Millie Mackintosh on Her Personal Battle With Giving Up Alcohol

0:28Zoe and Georgia will be here in just a moment with Made by Mummers. know you're born on your podcast app and hit follow so new episodes land straight in your feed. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman and I'm Georgia Dayton and this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, We're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands.

1:05And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Have you got shares in M &M's? Do you know what? I'm such a cliche, but it's because it's such an easy delivery thing. I can basically just order something one day and pick it up from my high street like the next, do you know what I mean, the next day. So I'm always like, oh, can I get silky trousers? Yes, I'm sure I can get them from X, Y and Z. But I can get them in M &S and I can pick them up the next day.

1:36I'm just not going to ask you where your outfit's from ever again. Because it's literally M &S. You're even bored of saying it. No, I'm not. I'm not bored of saying it. I love it. You look gorgeous. And so do you. How are you? Yeah, I'm good. We've had quite a busy weekend. We had my mother-in-law and sister-in-law staying. They ended up staying the night. So that was quite, that was quite, that was really nice actually. and then yesterday we had Doz's best mate round with his daughter and they stayed so this morning I just you know when you reclaim your house and you think right that's it the doors are now shut I'm basically going to I'm turning into an old Scrooge where I'm like I don't want anyone else to come and visit me for a while for the winter the mornings are so chaotic I love having Murphy this isn't me changing my mind on it because she's so beautiful and we're having such joy with her our new puppy but it's definitely adding another layer of chaos which I didn't quite appreciate yeah you know yeah I do think like that first six to eight months right with a dog is really it's like a baby isn't it not as hard as a baby definitely not I mean they piss on the floor more than a baby does but um I went into the laundry room this morning and stood in these shoes I I just felt this sort of puddle and it was like a carton full of orange juice piss all over the floor by the by the washing machine and that and there there was me like in my podcasting outfit like floundering around picking up shit in the garden I mean it's definitely hard it's definitely harder than I thought it was going to be really yeah I think so I think so just because we've just done the house and I don't want this if anyone's listening to this you should definitely still get a dog because it's giving it's bringing more love but in reality there is a lot of admin that goes with it yeah do you know i asked the kids if they wanted to have a pet i'm gigi's like yeah i want a rabbit i want a cat i want a dog you know all this stuff and i said to axel do you want to have another dog and he was like no way and i was like really why and he said because i never want to feel how i felt when rufus died ever again and i was like that's so sad but then i was saying to him i was like but the good outweighs the bad right and he was like i'm not sure i was like wow he's completely traumatized by the death of your dog but then i think it does bring something to a family oh yeah doesn't it i just i don't know anybody else feels this way but there is never a moment where i look around my house and think this looks nice no never no same it's chaos same why is there so much shit everywhere and why is it bags and water bottles and crusty bits of old bagel and like piss and shit i just i can't every time i walk into the bathroom there's stuff on the floor there's we in the loo on the seat every and i just think what is this i know i'm exactly the same it frustrates me so much i feel like all i do is go around picking stuff up i actually said to the kids the other day right i'm going to put a cardboard box in the corner of every room and every time i see something that isn't where it should be i'm going to put it in that box and if it's not out of that box in a week it's going in the bin i haven't done it yet because I haven't found the carpool boxes.

4:42But if I do, I'll let you know how I get on. But then as James points out, he's like, he looks around and he's like, well, that's yours. That's yours. That's yours. And I'm like, I didn't need your opinion. You should take it one step further and say you're going to burn it in the garden. Maybe. Yeah. Oh, my God. Imagine how traumatizing that would be. Okay, so you feel this way too. No, I'm exactly the same. And it really was. I'm not being funny. We've got so much help as well. Like, I don't understand. I know. Like, I don't understand. Why does nothing get cleared up? I don't get it. I felt like I was being pranked this morning.

5:16You know when you're like, right, I've got up really early, thought of you again. The alarm went off and I was like, I'm getting myself ready. The kids did their breakfast. They were on track with everything. And then obviously we had a poo and a wee situation which sent me back. And then as I opened the boot of the car, the bikes were in there from the weekend with the seats down. And I was like, fuck! Like, it just goes to shit because nothing's in order. Yeah. Do you know what? I do see some people who look like they really don't live like that. Do you know what I mean? I do too. Like my neighbor.

5:45Okay. I see her. Like she must leave the house at a similar time to me in the morning. Right. And I feel like I'm walking out of the door. Like, you know, come on. Yeah. Get your butt out. Why have you not got, be nice to your sister. Yeah. And then she just like walks out and her hair is like perfect. and she's like, oh, come and da-da-da-da-da. And I think we're living like so close, but such opposite lives. In her house, there's probably constantly a candle burning, diffusers in every room. I mean, I do try the candle thing to see if that works, but unfortunately that doesn't clear your house up, you know?

6:24But then I think, do we just all have too much stuff? Like, would it be less chaotic? I'm going to send you a photograph of what my room, my dressing room looks. and this morning it was like, have you seen that program on hoarders? Yeah. It was like I was a hoarder and I was kind of, and I just, I cleaned it up three days ago. I swear to God, someone's coming in and just fucking with my shit. That's what I think is happening to me as well. Okay, fine. Maybe we've got the same ghost. It's a ghost hoarder. It is. Well, we need to move away from ghost hoarders on to today's conversation because when we recorded this, I think we both left feeling that she'd really, really shown up in this beautiful, authentic, honest, very open space.

7:07We had her on the podcast before, but probably four years ago. Yeah, it might have been longer than that. I can't. Five years ago? Yeah, I can't remember. What a journey she's been on. Yes, I'd say like her life is completely different to how it was when we chatted to her way back. And she's been through a sobriety journey recently and has been really honest about it because I think, again, so much you see online is like, I stopped drinking and my life is now amazing. And she was there saying, actually, it's not as clear as that. You get over one challenge and then you face another one because it's not as clear as just, OK, stop drinking.

7:49My life is fixed. It's not like that. and I really loved that she spoke about that in depth because I do think if there's anybody who's sort of on that road you would expect from what you see like as soon as you give up drinking like your life is amazing yeah and I love that she's there like it well it is but it's not that easy you have to unpick don't you kind of 35 years in her case of learned behavior and a way that you that you used to show up and actually probably really showing up in a space that is so vulnerable and so open can be really bring up its challenges so really really adored the conversation we hope you guys are going to love it as much as we did Georgia who are we talking to today we're chatting to Millie McIntosh joining us on the podcast today she has worn so many hats TV personality businesswoman now author of bad drunk podcaster and of course the most important role i'm saying she hasn't confirmed that being a mom it's millie mackintosh i wonder what you're gonna say then how are you millie how's your morning been i'm good yeah mondays it's a monday so mondays yeah it's always like that kind of mad rush getting everyone back into like the school nursery and school day with quite a lot of resistance after the weekend i don't know if you find that on a monday yeah um and then once they're in you kind of feel quite relieved to just have the routine of the week back how are the girls how are they getting on they are good aurelia is nearly four i can't believe that i know i'm it really feels like departure from being no longer being a baby yeah they're kind of sort of toddler when they're three fours like she's like a little girl and it's her first she's in reception she's no she'll be in reception next september okay because she's she'll be old in her year so her birthday's in november right right right sienna's just gone into year one oh my god like and that feels like quite grown up as well yeah you know homework and she's found it quite hard yeah talk to us about that because you've mentioned that online that the jump's been quite a lot i think reception you know it's hard settling them into reception because it's new but they're still playing a lot and then going into year one suddenly i think there just is a lot more emphasis on learning and on lessons and reading and writing and she's not reading right or writing yet obviously they'd learn that at school and we're trying to support at home and she's young in her year but I think it's that feeling like until you and when you're finding it confusing like the learning that then it's like she's not really enjoying it yeah okay she's not to explain that as well isn't it like if they're not enjoying it at school and they've suddenly gone from playing to suddenly having to sit down and do things they don't want to do it's hard to tell them that they have to and why they have to for the next 17 years like why do i have to go to school yeah can't i just be at home with you all day mommy to the point where i'm literally like looking up like how to homeschool your kids oh my god do you know how many conversations we've been having about this at the moment and then i'm like why do i have to hand my child over like all day every day like if the week maybe and then but i'm just not capable of homeschooling her is there a desire to do that I just I want what's best for her okay but I think she's just she's just going to take a bit longer to settle into school I don't I think I think she's at the right school for her but it's just yeah it just keeps changing I think you question yourself don't you with things like this like you know you just said I think she's at the right school but then at the same time you're looking at homeschooling and it's such it's such a big thing it's such a big decision and like that can shape someone's life which is so scary yeah how was school for you look really hard right I I'm dyspraxic so so that's lots of people talk about being dyslexic but then there's also dyspraxia um which affects learning but also more like your coordination and I just I found learning hard I I wasn't kind of picked to be in any teams because I was really awkward and couldn't catch or throw a ball I yeah I remember kind of being teased because of it and I just felt like I didn't fit in and I did have ADHD but didn't get diagnosed actually till last year oh my god I can't wait to talk to you about this yeah so yeah I found school really difficult and I actually went to five schools which is a lot that's a lot and that was because each school you went to you you didn't find easy and you didn't feel like you were excelling in any of them different reasons like one uh my first school I think my parents just weren't happy with the school anymore like things have changed for school they weren't happy with the way they were running the school so then I went to boarding school when I was like nine or ten and that was hard because you know that's super young to be away from your family and it was it was quite far away I wouldn't go home that often then the next school I went to shut down after a year okay so like it was kind of just bad luck with some of it and then I wanted to go to I went to all girls for GCSEs it was very bitchy I was like quite a lot of bullying so I wanted to go to mixed school for sixth form right so that and that was my choice but then actually it probably wasn't the best idea also the boys are distracting they were distracting they were also just awful you have been on such a marathon haven't you really in the last kind of 10 15 years was there a period in your life where you look back and you think I was truly happy before the chaos came for you was there was there that time you know maybe it was your early 20s where you actually were like a bit free and did you say maybe like when I left school yeah and I went traveling with about actually one of my best friends, Kagi, and we went.

13:47Oh, yeah, Kagi. I can't believe, like, thinking about 18-year-olds, like, getting up to the kind of stuff like we would get up. I know, it's wild, isn't it? It's scary. Like, there is no way my children are doing that. But off we went. We left school, worked for six months to save up to go, and then went traveling for about four months. Went to, like, Bali, Australia, Thailand. That's so good. And, yeah, it was, I guess, like, no responsibilities. I wasn't really worrying about what I was going to do when I got back. I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life. No routine. I thought back on it, I'd say then maybe, but I was also experiencing anxiety at that time, but I just didn't know what it was.

14:29Okay, so how was that manifesting at that time? Like a lot of stomach issues, IBS, you know. I'd be at parties and just get loads of stomach cramps and have to kind of leave. And it was just my body literally being like, please stop drinking because it was also partying every single night. Yeah, I didn't, I just get this feeling of discomfort, but I didn't name it because I didn't know what anxiety was, but I just get this feeling where I just had to leave. I'd have to just escape. And was that to do with you feeling uncomfortable around other people, big crowds, social interaction? Or was it deeper than that?

15:10Was that something about a feeling of being displaced in that group? I think both. Right. Because if I think back to that time also, I had like having zero routine and just being somewhere where you're, you know, you're in a different place each week and you're, that is quite hard. Like now I understand more about kind of ADHD brain as well. Yeah. Just having like no plan, just going with the flow doesn't really come that easily to me. Yeah. Actually talk to us about that. So, you know, you were only diagnosed last year. yeah when you look back what were the things that you can now see that that you know was a symptom I guess um with like the ADHD oh so many things I think obviously explains a lot about school um struggling to focus kind of becoming the class clown not taking school seriously then even just down to how I would drink when I was younger binge drinking um trying to reach that that point where you've drunk you're drunk enough that your kind of mind quietens down and you can't suddenly hear all the different thoughts at once and you just reach that place of kind of numbness where you're kind of oblivious to all your usual thoughts um that's a really big one I think a lot of people with um ADHD have alcohol issues because just literally because of the way that your brain is wired um I get overwhelmed quite easily like by sensory overwhelm of just lights being too bright like sounds being too loud crowds um and yeah I've experienced burnout which I also now understand you're more likely to um reach a point of burnout if you have ADHD um it's like feeling that you can take on a lot because your brain can do so many things at once but then that being completely overwhelming it's hard to know if that is a lot of it is like a lot of it is you might think well a lot of the symptoms i was experiencing it's kind of like surely that's just what it's like when you have kids no i was literally just about to say that i'm like everything you've said i get yeah but is that why so many people find out that they have it when they have kids like one of my best friends is loads of the things you've just mentioned is she's just been dying like, well, a couple of years ago.

17:29And she says all these, it was these things that almost, like, heightened it. Yeah, it totally heightened it. Yeah. Yeah, and things like lack of sleep make it worse. So, you know, when you're a parent, you're pretty much sleep deprived for the first couple of years. And there's some weird things that I didn't realize for ADHD until I started to learn more about it. Things like eating the same thing on repeat. and it's basically because you get so paralyzed by having to make so many different decisions all the time so there'll be certain things where you're just like this is easier for my brain so I'm going to eat the same thing on repeat I'm going to wear the same outfit on repeat I'm going to listen to the same song on repeat oh my god that's me and I do all of those things wow what made you go for a diagnosis was there like a point where you were like I need to know if this is what this is um I was in therapy and my therapist one day just was looking at me and he was like I think you have ADHD and I was like jiggling my foot or something and I was just like really and then it just kind of was in the back of my mind and then I kept seeing things actually online on Instagram and it was like hidden signs that you have ADHD as an adult I think Mel Robbins was one of the people talking about it yeah and a few things just kind of like clicked and then I just decided to do the test I thought about it for a while did it then it took a while to get the results um I passed with flying colors did you yeah top of the class perfect never never got a good score before until I did my ADHD test um so I was like of course if I'm gonna have it I'd rather have like a really good amount of it um and I just think of my brain as being special but it definitely isn't all like a superpower I know a lot of people are like it is a superpower and I and I try and see it in a really positive way.

19:21Yeah. But it can also make life more difficult. Do you have to manage it day to day, medication? Yes. Yeah. I have tried medication, but I don't like how it makes me feel. But it makes you hyper-focused. Like when I was writing the book, that's a prime example of when I struggle with my ADHD because I've got to sit down and just like stare at a load of words and you know edit and go through it again and again and again and I would the medication was really helpful in those times but there was one day where I nearly went to hospital because I had such bad anxiety and it was because I'd taken the medication I'd had a coffee as well I hadn't eaten properly hadn't slept much the night before and the medication can make me feel more anxious right so i find the best ways to manage it are like all lifestyle things and it's all the all the things that we know make us feel our best getting enough sleep eating non-processed foods avoiding sugar avoiding alcohol exercising meditating like all the the wellness things we don't want to hear all of those things make a massive difference to how much i notice the symptoms I'm still waiting for somebody to come out and say the things that make a massive difference are partying in the ether staying up all night doing shots of tequila do you know what's so annoying all the good things are bad for you like literally if you think of anything good there's always a way that it's bad for you you know like even stuff like I don't know exercise right we all love exercise but someone will say to you oh but you shouldn't do it too much because i think it's everything everything in moderation yeah moderation yeah so my mom always had everything in moderation so i've just had a stomach ulcer confirmed and the h pylori bacteria which has been pretty brutal i had to have my endoscopy last week i've been not been well for six weeks but because my anxiety and my stress levels have been so savage over the summer with the workload and the kids and stuff and it was actually so refreshing to get the diagnosis because I was thinking my anxiety my anxiety was getting worse and as my anxiety was getting worse my stomach was getting worse it's so linked it's so linked isn't it yeah um but what's made such a huge difference is I'm now not allowed to drink for eight weeks so I'm not allowed to I'm just not going to do it and my diet and basically eating like drinking soup yeah porridge bone broth I mean it's just strip it right back and I do even though I've got this and it's painful I can't tell you how much better I feel in myself already.

21:57So when you're talking about those lives, this is a forced lifestyle change, but I actually think this will make a huge difference in how I'm feeling overall, not just my stomach, but like my heart palpitations and the way I cope with stress. And it's brought me down in terms of how much I was flying off the handle as well, even in the last two weeks. It's interesting. Yeah, I think with drinking and when I was still drinking, like even even if I wasn't caning it and I was just having a couple of glass of wine it would affect my anxiety even just having one drink one glass of wine the night before I would have be definitely more anxious the next day I'd wake up earlier I would probably wake up in the middle of the night as well more broken sleep wake up earlier with a headache and that sinking feeling of doom and it would be after like one drink really think like how can it affect me so much and and not other people like and think oh it's so unfair yeah I do I say that because I tell people I'm allergic to wine and I'm not but I'd lie I'm not allergic to wine but I tell everyone that I am allergic to wine because I get that like one glass of wine I like the taste and And I even don't mind how it makes me feel, like one glass of wine.

23:16Yeah, it makes you feel relaxed. But I cannot sleep. I feel horrible the next day. Like I even feel hot. Yeah. Like it's wild. And then one person can have a glass, like, you know, casual glass of wine. And I'm like, how? Can't do it. I used to just think, well, if I'm going to have one, I might as well have a bottle or two because I'm going to feel awful anyway. Yeah. Like how bad is that? I used to just be like, might as well just get trashed because I'm going to pay for it either way. what was your lowest point do you think um in the last year but before I stopped there was a couple um one of them was a friend's hen party when we'd had like two big nights out in a row and that was always a big no-no for me because I'm super sensitive to hangovers so if I was hung over and drank on the hangover the next day would you know be it would be like two days worth of hangover in one and I felt so low I couldn't go I couldn't join in with the kind of hen activities of the next day just remember like lying um in the hotel room just feeling almost like actually suicidal like just like being like should I jump out the window that low oh my god and my best friend who was sharing a room with me was like honestly she really had to have a word with me she didn't then because she knew I was feeling so fragile but after that trip she was just like I can't see you do this to yourself anymore like you can't handle drinking like you it's bad for you and when I actually stopped I now think of myself as being allergic to alcohol so you know how you said you tell people you're allergic to wine but that's actually how I think how I view it it's like yeah I'm intolerant to gluten so I don't I don't eat it because it makes me feel really ill and I think of alcohol as the same like it does not work for me we'll be right back after this short break welcome back to this episode of made by mamas now where were we what sort of a drunk were you you say bad drunk well as you might have guessed I wasn't I wasn't a good drunk yes the title gives it away the title is a little bit of a giveaway so I think we all know that person that on a night out can't hold that drink, is obviously drunk before everyone else, is a bit embarrassing, is making a fool of themselves and probably needs to be taken home or there's some kind of drama.

25:45That was me. Or consistently? Not every single time that I drank, but there was always a high risk that that would be how the night turned out. And it felt like this really dirty secret, especially being in the industry we're in like I couldn't do it publicly and it did happen publicly because I couldn't control it but it would always be like trying to stop like the press from finding out or pictures from coming out and then everyone's got a camera phone and there was so much anxiety around that as well like waking up and being like oh my god what did I do could someone have seen me like that could someone have taken a picture yeah I do remember vividly talking to you actually about those photographs I think you were on holiday when I think Dean was there yeah Dean and I remember that I know I do remember checking in with you at the time about them and I'm wondering if that was kind of where you were at your worst that those were definitely some low moments I could when waking up and seeing pictures from the night before and and where I looked like you know really wasted and that the feelings of shame would really take over but I would cope with it often by going out and drinking again and just kind of in that cycle and yeah I carried so much shame around the way I would act when I was drunk for a long time then I had I also had my kids and and thought okay this I'm gonna calm down now because I'm a mum and enjoyed not drinking when I was pregnant because I was like I've got an excuse no one's gonna pressure me to drink yeah and that was like the first time in my adult life and I was like wow I can actually not drink and and I and I don't I don't have any want to drink I want to like look after my body look after my baby but after I had both of the girls I found that when I did start drinking again it all went horribly wrong and and I think I've heard you speaking about this sort of um the mum drinking you know like you know you've got these groups of mums that you've met and someone goes oh it's a thursday let's get the kids to bed and all come around to mine and then suddenly one glass turns into you know six bottles between you all but that's socially acceptable because it's like oh yeah mum's out mum's night out you're like i deserve it i deserve it like i've had you know yeah how many night broken night sleep i've had all this stress you know we've all been through it and you think it's like a treat yeah but then I think it's a passage don't you think like that's the way I've earned it yeah yeah yeah until it's the next morning and you're awake with a you know crying baby at 4am with like the splitting headache and hangover kicking in and yeah I remember one time trying to um bottle feed the baby and just being so hungover I just was like I can't I can't do this I got to give the baby to Hugo and I think I had a panic attack and just had to go back to bed and feel it you know and then all that mum guilt like I'm not a good mother and how could I have got so drunk last night I've got a baby at home it comes it comes and when it comes it comes like a tidal wave actually and I think that is such an important point to be able to get to the place where it's consistently happening you go through those moments because you know we all have them when we're lying there when the anxiety comes and we think fuck we've got too drunk here and then and then we know that we're going to get get two hours sleep max and I used to dread I used to wake up and think or hear the baby and think oh my god yeah and I feel really sad that I didn't it didn't happen often but I feel really sad that I dreaded that moment rather than being like okay I'm a bit tired but I can handle this and that is because of the alcohol that is because of being pissed yeah one of the like really big motivators for me to stop drinking was obviously my kids.

29:35And I love being a mom. It is hard, like one of the hardest things I've ever done, most rewarding and also most challenging things. But when I was hungover, I didn't like being a parent. I did not like how I showed up as a parent when I was hungover. And I was like, I don't wanna be this hungover mom that's more grumpy, more snappy, doesn't wanna go to the park because the hangover is too intense. The social anxiety is too intense. what if I bump into someone oh my god am I gonna I've like literally would have such bad anxiety I basically had agoraphobia and be like okay another afternoon watching you know whatever Peppa Pig yeah yeah yeah yeah whilst actually like sitting and like rocking myself in the corner like I was like I don't want this to be their childhood yeah I don't want to dread the weekends like weekends with kids are hard enough yeah yeah you don't need to add like alcohol into the mix it's weird isn't it alcohol like when you think of what it is you can't understand how we got to this place where it's so like socially acceptable and like I mean I've got um in my family someone with like bad alcohol issues and I've grown up with it and so I have a I guess I've always thought more about it because of what I've seen yeah um and I think it yeah when you when you say that you made that decision to you know not drink anymore because you want to be a better mum I think there'd be lots of people listening to this who are that drunk you know that person who it doesn't sit well with I'm like that it doesn't sit well with me um and I think it's okay now I think that's what's so good like we don't have to be like the mums who are like getting wasted because it's fun like there's other there's other things that you can do to like you don't have to have the drinking but it's so hard to break the pattern that we have been you know we're kids of the 90s or you guys probably a bit younger than me but like you know 95 onwards it was like stealing your parents alcohol from the cupboard the disgusting whiskey and zambarini or whatever it was yeah exactly you know that's that's what we did we smoked fags and and drank shit alcohol in somewhere in the park and um and and and it's very hard to we rewire your brain to be thinking right okay this is one thing this is this is how we have fun but really I realized when I stopped drinking I had to basically get to know the girl that I was when I started drinking so that 14 year old girl 12 year old girl um like it's really been like a healing journey with her like what does she like to do what then like really trying to do lots of like kind of inner child work with her and I'm still like on that journey now also when I stopped drinking I've been on a journey with antidepressants so I've been on them twice okay in the last four years what was that experience like um it's really it's been really helpful but also it's been really hard to come off them okay and And I think looking back, I think back kind of over my life and the way I used alcohol, I was trying to escape my feelings and I was using it to try and cope.

32:53And that's why I was also drinking to such excess. And that was all the way through my teens and 20s. And there was also some prescription drugs going on as well, like pill popping with, you know, prescriptions I'd got from doctors, but private doctors. So they were not kind of limiting them. We're talking Xanax's. Yeah, so there's lots of numbing going on. So if I wasn't drinking, it wasn't a socially acceptable time to be drinking alcohol. My anxiety was popping up, I'd be taking a pill and often if I was hungover, that's how I'd deal with my hangovers. So it was quite a slippery slope. And then when I stopped drinking, it was very confronting dealing with my feelings.

33:33I was actually on antidepressants when I first stopped drinking. And then I tapered off them and thought I was fine. then my anxiety really overwhelmed me had a bit of a mental breakdown slash kind of burnout yeah um nearly two years ago and then I went back onto medication and for about that was about a year and a half and then for the last actually six months I've been tapering off them really slowly okay and trying to stay strong as I come off them because basically they help your brain chemistry but when you try to come off them you'll probably feel worse than you did when you needed them right wow because that's just like there's so many side effects when you stop um and it's been quite wobbly but I stopped about two weeks ago completely last week I was I had to take a few days off I just was like really low and I this week I'm starting to feel a bit better again it's been like insomnia and you know all kinds of different symptoms a lot of anxiety i think it's a really important thing to say as well because i think you see so many people online who are sober and they're like the second i stopped drinking i just felt amazing and so much better and actually that's probably not the reality like you say it's amazing it's the start i'm so glad that i that i've stopped drinking because now i can truly do the healing and I was I've done a lot of therapy while I was on meds because it kind of allowed me to be in a safe space to kind of go to the dark places and shine a light there and do the work a lot of EMDR I've done lots of different types of therapy and I think I've got a lot more coping strategies and things kind of up my sleeve now when the anxiety does come up obviously it's normal like you're going to have anxiety obviously there's times where it feels like it's unnecessary and it can take over when it gets in the way of your day-to-day life.

35:33I think absolutely there are, like, you know, it can have a massive effect on your health. So I think these medications are so valid and so helpful for so many people. But I just started last week doing tapping. Have you ever done tapping? Tapping therapy. Yeah. So interesting. And I've known about it for a while. I've done it a bit before, but I was like, okay, I can't have a therapy session every day. It's just not, I feel like I want one right now, but that's just like not realistic. I was like what can I do every day when if I feel suddenly really overwhelmed I feel really anxious I feel low I need something I can go and do on my own so I started um like looking around I found an app with like loads of different ones on and and it's been amazing I've like I found my thing for those listening who don't know what it is yeah explain it yeah so it's called EFT which is emotional freedom technique right yeah yeah and so you tap on different points and I like to do it like following a video because I don't want to have to try and remember what the points are but I think the more I do it then I'll remember so you start by tapping on the side of your hand you you tap like your head you tap a few different points on your face like just under your collarbone and like on like kind of where your bra straps are it's really good for your central nervous yeah and it and you're repeating like mantras like phrases while you're doing and it really helps to rewire your brain chemistry.

36:55Wow. It's really interesting. And actually I've been like, you know when you're looking for like the key, you're like what is the piece of the puzzle, what is the right thing? And I think different points I've found different things that are helpful in that moment. And I feel like this is what I need right now. You know that also, you know sometimes kids with ADHD have the fidget toys and the clicking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they have them at school now, don't they? Like all kids can have a fidget toy. Yeah. Yeah, I want to teach it to my kids. So I really came in when I was doing it yesterday, I was sat in front of a red light panel in my room, tapping and went, they're like, what's mommy up to?

37:34You know how kids just copy what you're doing? She came sat next to me and was like tapping. And I want to actually do a course so I can get certified in it, I think, and like understand more about it. But I'd love to be able to help my kids like with you know throughout their lives if they are having difficult time having a difficult time I'd love to be able to like to tap with them we'll be right back after this short break

37:59welcome back to this episode of made by mommas now where were we and in terms of relationships in general when you stop drinking do you look at friendships in a different way do you look yes Yeah, energetically you notice so much more like the people that drain you and the people that either drains or radiators, right? So you might come back from having dinner with a friend or seeing someone at an event that you've been like sat talking to for a while and you either feel like lit up from seeing them, you either feel like, okay, I might be tired because I was out late, but that was, I feel like they've renewed my energy.

38:38Topped my cup up. Yeah, they top-make-up exactly. Or you might be like, oh God, that was just a bit overwhelming. But their energy made me feel anxious or heavy or you were just not, you weren't being your authentic self around that person you really notice. And yeah, some friendships have slipped away and you kind of have to make peace with it. And then making new friends also in your 30s, so that's been amazing. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. Like with like the kind of like meeting all the new like nursery mums and school mums it's a bit like speed dating yeah how do you oh my god i was so the keenest person at the beginning oh my god i love this for you i was like in the whatsapp groups like wanting to meet up everyone was like just chill the fuck out they're like is this the millie mccintosh and then now i feel like like i've eased in a bit i'm and i'm much more chilled that's labrador puppy yeah so i'm just a bit like okay don't don't force it like if it's there it will come what's the dynamic in your mum's whatsapp groups because i think everyone has different ones like you know mine are quite actually then well one was juicy when someone's in a nude but someone accidentally sent a nude on the nude of themselves of themselves it was me but apart from that it's pretty much like you know where's such and such's jumper oh Yeah, it's literally like, I think bloody blah's got knits.

40:07Okay, have you treated it? But then there's also like dinners that are like, at like 9pm, sorry. No, I'll be asleep by then. I'm not coming. I'm not coming to that, thanks. I'm very honest, I'm like, oh guys, I sometimes pull the sober card as well. I'm like, guys, like you go and have a fun boozy one, but like, it's not for me. And I'm really comfortable also saying that. If they want to meet at a time where it's not, after my bedtime it's bedtime yeah yeah can we do high tea here can we do northern tea can we do like five o 'clock yeah um but they get your they understand your sobriety i think yeah yeah amazing there's just there's just there's just things i don't need to put myself through and that it sometimes is not going to a super late dinner with loads of people that are that are drinking and it's fine that they will i have zero judgment i just don't want to don't want to do that no yeah Something really interesting happened to me yesterday where I met up with my two absolute best, my gays, my Simon and Nick, one was missing Tim, but the two boys were there.

41:12And they are like my, you know Nick's dear, don't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're my forever 20 year friendships. And we normally, when we get together, we're literally like, woohoo, drinking. Who knows where the night's gonna go? I don't even know, even if I've got a school run the next day. And obviously now I'm being forced not to drink for eight weeks and even in a week of just not drinking I didn't feel upset sad like I was missing out we had the most beautiful lunch we we howled with laughter yeah they had a bottle of red wine and I sat there and had an apple juice yeah and it was like it was it was so weird for me I was like oh hang on a minute this actually feels really nice yeah but it's that societal pressure or the memories that you have with people that makes you slip into the pattern of just choosing booze over taking a moment and going right do i really want this do i really need it how am i going to feel the next day and what feels comfortable and i think it's okay if you're in a friendship group where you've moved together like my school friends as you know like we go away together you know like one night somewhere like in the cotswolds and we're all kind of on the same page now yeah like we're sort of on the same page where we we're not really up for drinking low that we might have like one glass of champagne and like that's it we're cool we want to we want to have a good nice sleep we want to see we just have one glass of wine no yeah see we've got to that now yeah that's amazing all of us but then one comes over she lives in singapore and she's like what the hell happened to you lot and all of us are like yeah i don't really drink anymore just like one you know just occasionally and she's like her and it's fine if you're all on the same page but if you've got if you're meeting up with someone who's not on the same page that's difficult it's really difficult could you ever set could you ever set some rules around it where oh I've tried all the rules like I'll only do it in Ibiza because that's my latest one yeah I for me I've tried all the rules and I've also worked with a sober coach who really clearly made me understand that for me yeah it's not safe to even have one drink right and I feel very comfortable knowing that I actually would rather I prefer not having that that thought in the back of my mind like maybe just one would be fine because one is such a slippery slope yeah but is that for everyone no that's not the same for everyone okay if you've got the switch that can be flipped yeah it's like I've got and I'd have that maybe it's like the gene or disposition whatever I just think of it literally the way I'm it's the way I'm wired if I have one I want a hundred are you like that with anything else yes yeah sugar right sugar's hard one to come yeah i've stopped i've completely quit sugar no sugar at all no refined sugar i'm keto i start in january so no and so no carbohydrates you can have up to 50 grams a day so that's like a few a few berries you know if i sometimes have like a date with some butter in it as a snack because it's just delicious so what do you eat in a day what does it look like have like egg muffins for breakfast which but like egg um egg with some cottage cheese and cheese and a bit of grated cheese and ham just like two of those nice just like it's like really filling and savory then i had a protein shake after the gym yeah then for lunch i'll probably have some like veggie soup with a piece of salmon just like keep kind of the protein like quite high so that you're and so that you're full and then I'll probably have like a snack maybe something like a chia pudding that I make at home yeah and then dinner I quite often have something like a stew maybe something like chicken stew with some veggies yeah your keto or like yeah your keto or like caulille rice yeah so that I eat quite a lot of caulille rice because it feels like kind of like you're having rice um yeah fully keto yeah and that's another thing for ADHD that I found really helpful I try and think of it's like whole food diet so it's like nothing processed really but then occasionally I'd say once a week if my daughter's like can we go to the this there's this pancake house near where we live and I'm I'm gonna have a pancake yeah yeah yeah like I'm not gonna like not have the pancake because it's delicious so you know I'm not super strict with it but I know that if I I like I can't really digest gluten I had a bit of gluten the other night I felt so ill the next day just it wasn't worth it you can have gluten-free stuff but I don't think it tastes great and I feel better when I'm completely grain-free so okay just having you know the the protein and the veggies feels better I think it has to be a sort of you know three-prong attack doesn't it with your diet sleep yeah and I think it's just different you've got to find like what feels what feels good for you I used to find I got my blood sugar would dip and I used to get this anxious feeling when I was hungry and I'd feel like I was going to pass out and being keto I don't get that you have to like make sure you're eating enough and eat like really quite a good amount of healthy fats as well always have some kind of keto snack in my bag and I don't get the like low the kind of low blood I can't talk I don't get that like low blood pressure feeling where I'm gonna pass out anymore and I definitely used to binge on sugar in a similar way to how I used to binge on alcohol like I'd not have any sugar all week be you know eat super clean and then get to Friday and be and just like binge on gorge gorge yeah gorge gorge and then feel horrible and then not do it again for a while and then you know it's like that kind of restriction but then binging you can really see that in your in our kids as well you know if there's a movie night taking place on a Friday night and they're allowed to go and get some stuff in the shops the next day all my kids they're black eyed they haven't slept well their moods are low and i'm thinking course of course you've had a shit diet you've had a fun movie night but now you're going to be awful for the next day and it's my fault so it's like it's really hard to find the balance isn't it mine keeps coming out of school and it's someone's birthday like every day and they've she's had a packet of haribo before she's even yeah like got walked home and then i'm like okay i've got to try and feed her and she's just had like packet of sweets doesn't want to eat her dinner you see how it how much sugar affects them yeah it's hard isn't it because i we all know right what we should be feeding our kids like we all know like what's good what's not but putting it into practice is so much harder like you want to be i don't know we all knew the kids we grew up with who weren't allowed any sweets or sugar and then they'd come around to your house where you might be allowed it and they would ransack everything so you don't want to make anything like the devil because then it makes you want it more yeah it's i find it so hard finding the balance to get right we actually have a sweetie jar at home and they're allowed sweets every day at home because of but in like they get like one or two so depending on how their behavior has been we call it like the how we have like house rules so if you've like done a baby if you've done the house rules like being kind you've been helpful you haven't been rude then you get your sweetie at the end of the day and they you know they really like look forward to it so it's kind of rewarding okay you wait I'm not like the mum that's like you have to finish your dinner but I'm like okay you ate a good amount of your dinner yeah you did a good effort of sitting at the table you've done your homework you were not you did some good sharing with your sister yeah you can you know there you go have your and I think that's quite a good balance way of letting them they just have like it's just one yeah but they just they don't feel deprived yeah I totally get what you're saying yeah because it's kind of control it's controlled but it's it's not controlled yeah you see what I mean yeah it's not like they're restricting it's like no no yeah a couple every day that's we're talking that's what we're talking about here we're talking about finding balance yeah and it's that big conversation about balance that we always have on this podcast that I think as busy mums as career women you know stay at home mums, whoever you are listening to this podcast, the balance is off the majority of the time.

49:26It's so hard. It's like my constant battle is like, am I working enough? Oh, am I working too much? Am I doing every pick up and drop off? And if I'm not, I feel so bad. And you can't do it all. No, not at the same time. But what you can do is go and buy. Millie's book, Bad Drunk. Who needs to read it? Do you know what I get most of the messages I get from people who've read my book and who say it's really helping them is mums. It's mums, it's other mums who have just turned to alcohol because it's so readily available but know that it is making their life harder and can't kind of break free from that societal pressure and actually say no when they want to say no.

50:16and I wrote Bad Drunk to try and help just empower other women and other people, but other women particularly who felt like I did, who felt really trapped and helped them to realize they have the power to say no and make the change. I love that. It's so good. I love you so much. You've done so, I mean. I feel like I've known you for so long. For so long. I remember meeting you at one of the first ever events I went to. Yeah. and I was like really new in the game and it was like, I think it was like the Scottish Fashion Awards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's exactly what it was. And I had to wear that horrific orange outfit that made me look like a pumped up tangerine.

50:55I don't remember that. I just remember you looking gorge. Was I hosting it? Yeah, it was like 15, 16 years ago. Wow. Yeah, it's been a long time but we've both been on a journey. Millie, thank you so much. Good luck with this. It's out now. It's out now. Yeah, you can download it on audio as well if you like listening to your books. Amazing. And it's paperback in January? Yeah, the paperback's coming out in January. Okay, will you come back on soon? Of course. Tell us about your next project. Yes. Thanks so much. Millie, thank you so much. Millie McIntosh! I mean, we said it before the chat, but thank you to Millie because it's not easy coming on and really, really talking about it.

51:36But she's written it all down in her book. She talks about it very openly on her Instagram as well. And I think it's the most kind of calm and together I've seen her. We've obviously known her for such a long time and she's such a special soul. But yeah, really grateful to her for sharing the way that she just did. Yeah, absolutely. I really loved it. And also, you know, talking about ADHD and dyspraxia and things that, you know, we kind of touch on now and again. But again, like being honest about it, you know, so much sort of narrative that, oh, it's a superpower, a superpower. But she's actually talking about that it's not always and the difficulties and the challenges that you can face.

52:11So, yeah. Yeah. Like you said, it's not easy coming on and being that open. And she really was. So we're really grateful. I'm often sort of thinking, you know, and talking a lot about sobriety. And I think I'm definitely sober curious because I definitely that last night, for example, I didn't drink and does drunk. And he probably set up a bit late at his best mate round. And I felt really proud of myself this morning that I hadn't had a drink, even though I don't think I've got a problem with it. It was like, no, I'm going to take myself off. I'm going to have a bath. I'm going to really look after myself.

52:43And I'm wondering a lot more why we question it so much more as we get older. That, you know, our 25 year old selves weren't, you know, every time you had a drink being like, oh, should I be having this drink? But I think it's having is it having more of an impact or is it because we feel it more because we've got all these other things to do? and having a hangover, you can't cope with it. No. Yeah, I think it affects me more. Like, I think it just really does, apart from champagne. Do you drink every day? You don't drink every day, do you? Oh, my God, I can go months without drinking. When was the last time you had a drink?

53:16Let me think. When was the last time I had a drink? It was when I went to Estelle Manor with my friends, which was in September, which was the middle of a month. You haven't had a drink for a month? No, but I don't think about it. Like, I don't. Do you know what I mean? I'm not I don't drink enough to like think about it would you be addicted to shopping rather than anything else I don't know if I would do anything no you're so balanced a tea I can't get off the tea guys I really can't I'm not joking in a previous life Georgia lived in Georgia lived in Sri Lanka he was a tea merchant well I think it's my northern roots there's like I haven't got any I have my dad's from Liverpool oh yeah of course there we There you go.

53:58That's what my dad always says. That's the only northern part of you is that you drink so much tea. So that's what it is. To be continued. We'll pick up the tea chat next time. Thank you so much for listening to today's podcast. As always, we'd love you to rate, review, subscribe, and please give our podcast a follow. Yeah, and if you've got any feedback on this episode or guests you'd love to hear from, drop us a DM on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mothers, and we'll be back on Friday.

54:28Thank you.