Lucy Menghini on How To Build a Successful Business from Scratch

0:00Hello and welcome to Made by Mum as the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman and I'm Georgia Dayton and this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits with five kids between G and I we have seen a lot we really have each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way in short we're the parenting podcast for you before we get started hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands and they're on Tuesdays and Fridays and it really helps if you leave a rating and a review You can also find us on Instagram.

0:34We're on at Made by Mamas. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hello, it's just me. God, we're getting used to this now. Actually, Zoe was with us earlier, but she wasn't feeling well. And in the spirit of who we are at Made by Mamas, we don't force people to stick around if they're not feeling well. And if you're not, you have to go home. So it's just me chatting away. Just a quick one before we get into the chat. I put on socials the other day about Gigi having her ears pierced. She really wants to have her ears pierced. She's six. And can I just say thank you to everybody who wrote in to give their opinion?

1:09Because lots of people were, you know, very much like, oh, I want to do it as well. But I just think it's not, it's not acceptable. You know, are they too young? And then other people like, Georgia, it's just a pair of earrings. Just let her do it. Like whatever. And so I'm going with that. It is just a pair of earrings. Like seriously, I'm not like putting her on OnlyFans, but you know, that's not where we're going here. It's just a pair of earrings. So I'm going to let her do it. And yes, she probably will have to sit out of PE for three weeks. But that, you know, who am I to argue with a six-year-old who wants some studs in her ears?

1:49So that's where I'm at. But today we are talking all things business, growing a business how how to even start a business and when you should start a business um also how that feeds into motherhood do we like the term girl boss do we hate it um or mum boss um and so we have a founder on the podcast today she started her company six years ago it's called six stories and she is sharing sort of guess how she did it and it's very different to a normal founder story it's not an overnight success she talks about the fails that she's had in the past she also works with her husband and says they're yin and yang so let's get into the chat I'm chatting to Lucy Mangini well it's actually just me today because unfortunately Zoe isn't feeling very well but I have a feeling that this is going to be fine because our guest absolutely knows her stuff and I'm really really looking forward to this chat.

2:52Founder of the incredible six stories, mum of two, it's Lucy Mangini. Oh hello, nice to meet you. Lovely to meet you as well. Just for you know warming up, how's your morning been? My morning has been chaos. So I dropped the kids, well dropped my little one, he's just gone into school in September. oh so he's four oh he's four I know and I've just had loads of videos come through of the nativity I'm not out oh no but it's fine it's fine it's just a dress rehearsal today oh okay fine four things tomorrow I can't get to that either but anyway yeah it was pouring down with rain this morning so I dropped him off at school ran to the train station got on the train we um we have got like the most crazy January planned and a lot of that is recruitment so I have been just inundated with emails, DMs, phone calls, people just desperate to have interviews with us which is really exciting but yeah it's just been a bit of one of those mornings you know.

3:58It's been a lot. It's fine now this is this is the easy part of the day really isn't it? Yeah and obviously I just gave you a brief introduction about who you are but just for those listening talk to us a little bit about like the business you started why you decided to start it and just a bit of background okay so I'm Lucy and I founded Six Stories six years ago um I was speaking to a friend uh about my intros to the podcasts I'm doing over the next couple of days and I was like you know it's crazy because I just have arrived here by accident that's how I feel she was like go with that so I very much feel like uh it was born out of a love for getting married myself I was working in marketing at the time and um and I just had made a lot of things it was really lovely I was really really sentimental about the whole experience through them online and um honestly the evolution over the next six the the last six years has been crazy because it started as this like very diy wasn't really a brand to this massive massive massive brand where you know we're stocked all over the world asos nordstrom in the states the iconic in australia um i think there's a statistic it's like one in ten bridesmaids will be in a six stories dress you know things like that which are just absolutely beyond my wildest dream never really imagined that we would get to this point I ran it with my husband there's a team of about 30 of us up in Manchester yeah so it's amazing we've just um we we've uh uh our revenue is over 10 million now which is just like crazy the last three years of growth have been phenomenal um and I think it's for just the most crazy and beautiful evolution of understanding what the next woman wants you know yeah as cliche as that sounds yeah and I think that we just do it a little bit differently and we've just built it really very much brick by brick you know on our own making common sense of all the decisions and um yeah it's great do you know what it's so refreshing to hear that because I think you can speak to so many founders of these big businesses and it can feel so out of reach for a lot of people you know like how on earth do you get there but the fact that you said that it started literally from you know a passion and loving like a bit of DIY like making your own dresses and popping them online to where you are now what actually made you decide to like put them online also were you working alongside it as well yeah yeah so um my husband we are chalk and cheese and that's why it works so very well because we he's the ceo i'm the founder creative we are he is you know incredibly astute and i am not i am like textbook dyslexic textbook adhd like the the whole works you know that's me and and and we work really nicely together uh very like Ian and Yang so he he has always been like so so much self-belief in me and himself you know he's been the absolute driving force for anything that we we've done um I was working for Stephen Barler at the time who you know back then he was only about 23 oh wow so yeah I was I was I was the marketing director of social chain which was this like crazy agency there were dogs and slides and sleeping pods and it was just the most crazy environment and I was there for about three years and Ross and I had tried to do various different things we tried a podcast agency we tried to drop ship some products and you know they didn't come to anything failed um and then when we finally got married we've been together forever like 20 years next year from school um cute when when he finally proposed you know I was just so enamored with the whole experience and really wanted it to be lovely and there's such a gap in what was available online and I think my marketing experience and then just these cute little things they were handmade tutus for the little flower girls who also made some like hair vines you know really silly kitschy thing it's almost like not part of the story now because it's just so far away from what we do now um so yeah I decided to list them online and I I think it's interesting everything is so performative now like if you're if you follow an influencer or an entrepreneur you know you you the fake it till you make it it's almost not correct it's not factually correct because you have to just compound make little make little changes do little things and they compound and I think that's what people forget you know and why it's important to remember that if you want to go and do something for yourself if you're you know January's coming people like to change their jobs or you know set a set some goals for yourself like you can start making huge change but I think we're all in this generation of being served so much content of like the end result and that is so unreachable but that's not that's not what you should be focusing on it's like making your first pound or getting your first uh couple of followers on Instagram or whatever social do you know what I mean yeah it's like small steps yeah isn't it it doesn't have to be like I think it's as well though like we've probably been fed so much of this sort of overnight success you know where you see I know an influencer for instance who will go oh I started my account three weeks ago and now I've got a million followers and I can't believe it and then suddenly they have a big business and a big brand and that is like that happens basically never and the majority of people like you just say are focused on their first pound their next 20 pounds like and building a business like that and actually probably that's usually they're usually the businesses that stick around yeah definitely there's so much hard and fast like traction that you can get online at the moment but it doesn't last yeah it's so fickle isn't it so yeah I'd yeah and even if you do blow up say overnight like six years is quite a short amount of time really yeah it is me and Ross were hustling you know for years before that so so yeah it's been a really interesting ride and then I kind of find myself here and it's mad and what's Ross's background so he same as me like neither of us went to uni we just bounced around we um did like training management program with Sainsbury's just the most unglamorous unsexy career history uh both of us really he went into um tech sales yeah and I went into marketing so yeah we really like complement each other in our skill set and our personalities I suppose you know that's what makes it work we'll be right back after this short break welcome back to this episode of made by mamas now where were we so you you obviously talked about the very beginning of the business when did when did you get to the point where you could leave your jobs how did you do that because I think a lot of people with side hustles and businesses will think well how on earth do you know yeah when to take the leap yeah a hundred percent um now we we moved to Manchester when Manchester was not a sexy place to be right bought really early in Manchester and um we managed to scrape as many savings together to buy another little apartment and then we let that out and then we did that again a couple of times over a couple of years this was really early days in manchester honestly you still wouldn't walk around where we lived it was right and coats is basically where yeah and uh you know now it's like the hottest place to be so so we basically lived painfully you know like we really saved really frugal we drive around in this clapped out little white smart car for years like you know really really um live to our means and um we decided after we got married that I was going to consult do a bit of marketing consultancy so I always had that to fall back on um and Ross was going to do the same thing so we had like a little bit of income a little bit of passive income yeah which is an amazing uh thing to learn about there's an amazing book called rich dad poor dad yes my husband has read that many times I've read it vicariously through Ross yeah yeah yeah but basically it's important I think a lot of people don't understand like the how to spend your money or to be money smart especially now when you can you know get anything pay later it's a really dangerous world that I think we're in when you're not educated on how you're managing your money so so we basically left and six stories was always this thing like in the background it was never supposed to be the thing it really really wasn't ever supposed to be the thing but it just kept growing really organically um I then hired my mum and a few other like local mums from my hometown you know it's really like hand to mouth very very small really never believed it was going to be what it is today so were that so when you say you hired your mom like in what capacity like were you still designing stuff yeah like who was doing that so I was doing the the like the marketing the photography the customer service the ordering of all the bits and bobs that we needed and my mom was physically making what was then the flower girl little skirts so cute so yeah so it was just we leveraged and then well I did that for a couple of years and then Ross was like hang on a minute hang on a minute how much money have we got coming through this account because it looks you know I think you're doing all right but uh it's costing you a bit too much and when we sort of sat down and went through all of it because like I say this is like beyond me I don't really care about the money it's about you know having all of these gorgeous conversations with the customers um he was actually I think we could this this is a thing you know let's get it going so that was all pre-covid right it was all very much um peace work with my mum she would uh we would send orders down to my hometown which was like three hours away from where we were living um and we went into covid obviously all the weddings were cancelled everything was you know yeah it was terrible had no idea what we were going to do um but the concept of um you know when you get married you don't need to ask someone if they're getting married they will absolutely tell you don't they you know yeah so we had these amazing conversations with these customers and she wanted to buy some it from me but I couldn't give her anything apart from this flower girl tutu when she's getting married so we developed all of this gorgeous product uh which was like um web merch merchandise you know really nicely done not not a tacky you know really lovely product and uh yeah went into went into lockdown thought oh my god what on earth we're gonna do and um we decided to give away these t-shirts that just had this really cute little embroidery on that said bridey yeah we only thought we'd probably give away a couple of hundred and it ended up being like 15 ,000 of them so it really kept us busy over lockdown and it created this amazing like give back culture to us we created this amazing community of women going through something and we were there and it wasn't really about selling that we didn't really have anything to sell them you know so we went into Covid looking like one thing very like Etsy business and came out looking a complete brand we then had our first like grown up hires and things like that so yeah so it was very much like leaning into what your customer was telling you leaning into the adversity we really weren't frightened of it failing because we failed before you know and I think you've got to if if it is something that you want to do go out on your own you have to get used to being embarrassed yeah of course yeah when you when you start telling people I'm doing I'm gonna go and do this thing it's like almost painful yeah and yeah that's so true and I think that it's only embarrassing until it's successful yeah and then it's not anymore but why is that because actually that but that's probably again why not many people do it because they can't take the step 100 or get over the embarrassment yeah and I think hope for anyone listening that that is the only way right yeah it's just to step in yeah I agree yeah absolutely you just have to like show up for yourself and so going back to your question about when do you know when to quit your day job well I think to do it properly you really have to understand where your money is if you can build up some sort of passive income to allow you to do that or you just have to lose that car you know yeah any holiday and you have to be really realistic with how difficult it is you know um I actually think longer the day so I could just set up an Instagram account and get a few thousand followers in a short amount it's like such a different game now isn't it so um so yeah I think I think you know as well you know when you've had enough and the balance of your attention is is where it should be yeah exactly yeah so for anyone starting a business now what would you say to them you know you've just mentioned there that growing on instagram is not how it was and it's not at all but you have mentioned community so what yeah I mean if I can only come at it from like an e-commerce point of view so if you have a product and you want to sell it I think like if you're um looking at some tech AI something like that you're completely different I've got no idea but um I always think you have to just focus on the first sale I think lots of my friends have come to me and they are so overqualified for the job and I think uh I didn't know what being a founder of a business that looked like mine looked like I certainly didn't think it looked like me do you know what I mean yes and I think you've almost got to forget a lot of what you know you know if you're a buyer don't go and buy all the product got to learn your marketing if you're a marketing got to get to know what the product you know what I mean is yeah so I think um start small go and work somewhere and learn mirror that person or that brand um I think that's amazing you know I learned so much working at social chain with Steve you know they just absolutely rip up the rule book and look at how they've gone on my peer group everyone has gone on to do something amazing really yeah which is really interesting yeah that is interesting yeah so I think who are you around think about that like get all of those things done first before you then focus on the big idea the big picture um there's a really amazing platform called kickstarter I don't know whether you've heard of it before yeah so I actually started another business that doesn't exist but we raised 12 000 pounds to be able to get that business off the ground and you learn so much from failing so I just think like there are lovely platforms out there where you can put your idea on get the community involved in it get people to invest in the idea that's basically what Kickstarter is great it's such a great tool there are loads and loads of great tools out there like that that I think give you a platform I would go to where the people are so for me uh being in bridal listing on Etsy is absolutely where the people are don't have to pay for the marketing and things like that so yeah so start small I guess I think so that would be I mean if I was doing it again I think I'd probably do exactly the same thing you know find something that I can I can make and understand and I love it and I understand exactly why she's buying that from me and then go out there and try and sell it you know I whatever we whatever we sell it always whatever we do whatever piece of content we put out what what product we create it's always got to have a line of how is this creating joy for someone that's our like value we create more joy that's what we do so that yeah yeah so it's about finding your values yeah find who your customer is yeah oh 100 % yeah I mean if you don't know that then you're screwed yeah yeah yeah no no but it's like you're saying like people you know want to jump to the next and the next thing but you probably have to get the basics right 100 % before you can get there yes and books books your teacher will be the books you choose to read like I believe it's the biggest gift you can give yourself as going to read read books this is marketing is another amazing one which I think we put a lot of our a lot of our like success down to is a few things in there that we always come back to these points so yeah we're so close to our customer and we know exactly why she comes to us and that is because we make her feel something and that's almost like a new category in fashion you know you could buy your bridesmaid dresses from the bridal shop downtown and you can have a lovely very sentimental experience but it's really hard you've got to book the appointments quite archaic the expensive or you could buy them on asos I mean we stocked on asos so it's not a good example but you can buy them from and like boohoo a fast fashion brand and it just arrives in a plastic bag and no one cares and I think we like meet her in the middle so we really understand the world that we want her to step into and that it hasn't mattered really whether she's buying this a little tutu or whether she's buying a gorgeous 200 pound white dress that she's planning to wear wear on her wedding day yeah you know we just really understand the psychology behind why why she's with us yeah i love that yeah we'll be right back after this short break

22:52welcome back to this episode of made by mommas now where were we and so we've obviously talked a lot about the business now when you started the business you weren't a mum no i wasn't so talk to us about that how did you because I think especially as a founder that's quite difficult decision to make 100 % yeah and I so I turned 30 again you know the business back then was was tiny and um I was desperate for a baby you know like it just turns on I didn't even really I wasn't ever over romantic about like I'm gonna have four kids and I'm gonna I just it was just the most animalistic thing that came over me it was like oh you're 13 now let's go yeah so um I'd we I tried to have him for about a year and um you know that horrible cycle anyway finally fell pregnant with Rudy and um you know on my house on the ball yeah I'm definitely in labor tends machine on like sending emails to the the girlie that was doing our PR at the time and went into labor went into the hospital had him came home and a couple of days later he was just on my desk and that was very much my experience of my first um uh never been to a baby sensory class in my life yeah um and and I have no I think a lot of people think they should feel certain things but I have no regret no guilt no nothing because he both boys they are my absolute pride and joy they are like so well-rounded lovely their sensory was coming into the office and helping me pack orders you know and yeah I yeah it was lovely so he was with me uh every day until he was about eight months old by that point I didn't realize I was pregnant again oh wow yeah yeah I um I I don't know I think I was about he was about seven months eight months and I was like this vaccine this vaccine's really messed up my cycle and all the girls in the office yeah me too me too I was just pregnant I had no idea um so yeah so we found out we were expecting again and thought right we need to sort out this child care now we don't have any support it's just us all of our families in the southwest and we're up in manchester so um i've very very serendipitous serendipitous what's the how do you say serendipitous by chance yeah by chance um a friend said um what have you thought about child minder i thought i didn't even know that was still a thing like i just had like nursery just got to go to nursery that's what all of my friends had done nursery child mind okay and he was so small and he'd been with us the whole time you know and we're like really calm really so we went to view a few nurseries and it just you didn't like it I didn't like it yeah they go to a nursery or they were at nursery now so we did get to a nice nursery in the end but yeah it was just like screaming kids and they're all there like it was just not yeah not what I imagined and when it's you know it's my choice to put him into to put him in somewhere so I thought it has to be the right place anyway met this gorgeous lady Auntie Tracy and uh and Rudy started going to her um four days a week three days a week and she's now our nanny so she now comes to the house so now Rudy's gone to school because I can't possibly you know the school time what is it 10 to 9 20 past three but what yeah how could you possibly do it no you can't so so yeah so now now we have uh trace who the kids love she's like the grandparent you know yeah um and uh and yeah we've we've got like quite a nice balance of it where it feels comfortable and the kids are really happy and they they feel like they're in a nice flow with it as yeah I like here they're everywhere I get that as you can imagine But I love that you say that, you know, like you're having a baby and like those first, like the first year or whatever, it doesn't have to be how everyone makes it out to be because it doesn't.

27:23Like I think it holds people back, them thinking, oh, well, I couldn't start a business because then what will I do when I have the baby? But you're saying, look, there was no sensory. I was just taking Rudy to the office and that's how it was. And you got by and you did it. and you have never been to a baby sensory yeah I I really struggle actually with the like over romanticizing of all the experiences like that how we're told we should yeah you are going to become I just don't subscribe to it and I really don't even like you know people say you know well you you go to work for the children I don't even go to work for the job I'm not doing this for the children doing it for me yeah yeah and I think you can only be the best version of yourself and it's something that over the last sort of I don't know six eight months or so six months I've really come into my own thoughts about that you know I think everything is an economy now when you have your first baby you know you got to buy the white noise machine you've got this that you got a black oh we got a black out there yeah you know I've you had nanny what's her name I had her app you know like swaddle that baby put him down I think we because everything is like an economy very performative I think it's taken away our generation of like our instinct yeah that's true because then baby number two was completely different you know obviously you're a bit more experience with it but again I just did not subscribe to the leaps and the this and he just he just was this gorgeous little thing that just was so much easier because I think I wasn't worried about this that and the other so I think it's very similar with starting your own business you've just got to not worry about the the end goal the big thing and just what's the one thing you can do today and it's the same with the kids like I was having a conversation with some friends the other week and they were worried about this that and in the future and what are we gonna do don't mate let's just focus on today you know like I think we us women are so like pressured to worry about the future and who you're gonna be and actually who are you now yeah I mean yeah running the business like I said earlier I feel like um you know I uh didn't think that it could be run like this but there is no rules to any of this and that has been such an amazing realization that you can do it your way you know yeah there's it doesn't have to be a formula yeah 100 % do you buy into this whole um like mum boss no stuff no no no I think I also I think I'm not a mum boss I'm both of them things and I and neither of them really influence the other yeah I'm quite good and I think it's important to very much put yourself in the container like today I'm here with you and there's a whole world that my little boys are living but they are safe and they're happy and they're healthy and that's cool and I'm like not worried about that you know I think you can you can wrap yourself up in riddles so you've got to like really understand who you're going to be or how how you're going to get the best out of yourself in that moment and just try to let go of the rest at the weekend you know it's all about the kids it's really hard isn't it to do anything apart from be mum and play with the lego and go to the skate park and you know do all of those things I'm very I think I'm like quite different people in those environments yeah I think that's really important probably I think a healthy way to manage at all otherwise you know you'd be pining to be there and pining to be at home so yeah I I don't and with that I think anybody that says you know or there is a nice work-life balance it comes in fits and starts you know you've got to just like choose choose your heart yeah I mean yeah no that that does really make sense and also I guess like the whole mum boss narrative I think you I don't know about you but growing up female bosses or people females in power of some sort were seen as like non-maternal pretty harsh um like maybe a bit mean yeah like all of those things yeah you had to be oh you've got to be cutthroat and you've got to be a bitch and actually like you're saying about ripping the rule book up I really think that like that's not where we are now yeah like also who's going to want to work for you if you're a complete bitch are you going to get the best out people oh god a hundred percent no yeah no way yeah and I think like a lot of our we're predominantly female in the office so we we are or I am like acutely aware of clicks toxic if anyone's not being kind like it's nipped in the bud like there is no our attrition is excellent we haven't really had many levers um but but there have been people that have left because they haven't been the right fit you know yes they don't fit in and I'm so so protective of the like psychological safety of those girls in the office and that they all feel um that they it's clear and it's kind you know there's a balance you can be too pally and too cutesy and then it becomes toxic or you can be too like direct and then you lose the care a lot of our girls are mums and we I think our like number one thing is trust me and Ross have to be flexible for the boys and I would never expect me to be able to leave to do something for the children and not one of the other other members of the team so we have such a high trust environment um super flexible our map like pay is brilliant and truly flexible for her you know I I don't believe everyone wants to be sat at home with a baby you know you might but you also might not so actually if there are more kit days you want oh my god come on in you know so yeah so yeah I when we had to put our first like map policy in place I literally spoke to all of my friends did loads of surveys like what would be the best because I just really want it to be the most human first policy you know so So, so yeah, yeah, we, we keep it really real or try to, you know, it's hard, it's the hardest thing, but the leading team, a hundred percent.

34:21So I don't know if you know, but we've got a platform, NBM Careers, and it's basically a recruitment agency. Yeah. And that started because we were having so many conversations on the podcast where people were coming to us like, oh, I joined a company, um, and they talk about flexible working, but actually it's really not flexible. And, you know, I can have Friday off, which is great. But actually, if my son's got a nativity, I'm not allowed to go. Even though, you know, two weeks ago I worked till 11 because we had a launch or something. But I'm then not given any actual flexibility. And I think there's so much like negativity around flexibility because people are not being flexible about it.

35:04Right. Yeah. Because that's what it should be is flexible. And it's not one size fits all. But flexible on both sides. And I think a lot of people, it's got to a negative stage where flexibility is all take, take, take. But I think a lot of people have to realize that as an employee, you also have to be flexible if you want flexibility. 100%. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. It's both sides, right? I think COVID kind of threw all of that into question as well. You know, everyone working from home. Now, I actually don't work from home. I don't have enough bloody time to work from home. I'd love to but um I'm pulled from pillar to post a lot a lot of the time and I need to be in the office and I actually feel very strongly we do have flexible hybrid working but I think it's in the interest of the the team especially the junior ones to be in that office yeah there is no better career boost than hearing one of your peers or you know someone else on the phone to someone or you know understanding what it what it means to greet someone properly in the office or that mirroring that I've done in my career that apps I would never have known you just you can't be what you don't see and I think that a lot about like my kids but also the the team you know you have to be able to see it yeah so yeah I think you're right I think it gets it gets thrown into a question like hybrid working you know what does it mean what does flexible working mean it actually means what it it's not that I work from home every Wednesday that's not what the policy should be it's true flexible working you know and it's actually been an interesting uh one to explain what actual flexible working means you know yeah it's not you can't really write a policy about it no that's that's the thing isn't it it's very individual like for one person flexibility means one thing because everyone's family setup is different also um everyone's life is different and so yeah I that's why I was interested in how like you would come about writing a policy when like there's so like yeah it just all comes back down to trust and a lot of communication you know um So yeah, yeah, that.

37:27So just before we go, I just wanted to get some like practical pieces of advice on starting a business, juggling work and home life with a business. So what would your takeaways be for anyone listening to this podcast? Oh God, for me, I would say, get to know yourself is what I think I would say, because it wasn't until, it was about six months ago, I realized that my like coping mechanism of the balance of it all, wife, friend, mum, you know, owner of the business, work, whatever that looks like. that they that was not uh enough for me to be able to like truly be what I needed to be and I think you need to understand what you want how you want to do it and what you can physically do like there is only so much of you and you can't burn out is such a real thing I heard someone say the other day uh you can't burn out because what did she say something like we're not bloody candles how can you burn out I thought call it whatever you want you know I know I know anyway so I think yeah understand the shape of the life that you want to create I think that is really really important um and there's no big one grand plan it's it's literally the tiny tiny little minute things that you do every single day um so it's really wishy-washy rubbish advice that i think no but there i i think so many people are like overselling a dream and actually you just need to come right back down to like who you are do you trust yourself to go and do it because i think a lot of us women especially like our generation you know we're like in this weird world where we've grown up believe in something and now we're being told something else it's hard to know where you play yeah where your role is in all of that isn't it and what you think as well yeah so so yeah I would say reach out reach out to people get to know yourself try some things like what is the worst that can happen read loads of books and you will and just have you trust the process like you'll get there you get there by doing the little bits it all compounds in the Yeah, and I guess it doesn't have to be perfect.

40:02Oh, no. You just have to start. Yeah, whatever you start is not what it will become. Yeah. You know, when you guys started this. No. I bet you didn't imagine it was going to be. No, no, no. Exactly, same with me. With those little tutus, there was no, not in my wildest dreams would I have thought we would be here today. So, yeah, so just go with it and trust yourself. I love that. Thank you so much. It was my pleasure. Do you know what I loved so much about that episode? was the whole thing about just taking small steps because I think that is what puts so many people off starting something even like it you know I've got mates who really want to start an Instagram page and they won't because of the embarrassment or what about people talk about me what about but no one will talk about you if it's successful but also no one isn't really watching you that much that they really care so I think if you are wanting to start something just do it like just do the small things, do what you can.

41:01And like Lucy said, it's like that compound effect. If you just start small, you just start putting the wheels in motion. Eventually, it might be something and also it might not. So I think for me, that's my takeaway. But thank you so much for listening. As always, we would love you to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast. Like really do do that. And also tell your mates about the podcast as well. And if you've got any feedback on this episode or guests you'd like to hear from, drop us a dm on instagram we're on at made by mummers and we'll be back on friday