Melissa Suffield has Strong Opinions on the Education System

0:02Melissa Suffield: Zoe and Georgia will be here in just a moment with Made by Mummers. Once you've finished this episode, dive in to some of the other parenting podcasts from the team behind the show you're about to hear. Over on Secret Mum Club, Safina is not holding back from oversharing on the ups and downs of motherhood. And on You Don't Know You're Born, Danny Miller, Brooke Vincent and Wingman are putting their acting skills to the test as they tackle their latest parenting dilemma. Just search for Secret Mum Club and You Don't Know You're Born on your podcast app and hit follow so new episodes land straight in your feed.

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1:31Georgia Dayton: It's covered by insurance and there's no wait list. If you think that you or a loved one could be struggling with an eating disorder, don't wait to get help. Visit equip.health to learn more. That's equip.health. Hi, it's Sarah. I'm the founder of Olive and June. And can I tell you the one thing that always makes my day better? A fresh manicure. But who has the time or the money to go to the salon every week? That's why we created the Olive and June Gel Manny System. It gives you that same mani that you get at a salon for so much less. It comes with everything you need, a pro-level lamp, salon-grade tools, our damage-free gel polish that lasts up to 21 days.

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2:44Melissa Suffield: Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot.

2:57Georgia Dayton: We really have. Each week, we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts. And we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you.

3:07Melissa Suffield: Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram.

3:18Georgia Dayton: We're on at Made by Mummies. But for now, George, should we get into it?

3:23Melissa Suffield: Do you like to share with the listeners what's going on in your teeth at the moment?

3:26Georgia Dayton: I've got protein ball in my teeth.

3:29Melissa Suffield: Take that what you will, listeners. You've got protein ball in your teeth.

3:32Georgia Dayton: It's yours. I just nicked it from you.

3:34Melissa Suffield: I know you did. That's a sign of a very good friend. How are you, George?

3:38Georgia Dayton: I'm good. How are you?

3:40Melissa Suffield: I'm all right, I think. You think? Well, because we've got a puppy now. Oh, yeah. How is that? She's so cute.

3:47Georgia Dayton: She said congratulations on your newborn.

3:49Melissa Suffield: I know.

3:49Georgia Dayton: I'm a dog mum, guys. Congratulations on your new arrival. I should have sent you a card. What am I going to do? Could you do some meals? She's so cute. How is it?

4:00Melissa Suffield: Murphy, yeah, she's gorgeous. I think because we got her at 14 weeks and she's now 16 weeks so that little bit older because she was the last two in the litter I would totally fell in love with her um it's been a bit easier like she was already pretty much crate trained oh that's good she knew how to go for a wee and a poo on the mat she's going in the garden I just I don't know whether there's something in that like the breeder said she doesn't let them go until they're 12 weeks anyway because she believes that they need to stay with their mothers a bit a bit more and actually some people get the puppies at eight weeks which is so tiny yeah I'm trying to think when I got Rufus but I can't I've got no

4:33Georgia Dayton: idea I can't remember he definitely wasn't crate trained though that that is a real thing because

4:37Melissa Suffield: you feel like the worst parent in the world dog parent sorry dog parent oh my god you're gonna

4:42Georgia Dayton: become one of these people now isn't she I'm so conscious that I smell like dog all the time as

4:46Melissa Suffield: well I keep saying it to people oh sorry if I smell like dog and they're like you actually smell like perfume yeah so that's that's a bit of a thing we had Luna's birthday on Friday which she's really cute did you have a spa party is that what you were doing yeah i've got to give a shout out by the way this isn't an ad or it wasn't comp but i've got to give a shout out to lorraine the beauty fairy who came around with three three if there was three of them in total they set up like a little pamper party they did nails hair braiding she came highly recommended on instagram um in the surrey area and i thought it was really reasonably priced like bring in mind two years ago when i did it it cost me 500 quid she was 150 quid for 10 girls that's amazing

5:24Georgia Dayton: I know. I think in the summer, because I did it for Gigi and six friends. I think she was allowed. Yeah, six friends. It was double, maybe triple that. Exactly. Yeah.

5:35Melissa Suffield: So yeah. That's really good. That was good, I thought. That was fun. And then obviously we had to get, I broke my sobriety.

5:41Georgia Dayton: Oh, did you? Oh, here we go. 28 days, guys.

5:44Melissa Suffield: I got shit-faced on Friday night, though.

5:47Georgia Dayton: It was your birthday.

5:49Melissa Suffield: Right. Thank you so much for that. i knew you i knew you'd say that no i was i wasn't that bad i just had a couple but like i'm i'm back on the sober wagon now how are you i'm good i'm good i'm um we've had a lovely

6:03Georgia Dayton: chilled weekend just like we're hibernating i think i said this before we're saying no to plans unless they're pre 9 p.m really or we can be home at nine yes in the winter you it's not winter yet it's just turned autumn today yeah i just like yeah i'm just into that now that's it now is it yeah that's it not going out at night like not at all um but yeah i had a nice weekend with my friends last weekend i went to estelle manor it was lovely stop going there it's so bougie it's

6:35Melissa Suffield: so bougie who are these friends you're going with anyway my friends from school why can't i come

6:40Georgia Dayton: because you're not invited no i'm joking she's so rude to me guys all the time no i've just had a really like lovely like couple of weeks just like chilled yeah apart from going to see schools and that is like that's why it needs to be chilled because it is a complete this this actually struck quite a chord on instagram yes because people people are really

7:02Melissa Suffield: feeling what you're feeling about the secondary school system yeah and i think the primary schools

7:06Georgia Dayton: as well and like teachers messaging as well so it's not and it's one of those where you you wonder if it's just you thinking it and then you realize it's not and also I don't have like strong opinions like definitely do you know what I mean I'm not like I don't like second it's not that at all it's just right now that was my like gut feeling when I was going to look at schools was that I just didn't really feel it like I just was a bit indifferent yeah I just felt quite like what am I looking at like I don't really understand all this a lot of it yeah I don't know I think if anyone's listening like going to look around a school and you you kind of take a step back and look at what they're learning and stuff you can feel quite confused with like what is right I don't know like I don't know right for your child yeah exactly okay um and I think yeah a lot of people when I mentioned it on Instagram said that they felt the same that they felt quite confused by you know whether you should pick a good school on paper or you pick a school that like you think your child would like it's such an interesting topic yeah i i very much remember going to taking my common entrance failing yeah it's common entrance 11 plus no 13 so you take it my experience

8:25Melissa Suffield: was going to prep school and then leaving prep school going to switzerland because i got that scholarship sports scholarship yeah going there for a year and then coming back and going into secondary school but at 13 so from year nine right yeah yeah and I very much remember my parents going right you've got a place here and you've also got a place here this one's so much more suited to you it's really sporty but none of your mates are there but you're going to excel in your sports you should go there and I went nah not interested I want to go where all my mates have gone and they were like okay and I'm like oh that was easy and I totally went to the wrong school completely messed up dropped all my sport because there wasn't any and actually I think there should have been more feeling around what was right for me without me like I'm not blaming my parents but I do think you're right with that question what is right for your child yeah what does your child need yeah exactly rather than looking at like a good school on paper yeah because I think as well

9:14Georgia Dayton: and I don't know if anyone listening again will relate to this there's so much noise like you know parents at school will be like oh that's such a good school you're gonna love it it's such it's brilliant and then you go there thinking great I'm gonna love it and then you're you look around and you're like what what should I be loving like I don't really know anyway I feel very confused

9:37Melissa Suffield: I feel that off you George let's keep talking about it yeah if anyone listening wants to send

9:41Georgia Dayton: their opinion in yeah you're welcoming yeah exactly and like actually we went into it with today's guest a little bit not I mean we didn't mean to I think we were going to talk about body confidence and then it took a turn and we actually talked quite a lot about school and education in general and like how we feel about it and she's definitely got strong views but I love like hearing all the different views because it's like taking little bits of information from everyone so you

10:07Melissa Suffield: can form your own opinion I guess I feel like all of our opinions were valid in this conversation actually yeah yeah I really respect the way she was um you know the way she was using her experiences from her childhood yeah and very and and the way she was raised by her mum and very much driving those um experiences forward with her own son and yeah i thought it was fascinating i really enjoyed it actually george who are we talking to we are chatting to melissa suffield joining us on the podcast today child actress turned body confidence advocate part-time single mum because her partner works away a lot she shows up on instagram for the real talk and how to be an advocate for yourself apparently no topic is off the table we've just been told we can't wait mum to four-year-old River, it's Melissa Suffield.

10:50Melissa Suffield: Hello.

10:51Georgia Dayton: Hello. Now, we can't say child actress without asking about that. Yep, go for it. So, for anyone who's intrigued by that, just tell us what show you were on.

11:02Zoe Hardman: So, from the ages of 11 to 17, I was in EastEnders. I played Lucy Bill.

11:06Melissa Suffield: I mean, for me, this is such a big moment because I loved EastEnders when I was a kid. Although, I'm probably, what are you, 32 now? 32, so I'm 10 years older than you. but Lucy Beale, I mean, I grew up watching you. I feel like you grew up on my screens in front of me.

11:21Zoe Hardman: Yeah, she was an absolute savage. She was a savage.

11:24Melissa Suffield: She was really a savage, yeah. What was it like being in such an iconic show from such an early age?

11:28Zoe Hardman: It was definitely really fun, but it's very, very busy. And specifically for like the last year that I was there, kind of once you turn 16, you're then an adult. So you don't have a chaperone. You can work adult hours. And it was literally like 12 hours a day, five, sometimes six days a week. And it's like, ah. So it's definitely a lot. For sure. I'm not sure I'd have it in me now. I don't think I've got that work anymore, frankly. You'd never go back on the show? No. I don't even think I'd go back on any show at this point. I'm run ragged. Just like the life.

12:01Georgia Dayton: But what was it like as a child? You know, like between those such impressionable years as well.

12:05Zoe Hardman: For sure. I've always been a little bit older than my years. So I didn't feel out of place being surrounded by adults and stuff. I was pretty happy with that. And I liked having a lot of time off of school. yeah and I'm quite again I've got like that good work ethic so I didn't let it affect school at all and came out with still really decent GCSEs and stuff like that so it was just about finding out what was important to me and making sure that those kinds of things were always taken care of

12:29Melissa Suffield: so they were I mean I think you know as mums ourselves if you feel the same but you you really want to protect and look after your kids and your young people in your life do you think that you were protected during those years and do you feel like that was a good start to kind of becoming

12:46Zoe Hardman: an adult yeah for sure I um my mum or my grandmother was always my chaperone like I never had like a hired chaperone like a lot of children do um because it was just really important to have that connectivity with someone that I could fully trust like a family member um but also like I don't think my mum's too worried about me I'm always pretty good at speaking up for myself um and I'm not gonna like sit back I'm not meek and I never really have been so it was she's always had quite a not like relaxed approach but she's always known that I can take care of myself and she'll step in as and when needed to rather than the other way around step in first and wait for me to prove myself it's it's the other way around and it is how I try and be with now with my son as well because I do think she set me up pretty well and there was definitely an environment that I was able to thrive in yeah not for everyone but for me it really worked yeah and if River

13:37Georgia Dayton: um grew up and wanted to go on a tv show what would you say well we did actually sign him up

13:44Zoe Hardman: when he was like born because he's always been just like pretty cute really and i i did modeling and acting from the age of like six months so i knew the game and like knew from my mum exactly what it'd be like so i was like we've literally got nothing to lose then lockdown happened obviously nothing really happened um and then he like turned into the person he is now and i just wouldn't ever inflict that on a studio I just would never do it like I love the bones of that kid but he is wild and he's such the thing is he's such a good like performer he's such a showy offy kind of boy and he's really not shy at all like he was dancing in the street yesterday to a drum band everyone's around clapping him and he just loves it but he has his strong ideas about what would be great and what would be bad and I really think a director would struggle with him Rivers the director that's the rule yeah River's the director of the world he really is I love how you show up on Instagram I

14:41Melissa Suffield: think the way that you kind of put yourself out there and even coming into the studio today you can see that you are a confident person yeah has it has it always been that way for you or do you

14:51Zoe Hardman: think that motherhood led you down that that road I think I've definitely had confidence um whether I would have called myself like a confident person but obviously if you grow up with kind of a a strong influence from performing arts it's gonna just come it is just kind of gonna come um you know I after I left EastEnders I went into teaching performing arts and stuff and you would get a child come to you at the age of like you know four five six seven they're meek and they don't really want to do much and they're at the back and they're half kind of doing the steps and after maybe like a year with you and they've done a show and an exam they're a different child and you know that that's coming from you rather than what they're doing at school I'm such an advocate for anyone with children especially children who maybe struggle with confidence is to pop them into something like that because while they might feel really out of place at first and it might negatively affect their confidence or look like it is at first it will start paying off down the line so I think having that performing arts influence on me young I did ballet I did drama I did other forms of dance as well it it just kind of gave me the confidence to put myself out there over and over again because I've already been doing it on a week by week basis

16:05Georgia Dayton: that's really interesting because I always think that I went to stage school as my secondary school and I always found that although I didn't want to dance or act or sing anymore it gave me that sort of internal like yeah confidence that I could handle rejection and I think that's what so many people don't think think of and also that I don't really feel like happens a lot in school it's more like your extracurricular stuff that teaches you the the rejection exactly and so if you've got a child who you know you'd think super shy and you wouldn't immediately think oh yeah they should go and do something like that actually it can be like the best thing a hundred percent and you don't

16:46Zoe Hardman: even have to be good at it no that's the best thing about it you can actually just be a bit shit and it doesn't matter because you're still putting yourself out there yeah everyone's got a place on the stage it doesn't matter whether you're the lead or a tree like everyone's got a place and it's the most inclusive place that you can be it's not always about finding fame glory money it can just be about having fun and I think that is something that we miss so much like I mean I could wang on about education and the state of that in this country for pretty much the whole podcast so I won't you'd have you'd have a good sounding book yeah I can't bear it that's just the state of it all in general but we're really focused on the wrong things we're focused on the wrong things like we should be putting more into the arts because you will find that by doing so they will gain those like academic skills back to like the critical thinking that comes from putting on a production is something we just don't teach anymore it's something that a lot of adults can't even do any well with chat gpt like critical thinking is out the window so it's something that i always try and instill in river at home at least because i don't know if he's getting it at school so we are doing it at least at home constantly problem solving in creative ways you know he loves his academic subjects so we do a lot of that at home and he's like storming ahead with that but we can't let the other stuff kind of go by the wayside i say the same with sport yeah i get

18:08Melissa Suffield: really upset when i see that they have two lots of half an hour sport as part of their monday to the Friday school timetable because we're big advocates for sport in the house and being outside and all the solo sports, but all the team sports as well. So you're like, it's all of that, isn't it?

18:24Georgia Dayton: And that's critical thinking because that's like thinking under pressure.

18:27Zoe Hardman: These skills are gonna probably be more relevant than some of the crap I learned in maths that I have not used again since. It does depend on what you want to go in and do. Of course, if you wanna be a mathematician, focus on maths. yeah you don't want to be a mathematician focus on what you really want to be doing and just have that be something where you know how to like do your taxes for example that's the

18:49Melissa Suffield: maths i need i mean it'd be really interesting what would be the dream setup for you then if we if we let's talk about this let's dive into it because it's definitely so many more people are homeschooling now yeah i was so desperate too but my health completely stopped me it was really

19:01Zoe Hardman: annoying i just wasn't well enough to homeschool but otherwise that was absolutely what i was going to be doing really yeah it's really annoying just the the health situation for me just when it kind of first happened it was just before he started reception like it was six months before that time so it was kind of the time I would have had to have been making the decision um but just having constant nausea like pretty much every single day you've got something called SIBO SIBO yeah sucks I got food poisoning or a stomach bug you can never really be sure which and I've just felt nausea every single day of my life ever since uh 21 months yeah uh so I'm like 16 000 pounds deep into tests and supplements and medication like it's a whole thing and i'm hoping to get through it i'm a lot better now than i was at the start but we'll see how much of a lifestyle change it has to be to like fully get through it yeah it just really impacted like me then sending him to school was like a total reprieve that was when i could then go to like appointments for osteopath and acupuncture and stuff and it was when i could take time to rest because it's really important so yeah couldn't homeschool for that reason but really

20:05Georgia Dayton: wanted to how would you have seen homeschooling because i think everyone has like different like views because there's no set honestly yeah however i wanted it right okay we're

20:14Zoe Hardman: we're the kind of family where we don't have like a family calendar put it that way like it's just me and river a lot of times i really don't need to like i can just go we're gonna do this today and he'll go okay cool like that's kind of the relationship that we have um when he's at school ironically is when i need to set more of a schedule at home because he'll come home and go can I play the switch and I'm like no now we need now we have a schedule you come home you do some like bits of homework or phonics or maths or whatever with me then you do some independent play then you can play the switch into like and I never wanted to be that mum but ever but now I literally have to be because I have to manage this child's like overstimulated nature we're pretty sure it's got ADHD we are literally just waiting for him to turn six so that we can like begin that process um so that's kind of not who I really wanted to be but it is who I'm finding I'm having to be and I think it's because I'm stuck in this system that I don't massively want to be in and we're making the best of this situation but it's a bit sticky are you doing stuff outside of school

21:14Melissa Suffield: because you don't necessarily see the whole picture of what he's getting up to at school so you're wanting to make sure that that's what he's getting as an extra in reception we had like

21:25Zoe Hardman: there was lots of communication with the classroom so we had a lot of information about you know we did this today and this so then I could then take that information and supplement it at home because he is really academic like he is the kind of kid who would genuinely rather sit down and do like a worksheet than like go and play he's like weird kid um so that's kind of what we gear a lot of the fun towards like he does genuinely love that and he loves the intrinsic reward of like getting x amount of questions right and you know he gets a bit upset if he doesn't so you know just leading by his example really on that so it's kind of we're kind of wanting to mirror what the school are doing while also advancing him because he is ready for it um and like he went back to year one this week and it was just I was really hoping they'd move on to the next phase of phonics because we're already halfway through at home and I said what did you do today and he went I was like you did that in like the first three weeks of reception I was like I know that everyone else has to maybe catch up and refresh but also we have to meet every child where they are you know and at the moment he's potentially suffering because of that and I'm like oh no so that's why we supplement at home so he's kind of doing homeschool as well anyway we'll be right back after this short break

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24:49Georgia Dayton: Youth mental health is a complex challenge that requires comprehensive solutions. We must strengthen after-school programs. We must make digital literacy tools available in our schools. We must work with mental health professionals to support children. And we must empower mentors, educators, and parents to keep kids happy. Learn more about our commitment to finding lasting solutions at empowerourfuturecoalition.com slash solutions. Paid for by the Coalition to Empower Our Future.

25:22Melissa Suffield: welcome back to this episode of made by mamas now where were we it's really interesting this whole topic around schools because if you you know we talked we mentioned this quite a few times but take different um cultures um different countries in terms of the way that they do their schooling so we're obviously going off the way that we that we know and very original that we've been to but like in scandinavia the reading doesn't begin until they're eight now posing to you is there a danger that we're trying to start things too early like he's five our kids are so young still

25:54Zoe Hardman: as well so it's like what's the hurry yeah i definitely think so as well and i kind of always had that in the back of my mind but he was so ready to read like we've always read with him and he would just start picking up the letters and start picking up the words and i was like you're doing it for fun so we have to kind of meet you with that and go with you and he now he's the kind of child who will take a book off of his shelf and sit down and read it and I'm like I used to read for fun when I was like six and seven so then kind of by that merit I'm like thinking well maybe they should start reading a little bit sooner than eight because there was so much fun to be had for me I was the kind of kid who would pick up you know the latest novel that came out under the covers four hours don't speak to me until I finished it and that was young that I was doing that so I think maybe there's an argument for either way where it's maybe it

26:45Georgia Dayton: doesn't have to be that rigid either yeah maybe actually it's just about meeting every child

26:49Zoe Hardman: where they're at and I think because school is so rigid we can't do that yeah because we're all about either they've met the bracket or they're exceeding the bracket or they're behind the bracket and it's just and I get it I get that we have to standardize but really we really don't this much like year two sats why like why are we doing it it's just it's just to see collectively how everyone's doing and it's like but there's no nuance there's no nuance with anything anymore it feels like there's no nuance with weighing children when they go in reception either they're overweight or they're underweight there's no nuance we haven't really taken into account how active this child is like it's so many little things like that happens with that actually when they

27:30Georgia Dayton: because i i've i remember that happening but why did why did they do that again so it's about data

27:35Zoe Hardman: collection and statistics kind of more than anything but supposedly it's also about identifying any children that are too overweight or too underweight and giving them the support so i understand it i don't think we need it and i think it stands to do harm more than it stands to do good so i think it's the kind of thing that is potentially a little bit of a waste of resources you should spend that money somewhere else you should start school melissa i'd never take anyone in though i'd never take anyone in because i did vow after teaching for so many years that actually after having my own child i didn't want to see anyone else's child ever ever again do you know

28:10Georgia Dayton: what i think that though i look at some teachers who have got young children and i think what are doing here noise that's in a classroom like if you ever go and sit and do those sessions you know where you can sit and see what they do and you come out and your head is like buzzing and then luckily your child is still at school so you can go go home to like a quiet room and think about what's just happened and then I think about those teachers who have heads buzzing all day and then

28:38Zoe Hardman: they go home to more I just that's my mum she's a teacher she's a reception teacher she's been an absolute font of knowledge to me last year she's a reception teacher at private school and I'd be like right Riff's doing this do you think this is correct like do you think this is right do you think we're learning the right stuff because it's obviously very different education that you get at private school and a state school so it was very interesting having these kind of like ideas to bounce off of and if I had a problem kind of running it through my mum being like what do you

29:04Melissa Suffield: what do you think I should say here and oh yeah it's been proper handy we constantly have that conversation between the two of us because um George is in Essex and I'm in Surrey and like the level of homework for example yeah like we got a message saying that they'll start getting maths homework sometime after half term that they've got spelling says I mean there's none there's no homework so for me I'm like oh this is great because that means I don't have to do it no um they're getting it all at school and actually when they come out of school then they can just free play and go play sport or whatever it is but actually then I started to think god everyone else is doing homework why aren't we why are we not getting it we want one of one bit of homework

29:41Zoe Hardman: a week yeah she's nine now yeah it's I don't know every school does it differently I was um just before I had River I was a TA at local school and they didn't have any homework except for before every like half term like holiday or Easter or whatever so every six weeks they'd have like a project yeah they had to complete in the holiday and I was like that's great like that's a nice thing to do it's kind of like something to work towards except they didn't work towards it they just got given it at the holiday I'm like no no the holiday I don't want any homework that's the one time I don't want homework what if I go on holiday yeah I'm not taking a project away with me guys so it would have been better to almost have a little piece every weekend and then build your project I don't know like it's just little things like tweaks but they are literally different at every school and that's the problem it's so standardized and you must hit this and you must do this and they must be able to do this and reception readiness and blah blah blah but we're all doing different stuff anyway there isn't actually any standardization yeah and I think

30:41Georgia Dayton: as well it's not even like what happened what's right for your family I've got two like really different children and with my son he was quite you know quite academic quite early like we he has a tutor like to just help him like explore that bit sort of like challenge him a bit yeah either didn't want him to get bored and that's fine but I don't I from the start I used to say to school listen I'm not going to do the homework because number one he doesn't want to do it like because he wants to go and play football and he wants to go to golf and he wants to do this and right now if he's doing all right like to your levels at school I'd rather focus on like the stuff he's not doing at school at home and they were fine with it totally fine and then with my daughter she's not very academic she struggles with reading writing all of it again she has a tutor so that I know I don't know how to teach her so that's what they're doing but I know that I have to read with her because otherwise her confidence will be knocked when she gets to school and so I think it's okay to do that like I think it's okay to say to school listen like I'm not the mum who just can't be asked um but I'm not I just know that it's like it's not

31:53Zoe Hardman: it's just not gonna work I know I'm a blemish on whichever poor teacher has me I'm at the door every day going hi something else or I'm sending an email like I'm constantly up in their grill um yeah i am not not about like telling them off it's more about like updating them on what we're up to because i just i just really hate the idea of him not being pushed like and not pushed to the point of breaking but pushed to the point of feeling challenged i'm really keen on that because i think that's where creatively we do our best work i think when you're being challenged yeah i think when you're challenged and not like giving you work that's too hard just giving you a new way of looking at it but when like if everyone's recapping he doesn't have to recap just give

32:36Melissa Suffield: him a little bit something like different they've got a class of 30 kids they're i mean i think our teachers i i literally i hands down could never do that job they've got a class of 30 kids controversial statement perhaps are we as parents just not becoming way too uh intrinsically trenched in what they're doing yeah possibly a little bit like back in the day i'm not suggesting we do what back in the day was but like just let them get on with it they're trained to do it they're the experts we're not okay obviously we want to be involved in our kids lives but fundamentally did you come out of your school going oh my god what a fucking disaster that was

33:13Zoe Hardman: i think potentially our school was different back in the day because i think we weren't as like mollycoddled by government in terms of schools were allowed to crack on a bit and i remember i was a gifted child and I'm putting that in those air quotes because I can't fucking bear the statement but I was ahead I was kind of top set kind of material and I was given other stuff to do yeah and my mum also as a teacher having raised a child like that also gives those children that stuff to do and it's not that hard to do it's just giving them something from year one rather than reception or whatever it may be it's that kind of thing but we also don't really necessarily do it for the kids who are behind either because they can't split themselves that many ways that's the problem i think children are coming into school or coming into a year group so far removed from each other like i think i was literally watching education yorkshire like two days ago and they had a poor boy who has entered year seven and they had a primary school teacher coming in to get some of those children up to scratch because they just they're the reading age of like five six or seven so children are just so separate yeah and i i don't really know i honestly I don't know what the answer is I would love to say there's probably about 10 different reasons I think screens probably don't help I mean I love them don't get me wrong I'm a big fan of a screen at home at times but I think that probably doesn't help I think not getting outside enough doesn't help I don't think doing enough performing arts like I think that doesn't help there are just so many things that aren't academic that I think would really help academia but we're just not exploring them because you know for whatever reason we don't have the time we don't have the money we don't have the resources teachers certainly don't have the time the money all the resources to do it so they need the support yeah I was gonna say we're all sitting here like

34:58Georgia Dayton: in a very privileged like position where we're like you know outside of school I make sure that he goes to football and they do golf and they do dancing and they do gymnastics but realistically not everyone can do it that isn't yeah not everyone can do that so take that away

35:13Melissa Suffield: then what we're talking about here is 10 minutes of reading at the end of the day now I've definitely been that parent sometimes where I've just written in the reading record and haven't done it don't get cross with me school if you're listening got my fingers crossed um but I've made a real really I've dug really really deep to find that 10 minutes of energy at the end of the day when I'm absolutely wrecked to read with Kit and when I've done that and we've given it a year his reading has guess what come on in leaps and bounds and I think I know I'm not this I listen I'm not here to judge because I've done both sides of it but it's really it's that that's not about

35:43Georgia Dayton: financial no that's not that's not no no no we send the extracurricular stuff that may not and

35:48Zoe Hardman: the thing is river we don't actually do that many extracurriculars i was the kind of child who had about four extra extracurriculars every single day like we'd leave brownies 10 minutes early to get to swimming five minutes late that kind of thing like i played every musical instrument going i did every club that was just who we were as kids and i'm grateful for that now because it has given me a that confidence but b also just the ability to kind of like give anything a go and i'm not frightened of just giving something a go because I wasn't good at all of it I was really shit at guitar like I was really bad at it recorder I was all right but piano I was great guitar I was shit like you and I think you have to try stuff to find what you enjoy as well I think that's an important part and a good lesson for children to learn as well that actually you do have to stick with something for a little bit but it's okay to then go actually I wasn't great at that let's try something new um the river doesn't do that because we don't have really any clubs on offer near us so I really wanted him to be that kid and it just hasn't worked out that way but he does play the drums because the drum teacher lives like five doors down from us brilliant we could not love that more have I tried 10 second walk to the activity love so good um so he does play the drums and that is his extracurricular and again you can see him coming on leaps and bounds with that and it helps his maths because he's counting and he's counting in funny and weird ways and he's counting one and two and three and and applying that then to how that works out in a mathematical situation and so he's now doing about percentages because he can work out halves and fractions and it's all of these little things you don't really realize the value that they're having but you don't necessarily have to go to a club to find the ways to work that in there is I think sometimes a little bit of we like as mums we feel a lot of pressure to do it all to do it all to be it all to see it all to teach it all but I think sometimes we because we're so frazzled we're not necessarily looking into those little alternative ways of doing something and i think there are alternative ways of doing stuff where actually there becomes a lesson in there as well the kids

37:43Georgia Dayton: don't even really realize they've learned anything but they have and it's those little things like

37:48Zoe Hardman: you'll think you're asking people to look outside the box exactly saying but i think we are getting to a place in society where looking outside of the box is becoming something that we actually can't do anymore like it's just we're not doing it because we are so focused on the box and we're so focused on it's all about hacks isn't it it's all about hacking your life to make it easier hacking your life to do this five minutes quicker make your life this bit easier lay the uniform out the night before so it's easier in the morning everything's ease speed quick that is a good hack though such a good hack don't get me wrong yeah such a good hack but everything that i see is about hacking your life to make it easier but actually sometimes when our lives are a little bit harder that's when we learn that is when we do the learning so that's why I'm constantly trying to push River to learn something new in a way that he's not being like bothered or upset or constantly then being challenged and stuff but just a new creative way of doing something just that's where the lessons are and it doesn't have to be a drum lesson or a football club it just has to be about thinking about things in a different way yeah exactly just doing something that's a little bit hard exactly it's okay to do things that are hard and it's all right to be really bad at them that is something that river really really struggles with if he's not immediately good at something he does not want to do it again so that is actually the main lesson that i'm teaching him when i do this is i'm teaching him the lesson of no you have to try again if you want to get better and he does want to get better there's something about our kid there's

39:23Melissa Suffield: something about our kids in 2025 though where they try something once they're not obviously great at it and then my kids just get furious yeah they're absolutely they don't want to do it no i'm not good at it so and i'm like dude on what planet do you think that you're going to be good at tennis after doing it for one hour literally you know like come on there's there isn't there isn't huge amounts of resilience and that has something that we have been fighting them on and fight them and actually that's now starting to click but it's taken a long time yeah i think

39:50Zoe Hardman: everything is easy right yeah everything's so easy that's what i'm saying like yeah i see it even on instagram like i pride myself and try again to challenge myself constantly creatively like at the moment i'm doing a series of where i've just changed all the lyrics to a load of songs and i've just made them incredibly sweary and like if you were directing this song towards someone like a dickhead that you don't like so change the lyrics and record that because not really for anyone else although people do enjoy it it's more for me it's just something that i can do creatively because i i'm not one of these people who like can journal and like meditate and have a bubble bath and i call that self-care that is deeply annoying and time wasting to me like i hate all of that so much like literally like if someone goes to me just do some yoga i really cheer you out and i'm like it will literally send me into a white hot rage i don't know what it is about my body but doesn't want to do it if I want to relax I have to do something like do something with my hands do something with my brain like I have to write something or make something it has to be like

40:53Georgia Dayton: your brain switches off when you're doing something I think maybe but I think I'm

40:56Zoe Hardman: happiest when my brain's absolutely going mad you're an extrovert who needs to be completely stimulated constantly 100 % I need to be constantly doing something and I like to feel like there was like a reward at the end of it like when I've made something or written something I can see the product of my work and it wasn't time wasted or anything like that like I'm really bad with the concept of wasted time I'm really like not okay with it that's on me though I'm aware that I'm weird on that one um but like yeah so on Instagram I'm kind of constantly doing that finding creative ways to do stuff but then how many people are out there getting chat GPT to write their captions well that's what I mean come on guys like five lines you can pluck that out of your ass of course everywhere and once you know how to spot it yeah you'll be amazed if you see two dashes together with a space on either side you got them because no one does that not in this country the only

41:46Melissa Suffield: thing i'm using chat for at the moment is um how long should a 16 week old puppy spend in her

41:52Zoe Hardman: well that's the thing i think you know it has its place it has its place chat gpt for sure it definitely does um you know if we take out kind of the environmental impact of it if we take that out of the equation I have used it for medical stuff because it's really handy the amount of personal research that I've had to do into what's wrong with me is wild because the NHS just has basically no response to SIBO whatsoever so there's no like standardized literature so I'm having to read research research research and they're really difficult for to get your head around I think even if you are a doctor let alone for me so actually being able to find something that can collate all of that information for me and put it into my own kind of accessibility is really handy.

42:36Zoe Hardman: I do not need it to write my captions.

42:38Melissa Suffield: No.

42:39Zoe Hardman: And I shouldn't need it to write my captions. And I think if you do need it to write your captions, you're maybe not creative enough to be a content creator. Like the clues in the name, you know, it's that kind of thing. And I think we have lost that ability to just like think creatively. We'll be right back after this short break.

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45:34Melissa Suffield: Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? so we were discussing this earlier on about schools and um ai and the way that jobs are going and certain jobs that potentially might not be around in say 10 years time because of the rise of ai um so focusing on things like maths and you know the sciences and things like that are they is are they even necessary are our children going to be going into jobs that require maths i'm just posing that question potentially about accountants yeah i know yeah i

46:07Zoe Hardman: I mean I think about it often I kind of think you know how important was it that I did all three sciences split like how how important was that actually that I had to do all three like that I had to do biology chemistry and physics and I had to spend quite a length of time on them all week but I could only do music one hour yeah like how crucial was that how much more time since leaving school have I spent on music than I have on science yeah but then in the same breath it is important to know about science because that is like how the world works so actually that's really important to me on a way that maybe i don't necessarily think about it you know maybe it's just maybe it's just the difference between knowing there's a hill in front of me that's going to be harder to walk at so i i'll get my water out that's maybe where the science and the mass comes into it so i think there's a place for it i don't think there's quite the place for it that the school's put on it and I really don't need to know like quadratic equations but I really did need to know how to do my taxes because I'm currently paying someone to do them for me and have been since I was 16.

47:11Zoe Hardman: I'd really love to take that back and save myself a bit of cash.

47:15Melissa Suffield: Bunsen burner don't even get me started on a Bunsen burner. I mean I'll be honest I love a

47:19Zoe Hardman: Bunsen burner mainly because if you throw bits of metal into it it will change color and that really annoy a teacher and that was a really fun thing to do. That was a really fun way to piss

47:29Georgia Dayton: someone off oh yeah I know I can tell you only when I was there I was almost never there so

47:35Melissa Suffield: why do you think the content that you're creating on Instagram in terms of you know promoting this body confidence and you know you talk a lot about bloated tummies and how to dress your your time and all that kind of stuff why do you think it's it's hitting the way that it is with women because I don't think that anyone really thinks about it until it's a problem for them

47:54Zoe Hardman: and then you go shit like I actually can't wear most of my wardrobe comfortably now like and that is a real like pain point and I think because it is a pain point for so many women they I think know as well that they can trust what I say because there's a lot of people out there that say you know bloat friendly but it's a buzzword yeah and I'm like it's 100 % cotton pair of jeans with no stretch babe there's no bloat friendly nature about that if I wore that and got bloated I'd have to take them off in the street like that's the difference between how bloated I can get it's not I undoing them may not even cut the mustard I may have to walk around in my underwear like so I think because that is the truth and I'm telling it in a truthful way I think that's maybe why because it's it's easy to lie yeah on the internet like I'll say it as it is it's easy to lie it's easy to just say it but it's not easy to show up and prove it um it's not easy to like live it so i think there's kind of the difference when you can see someone that's living it and someone that's not living it what sort of concerns of women

49:05Melissa Suffield: coming to you with what are the what are the conversations and lots of women experiencing what you're going through yeah loads um i get messages every single day i think i've got SIBO

49:13Zoe Hardman: as well so what do i do because again they'll go they go i went to my gp and they didn't even know what it was I'm like oh my god it's like you can't be getting your medical advice off of Instagram especially when I'm not a medical person but in the same breath no one's helping you so I can then at least give them the resources of where they can possibly go and find some more help and I'm like look I'm not a doctor so I'm not going to tell you to take this supplement but I'll tell you to go and ask for this blood test yeah because I know from experience that that can help you get a diagnosis so it's that kind of thing ask your GP this this this don't take this this this because again there's so much of that so much of it and again it's just not like a standardized thing that is a thing where standardization is really important and again also where nuance is really important yeah because i have been recommended lots of things by lots of doctors that haven't helped me at all so there is nuance and personal yeah but it might help someone else might help someone else absolutely so we just have to kind of obviously take everything with a bit of a pinch of salt whenever we hear it and apply it to ourselves and this is where that critical thinking comes in really handy again because the more we're able to critically think the more we're able to go okay i've heard this piece of information and this and this and this so i'm going to pop that together and put it in my own mixing bowl and come out with a recipe for me but we don't do that

50:29Georgia Dayton: anymore we take things so literally try this it didn't work yeah yeah why don't i say mate i look at um you know instagrams like yours for instance that have got you know a strong message and i think it's more about people feeling connect like together you know like you know people who follow your page will relate to you in some way and they feel like part of something yeah right because i don't i mean maybe i thought because i work in this space like i don't believe everything i see on instagram and i don't take what everyone says as gospel what you'd be surprised how many aren't like that but i like there's certain people that i follow because i feel like connected to in some way or that I relate to in some way or that I take something from and I think that's the thing isn't it like that's what's so good about the internet and social media and all this is that it fills gaps that we wouldn't be able to fill in a hundred percent I love social media I think

51:25Zoe Hardman: it is doing a lot of good for the world I've tried really hard to build like a community yeah on my page and that's always been really important to me I try and reply to as many people as possible obviously I can't always because sometimes it'll be like an influx like today I asked someone how'd you get a stain out of a jumper oh yeah 600 messages later I'm like ah I can't actually reply to any of you because I've gone mad um so in those messages obviously I can't I do try and keep it as a community kind of experience because I think that's what it's missing but I do obviously think that like social media has obviously given a mouthpiece for a lot of idiots as well and that is a problem that is a lot of a problem when you know now everyone with an opinion also has a platform because i don't actually need to hear it that's exactly you do

52:11Melissa Suffield: not have to follow me babes that would be a good piece of advice wouldn't it in terms of if you see somebody that's draining your energy or that you disagree they're just unfollow as a hundred percent

52:19Zoe Hardman: but you'd be gobsmacked how many people love a hate follow oh they just love a hate follow um They really do. And I get it. I get it. This is a pretty sad state of affairs, this world at the moment. And I hate follow. It might even make you feel better in a weird, twisted kind of way. But like, don't do it to yourself, love. Yeah, just don't.

52:37Melissa Suffield: It's when I got that message last week going, why are you such an old, ugly piece of shit? Oh! Did I tell you about this?

52:43Georgia Dayton: That was me.

52:44Melissa Suffield: And Georgia's face just popped up and she went, got ya. No, and why are you such an ugly, old piece of shit? And then something rude about Dozza. And I just thought, so I just went for the troll I never normally go for the troll but I thought I'm ready for this roll my sleeves up and it was just it was just a hate it was just hate and then I just thought I'm just gonna block you why are you even looking at my shit stuff on my shit I literally just had something

53:08Zoe Hardman: go a bit viral on Facebook and the amount of men it was one of these silly songs and the amount of men who I think thought I was personally singing towards them it's just absolutely insane the amount of abuse that I've had in just the last 24 hours is wild like one person left on a different reel just went, why are you such an ugly C-U-N-T? And I just, I don't, again, normally I don't reply and I just literally went, I was like, literally who the fuck even asked you? Like, go away. You don't even follow me. Literally piss off. Like, I just never understand that mentality. But there's, again, the critical thinking, building kind of a generation of like morons.

53:45Zoe Hardman: They don't realize that that has been said now and that has been said to a person. They don't know what happens from that point. I'm pretty hardy and I have been doing this for a long time, like longer than just Instagram. I've had the best training in dealing with trolls ever. I was on a soap and I was a teenager on a soap. So I've had really good training at this. I'm incredibly good at dealing with it now. But not everyone is. A lot of people who are kind of getting big on Instagram, this is like very quick introduction into like some level of fame with no real warning of how that can affect them.

54:21Zoe Hardman: We miss that.

54:23Georgia Dayton: now i think but it's wild that people say horrible things to other people that they don't know but does that like that makes them feel better like it's the whole thing of like you know a football match on a tuesday night for instance you'll see in the crowd like men in suits right so they've come from like an office job they might potentially have like a lot of power and they're shouting abuse at someone they don't know it's honestly i was like gladi it's all where are you getting off i think i honestly think there's like an internal rage

54:54Zoe Hardman: and it's an outlet yeah i think all of this rage has to have somewhere to go and it just gets directed at someone and it's instagram facebook whatever is an easy one because it's feels like a victimless crime because you don't know that person they might even be real they might be ai for all you know so it feels like a victimless crime but it isn't because there is someone I'm reading that on the other end. Like I say, I think it's borderline hilarious, but someone else might not feel like that. I don't feel like that. Yeah, exactly. I'm way too sensitive.

55:24Melissa Suffield: I'm a Scorpio. There you go. I'm a people pleaser. I'm a Capricorn. I'm a lover. So I find it really, really hard to read it. And I also, but I also won't shy away from it. Like I very much feel we're in a position where we should be shaming. Oh, I shine a light on it often. And I will screenshot, and I went for it this time and found out this person worked for a charity. Yeah. And I was like, I've got to get in touch with the charity and say like, this is one of your members of stuff. unless they've catfished that person and they're not actually who they say they are. But the whole thing is just, you know, they think they can get away with it.

55:52Melissa Suffield: And I think that's right with that point. It's the victimless crime. It's like, no, no, there's a face behind that. Yeah, that is somebody.

55:57Zoe Hardman: But it feels so, because it's so impersonal. Like often you don't even follow the person. They just popped up and you're like, oh, you're a stupid bitch. I've read that. Like, do you know what I mean? Like I read that. It's like what's up on your phone, isn't it? It's like coming through. That's how it feels. Exactly. And it's instant. It's there. you don't come to it later it buzzes someone has put themselves in your pocket to tell you what they think of you and that's weird like it's just slagging people off around your kitchen table with a cup of tea that's exactly it we used to do we used to do this someone would come on the x-factor and go god they're shit aren't they but now we at them and tell them actually imagine yeah literally imagine doing that i think it's just really weird behavior like i can't imagine ever doing that to someone else no of course not really weird but i'll happily slag people off to my other half because that's normal yeah yeah like that's that's fine that's venting i would never take it to their door no because that's really weird behavior yeah exactly i just think you're all a bit shit but thank you for knocking do you know what i mean like it is that energy

57:01Melissa Suffield: and i'm just like why guys very weird well no i love the fact that you're standing out against it we just got hope and pray that our kids are always protected from that level of you know we can handle it to a degree because we're older you better than me but i think when it comes at the kids 100 % that's a conversation for another time absolutely we need to wrap up the podcast yeah well I told you I chat that was amazing thank you so much thanks for having me Melissa everyone yay thanks for having me

57:26Georgia Dayton: well that definitely took a turn did didn't it turn for the good yeah yeah and it just gets you thinking more doesn't it because I think everyone is so different and I think that's the beauty and like the conversations is that everyone has completely different opinions and like you say you said before they're all valid and it's just about finding like what feels right for you I mean I'm still trying to work out what feels right for me in terms of like education and school and stuff

57:55Melissa Suffield: because I'm very confused but yeah I never even took the time to really think about how I would feel how I would feel when my kids were at school and the questions they'd come back with and how involved in the school and what they're doing I would have to be you know when you have a baby you just think well I'm just trying to keep this thing alive and till they go to school till they go to school but then suddenly it brings up a whole nother set of feelings for you that you

58:18Georgia Dayton: probably haven't addressed since you were at school yeah that's so true and I think as well you can often like if you've got a child that's just gone into school with no issues you know like if they've just kind of gone through and then you have to then re-look at it like I am right now it brings up so much other stuff because you're suddenly like oh god I've actually not even really looked at what they've been doing for the past six years. I know. I've had no idea.

58:41Melissa Suffield: Kit was like, you haven't even read my books. And I'm like, don't really want to. I know. I don't really understand how you're doing maths with the column and the disc. Anyway, massive thank you to Melissa. She was a wonderful guest. I really love it. As always, we would love you to rate, review, subscribe, and please give our podcast a follow.

58:57Georgia Dayton: Yeah, and if you have got any feedback or guests you'd like to hear from, you know, someone chatting about school, you can help me out. Drop us a DM on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mamas, and we'll be back on Friday.

59:35Georgia Dayton: and parents to keep kids happy. Learn more about our commitment to finding lasting solutions at empowerourfuturecoalition.com slash solutions. Paid for by the coalition to empower our future.

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