Olivia & Alex Bowen Get Real on Parenthood

0:28Zoe and Georgia will be here in just a moment with Made by Mummers. know you're born on your podcast app and hit follow so new episodes land straight in your feed. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman and I'm Georgia Dayton and this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, We're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands.

1:05And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? A very, very special Tuesday today. It really is. And actually, do you know what? I'm going to put it out there. This was one of my favourite chapters of the year so far, I would say. I am going to put it out there. That was one of my favourite ever chats. Yeah. It has a bit of everything. We've got a film crew here today. I know. Are we allowed to say what for? I think we are. Yeah, of course we are.

1:37We've got two amazing guests on the podcast today, and they are filming a show for ITV2 and ITVX. And so the ITV crew are coming in and filming our little old podcast. Yeah. It's exciting. You're going to have to look out. Yeah. And see if you can see us. I just, I loved it. I loved the chaos. I loved how beautifully like honest and raw they are. We need to just say who we're having before we start talking about them. So on the podcast today. Yeah. Alex and Olivia Bowen. Yes. Olivia we've had on before and we loved the chat with her before. Yeah. We were quite shocked by with some of her stories about, you know, losing campaigns after giving birth because she hadn't lost enough weight.

2:22Snapped back. Yeah. There was so much to it. And actually, I think it was one of our most listened to podcast episodes ever, which I'm really glad because there was some really important messages. But they're back. They're back. They're back. They've got a brand new show on ITV2. And you can also binge watch it on ITVX. And yeah, I just, you know, she's eight weeks postpartum. She came into the studio and I just thought, wow, I'm so impressed by her. The way she speaks. She's so authentic. She's so real. And then Alex comes in halfway through because he got stuck in traffic. and it was just a very funny moment where he sort of barges and goes, you're in trouble later.

2:55And it was, that was cute. Because he'd been ironing her dress. That she wasn't even wearing. I love them as a couple and I'm so, like, I really want them to make it. Yeah. And they are. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're the couple that you're really rooting for. Yeah. I think. But just before we get into the chat, we do cover some quite heavy topics. Baby loss, you know, traumatic pregnancy. So if that is particularly triggering for you right at this moment, then, you know, switch off, come back to it when you're ready. But the way she spoke about it as well was so brave and that's obviously something she's been processing for a long time so hats off to both of them, thank you to both of them.

3:32Let's get into the conversation because it's so bloody brilliant. Georgia who are we talking to today? Well I have already said it but I'll do it again, Alex and Olivia Bowen. Today's guests so excited for this conversation. A couple many of you will know and love, they first captured our hearts on love island since then they've taken us along for the ride as they've built a full life of laughter loads of love a new baby they've now got two uh they're business owners influencers and all-round brilliant humans please welcome olivia and alex bowen it is just me right now as you can tell um alex has run into a bit of trouble we're a bit late honestly it's been a bit of a situation this morning we've come to london and my mum is mum in law is with me but obviously with an eight week old it's a little bit more complicated um so we've had a bit of a morning alex is on his way but you just got me for now that's okay you know what though you've got an eight week old baby like most people are not even leaving the house let alone you know makeup dressed and you showered i have showered this i'm a bit sweaty i've got my mum-in-law's boots on thanks Lou um yeah and I've got yesterday's t-shirt on my bra's probably about three days old but here we are like honestly I just it's just so nice to be here thank you for having me oh thanks so much and us when he arrives and Sienna oh my god look she's been asleep for ages so let's just hope Sheila stay asleep full head of hair how was that heartburn I know oh my god I had the worst births when I was pregnant but um she's been golden she really has just kind of slotted in when we had Abel I feel like it was just a whirlwind and this has been but in a different way she has kind of just had to slot in with everything we're doing because we're so busy um it's been a bit bit crazy and how's Abel been yeah he's good I was so worried about the whole going to two children thing like Abel is our baby and he's always been you know the apple of our eye and when it's just the three of you you get used to it don't you yeah um so for him to have her suddenly in his life I was scared and I was like oh my god I've got mum guilt I just felt excited to bring him a sibling he could play with but also a bit worried because I was like is he gonna feel unloved but he adores her like he always calls her baby girl in like a really strong baby girl he's like when he goes to nurse he goes bye baby girl like that's not from me but no he loves her and he's he's been golden he's obviously had to come to terms with it a bit like the behavior has changed a little bit he's a bit louder fighting for attention a little bit but honest we're so proud of him like you see in the show as well um how just loving he is and how fun he is and we're just yeah so proud of him i think you are by far and away not the only person that feels like that i know george and i did yeah and isn't it mad to think back to that to think Like actually you're bringing them a sibling.

6:30What a privilege that is. But actually inside you're worried about the bond being broken, aren't you? Between you and your firstborn. Which it's silly in a way because like we all go through it. And I do feel like it's a really great lesson to learn. The world doesn't revolve around you. That's so true. He's not happy about it. And I always tell myself it's a hard lesson but it's not a bad lesson for him to learn. So I keep having to play that in my mind to know I'm not doing anything wrong. It sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? So, because I think it ruined my second pregnancy. Like, the guilt. You say that, don't you?

7:03Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I don't have any siblings, right? So, I didn't understand that whole sibling bond and all that kind of stuff. And I think a lot of people feel like it. Do you feel different? Because you've not had a sibling. I think so. Do you? Yeah. The whole world does revolve around Georgia. That's what I was going to say. I couldn't relate to what you just said. Because Alex doesn't have any brothers or sisters. So, he's an only child. And I always joke to him. that I'm like, you have only child syndrome. We always joke about it. That's what my husband says to me. He says, oh, it's your OCS.

7:34Only child syndrome. Oh my God, I'm going to use that. Thank you. A lot of people here apologizes for me if I just need a bit of time to make it. He goes, oh, it's her OCS. It's her OCS. Oh my God, that's so good. I'm using that one. So I feel like we've got so much to catch up on. Firstly, congratulations, obviously, of the new Bubba. Little one. Secondly, Parenthood. ITV2, ITVX. Tell us about your new show. honestly it it is crazy because i mean 10 years since love island almost next year in june will be 10 years so it's really mad to us that we met 10 years ago on itv2 and now 10 years later we have our own show back where we met on the channel that you know made it all happen so it always had to be the right thing for us it always had to be the right thing for us and we always the stars had to align and they just haven't for such a long time like we've been on other projects or the time like time has not been right or there's something going on and suddenly like we were presented with the opportunity and it's just been a whirlwind and there were so many things that we were like kind of considering and not worried about but just unsure of because putting you know your kids on tv that's a big decision um but the production company that we're with are just so genuine and so caring and considerate with the kids and we had a lot of um rules that we wanted to sort of stand by like we did a bit of research we were looking at some reality tv where some kids are in their nappies or they're filmed being toilet trained like that's just something we're not comfortable with and we had to kind of research into what we were comfortable with and how we would make it work so we've tried to protect them as much as possible whilst doing something we love that is part of our job but funnily enough abel absolutely loves it oh he's the showman yeah he's literally the star of the show he constantly asks where's the cameras where's they're both called ollie he's like where's ollie and ollie like asking them when they're gonna be a nursery like where's my entourage we've created a monster honestly um no but i'm really happy it's gone that way because we both said if it goes the other way we're gonna have to cancel this like we can't do it yeah the kids are the most important thing um but yeah it's just a real raw honest authentic old school kind of reality tv it's not prim it's not proper it's not glam it's literally you're in the pits with us basically talk to us about this year because it hasn't been that easy has it just talk to us about the pregnancy um so when i found out i was pregnant with sienna we originally found out we were having twins um and that was quite an early scan so i think i was about five weeks pregnant then and we went for the scan and when we got there she as soon as she put that little whatever you call it it's like a wand on my belly you could see the two sacks you could clearly see there was two babies um which was just the most crazy it was incorrect like scary as hell like we were both yeah honestly like frightened to death we were very very scared because we were only expecting one twins is a lot and when you already have a toddler you then think a whole another load of yeah not problems but just a new challenge um so then we started to get our head around it and we started to talk about it and think oh this could be amazing like imagine all of us on holiday and do we need a new car like what rooms are they gonna have are they gonna share a room are they gonna be a girl and a boy like your mind completely wanders and you start bonding with both of them immediately and sometimes I think to myself why did I go for that early scan but where I have like quite bad anxiety I was like I need to know if the one in there is okay and it turned up to be two um and then we went back at eight weeks to double check it um because one of them was a little bit smaller and sadly one of them just didn't have a heartbeat anymore um it's called vanishing twin syndrome basically and it just it's literally what it sounds like the baby disappears so if you never went for a scan you may not realize that they were ever in there in the first place um because over the next course of sort of four to six weeks that baby just got smaller and smaller and then disappeared into my body oh my god it just disappeared i know it's crazy well this is what we sort of spoke about and i decided to talk about it publicly because it it would just help so many women and i had no idea it had a name for it like i had no idea that it was called vanishing twin syndrome didn't know it was a thing so to then open up about that and the amount of women that had like actually gone through it as well was just crazy to me it was about i think i had about a thousand plus dms from women just messaging me about their stories and saying how much it helped them so the reason i can talk about it so factually now is because i've done a lot of work like I think if you were speaking to me you know when it happened or a few months ago I probably would have broke down in tears but I just feel like having her now in my arms it's just it's processed differently and we've gone through it and was it a feeling of grief yeah massively like I was in bed for days I barely brushed my teeth I wasn't like I wasn't wanting to do anything which again was so hard because I had Abel you know like wanting to play and I just didn't have it in me but then you had the the joy of knowing that the other baby she was in there now I can see her I'm like oh my god like she was in there the whole time whilst I was also feeling upset and angry and it was every emotion under the sun that's the only way I could explain it yeah it must be so difficult to have those contradictory feelings yeah and to be happy and feel guilty about being happy yeah yeah I just that was the problem it was like you couldn't stick to one emotion for more than five minutes you'd be able to focus on being happy because you had the little baby in there and it's all exciting and oh you've got to tell people and what you're having and then suddenly you'd be hit with like oh I've lost one and it's like dying inside of me right now like it was a hard thing to understand what was there comfort from the dms and the conversations that you were having online massively uh there was there's one I really remember and it was a woman I think she was in her 60s and she said she's never spoken to anyone about her whole life and she never knew what it was called never like just ignored it never told anyone and I think she only had a conversation with the doctor about about it and she was like I finally opened up because I saw you have and I was like this woman has gone her whole life and just from me speaking about it like little old me like thinking it's going to help someone like that is why you do it like we have this platform and I think that's the reason why we wanted the show to be so real and authentic as well because we've seen what it can do like you know we're not it's like saving the planet or anything by sharing but you're helping some people and it just feels so amazing like is the support you get back is incredible yeah people want to see a representation of real life don't they absolutely they do and i think it's so easy especially with social media now we see so many people's like lives all different lives but the majority are sharing their best bits yeah and so like actually seeing the real stuff 100 % I think it's changed a lot like you know when Instagram first come out it was very real and then it went like curated and then it's starting to go back again which is quite nice yeah it is it works for me because I can't get dolled up that often to go on Instagram you've got your mother-in-law's shoes on they're amazing I love them they're cute though thanks tell us about your birth so obviously you know a traumatic start to finding out that you were having a second baby um and then talk to us about sort of how the months went and then leading into the labor so I was quite anxious the whole pregnancy I think where we lost one I was then just worried that something else would happen because I kind of thought to myself oh if that's happened then surely it can just happen again you then realize how fragile everything is um but in saying that I I was quite sick as well it was just a very different pregnancy to Abel I had kind of no idea with Abel like he was it was so easy that pregnancy so it was quite different this time around and I was planning for a home birth okay um and I had doulas and we did lots of like work and they came over and hypnobirthing yeah hypnobirthing I read lots of books what made you want to do a home birth it was the experience I had with Abel in the hospital and I read my birth notes and there was a lot of things that happened that probably could have been avoided if I had a bit more knowledge um there was a lot of intervention that probably you just don't know but that was kind of the initial can I do this differently and should I do this differently because maybe that scenario wasn't right for me and I do think women owe it to themselves to explore other options like any option you want to choose for your body is fine and is the right decision for you um so I kind of just wanted to give myself that grace to try something else and I'd always like the idea of it it didn't go that way though what happened um do you know what everything was fine at home and I actually like got part of the experience that I wanted to I was able to be at home I went in the pool at home and I think I was laboring there for like 10 hours it was quite long but I felt something that I recognized from abel's birth that felt a lot worse this time around and the whole reason i was then taken into hospital was because of a bladder prolapse which had so it was so severe that it had blocked the whole exit for her to come out so i physically couldn't give birth vaginally anymore um so we had to come in did you know about the bladder prolapse before I think it had happened before but they hadn't felt it or noticed it it wasn't as severe like I said as this time around so I don't know whether it was just missed um and yeah this when I felt it my I felt it myself and I was like this isn't right like something isn't right and the midwife was like no it might just be like swollen um but did you feel it yeah I could literally feel like the part of my bladder yeah basically which you think you'd be scared at that point but I was like you're so far gone you're so in it aren't you have no idea what's going on but it just really more than anything taught me to listen to my body and listen to myself and you just know yourself so well because even the midwife's like no it's nothing it's nothing but I was like no this is not right I can feel this is not right and as soon as we got into hospital the doctor checked me and i literally saw her face go like her eyes widened she was like oh god yeah she was like you've got a really bad i can't remember what the word is um but she was like it's quite bad you can't give birth vaginally like you're gonna have to have a c-section so like that was pretty dramatic but then um we went in for the c-section i did end up having a bad hemorrhage i lost 2.8 liters yeah so i ended up having two blood transfusions as well i don't know why i'm laughing it's not funny it's just hard yeah yeah yeah when i talk about it i'm like oh yeah that was quite a lot and then now i'm sitting i'm like well i'd do it again i know i know you just it's funny isn't it the way the mind works like you know i really nearly died there but i'll just do this again and it's hard to talk about because i don't want to fear monger anyone and this comes with a lot of like trigger warnings because i don't want anyone to fear birth because it's not something to be feared like there is risk in everything and the home birth wasn't part of what ended up to be the bad the bad part and I think doing it all the work I did with the doulas preparing for it I learned to listen to myself and actually all of that I didn't feel I didn't feel like I failed whereas the first time I felt like I failed I really struggled with that but this time around I'm like no I didn't I I listened to myself and I made decisions and we got a little bit of what we wanted.

19:35So, yeah, that I'm so glad you didn't feel like you failed because because listening to your body in that moment, I'm really, you know, I think in the chaos of labor, sometimes it can be just fast. It can move quite quickly, can't it? And you don't really you're not really aware because you're kind of it's almost like you're above yourself in that moment. So for you to actually identify and go, no, something's not right here. I mean, imagine if something had happened and you were, you know, it was a positive thing, really. And I think as well, anyone listening to this, you know, on this sort of scaremongering thing, I think that this is proof that doing all of that stuff before, whatever happens in your birth is so worth it.

20:13Whether you want to have a home birth or you're having a C-section, whatever it is, if you learn to listen to your body, you're going to put yourself in the best position. This is the thing, and I feel like people sort of say, oh, I don't want to plan for that, because what if it doesn't end up the way I imagined? but that's not what you prepare for. You prepare for sort of every eventuality. That's what the doulas are trying to prepare you for. That's what you're learning about. That's what the hypnobirthing is for, to keep you calm in a situation where it could go to plan B, to plan C, plan D maybe.

20:41There's got to be a lot of backup options. I love hearing about birth. We've heard so many on this podcast and I vividly remember, was it Erin McNaught coming on? And she was telling us about her birth and Olivia, she basically said that she stood up pushed went and she went then my baby just came out she's Australian just in case you're wondering what that accent was and I was like oh my god this is amazing that's the kind of birth I'm going to have a second time around didn't every single birth is so different but so wonderful and I really thought the second was easier like everyone was like oh it will fall out that's another thing isn't it mine did not fall out what was that like a sausage down a tunnel would have just cascade out I was talking to someone yesterday though and they said she literally gave birth on the toilet like it just she just what fell out no she went for a wee and the baby come out yeah do you know in the loo yeah i used to read do you remember like back in the day when those they had those random magazines that'd be like i gave birth to a baby in the toilet yeah like pick me up or something yeah yeah i used to read those magazines so much that i convinced myself that would happen to me so like for years like i'd read them and think oh my god that's gonna happen to me oh my it doesn't it doesn't now i understand that really doesn't happen often it does happen but you think god that mine was so opposite how did you do that teach me that would be great um what's happened since then how has been your how's the recovery been because she's only eight weeks old yeah she's um tiny eight weeks old on thursday weren't you waking up no um she's very noisy so cute do you want to say already um yeah it's been a bit of a whirlwind where we've been filming a lot um i need to feed her do you mind if i know yeah we love this we'll be right back after this short break welcome back to this episode of made by mamas now where were we how are you getting on with your breastfeeding yeah fine like i it was probably the one thing i was actually looking forward to which is weird to say i only lasted for about four months with abel um and then he bit me and i was like i'm not doing this anymore because it really really and he got teeth really early so I was like I just I can't do it um so I really was kind of looking forward to doing it again and just seeing where I can get to oh my no how is it all going well yeah she's doing really well she was um 7 12 when she was born and I think she's about 11 pound now so she's putting it on she's got the super duper mill you've been putting on the pounds well done you it's not easy god it's taking me right back is it you as well no the fit you never forget the feeling do you look at the rock star sitting in front of us the two rock stars it's pretty impressive the first time we've ever had this happen on the podcast to be honest i've never like done it recorded i've normally when i'm out i'm like in public i'm fine but i've not um i've not actually done it on the podcast yet but she's so she's so good unless she you know when they like pull off and then they just leave you exposed you're in the middle of a calf and they like lean their head back and then your nipple is just out and you're like okay great thank you why does it come out like it's braised out what's something to do with the latch I don't know but no she's um it's been full on because like I was saying we we've been filming um so I think I had about a week off yeah after the birth and then we were filming literally yeah on the seventh day so it was very it was a very quick kind of turnaround but i wouldn't change it because honestly i do feel like when we watch it back it's gonna be like a home video yeah forever so although in the moment it was hard and i was questioning like oh god what have we done this is this is very like full-on like they're in our house seven days after giving birth like after nearly dying like what are we doing but actually yeah now i look back and after we watched the first episode last night at the launch.

24:40It's just been worth every minute. But she's been golden. How's the physical recovery been? The first week from... Have you guys had a C-section before? The first week's hard. You literally feel like you can't do anything. I got stuck in Abel's bed at one point. I forgot my phone and I was putting him... He still falls asleep with me next to him. And I laid next to him and I forgot my phone. He went to sleep and I tried to get up. You can't sit up. I didn't have my phone to ring Alex to come pull me up so I was just laying there and I couldn't call out for him because I'd wake up Abel so I was just laying there like this is me now forever um so yeah that first week is difficult you can't sit up you can't do a lot but then you start to feel a lot better all I did personally started to feel a lot better um going forward um but yeah it's all recovery I had an episiotomy last time with Abel and that was hard like oh god yeah they're not they're not fun are they yeah no because you can't sit down you can't sit down or do anything i bought this like ring i think oh yes yeah did you ever have a ring to sit on the loo i bought the my i think my mom got it for me it was like this foam cushion with a hole in the middle i was like this is you know this is glam a real low point was when luna put it on and was wanting to go swimming with it and i was like no that's the that's like the poo ring that I sit on when I'm in the that's not what you think it is what's been the biggest surprise from parent parenthood um I guess I feel like this time around just the way I'm trusting myself with Abel I really found it difficult to rely on myself I just didn't feel ready to be a mum at all um I really struggled to even call myself mum at the start I just had a really bad image struggle I think going from this person who was out all the time holidaying like I was not sure I ever wanted to be a mom so then when I became one I felt a bit weird about saying oh my my name is mom now and I wasn't ready for it and I remember writing in my notes actually um how I felt and like I read it back and like kind of saying how I'm not that's not me and I didn't want to be a mom I didn't want to just be that person and I think I just yeah I really wasn't ready I had bad anxiety so with her I'm like I've done this before like I've kept this child alive I couldn't do this so I just feel like I've leaned into my instincts and that surprised me I didn't think that I'd be able to do that yeah just where I was anxious thank you for sharing that with us because that's what do you think yeah what do you think the turning point was with Abel when did you start to feel comfortable um it was a good four months after that where I i think do you know what i think i realized how incredible mums are yeah and how much you do and how much you can do and it just changed my perception i don't know what perception i had but it changed my perception and i thought well i'm not just a mum and even if i was just a mum that's not how we should be looking at it yeah because i think actually the word mum can have really negative connotations and that's what i think i had yeah like mumsie yeah and like oh they're actually all really negative words.

27:57But essentially without mums, like there would be no life. We would not be here. Also, I think it depends on, I don't know what your mum used to say to you guys growing up, but I had a mum very much who didn't want to be called mum. So even like at the doctor's surgery, for example, if someone lent, the doctor came out and said, is mum here? And she'd be like, I'm not mum, my name's Carol. And I witnessed this real, she's a beautiful mum. she's a brilliant mum but she very much struggled with that losing her old identity and stepping into exactly the same she's never really really come to terms with it she doesn't like being called mum now that's funny it's weird isn't it i feel like there is a lot of women that feel like that but we're just too scared to say anything yeah because then you'll get people like oh you're ungrateful or you shouldn't be one then or you get hit with that and it's like it's a complicated thing you literally lose your identity to become this new human you have no idea like yeah how to run it and I always people always say like it's a job you never like got interviewed for and never had qualifications so yeah it is just it's a really weird thing but yeah just when I realized how much I loved it and how incredible like this little boy was and how I could still be myself it was just a different version I think I just thought I was gonna lose me completely which I did for a bit yeah do you like yourself better now yeah i think i'm a lot more comfortable and i don't know whether that's hitting 30 as well like when you hit 30 you're like right i don't care about anyone's opinion of me i'm done like i'm over it i don't know i think having kids makes you just there's a bigger picture than like what i look like and what this person says about me or you know what party i'm at yeah exactly i'm too tired to party so the only party you get is three exactly what about alex do you think he struggled with becoming a dad because i haven't heard a dad say that they've had that feeling before i remember him saying that he felt like it was hard to bond with abel at first i think where you know we go through all the pregnancy and then we go through the birth and then we're feeding especially if you're breastfeeding the dad doesn't have an instant connection and he said he did find that he found it hard at first to have a connection he's had the same with her um but as they get a bit older he starts to come into his own so it it really is like so up and down and we always say it is just it's just like playing tennis like one time you've got the ball the next time he's got the ball like you have to take it in turn um i don't think we have to ask him when he decides to do it alex where is alex Where's Alex?

30:36He lives on the same time zone as my husband. Honestly. Because that's the time zone he lives on. He's here. He's here. That was perfect. That was perfect. He's joining the podcast. Oh, my God. Me and you are going to have words later. I haven't done anything. Can you iron my dress? Can you iron this? I'll leave this mark then. Hi, Alex. Hello. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much. I'm so sorry I'm late. It's all right. We were just talking about you. We literally were just getting on to you. I hope it was good things. Is she making you iron her dress? As you should be, Alex. Yeah I know but I was late.

31:07You went to a dress fit in. Yeah I had a fitting. And then time got away and then all the stuff, the baby stuff, the cot was all up. I couldn't figure out how to work the cot. So I couldn't, I was kind of just, I haven't put it down, I just put it in the cot. So I had to sort that out later. And then she was like, can you hire my dress for the pod? And now you're not even wearing the dress. I'm literally in your mum's shoes. You're like, this is parenthood. We're getting an insight into what it's like in your home. welcome it's so great to have you here Alex thank you so much for having we were literally just talking about um that that sort of moment where a mother becomes a mother but how does it impact the dad yeah and and we wanted to kind of get your insight into that sort of like first moments of bonding and how you felt with it and was it different from one to two i was saying how you had said to me before about instantly you didn't have that instant connection did you yeah so it's it's difficult to explain like obviously live goes through all the process with all the changing the body and hormones and everything.

32:04You have that instant connection, obviously breastfeeding and stuff. And I remember being the exact same with Abel as well as Sienna. Like obviously I have this love for them instantly, but then because they don't give you anything back straight away and they are pretty much attached to live most of the time, like it's very difficult to have that instant proper connection. But then as like, I don't know, the days go on and then I'm kind of like switching between Abel and Sienna every morning and then I'm cuddling them, you just get, it just grows over time. And what about being called dad? You were just talking about how for a mum, the first time someone says, oh, I'll hand you over to mum, and then you're like, huh, that's me?

32:41Is that me? Yeah. What's that like? Do you know what? Like, I don't know my dad. So, like, that's always been a big thing for me. I've always wanted to be a dad. So Liv wasn't ready to have kids, but when we first met, I was instantly ready anyway. He was like, when are we going to have kids? I was like, oh, my God. Oh, no. I'm just into the hot sex, Alex. You know what I mean? no but like i always wanted to be a dad so the very first time abel said daddy like it was just honestly just like it just melts me every single time you never struggled with it did you like you were quite happy to be called dad yeah yeah like it's that i feel like it's it's the best thing it's the best privilege to be a dad um and like yeah i mean what i was scared about is like when you've especially when we first had abel like you've got to realize that you're not just looking after yourself anymore even though Liv looks after me most of the time.

33:29You're the big baby. I'm a big baby. You've got to look after this little being. Do you know what I mean? It's just amazing all of it. Can we move on to you two as a couple because I think I need to say something here. 2016 I'm watching Love Island and obviously one of my closest mates is a decade ago. So I was watching it with my first baby. Was you? Yeah that's where we had our first baby. That's like the perfect time isn't it when you've got a fresh series newborn baby that don't do anything it was great you got us through um one of my dearest friends is presenting it we're glued to it we've got our new babies you guys come on you fall in love and i genuinely i never wanted another reality couple to make it last it and grow the way you guys have had your relationship is beautiful how do you make it work and what is that secret between the two of you because there's been lots of people that got together broken up this has happened that's and you guys have always been really solid.

34:25Do you know what? I've said this before. I feel like it's so easy in today's society to kind of drift away. And when you are having arguments and bickering, it's just like, oh, I'm going to jump on Instagram and maybe message someone else. Or I'm going to go on a dating website and go meet someone else. It's so easy. But me and Liv are not quitters. And what we've got is something special. And we both realise that. And don't get me wrong, I'll probably annoy her. I don't know. You never annoy me. She does sometimes. You can see me say that. He nearly went and you annoy me. I nearly said it there, but I saved myself a little bit.

34:55No, we do. We bicker, and you see it on the show. Of course. Yeah, you see it on the show. But like I said, we're not quitters, and I feel like nothing's perfect. Do you know what I mean? And people always say, oh, Alex and Liv are a couple girls. I don't think we are. I think we're just a normal couple that just believes in each other. We've got that old school kind of look towards love and marriage. We don't want to give up if anything is hard. We struggled after Abel. that was the trial it was hard like this it was just us so after that it's like my god this is a huge change and I think we struggled to put each other's each other first because you just can't and we ended up stop we just did it we was co-existing yeah it wasn't talking to each other yeah and if like I think you had some pent-up stuff yeah and like because she wasn't normally she would just like air it to me and we just like squash it in but we didn't do yeah and it could like kind of lasted for a while so they all come to fruition and we have like a big argument about it yeah they were just like right we can never let us get in the situation again and i think this time with sienna we've remembered how we was before and we've just gone forward now you're dealing with me being very vocal about everything

36:01it is interesting though because we're the same like since you know we've been parents for what nine nine years now something like that um and i look at how like my husband and i used to argue and communicate compared to now. And I probably would have cringed at how we speak with each other now. We're so much more aware of each other. We were never like that. We never even used to say nice things to each other. Do you know what I mean? It makes me feel sick even thinking about it now. But now we're so much more considerate. And I'm like, oh, actually, this is quite nice. Do you want to leave divorce lawyers open on laptops?

36:38On her laptop, she would Google divorce lawyers Can I just leave it open? As a joke? Oh, my God. Don't get any ideas because I will start stressing. Oh, no, I also printed off once legal separation and just left it in the car. What did he do? Well, he knows what I'm like, so he's just like... Oh, he gets it. Oh, this is a normal thing for you. Oh, yeah, here we go. That's so funny. Because when we first got together, I used to just, like, pack my bags, you know, just, like, leave them by the door. Like, if he'd annoy... I wouldn't say anything. I'd just, like... I don't do that. Give me some credit, you know?

37:10I feel like I've got it all right. We were young. We were like 19 at the time. Oh, that's fine. Oh, God, yeah. You were babies. We've been on a long, you know, and now, you know, we're approaching, I don't want to say it, approaching 40. Wow. Hang on a minute. We don't communicate like that. 42 is great, though. No, I know. You look gorgeous. We'll be right back after this short break.

37:33Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? I think there's something in that acceptance as well that you guys are not going to be the same you're not the same people but what you are now with your family that unit is everything isn't it and you've got to work your way through it rather than just being like you said Alexis we have so much and so many things to be grateful for as a couple like our friends, our family we laugh together sometimes we do say we don't really get time alone at the moment when was it the other day we literally got like an hour together on our own and we were like being nice to each other, laughing, like find each other fun.

38:08I was like, yeah, we do get on. Oh yeah. We do like each other. There you are. I forgot. Yeah. So it is hard because you have to get those little moments, but we just love each other's company. Like we just. I don't think I've ever heard you say that out loud. Oh my God. Don't go for the sympathy. Oh my God. Alex, is there a particular thing or a moment that Liv might do or say, or something that, you know, around the house that makes you love her more? Like, where is it that you put her up as that goddess the most, do you think? Do you know what it is? She's like, she'll do anything for anyone.

38:42Do you know what I mean? If it's like a friend's a family, she goes above and beyond. So it's like, say if, I mean, she's had like chefs come to the house for like someone's like 30th party or something. Like the things that she does like that is so thoughtful. And she'll print, I mean, this is what she does because she's so organized. She'll print off like itineraries and menus and laminate them and like, just, but that's funny. Yeah, you are. Even though that's funny to me, little things like that, it just shows the person that she is, and she is really caring, and that's the thing I love about her.

39:10That's very cute. And then Liv, how are you going to follow that? I don't know. Beat that one. Do you know what? I've said it ever since Love Island, though, is that I am able to be a complete weird and authentic self. And until I met Alex, I was never like that with anyone. He literally, you take any version of me and just accept it. And I don't, I think that's quite rare in a person. and I was never able to do that and I think I just value that so much because I shrunk myself down for years as a young girl to fit into a box of what a partner may want and you've never done that to me. That's such an interesting point.

39:49I love that. Right, I want to go again. No, but it's true. All jokes aside, it's true. We are just a couple of weirdos. Yeah, we are. And just on that note about talking about shrinking yourself down as a girl, How does it feel to be parents to a girl? Does it feel different? It's starting to feel different for me. Is it? I don't notice it yet. Now that she's smiling and interacting with you a little bit. I don't know. Your dad says it all the time. Having a son and a daughter is completely different. And he says, as they grow up, you'll start to realise and I'm already starting to get a little inkling that I'm going to be a little bit more protective, I think.

40:23Yeah, I think you will be. I'm sure you said she can't go out until she's 30. Oh my God, my husband says that all the time in front of the girls. She'll be out when she's young, if she's anything like me. You can go out with your Instagram, that's fine. No, we always say about her, with Abel, when I looked at him when he was little, I got this cheeky vibe, and I already could read his aura. And then when we look at her, she has this such just calming, peaceful vibe. Yeah, she's very like Jen. Yeah, she gives you the, I don't know, just the way she looks at you, she just gives, you can already sense her personality, which might be a bit like woohoo to some people, but I believe in auras.

41:01Oh, yeah. She's a Virgo. Me and you are going to be best in. When was she born? She's a Leo, isn't she? Yeah, Leo. So my mum's a Leo. They're just like quite courageous, calm, happy. Abel's a Gemini and it's very obvious that he's a Gemini. Oh, I'm Gemini. The old split personality. Yeah, split personality. Nicest person, but if you fuck her off, she's going to pack your bag. I'd like to see you later. Yeah, he's very much like full on go, go, go crazy, mad, or he's just the most like quiet, loving, cuddly. Like he's very obviously Gemini. It's great, isn't it? How they're so different in personalities.

41:44They'll be raised in exactly the same way, the same household. There'll be two different individuals. You just can't imagine what they're gonna be. When they're like this size, you're like, how are you gonna grow into a little person? What are you looking forward to about watching them grow up together? oh just when they can first start playing together because i think when he imagined having a sister he didn't imagine that she'd have to do this for like a good like six months before he got anything back um i just can't wait to see them play it's the best thing in the world to be honest though i love it now because abel is so like he's so emotionally intelligent already like he'll he's you're like oh he'll give her a kiss and be like my baby girl and when he goes to nursery he'll He used to, like, obviously when she was in Lou's belly, he used to kiss her belly and stuff like that.

42:28And he's just so sweet with her already. And I love seeing that. He, like, brings, like, you, like, nappy with muslin. Like, if she's dribbled, he'll bring a muslin over. And, like, without you asking. He's a very sweet little boy, isn't he? Yeah, he is. He's a terror, but... And, Alex, you mentioned that you didn't know your dad. Don't know your dad. Do you think that will, and already has changed you as a father? Yeah, I mean, to be honest, like, becoming a father, you don't really know what to do anyway. Like, I feel like you kind of just wing it and you learn on the job. And as long as you're there for them, that's half the battle anyway.

43:02So I feel like, I mean, look, my dad was never there. So me just being there and turning up, like, I just want to teach them, like, good values, like just saying, please, thank you. Like holding the door for people, little things like that. I want them to grow up to be that way and just teach them, like, to have, like, a lot of resilience and stuff. So, but yeah, I feel like not having a dad, like my mom raised me. She, like, she's the best. Yeah, she's absolutely lovely. Like, she's done, I mean, I say she's done an old kid job. She's done a great job. Yeah, and I just feel like just being a dad, it's just like, I don't know, like I said, you learn on the job, you know what I mean?

43:36Yeah, I think we learn, don't we learn so much as well from our own parenting? And, you know, you take the good bits, you leave the bad bits out, and you kind of just try and do the best thing that you can in the world. I always said to you, I really, I don't know why, I just really struggled to say sorry, didn't I? Oh, yeah. I always really struggle with that. And then when I had Abel, I've had to start saying sorry because I'm like, well, if I'm trying to teach you to say sorry, I can't even say it. So I have to apologise. I do things wrong. As parents, we do things wrong and I might say the wrong thing or I might do the wrong thing.

44:10So I have to say, oh, Abel, I'm sorry. And it's really hard. Oh my God, saying sorry to your kids is the hardest thing in the world. I'm like, you're three. It's harder to say sorry to me because I don't think you've ever said sorry. I don't need to. exactly exhibit a yeah that's such a big lesson learning though isn't it big lesson for me that one well what are what are the other lessons that you think that your kids are teaching you already or what are the other things i think to have more patience helping you out with i think patience is a massive thing like sometimes you know when you're trying to do something like a little bit work on the mac or whatever and like abel comes up to me and he wants to play and i'm like i don't know he's just he's just been a little bit naughty and like i'm trying to do something like I feel like I'm an only child I've got that selfishness about me even though I am kind of we spoke about this earlier what did you say it was OCS only child syndrome I'm gonna say that about you now I'm sorry yeah thank you for giving her that word it's amazing thank you I'm never gonna hear the end of that when he comes over to the yeah yeah so it's just kind of like because it was always just like about me and then obviously when I got with me it's completely different she's her own person but then they are dependent on you So like sometimes it's really taught me to just kind of be like, no, just put that away a second.

45:22Just give him your attention. At first I did struggle with it. And just like, he's only going to be this age for so long and you've just got to cherish it. It's hard though, isn't it? In those moments. Because I think sometimes when I lie in bed, I think of that at night. Like, oh, why did I let that moment pass? But when you're in it, it can be so hard. You just get caught up in it, don't you? In the kitchen last night I was going, mummy, mummy, mummy, mummy, mummy. And I went, shut up. And Luna went, shut up? That's not how we talk to people. And I said, well, I did say it like, shut up. That's a joke.

45:55But I really meant shut up. The amount of times I've uttered words under my breath is insane. Don't. What sort of parents are you? Are you helicopter parents? Are you, you know, really relaxed? Bit of both? I think we're a bit of both. I think we're a bit of both. I think it depends on the situation. Like, you're more relaxed than me. Yeah. I think I'm so organised and like controlled in other ways but with kids I'm like I'm not going to win here so I kind of just do relax a little bit with that you're a bit stricter than me yeah it's just like because Abel knows how to say please and thank you and like I said that's a big thing for me yeah and when he doesn't say it but then like I'll be like excuse me like and then he'll be like oh please can I have this and it's just like it's little things like that that I'm strict on but not in like a bad way but we're like you know Abel like has um i've got a horse so we've got a pony there that he rides and i'm not like i'm not scared in that way like i will literally let him get dirty or you know if he hurts himself get up like i'm quite relaxed in that manner i'm definitely not a helicopter parent i don't think normally i'm like you're fine get up yeah he nearly fell off the other day and i was like you're all right get back on it's the right way to be though yeah it doesn't make them frightened yeah it's it is hard obviously but um i just don't want him to grow up scared i just want him to do everything he's got so much confidence and what about your mental health live how's it been this time around you had so so different to the first time i really struggled the first time as we've spoken about like i definitely had bad postpartum anxiety and depression and i ended up having to go to therapy and going back on medication and this time around i literally feel like a different human it's i don't it's not been easier it's just been different i just think like i said i trust myself more and I'm not questioning everything that I do and that goes a long way when you're not constantly questioning who you are like I'm struggling a little bit of body image aren't I at the moment um I think as soon as you get past that six weeks and you're fine and now you have to go back and do this and get your body back and look like you've never ever had a baby even though it's been like you know a huge part of your life being pregnant so that is a bit is a current thing I'm struggling with yeah we hear you on that one that's a tough one especially because of the way the media you know can portray women with that whole bounce back and stepping out with their postpartum bodies which we thought was gone but it's really not why hasn't it gone away i feel like it's got worse recently like i feel like everyone wants to be there's like a new era of skinny coming back in there was like the whole era of like hourglass and kim k and now like it's the skinny thing again and it's just like our bodies aren't trends like leave us alone yeah but i want to be fit and healthy and that's the main thing like i want to get back horse riding but yeah i I think that's currently a little bit difficult for me.

48:41I hear you. And also eight weeks postpartum. Yeah. Oh my gosh. You take your time. It's the career as well. Obviously, we were at an event yesterday. You have to get dressed up and you don't feel your best. And you're kind of racing to feel better because of the career that you're in as well. You guys know. You've turned up for work all doled up. And it's like, I'm not ready. But I'm doing it anyway. Yeah, you are. And wow, by the way. I know. I appreciate that. That's what we said when you got here. Apologizing for being late. We were like, listen, you've got an eight-week-old baby. in your arms I really appreciate that I was like sweating when I walked in like oh my god I'm so late guys we've got to let you go but before we do Parenthood when can people watch it where is it tell us ITV2 Sundays 8pm the first episode airs this Sunday actually so that's Sunday the 12th Sunday the 12th 8pm and then you can watch on ITVX as well you want to binge it we're excited to watch it that's what we're going to be doing I'm so excited to see I'm a little scared but Yeah, we're so excited.

49:39You have to let us know what you think. We will do. Alex and Olivia, thank you so much for coming up. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. So good. Love them. Oh my God, I love them. Oh my God, and having a baby in the studio. I wanted to cuddle it so badly. Me too. The smell of them. Oh no. And the full head of hair. And she was so good throughout the podcast. It's amazing that Olivia's just sitting there breastfeeding. I just think, yeah, go on. Yeah. I don't know why I have to say that. I don't mean it as in like, oh, well done for doing it. it's just like such a beautiful thing to witness.

50:08I know. And actually, weirdly, in like nine years of doing the podcast, or eight years, we've never had somebody breastfeed while recording before ever. Do you know that I went on to Sky News and breastfed life on there? Do you remember? And then I got locked out of my house and had to sit on the doorstep for two hours in the cold. I mean, the second part does not surprise me at all. I was sending selfies to people going, she's sitting on my doorstep, I remember vividly. But yeah, it was a beautiful chat. I love the dynamic between them. It was great. Their show looks fantastic. so make sure you check it out which is it's Olivia and Alex Parenthood and it's on ITV2 and ITVX thank you to both of them for coming on thank you to you guys for listening as always we'd love you to rate, review, subscribe and please give the podcast a follow yeah and if you've got any feedback on this episode or any guests you'd like to hear from drop us a DM on Instagram we're on at Made by Mummers and we'll be back on Friday