Olivia Rubin On Building A Fashion Brand & Being Mum

0:01Hey, Sal.

0:02Georgia Dayton: Hank, what's going on? We haven't worked a case in years. I just bought my car at Carvana and it was so easy. Too easy. I think something's up. You tell me. They got thousands of options. Found a great car at a great price. And it got delivered the next day. It sounds like Carvana just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed. Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. Most all-in-one HR systems are a patchwork of disconnected and manual tools. Rippling is totally automated. If you promote an employee, Rippling can automatically handle necessary updates, from payroll taxes and provisioning new app permissions to assigning required manager training.

0:46That's why Rippling is the number one rated human capital management suite on G2, TrustRadius, and Gartner.

0:53Georgia Dayton: If you're ready to run the backbone of your business on one unified platform, Head to Rippling.com slash AcastBiz and sign up today. That's R-I-P-P-L-I-N-G dot com slash AcastBiz to sign up. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week, we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts, and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you.

1:32Georgia Dayton: Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? It's just me today. It's actually weird. I say it's just me. I have actually got Quincy in the studio with me. Luna isn't very well, so as always, we practice what we preach here at My Bumummas. If kids call, then that is always going to be our priority. So I've got Quincy in the studio, and last time he came in, he actually turned all of the power off, and we thought we'd lost the entire episode because essentially was a power cut because of him.

2:17Georgia Dayton: And so today might be interesting. Let's see how it goes. I don't like not having anyone to talk to, but I guess I'll just pretend that Zoe's listening. I've had a bit of a quiet-ish weekend, I'd say. Gigi is very much in her not wanting to go to school period, which I can't say we've ever really had properly before. I've had like odd days where, you know, kids wake up and they sort of say, oh, I don't want to go today. And you have to sort of coax them into it, bit of bribery, whatever. But this has been going on now for a while. And she keeps saying, I just want to be with you. I just want to be with you.

2:59Georgia Dayton: And I'm quite hard, usually. I'm like, no, you can't, you know, off we go. But today she was really upset. And I just don't know what it is, what's going on. And school parents evening, they said she was really emotional. I was a bit like, oh, that's not my daughter. Because I'm not. I'm joking, I am sometimes. But yeah, I don't know what's going on. It's a difficult one. It's like, it's hard when there's no real big issue. It's not like mammoth tantrums or big, you know, big energy. it's really just she just seems quiet and yeah doesn't want to really go to school she always wants to take something in with her like a little sylvanian or you know whatever it is um yeah I don't know it feels a bit weird I find sometimes when they erupt it's easier to cross with them so you don't feel so bad when you're like off you go to school but when they're being like oh I just want to be with you.

4:04Georgia Dayton: It's actually, you know, it's actually breaking the ice queen down. I do, I've come in feeling a little bit bad. So what I'm going to do is she's meant to be going to after school club today. I'm going to try and rush back so that I can pick her up and maybe get 45 minutes with her on her own before we pick Axel up. And actually, to be fair, this actually leads us quite nicely into our guest today because we talk a lot about you know not being able to have it all at the same time we you know we firmly believe that we can have our careers we can have our families we can have our social lives we can have friendships all of that but not always at the same time sometimes it's you know careers going really well and perhaps you don't feel like you're being as present as a parent sometimes career family life is flying but you feel like you're letting your friends down a little bit or you're not getting to socialize as much.

4:59Georgia Dayton: Now, the guest we have on the podcast today has a huge business, is an entrepreneur and is a mother. And she actually talks a lot about winding down her business for her own mental well-being. And it's not something we hear a lot. So really looking forward to chatting to this guest. we are chatting to Olivia Rubin. Joining us on the podcast today, designer, entrepreneur, mum, most importantly, Olivia Rubin. Hi. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having me. You are very on brand, dressed in rainbow colours, bringing some light to a Monday morning. Yes, always. How has your Monday morning been?

5:49mondays are tough it is a very early wake up in our household on mondays up by six my daughters go to school quite early so they're at school normally by 7 30 wow yes they do clubs they do extracurriculars they do everything like that so yeah it's they're up they're at school i come back get ready then my kind of day begins then the work day begins yes so for those who don't know

6:23Georgia Dayton: who you are I mean I came with my cardigan I have been a big Olivia Rubin fan forever just give um us a little insight into who you are your business and sure yeah so I guess I'd say I've been in fashion for about 20 years now. I studied it. I've worked with lots of different brands. And now I have my own label, which has been going for nine years. I have recently slowed everything down quite a lot. So I don't produce what I used to, which was about six collections a year involved in like the whole rigmarole of the fashion industry, traveling a lot, all of that has slowed down and I've been concentrating more on my creativity, taking it slow, still producing clothes, but giving projects and moments a bit more time and love and care that they deserve.

7:21And the whole brand is really based around that ethos of joy, wearing color to make you feel good and building a community and a spirit around that.

7:33Georgia Dayton: Yeah. Talk to us about the slowing down because I think we hear so much about you know women can do everything and you can have an amazing career and you can be flying around the world and all of this kind of stuff yeah and we hear that messaging a lot but we rarely hear people saying you know what I've I'm slowing it down yes talk to us about the well I think I agreed with well my mentality when I started my business was, I think I can do it all. And I guess I did for about four or five years. I think when I started my brand, it was never like an intentional, I want to build a global fashion label.

8:16I just started making clothes to make me feel better. And then because it grew really quickly and organically, very like into a bigger company, lots of traveling, more people, I think I decided that it was all becoming a bit too much for me. This is across a space of four to five years. So I did have it. I had the kids at home and I was traveling five, six times a year. But I think I felt a lot of stress internally. I felt a lot of mom guilt. I felt like I was missing out on moments. I didn't appreciate what I was creating and the things that I'd achieved enough. I think it was just constantly onto the next project, onto the next idea, creating the next collection.

9:11And that was very much a standard or is still a standard in the fashion industry. You switch from like spring to summer, autumn, winter, you work so far six months ahead and you're constantly on that endless cycle. So I felt that I wanted to slow it down business wise because that wasn't really working for me anymore as well as family and personally. I just felt constantly stressed and pressurized and I wasn't enjoying the business that I'd built, which to me was a bit of a shame.

9:47Georgia Dayton: Yeah, of course. Of course. Talk to us about how it was when you had your girls at home and you're having to fly off and, you know, not be there and missing moments. Yes. I mean, I still maintain that I think being a mom is way harder. Yeah, me too. Way harder than having a business and traveling and designing. And it wasn't all glamorous at all. I mean, my friends who also had kids were like, oh, you're so lucky you're going to New York. You know, you can go shopping. you can eat fabulous food. And I mean, the first few times was really fun, but I would be FaceTiming the girls at home. I'd be trying to help with their homework.

10:27I'd be on school emails, on WhatsApp groups. And I think I found that it was becoming too much for me. Ironically, I found the baby phase very difficult, but as they get older, it doesn't get easier in respects of them wanting you around more often. So I felt that I was being pulled in lots of different directions and I wanted to be there for them. And I missed being there at crucial times. It wasn't always for like long periods of time, but I felt that my role as a mum was being compromised.

11:10Georgia Dayton: Yeah. And what impact did that have on you? Because you said you felt stressed, but how did that sort of present itself in day-to-day life? I'm quite good at controlling it and hiding it. So I guess in a way I would maybe take it out on them a bit, like just being a bit more snappy, losing my temper a bit more often. And it was never really to do with them it was to do with me because I felt you know I was trying to help them with homework and then my phone would ping and I'd have to be immediately responding to an email when really now I've I've become a lot more slow slow paced and less immediate about things in my mind back then I thought if it if it doesn't if it can't wait then I'm gonna lose that sale if I don't reply now then I'm not gonna make the shipment in time like it was a lot more pressure yeah yeah it's a it's hard isn't it between being that like default parent or the one you'll if you want to be you know like it's not always necessary that you are but it's just if you've got that yearning to want to be there all the time but also being the best in your job and like you say like being there to respond immediately yes that's so it's so difficult to maintain I did have a and still do have like supportive family and friends and also colleagues especially who understand now that I've had to take a step back because I want to be there more not that I wasn't there before but I think mentally I'm I'm there in a different space now yeah and was there like Like a turning point where you thought, no, I need to, you know, was there a moment where you thought, right, this is it, I've got to slow this down?

13:04Georgia Dayton: Definitely. I think it was about two years ago towards the end of 2023. And I just spent months creating this 50 piece collection. And we were showing it to buyers and wholesale buyers, like stores across the world. And about over half of it was cut. And then they were saying, oh, can we have this jumper, but we want it with this print on and this shape. And I just thought, why am I doing this? Why am I stressing myself out and going to all this work when all these designs, which I love and really adore and feel like super strongly about, they want to change. And I think it was slowing down and cutting out wholesale that made me realize there were other areas of the brand and the business that didn't need so much growth, like so much excess, all these samples being wasted, all these design hours being lost, it felt like a waste.

14:08Georgia Dayton: Yeah. And so from that day, you decided that? Not that day. I think probably around that Christmas time when I was aware, I said to my husband, I just want to stop. I'd literally reached breaking point. It was a buildup. It was the economy not doing so well people weren't spending the same amount of money all these factors were contributing to thoughts in my head which ultimately was like I can't deal with this anymore and I think my first reaction was I've got to stop or make quite a significant change yeah and what was his reaction to that his no you do you really want this he said because your brand is like an extension of it is an extension of yourself and are you going to throw away all of those years of hard work building it up just because you've reached this point where it's kind of like a crossroads in your business but do you want to actually say goodbye to that forever if you do that's your decision and I'll support you but make sure that you do.

15:20So then I went away and I was just writing down the things that I really enjoy about having my brand and the things that I don't. And I literally just cut out all the things that I wasn't enjoying anymore, which is I want to do it for enjoyment.

15:35Georgia Dayton: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what does it look like today? Today it's very small, but success to me doesn't mean selling in 50, 100 stores worldwide. and competing with other brands. I felt in the beginning of slowing down, I was still comparing myself to other brands, but then I kind of slowly realized that everyone's version of success looks very different. So I am still, it's me and like a couple of other people in my team and that's it. We've got a very small studio in West London. I spend a lot of my time like working from home as well I'm more flexible with my working hours I produce clothes like as and when I want not dictated to by buyers or the industry and I've been working on some kind of cool collaborations outside of fashion as well so I'd say that my creativity and my desire to like paint and draw has been like a lot more pronounced and stronger within what I do whereas before it was a lot of like admin and travel and writing up orders and micromanaging people.

16:52And I don't enjoy doing that.

16:54Georgia Dayton: Yeah. And are you happier? Much happier, much happier. My daughters can see that I've still got my business, which I think is important for them to have like a mother who has like a strong work ethic, but they've seen that I've been able to adapt not only to the climate of people buying clothes and the element of sustainability within fashion but also making myself happier as well which I think a lot of working mums also forget like still don't I still know that the bit my brand is a business and I've got to make income but there's other ways of doing it yeah or I've thought outside of the box to make it possible to carry on yeah and also I think it's really important especially as women to show our children that there's always been this message of the harder you work the more successful you are basically the happier you'll be and actually so many of us know now as you know people who grew up in that generation that actually burnout is like a real thing and it isn't always necessarily the key to happiness and that it's okay to prioritize like your mental well-being as well and there's a balance you know like of course there is you have to work hard in you know some areas of course but not to your not to the detriment of you yes um and I've I mean I try really hard to not say it to my kids like for instance today my daughter didn't want to go to school and I it would be really easy for me to be like oh I'm so sorry because I've got to go to work and I'm really sorry and I don't want to and really I want to be with you and but then I think to myself no because that's sending her this negative message that you know I don't really want to be doing it but I have to.

18:44Georgia Dayton: My daughter said that this morning as well. Really? What's going on? It's so annoying. I feel like they say it every other day and I think because it's so early I just like you're going. Yeah. I don't even like give it a second thought now but I get where you're coming from especially when they're going through changes and my elder one moved to senior school. I mean, she loves it, but it's hard for kids. And I think as a mom, you want to do and make everything as easy as possible for your child or not easy, but manageable. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So I'm, you know, I'm going, oh, you know, she's like, I just want to be with you.

19:23Georgia Dayton: And I'm like, no, I know you do. That's lovely. I'd love to be with you as well, but I'm going to do this and then I'm going to pick you up tonight and da, da, da, da, da. But it's difficult to explain to them sometimes, you know, that you are like, you know, you want to go to work and you're going to work because you want to. And it's not a chore. Yeah. Always. Sometimes it is. Don't get me wrong. But, you know, it's yeah, I think it's that line, isn't it? With being their role model. Yeah, because you don't want to be too laid back. But then you also don't want to be too strict. although my daughter said to me the other day mom you know me and my friends think you're like one of the strictest moms oh I was going to ask you what sort of parent you are so you're one of the strict ones I'm not I'm not I am not strict in my opinion and compared to like my upbringing but I don't know I do feel like the younger generation have it like there aren't so many rules growing up and I'm trying to still keep the rules yeah what sort of rules have you got I'm quite like as long as they try like with their homework and tests and exams then I don't mind but I think it's like lack of effort that really gets to me and I get you know some subjects so they don't like and some are boring and all of that school type stuff.

20:58But I think she's probably saying that her friends think I'm strict. Someone was like, have you revised? Have you done this? Have you done your homework? That's my older one. My younger one is just on it. She's like, is she? Yeah, they're very, very different. Oh, wow. That's interesting. So I think, I don't know whether other moms are like that or not, but I just want her to try her best.

21:22Georgia Dayton: We'll be right back after this short break.

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21:59Georgia Dayton: Reggie, I just sold my car online. Let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did? Yep, on Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame. You don't say. Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Carl, talk about fast. Wow, way to go. So, about that picture frame. Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested. Car selling made easy on Carvana. Pick up these and apply. Most all-in-one HR systems are a patchwork of disconnected and manual tools. Rippling is totally automated. If you promote an employee, Rippling can automatically handle necessary updates.

22:41From payroll taxes and provisioning new app permissions to assigning required manager training. That's why Rippling is the number one rated human capital management suite on G2, TrustRadius, and Gartner. If you're ready to run the backbone of your business

22:55Georgia Dayton: on one unified platform, head to rippling.com slash ACASTBiz and sign up today. That's R-I-P-P-L-I-N-G dot com slash ACASTBiz to sign up.

23:09Georgia Dayton: Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? How do you find this kind of stage of parenting? Because I think we hear lots about newborns, we hear lots about toddlers, and then we hear lots about like the later teens or like, you know, 14, 15. We don't hear that much about this sort of middle part of parenting, which I think is supposed to be the easy bit. but I I mean Zoe and I will always say like we find this bit quite hard because you're not wiping bums anymore and you're not doing any of that but mentally I think the decisions that we make now feel much bigger yes I think because well my eldest is 12 she's going to be 13 later this year and I've seen like physical changes she's suddenly grown really tall and I see them as well like emotionally and mentally as well so I think it's about treading carefully and also just trying to be like act like a friend so I'd way right I say this to her all the time but I'd way rather if she does something wrong or she's not sure about something or she's scared she tells me and she's honest about it and I won't be annoyed or angry than her like bottle it in and I do get a lot of mom can I have a private chat a lot amongst like in our family because it's my younger one as well and they're very close so my younger one's nine and they chat a lot about I think friend friendships and and those kind of issues but I still maintain I'd rather than be like a hundred percent honest yeah I agree but it's tricky because they do at this age I feel like they do go through maybe it's just fine but a bit of a like dishonest phase yeah they don't understand like about lying and that lying is not good yeah I mean it's white lies but it's you know it's the worry that what else will that where does it exactly I always try to say listen you but might as well tell me the truth because then I can help yes but if you don't tell me the truth I can't help although on Sunday my daughter had a friend over and her and her friend they're both they're six so they're still quite young yeah but um they are notoriously I would say they're not naughty but they have been split up at school into different classes because they just are um silent assassins might be the word that comes to me they look so sweet and so cute and they dance and they sing and you know they're like caricatures but if the teacher asks them to do something and they don't want to do it they just say no thanks oh wow and stuff like that so they are definitely they spare each other on yeah anyway they're at my house yesterday and I said to them girls like I need to get ready I had I was I was having people around like nine people around for lunch like I'm going to be busy don't mind what you're doing please just don't make a mess in your bedroom because they're the ones that will go up and get hair chalk and you know all of that upstairs and I go in and I'm like and they're like yeah yeah no we promise we won't we won't we won't and I was upstairs and my daughter's got the floor above so I could hear them and the other girl said to my daughter your mum cannot find out about this right and then my daughter said oh don't worry my mum doesn't know anything oh wow and I was like oh my god do you know what they were talking about well I don't know but as far as I mean they they were being a bit sneaky making like potions upstairs you know like fine with bath bombs and stuff like that which they know I wouldn't want them to do in her bedroom but I don't know I'm not sure but it was just that whole like god I thought like I had that relationship where she told me everything and then I'm like oh no no no no we don't I feel like at six they're probably as you said just like creating a mess or something yeah if she was 12 I'd be worried about what she was hiding yeah I know but that's why I'm thinking that what is to come yeah it's it's full-on especially like hormones and growing up and becoming a teenager it's it's a different ball game and I kind of feel a bit sorry for my husband because he's surrounded by all women girls in the house so he's like how does he find it he's good he's great he is great he's very understanding he's like you know just let them be I'm quite intense I feel like if I'm off to some sneaky information or want to have a chat I'm quite full on and he's very good at just kind of letting them be and letting them come to us so I think together it's a good balance I worry about everything he worries about nothing so together it's a happy medium it is yeah and how are you with like or where are you with like the smartphone phone situation that's going on I know it's so annoying to us, but we're so interested.

28:36I'm not doing the phone yet. You're not? I haven't done the phone yet. So she started, she's in year seven. She started senior school last September. And I said from the get go, you are not getting a phone. And actually she was fine with it. She's very anti-social media. So she doesn't want to be on it. She's never wanted me to put her on it. I've never put either of the kids on my social media unless, until they were older and they had a decision in the matter. She doesn't want to be on anything. And I don't really ever put a lot of kids things on, on. So, um, a lot, and then a lot of the girls in her class, which was great.

29:22The mom said, if we get phones, we're not going to get a smartphone. We're just going to get an old Nokia brick. So the other week, a couple of weeks ago, I ended up getting her, but more for safety and for getting in touch with me. So she goes a lot, she goes out a lot more with her friends, not by themselves, but I found like at that age, the mums don't really message each other as much. She wants that independence. Sometimes she walks to her music lesson on her own, which is around the corner from us. Sometimes she finishes school early and wants me to come and pick her up earlier so it's more for communication and there's no social media

30:02Georgia Dayton: on there yeah and I guess there's only like she can only probably contact her friends direct that's my bag isn't it he's trying to get your phone bag um she can only contact like her friends like via message or um so she's got an ipad and a computer where she messages on that her friends because I don't want to stop her from socializing. And year seven is quite key in making friends. So she does message on her iPad, her friends, and she FaceTimes like in the evenings or weekends, which I'm fine with to an extent, as long as she does her homework and her extracurriculars. I can't be so strict that she doesn't have any form of messaging because then I feel like I don't want her to feel left out.

30:52Yeah. So she was one of the last ones to actually get a phone.

30:55Georgia Dayton: She? Yeah. Because I mean, my son's in year five, the same as your younger daughter. And I was so shocked by the amount of kids who do have phones in year five and who are on WhatsApp and in group chats and all of that kind of thing. I had no. In year five? In year five. Oh, wow. So yeah, my younger one's in year five. And I just thought with my older one, who's in year seven, if I gave for a phone at the get go, then I'm going to have to do the same for my younger one. And I just don't think it's necessary. Yeah. But yeah, I think it's, I think it's like a real sort of interesting topic, isn't it?

31:37Georgia Dayton: At the moment, whereas like, I mean, for me, I don't think that my kids need a smartphone. like I really don't but I do think they need some form of communication because I mean I remember in primary school coming home from school and phoning my friends on the landline and being on the phone to them and that was like a lovely part of growing up you know like chatting yeah and that's what I thought the other day she still keeps in touch with all of her primary school friends through messages, through, you know, iMessages. So yeah. So I think it's great in terms of keeping in touch with friends, but I think once you've got, once they've got a smartphone, there's no going back.

32:19And I hear that. I got advice from my friends as well. Yes. So I also have a time limit on how long they can be on their iPad on weekends. Weekdays, I try to say not at all, but I'm being met with a lot more resistance from my daughter at senior school because her friends message and she wants to message back. So I allow a small amount of time and everything in moderation, but there's still time limits.

32:48Georgia Dayton: Yeah, I think there has to be like even like ourselves, right? I will sometimes, you know, in the evening, my husband and I will be like, right, we can't look at our phones past half eight because it's so easy. Like just to go down a rabbit hole. Yeah. And then you realize you're not talking and you've, you know, lost an evening. And it's not easy, I think, with girls because they, you know, they do have arguments and disagreements. And I said to her the other day, just go and talk to her face to face. If you've got a problem, like if you think there's, you've upset her or she's upset you, just have a face to face conversation.

33:24I think a lot of problems could be solved a lot more quickly. without phones yes whatsapp message she's not on whatsapp but messages and communication on on smartphones just leads to ambiguity and they're not sure if this one's annoyed and that one's annoyed it's all very i think as well for myself if i've got you know a problem with someone or i want to speak to someone about something important it's much

33:56Georgia Dayton: better to do it face to face yeah and how do you deal with like the friendship stuff that comes up with with girls the girls I just I think what I've said recently to both of them is be friends with everyone because I think more so with girls they get very excuse me they get very attached to one friend and one week this girl's a best friend the next week another one's the best friend and I said stop with the best friends you know you're very sociable you you like everyone just hang out with everyone and be be friendly and friends with everyone yeah I do I find it so hard to navigate that friendship stuff yeah because as a parent I don't know if you feel the same but you know the thought of I don't know if you one says oh I didn't play of anyone today we know that's normally not true but you know it gets you you think oh god that's really upsetting but and you and I think your instinct is to fix as a parent like I want to help you I want to help you but then is it better for them to figure stuff out like that themselves I don't know I don't know I all I try to do is relate it to my own school experiences yeah and I know one of my daughters a few weeks ago said, oh, sometimes I don't have anyone to play with and the playground.

35:26And I said, you know what? That's okay. I said, I remember there were weeks or days sometimes when I felt like I actually, school was quite intense and I didn't know who I wanted to play with. And I quite enjoyed just kind of chilling by myself or having a bit of time out. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. So I was trying to convey that to her in a kind of gentle way, because obviously I don't want that to happen like all day, like every break time, every week, every day. But I said, you know, if you're feeling quite stressed out or you're not sure who you want to play with or there's a lot going on in your mind, just go and sit in the playground on your own.

36:08You know, there's nothing negative about having time on your own or I feel the same with adults as well. there's a bit of a stigma about you know going out for lunch on your own or going on a solo trip and I have to say I love it oh my god I love being on my own I love it maybe it's more so at this stage maybe it's more of a stigma like slightly younger but it's like oh or in the past it used to be like oh why are you doing that on your own or do you not have any friends to go with I've always been like it to be honest I love I like alone time so do I I really do I remember

36:43Georgia Dayton: going on like a hen do and I must have been 25 maybe something like that and I would get up two hours before everybody else because I needed to be on my own otherwise I wouldn't have coped in that yeah environment with a lot of girls yeah all the time I just needed to get up be on my be on myself have breakfast by myself lay by the pool and then I'd be fine like it was like little you know but I'm still like that now you know like I still probably even more so now you've got children as well because yeah it's like 24 7 job and it can become intense quickly with work with children with family life yeah absolutely now we're coming towards the end of the chat um and we always like to ask people what their best piece of advice that they've ever been given as a parent or a piece of advice that they'd give to someone else you know your friends having a baby or your friends you know having a bit of problem like having a problem with um parenting what piece of advice would you give I would say don't compare yourself to anybody else as a mum or in business and work because I think it is very easy thing to do these days especially especially on social media we're told you know what what makes a good mom what makes a supportive mom but I think doing things in there's a lot to be said for doing things in your own way and in your own time and I would say just go make your own rules as a mom because I think as long as it feels right to you then you shouldn't be judged yeah yeah I love that and products so we always used to ask people like about their favorite products for kids but it's evolved now yeah because we're most of us are now not thinking about nappies and bottles and stuff like that what start like what products do you swear by for you like day-to-day or like things you love for your kids that you know are real like game changers children's products either like stuff yourself like sometimes people come on and they're like oh wow I found this I don't know electrolyte I put in my drink and it's changed my life or I love this mascara or I love just stuff that you know you have what do I love what do I use every day I it's not one product but I'd say probably skincare and I think my girls have seen me really look after my skin so they've now become I wouldn't say obsessed but really interested in skincare and SPF yeah so I'm like obviously very pale I've never been one to sit in the sun ever like even when I was younger and I've really looked after my skin so I would say like a really good quality like moisturizer and SPF.

39:53Which brands do you like? I use like La Roche Posie. Yeah. Um I use the Charlotte Tilbury SPF with primer, Aborian. Oh yeah.

40:06Georgia Dayton: All of those more kind of like natural looking skincare products yeah and what do your girls like they like a different thing every week they like bubble yeah they like uh rare beauty yeah it's like really you like all this really expensive they love doing like beauty hauls yeah all of this I can't I can't it's it's the equivalent of like what I like like I used to collect stickers yeah and sticker books and trolls at their age now they want to go to Sephora yeah they want to go to boots yeah so since when did beauty replace sticker books I know I know don't I mean my daughter's six and she likes Space NK.

40:58Georgia Dayton: Not that she'd buy skincare because obviously not yet, but like she wants a lip gloss from milk or, you know, that. And I'm like, also how do they find out about it without social media? That's what I think. I think it's from girls at school. Girls at school who have older sisters or older siblings or mums even. But it was a sudden... suddenly they switched from liking slime to Sephora. It's like a very expensive habit. So they've got limits for sure. But I think just trying to teach them everything in moderation, look after your skin, don't wear too much makeup. They don't wear makeup yet, but it's all going to come very soon.

41:50Georgia Dayton: Oh, don't. Gosh, well, thank you so much. It's been really nice to chat. I've loved it. Thank you for having me. Thank you.

42:02Georgia Dayton: Youth mental health is a complex challenge that requires comprehensive solutions. We must strengthen after-school programs. We must make digital literacy tools available in our schools. We must work with mental health professionals to support children. And we must empower mentors, educators and parents to keep kids happy. Learn more about our commitment to finding lasting solutions at empowerourfuturecoalition.com slash solutions. Paid for by the Coalition to Empower Our Future.

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