Lauren Adamson on How Starting A Podcast Helped Her Through Life's Challenges

0:00Hello and welcome to Made by Mum as the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman and I'm Georgia Dayton and this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits with five kids between G and I we have seen a lot we really have each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way in short we're the parenting podcast for you before we get started hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands and they're on Tuesdays and Fridays and it really helps if you leave a rating and a review You can also find us on Instagram.

0:34We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Joining us on the podcast today, co-host of Nip Tuck podcast, part of a beautiful blended family. On her podcast, she's known for talking about sex, relationships, kids and loads of other very ridiculously funny stories. It's Lauren Adamson. Hello, guys. Thanks for having me. So we always ask our guests how your morning has been. But you've been on a long journey. There hasn't been a morning. There was no end, actually, between night and morning. We were just saying my six-month-old, honestly, I've seen every hour. He was up all night.

1:10So I feel like there hasn't been a night and morning. It's just carried on. I'd say it's been like that. Still Sunday. For weeks, yeah. I mean, I don't even know what day it is anymore. But I got here. Yeah, well done. And I'm alive. It's hard, isn't it? Six months. Yes. Do you know, six months, I feel like it's quite a difficult time because you're given a lot of grace at the beginning. You've got a newborn. She's got a newborn. and people, you say, I've got a newborn, and they go, oh my God, you're doing so well. And then they get to a certain age and nobody cares anymore. It's just like, oh, she's got a baby.

1:39But you're still up all night a lot of the time. And then in fact, you've been up all night by this point for six months. So this is what we say. This is the cumulative tiredness that no one really talks about. It just doesn't stop. So by six months, people, not everyone, I think other mums get it, but I think a lot of people expect you to be back at work, starting to look and feel like yourself again. You're expected to do that, but actually you've not slept for six months by this point. Not two. Yeah. And I think people do forget that. And I found that it got to six months and I thought, oh, and also he's starting to sit up, move, but he can't move properly.

2:15So you're kind of in that limbo where they're not a baby and they're not a toddler. It's the frustration. The frustration. Isn't it? Yeah. He's a very angry boy. Yeah. He makes very angry noises all night. So yeah. Do you know what? I'm all right. You don't look tired. Thank you. Well, I forgot my bloody foundation. So I've got a face full of concealer, so I really shouldn't look tired. I've had to do my entire face on the train with concealer. It's very thick. So I should look very, very wide awake indeed. There's so much that we want to talk to you about today, but I guess for people that might not know you, just give us a little background as to how you came to do your podcast and a bit about you.

2:51Yes, absolutely. So I, as we said, co-host of a podcast called Nip Talk. we started about four years ago and we actually started it weirdly I don't know if you've heard of a website called tattle yeah yeah so oh I only had about 10 000 followers I wasn't an influencer wasn't making money from it and for some reason I ended up on there and I think it was when I was married I had a baby and it broke down really early on I think people almost enjoyed that oh what happened there then because they seemed really happy so I ended up on there and some idiot DM'd me and said, did you know you're on this website?

3:25So I went and had a look and it was, oh my God, horrific. Turns out one of my friends who I've worked with in the past and we've been friends for about 15 years was also on it. So it was her really. I'm not a podcast girly. I have to be honest. I don't even listen to my own. I listen when I can, but I don't feel like I've got a lot of time. I'm a bit of a psychopath. I actually sit in silence in the car. Yeah, silence. And that's how complex. I need time to. Yeah. So overstimulating. And she said to me, we need to say something back to this. You know, they're saying this about us, that about us.

3:56That didn't happen. What sort of things were they saying at this point? Oh, God. They said that I must be a drug dealer, a prostitute, which fine. I mean, I'd have more money if I was, but I'm not. A lot of it was about our parenting. Right. So it was kind of, I don't think she strapped Thea in the car seat properly there. What a terrible mother. She never seems to be with a child, which whether I was or not doesn't matter, but I was every second. What went on with the husband? I heard this. It was honestly really bad. And there were actually people commenting on there that said, I knew Lauren at school.

4:33I knew her mum. This, that, the other. Just really private things from when I was younger. It was awful. It was really bad. So Ashley said to me, right, we need to do something. have you heard of podcasts? I was like, no, we're going to record one. So we did one and it was initially supposed to be just kind of saying, I'm not a drug dealer, I'm not. And we ended up having a real laugh on it and having a really good chat. And that episode went into the top 10, I think it was number two in the UK charts. And we were like, oh shit, right. We'll do another, we'll do another. And then it just carried on.

5:08And then we ended up with a community of women who were like us. and I didn't realize there were that many out there that are mums, but are also allowed to talk about sex. That's fine. We're allowed to say, my child has driven me mad today. And we kind of realized how many people out there wanted that fun, unfiltered, just genuine embarrassing stories. It's just grown from there. Wow. I was so excited. And like you say that you were being trolled when you hadn't even really put yourself out there. You didn't have a huge following. I didn't make a penny from Instagram. I wasn't an influencer. I wasn't a celebrity.

5:39I haven't been on a reality show. For some reason, I mean there are celebrities that get it much much worse but there was enough people for me to read that and think oh my god when I went to the supermarket I'd be looking around thinking is it you is it you and it was just awful but doing the pod kind of gave us our voice back and now I've not looked at it for about two years I can't I just can't look at it because I've never looked at it I think it's been taken down has it or not there's rumors of it but I I can't even Google. I can't even look because it just gives me that bad anxiety. I'd rather not know.

6:12If they think that about me, then that's up to them. It's really difficult to process when out of nowhere, a group of people are essentially just tearing you down. It's like a witch hunt. And it's like crowd mentality, isn't it? And then they all start. And they'd take, you know, there might be a picture of me or a video and they'd screenshot it and zoom in and say, have you seen her? I don't know under eyes have you seen a I can't think what yeah it was bad it was really bad but like I say I don't go on it now and if it wasn't for those people I wouldn't be doing what I do now yeah I'm a podcast host full-time that's my job so thank you yeah that's amazing exactly great thanks very much and it's always like school school playground it takes you back to that like but just on a platform the worrying thing is I would say 90 was women I know and that's what killed me and mothers yeah it's bloody hard guys do we need to do that to each other but they're clearly unhappy and people project you know their insecurities and unhappiness on other people and I'm so fine with it now but at the time yeah it was tough so that's how we kind of started the whole pod wow what was it like because you you obviously you know you just mentioned it then about that you know the breakdown of your relationship when your little one was so young How old was she?

7:27So she was only eight weeks old. And the hard thing about that kind of chat is, and I have spoken about it on the podcast and it is part of my story. And I know a lot of people that follow me now followed me back then and got strength from it if they went through the same thing. But I also have to be so careful because at the end of the day, that is a father. Yeah, that is still a father. You know, we have an okay relationship. So I don't like to go over it. But at the same time, it did happen. She was eight weeks old. We were married. he I don't know what I wouldn't like to guess why but he just decided that that was that when she was eight weeks old and he literally left so I then all of a sudden ended up with an eight week old you know and your hormones are all over as it is you don't feel great in yourself sometimes you image all that kind of thing and there I was with a baby thinking it was like having the rug pulled from under my feet.

8:22It was probably the worst thing that's ever happened to me in my entire life. I thought, I don't know what I'm going to do here. I don't know what I'm going to do. And were there any sort of signs leading up to it? So when Thea was born, there was a lack of interest. And the thing you find with some men, I think becoming a father can do two things to men. It can be the making of them or it can be the breaking of them. And women maybe too. I'm just saying men in this occasion, they either cannot cope with the responsibility and any cracks that you may have had begin to really show. Because all of a sudden you can't look after that person like you perhaps have been doing.

9:02You can't compensate like perhaps you were. Because this baby comes along and you don't care about them anymore. Because this baby is your whole world. So no, I can't make you your lunchbox. No, I can't do all these things because I don't really care now I've got this baby. And they will either think, you know that woman is doing so much for me I must support her or they'll think oh what am I going to do now this is boring what about me and they go both they can go two ways and I think it went that way so perhaps there was signs when she was born but I didn't have a clue that it was going to be a full-on how did you mentally cope with that it was awful when I say it was bad like I can't even describe how bad it was.

9:45I was absolutely heartbroken. My mum, when she found out, rang me, said, I'm going to come and get you. I'm coming round. The baby's in bed. And I was like, no, no, no, I'm fine, I'm fine. And then I found myself, I'll never forget, I was literally sat on the bathroom floor with my head in my hands, like rocking. And I'm thinking, what am I going to do? What the fuck am I going to do now? What's going through your head then? I'm thinking, this sounds awful, but I'm sure people understand. I didn't have a baby for this. If you'd have said, I felt like I'd been duped. I wouldn't have had a baby and thank God I did, but I wouldn't have had a baby if I'd have known that I was not going to be with the father.

10:25I wouldn't have had it. So I felt tricked. I thought you've made me, you didn't make me, but you've got me, we've had this baby that we both wanted and now you've decided it's not for you and you're going to go away and I can't go away. I'm a mum. I can't run away. I can't go and get pissed. I can't think, do you know what? I need a break as well. I'm stuck with a baby that needs me and I don't even want to wake up and I've got a baby. So it was kind of, it was awful. I moved in with my mum for three months. I smoked about a hundred fags a day. Love that for you, Lauren. Love that for me. Love that for you.

11:03And I just wallowed for a very, very long time. um I remember we went on a holiday me and my mum was like right we'll go in on holiday sod this and I think she was about 12 weeks by this point and I remember being in you know those coaches which I don't get anymore you know the coaches that take you to the the airport I remember being sat in the back and I was looking around I saw all these families the mum the dad the baby and I was sat there just looking at my baby thinking how has this happened this is not what the plan was so any communication with him at this point now we don't really speak very much I speak to his mum and dad but at the time but at the time oh I would have got back with him in a heartbeat yeah oh I was genuine I mean thank god I didn't but I would have been I would have jumped because I was just so devastated and I didn't understand how you to me it was meant to be a family and that's it it was meant to be mum dad baby that's how it goes now I know now that that's not always how it goes and it's absolutely fine but for that period it just felt like I'd been put into a life that I didn't choose.

12:08Yeah. Did you feel like there was sort of judgment about being a single mum and around being a single mum? Because I think even though it is so normal, like it happens, I mean, is it like 40 % of marriages end in divorce? Like it is so normal, but we still haven't like, I don't know what it is. I think I've seen the playground, like mums who are on their own and you don't find out they're on their own until you have a, like a coffee of them, like six months into it. And they go, oh, you know, I'm on my own, but I didn't want to say. And it's like, what? That's so weird, isn't it? It's society, isn't it?

12:41And it's almost, it kind of, it goes right back to the days where you should be married with a baby. And that's what it comes back to. But I have found that, you know, since being a single mom, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. The best thing, I mean, ever. I got such a good bond with her, you know, and I think if you can get through that oh I'm not scared of anything do what you throw what you want at me because I'm literally if I can raise a baby pretty much by myself bring you come at me there's nothing else that's harder than that really so it makes you strong and and those low points because actually after the lows came a really beautiful new journey for you and an amazing person entered your life so I want to talk about that but those low points did was there a moment that you thought I can't I can't get through this.

13:31Every day. Yeah, every day. Yeah. I used to go to bed and think, I used to look, my mum always said that my mood would shift at about seven o 'clock and I'd get in a happier mood because I was going to bed. Right. So I was asleep and the pain would be gone for 10 hours. Genuinely, she said you'd get happier in the afternoon because I'd think it's bedtime soon. I can not feel this pain for 12 hours. And then I would wake up in the morning and I'd open my eyes and I'd think, here we go. Here we go again. Here we go. And my mum always said to me, day by day. And if you can't do day by day, you do hour by hour.

14:07And that's kind of how I worked for a while. It was get yourself to lunchtime. Get yourself to lunchtime. So I'd get to lunchtime. Get yourself to the evening. And it went like that. And there were some times that, you know, it's not just, you know, you don't just get better and better every day. You get lower some days and higher. But on the whole, as time went by, things did get better. I did feel better. I did find myself again because I think a lot of it wasn't just the fact that I ended up single when you have a baby sometimes you lose your identity a little bit and not only had I lost that I'd also lost the identity from before because I wasn't married anymore so I didn't really know who I was as a person and who I was as a mum now yeah so that took time as well but it did come back and that's one thing my outlook on life is always even when it feels like the worst time it never is you just have to trust whatever you believe in the universe god whatever it is you trust that there is a path that is right for you and that is what you were meant to be on you might not understand why and in that moment you might think well how can this be what was meant for me but you will get it and now i'm like thank god that happened because this is where i was meant to be i think if you keep that in your mind nothing is that scary i love that yeah it's true and at what point did you start to like was there a switch where you started to get yourself better or like you it literally just went up and down I honestly think it took me about two years and I had relationships in between yeah but it was still there it was still the the trauma of that and I think it also gave me you know I've just had a baby and I know that my husband is fantastic I I know he's not going to leave me, but it certainly triggered again.

15:51Just before I had Tommy, I didn't think, oh, he's going to leave me, but I had this anxiety of, right, we're having another baby. This time it's going to be different. But if afterwards anything happened, like, you know, a minor argument, not even an argument, a little tiff, I'd think, oh, God, this, oh, God, I'm going to be on my own again. Even if it was nothing like that, you know, I need a shower. Well, you've had a shower, you know, that kind of thing, it would lead me back. So I think there is certainly some trauma there. Yeah, of course. Absolutely. Yeah, of course. But it's what you do with that, isn't it?

16:21Yeah. We'll be right back after this short break. Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? So, I mean, the beautiful, amazing sort of happy ending to this is that you did find love again. Yes. And let's talk about that because that has led you to have this incredible blended family where there's loads of you. So talk us through that. So I had other relationships. Again, idiots, to be honest. My fault. because you know what I think? Do you know what I think? I think you attract where you're at mentally. And as I say, I didn't deal with a lot of that trauma. So I just carried on and I just carried on not knowing what my value was and going out with men that were below me actually.

17:05And, you know, they shouldn't, they should never have got me in the first place, but because I didn't think I was great, I would allow it. And then I had a period of being single. I went out with my friends. I focused on myself, on work, the podcast started and I started to get more confidence in who I am. And actually I'm a catch. I'm a great mom. I'm, you know, I'm a good person so that when James did come along, I was ready. And I think I attracted somebody like him because I was giving that energy out and I wouldn't have accepted any less than that either. So when James slid into the DMs. What was the first line?

17:42It was a fire emoji. and you know what i say i ignored it for a bit and then he sent me a pie and i thought god this one's cute so then we started speaking and we actually spoke like pen pals for six months oh facetiming each other chatting never met up never met up and then one day i thought i'm gonna have to meet this guy he's gonna get bored i don't know if he wants a pen pal so i said right i'll come around for a coffee i made myself i thought right that's it yeah go around for a coffee so i just turned up at the door and honestly when he opened the door i knew he was good looking um but when he opened the door and he smiled at me i just thought shit shit i'm in i'm in i'm in oh god that's it i'm in love and from that meeting we've just never been apart it's just the best thing that's ever ever happened to me so that's so lovely yeah and that wouldn't have happened and it would have been hindsight's a lovely thing and if i'd have known that when I was going through such an awful time yeah I would have felt that but the thing is we don't know so sometimes you have to have almost like a blind faith that it's gonna be all right I don't know why but it is and it always is yeah and it was it always is and James has children of his own when you met him so and obviously you had your daughter did you have conversations about that how like how you might navigate it the funny thing is it's weird because I absolutely adore my kids and I'm really mumsy you might say with them but I'm not a lover of kids okay I'm not really I don't you know if we're in a room I'll pretend to be nice when your mum's looking I'm like you're not cooing though I'm not and then I'll turn around like right go away now yeah um I'm just not I'm just you know not like that so when I was like doing my Instagram dive I saw pictures with these three kids I thought must be his nieces and nephews how lovely and then he's like no no no They're mine.

19:30And he, two to one lady and one to another. So we've got a real mix going on here. I've got to make him sound like he's throwing his willy around. Maybe he has been. It's Nick Cannon, ladies and gents. Yes, exactly. Exactly. So yeah, I knew about them early on. And when I met them, the great kids, you know, the youngest was 18 months old. Yep. I found it a lot easier to bond with her because she was 18 months old. My little girl was about four then. So I'd just done the girl, baby girl mum. So I could just do it again. I just went straight back into it. It was lovely. Just looking after a baby again.

20:07The boys were a little bit older. So although they were lovely, I didn't find it quite as easy because I'd never looked after boys of that age. I've only ever had girls. Very different. So it wasn't the easiest of things, but we made it happen. And the kids were very lucky, got on straight away, which was lucky. That's so great. I took over when she was with us, the kind of mother, not mother, but step-mom role of the little one, which I found really easy. And we just kind of went from there. And then six months, we all moved in together. Which is just wonderful, really, isn't it? Wow. So you chatted for six months?

20:43Chatted for six months, got together. We were together for about six months. And then we were like, sod this. I'm not going backwards and forwards anymore. Let's just do it. Let's just go for it. And James is an incredible dad, which was so attractive to me given my past experiences. That was a real selling point for me. And he took fear on really, really well. It makes you feel in love with him more, I think. Because I've got a stepdaughter. When I saw my husband, my now husband, with his little girl, Ila, my beautiful stepdaughter, I think I fancied him more. I fell in love with him more because he was just the most incredible dad.

21:14And actually, it's funny because you don't get to see them in that space. Unless they've already got them. And the thing is, it's risky. It is. Because you've got a 50-50 chance they're going to be shit or good. And if you've already got a bit of an idea that they're good, well, that's why I ended up having Tommy. Because I thought, I can't not have a baby with you. We're going to have to. We're going to have to. We need to procreate. We need to. I need to. So then Tommy, number five. We don't have his kids all the time. We have the boys at 50%. So we kind of have like a weekend on, weekend off, and then a few days in the week.

21:46And do you know what? I think a lot of it comes down to organization. And I'm incredibly organized. So I'm like, right, everybody's uniform out the night before. Ninja. James is not. I'm the one that has the diary. I'm saying exactly what's going on. But look, it hasn't been. I don't want to sit here and not be true and be honest and say, oh, it's all been absolutely amazing. It hasn't always. And having a blended family is really difficult sometimes because you're not just dealing with the kids. you're dealing with, in my case, several other people that are involved in it. You're co-parenting in different directions with Fia's dad.

22:26There's lots of people involved, their schedules, all the rest of it. You're also almost expected to fall in love and mother a child that you've only known for six months, a year, 18 months, which isn't the easiest thing in the world. And I'm always really honest about the fact that I get a lot of DMs and a lot of people messaging me saying, I'm a stepmom I'm finding it really hard I can't bond or I feel a little bit of um irritation towards them or the way that they're parented isn't how I want to parent them yeah so I don't want to sit here and pretend that it has been so so easy because I grew up as an only child so to put me and then I had Thea on my own so then to put me into a family of at the time six yeah and a house with six people in I don't like chaos I'm very organized I'm very calm I like my little routine and then there were four children running around oh yeah it's big isn't it i have had to stand in the corner of the room and breathe so many times and that's not because of the kids it's kids in general it's just the body in the canvas under the stairs and did you ever sort of think about how fear might take to having a baby brother because she was obviously an only child ish so when i had tommy i kind of expected there might be a little bit of jealousy from her I think all mums when it's your second you assume you're never going to love another as much I genuinely I'd kind of accepted it I was like you know what that's okay that's okay yeah I'll still love him no it won't be as much as the but it's fine and it's not like that you know when they come I just was obsessed um but she has been she's like having a nanny an au pair a free well not very bloody expensive actually she's very expensive um but it's like having an au pair honestly I say to her every day I couldn't do this without you she passes me things she'll change his nappy if I'm doing one thing she'll keep an eye on him there's not been one bit of jealousy and I really put that down to the fact that she went from one to being one of four like that kids are so resilient and they learn so quickly and they're very accepting actually so much more than I think that we think they are oh yeah you don't realise how strong they are I mean, I have kept an eye on it and I have made sure that I do have a bit of time, just me and her, because it sounds awful.

24:47But just being honest, I am shorter with her probably sometimes. I don't have the same patience sometimes because if he's crying and I'm trying to sort out his bottles and then she's going, Mum, can I have her? Mum, I will go, Thea, can you give me a minute? And then you think, oh, God, I feel awful. But it's because having a baby, they need you a little bit more than the eight-year-old at that time. And I have apologised. I've just said to her, listen, I'm sorry if sometimes I snap at you a bit more or I'm a bit shorter, but my mind with the baby, she's like, I know, I know. So I always make sure I speak to her.

25:17Not like an adult, but I don't baby her. I talk to her like my friends sometimes. And I explain to her, listen, it's blooming hard work for you sometimes. And she gets it. So I'm very lucky. She is, she's incredible with him and I didn't expect it. So. Yeah. How do you find your role as stepmom? It's again, everyone's is going to be different and it's finding your place. So with James's kids, they've got fantastic mums. They don't need a mother. So with the little one, I did fall into that kind of step-mom role more because I was caring for her a little bit more. And I just find that, especially girls, they want a woman.

25:51She wanted like a female there. So I stepped into that role and I think she still does. But they've got mums, they've got great mums, so they don't need a mum. But what they do need, in my opinion, is still a motherly figure in the house. I'm not the mum, but they still come to me if they need new pyjamas, if they need an iPhone charger gate. They always need a new iPhone charger, but whatever it is, they come to me. If they've got a problem, the other night, the littlest, she's five now, was sick in the night. Don't know why. She came up the stairs, you know, upset. She didn't say, daddy, I've been sick.

26:28She said, Lauren, I've been sick because I'm that mummy figure in the house. So I'm the one that if they need something, if they're hungry, if they still come to me. And I try without being, you know, the mom, because I'm not, I try and still be that role. And I think I am. I think I'm still the woman of the house, which I like to be. So that's obviously how they see you. How do you see your place with them? So like, how does that relationship for you, what does that give you? How does that feed you? What do you struggle with? I think it's hard. Like I said before, you know, when you have your own child, you've carried it, you've given birth and you naturally have, most people have that undying love for them.

27:13It just, it's there because they are your children. When another child is brought to you, that bit didn't happen. So you have to get to know them. You have to build on the relationship and over time you learn about them as people and almost like little friends as opposed to it isn't just there it just isn't and it might be for some people but I'm not going to sit here and say oh the second I got them they felt like my second children they didn't yeah they didn't but we've built on it and over the years we've had experiences together we've been on holiday we've made memories we've got in jokes now um so for me I'm just there like when it's Christmas for example I feel a big responsibility that they might not be with their mum that night on Christmas Eve, you know, one year, but they still should have an amazing Christmas Eve like their mum would do.

28:03So I feel like I still go above and beyond to make sure that they get that experience, if that makes sense. And although they're not my children, they are still part of my family. And that's kind of how I try and look at it. That's lovely, Lauren. Do you find it harder with the older ones? Because they've obviously not known you for as long and there's probably like, I don't know, there's more stuff to disagree on, I guess. Yeah, absolutely. I think with the youngest, as I say, she couldn't even speak when I met her. So I've been there for the whole thing. She's known me as me and as a second motherly figure.

28:36Whereas with the older ones, I mean, they were great to be fair. We've been really lucky, you know, because I hear stories where it's not that easy and they have been absolutely brilliant. the great kids. But it was harder. They had behaviors that I probably irritated them. They certainly irritated me. And you have to, there has to be a bit of push and pull there to kind of get used to finding your place with them. And we're there now. We've all got our own place in the family. But yeah, the older ones, definitely harder. I'm lucky at the age I met them though. I think teens might've been even harder still.

29:10So I kind of got them, I think they were about six and nine. How old are they now? Nine and 12. There's too many. I can't bloody remember. I can't remember, but they were at a decent age. Yeah. And the great kids, which just made it easier. But I know it's not, I honestly know that it's not that easy for a lot of people and blended families, it's tough. Yeah. It's tough. Yeah. There's no denying that. We'll be right back after this short break. Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? How do you find the difference in parenting styles? So for example, when they come to your family home, their family home, do you see a difference between the way that they're being brought up in the other houses?

29:57they're being brought up i think we're all bringing them up really well so that's fine but there may be little things you know it might be for example we've started a bit of a health kick at the house so we're like you're not having cereal for breakfast and that's our decision because i realize it's actually not that good but they may have cereal at their house but that's absolutely fine it's more certainly with fear the way i look at it with fear is when she goes to her grandma and granddad's um her dad's i always say their house their rules yep and that's that and And I say it to her grandparents as well.

30:27If you want to give a cereal, you give a cereal. She has a bedtime at my house. If your bedtime's different, fine. And I think it's all right when they're a little bit older. I do think when they're younger, that's when it can be quite hard because they need routine when they're younger. So it's so annoying when you have got a routine and then they go there and the routine is spoiled. And then they come back like a little devil child. And you have to pick up the pieces. And it used to happen. It used to happen. She'd come back on a Monday and I'd think, well, who's that that you've just dropped at my door?

30:56Because it's not fair. So that would happen. But now she's older, I kind of say, look, your house, your rules. I trust you. If I'm trusting her to be with you for the weekend, then I have to trust your rules. Otherwise, she shouldn't be going. And I trust them. I trust the rules. And she knows that there's two different rules. And that is absolutely fine. They don't differ greatly, but bedtimes, certain foods, maybe certain words that we're allowed to use and not use. But I just think as long as you're all respectful of each other and you say, look, if that's what you do there, that's fine. Because kids are very clever.

31:26Yeah. If you don't put that kind of thing into play, they will manipulate. They are clever. They will say, well, mum says I can do that. And the best way to be is that's amazing, but not here. Yeah. And that's such a good place to be. And I bet it's been, I guess it's probably been hard to get to that where you're like, okay, you know what? I've got to just hand over control to somebody else now. You have to. And there might be grown up conversations that you have separately about it. but you know that's life isn't it as long as the kids are healthy happy well looked after which they are does it matter whether they're allowed a packet of crisps or not really probably not and if you want to make things difficult if you want to sit there in your own head being fuming at a packet of crisps then that's on you and it's your day ruined or you can think it's a packet of crisps I'll be alright listen I think a packet of crisps a day keeps the doctor away you know it's fine bloody love crisps I love crisps they're my favourite oh god I could just eat I could eat crisps all day crisps and dips should be the national dish crisps and dips what's your favourite crisp oh just how long you got anything oh no bloody I love salt and vinegar salt and vinegar absolutely absolutely love them oh yeah god I could eat especially in a pub when you get in a pub and you have fun nuts olives anything that you can shove in a dip yeah delicious I agree and anything you can pick at and eat a lot without realising yeah Because then you don't feel that bad, you're on edge of it.

32:51Oh, yeah, it's only a little thick. A little thicky bit. Yeah, I agree. Love it. Let's talk about your podcast. Yeah. It started off with sex. Yeah. Well, cosmetic surgery. Oh, God, it's a bit of everything, you know. The best way to describe it is a group chat. But the kind of group chat that you know no one's ever going to see with your best friends that you can say what you want. So it started off, we spoke about our embarrassing experiences. We spoke about sex. We were both single at the time. So we were having sex. So we spoke about it and we were open about it. And one of the main things that I think that did was it made other people think, oh, well, I can be open about it then.

33:31If I've had sex with someone, that doesn't make me an awful person, just like it doesn't make a man an awful person. But there was so much, and I do think it's getting better, stigma and so much unfair judgment around women having casual sex, but not men. so we kind of were like yeah I've had a one night stand and and we spoke about it really openly and we laughed about it and we told our really funny stories and what we actually we had a section it was called Slutty Sue and people would write in with their oh my god I fucking love this with their impressions it was their sex so what they do is at the weekend they do something unhinged and then they'd email us like I've slept with me my boyfriend's brother or whatever it might be and we'd read it out and then everyone listening would feel better about whatever they got up to at the weekend.

34:17But this was four years ago, you know, since we've both got married. So we were both single. It was where we were at the time. So that's kind of how it started. And all of a sudden, people were like, I like that because that's how I feel, but I've been scared to say it. So we were like, oh, let's just laugh about it. It's not a big deal. And then we speak about cosmetic surgery as well. What work we've had done, what we haven't had done, really openly. But also, we're mums. so I feel like a lot of the time society forces you to be a type of person so you if you're a mom you need to be a certain way yeah if you have a career you need to be somewhere if you're into cosmetic surgery if you want to talk about sex and we kind of said why can't we be a bit of everything why can't I be an amazing mom that's obsessed with my child to the point where she still sleeps with me but I like a bit of surgery and when I was single I had a shag yeah you know why can't we be like that?

35:10Yeah, can't be all of it. Why can't you be a bit of everything? And no one fits into a box. No, you don't have to. And that's all right. And it was about owning who you are and being like, this is me. This is my opinion. I don't mind if you don't agree with me. That's all right. And you're entitled to, but this is me. And it just, it seemed there were a lot of women that found that really, really refreshing. And then as we've got older, you know, we've been through pregnancies. We've been through, as I say, marriages split ups we've and we've spoken about it really openly all the way along and if one person's listening and that makes them feel better so they're not on their own great job done yeah I'll do I'll tell you the embarrassing story if it makes you feel better yeah I do think there's something about a podcast like that where it's in your ears as well and it feels like a lot of people listen to you and feel like you're talking to them you don't realize how many women actually don't have that many friends or friends they can be open and honest with um and you find yourself sometimes in a circle it might be that you met some school mum friends and that's your circle but they're not your day ones they're not your core the body bag friends yes shit quick i've killed someone let's bury it yes you don't often not many people and i didn't realize until i did the pod because i'm very lucky that i do have those friends that not everyone has right so Well, Nip Tuck then created a community of people that were like-minded and they could listen to us and think, oh God, I feel like that.

36:40I've done that. And we've become like their virtual best friends and they've watched us grow. They've watched us make mistakes. And that's another thing. I am so open about mistakes I've made. I didn't used to be, but now I am. I've done things that I shouldn't have done. I've had relationships that I shouldn't have had and I've made mistakes, but I'm going to tell you that I made it. You might learn from it. And I'm not going to be, feel bad about that because we all make them. And I think that's important as well. Yeah. I mean, and being that honest and that vulnerable, like you said, it does help people.

37:11It's the way, it's the way we normalize things. It helps people, but it also gives you a strength because if I am me and I own that, my mistakes, my, you know, things about me that I love things about me that I don't like so much. If I'm really open and honest about that, you can't really criticize me because I'll agree with you. I'll say, yeah, that's fine. Nobody can, when you're yourself and your true genuine self, you aren't lying at all. So you can't, it's a very brave thing to do. And once you've done that, you don't really give a shit what anyone thinks of you. It doesn't really matter.

37:44I've said it about myself. Go on, you say it as well. It doesn't really matter. No, no. I was just going to, I was just going to say, annoyingly, we've had the little finger wrap up saying we have to finish the book. We're done. Oh, the wrap. The wrap. The little finger wrap. But I feel like we needed to, there was so much more we needed to cover. Well, listen, we'll have to come back on. Anytime. Thank you for having me. Before you go, though, we wanted to ask your best piece of parenting advice, which we ask all of our guests. Or like the advice you wish you'd been given. Yeah. So, something that my mum taught me, there's two things.

38:18Something my mum taught me when Theo was born is mum guilt. She was born and within a few hours, I had this overwhelming feeling of guilt. I don't know what it was. I thought, I've not done this enough. She was only a few hours older. My mum said to me, welcome to motherhood. You will feel guilty from now until forever. And what you need to accept is there is no rhyme or reason and it doesn't make sense and it isn't logical. Accept it's mum guilt, move on. And then the other thing is, again, my mum once said to me, it's not the first time and it probably won't be the last. I remember when she had her first bump to the head.

38:51and we were in A &E and I felt awful. And she said to me, not the first, it probably won't be the last. And that's another thing. If you make the mistakes, as long as you know you love your kids and you're trying your best, stop giving yourself such a hard time because they think you are amazing. I love that. That's so nice. Thank you guys for having me. Thank you. Lauren, thank you so much. And thanks for coming so far. Oh my God, I love you. We really appreciate it. Lauren, everyone. Bye guys. Thank you.

39:23Thank you.