Nawal Al-Maghafi

0:02That sound could mean a lot of things. And when something's going wrong at home, the hardest part can be figuring out what the problem actually is. At Thumbtack, you can upload a voice message or a photo, and our AI-powered search will help diagnose your project. Plus, the pros we know have over 14 million five-star reviews, so you can hire with confidence. Thumbtack. We know homes. Hire the right pro today.

0:31It takes the hits, runs the miles, rebuilds while you sleep. It's felt every fall, every dance floor, every belly laugh. And in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor and this is Back Your Body, the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have. The one you have with your body. From scars to self-care, the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love, we're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them, or finally learned to listen to them. It's time to back your body the way it's always back to you.

1:07Back your body. Subscribe now. Your body will thank you.

1:13Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot.

1:26Georgia Dayton: We really have. Each week, we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts, and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hola. Hola. You've been in Ibiza. Give me a second there. What an amazing girls trip I just had.

2:01You had a girls trip. It was my first girls trip in 10 years. Aside from SJ Tendu.

2:07Georgia Dayton: Yeah. Which then does and the kids came out to join me. That was three nights. This was the first three nights that I've had with a girlfriend. Just being free. We stepped off the plane. She flew from Parma. I flew from London. And we stepped off the plane at Ibiza Airport. And we were like, fuck yes. Freedom. Oh my gosh. It is the best thing to do. Genuinely. Why have you not told me to go? No, I have. Oh, right. Yeah, no, you probably have actually. And do you know what? It could have been anywhere. Yeah. It didn't have to be. Well, the fact that it was there was even more special, I think. But just to have a girlfriend with me for three days.

2:47We slept in till 10 o 'clock. We drank Palomas. We went dancing. We had a spa. We just did what we wanted to do.

2:55Georgia Dayton: Yeah. it's so nice and like i know you know it's lovely when you go go away with your partner but there is something so much easier more freeing better just going away with me like it's lovely it's my new thing i'm gonna give myself that treat every single year once a year i'm gonna once every six weeks too much amelia was like what once every year what about october and i was like oh yeah closing parties let's go we went we went um anybody listening that um is a big Ibiza head like myself we went to the new club the new hyper club universe right um means nothing to me but I'm sure it will to other people for goodness sakes Georgia we've been together for 10 years um so it is the new privilege right capacity 10 000 hell right well it was absolutely amazing we got the full tour because one of my mates is the general manager she took us around we had a look at all the different rooms the room that I'm DJing in is called the bunker so I saw that check that out the wild comet is like the bogs of joy at high and there's a dj booth in the middle of the room and all the loos running around it so you literally go for a wee walk out and you're like whoa you can we please go can we go who thinks me and george should go to a beat that's one of those awkward ones like yeah yeah yeah yeah okay yeah i'm washing my hair fucking hell does it not interest you at all no not one single bit who thinks Georgia needs to take the cucumber out of her ass I have been to Ibiza I have been I have no interest Ibiza yeah I've no it's just not for me it's just really not what do you hate about having fun what's wrong with you I just don't really like clubs anymore I like the beaches and the restaurants and like all of that stuff but yeah just not for me anymore it's really not alright well anyone that wants to come with me that's listening meet you at t5 how are you i'm good i had like the opposite weekend to yours complete opposite like i haven't had week i've actually had a lot of weekends without the kids and james but this weekend i was just with the kids and james and we just had like a nice weekend of not much like my mum and dad came over for a roast like we went to football match you know just wholesome stuff.

5:12Georgia Dayton: Wholesome family fun. But actually, I really needed it, like really badly needed it before everything kicks off and holidays start and all that kind of stuff. Well, you're on the countdown to Disney. I am, yes, and I'm going to fully report back on that. You got your Mickey Mouses packed and ready to go? I got T-shirts. I did actually get Axel a couple of Mickey Mouse T-shirts and he said, like, literally looked at me like, no thanks, like, you're all right. Did Messi make these? why would you put me in this he's all about like the rides and stuff but no yeah just just like a really chilled one it was just just lovely um but yeah I mean we're gonna obviously get into today's guest which was a big one we've had her on before but one of the things that I really took away from it is how you talk to your kids and how much you sort of allow them to know about the world um and i think we've had this conversation a lot like about luna's like super inquisitive axel is but he's so sensitive and how much information they can take on yeah and what is the right age to give them that information yeah we were walking around london yesterday because they came to work with me when i was doing my radio show and as we were walking around um you know we unfortunately and very sadly saw a lot of homeless people yeah sleeping rough and luna was so devastated by that um kit turned around and said i wish i had my pocket money bank card so that i could go and get all the money out and give them to give it to them and you know we talked a lot about how you get yourself into that situation how it happens how easily it can happen what we can do to help you know and i i suddenly thought gosh i don't think i was aware of the world on that level at the age of seven um but it's really important for them to know what's going on within within reason I felt comfortable discussing it with them but today's guest sees that times a thousand the job that she does is a job that is so far removed from our world and I I'm just so impressed by her every time we speak to her and every time I see her on social media and watch her films I just think wow what a super duper you've got to hear today's conversation Georgia who are we talking to we are chatting to Noelle Al McGaffey I think it's safe to say that But both Georgia and I are so looking forward to today's conversation.

7:30The last time we had today's guest on, we were right in the thick of it with COVID. And you were right in the thick of it. She was about to go back to work. And this is not just your regular nine to five job. Award winning journalist, three times Emmy award winner. She is a mummer to two now. So we can't wait to talk about that. It is Noelle Almagafi. Have I said that right? You have. That was a lovely introduction. Thank you. It's so good to be back. So lovely to meet you in the flesh. I know. I feel like I know you guys because I see you and I hear you all the time. But yeah, so good to meet you in person in Alphansi Studios.

8:10Georgia Dayton: Yeah. And I can't believe the last time you came on, your eldest was in the next room and you were preparing to go back to work. And we were talking about, you know, like how, you know, how it's going to be and all of that kind of stuff. And now you've been doing that for four years. Yeah. And had another baby. It's been absolutely mental. I feel like my life is such a roller coaster right now. Or I think the better comparison is like a hamster wheel. Yeah. You just keep on running. Like you haven't got any time to stop because there's so much going on. And especially with two, the juggle is so real.

8:44But I think with two, you have a lot more perspective, right? And you just handle it better, I feel. Or I mean, for me, it's just been so much easier. The second time around. Yeah. Yeah, because we say that a lot, that we say from zero to one, it's an absolute shit show. But one to two, you know what the chaos is like. Exactly. You can kind of just like you said, it's just rolling with the punches a little bit more. It's like I think what happens is with zero to one, your whole life changes. Right. And you're adapting everything to this new human joining the family. You're like changing your relationship with your partner, your home.

9:19Everything changes. your relationships with your friends change and then once that settles and you bring a second one in obviously it's a lot more work and I do think it is double the work but then I feel like my daughter has a friend now and isn't that relationship the most beautiful thing the best it's the only thing keeping me sane really yeah and also I think because of my work because I travel loads she's not alone yeah and that makes me feel so much better just before we get into the

9:47Georgia Dayton: chat and there might be some people listening who haven't listened to the original episode so do you want to just give people a little insight into your job I mean we've touched on it but just just let the audience know what it is that you do sure so I'm a war correspondent at the BBC I do a lot of reporting from conflict zones for long-form documentaries and I also do a lot for news I mean when we were last speaking I was only doing the Middle East but now my role's expanded I'm doing, you know, worldwide. So, you know, last week I was in Ukraine. A few weeks before that I was in Haiti. So, yes, I'm constantly traveling, trying to get people's stories and give them a platform.

10:27And it's an exciting job, but it's definitely a very challenging one with kids. I mean, for me, what you do is quite possibly the hardest, you know, most challenging role out there, because now you're a mother as well and you have your own children to to go to the places and see what you see to then be able to compartmentalize that and then come back and you know take the bins out and change the nappies I don't know how you do it I know it is hard I'll tell you something I think becoming a parent really did make me so much better at my job really um yeah because I I just feel like I have this empathy in me that I didn't have before becoming a pet.

11:09And while I did have empathy, but maybe I can understand the struggles of the moms I'm interviewing. And I see things that maybe don't seem so horrific to people. Whereas before, you know, if you saw someone getting killed, then you felt like it was horrific. But now I'll just speak to a mom who tells me the most basic thing. And it really hits home with me because I'm like, how could you not be able to feed your kids? Like, what do you do? Or, you know, even if nothing has harmed a family, I think, how are they able to raise their kids in this situation? Like this is, you know, so unfair and so brutal to a little child to have to live through.

11:47And I feel like I just feel it a lot more. And yeah, I mean, of course, being a mom and going into these places, it's so much harder doing it now that I'm a mom. I feel like I never realized how selfish I feel this job is until you've got kids in the mix and you think, oh, my God, I'm going to leave them. Yes. And I'm going to go to this place. And, you know, it is quite risky. Do you feel frightened? I do now. I mean, I did always feel frightened and I always say this to my husband. Right. He's always like, be careful. You've got kids now. And I'm like, I never wanted to get killed before I had kids.

12:26Yeah, yeah. But I would say that, you know, I do think things through 10 times more. And I do ask so many more questions to like the risk advisors that we have of if this happens, how are we going to get out? What's your plan? How far are we willing to go? And I'm way more careful. And I just think that comes with experience rather than the fact that I have kids now because I always wanted to be safe. but now that I'm a more now that I'm more experienced I'm able to draw lines and say no I'm not willing to do that that's right what are the lines I don't know every situation is so different um but you know you know I'll give you an example like we were in Ukraine and we went to eastern Ukraine and we were very much like on the front line but not where the soldiers are so maybe I would say about 500 meters away from where Russia is and the soldiers were like you know we can take you in further and I was a bit like but we can kind of tell the story from here also and I think pre-kids you would have gone in with them yeah but not because I was fearless and I didn't care but because I felt like those things were career defining and I was so kind of I really wanted to be successful that I was willing to push myself maybe past the limit that I really wanted to if that makes sense whereas now I'm like no I'm fine with settling from where we are here boundaries yeah and now I realize that actually makes no difference yeah um when we spoke to you

14:01Georgia Dayton: last you were just preparing to finish maternity leave and go back to work now so many of us when we talk about going back to work after kids it's very much around nursery logistics and you know preparing the the walk to the nursery how long is it gonna take to get to work and get back and all of that what was that like for you like the first time you left to go somewhere that it was so awful actually the first trip was so bad and the first trip was Norway I mean couldn't be safer but I I went on my first trip and like you said, like I had the nanny in place and that fell through like a million times.

14:41And I kind of tried to set everything up. And then I got to Norway. Actually, just before we went, my daughter had one spot. And I thought, please don't let it be. Please. Like, you know, and I kind of just put her nappy on, sent her to nursery. And I was like, OK, I have to go. And then just before leaving for my flight, the nursery called. And they said, oh, she's got four spots. Red button. And I was like, four spots of what? And she said, you have to take her to the GP because we're suspicious it's chicken pox. And I was like, OK. So I went to the GP and my nanny at this point was like this elderly lady.

15:18She's like approaching her 70s. Came with me. And then the GP is like, this is chicken pox. And you need to make sure that she doesn't go anywhere near anyone pregnant or anyone elderly. and I was like well hold on a minute 68's not elderly is it that was exactly it and she was like are you sure she's had chicken pox before and I left and I was like Nana have you had chicken pox before and she said I think so I was like yeah you definitely have here's Nora and Nora still seemed quite fine because it just started and I had like a six camera shoot waiting for me in Norway there was like a huge production they'd spent tens of thousands of pounds on this and I had to be there to do these interviews and then I remember calling my boss and I was like um Nora's got chicken pox like I don't know what to do and she said oh I remember when my son had chicken pox I had to go to South America and it was fine he survived and I was like okay so you really want me to go to this so I'm gonna go um and I sucked up and I went and when I got to Norway what was so interesting is everyone there I got there and they could see like I was really stressed out and then the director who's Norwegian was like you must be with your child what are you doing here oh because they've got such a different view and outlook on it yeah and even like the simplest things like I was pumping and someone bumped into me in the toilets and she was like why are you pumping milk for your child in the bathroom you'll come back to the meeting right now and pump I was like I don't want to pump in front of the other guys she's like no it's fine we all do it and she literally dragged me in and I had the lv pups yeah yeah well i was in this meeting like they just have such a different outlook and it's so supportive and he was like we're gonna cram all these interviews into this one day so you can be there tomorrow oh wow and he did he crammed it and they fudged it the next day without me and i flew back and she was like covered in chicken pox and i thought you know in those moments you think this is it this is what every trip is going to be like like especially with your first and very early on like my life is screwed I'm never going to be able to do this properly how can I go further than Norway if this is what happens when I go on a trip and I remember just like spiraling thinking you know this is why people don't have kids and do this career it's impossible yeah I mean I think any career that takes you away from your kids over long periods of time is so difficult but then you put yourself in a situation where you're exposed to you know the level of trauma that you have to see day to day we have no concept of that we can turn the telly on and we might see something from Haiti or something from Ukraine but you are there yeah how do you then come home and be a mum it is tough I've got to say I think I do try and completely switch off from work when I'm with the kids and you know like recently I will come home from work and just put my phone away and try and hang out with them and be with them and there is no greater way to switch off from work and completely forget all the trauma and all the stuff I've gathered in these places than spending time with my kids like being with my friends or whatever it's great but it's not the same like when I'm with the kids they have no concept of these things so they never talk to me about it they never bring it up and it's the best way to get away and that's actually been really positive work-wise I do feel like it's really put a line between my work life and my home life in a way that didn't exist before I was going to say that do you feel like now you have that real kind of clear boundary and you've set those rules around it that it doesn't doesn't come in through the front door we don't you know before I put a piece together and come home and be like oh do you want to watch it to my husband and say oh tell me what you think or I'll talk to him about a trip as soon as I get back and then we saw this and this happened and now the kids are there all the time.

19:16I'm like oh you know I don't want to talk about it in front of them and so then we don't have time to talk about it. And so yeah it really has put a clear line between both and that's been really refreshing. We'll be right back after this short break.

19:34That sound could mean a lot of things and when something's going wrong at home the hardest part can be figuring out what the problem actually is. At Thumbtack, you can upload a voice message or a photo, and our AI-powered search will help diagnose your project. Plus, the pros we know have over 14 million five-star reviews, so you can hire with confidence. Thumbtack. We know homes. Hire the right pro today. It takes the hits, runs the miles, rebuilds while you sleep. It's felt every fall, every dance floor, every belly laugh. And in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor and this is Back Your Body, the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have.

20:22The one you have with your body. From scars to self-care, the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love, we're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them or finally learned to listen to them. it's time to back your body the way it's always back to you. Back your body. Subscribe now. Your body will thank you.

20:49Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we?

20:53Georgia Dayton: Is it difficult to relate to other parents? You know, like if you've got someone, you know, at the nursery drop-off saying, oh gosh like you know I've got to go to a meeting in you know Manchester tomorrow and I'm going to be back late is it difficult when you hear like those challenges compared to what you've seen no honestly no like I totally can relate to the mums outside nursery in that way I don't think they feel they can tell me those things even though they should yeah you know I feel I was a secret war correspondent initially i never told any of them what i did why mainly because it just never came into conversation we were all there outside nursery and no one ever asked each other what do you do for a living it was all about the kids right especially when you're when they're so little um and we were on maternity leave and so we would like hang out and have a brunch or whatever and it was only when we got to know each other better that we started asking each other like what do you do and one of them would be like you know I'm in finance or are you thinking about going back to work are you not going to go back to work and then when I dropped what I do it was like wow they were like tell me everything yeah tell me everything yeah or it'd be like oh god are you gonna go back you know and and then that's when I started picking the ones that became my really close friends um but I don't think I I really do kind of feel their pain about going back to work I don't think it's harder for me genuinely I know people from the outside think so but I will like my best friend is in finance and she goes to work and works really long hours and I really feel her pain because I'm like being away from my kids for that long and having to juggle just like a really kind of intense aggressive attitude in a workplace with kids is so hard whereas with my work at least when I'm in the UK my like it's so flexible yeah I do drop off every single day I do pick up I spend so much time with the kids and then when I go away it's like a portion of time where I'm not here how long can those periods be for it really varies so sometimes it can be three four weeks wow um I try and not have trips uh like I try and at least have three weeks at home before another trip yeah very rarely it doesn't work out um like now it's not working out because I'm going on holiday for a month and so I had to put two trips close to each other but more often than not I will at least have three weeks at home before I go on another trip and my cut off is 10 days I will never do longer than 10 days okay 10 days so that's the maximum yeah I'm like I can't you know I've done once I did a two-week trip recently and it was just so long you know I felt like it really really was tough towards the end and I just wanted to get home so desperately um so that's my cut off and I do think at least when I'm home I spend so much time with them yeah cool yeah yeah yeah it's like you have it all it's kind of all or nothing isn't it but when you're with them it's that quality time when you said you put your phone away and it's just you and them yeah because you could be working in the UK and have no quality time exactly yeah and it's like those jobs I find so difficult and when I might work like also when you're doing a job that's very fulfilling you feel like it's um it's you time as well like I'm not saying all of my work feels like me time yeah but sometimes on trips you know me and the team have a great time yeah exactly yeah we can send you to as well do you know what so that really interesting relationship as well that you have with your with your the person that you're with in that moment and this thing that's sitting on our knees right now.

24:40And I think if you can leave that away, like two things have come up recently for me where Doz has said to me, I think the relationship that you have with your phone is unhealthy. And I said, oh, that's rich coming from you, mister I'm glued to my phone and take fucking 500 phone calls every day. I get that all the time. But then Luna said to me the other night, mummy, phone down. And I went, oh my God, I'm so sorry. It wasn't even, I was just doom scrolling. Put it in a drawer. And I had this couple of hours with him where we watched Mufasa and we ate popcorn. and I felt so much less anxious.

25:09I felt present. You know, I know it makes sense, but when do we ever really do that? No, we don't. Yeah, and we're so addicted to that. My daughter did exactly the same, Nora. She was like, I was on my phone and she said, I want to watch TV. And I said, no, you're not allowed to watch TV. And then she said, well, you're not allowed to be on your phone. Yeah.

25:27Georgia Dayton: Yeah. Oh God. Okay. You mentioned before that you obviously leave like work as work. And then when you come home, you don't talk about things with your husband so much because you don't want to in front of the kids when they get older and they start asking what you do I mean I tell them a filtered down version yeah so Nora who's four now she is very clever and she like loves to hear about everything she loves reading she loves she's so inquisitive so observant and I will send her a video from wherever I am every day because sometimes the time zones are really annoying and I want the nanny to open this video message every morning when they wake up so I sent her this video from Haiti and it was from the beach and there was like loads of rubbish um and I was like I'm in Haiti look there's so much rubbish on the beach and then I said and you know what that does a lot of people here are getting cholera and cholera makes their tummy hurt makes them really sick and it's because they keep throwing the garbage on the floor and I was trying to oversimplify and apparently she saw someone throw garbage at nursery and some rubbish.

26:34And she goes, be careful, you're going to get cholera. She's already the smartest person in the room. Yeah. And there's adults around. So Nora told her friend that they might get cholera for throwing rubbish and all that crap.

26:47Georgia Dayton: Sorry. Will you tell them, like, what you've seen? No, not in that. I was going to say, because I've even, you know, you mentioned before we started recording some of the stuff you've seen, and I feel like... And I can't imagine like how, but then how can you not? I don't know. I feel so conflicted because I think if we don't know about it, then that's not great. No, because they're much of a personal. Yeah, exactly. But they're so tiny, right? Like I remember my first film was about starving children in Yemen and I didn't have kids then. And the producer that worked with me, she had little kids and she told me that this is the hardest film that she had ever worked on and she she never came with me she just saw the pictures when we came back and then she told me that her kids wouldn't eat dinner one night and so she said you know do you know what we've been working on there are kids that don't have any food and they're starving and and and she showed them and then she said after that they would just like eat all that they were so terrified that she she was actually worried that it wasn't healthy yeah and that really stuck with me and i thought you know they're so tiny they just don't understand and also like there's so much cruelty and evil in this world do you really want them to know about it so little like why can't they just be these pure little creatures yeah that's i think the world is so wonderful and you know the greatest hurdle in life is having to queue up for the slide in the playground that's such an interesting point isn't it about how much do we protect them yeah and how much do we give them the truth and I really think it is child by child and obviously it's a completely personal thing.

28:27Some kids can handle, my daughter Luna, she is just the biggest question to ask her about life and she wants to know about finances, she wants to know about poverty, she wants to know just everything we have to discuss whereas Kit is a bit like la la la la la la. He just doesn't really give two shits about it. So I don't know, I think you're right, I think there's a time and a place for that but on that level of atrocity, I don't know whether there's ever a right moment. Is it better just to not know? I would never not answer the question, I think. Yeah. If like she's at an age where she starts asking me about things she's heard about or things that are going on in the world and with social media you really can't hide anything, can you?

29:04No.

29:04Georgia Dayton: I was going to say that because my son is really sensitive, like so sensitive he can't even watch Minions, right? Because he gets too scared of what's going on and what that's going to lead to and all that kind of stuff. So he can see a snippet of news on the TV and then he asks me so many questions. And I have to be so careful with the amount of information that I give because you could watch the news for like two minutes and get the completely wrong end of the stick. You know, like he could watch it and then play out the rest in his mind. And then his imagination. Yeah, which I think is really difficult because you don't know whether just to give the facts and be like, this is what was happening.

29:46Georgia Dayton: or protect them from it or you risk them just making it up yeah it's so difficult right I don't know I think my kids are so tiny still yeah I haven't like reached that point but I think when she's older I would definitely want to try and answer the questions you know in as much detail as she can handle at her age because Nora's the same she's so sensitive she can't watch fighting in a cartoon or you know we went to moana and she like ran out crying yeah to the tumor yeah we went to she watched frozen and she was so upset about the parents dying and that also makes me question why they have parents dying right at the top of the film how long you got mary poppins right yeah the nanny leaves and we watched that at the theater and my son had to we had to leave To leave in the interval.

30:39Georgia Dayton: She was so devastated that someone would leave children. And I was suddenly like, actually, why does that happen? It's got a new job. It's paid her more money. Just go. We'll be right back after this short break.

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31:37And in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor and this is Back Your Body, the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have. The one you have with your body. From scars to self-care, the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love, we're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them or finally learned to listen to them. It's time to back your body the way it's always back to you. Back your body. Subscribe now. Your body will thank you.

32:13Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? How has becoming a mother changed the way that you report on stories involving children and families? We touched on your empathy, but what else has happened? I mean, empathy, I think I'm just so much more careful. I'll give you an example I think I was in Haiti recently and we were doing a story about women who are victims of sexual violence and then we went into this uh safe house and I thought I was going to meet women you know like older women and I went into the balcony and it was all children like little young girls um the eldest was 19 the youngest was about 12 um and I was like are these the children of the survivors and they were like no these are the these are the survivors and and it really first of all it like it really um kind of just shocked me um and in any normal situation i don't know if normal situation is the right word but usually you'd be like okay so we're talking about young survivors let's speak to one of the younger ones to um to tell their story and also for our audiences here to realize how young these girls are um they have to see it but I just couldn't interview a little girl about uh sexual violence and of course like they have their carers there they have counselors um you know the counselors would kind of help us with the interview but I just couldn't put them through kind of talking us through that trauma again yeah um and I was like you know I let's interview the 19 year old um if she's happy to speak to us and share her story with us and then and she was and we just took shots of like uh you know the little girl's hands like we didn't show any of their faces of course um and that was it and I just found it so difficult whereas I think before kids maybe I wouldn't have felt that way yeah um so you know that's one I think also just with mothers I you know I have a soft spot now I find it really hard I can't not break down into tears when a mom is talking to me about losing her child or something happening to her child or anything um and it's because I just feel it as if it's my very own and I just think how would I be able to handle that situation if it with me and those stories really stick with me even when I'm home yeah I think it's very hard to get over them whereas all the like bang bang and the fighting and whatever I don't think it's changed but I also don't think I think it's that important anymore I'm totally with you I interviewed I won't name her but I interviewed someone whose son had gone missing and this was for the BBC as well and they never found his body so this woman was sitting in front of me just the most incredible woman and she said every night I leave the porch light on if I go to the supermarket I write him a note and I leave it under the mat and I say I've popped out if he ever comes back and I just could not hold it together I want to cry now it stayed with me for so long imagine the horror that she's going through she essentially just said I want I want to bury my son where is he and no one can find him and I found it very hard going back that night to my children that happened to me once this is not on the same scale as what you do at all but it really impacted me so much that I I couldn't let my kids go out of myself I wanted to just hold on to them forever interested to hear that you break down and cry because I felt like I shouldn't have cried because it wasn't my story but it's very hard before kids I don't think I would I think I would have been able to put on a brave face but the only thing you can see is your own child yeah yeah no I can't I can't hold in anymore i mean i just find it really hard i i also did this interview in ukraine with he's a grown man a prisoner um but he went missing and then he got taken into prison and his mom thought he was dead for months and i'd been speaking to his mom and then we were in this prison uh to meet him and we found him and so i was like oh let's call your mom on facetime so you can just speak to her and tell her you're okay and the whole call i was literally in the corner of this prison cell wailing like I could not stop crying because his mom was just so happy and I just thought oh my god like imagine just not knowing where your child is like no matter what they've done or whatever that's your child yeah um and I just find it so hard now um but also I think there's a power in that it's nice to be able to kind of feel things with people you interview and really understand them and and people open up to you more like I really feel I have this connection with my interviewees that I didn't have any before and they really open up they go into detail they really trust me and I take that you know I don't take it lightly I feel a huge responsibility to tell their stories really properly um so it's important have you questioned at all whether you

37:15Georgia Dayton: could continue doing the job that you do now that you're a mum whether that's because you know it's taking its toll or whether you feel like it's dangerous has it has it ever come into your mind oh yes a hundred percent I think I'd be lying if I said it didn't and I think you know I do find it hard especially if I see my daughter struggling yeah because she's at an age now where she'd be like mommy please don't go please I really want you to stay and that really I find that so difficult um but I've got to say I have the most incredible husband and he will see how hard it is for me and be like you know she's absolutely fine when you're gone she really couldn't care less once you're gone like which is what you need to hear yeah you do need to hear it I know and I don't know if it's true because sometimes you know I'll see her on the cameras or they'll tell me something from the nursery or whatever um but hearing that is so helpful and I know life would be so much easier for him if I didn't do this job but he knows how much I'm passionate about it and so those few words when he comes in and we're saying goodbye and he's like she's gonna be absolutely fine just go she'll be fine it's it's you know it really helps um and of course I mean when we're in a dangerous situation or whatever I do feel like it's a very selfish job sometimes I'm like maybe I should just go back to London and get an office job and you know I wouldn't feel this way um but you've got to keep telling their stories I know but then there's that and also I think if I always think if Nora is in my position yeah yeah when she is older I want her to be able to think no I can do this you know and I do have faith that like when she's a bit older and I'm able to tell her what I'm doing and stuff she'll be super excited and proud and and so I'm waiting for that really yeah yeah for her to understand how important it is so yeah so I don't know I don't know if it is if I've made the right decisions I've never gone to bed thinking I'm absolutely right I've done the right thing but I know that I'm doing my best to do the right thing and I hope that when they're older they you know see why I decided to do what I do and I don't regret it but I definitely don't want to be older and think oh I wish I carried on yeah and did what I wanted to do yeah and when she's in my position when she's old and she has kids I want her to do all the things that she loves doing and to not hold back um and I hope that I've set that example for her oh my god you absolutely have I'm I'm like hanging on your every word just just focusing on that point have we have any of us ever gone to bed as parents and gone smashed it we've done the right thing you know I know it's different but I mean do you ever feel like that George?

40:00Georgia Dayton: No I literally and I never used to this is so weird because before I had kids I was so decisive like so I'd just make a decision that'd be it done yeah like no didn't question it absolutely now also at the beginning of parenting you were like that a bit more waffy now George before they got an opinion yeah but I feel like the older they get I question way more stuff now yeah yeah I feel like I have no clue but I've got no clue just doing my best what about producer mark you got a clue no clue no clue none of us have any clue well that's great isn't it anyone listening got a clue um i guess talking about like the people that you interview and the people that you meet we we touched on you know the horrific scenes that you had just have to face in haiti with the girls and the survivors of sexual violence and it's quite a heavy question but we've all got girls do you feel obviously there is a story to tell there but on a bigger global issue how do we make a change so that we protect our girls here in the UK thoughts around that it's so hard right but I do feel like just being a mother to daughters no matter where you are in the world as a woman you're just terrified for them yeah you know you don't have to be in Haiti like the stories you hear here in the UK and just all around us are so terrifying that you're just always so worried right about your own kids and one thing I try and do is just to like arm my daughter and educate her as much as I can and I think if we can all do that at a kind of you know at home with our own kids then that's really really important and then also what I want to do is trying to get her involved in helping others um maybe not so soon I took her to a refugee camp in Jordan wow um so it was like it was these tents that had some um refugees in them and she'd been such a brat all day about candy and my mother-in-law likes to give food to these uh refugees every after any meal like whatever leftovers we have whatever she'll drop them so that day i was like you know i'm gonna take nora to drop this food off and i took her and she you know really stayed with her like seeing how they're living in these tents you know they don't have anything and and i think just trying to expose our kids to that even on a local scale you know there's so much we can do here in the uk um i think it's really important because then we're just raising better people when they're older um where they're more aware of what's happening around them and what's happening around the world um so I think those things are really important and and what I want to try and do when she's a bit older is maybe try and do things in schools where I tell them about what's going on yeah try and get the kids involved and like maybe sending letters to children in a place that aren't so privileged like our kids are so lucky aren't they just yeah we talk about it a lot don't we do and it is and it's hot you know having perspective like you must have you know huge amounts of perspective when you come you come home to these places but I think it's important to have a reminder of how like like you know the small things that we worry about yes okay you know it's we all have worries yeah but when we realize how lucky our children are you know yeah and and like you said I think just being aware of global issues that yeah that might be happening over here but it's also happening down the road in London in city you know any anywhere you are vulnerable to to that and it's how we arm them and make them really educated around that so they're not in those danger zones I don't want to take away from what they have I'm like you are privileged and you you know we will make life as kind of comfortable and easy for you as we can and but I want them to have two things one is a bit of resilience to know that life can turn upside down you don't know what will happen next and I've been to places where people you know for me and my kids our own families have had their lives turned upside down by war and displacement and these things but life can get hard and number two is to understand what's happening around you and how other people are struggling first of all so you can have empathy when people speak to you and second of all so that you're kinder people and want to give back when you're older I think you can always do that you don't have to go anywhere in the world you can be doing that in london if you really wanted to and i think it's you know mainly also you come across so many different people when you're an adult you know people who will come to work and you know you feel like you can really relate to but if you go to their homes you realize that they're struggling so much more than you are especially now with the costs of living crisis and so on um that I want my kids to be able to kind of really be aware of what other people have and what they don't have and how to be kinder and you know and I think it's really important I was going to ask you what you thought your legacy would be but I think maybe you've just answered it yeah apart from your kids yeah it's sharing people's stories yeah 100 but I think my greatest accomplishment in life is definitely my kids definitely mine too I'm not joking what would be the one piece of advice that you would give to a parent who maybe is trying to show their kids you know an insight into what is going on around them oh I think I got this globe from BBC Earth do you guys have it?

45:40we have a globe my friend Yalda she travels around the world as well she does the same job and for Nora's second birthday she got her this globe and I looked at it and I was like I mean it says from seven years old I don't know why you're gifting me this but she was like you're gonna need this when you start showing her where you're going around the world it'll be really useful I used it for my son and she's absolutely right I like now I take this globe wherever I'm going and I'll show her the different countries but also I'll tell her so much about what's happening in that country um whether it's you know obviously i filter it big time water it down but try and tell her you know here you know there's a there's conflict and people are struggling they have to move from one house to another or here there's people and it shows you in the video there's like a little screen it shows you that country even if it's something nice like yesterday we had this animal show at her brother's birthday and the guy said australia and nora was like oh are you going to show us a kangaroo?

46:39Because she'd seen on that globe the kangaroos and the beaches and it just makes them so much more aware of the world around them. Yeah. And it's a great way to tell them stories. And now she's four and we use it all the time. That's beautiful. And it's just great. I love that. Yeah. And I got her school report today because she's just finished nursery. And they were like, Nora has a great understanding of the world around her.

47:01Georgia Dayton: I was like, yep. Yes. I got that workshop. You can go to bed thinking smash things. Yes, you can, too. but it's definitely from that globe I think it's yeah it's really really useful well I guess kind of thank you because it's been such an interesting interesting conversation and I feel like I've taken away that it's all about connection no matter where you are in the world we're all just trying to live on one planet aren't we no exactly no it's so wonderful to be back thanks for having me thank you so much for coming thanks no I mean a million thousand miles away from our lives but it really I think it's so important for us to wake up and realize that we may be living here and all that conflict is happening in a you know in a different location but we're all connected we're all living on this on this planet I find it really hard to know like what's right like as in I'm I'm really sensitive to things like that like I I find it really disturbing to watch the news and read too much into it and all of that kind of stuff I almost can't like leave it Like I, that's why I don't sort of go into it too much.

48:05Georgia Dayton: Do you catastrophize? I don't know. I just don't feel right. That's the only way I can describe it. Like I can't shake it off. Like she said, you know, she comes home and she very much tries to switch off. She might still feel like traumatized by what she's seen. But I would just, I'm similar to Axel as in like I just have to. But then I don't know whether that's like, is that really ignorant to be like that? Or are you protecting yourself? Or I do. I find it so difficult to know what's right. But I think I liked what she said, as in, as long as, you know, you're teaching your kids to be kind and empathetic and all of that kind of stuff.

48:42Georgia Dayton: And I guess it's, yeah, I guess it's just how much you can handle. Because you don't, I guess what you don't want is you don't want your kids to be so worried about what's going on in the world that they don't enjoy their own life. And I feel like that about the same. Yeah, it's such a fine line, isn't it? It is, but I think when you do a job like that, she's a war correspondent. You know, we're watching the news. I know loads of people that don't watch the news, by the way. They just cannot see it. I can't. Really? No. But then how do you understand global issues? I read bits. I can't see the images.

49:22Georgia Dayton: Definitely not. I think maybe there's something in that as well, you know? Like sometimes I feel so much pain around what I see. Yeah, exactly. that I cry and cry and cry. And then I think, oh my God, it's gone so far in my head that I don't even think I'm going to be able to sleep. Yeah, yeah. And also you don't, like, I think as long as you're grateful for the situation you're in currently and you have awareness of what's going on, is that, I mean, I don't know. Like, I just, I will look at her and she's talking and I'm just in awe of the position she puts herself in to get the information out there is absolutely unbelievable.

50:00Yeah, and what I found fascinating as well, because we rely on people like Noelle to go and tell these people's stories. If we didn't have people like her, you know, these voices would never be heard. But then also she's a mum of two kids. So of course she thinks sometimes I can't do this job anymore.

50:16Georgia Dayton: So it must be impossible. What a beautiful conversation. Massive, massive thank you to Noelle for coming on today and discussing it with us. And thank you to you guys for listening. As always, we would love you to rate, review, subscribe and please give the podcast a follow so you don't miss an episode yeah and if you've got any feedback on this episode or guests you'd like to hear from drop us dm on instagram we're on at made by mothers and we'll be back on friday

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51:27And in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor and this is Back Your Body, the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have. The one you have with your body. From scars to self-care, the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love, we're talking to people about the bodies they live in. how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them, or finally learned to listen to them. It's time to back your body the way it's always back to you. Back your body. Subscribe now. Your body will thank you.