it's been a really tough uh couple of years and I think sorry what was what was going on developmental wise in the year it's hard so the last year uh this time last year bookie could not say a single word he could not say anything so he couldn't communicate any I'm gonna get upset talking about it so bear with me he couldn't communicate if he wanted a drink or if he wanted to watch something or if he was tired or if he was you know anything the most basic need he couldn't tell you in any way whatsoever so obviously that leads to a lot of frustration um we would all be frustrated wouldn't we if somebody couldn't understand what we wanted so he was very yeah frustrated very volatile very you know if if you just for a really plain example say you were offering him a biscuit and you said, do you want a cookie?

24:59Helena O'Neill: And he didn't want a cookie, just scream at you, you know, cause you're not, you're not offering him the thing that he wants. Um, so the last sort of year, I really felt a bit like I'd lost who he was. Um, sounds dramatic, but, and I spent a lot of time thinking like, I don't know why can't I get that person back? why can't I get that you know how he was why when he will he be like that again sort of thing um and a lot of people will disagree with that and they will they will say that that's I don't know not ungrateful but you know it's not it wasn't the case at all it was just that I'd never been through this before I'd never experienced it before it was really hard it was really lonely and that's why I'm probably I'm talking about it because I just wanted somebody to say to me oh I've been where you have and I really wanted somebody to give me an outcome that's what I was looking for last year I wanted somebody to go you know but truthfully don't worry because you know I've been exactly where you are and this has been the outcome and it's okay sort of thing and I think what I've come to realize over the last few months is I even though I love to hear people tell me things about their child nobody else is bookie and nobody can give me that outcome But actually, once I've started to accept and, you know, to enjoy the differences in a way, I feel so much better.

26:27And I feel like we are getting our own outcome.

26:30Helena O'Neill: And, you know, he's just brilliant. He is absolutely brilliant. And the more that time has gone on, he has come back to himself. It's interesting because I was speaking to a girl on the podcast, but we'll get to it. But she told me that a regression in autism is not very common at all, which was interesting to hear. but also that it's a bit like having a reset button pressed so you have to go back to the very basics of learning everything so when I look back at that time now it's he looks like a different child like I'll look at pictures from like going on holiday he's not smiling he's not engaged whatsoever now that he's built himself back up again oh my goodness he's just hilarious I mean he's just so much fun and he seems so much happier now that he is able to get across those simple needs you know I want a drink or I want a biscuit or I want to watch something it's um and that's because his language is has come it's because language is progressing definitely but it's also his understanding of our language because that's another thing for him and I can't speak in any way for anybody else but for him personally I think sometimes that in the past year when we've been speaking it's just noise it's just there's no nothing he can pick out well he which must be scary and confusing but now he is you know understanding you better as well so he's understanding routines better and yeah he's just come on so much but the reason that I did want to talk about it on my page is because well firstly it wouldn't be very genuine of me to not say that I was going through something that was you know really affecting me really really making me sad you know really sad really really sad for the last year um yeah and I think I just wanted to other people to kind of be sad with as bad as that sounds sometimes yeah it doesn't feel bad

28:17Sarah Powell: it doesn't feel bad at all it feels like the most natural thing I mean if you're going through something that you've got no experience around you know you're you're you like you've said you are very honestly feeling sad around it as you would do you'd probably want people to reach out to you and say hey look I'm going through it as well or yeah and it's healthy to talk about yeah

28:34Kerri Cunningham: isn't it definitely what are the day-to-day challenges that people might not necessarily know that you have if you've got a child with autism well this is a really good question because sometimes I feel like people see like a really really basic example they might see you

28:53Helena O'Neill: leaving the house and everything's okay but they didn't see the hour before of sort of you know trying to explain well we're going to such a place or you know what we're doing and we've got to get dressed and it's it's like those battles that it's hard I don't know it's like it is everything is a challenge actually at times because it is for us in our situation it was just that understanding of you know one example that I'll use is all of a sudden he just hated going to the kids school which is obviously you have to go there twice a day every day you know to get them and it was like the minute that he knew that was where we were going you know screaming meltdown then I had get him in the car he'd scream at me the entire journey and then he wouldn't had to sort of park down the road um and wait till everyone else had gone and then drive up jump out grab the kids get back in the car and it might seem like nothing to anyone but it's that you know really he's upset he's frustrated he's in distress you're his mom the only thing you ever want to do for your kid is make sure they're happy isn't it and if they're in distress you want to solve that and you want to fix it and if you have no idea how to fix it or you can't fix it because a lot of the time with Bucky not so much now but over the past year if there's something he doesn't want to do in in his brain there's no option I'm not doing it you know whereas you have to do things you have especially if you've got other kids you know you have to get out the door you have to um yeah I think there's and as well it's like it is heartbreaking to like I remember we were having something done in our house and it was I became really really conscious of like the fact that I was with my child but it was silent and I all of a sudden became really aware like oh what if that person's sort of listening and they think that I'm not talking to him or I'm not communicating with him because it got to a point where I almost felt like it was you know it was the right thing to do but you're talking you're talking you're talking and there's nothing coming back and it's upsetting you know it's really really hard I think there's there's so many things that people will be dealing with it's like food like people people will say so he doesn't eat anything he eats like the same five things which is quite common yeah it can be it can be common I think I mean you know you can have fussy children and I think that's what it is like you'll say oh yeah he only eats you know five things people say oh well I knew somebody and they they just wet chicken nuggets all the time.

31:17And it's like that frustration of, I always appreciate

31:22Helena O'Neill: everybody's struggles. Everybody goes through different things as a parent. What might be difficult to one person, you know, it might not seem that way, but we don't know because we're not in their shoes. And I think it's hard to get across how difficult life can be when all of a sudden things that are totally normal become an obstacle. Does that make sense? It's a total sense yeah and it does bear down on you and especially as a mom I think especially you know my husband is very he's he's like positive to the point of like delirious I would say like he's you know he oh it's gonna be fine don't worry and also he's not living that day-to-day all the time so things that I'll be struggling with he won't see it in real time you know so I might say I've had an awful day today and to him he probably thinks well you know it's fine it's so it's almost just you and I think that's why I wanted to speak to mums on Instagram and you know because they are the only ones who know what that's like so yeah you've mentioned a couple of

32:18Sarah Powell: of the challenges that bookie faces um talk to us about you know the the other sort of elements to his autism and and I guess is there a kind of prognosis for the future sort of like a look at

32:32Helena O'Neill: what it what it could be for him well I think this is the thing is that's what I wanted last year you know that since I found out I wanted that I wanted to know well what is going to happen right and I can only speak for us and speak for our situation but it sort of feels like there isn't really a prognosis it's just as he develops and you know what we just kind of have to wait and see you know I mean because everybody with autism is different like just like we're different that's something that my kids always say now they're like well you know everybody's different all people with autism are different so I think I don't yeah I honestly can't answer that question and last year that would have really bugged me and bothered me because I needed to know but now I just think well do you know what he's really happy um he's got really beautiful connections with the people around him again now yeah and he's just I think well just the same way that I look at Murphy and Ada that's my other son and my daughter and I think well what's going to happen you know for you in the next year well I don't know the answer to that question I don't know for Bucky but all I see is he's happy and he's progressing and yeah I think in terms of you know what other aspects to his autism or to him as a person um he's like hyper focused on things to the he's just he'll he'll have something that he likes so he loves sea creatures and he's obsessed with sea creatures he can tell me you know the names of things that I'll yeah he's absolutely if he likes something that's it he's locked in and he loves it he could look at a book about it all day he'll carry a book around um and keep it on one page and you know like he came home from nursery the other day and he's got a favorite book it was like a national geographical ocean book and they said oh we've had to laminate the favorite pages of his book because he's looked at it that much and so for the next three weeks we had to carry around this a3 laminated piece of paper with sharks on and like if we forgot it when we went somewhere we couldn't find it that was not good but yes so he's just I don't know you know there's probably a lot of grown-ups in your life if you look at them you think wow they really like that thing or they're really they're really passionate about that thing and it does make you look at other people and think well there's a lot of aspects of Bucky's personality that I see for example in myself or I see in other people yeah he's just really really um passionate about something if he likes it which is amazing what an

34:50Sarah Powell: amazing skill to have at such a young age you know isn't it yeah definitely and what about your older

34:56Kerri Cunningham: kids yeah how are they with him and has that been a process for them to understand yeah yeah it

35:02Helena O'Neill: really has actually because um my eldest boy is like it sounds so you know stereotypical he is an angel walking on this planet honestly he's just the sweetest boy he's just gorgeous my daughter's absolutely bonkers but yeah exactly but so sweet and because my eldest son is so sensitive like me he very very quickly was aware that Bucky was different to uh you know other children and if he had friends who had little brothers or little sisters it wasn't quite the same and we were really honest and open with him straight away we think Bucky is autistic this is what that means and at first he did struggle with it I think because he could see me upset at times um like I remember there was we were sat in the garden it wasn't this summer it was the summer before we were taking a picture me and my son like a selfie and Bucky came over and just full-on cracked Murphy in the face you know he whacked him and Murphy just cried his eyes out and he says I don't want to say this but I just wish Bucky didn't have autism and I was so upset you know I was so upset but I had to say to him well yeah sometimes I wish that as well you know it's it's normal to think that and it's normal to say that um but over the last year I mean he's always had a great bond with his brother and sister Ada my daughter she doesn't really overthink things she just accepts things um which I wish I was more like that don't you because she doesn't give things a second thought she's she in fact she made him at their school they have star of the week and she made him a star of the week and it was it was because he was having the autism and she spelled it o-r-t-i-s-m um you know she doesn't care she doesn't care whatsoever she just loves him for who he is and yeah Murphy the same their bond is amazing like I say he had this time when he hated school hate picking them up and he actually might have found the two of them together maybe a bit of a sensory overload very noisy now he can't wait to get them from school i say we're gonna go and get murphy and a day he's at the door he's getting his wellies on uh when he sees them he's flapping he's so happy to see them and he wants them to he wants them to play with him all day but on his terms you know um they got a marble run for christmas uh and like that's all they've done this weekend but bless murphy is they both are so patient with him so understanding of him but actually they're growing up to realize that people are different this is the thing you know growing up we're all going to encounter a lot of people that are different from us just accept them see see what's good in them and just enjoy their company you know just yeah they love him to bits

37:32Kerri Cunningham: what an incredible thing for them to learn at such a young age as well it is but i also think there's

37:38Helena O'Neill: um I saw a post actually going around the internet this weekend and it was saying it is a lot to learn at such a young age and I think sometimes I feel really guilty about the toll that they might have seen it take on me but right that's different though isn't it yeah yeah and that's

37:54Sarah Powell: that that's the sort of empathy side from your kids to that next level where they look at you as their absolute their their north star to see you distressed and oh come on you're the you're the mama bear so it's like I understand that totally but I guess like Georgia was saying you know to have that to have that understanding and kids are so much more resilient than we think they are you know we want to wrap them up and just protect them from everything that feels different but actually in reality it's so so important for them to be around around it and learn from it I

38:22Helena O'Neill: really yeah I couldn't agree more I just think it's you know he is like a gift to all of us actually I fully believe that and yeah he's just beautiful I mean they all are they all absolutely are for all their different um you know personality traits and everything about them but yeah he is just he is pure magic we'll be right back after this short break

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40:33Sarah Powell: Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? I'd love to get your feeling on the healthcare system and how that's been for you since the diagnosis, how they've looked after you, what they've kind of put in place in support for Bookie.

40:51Helena O'Neill: um okay well I'm gonna try and be um polite um well there isn't anything really that's the that's the truth so he got his diagnosis in March and it's weird because I think a lot of parents will agree you're sort of pinning your hopes on that because you think it will lead to help you know and it doesn't it's just a piece of paper that says you know he's autistic and and that was it for us I can only speak about our circumstance yeah there's not really been anything since then so that was March um 10 months yeah yeah so I mean that's it yeah there's there is nothing really that but again that's only my experience I don't know he goes to nursery and they've been absolutely incredible with him I think something that I've learned is you have to find the people who will sort of advocate for you and or advocate for your child and accept them and love them and don't pin your hopes on like a some sort of magic help you know coming in because for us yeah that's just not the case really and I actually think it's hard there probably are a lot of services out there and I can't necessarily talk about them myself but in terms of you know the NHS and them being forthcoming and potentially helping parents of diagnosed children yeah personally nothing for us what would be the idea yeah what would you what what would you want like someone to talk to yeah yeah yeah just someone to talk to somebody who has experience in children in working with children with autism or yeah that's what I think maybe there just needs to be that even you know an appointment six weeks later and say how are you doing how's he doing um you know obviously it comes down to money doesn't it in the NHS and yeah but I think it would be quite a simple thing really um but without you having to go out and find it because I can all again I can only speak for myself but I was so overwhelmed last year to the point of you know I felt like a different person I just felt totally on edge all of the time totally just stressed out just trying to cope with this thing that had happened to our family and not really knowing how to because I'd never been through it before and I think if it had just been somebody saying well how's he getting on how are you getting on yeah it would have helped it

43:15Sarah Powell: would definitely have helped I think that was my point surely there's got to be something there for families to support them you know a million percent there will yeah I think there will be

43:24Helena O'Neill: charities in there I mean there will be do you know what I mean it's but I mean I'm pretty bad for when I get quite overwhelmed I just go into like a I'll just shut myself off really yeah that's how I cope with things I'm like right just get on with it just get through the day and you know whereas loads of people would reach out and would find that help so I probably didn't do myself much

43:43Sarah Powell: help there but there we go you're talking about the nursery and how amazing they've been yeah to to really support Bookie and his superpowers just talk us through just talk us through you know what you've seen and what they've been doing yeah well it's funny isn't it because I don't know like well

44:00Helena O'Neill: until just before Christmas I didn't realize that Bucky had friends at nursery but I only found out because he was pointing at the little boy and like again the star of the week or whatever it was and he's saying his name and so when they opened the door I said oh does he know him she's like oh yeah I love him and he loves such a body and and I didn't even know that he was actually interacting with the other children because he loves our kids but he can kind of take everybody or leave them which I actually think is quite lucky in some respects.

44:24Sarah Powell: He's learned the lesson really early on.

44:26Helena O'Neill: Yeah, exactly. Wouldn't you love just to sort of ignore people when they don't appeal to you? But yeah, it'd be great, wouldn't it? But yeah, I think they've just really leaned into who he is. So, you know, for example, that coming home with the shark, the laminated shark picture, they've just really observed him and seen, okay, well, this makes him happy. This doesn't make him happy. And the look on his face when he goes in and when he comes out like he's just I can tell he's really proud of what he does there and the time that he spends there and the yeah they've just been brilliant for him really and I think we've been very lucky in that respect because I don't necessarily think that would be the situation because I do understand it's harder especially when you've got a load of other very small children you know they're only three and four um and he you know he likes to stim he likes to shout he likes to he likes his own way if I'm honest um so it must be really hard but yeah they've done brilliant things for him and I know we were talking about the gestalt weren't we the language um they seem to have a really great understanding of that uh yeah they've just been great they've been brilliant

45:28Kerri Cunningham: and what about the future in like with school and stuff like that will you will he go to the same

45:35Helena O'Neill: school as your older kids yeah I think he will now it's been a tricky decision uh to make which again would be a lot easier wouldn't it if there's somebody to sort of guide you with it and talk to you about it but there we go um I think he will go to their school for now and something that Bucky has taught me and it's gone against every single fiber of my being because I always need to know what is going to happen what's happening next week what's going on well and he's actually made it so that I can't really ever have that with him I just have to take each day um as it comes and find all the good things in it and cling to them and yeah so with school we're just going to go for it and just see how he gets on just gonna see how he manages um yeah and see what happens

46:23Kerri Cunningham: really what were your main concerns you know when you were sort of saying it was a difficult decision

46:30Helena O'Neill: um well to be brutally honest I don't think there's many places for children like Bucky and And, you know, you have to be really lucky to find that setting that is really, you know, like, for example, is nursery. And I wish you could stay there forever. Do you know what I mean? I wish you could do another two years there because you're so happy there. It's just really knowing. For us, it's really hard. When my eldest son went to school, I honestly, my heart broke. It genuinely did. I was just so upset, so emotional. And now I look back and I think, wow, you know, if only it was that easy now for Bucky.

47:02Helena O'Neill: it's just really not I think it's just knowing that he's going to be in a place that he's accepted for who he is that he's not going to be sort of stifled in terms of you know when he loves something he just shouts it just stems verbally which is fine you know it's absolutely fine but it's just not somebody sort of shushing him maybe or trying to sort of change who he is because he can't really do that he just is who he is he just needs to be nurtured and encouraged for the person that he is yeah I like I really hope and pray and believe that children are so loving and accepting

47:37Sarah Powell: when all those kids start school yes you know bookie maybe on paper looks slightly different with all his beautifulness but actually fundamentally they're just a bunch of kids going to school and there was a there was a boy with autism at my daughter's school and Luna would come home and just say he's just so funny mummy and he just needs cuddles from me and her teacher she was pulling me aside and saying that she'd been extra kind and that everybody got around him and I know that was just my experience I just I really hope that sort of gives you a bit of confidence because I saw it you know I saw it and he was just such a cool kid and everybody really

48:11Helena O'Neill: really got him yeah I agree entirely and actually kids don't care about conversation do they

48:16Kerri Cunningham: no they're all screaming and shouting yeah one of Axel's best mates is autistic and I didn't realize but I actually invited him to his first play date and they're in year five he'd never been invited to a play date before and the mum was like oh like thanks like you know he's not been invited around before but they they communicate and he actually he has got he has you know got really good speech now I don't know what it was like for him when he was younger I've got no idea but that yeah I don't know there's definitely there's definitely an understanding Axel knows that there's certain things he doesn't like there's certain things he does like and he pre-warned me like before he came around you know Nathan doesn't like this he does like that I was like oh yeah cool you know you don't and I think yeah it's just like any kid isn't it yeah

49:01Helena O'Neill: yeah and I do definitely think you know there's a lot more children that are being diagnosed I do think we are going to get to a point where you're going to see that ratio of children who are neurodiverse to children who are not you know it's going to get it we we have to accept that people are different to us don't we and we just have to yeah just get to know them just just be alongside them I think that's how it's going to be for our children and that makes me happy because it's great to accept people for who they are and yeah it's just yeah I think that's where we'll get to a point where it's not a huge deal to have children with autism in a mainstream school and

49:35Sarah Powell: yeah hopefully you only have to look at generations from the past to realize that when everybody is being um conditioned to come out in exactly the same way followed a to b to c it doesn't work like we're here to be different we're here to speak up we're here to you know love and to accept and great, let's go for it.

49:54Helena O'Neill: Yeah, precisely. Wise words, definitely.

49:57Sarah Powell: Oh, Kerry, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you so much. Before we say goodbye, we always like to ask our guests for their best piece of parenting advice that they can impart. Oh my goodness, I have none.

50:08Helena O'Neill: I have absolutely none.

50:09Sarah Powell: Come on, Kerry, you've got all these lovely quotes.

50:12Helena O'Neill: Honestly, my best piece of parenting advice would be, again, this is completely against me and everything I stand for. I'll go with something like my husband would say, and it was just just just let things be just go with how things are don't try to wish for things that aren't don't try to change things that are just I had spoke to a girl recently and she said to me you know you you are dealt a hand and you just go with it you've got to live the very best life that you can with that hand and I think it was just priceless advice it was yeah just make the best of every day even though it's hard even though sometimes it's a struggle just make the

50:47Sarah Powell: best of it and if there's yeah if you could if you could direct anybody to any amazing bits of you know information that you found online or things it's okay to talk about the podcast in

50:56Helena O'Neill: that way yeah yeah all right well I'll mention the one of the first episodes and I was talking to Harriet Brettel which is I don't know if you follow him but George Lewis's wife he's a comedian right um on Instagram he's quite big but she is absolutely amazing and clued up about all things to do with eHCPs so she came on and spoke about that process she actually works in education but she is a mom to um neurodivergent children and she honestly if you listen to that episode she had some amazing resources there and yeah she just talks with so much uh facts you know I'm talking from my heart but she is backing it up with you know evidence and facts and yeah she had some amazing resources that she can pinpoint you to so amazing and this is and and this is your new podcast yes what's it called just tell us yeah yeah right okay it's called a moment with murphy and it's um yeah basically we wanted to sort of reach out to parents across the uk and give them a space to talk about something that means something to them um so it could be anything could be their experience or it could be something that they're a bit of an expert in um we've had some really sort of emotional and incredible topics so far we've talked a bit about baby loss and EHCPs and neonatal um we've spoken to a midwife and yeah it's just to sort of give them a space where they can tell their story or they can talk a bit about something to raise awareness or even to sort of I don't know yeah get that story out in the open I know as a parent sometimes you just want to talk about something don't we that's happened to us yeah absolutely um but it's also hopefully to give parents a bit of a moment to themselves take 40 minutes sit back with a brew and yeah listen to somebody else's experience and their story so yeah sounds so exciting kerry thank you that sounds yeah really really good brilliant thanks for coming on thank you so much for coming on thank you so much for having me i've enjoyed it thank you and i hope quincy's okay he's gone to sleep now look with his legs in the air turning the whole thing set up off yeah oh it's lovely to speak to you though thank you thanks kerry oh take care thank you

53:00Kerri Cunningham: See you later. Bye. So interesting. Yeah. Really, really interesting. Do you know what I really loved as well? I think quite often, you know, people are scared to talk about the challenges that they have faced when raising a neurodivergent child. You know, they don't want to talk about the negatives and how much they've personally struggled because they don't think it's about them. Good point. But ultimately, it's human to find it really difficult to wish it wasn't happening. You know, all of those things that she did actually, she was honest about, you know, she said that, I said, you know, I said to my son, you know, of course I wish that too sometimes, you know, it's normal.

53:40Kerri Cunningham: And I think that's really helpful for people who are going through it because it's not all sunshine and roses. It's not all superpowers. That's not the reality for every day. It's difficult. Like it is difficult. And yes, there are positives and there are glimmers of hope, of course, but I'm sure anyone listening who is going through it, they want to hear that, you know, everyday life is not actually easy.

54:05Sarah Powell: No, and it's also her experience. It's what she's going through, her and her family. You've got to be honest and real around that. Otherwise, what we're left with. Like you said, you know, it's not sunshine and roses. It can be really, really, really difficult.

54:19Kerri Cunningham: Yeah.

54:19Sarah Powell: Yeah, really grateful for her honesty there. and I'm sure that, you know, if you are listening to this and you hadn't contacted and connected with Kerry before, I'm sure she'd love to hear from you. Thank you so much to Kerry for coming on the podcast. Thank you for Quincy for keeping really quiet during this recording. Look at him now, asleep with his legs in the air like that.

54:35Kerri Cunningham: He's so cute. He nearly ruined this whole episode.

54:38Sarah Powell: He nearly ruined the whole fucking studio, mate.

54:40Kerri Cunningham: He turned all the power off.

54:43Sarah Powell: He literally went over to the plugs and stood on the off switch.

54:47Kerri Cunningham: He turned it off. He's like, enough of this. And now he's asleep on his back, like nothing's happened.

54:53Sarah Powell: As always, we'd love you to rate, review, subscribe and please give our podcast a follow.

54:56Kerri Cunningham: Yeah, and if you've got any feedback on this episode or guests you'd like to hear from, drop us a DM on Instagram. We're on AppMadeByMummas and we'll be back on Friday.

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