Kimberley Walsh on Trying To Not Be A Pushy Parent

0:28Zoe and Georgia will be here in just a moment with Made by Mummers. know you're born on your podcast app and hit follow so new episodes land straight in your feed. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, We're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands.

1:04And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hello, hello. Hey, how are you? I'm great. I've got some very exciting news. Yeah? Go on. I cooked a bloody roast for 14 people yesterday. that is a big turn up i mean what what's happened sit down everyone sit down can you believe i did it i can't i mean chickens yeah loads of rice two chickens for 14 people what was it rations they were very well fed birds two extra large ones we actually had chicken left over did you oh my god each chicken fed eight people so in actual fact there was enough for 16 there was enough for 16 i did cheesy broccoli nice honey glazed carrots the best potatoes you've ever tasted i mean if bucky master chef don't get in touch with me now i would be absolutely fuming it was really fun oh good and now you're exhausted as you said before you were like oh That was a lot.

2:16Also, we did drink like eight bottles of wine, red wine, between sort of like six of us. So I just think by the end of it, I was like, oh my God, I'm really quite pissed. It's Sunday evening and I've got a whole week ahead of it. It's not the way to start your week, is it? Sunday drinking? No, no, no, no, it's not. It's okay if you've got a slow Monday, but if you haven't got a slow Monday, then no, no, no, it's really not. It's no good. No, it's not good. How are you? I'm really good. Yeah, we just had like a normal weekend, you know, just like we went to fireworks. because we um went to football we just mooched about just all the normal stuff really quite nice um yeah it was nice it really was we're um we're debating getting a dog i know you are this is so exciting yeah and so like what we keep doing is you know that thing of like okay so we're here now where would the dog be we're here now where would the dog be you know we just keep doing all of that So, I mean, right now it seems like a good idea, but I don't know.

3:15I'm not sure. I've got two weeks basically to decide. Well, essentially everywhere that you go, the dog comes. Yeah. So just obviously you can leave, you know, you can leave it at home for like two, three, four hours as they get older. But at the beginning, once they've had their jabs, they just kind of have to come with you because all you can, and you can pop them in their crate for a couple of hours. That's fine. They'll go to sleep. They need, they're supposed to sleep between 18 and 20 hours a day at the beginning. Wow. like a newborn so it's it's actually fine but you know what i think it is it's just the and i think um mom lifestyled was talking about this kate in p she was going the amount of crap that they bring into the house like the other day i just looked out and murphy was standing in the garden she'd managed to get like a drain pipe in her mouth and she was ramming it against the crittle doors and i was like oh my god where the fuck have you got that from so they just want to bring in stuff all the time they eat chew everything from the garden so you have to just basically get your head around the fact that you're going to be um hoovering and mopping every day now yeah yeah no i know yeah thanks for that i just like go between like is it necessary and is it or is it a really important part of childhood i don't know it's such a big question it is i know so if your kids are saying to you that it's going to ruin their childhood which is what mine was saying every day that's why i ended up caving but i'm so glad i did because it's the most unconditional beautiful for love and I can't imagine the family without it if your kids are not that bothered I wouldn't do it right okay yes you might not quite bothered at the moment which is annoying I read this article and this woman wrote in the Guardian at the weekend and she basically said we got a dog and it ruined my life and I my heart was just sinking they got Vizsla and I really do think it depends on the breed you you get because Vizslas they need you know they're like gundogs they need so much walking they can't be left alone they chew everything and so you just just think about the breed and that's really important yeah i mean i think we'll get another multi-poo which we've had before yeah um but obviously when we had rufus to begin with it was just the two of us and we could give it you know give him all the attention and now it's like cat like the kids say that they're gonna help but how much help do they actually give kit went to me i came down the other the morning and kit went there's a present for you in the kitchen and i was like what is it and he goes a turd oh no see oh i was like oh great didn't fancy clearing that up no just left that for me a real stinker um but listen george do it i would i think anybody listening to this podcast that's got dogs will also say do it yeah i know i didn't grow up with dogs or pets at all and i then really feel like I missed out so I yeah I think I probably am gonna have to do it so watch this space two weeks time I'll make my decision oh bless you we can't wait now we need to get into today's conversation because um annoyingly I wasn't there you wasn't there um I know we missed you we've had we had this guest on the podcast I think we worked out it was something like seven years ago.

6:22Wow. I know. And she has since gone on to have another baby and do lots and lots of stuff. But it was really nice to catch up with her and talk about managing three children and how she feels about her kids growing up and how, I guess, protective she is and that balance between wanting to give them a bit of independence but also wanting to wrap them up in cotton wool. It was a really nice chat. And like she basically talks like we do, as in is, you know, is chill to a certain level and then isn't. Did she talk about going back out on tour? No, we didn't. Do you know what? We barely spoke about work at all.

7:06We were very much, she's at the stage where her eldest is about to go to secondary school next year. and yeah, she's sort of saying how much he really wants the independence and how she's just not ready to give it to him yet. I know, yeah, it was good. I can't wait to have a listen. Who are we talking to today, George? We are chatting to Kimberly Walsh. Welcome back to the podcast. Thank you. On my own this time. I know, give my love to her next time. Yeah, exactly. I'm sure she sends her love. How are you? Because last time you came on the pod, you had two boys and now you have three. I do have three.

7:43How old were they, do you know? Were they toddlers? They were. It was a long time ago, wasn't it? It was. I think it was our very first series, which probably would have been eight years ago. Yeah. Maybe something like that. I think it was fully like sleep deprivation, breastfeeding, toddler tantrums. Yeah. Well, I've had another. I've got three, but I'm sort of out of that loop. Yeah. Which I guess feels like a bit of a milestone in a way. Yeah, I feel like when you get them all to school, although, right, you think that, don't you? You sort of aim to that stage, right? When they're all at school, it's all going to be okay.

8:18And then it's like... The next stage, yeah. For me, I was like, not wishing anything away, but really looking forward to having them all in one place. So now they're all in primary school together, just for one year. And I thought I'd be so emotional about my last one starting school, which I was to a point. but actually I feel way more emotional about my oldest one leaving there than what I do about him starting so it sort of shifted and I I felt like really weird I'm like why do I feel really sad that this is his last year more so than feeling sad about him starting the first year I did a whole different change isn't it it is and we were just talking about this before I think this the transition going from primary school to secondary school feels such a jump and almost like so important as well such an important decision and so different depending on what your child's like it's a massive responsibility I feel like with primary I was like as long as they're happy and they've got nice friends and you know it's a lovely little school that they go to then that's good with me I'm not a very pushy mum at all so I'm like just have fun guys enjoy but now I'm like oh secondary is a whole different ball game and I don't want to lose my Bobby as he is now and I just know that the minute they start secondary they just sort of grow up overnight I know I know how like how are you kind of working out that transition now are you talking about it together like we have seen so many schools we've been to so many at this point we're both a bit like oh not no no one school actually seems to fit every sort of need as well like there's always a sacrifice I think wherever you go and Bobby is way more creative than he is academic and I think that makes it quite challenging when you're choosing a school because a lot of schools are just results, results, results, you know, for English, math, science or whatever.

10:28And I just don't want him not to be celebrated in all the things that he's really amazed in art, you know, art, sport, design, all of that stuff. So that's been a big consideration for me. And it's because of it being Bobby, you know, my middle boy, Cole, he is quite academic. He likes to tick those boxes and he likes to win the spelling tests. And he like, you know, and that's just how he is. like it's really interesting actually seeing how different they just are and now my youngest Nate just started school and I'm like oh what are you going to be like yeah I still don't really know at this point obviously because that's the thing by 11 they've got their sort of personality and their way of like being I guess and then it's how you like nurture it totally yeah I think that's our biggest job at this age isn't it to make sure that we put them in a in a environment where they can be nurtured in the stuff that they're good at yeah um and he's quite an old 11 year old like mentally I think he's actually so ready for the the change like he's you know very confident and looking forward to being around like older kids and stuff but I'm just not ready I would happily let them just all stay there for another eight years where I know where you are a small little village school one form entry yeah but no you you mentioned you're not a pushy parent at all and like Zoe and I talk about this on the podcast all the time because I think in us we want to be really soft and like you know oh you know don't worry about it don't worry about it but we've got husbands who are really pushy and so we're like at that clash stage of like well we don't really know what the right thing is but you you said both of you are super relaxed yeah but I think a lot of it's maybe led through Bobby and seeing that okay some kids don't actually love school life as much as others so he's been amazing and he's got on with it but actually I think if he could choose he wouldn't be at school he'd be working already you know he'd be in a job and he's just not got the the nature really for that environment and I feel for kids like that there's so many kids like that that just don't feel that comfortable in a school environment so I think that kind of changed our perspective on on school life anyway but I'm not pushing anything although my uh my Middleson Cole he plays for a football team now and I've started to take that quite seriously I did not see that one coming I've never liked football I've always been like I hate the noise of it I don't even like it being on in the background and now I'm voluntarily there on the sideline like shouting out every week he's like mom you're so embarrassing but it's that's coming from a place of pride not from like oh I want you to do trials I'm like I'm not trying to push him in that respect but when you see your child do really well at something that they're good at I don't know it just gets me a bit excited you get like that surprised me so you're the mum shouting on the sidelines positive shouting let's not get it twisted I do definitely only positive stuff but it just it's like an out-of-body experience and some of the football mums that just can't get over it they're like I never thought that you would be like this and I'm like I just I don't know it just comes over me but no in terms of like pushing them in general I just think we need to make them really good people make sure they know all of the important stuff respect confidence and then hopefully the rest comes my mom wasn't pushy I was gonna ask that and I pushed myself and it's always been the way so she never really put any pressure on me was never like I was at stage school from five but I didn't have a stage school mum you know it wasn't like that at all but I've always pushed myself and I always judge myself and be like oh I could have done a bit better on that but it's never come from my parents yeah that's where I'm coming from yeah do you think it's just in you that you've got that or you or you haven't like because I'm not competitive at all but I you know like my son's competitive well I've not put that you know that's not me because I'm not competitive I think it is in them a little bit don't you just see traits of yourselves in them both don't you like I'm like oh you're so stubborn that's just like your dad or you're so like me in that way you know like there's all these things that they come to fruition as they get older you're like oh no I can totally see myself and then sometimes Bobby's like in his own little world and my husband's like I just don't get how he just lives in like Bobby world and I'm like I do I think I was I was definitely singing in my head a lot at his age just like just get me through this so that I can go and sing somewhere and how do you feel about letting them have more independence this is a big thing in our house at the moment because Bobby is an old 11 year old so he's like he's born on the 4th of September so he very nearly went to secondary this time and he's he is kind of ready so he's really desperate for just a bit of independence whatever we can give him and I'm quite as much as I'm I'm not a pushy mom but I am a protective mom and that's just coming from fear because I love them so much that I'm like I just don't want to put you in an unsafe environment I can't choose to put you somewhere that I don't think is safe so like where I grew up basically coming home when the the the lights went out on the street it's not like that anymore and he's like I'm so jealous you could do that you could hang around the woods come back on your bike at nine o 'clock I'm like no it was like it was a different time but there's no way I can give him that freedom so I'm trying to find ways of incorporating little bits of independence here and there but I'm not finding it easy no I'm do you know I'm exactly the same we actually left our son he's nine on his own for the first time yesterday okay for 20 minutes yeah and he's been asking for ages was he really excited about it it was a bit of a whim type of thing it was just like just happened from circumstance been asking loads like when I drop my daughter like to gymnastics literally it's up the road he's always like just leave me here just leave me here and I'm like no I don't think it's right to leave you when it's dark.

17:01You haven't got a phone. You can't phone me. And yesterday, it was just like my son and me and my husband. And I needed to go and pick my car up because we've been at a party the night before. And he was like, oh, I just want to go home. I don't want to. And so my husband was like, all right, we'll drop you home then. And I was, oh, my God, no, no, no, no. I can't have this. I can't have this. And then I thought, no, do you know what? This is a good time. We're 15 minutes. he's on his own my daughter's not there going I want to be left as well you know worse if they're together I guess and we left him with my husband's phone and I'm not like if I show you he voice noted me every minute I wasn't there no way every single minute didn't love it no no and then I had to facetime him when I got to the car like to make sure he was all right he'd taken all his clothes off and he was laying on the sofa he was like can I play my playstation now and I was like yes you can okay I'm just making myself a glass of water so you turned out that you're like this wasn't worth it no no no this was not independence this was like the opposite but yeah I feel like it's those small things there's no rules is there this is what's quite tricky because I have the exact same thing with like taking my son that plays football take where there's a lot of dragging the other two around to drop him and loads of Saturdays Bobby's like just leave me like you're 10 minutes away I'm just gonna be here like chilling and I haven't I haven't done it yet and I know like he's 11 now so maybe it'll come at some point but he would be fine he would be absolutely fine but I just don't think I'm ready I wouldn't leave them together though because I'd more worried about them fighting exactly you know yeah that's the difference isn't it and obviously I can't leave the the little one but he would be so excited if I did that and he wouldn't be texting me he'd be like okay we're in business I can play on my playstations the entire time until she comes home um but worries me a little bit because he's quite um confident with like cooking and stuff now and I've allowed him to do that when I'm there and as much as I'd obviously say no cooking no this no that I just don't know if I can quite trust Bobby if it was Cole I know he'd be like yes mum I will wait until you get back but with Bobby I think you might just push the boundaries of it and make a bit of egg on toast yeah well that's what I said yesterday like in the three minutes I had to get my head around it I was like don't cook don't have a bath don't eat anything don't eat just sit on the sofa by the phone okay and he was like yeah and I was like and if anything happens I was like look next door and I was like next door or home you run across there if there's a fire I mean I know all the things that you go through I know and I wonder like when did we get left I don't even know there was four of us so we sort of brought each other up I'm sure we must have been left here and there but yeah yeah well that's what I was trying to work out because I'm an only child so I was left on my own whereas my husband's one of four and he was he's like I can't remember when I was left on something because you had your sisters around yeah so for an oldest child that has to happen first doesn't it like you have to like almost leave I don't know I don't know some friends who leave their oldest for you know an hour or so while they go like drop someone off and I don't think it is personal choice there's no right or wrong is there but I'm a little bit of a worrier so I don't know yeah poor pop he's not getting any independence anytime soon and what about like phones and this sort of thing because this is again another big topic I can't bear it he doesn't have a phone yet um when he goes to secondary that's going to be obviously something that we're probably going to have to do obviously he goes on you know on YouTube and stuff like as they all do on the iPad and stuff um they just get addicted to gadgets so that's what I'm dreading I mean I'm the same we're adults and we do it like we don't have the self-control how can we expect them to have it this is a whole new world that I am absolutely dreading becoming part of because all I think of is how much nicer my life was at that age not having one how much freer uh if I'm totally honest I wish that the whole thing would just implode on itself and we could just go a little bit back to basics where we just communicate with each other speak to each other and just not be online so much but that's just not the world that we're in no and is it a conversation among like school parents yeah it's a big deal like everyone's talking about what secondary schools what their policy is you know most of them now are a no phone policy yeah some like take them and they put them in like pouches some you just allowed like the old brick phones which are not good for much to be honest but that's the issue you can't message like you've got to ring on some of them so they're not that practical if your kids travel into school alone which you know bobby probably will be doing at some you know at some point then you do kind of want them to have a phone and a tracker and a tracker oh definitely a tracker trackers will be going in everything yeah I think yeah I know I think about that like I did have a phone when I went to secondary school but it would have been a brick phone and so much younger than me it was probably like my dad's or something and I remember like I would message and be like I'd say where I was and I definitely wasn't where I said I was yeah but of course there was no there was no way for them to know that whereas now oh we can see where they are we can see what speed the cars driving out that they're in I was at like a golf Halloween night thing the other night because my oldest plays golf and um loads of them had their teenage daughters there like just with their sons and they'd gone off on the golf course because it was this whole Halloween thing and all of the moms were like she's in the sandpit she's probably doing a tiktok on the the fourth hole or whatever and I was like oh my god you're literally tracking every move they make and they're like oh yeah there's no way we'd ever take this off like we need to know where they are i mean i half feel sorry for them yeah they're not gonna get that but also they don't really know they don't really get the dangers not really like so without fully scaremongering them i think this is probably the safest way of keeping them safe is just to know where they are yeah no i mean mine didn't know where I was most of the time I actually probably was where I said but they had no idea like and they'd be like yeah just walk home you're like really really it's quite a long way yeah yeah just walk home whereas I'll be like I'll pick you up stay where you are and they'll be at the club I'll pick you up stay where you are see I had a friend's mum who was the one that would pick us up and my parents were the ones who were like get a taxi yeah and then I think about all of like they weren't even taxis they were just random people outside a club and you'd be like oh how much to hear, scary we didn't even check if they said they would take us home we'd be like great this is a win let's get in the car getting home for 20 quid yeah I know it is really scary I mean that's where it's quite good that there's like all the different car apps like Uber and all of those because you can give them the access to that and be like please just use this get home safe well now even if i get in the car i'm like share location share location yeah you just can't you can't be too careful no we'll be right back after this short break welcome back to this episode of made by mamas now where were we and what how is life with three boys because yeah i think there's a lot of like stereotypical ideas of what it what it's like with with three boys but in reality they're all so different I feel like they have some kind of generic you know features that boys have they do move around a lot they they have a lot of energy in certain times but they also really do have like their quiet times and they're very like um they're very open they do talk a lot like which I really love and you can have like real engaged conversations with them they're quite empathetic which I I like because some of my friends with boys are like oh you can't get anything out of them you know they're just running wild jumping off the curtains I'm like no mine are not like that all the time actually they have their moments but not all the time when do you get those moments are there things that you're doing that help them open up yeah so I think for me obviously they play a lot of sport they do play computer games but they're very creative so for us like art drawing painting Bobby does a lot of like modeling and making stuff and those are the things where I get the stillness in my house so sometimes I literally go and just get the big thing of pens out put the stuff out and it's funny how they will all flock to it if it's there they all really do enjoy it and then I can kind of engage with them a little bit more yeah and sit down when it's quiet but actually so you're working with McDonald's at the moment which is actually such a cool concept yeah do you want to tell us yeah no I'll explain so they've partnered with children in need this year which is lovely and they've got this campaign you can see the limited edition happy meal box there so instead of the usual red that we're all used to it's it's blank a blank canvas comes with crayons And it's just an initiative to try and get kids to open up a little bit more, whether that's through drawing, you know, to spark, you know, the conversation.

27:03And I do feel like with my kids, that really works. Yeah, it does. Like even with my four year old, like he's not going to have any in-depth conversations about how he's feeling, but he'll draw certain things that kind of make me know, oh, he missed us a little bit today because he'll have a picture of him and his brothers or, you know, whatever it is. And then you start discussing that. And with the older ones, I just think they're distracted. So you can get more out of them. Like if I say to them on the way home from school, how was it? I just get grunts. Like they actually look at me like I'm just so annoying for even asking that question.

27:39They're like, where's my snack? Don't want to talk to you now. But if I do it when they're in the middle of doing something creative, I engage so much more. Yeah, it's almost that time with no distraction, isn't it? And they're not aware that you're trying to get anything out of them. Yeah. But they're concentrating on what they're drawing, so they just speak more freely. And I think as a parent, and you probably feel the same, the one thing that I want is to know what's going on in my child's head. That's more scary to me than anything else. Like I want to know that you are okay, that you're happy, that you will tell me if anything's worrying you, bothering you, however old or young you are and so far I feel like they're all pretty good at opening up my my middle boy Cole is the one that I have to try the hardest with and I don't know if that's I think that's just his character yeah it's more like what we probably say typical men are like where he'll just like not talk about not talk about and then maybe explode so I need to be on it a bit more with him but that's where you just have to find these creative ways to get them to open up and you know for him football's great for him as well like my oldest is very much artistic and that's his happy place and his is sport and you just find what's right for your kids don't you how do you find managing like one-to-one time with each of them individually it's really hard actually isn't it like especially with three because people are you gonna have any more and I'm like I just I personally don't think I could give them all what they want they all crave your time so much and now they get into an age where they'll be like can we do something together and you're like yeah I would absolutely love to do that but it's usually me and the little one or you know Bobby and the littlest or Colin the littlest it's hot it's rare that we can just take one you know or I'll do something with the big boys and my husband will have Nate um but we both said because I think they both crave it from both of us yeah and Nate's not he he gets most time from both of us because he's a baby.

29:46But the older two definitely want that time. So we're going to try and see if we can, you know, plan a few days like that. Because I think if I had like the whole day or the whole afternoon to do something with one of them, it would just be so lovely to have that one-on-one time. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah, no, it is. I think it's really difficult. And I find, I don't know if you do this, but we almost like divide and conquer. So like, I always find it's me who takes my daughter to ballet and tap and gymnastics and actually that is like the best one because you drop off for two and a half hours and you go off on your own what do you do because like anything i don't have that because mine are still like stick around and watch which you know i'm into the football oh yeah you're a football mom now bobby i can drop at golf soon i think he's getting to that age now yeah and what about having a third how did you parent have you like sort of parented in any different way have you enjoyed it anymore any less yeah I think that I left a bit of a bigger gap between two and three I found jumping from one to two with the two-year gap was actually really hard yeah much harder than I was imagining um so then I was like oh maybe we'll wait a little bit longer before number three but I always knew that I wanted more than two so then I think it got to the point where I was like okay I need to definitely need to do it now before you know it's too late sort of thing and then because I knew I wasn't gonna have any more I just knew I just knew that I was kind of happy with the three once I'd had Nate I really enjoyed even the really hard stuff whereas with your second you're like weaning again or burping again I'm crawling oh no everything's just like too much and then with Nate I was like oh it won't last very long and I was actually like more engaged with all of that stuff and more patient I think with it all and the boys enjoyed watching all those stages there's so many like firsts isn't there with the the baby stage and they loved it so yeah it was interesting I think I just embraced it all because I knew it was the last and I do love having kids I could have happily carried on but you get to that point where I'm I'm like, I'm stretched with the three.

31:58Yeah. I'm getting older. And now I'm like, oh, it'll be really nice when we can all just do something together, which we're nearly there now. Nate's like four and a half and he's going on 15. So we're nearly there where we can all just go and do stuff together. Do you think he's growing up quicker with the older boys? Yeah. He's so old for his age. My friends are like, I just cannot believe the vocabulary that this child comes out with. like some of my friends English is not their first language at his school and they're like I need to hang around with Nate he's giving me so he's giving me loads of words and I'm like it must just be that they're like sponges to yeah what they're hearing with their brothers but he does crack me up yeah at the moment he's hilarious oh god see I always have it now where when my son started school he's like the oldest like goody two-shoes you know like oh and then I've got the daughter with the older brother and that's what all the parents like oh yeah but she's got an older brother you know what does that make well i think it i don't know i think she shares the bad words and you know all of that stuff yeah yeah i'm like oh god that's my one that's my one i mean my nursery teacher did say keeps saying what the yeah yeah not the rest of it because i think there's some videos that the older ones watch and i was like oh gosh she was never going to say the next word but I get it yeah let's let's knock that on the head I'm like no no there was no other word to come but still I'll deal with it yeah third child syndrome and all but um yeah he is growing up really quickly and I'm struggling a bit knowing that that like baby stage is going because at the moment he's just like full-on hilarious still really cute coming out of stuff that's way too old for him really loving it's nice I just enjoy every stage in a different way but yeah and then now it's on to the next stage that I'm not really ready for and I'll be listening to more of these podcasts trying to get some some knowledge and guidance as to what do we do when they go to secondary oh don't yeah gosh watch your space that's like our next bit yeah but thank you it's been really nice to catch up and it's we've come a long way since that first chat we have and before you would have given your best piece of advice so I wonder what it is now your best piece of advice you've ever been given or just a bit of advice you'd give you know to another parent do you know what I feel like it's really hard to give words of wisdom because I don't see myself as you know a parenting guru in any shape or form but um I parent I think the way my mom parents which is with like so much love so that you know you've got them and they trust you and that you you know you can share those feelings with each other and support and guidance and I don't put any pressure on my kids personally but that's just the way I am I hope that they still blossom and bloom at some point thank you thank you oh she's such a babe isn't she yeah she is and i'm laughing every sunday when i'm on the sidelines being quiet oh my god are you quiet i went to watch luna playing hockey on sunday i managed to get there for the last 20 minutes of her game and i could not control myself i was like go on luna i was like get stuck in support the girls come and this guy next to me was like oh did you used to play and i was like oh yeah you know just like a little bit I'm really sorry it was so embarrassing she kept looking at me shaking her head so I thought I thought it was really interesting when Kim said like you know she's not a pushy parent she had a pushy parent but then when she goes and watches you know her son play football she just can't keep her mouth shut yeah yeah yeah it's funny how things can just sort of like take over um but yeah it's really interesting the whole pushy parent debate and actually in a few weeks time we've got um another guest on who we talk about a lot about that with so it's a good I think it's an interesting one to explore a bit further um so yeah watch this space oh well many many thank yous to kimberly um for coming back on the podcast again and thank you to you guys for listening as always we'd love you to rate review subscribe and please give our podcast a follow yeah and if you've got any feedback on this episode or guests you'd like to hear from drop us a dm on instagram we're on at made by mamas and we'll be back on friday