Real Housewife Panthea Parker Shows How the 1% Live!

0:00Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

0:37You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. 75 % of women who seek menopause care don't receive it.

1:21The lying awake at 3 a.m. wondering what's happening to your body ends now. Midi is virtual care built for women in perimenopause and menopause with clinicians who specialize in women's health. Plus, it's covered by most major insurances. Getting started is easy. You can book your first visit with a clinician right away. Midlife needs Midi. Visit joinmidi.com to book your first visit today. That's joinmidi.com. Insurance coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits.

2:00With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? You're broken. I fucking do, don't I? I think it's killed me.

2:33Finally, I think Ibiza has killed me. Oh, so you didn't, you weren't sober this weekend. No, I did say, if you go back and listen to the podcast, And by the way, it's not because I was drinking. It's because I did three nights of going to bed between 5 and 8 a.m. And then when I flew back on Saturday night, I then had to get up at 6.30 a.m. So I feel like I'm jet lagged. Yeah. Like, obviously, I had a few drinks. Who's counting? But I was obviously working on the Friday night. So you barely drink when you're working because the adrenaline is just like bang, bang. But just a late night. Jesus Christ.

3:11I mean, I could be 10 years older than I actually am today. I looked at myself in the mirror and I was like, why is it not going back up? Who's Kris Jenner's facelift person? Yeah, call us. Yeah, call us. Not you. You look bloody gorgeous. I actually had a facial last night at home. I had the opposite weekend to you. James was away. I basically did. I went out for dinner. Like I just did very, very low key nice things. And then just before he got back last night, I had a facial at home. And it was so nice. It was all like facial massage. And like, yeah, it was just lovely. I'm going to have one.

3:52That was from Secret Spa, wasn't it? It was. It was Secret Spa. Yeah. So, I mean, we're very lucky sometimes. I mean, as everyone knows who follows us, I pay for so much on Secret Spa. Must be one of their 12 customers. Yeah. But yeah, they reached out to see if we wanted to have a facial. And yeah, I had mine last night and I would really recommend it. It was amazing. Amazing, amazing. Okay, all right. So, being refreshed. Well, I'm going to have on two and then we can report back. Well, you look very refreshed. I look like an old hag. Being refreshed. So, a good weekend was had by both. That is me done now for the Ibiza season.

4:28I can finally hang my boots up and my USBs for a while. and just kind of now I'm on the reboot because I'm doing a high rocks in December. Okay. I won't shit myself like that. Oh my God, don't. I saw that. You haven't spoken about it. No, I know. It's just awful. It's awful. Imagine. The thing is, I've had so many discussions about this over the last week and part of me feels that if anyone's going to carry on with shit down the back of their legs, it's going to be the person that wins it. Yes. So there was part of me that was like, well, she won. but when it got down to the kind of hygiene and the fact that other people were dropping out of the competition because I was like I don't know and it I know that it has divided the what the world and I know it's probably old news now but all I can think about is I've already got piles like maybe I could be shitty mcshit pants part two if it happens to me I won't win I'll never work again oh good we've got to get into the chat though because this was a great one we were both buzzing after you know sometimes we have guests on who have got you know very sad stories sometimes we have guests on who are super relatable feel like you know we lived similar lives and sometimes you have guests on who give you an insight into what feels like a different world it is a different world it is a different world but I loved it and actually I wanted to hear so much more but then I I felt like we were just going to be like nosy and I was going to be like, so can you tell me?

6:01Exactly how much money did you have in your bank in the house? How many Chanel jackets did you have? Yeah, it was a, God, it was so interesting. And it was so interesting because, listen, me and Georgia, like Georgia said, we love having everybody on the podcast from every single different walk of life with a story to tell, which looks poles apart from everybody else's. You know, that's the beauty of this podcast is that, you know, someone could sit on and tell us one thing that we've never heard before and the other one could come on and be like, holy fuck, is that your life? You know, like it's really, really interesting.

6:36This was fascinating because it's probably 0.0001 % of the world that live in this form of wealth. Yes. Right? Let's be honest. Yes, it is crazy wealth. And also it was just funny that she then didn't have that level of wealth. And she thought that she was really poor. And we were cracking up. What did I say to her? I said, you do realize that that's absolutely bonkers. That you definitely weren't poor. But do you know what? I loved her. I absolutely loved her. She had such a lovely energy. And she actually didn't take her health very seriously at all. She really could joke. She is amazing. and I really can't wait for everyone to listen to this chat.

7:22Stick around for this conversation. Stick around for the Chanel jacket conversation. Stick around to like, you know, the family that she didn't know existed. I mean, there's so much in here. It's twists and tails. Like it's unbelievable some of the stories she was telling us. I mean, wow. Can't wait. Georgia, let's stop nattering. Who are we getting into? No. Who are we getting into? Into a body bag. Georgia, let's stop nattering. Who are we talking to today? We are chatting to Panthea Parker from The Real Housewives of London. It's Tuesday, which means we are bringing you another episode of great conversation with somebody we are very, very excited to sit down with.

8:01Mum of four. She's currently starring in, is it the second series that you've done? Second series of Real Housewives of London. It's Panthea Parker. We're going to get the goss today. I can't wait for it. Before we get all the goss, which we really do want, how are you? How's your morning been going? paint the picture at home. If it was any other morning, I would say it's amazing. I rolled out of bed, put some makeup on and I came here. But it's my housekeeper's day off. So yeah, I actually had to wake up really early, give breakfast, sort everything out, go a bit crazy, and then get myself together to come here.

8:37I love the honesty in that as well. Well, yeah. I mean, I think that people, you know, think that you can have it all and you can't have it all, not at the same time. And we fought so long to get our rights, but we didn't get our rights to be so tired and to pretend that we can have it all. No, you need a lot of help. You do. And if you can get it, I advise everybody. Like, I don't know, I was speaking to a girlfriend last week and she was moaning and groaning about so much stuff that she's got to do. And I'm like, but you just need to get more help, get cleaner, get this, get that. She was like, oh, it's okay for you to say.

9:07And I went, sorry, you're the one that are going on these whatever holidays. go on one less holiday and have your everyday life a bit more calmer and relaxed so that you can spend quality time yeah and and you know what it's really nice to hear somebody say it out loud because what we talk about a lot on the podcast is that nobody seems to be that open about how much help they have you know people will message us and be like oh yeah how do you guys do it's like because we've got a cleaner and we've got somebody looking after our kids doing the pickups for four days a week. Yeah, you need to delegate.

9:39It's called a nanny. And I even didn't, nearly didn't even say it then. That's called a nanny. Yeah, you have to delegate. Otherwise you'll be burnt out. Otherwise you won't be, you know, on top form for your husband, for yourself, for your friends or for them. You know, it's really, people say it's a juggling act. No, it isn't a juggling act because at some point in your life, something's got to give. And, you know, from never having worked to having my first job, Real Housewives of Plum. You've never worked. Can you just talk here? Didn't even have a national insurance number. Talk us through.

10:12Had to go and do taxes. I'm like, what? What are they? Okay, so this is completely mad to me. Can you go back? So who, you know. Who are you? Yeah, who is Panthea? Behind the camera. Panthea is a, Panthea behind the camera. All I've ever wanted to do is become a mother. Like, I just remember being an only child and having like a million dolls. Who remembers Cabbage Patch dolls? and you know I was obsessed with being a mother from a very very young age and all I wanted to do was be a mother and so yeah I got married very young how old were you I was 20 okay and um I had my son at 21 so he's going to be 31 next month wow yeah this point you're meant to say wow I can't believe it how old were you you're just going wow because we're all you don't look like you could have a 31 year old son.

11:03Thank you. But that's all that's, we should have said that, but that's obvious. And also I think when you, when you see you in the flesh, you realize what a force you are and how amazing you do look. But I'm interested to find out like the non-working piece was that, was that important to you? Or was it more about being a mother? Yes. For me, I wanted to be a mother and I'd never worked and I'd never had career ambitions, you know, for me being a mother and the legacy of being a mother, a good mother and, you know, having your, not, don't mean clean. I don't clean myself, but at least having your home, you have to delegate how you want everything cleaned or how you want everything cooked.

11:37I mean, it's a whole, I want my husband to come home from a hard day's work, slogging it 15 hour days and catching the train. I don't want him to come home for me to say, I'm tired too. And I've been working and go microwave your food. I want when he comes home, the dimmers are on the candle, the flowers, you know, three courses. Now three courses might just be salad for starters and yogurt with some fruit for dessert, but I want to sit down with him because I want him to feel that I'm there for him because he works so goddamn hard to bring you know the money in did you did you marry I'm gonna I'm just gonna did you marry somebody who was well very wealthy first time around very wealthy yes okay so concords and the whole spiel and yeah oh my god hold on yeah I remember boy George was in the concord lounge with me back then and I was so excited oh my god I'd met boy George I was like yeah 21 yeah it was crazy like marrying into that much money I mean I was like a kid in a candy shop I was like I remember saying to my husband oh my god my dream is to have because my mother obviously wore a lot of Chanel but you know obviously obviously no but as in well well in my bubble she did yeah yeah so I used to borrow her jackets but to own my own so I said oh my dream is to have this jacket and he looked at me and went what a funny dream and he bought me seven different colours and I was just like, still have them by the way, they keep calling me vintage and all her clothes are so old, well you know, they don't make them like they used to.

13:01They stood the test of time and just quickly, so when you had your first, we had an amazing hospital, no no child, we heard an amazing story about giving birth in the Portland the other day and everything that comes with that, tell us what your birth was like. So I wanted to give birth at the Portland and then And one night I was lying in bed and I thought my dream was always to live in the United States. And what better way than to go and give birth in the United States and get my son to have an American passport? Because one day I would like him to work there. And I just think that it really is a place that you can conquer your dreams.

13:37So I suddenly was lying in bed and said, can we go and live in New York? And my husband went, OK. So we went. We stayed at the Carlisle for six months. He gave birth at the Lenox Hill. What's the Carlisle? Carlisle's this amazing hotel, like St. Claridge's, but I stayed in like a suite for like six months. You stayed in a suite for six months. Yeah. And we, and I gave birth at the Lenox Hill and I was all alone and I was so scared to leave the hospital. So I stayed in the hospital that was costing more than the hotel was costing for two and a half weeks because I was just so scared to go home with this baby.

14:06What are they doing for you? It was amazing. I think that's where Beyonce and everyone gave birth, Lenox Hill. How long did you stay there for? Two and a half weeks. Two and a half weeks. Wow. And what do they do for you whilst you're there? Everything. Like they take the baby away at night so you can get a good night's sleep. You know, they come and teach you, you know, how to bathe them, how to this, how to that. It was just amazing. Oh my God. So you actually went back to the hotel rested. Yeah. Yeah. Which makes such a difference. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Makes such a difference. And I was so obsessed with having a baby that I just thought, who wants to get a maternity nurse?

14:37I want to do this. So first time around, I did it all. And obviously, I ended up getting divorced and I was a single parent for 15 years. So tell us about that. It was very, very difficult. As in, I've always been a mother, father, everything to my son. But still, you do feel the emptiness when you're standing at that football pitch and watching them play or you're, you know, at the rugby pitch and all the other parents are there with the fathers and I didn't have a father, you know, to be present for my child. You know, you do feel that you've let your child down by not having that. So I think I always had to be more and be more extra and take him on more holidays and give myself so much more to him because I felt I had to overcompensate not having a father around.

15:21And did any other parents react to you in a different way? Because I think a lot of times when marriages break down, you know, particularly the mum quite often worries how the friendship dynamics will change if they've all been friends as couples. How did you find that? It was very lonely. It was very lonely. And I think that I was a very young parent. So at school, all the parents were much older than me. And suddenly, you know, if my son had started boarding school, and I remember at the time, Mr. Bean was at the same time. Oh, Roanac. He was in our school play. I mean, it was like epic. Imagine, like it was like the best school play of our life.

15:56I loved Mr. Bean. Or like, you know, Marco Pierre-White. Yeah, it was all of those kind of parents. and they were much older than me. So me being this young, you know, single, you know, none of the mums wanted to be around me because they probably thought threatened or thought that, you know, husbands or I don't know. But yeah, you did feel alone. So you're married to this man and you have a beautiful life where you can do what you want, buy what you want. What happened? What happened to that? We came back to London for a year and he said to me, do you mind if we move back to my village? because I used to be poor once upon a time.

16:33And now that I've become wealthy, I want to give back. I said, do you mind going and living in this village, which is on the border of India and Bangladesh, for a year? And at the time, I was getting my hair done next to Jemima Khan. And she was basically, you know, all about moving to Pakistan with Imran Khan. And I thought, oh, my friends are all in university and, you know, grunge and having like beers. And me, you know, I'm like going to go and live in a village. I thought it was cool, a cool thing to do. So I went and I did that and I realized that he had four wives and 10 kids and it was like sleeping with the enemy.

17:06So, yeah, I had to get out of that. Sorry. Yeah. Wow. So he had four wives that you had no idea about? No, he had been married, yeah, so many times. He was a Muslim. To them, they just say, telah, telah, telah, which means divorce, divorce, divorce, and they can divorce you. So he was only married to you at that time, was he? But he had four ex-wife and he had other children that you didn't know about. Yes. And then I got a phone call, you know, when my son was six months old to say that she had given birth to her son. So he had cheated on me. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I'm laughing about it now because I think that, you know, God puts people in your life for a reason for you to grow.

17:42And only now can I look back and think, I don't regret anything. It was all worth it. Even the experiences were all worth it because you realize that obviously money is important if you want to be able to afford some luxuries in life. But that kind of money is actually evil and it's not that important. So actually seen it, done it, being able to shop, shop, shop, it just doesn't bring you happiness. Did you have no idea about? I think I loved him, but I was 21 and I was trying to probably get away from my mother. So, you know, I was like, I want to get married because, you know, I'm a virgin. and he was like, yeah, I'm happy to, you know, get married.

18:20That's literally how it was for him. Yeah. And I think I didn't have a father figure growing up. My father left when I was 12. So he was 16 years older than me. That was going to be my next question. So that father figure, you know. And does your son have a relationship with any of his? No, he left. No. Yeah, he left. The father left. Hasn't seen him. Hasn't been in touch. Nothing. Do you know where he is now? Nope. Nothing. No, nothing at all. Does he have a relationship with the siblings? like if your son have a relationship with any of his like I think a text once in a while I've never met so essentially you went from being part of something that felt like a unit to being very much on your own and you had to do it all by yourself or by myself and to be honest the relationship that I have with my son it's so close like literally so close that like when my husband uh you know saw how we are together or the you know I'm having a shower and he'll come in and to have a long conversation in the shower.

19:13He's like, I didn't sign up for this. You two are weird. And I'm like, what's weird about it? We are just that close. He discusses his girlfriends. I discuss everything in my life. Like there are no secrets. So I think people that think, oh my God, having siblings brings so much more into the dynamic because I've done both. I realized actually, no, it's 50-50. There are so many positives about having siblings, but there are also so much positives about having one child only because the attention the energy everything that you can give to that one person is everything yeah so you go through your divorce which is pretty horrific for anybody to go through how long were you on your own for uh before I met my husband uh well 13 14 years I had a boyfriend yeah um quite a long time term boy I'm a very well person in the divorce sorry did you get half of everything in the divorce uh I realized that all that money that he was spending was company's money and there was nothing really to take.

20:07I mean, he was the biggest con artist. Like it was just like, literally I got maybe like, I remember he had like 10 years. He was staying at the Sheraton Park Tower. So I got Starwood points, like 2 million Starwood points. Don't laugh. I'm not joking. St. Regis in New York. Do you know how many times I'd go to New York and stay at the St. Regis or Caldevolpe in Sardinia? Like it was the best hotels. So I always say to my son like we got all these holidays for free because I had two million starboard points and loads of jewelry and of course before the world knew what Birkins and Kellys were they were only two thousand five hundred pounds back then so he would take me you know Birkin and Kelly shopping and I used to think these look like my grandmother's bags it's so ugly like you know but okay what was the most extravagant thing that he ever bought you what's the most extravagant thing um a hundred thousand pound necklace uh 90 grand car we're talking in one goes yeah you know i went and saw this lovely house in st johnswood and i'm like i want this and he's like okay without even seeing it so yeah it was pretty crazy what the fuck like i know they're fitting stuff and then married for love second yeah that's a wise thing to do actually oh no maybe we just do this for a bit and then the second time round we do it for money well I think we should have done it the other way but we're too far we'll be like Demi Moore you know go and do it and then come back to it what about that with all the money we'll be right back after this short break

21:43therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough it shows up in the smallest moments you bite your tongue instead of escalating You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

22:20you just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. 75 % of women who seek menopause care don't receive it.

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24:34Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? So you've got these 13 years where you're raising your son. And then tell us about when you meet your now husband. So I think I got myself to a stage where I was actually really comfortable with thinking, well, I'm never going to meet anyone else because I'm so fussy. And I love my life so much that somebody would have to fit into the puzzle of my life. I don't want to fit into their life because, you know, my life was full. I had great friends in my life. You know, amazing. To me, friendship is everything. And a lot of male friends that were like my brothers.

25:08you know who I actually asked permission should I marry my husband I mean that's how much my relationships with these people are so yeah which is everything to me um so yes I met him and I remember giving him a horrible horrible yeah like go on I was a bitch I was just like what do you mean you don't know what Annabelle's is when I took him to Annabelle's and uh what do you mean you don't know where like he would get lost in Mayfair because he was a city boy and he went you know he worked in the city you know he lived in the city he went to pubs outside of his office and you'd never find him in Mayfair trying to pick up a girl let's say you know so I was like you don't know Harry's boy do you know this and then like I'm like oh so what brand jacket I was so awful I was like Thomas Pink I don't know Laura Piano oh my god like it was awful like the things I was saying to him and he was like but I can learn these things I was like listen I gave him made three months he had to wait to get the second date and then like nice I like that yeah and then uh he had invited me to go to Barcelona and I said happy to come to Barcelona and I'm happy to share a room but I'm not going to have sex with you because it's six months rule I have because you know sorry I didn't find that in the streets you know I'm gonna you know didn't find that in the streets that was my mother's expression when I was growing up she's like you have to save it you she's got a very heavy thick Iranian accent she's like men they use women like Kleenex tissues one one one you have to care about it so yeah it was always like mentally in my head that i can't do it i can't do it yeah yeah which is great she messed me up in some ways but actually now that i see some of these other yeah some of my classmates i think thank god she did thank god for challenging you made him wait six months yeah three months for a day then how did you know when did you decide he was unbelievable with my son like he would work and then on a sunday he'd come and you know my son was going through his GCSEs and do the work with him and, you know, do everything.

27:03I remember he was studying Russian history and he was like, do you mind if I take your son for the weekend if you don't want to come to Russia? I want to show him St. Petersburg. I mean, like he, we call him perfect Mr. Parker because he was perfect Mr. Parker. He is, honest to God, touch word. No one believes it because my ex, you know, relationships have always been about fight and makeup and makeup sex and, you know, that kind of passion. And with him, we haven't had a fight in 15 years. it's always just it's just calm so it's really really weird so yeah it was a whole year and then I said to him listen you're all about history and politics and you're so you know clever why do you want to be with me like I I sat at the back of the class like I would like cheat and pretend to get my A's like you know why do you want to be with me is that what you really felt about yourself is that how you really saw yourself I do feel that my mother spent a lot of money on my education and kind of let me go and do it and didn't check.

27:59So I would pay the girl that was there on scholarship to do my homeworks and sit at the back of the class. I was in the top set for maths and then she leaves and suddenly I go to the bottom set and they have to see my mom and say, what happened? She was so good at maths. They just couldn't understand what had happened to my brain because I just couldn't do it. That's hilarious. Pay the scholarship girl. Where were you when I was at school? I sneaked into, I'm not joking, to the staff room. And I took the year before's English literature coursework. You know how 60 % was coursework? Yeah. And I couldn't even be bothered to put it in my own words.

28:34I copied it. The A students, I copied it word by word. So I got very good grades in my GCSE in English only. You're amazing. You're amazing. But really, none of it was going in. I was just sitting in the back of the class writing letters to my girlfriends over there. It's a waste of money. Who does it go in anyway? Like, I think some people are really good with stuff like that and some people aren't. Yeah, my husband's really good. He's, like, written books on derivatives and he's super smart about everything. And he said to me, you have something I don't have. You have EQ. I have IQ. You have EQ.

29:04And together we're a full force. And I never saw it like that. And now I realize that actually sometimes EQ is more important. Being a people person is so much more important than the IQ. I mean, my billionaire friend says to me, it doesn't matter about the IQ. You can hire all the people in the IQ to work for you later on. The EQ matters. So, yeah. I love that a billionaire mate said that too. It's like, yeah, but how have you made over a billion? Is that for your EQ or your IQ? No IQ. Do you know where your value is now? And do you think being a mother? 100%. Talk to us about that because a lot of times I think value gets really muddled up with being able to buy things.

29:44and you think actually I'm just this because I can afford to go there and I can afford to do this. And that used to be me. Okay, talk us through that. I rejected what this whole London society was all about. I realized that, yes, it's nice to wear designer clothes, but this isn't the be-all and end-all. And maybe I sound a bit like Jennifer Lopez, Jenny from the block, that once you've got the money, it's easy to say that love don't cost a thing. But once you do have so much, you realize actually it's all fake, it's all nonsense. half of them are cheating on each other and bitching about each other and doesn't bring them happiness anyway.

30:17So I rejected that whole scene. And I, when I got married to my husband, he wasn't on the kind of salary that he's bringing in now. He was actually like at one point when he told me two weeks before we got married, how much he actually earns. I went, call it off. How are we going to afford? Like, I don't work. Like I want my kids to go to these schools. And he was like, don't worry. I'm a gross stock. Think of me as a gross stock. We will get there. so it really was like jumping off the cliff and you know he told me what our budget was to buy a house and I went to look in St. Johnswood or Hampstead where I grew up and I couldn't find anything for that amount so you know for a whole year we didn't live together because he'd come and stay with me for the weekends but I was like you live in the city next to your job I'm living in St.

30:59Johnswood in my smaller place let's wait until we find the perfect house and I went to see this house and I was like I don't care what people think how far I live I read somewhere in the book it says you've made it once you got the three G's. Gates Garden Garage. And I thought I've made it. Gates Garden Garage. And I bought a five bedroom house. No kids. We moved in. Everyone thought we were bonkers. And I said I want to fill up every room with kids. And that's what I, this time in my life makes me the happiest. Going to those rugby matches, going to the hockey matches, not missing out on those things.

31:32And I think having an oldest child, you are always waiting for the next step. You know, when you've got a baby, you can't wait till they walk. Why are they not walking? Why is my friend's kid walking? They're all going to walk. They're all going to talk. They're all going to get teeth eventually. Yeah. Do you think having that gap and then almost having another chance has given you a different perspective of parenthood? Talk to us about that. Has it been a different experience? 100%. You realize that you don't sweat the smaller stuff. you don't care about, you know, the nonsense. I honestly just feel that, you know, someone once said that you have 18 summers left with your children.

32:10Maybe that's why I go on so many holidays per year, because I'm like, I'm not going to have 18 summers. I'm going to have like 100 summers. But you just kind of, you realize like my 30 year old right now, we're still close, but I see him maybe, you know, a handful of times a year, you know, he doesn't have time from speaking every day to speaking every three days to having 10 minute chats he's got a life he's got a girlfriend he's got work he's you know the time difference and you realize it does he live in america yeah so it's weird how i manifested it yeah and he lives in america six months new york six months miami and he always says it's the best thing you did for me oh wow i think i was manifesting without realizing i was manifesting you've spoken about the sort of the importance about being really present for your children.

32:53What does that look like to you? So to me, I just remember that my mother wasn't there for me. Like she would drop me at school, pick me up really late, never came to my school plays, even when I was practicing all these lines and was never there at a hockey match or a netball match. And it's taken me a long time to forgive her. But I look back right now and I really have forgiven her. I used to think she was a really bad mother, but now I look back and I think maybe she didn't have, you know the support that I have she didn't have you know she was a single parent too and she did the best she could at that time and at the end of the day I respect her for what she did and that tough love sometimes has made me the person I am today so really I need to thank her for this strong yeah you know person that I am sitting here and you're obviously you're working now so how are you finding that gosh this working thing is hard I mean all my life I used to feel when people said, do you work?

33:50And I used to feel like, oh my God, you know, I can't, you know, like how do I say I don't work? And I used to feel embarrassed about it. Then like when I hit 40, I was like, utopian life. Everybody wishes they don't work. I don't work. So I used to be really proud to say I don't work. And honestly, like I said, you can't have it all. It is draining. It, you know, work is draining. I don't care what anyone says. It is draining. And then to come home, even though, you know, my nine-year-old might be running to tell me stuff, I'm there, but I'm not there. She's talking to me, but I'm so tired about what's happened that day.

34:22And I'm thinking about what's happened that day, or I'm thinking about what time the makeup artist is coming in the morning or, you know, where I have to be that I'm kind of not really present. So I think that part of it made really made me sad. I mean, thank God it's only three months of the year that we have to film, but that's when I realized, oh my God, how do people do that? 12 months of the year? It's hard, you know, and then you want to give yourself in the weekends when you have that time and give quality time and i always think that it's better to give quality time than you know just say i'm going to be there the whole time but you're not really there and you're not really present yeah we say we actually need you know a half an hour half an hour or 40 minutes where you're just dedicated to the kids and you're there with them and the phone is away and also we and george talk a lot about sitting in the car for five minutes before we get into the house half an hour one hour for me i haven't got time for an hour i haven't got time for even this for me just like listening to a tune or breathing it out or just thinking about right this is i'm done now this isn't about me this is about my kids and i walk in the door and i can't get it right every time but there's definitely things that you can do i think to just be like right now it's all about them it's definitely better than quality not quantity and i used to leave my kids alone you know to go away on like some cheeky romantic weekend with my husband and some of my friends were really judgmental and they were like, how could you do that?

35:41And I was like, I need to give to my husband and I've come back feeling better for my kids. Yeah, you need it. Like everybody needs a break. And I think, I mean, I really notice when I don't have a break. You haven't had one for a while, have you? No, that's what I was going to say. I haven't had a break for ages. I've got one coming up tomorrow. I'm going on a girl's trip. Where are you going? I'm going hiking to Switzerland. Hiking? Hiking. Well, I just thought it was just a walk. Now they've given me a list of wet foods, this stuff, thermals, blah, blah, blah, special shoes. And I'm like, I thought we're going to Switzerland to do some walking for five days.

36:09I didn't realize it's like some proper climbing mountain. So yeah. We'll be right back after this short break.

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39:12welcome back to this episode of made by mommas now where were we Tell us about the show. The show. Yeah. Everyone stops me in the streets and they say, it can't be real. You're all acting. It's scripted. And I, that winds me up because I'm like, it's all real. What are you talking about? I wish, in fact, they cut half the really, really bad stuff because, you know, they don't want it to be like so toxic. It's real. Real Housewives of London. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to hold my hands up here. I've never seen any of the Real Housewives stuff. Good, because I had never seen any of them before I got this contract.

39:46So there you go. I cannot wait because now we've had you. I'm dying to find out. I'm so happy. You're going to go and watch it and go, she's really nice. No, you are really nice. But on here, oh my God. No, no, I wouldn't. I'm really nice because you're really nice. I just can't bear all, you know, people that are fake. What is the show about? What is the show about? It's about six women who live, I would say, in the 1 % of the population who are in their bubble. And that's great. And sometimes that's aspirational to show people what they could have if they marry well or if they work hard or however you want to swing that.

40:26But for me personally being in the show, I think I'm some sort of judge and jury. I'm like, but she's lying. But she's putting on an eye. But she's lying about this. And I come home and I'm getting so wound up. And my husband's like, you're not getting paid extra for what we're having here. Like, you know, darling, do I come home and talk about derivatives? Like, park it. You've done your job. Park it. Don't talk about it. Come home. But it's easier said than done. What makes me so good for reality TV makes me so bad at it because I take it all in. I'm so emotional. Are you? Because it's so real to me.

41:00Yeah. Well, it is real. Yeah. It is real, right? What's the most dramatic thing that's happened on the show that you've been a part of? The most dramatic thing? Yesterday, one of the housewives wrote a horrific, horrific text message to me. Hopefully, they'll show that in reunion. If not, I might just have to go and leak it. Oops, I'm going to get into trouble. A really nasty... Because I think something like that. No, because it's so nasty that even the people in the gutter wouldn't talk like that. So I think sometimes things like that are good because you see what they want to pretend on the camera they are.

41:31because a lot of us are not being our true authentic self and hopefully the audience can see that um and then what happens outside of the show and you are you all really really jealous of each other you know I've never been you know it's so weird because if I say to you right now what I said to the producers when they found me I was like I used to be rich I'm really poor now they're like you poor like what are you on about and I could book because my friends all have these unbelievable, you know, private jets and invite me to wonderful things and, you know, pay a million pounds for JLo to come and sing to them.

42:04So for me, compared to my friends, I'm really poor. So I went into this show thinking I'm really poor. Then I see everyone and I'm like, I've never had that jealousy with my friends. I'm so proud of them. I'm like, wow, I'm on the gravy train. They're inviting me. I'm so excited for them. Go, good for you. Like, I'm so happy for them. I don't judge that. Why do I not have that? Because I really do think that God gives us what we what he wants us to have you know maybe if I had too much money I'd turn into some druggie or alcoholic or god knows you know like too much money do you understand that it's all relative yeah it is all relative yeah so now now that I'm in this right I realize that I'm rich but before I did this this job I was thinking yeah I was thinking I was in a bubble sorry yeah no no no no no it's so interesting it really is a bubble because if you're going to these private schools and your kids are, you know, going to boarding school and you are having those kind of holidays, you're mixing with those kind of people.

42:58Like for like people, yeah. So at school, you know, when they're like jetting off on their jets and my daughter's being invited to go and stay with her friend in the south of France on a boat. Yeah. I mean, how can you reciprocate that? It's like beyond, right? Ah, okay. So you're in this bubble. Yes. And you forget what it's like, you know? Yeah. And you think that's normal. And then you think you're, yeah, I get that. And then with the other housewives then, is it, I'm trying to like figure out, is it to do with like who's, because why is anyone being nasty to you? Yeah, I think that. You seem like the most lovely person.

43:31Yeah, you do seem lovely. Why are people being nasty to you? And that's why my friends have been my friends for 30 years. I just think that I call out the truth and a lot of these girls probably don't like me calling out the truth because they're all, well, some of them, there's, you know, I get on very well with three, but there's a couple of them that I just feel are playing up for the camera or pretending to be something that they're not or they've, and it's okay to reinvent yourself it's amazing to reinvent yourself but isn't it a better story to come on here and say you know what I went to state school I had a really you know hard childhood I didn't have you know money and this is what's happened in my life and now I am this person and but I will never I'm humbled and I will never forget where I've come from and I have so much appreciation for it I just don't like these people that come there and pretend that they pretend there's something you're not but why is there so much drama do you think that this might be rude but do you think they haven't got anything else to think about that then they just want to have drama because there's nothing I think that's what they think about me I think that's what they say about me which is true because actually I've got my full family life and this job it is a job yeah so am I not doing my job properly if I'm calling people out no no no no it sounds like you are doing your job properly absolutely and i think so and are the arguments like you know you've said x y and z about this person and then they're lying about is it backstabbing is it nasty does it get and does it does it ever get to the real heart of who these women are for me it does but the good bits about this is that you know this whole housewife world if you would have told me that let's say me and one of the housewives that weren't getting on last season would now be besties i would have thought never but it does happen that somebody that I wasn't friends with last season is now you know my rock and I can call them and I can tell them oh my god this happened that happened and they're there for me because only those friends from the show that you make can understand what you're going through because if I call my real life like bonded like school friends and say and then she did this that ain't not interested because they're like these people are your co-workers they're not your real work, your friends.

45:37So why are we having this discussion? So you need that. Do you trust them? That is a very good question because in fact, just yesterday when I was looking at this group chat, I was a bit confused and I thought, oh my God, this is like squid games. You know, when you think you trust one or two people, the other one will come and tell you that this one said this about you, but swear you won't go and tell them. And you're like, everyone's playing a game and I'm just good at playing games okay yeah so I'm from reality tv I don't know if you know this so 25 or two I was 21 so 2005 I did my first ever tv show called playing it straight and I was the girl picker and I was on a dating show some of the guys were gay some of the guys were straight and it was my me June Sarpong was the presenter we went to Mexico and I had to essentially get rid of the gay guys and end up with a straight man that I fell in love with dream scenario anyway what happened was all of the gay guys because I'd never I did never really met a gay man because I grew up in the countryside now I'm literally like a gay man in a woman's body but I'm at the time anyway ended up being really good friends with this guy who I thought was straight trusted him throughout the whole six weeks of the process and I didn't fancy him but he was my absolutely trusted ally and he was like a builder from Essex and he was like yeah he's definitely gay he's definitely get rid of him and I was like oh my god I've got my person here I fucking believe him so I chose him and guess what I'm gay darling Mr.

47:02Fucking Gay UK so my point is yeah I think it was the biggest lesson in life because I was so trusting and I trusted everybody and that was like a I grew up in that moment and so that's why I ask you that question because I think under the guise of a reality you grew up in that moment I grew up having giving birth at 21 see we both grew up right exactly the same moment Do you talk to your kids or do they see the program? Because I think it's a good lesson in friendship. I think so. To see that. I mean, I definitely have my, you know, daughter. She's emotional like me, the middle one. And she comes home and she was like, and she did this.

47:38And I said, I'm not going to be her best friend. And now she's gone and ganged up. And I'm like, listen, you have to look at yourself in the mirror. Who better than you? You are the main character in your book. That's how it is. These are the friends that come in and go. They're just, you know, characters that come in and go. I used to think that I was going to be best friends with this person. And it's how you navigate that. And if that person doesn't want to be your friend, good. They've shown you their true colors. Don't make up with that person. Have them, like, as a friend, make up. But don't trust them like that ever again.

48:10And I think it's important because, and that's another reason that I love boarding school for my daughter. Because she has to navigate that by herself. Because she can't come home like my nine-year-old and cry and say, this happened, that happened. she's got to go to bed that night tell me five minutes on the phone what's happened and then make up break up make up break up and make it work yeah that's so interesting I'd never thought about that with boarding school that you're in that oh yeah world and you have to navigate all of those issues showing a door with someone you're having showers next to the cubicles you know it's yeah wow what are the female friendships and relationships in your life what do they mean to you?

48:46Everything. I mean, honestly, I, my family obviously is number one, but I kind of feel that my family is my garden and my friendships are the flowers in that garden. You know how sometimes it's autumn and, you know, by the time it goes to winter, it's like looking, it's not nice without flowers. Right. And I really, my friendships for me, especially the older I get, I go more back to the people that have known me for 30 years and there's just, no one's pretending, no one's, you know, if they're having a hard day, they're telling me they're having a hard day. I like the fact that I'll call out my friend and I'm like I just don't understand last night they were all home from boarding school and I was like okay good night and I start off as Mary Poppins I love you go to each of their bedrooms I love you good night good night five minutes later it's like I need a water okay go downstairs I need to go out through oh she did this oh he did that by the end of the it's taken 45 minutes and I'll go like to you know literally to Cruella de Vil and I'm like I just don't understand.

49:44Why do they make me go zero to a thousand? And then they're like, I do that every night. And it's just so nice that they can just all be honest. And we're all honest with each other. Especially now that I'm 52 and I'm going through menopause and I'm thinking, I'll just suddenly go to the bathroom and cry for no reason. And my husband will see me and he's like, what are you crying about? Everything in your life is so great. And you've got me and you've got your friends and you've got your kids and just for no reason I'm crying and that's you know but if my peers who are five ten years older than me had told me you know you're going to go through this this is how it's going to happen nobody talked about menopause to me like I had a group of women that were ten years older than me the Persian crew and they they would always like just act like everything was great they didn't talk about it never if anything we'd go to the arts club or Annabelle's or wherever and they'd go Panthea you're the best at ordering can you please order that would feel like and I'd order everything now I go to dinners and lunch and I'm like uh to my youngest friend you order because I realized none of them wanted to bring out their glasses and they can hardly read and I'm like why couldn't you have just been honest and said I can't read anymore just so true do you think that was a cultural thing or do you think that's just 10-15 years ago nobody was having those discussions around menopause yeah I think it was a yeah those yeah nobody was doing that I think it's in families as well because that's very much like in my family I remember my nan and my mom well my I think my mom had a coil so then didn't notice her menopause or something lucky her I know but then my nan was the same oh menopause no I didn't I didn't notice no didn't notice a thing and you're like really but then like I'll have like my auntie and she's completely honest about it but yeah I think it's I don't know what it is it I don't know.

51:29Yeah, I think when you talk about it, people think that you're suddenly old. So people want to pretend that they still get their periods, which happens twice a year for me. Not that anyone's asking, but sharing is caring. Yeah, sharing, sharing. And for me, last season, I remember just feeling so many ups and downs and ups and downs. And obviously being in this scenario of work, it is quite pressurizing. So I did go to see a couple of doctors. One said, don't take anything. And one said, take something. And now I'm on two pumps of Lanzetto. It's like a perfume. It's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the doctor actually said, if it's half term and you're feeling...

52:03Put another spray on. Put another spray on. Put another spray on. And I don't know whether it's psychological, but I put another spray on. And I just thought, ah, I feel great. And you haven't had the coil fitted or no? How do you get your progesterone? No, I take a tablet at night. You take a tablet, yeah. And the four sprays. Yeah. And I gave birth three natural. And the last one was an emergency C-section. So whilst they were doing it, I said, tie my tubes. So I never needed to... Well done. Yeah. Yeah. And it is a big thing. And actually, I think when you have the understanding around it and you know, really listening to your body, all those signs, symptoms, you know, it's like when you shut the door.

52:34I'm in early menopause. And so it's like, I got it. I felt it. And if I need an extra gel pump, I do an extra gel pump. You know, it's a sticky fucker to dry. But we get there in the end. But, you know, you need to listen to your body. Yeah. And it was scaring us to say that you're going to get cancer and all of those horrible things that you just like wake up and you're like, gosh, those poor women that had to go through that. I know. I know. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Now, we haven't got you for very much longer. We've talked about your current career and what you're doing at the moment. But we want to get a piece of advice from you.

53:04We always ask our guests the best piece of advice that they've ever received, something that they'd impart onto a parent listening to this podcast. The best advice. Yeah. The best advice is you just have to always have your arms open for your children. You want them to be able to trust you so that they can share anything and everything. And if they're scared of you, they might not want to tell you things. yeah and you're just a very different parent to each one of your kids you cannot be the same parent because each kid you know wants different things from you and you know some are easier my household right now they're like oh she's your favorite and I'm like I love you all the same but I might like her more because she just listens you know so sorry that that wasn't a profound wow thing to say no no no always have your arms open for your kids it's brilliant and I've got a feeling this is going to be good but we always like to ask our guests their five like absolute die-hard favorite products or things that you just couldn't live without could be anything anything like brands or a face cream a gadget or anything what would it be original sprout the best shampoo the best shampoo what's it called don't tell me you don't know original sprout google it original sprout is let me tell you oh god like sprout yeah this mom told me about this like i don't know uh 14 years ago and it smells divine it's the best children's shampoo original oh for kids we're going kids we're going kids but you can use it as an adult too because it's sulfate free yeah yeah it's a little children's salon it's a little licardo It's amazing.

54:44Yeah, look. Hair and body wash. What shampoo do you use? Because your hair's amazing. It was blow dry two days ago. You don't wash your own hair, do you? I don't wash my own hair. Shut up. And no one believes that I do not, I only have original sprouts at home. So if once in a blue moon, I have to wash it and let it go curly, that would be it. I don't own a brush. I don't own shampoo or conditioner. You don't own a brush? I would rather, whether you believe me or not right now. So I go to bed with my hair. Literally, this is the magic trick. You go like this and then you literally put it in a loose bun and you go to bed like that.

55:17And then when you wake up, just put things through. No, when you wake up. If I did that. No, I just put my hair through. That's what I did downstairs when I was coming up. So I don't brush my hair. No one believes that. Who blow dries your hair? Neville. Neville. Yeah, in Bond Street. Yeah. Or I have a great Turkish guy locally as well. So I have my blow dries and sometimes if I can, I do them every four days. But sometimes, I'm not going to lie, if I've been too busy, it'll be 10 day blow dry. What about if you're on holiday on a boat? Yeah, I went to Antigua on a boat on this cast trip, and I didn't wash my hair for the whole trip.

55:48What about brushing it? No brushing it, just my fingers. I'm going to buy you a lovely brush. And just my dry shampoo. Which dry shampoo do you use? Anything. I used to use a really expensive, like,£25 one. Then I realized I was in boots, and I bought the cheap one in an airport. And it was, yeah, it was just as good. I forget what people say, it's just as good. And what about, like, a brand that you love, like a clothing? What makeup do you use? Oh, yeah, we'll go with makeup. Giorgio Armani. Giorgio Armani. Oh, yeah. Love it. I love how it goes on like really silky. Luminous silk? Yeah. Yeah, me too.

56:16Love that. But my makeup artist would tell you that I'm rubbish because it takes me five minutes and I don't really know what I'm doing. So every time he sees me, he's like, you haven't blended, you haven't done this, you haven't done that. I'm like, maybe the good thing about losing your eyesight is you don't really take yourself too seriously. I'm like, whatever. I can't tell, right? I'm not that vain person. Does that make sense? I just take five minutes and I'm out. We are not sitting on this side of the fence thinking that you are. Yeah. No, no, my mum is and some other girls are. And I wish I could be like them, like the contouring and they look perfection.

56:47I'm not that person. Like, thank God I've got good genes that I don't need to go to the gym. I don't need to drink all the water. I need to go to the gym. Right, someone get her out of it. Oh my God, we weren't jealous before we were. No, we are. We're real housewives of mamas. What an absolute joy. Thank you so much for coming on. I love that time. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thank you so much. That was great. Brilliant. brilliant absolutely hilarious brilliant i loved her energy i loved that you said i think you said at the beginning she really you know she didn't take herself seriously at all you know and she's really experienced so many colors of the rainbow in her life you know being a single parent and how she handled that you know okay there was there was a bank balance involved but that doesn't take away the fact that she brought up her son all by herself and her ex-husband didn't appear ever again Yeah, exactly.

57:39That's brutal. It is. No, it is really brutal. And I think so often you can look from the outside and think just because somebody has a lot of money that they don't experience the same problems. But it just goes to show that she's faced a lot of challenges in her life and she seems to be in a really happy place now. And also, marrying for money. Why not? Second time around, baby. Second time around. That will be us. I've already made a list of really rich single guys I can marry for my second marriage. More on that next week on the podcast. Great. Thank you guys so much for listening. A massive thank you for Pantheon for coming on.

58:20As always, we'd love you to rate, review, subscribe, and please give our podcast a follow. Yeah, and if you've got any feedback on this episode or guests you'd like to hear from, drop us a DM on Instagram. We're on AppMadeByMummas. And we'll be back on Friday.

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59:37whether they need help calming down for bedtime, finding confidence for school, or handling those really big feelings. Listen to Evie Asks wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, and you can watch on YouTube too.