Sarah Green on Losing Her Daughter to Ketamine Addiction

0:02Made by Mamas starts in just a moment, but first, what do your kids think you actually do all day? Over on Secret Mum Club, Safina and Emma have discovered what one listener's four-year-old thinks she does all day, and the review is absolutely brutal. Kids really do have a way with words. Search for Secret Mum Club and get the episode in your queue.

0:27It takes the hits, runs the miles, rebuilds while you sleep. It's felt every fall, every dance floor, every belly laugh. And in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor and this is Back Your Body, the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have. The one you have with your body. From scars to self-care, the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love, We're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them or finally learned to listen to them. It's time to back your body the way it's always back to you.

1:03Back your body. Subscribe now, your body will thank you. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week, we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts, and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays.

1:39And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hello, a bit of a different one from us today. It's just me in this intro, but Zoe is actually in the chat as well. We recorded this last week and it's something I think I've thought about pretty much every day since. It is a heavier chat and there are trigger warnings here around drug addiction, like death. there's just a lot there's a lot to unpack in this episode but it is such an important chat um we always want to hear from parents who you know have got stories to share and when this one um landed we knew we had to have it it's such an important conversation to share with other people as well because there were just so much of this that I had no idea about um our guest comes on and talks very candidly about how her daughter had an addiction to ketamine from a very young age and how you would never think that would happen in a family like theirs.

2:54On the surface, their family was picture perfect. You know, two parents with great jobs, providing an amazing life for their kids, very supportive, loving siblings. And it just really shows how, you know, anybody can can be touched by this and she is now very passionate about campaigning in schools and raising awareness around the signs and just how big of a problem and ketamine is with young well young teenagers and so we're going to get into this chat again trigger warning it's a heavy one If it doesn't feel right for you today, you know, save it. But please also do share this episode with anyone else, you know, not just parents, teenagers, anyone who you think would benefit from listening.

3:45I know I'm going to be sharing this far and wide. So today we are joined by Sarah Green on Instagram. You'll know her as The Body Coach. Hello and welcome to Tuesday's episode of the podcast. joining us today in the studio, health and fitness content creator and someone who has been through the worst thing that any parent could ever go through, losing her beautiful daughter on earlier on this year. Please welcome the beautiful Sarah Green to the podcast. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Just before we get into the chat, just to break the ice a bit, how's your morning been?

4:19What's been going on? I've had some train delays. It's been a nightmare, but lovely to be here with you girls. It was really nice to be here. How long did it take you to get in? It actually was meant to take like an hour and a half and ended up taking about two and a half hours. But, you know, hey ho. British summertime doing its thing. It gets a bit hot and no one can. No one can function. No. And there's cows on the track the other day. I was like, look, I know they're happy cows, but it's taken me three hours to get home. Ridiculous. Sarah, obviously, you know, people who follow you on Instagram will know what has just taken place in your life.

4:50But before we kind of talk to you about how you lost honour, tell us about her, what sort of a person she was. Oh, she was so unique and so wonderful. If you met her once, you'd never forget it. From a very young age, she was just such a character. So bright, so intelligent, so beautiful, very confident. She was a true Leo, so very dramatic. um just wonderful wonderful nature like absolutely beautiful nature really warm that's the way I would describe her really warm always very very special always would light up a room and the family setup she was the eldest so she was the eldest um and she has a brother and sister at home and yeah we we just were you know like many families when you're trying when you have children you're trying to do better for them build a life for them you know we were lucky enough to do that we managed to build a business in in the wellness space and created an amazing life for our children and managed to travel the world with them put them through private education um yeah we were just really close family not perfect because I don't think any family is but um yeah we were as far as you would be able to go if it was my dream my family were it was the dream it was the dream having the three children and all individually unique and all very very close as well very close um honor and our siblings are very very close um so obviously it's taken it's been a massive massive um just shattered the whole family to be honest yeah so for those listening who don't know will Will you just tell us the story, what happened earlier this year?

6:37Yeah, so I'll start at the beginning if it's probably easier to make sense of it that way because I know a lot of people that follow me and see pictures and videos that I put out there. They can't believe it when they look at Anna that she had a ketamine addiction. They can't believe that she was suicidal. They can't believe they can't match the two. And to be honest, when I look back at the pictures and things from all of those years that it's been going on, it is very hard to be able to marry up the reality of what we're going through and actually who she was as a person and who we were as a family.

7:14um so it started probably around about 15 years old um on a like many young people unfortunately started just going out and experimenting with their friends family drinking sorry with their family with their friends um drinking and going to the park and trying different things now i didn't know we are very very anti-drugs in our family we're like completely zero tolerance because we've had previous experience with my husband's side of the family with it so it was like we always drummed it into the kids no drug that you can see what's happened you know it was very much spoke about in our house so it wasn't a taboo subject um so when um honor at 15 came home one day and was just acting really odd and I didn't know what it was I said to my husband she's been drinking something she's been drinking and for any parent that's had teenagers yeah that knows what that feels like you know instinct instinctively as a mum I knew something was off um and I ended up grilling her what's happened she admitted eventually that she'd been taking drugs and that she'd been taking ketamine and I was heartbroken absolutely heartbroken my husband had just lost his brother to drugs um it was very very difficult time in our family at that time around drugs so I went mad like any parent I was going crazy like what the hell you know couldn't understand it she didn't say it was the first time at the time because it was too much of a I was just you know like what on earth is going on um Um, when we then spoke about it and it was just like, yeah, we just, she, I just remember it was a bit of a blur to be honest, that first time, but I just remember her being like, God, you're so over the top, mom.

9:06Everybody does it. Like, it's not that big a thing. Ketamine is like not that big a thing. And I remember like, you know, like any parent at the time, I'd never heard of ketamine. I didn't even know what it was. My major like fear when it came to drugs was cocaine and ecstasy and all of those things. didn't even know that ketamine what it was I'd heard about it being a course tranquilizer yeah uh went on to google like oh my god is it addictive no it's not addictive it's you know it's it's it's actually used to treat mental health I was thinking oh a bit of a sigh of relief as much as I was heartbroken that she'd gone down that road like in despite everything that we were going through as a family because of drugs I I was still sort of relieved and so was my husband that it was that one as opposed to anything else.

9:52I promised she'd never do it again. It was a one-off. It was a boyfriend at the time that had given it to her and whatever. And so went on many episodes over the years, but they were always incidents where Anna would talk her way out of it. So she would come home one day or the next morning, she wouldn't be able to get up or I tried to talk to her and she'd be like almost really vacant I could always tell she had just a bit of like a look in her eye and I'd be like are you taking something no I'm just hung over I'm just tired so this there was so many occasions I believe now that I caught her yeah but there was no proof and I didn't know what I was looking at or what I was looking for at the time and she was she was like most young people you know she could she could spin a yarn she could we've all done it we've all said oh no I'm knackered or whatever it was and that was her her kind of her story I'm tired mom um what sort of age was she and she was this was ranging from like she's now coming up to 16 and then it was into 17 and 18 and it would be I wouldn't say a regular as in like every week this was happening once every couple of months I would be doing the washing and there'd be a little plastic bag and they'd be empty and I'd think what on earth is that again I'm not a fay with drugs so I don't know what a little plastic bag is and I would call her out and say what is this oh it was so-and-so's somebody's her friend's name oh she put it in my bag I don't know what it is and it was always this after excuse after excuse but I bet when you're in it you do believe it because you want to believe it if I was from the outside of it witnessing it again I'd be like wake up yeah but I genuinely had no idea what this was and she was very very good at lying you know she was she was very good at it and and I believed her she was you know I don't know if that's a naivety because it's she's my daughter but it was just my younger daughter with was growing up then and she would be like mom you know you you know that that she's taking stuff and I'm like no she's not that's and I really younger daughter my younger daughter started to become quite aware so now she's stepping up into like 18 and 19 and then she actually um we found out after that that she'd had a boyfriend that was a dealer a drug dealer and that was the reason that she'd started to take it and then it was like a major thing for us to get her to break up with this with this boy which again if you've before I had children or before I would think you would just stop them seeing them when you've got a teenage daughter of 17 18 years old it is like it's very difficult to describe the position that you think that you think you're going to be in and how you deal with it is very different to how you deal with it because you realize how little control you actually have when they get to that sort of age it's it's very hard to explain it but she eventually broke up with this guy and um we were all relieved as a family because i'd never met him she never brought him anywhere near the house um and she wouldn't admit to being with him but we knew that she kept you know she would say i'm going around my friend's house but really she was going somewhere else and it was an ongoing battle to be honest for years and eventually she did break up with him and then she took a bit of a downward turn.

13:19And I remember catching her in her bed and she was, she did not look right. And I was like, what the hell is going on? What have you taken? Nothing, nothing. And I said to my husband, she's taken something we need to do, like she's on something. And eventually she admitted she'd taken ketamine and it was because she was heartbroken because of the breakup. and incidents like this happened from the age of then 18 right through till about 21 but they became more frequent okay so she was she was living under you she was living at home and do you believe that she was using at home i don't now i do at the time it was always if i caught her it would to begin with it was like she'd been at a party or she'd been around a friend's house or she'd been whatever it was never like I've got a problem she would always say the same thing mum everybody does it it just helps to me to just forget about everything for a bit and chill out and it's just like drink mum just means you don't have the hangover the next day she played it down and she played on the fact that I am so I'm into my health and fitness we live and breathe it that's our you know that's our business it's our life she always played into the fact that oh you're just so extreme like nobody else's parents is like this did you ever talk to any other parents so she was very good at separating and this went on for quite a while but I did speak to other parents but it wasn't in a way that by the way is your daughter doing it was like a friend who had a child the same age or you know people that I would go and surround yeah they all do it they all do it what the parents were being told and fed the same story that they all do it and I was like Like this, I'm like, I'm, then me and my husband started doubting ourselves.

15:08Like, are we really extreme? Like, is this the norm? Because whenever you Google it, it's like, it's not addictive. It's, it's played down so much that we started to then think, are we being really over the top? Like, it's such a difficult one. Anyway, it got to the point when she got to about 20, 21. And I, and we'd, one day we'd caught her. And I said, I knew she wasn't right. she wouldn't admit it and I said I'm gonna buy some drug tests so I actually went online I bought some home drug tests and I said I cannot have you doing this in our house you've got a brother and sister are here yeah this is your home this we are your family I love you but you're 21 now if you want to do this you're not doing it in my home I can't have it because she she was like she I believed at the time she was just choosing to to do it but there was a lack of respect because she was coming in out of her head and her younger brother and sister were seeing that right so it had stepped would you say at that point it had stepped up from being every couple of months to yes so so that so the sort of almost the the curtain had been pulled back and it was it was sort of a little bit a little bit to the but it was still very much I believed and we had lots of conversations around it and I would you know we would sit down and she went to therapy um we paid paid for private therapy like why do you keep relating going going to this this is not who you are you know why do you keep going back to this because honor as a person had very high morals very very very high values she'd hated drugs she hated smoking she was her her behavior didn't fit with her her values in life it didn't and i used to say to her that you're causing yourself so much pain on because you're doing things that you don't agree with you're not you're not upsetting me it's the conflict of your own values that within yourself it's making you feel and then her mental health became a real problem and she started to say I feel the reason I'm taking it now is because I feel so depressed so we went to the doctors we got her on antidepressants because we were trying to like take her off one thing to replace it with something a bit better and it was it was a nightmare and i must have been to the doctors with her oh god so many times and they just kept up in our antidepressants up in our antidepressants was she did were you talking about the drug use to the doctor so i mentioned that but we again you've got to remember we didn't know she was addicted to drugs at this time it was very much recreational but what i did meant we didn't mention it to the doctors like she's actually i said we need to i need something to help her because she's so depressed that she keeps going back to this drug of a weekend if she's you know she's being drawn to it um well we can try on a different antidepressant but she was never ever referred to any kind of mental health support never given any kind of any support services at all I had to go and seek luckily I was switched on enough to find someone and get her some therapy but was never offered any kind of support in that sense and they were just given a a higher dose of antidepressants um and then it got to about when she was about 21 and maybe a little bit maybe 21 and a half and i had the drug test at home and i and i said to her i cannot have this yeah for jude and xena her younger brother and sister at home anymore on like if you want to do this you're 20 nearly 22 now you need to you need to do it but you're not And she was still saying, it's just recreational.

18:48All of my friends do it. And I do believe a lot of her friends do it. Almost all of them. yeah it came to um october of last year and by this time i'd caught her again i drug tested her it came up positive i said that's it i said i can't do it anymore she said you know what mom i think it is probably time that i move out anyways um she was had a very high paid job she was very high up in her company she was a real top achiever in life insurance um beautiful beautiful absolutely beautiful stylish she just she was on traveling to paris with her friends she was going to on holidays with her friends we were going to dubai it was like all of this lifestyle that you never ever would have imagined behind the scenes what was really going on and she had over the year or two years before that she'd started to complain about her her cycle her periods and saying she's suffering really bad periods and we went back to the doctors and she was constantly having to have a coil have it removed having this because she had so much pain all of the time she told her work she had endometriosis um so many things we now know that she was losing her bladder but we didn't go we didn't actually know that at the time and i didn't know she was just saying to me it's my periods i'm really heavy bleeding mom she wouldn't come to family functions because she was like I'm in so much pain with my periods it wasn't periods it now we know it was the ketamine use so do you do you know if at that time she was experiencing would she have been experiencing issues with her bladder at that time yes so she was that was the cause of it so we didn't know but she was she was she knew she'd been to the oh yeah she knew she knew yeah she knew she'd been to the to the doctor privately and they'd said you are gonna have to go for a scan she'd been to the hospital I didn't know any of this it was all very secretive she didn't a few of her friends knew about it um but she was like do not tell my mom please don't tell my mom she just did not want me to know I think there was a lot of shame yeah around it um because of I don't know and and again I asked myself this you know were we too strict about drugs because she I don't know like we always had open conversations but I feel like Like she just felt she carried so much shame.

21:09I know that. I know that she carried so much shame around it that she didn't want to. And that breaks my heart. Yeah. That she felt that she'd let me down and us as a family down because it just wasn't, it's not who we are. It's not who she is. No. But the reality is it's not really anybody. No. It's not really anyone. Like there's no person that you think that somebody in your head, you get like a preconceived idea of who the type of person is. that's going to become an addict and you would say that would never be honor and our family that would never come from their family but you just don't know it really does not discriminate and i mean of course i mean that's just that's really poignant what you just said it really is especially you know with the world that we grow up in today we have a preconceived idea about what an addict looks like yeah people need to shed that because addiction is an is an illness like it can happen to anybody yeah that's something i found out a lot of a lot recently and the messages i get from from young girls um young boys as well like beautiful handsome and they're and they're addicted to ketamine and you would never know and they say i can't tell my parents because i just can't i can't do it to them so because they feel like they've let their parents they feel like it's this whole thing it's it's yeah and it's the stigma around addiction it's it's the whole yeah I think it's just shame so much shame around it that is probably what I'm really passionate about at the moment is lifting some of that shame we'll be right back after this short break it takes the hits runs the miles rebuilds while you sleep it's felt every fall every dance floor, every belly laugh.

22:57And in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor and this is Back Your Body, the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have. The one you have with your body. From scars to self-care, the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love, we're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them, or finally learned to listen to them. It's time to back your body the way it's always back to you. Back your body. Subscribe now, your body will thank you.

23:34Welcome back to Made By Mummers. So take us back to just where you were with the story in terms of now you know she was losing her bladder. The doctors obviously weren't able to give you any of that information because of patient confidentiality so they had to honor honor um so where is she in october last year october of last year um she found a place that she wanted to move into a really beautiful flat and we supported her like financially said yep we'll help you get you know she was over the moon and she'd been going through a lot of weight loss so honor was probably my size you know like a healthy size eight six to eight I mean she lost a lot of weight it she walked home from she came in from home from work one day and uh before she moved out and I was just broke down I was crying my eyes out sobbing like what on earth is going on she'd been staying at her friends for a week because her parents were away she was house sitting with her she hadn't been home for a week and I'm not joking you in that week she must have lost way over a stone she was so thin she was like a size four she was like I was like what the hell has happened to you and I was sobbing she was like I've just had no appetite she'd been going through a bit of a turbulent relationship and I'm heartbroken again and so she was just telling me she wasn't eating and then she promised me mom I promise I'll send you pictures of my food every day so I believed it was just because she wasn't eating she had no appetite she said her antidepressants took away her appetite that's why she wasn't eating which also adds up which all added up and she's like mum I promise you I will start to send pictures of me eating and so in again in my head I'm thinking this is her mental health I'm encouraging her to go back to the therapy she was saying she was going back to the therapy she wasn't going back to so there was just a whole web of lies and is she working she's working she's working she's working at high level of stress high performer she's working don't get me wrong there were towards the last year of her life now i've spoken to her bosses and things there were lots of i'm ill i can't come in lots of days off lots she would not go into work and go and see a stay at a friend because she knew if she'd be at home i'd be like what's going on why are you not at work so there was all of this she almost had like double like a double life and then of october last year her one of her best friends i actually went around her flat we moved her in we kidded it all out she was so happy and i thought this is going to be the making of her she's going to finally feel like she's got some independence and no it was within a few within not even two weeks i went around there with some food i'd made her some dinners and i went around there with my son we went i said we're going to surprised I was going to take her some dinner because she loves my my home cooking and um she I rang and she wouldn't answer the but she wouldn't answer the buzzer and I could hear on the phone I just knew and she was always a delay in her speech when when she was using and um she said I said answer the door I've got food she said don't mom and I just knew I said are you taking stuff?

26:48Yeah. And I was just, oh, I thought I was going to be sick. My son was in the car with me, our brother. I didn't know what to do. She was like, leave it, mum. She wouldn't answer the buzzer. So then within 10 minutes, her best friend had called me and said, Sarah, I'm so sorry. I need to tell you that she is in a really, really bad way. We've been wanting to tell you for such a long time. But she hasn't let us. She's threatened all sorts of stuff if we tell you um but she's in a really bad way she's really poorly so I was at home by this time I said to my husband you need to go and get her now yeah so I rang her up I knew she was out of it but I said pack your bag dad is coming to get you now and she just went okay and she did she came and he went and picked her up and bought her home and she was so thin and she walked in the door and she was like her eyes were just popping out of her head where she was just so out of it and I just grabbed her and cuddled her and I just sat her on my lap um and I said it's going to be all right and she was like I hate myself I hate myself and she she admitted then that she had a problem for the first time and that was in October last year was the no so what what happened then and obviously the so my siblings are in their room they're in the house it was it was awful because by this time thank you by this time she'd um she'd they'd witnessed a lot of these incidents where she had been not right and then they were like why are you letting her carry on like doing this mom you know they were getting starting to get a little bit resentful of the fact that why is she allowed to behave like this because they just didn't think it was right um but when she came home we had to sit down and I just sat with her that night and I just I slept with her in the in the she's because she was in so much pain physical pain she had to sit upright she couldn't lay down the physical pain was down to the physical pain we knew at that point was she was losing chunks of her bladder she was actually physically losing big clots of blood um so she would have to go to the she was going to the toilet literally every three or four minutes um and we stayed together then and I just just rocked her like a baby I can just remember saying to her it's gonna be all right and she was going I don't want to be here mom I don't want to be here mom I don't want to be and I was saying you've got to be here for me um and I'm gonna we're gonna do this we're gonna do it together it's gonna be all right and we're gonna get help and I just cuddled her and then we stayed together that night on the sofa I bathed her like two three in the morning um and then we stayed together for the rest of the week in the front room she slept on one sofa and I slept on the other we had to have a big chat with the other children say look honor's very poorly she's got to come home now um and slowly we started to piece her back together a little bit um the next morning i phoned the gp i was like i need help she's her bladder i need you to to book her in for a scan they booked a scan they did refer her for a scan on her bladder i contacted my i didn't get given any numbers no support numbers no no company nowhere to go i googled i was like drug rehab center local managed to contact a local drug rehabilitation center and get her an appointment for a few days after and in the meantime I was just at home with her and I could I did not leave her like 24 hours a day she was with me no or she was I didn't go to work I didn't do anything we just were together and I made sure she was eating and and everything and it was was she um so two questions Sarah if I can lots of people talk about that moment where addicts finally admit that they've got a problem she did there's a moment of surrender yes Yes, absolutely.

30:42It's almost a relief to be like, it stops now. I could see it for her. I did. I did. And we managed to get an appointment, but she was mortified. Like if you could have seen on her, it was like this glamorous. And we're, you know, again, the stigma, we're walking up to this drug rehabilitation center and you've got lots of people in there that, you know, real severe addicts, heroin addicts, all of these things. And she's like, why am I here? She can't make the association of how she's in this place. and I'm saying look one day you're going to look back at this and you're going to say can you believe that mom do you remember when that that was mad and I was very positive about I said this is just going to be part of your chapter and your story that you're going to be able to look back on and think how far you've come and it was we were very positive at the time we found a we got went in for an appointment with a support a drug support worker and she said I need you to be really open and honest and tell me everything and she said oh yeah I will um she said are you happy for your mum to be in here and she said yeah and that was the hardest that was the hardest conversation I've ever had to listen to because she she admitted that she hadn't had probably a longer period than about 10 days since she was 15 but she hadn't taken ketamine wow yeah a longer period the longest she'd been was when like on a holiday and it was 10 days and that's how long she'd been doing it and it had progressively got worse and worse to the point where she was actually using every single day.

32:13And she said, look, I said, what are our options? You know, what do we do? Like, what do we do here? Can we put her in rehab? And she said, look, we can get her in rehab. If she wants to go to rehab, we can do that. But the reality is, is rehab's going to help her get off of the drugs. But by this time, she'd been at home for over a week and she was already off the drugs. I was drug testing her every morning and every night I was drug testing her constantly. And she found that helped her having that accountability. So she was more than willing to do it. And then they said, look, you've already done the hard bit in terms of getting off the drug.

32:53We just, we can be here to just check in with her and make sure. And Anna was like, no, I'm good, mom. I know I can do this at home and, you know, I don't need to rehab. We've done that bit. So she stayed at home and for another couple of weeks, we then moved her upstairs into our bedroom. room we've got another sort of dressing room area put a little single bed in there she'd be like she's like a baby again it was like having a baby again how how was her kind of persona um she very very down very down like she she was physically getting better mentally she was majorly struggling um I think the reality of I remember saying you know we need to like you need to start thinking forward like I've done a lot of training in the mind and I've done a lot of training I've I've been a coach for a long long time so luckily I was equipped with some tools on how to help her forward think and goal set and all of these things and I was saying I want you to start visualizing you in like the future like thinking of you because you wanted to be a mum um thinking about you with your children and us on holiday and all of these things I still want you to stop thinking about that um and she said i can't mum she couldn't think about the future um it was like i didn't know this at the time and i still didn't know and i was googling like ketamine like what can i do is there any herbal things admit you know and it was all saying the same stuff like it's in hospitals it can be used for medical yeah in all medical purposes and all of these things so she stayed at home for another probably two or three weeks got got put weight back on she started feeling better within herself we were going for coffees we were going for walks and she was like getting back to herself and she said I want to go back to work mom I said okay are you ready do you think you're ready yeah I'm ready but I want to stay at home she went back to work she loved her job it gave her purpose and she went back to work great did another couple of weeks at work great by this time it's coming up to Christmas and she said mum I really want to go back into my flat for Christmas my friend's going to move in with me she's got a lovely like friend who doesn't do anything like that really like clean living girl she's going to move in with me um I'll still come home and drug test every day and or you can come to me whatever and I said to my husband like what can we do like you know she's she's 23 by this time you know she's 23 she's she can make her own decisions I can't say no and I said I just don't know if you're ready and she said I'm ready mum I'm never going to go back to that like and she looked like herself she was behaving like herself her bladder her bladder we went for the scan at the hospital and she had lesions but they said it was reversible damage yeah that's what was It was reversible at the time, which was amazing.

35:53So we said, okay, you know, what can we say? She went back into her flat for the first week. I was drug testing her and she was doing great. For the second week, she was like, oh, can you FaceTime me? So we would do FaceTime, drug tests on FaceTime. And then into the second week, she wouldn't pick the phone up. And that was a week or so before Christmas. And I knew. and then I just said have you taken it again she's like I'm really sorry mum and then she was very distant she didn't want to come home she didn't want to come around I was like what what the hell like I was on I was on chat GPT like what can I do have I got anything else I can do they were like you've you've done everything I phoned her drug worker and I was like is she coming in no she hasn't been to any of our appointments and I said to her and I was crying on my on the phone to the drug work and I said please tell me what I can do can I get her can I get her committed yeah can I get her put into the local like for her mental health I've got a bad feeling something is going to happen she said Sarah you can't do anything she's an adult and although they're bad she's making lucid decisions herself she's of she's of like sound mind she's not crazy she's making rational decisions they're just not very good ones and I was like what can I what can I do And I just knew from Christmas, my gut was just telling me every day something's not something bad is going to happen.

37:22We'll be right back after this short break.

37:31It takes the hits, runs the miles, rebuilds while you sleep. It's felt every fall, every dance floor, every belly laugh. And in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor and this is Back Your Body the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have, the one you have with your body from scars to self-care the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love we're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them neglected them, rebuilt them or finally learned to listen to them it's time to back your body the way it's always back to you back your body, subscribe now your body will thank you

38:16welcome back to made by mummies in the beginning of the february she finally i was ring we would ring and we would text each other all the time when was the last time you'd seen her so i saw her on christmas day yeah um she came home christmas she would always come home christmas eve we always have christmas eve as a family christmas eve dinner all dressed up in matching pajamas the cliche thing always for years and years and years it's her favorite day of the year like Christmas Eve hot chocolates all that didn't come home she wouldn't come home she said she was at her friends and I then found out she wasn't there she was obviously at her flat off her head by herself by herself by herself I didn't know that at the time obviously but yeah she said oh I'm around so-and-so with their little boy and it was all lies but um she did turn up on Christmas day for a few hours then she left and then I was trying I'd constantly was like look I've booked this thing for the 28th I booked this thing for the 30th do you want to meet up and um she would cancel kept canceling canceling and I didn't see her then until probably towards the end of January she just would not come home and then eventually she did and I was she didn't look too bad she wouldn't look too thin and I was saying how are you what yeah I'm all right I'm okay I'm doing better and I'm just really busy with work and whatever and then about a week into of February she called me and she said mom I'm really bad again I was like then you need to come home and she said and I'll never forget it and she said okay but I've got a lash appointment tonight and I was like saying to my husband she's joking me she said she said this is this is where her brain is at right she's like it was her brain wasn't working right like I could she was so bright yeah and i think i was like honor we're talking about this is very very serious never mind lashes yeah leave the lashes very conflicting and she she i just knew she wasn't thinking straight no no i'll come back i'll come back i just need to get my lashes done and anyway she did she came home she said yeah i'm really struggling i said you're gonna have to come back you're gonna have to you're not gonna be able to go out again for a while we're gonna have to do we're gonna do it together we sat down the kitchen table and i said we will do this as a you know my my son and my daughter have got their own lives because they're young adults I said but me you and dad we will do this together we'll go out for dates together we'll go for coffees together we'll go to the gym together you are not doing this on your own we'll do it as a threesome and she was like yeah okay I'll do it yeah and then she was at home for like four days drug tested her every day but she kept failing but I thought that was because it was in our system still and then on the Friday she said I'm just going to go out for a Chinese with a work lot and I was like do you think that's a good idea she went mum it's a Chinese I'm not going out I needed to live I can't be a recluse I was like I know but this is early days on like much she was like mum I'm working tomorrow everybody that's working tomorrow is going out for this Chinese we're going to be in early you can wait up and I was like oh god okay yeah But so again, she went for the Chinese.

41:27The next, I fell asleep and I thought, she's going to be around so-and-so. Show me where she was. And it was a nice person. Next morning, she came in and I looked at her. I went, morning. And I went into her bedroom and she looked at me and her eyes, I just knew. And do you think she'd been up all night? I don't think she'd been up all night, but she'd definitely been taking it that night. And she looked at me and I looked at her and I went, have you taken something? And she went, I'm sorry, mum, I can't do it. And I went, and I just was, I didn't know what to say to her. I left her bedroom. I went and sat in the front room, in the kitchen, sorry, sat with a cup of tea and I was just crying.

42:06Yeah. And she came in with a bag and she said, I'm going to go and stay at my friend's tonight, mum. And I went, I just hugged her and I said, I love you and I'm praying for you. And that was the last time I saw her. And she was crying. And she left that day. Where did she go, Sarah? She went to her friends. And then I was just heartbroken and I just had a feeling that something bad was going to happen. And then the next week it was Valentine's Day. We text each other and rang throughout the week. But just very, like, she was very elusive. And then on Valentine's Day, I messaged her in the morning and said, Happy Valentine's Day.

42:52my first true love. I love you more than you'll ever know. And she said, I love you, mummy. And then on the Sunday, I text her another message, love heart, and she didn't reply. And then my mum was texting her saying, are you going to come around for pancakes for pancake day? And she was like, oh, I don't know if I'm working late, whatever. And then she went into work on the Monday. She said that she had a doctor's appointment, so she left early. and she went home and she took her own life. And I got a call on Tuesday from the work saying she hasn't come in today. And I knew. Did you? I just knew.

43:35But luckily my mum was on the way round to her apartment to take her washing round and my mum found her. I mean, you can't even, the pain you must be feeling I think Georgia and I both and everybody listening it's almost unbearable to hear it so we are both so incredibly sorry I guess thank you thank you firstly for sharing that and thank you for talking to us about honour thank you um I want to ask you what you want to do now because the tragedy that you've just experienced honour's life can't be for nothing exactly that and you've been so brave on your socials talking about you know raising awareness around cancer addiction and what you're trying to do so let's talk about that yeah so I feel I just feel a lot of anger towards the fact that I didn't know the information that I've had to dig and search for since Anna died and it's only because I've put her story out there and I wasn't going to I wasn't going to I wasn't going to say anything because I didn't want to I didn't want people to know that she was an addict she would have been mortified if people thought that but I made a decision because I thought this cannot be this can't just be us it's going through so I put I decided to to share her story and since then it's opened a can of worms like hundreds and hundreds of families are going through what I'm going through they've lost their children they don't know where to turn the information's not there the support's not there so my I suppose my initial intention was to share on a story I remember being at school and being you know 15 16 years old and I don't know if you remember Leah Betts oh yeah her dad came in her dad came into my school and I thought and I never touched ecstasy because of that story and I thought to myself I need my little girl to be that much of an example to young people because they don't understand how dangerous this drug is.

45:43They don't see it like ecstasy. The parents don't see it like ecstasy. It's one of the worst drugs that you could possibly take as a young person and there's no education around it. The schools aren't educating on it. and the fact that young people are so easily able to get it now is terrifying it's easier for them to get than alcohol and vapes it's easier they can get it delivered it's cheap they get it delivered to their schools they get it delivered to their houses via snapchat there's people on snapchat that just posting friday deals and all of these things so my mission is lots of different things I've set up on H23 Foundation and my main goal is a couple of things really.

46:27Number one is to raise awareness by going around schools. I really want to be the Leah Betts dad of today because the drug which is current and which is killing our children is ketamine. It's not ecstasy as much as it was anymore. It's ketamine. And it's like a tsunami that's underground that you don't know about. And if you're a parent, you need to know about it. Yeah. And I want to teach the parents the signs, what to look for, what I missed. What, what, like, if you could sort of impart that information on anyone listening, what would that, what signs did you miss? I would, yeah, I would go, I would have, I would have ignored the information I found online to find out that it's not addictive because it is 100 % addictive.

47:06Because their brains, the prefrontal cortex of the brain for an under 25 year old, which is the main target audience of this drug, which is being distributed on social media platforms at the moment, is, it's not formed. we know that so the gray matter of the brain which makes their decision making their their vital thinking skills their emotional well-being it's if you were to do a brain scan of honor's brain i would i never did we never did it but i would guarantee there would be big holes in the gray matter which affects how they can then regulate their own emotions so by taking it so young it it's almost like when they stop taking it they can't be happy again on their own and this is the problem they get very hooked very quickly to the feeling of this anesthesia it numbs if they're being you know having a bit of a hard time at school their friends are being a bit mean or whatever it numbs it completely numbs it yeah it's a tranquil it's a tranquilizer so it just completely takes out and they learn very quickly the brain is so clever they learn very quickly oh if i take that i don't need to experience anything uncomfortable and it wears off so quickly it within an hour they're back to their normal self but what they don't realize is how quickly the brain actually does become dependent and this is the problem i mean it's so it's such an epidemic there's actually to the point now in liverpool there's a whole unit in the older hay hospital for under 18s that are being admitted with ketamine related problems health problems mental and physical it's because because it's not just the bladder it's not the bladder it's the whole thing yeah and i think people are really becoming quite aware of the bladder issues it's bladder if you speak about ketamine they go what's that cause bladder issues but what they're not talking about and understanding is is the mental health and the brain issues and the massive effect it has and it's almost irreversible yeah and what would the signs be you know for someone you know like you who has no experience with drugs yeah there'll be so many parents listening who will be feeling the same yeah what what should you look out well i i wish i looked into her bank statements was when I was young when she was younger I wish I had some kind of handle on that right um there was lots that needs to be done in terms of social media which I'm working on as well for us to have visibility as parents I'm working with Snapchat I'm working with with lots of different organizations to try and really give us some more like not even control but just visibility um but really it's it's understanding the shift in their mood their mental health why are they suddenly always tired the weight loss, the plastic bags, lots of things which I look back now and think they were all little like breadcrumb signs but I just didn't know.

49:46How do you go forward from here apart from your campaigning side from the you know the amazing work that you're now doing how does your beautiful family start to rebuild their lives? I don't know if we I don't know if we ever will to be honest the only way that I can say that I am surviving as a parent is by doing what I'm doing for honor I can't not talk about honor every day and I can't I can't leave let I can't leave her behind I can't leave her behind so I have to do what I'm doing selfishly because it lets me talk about her every day and it lets me show her pictures all of the time and it lets me keep her alive it's her birthday next Sunday a week on Sunday it's her birthday she would have been 24 and I'm going to celebrate her yeah and I'm going to celebrate her for the rest of my life and how are her siblings doing they're heartbroken yeah they're heartbroken very very close um they idolize each other her screensaver was you know brother and sister yeah so it's it's left us all heartbroken but we're all now just trying to live in honor of her and the beautiful person she was and to help as many people as a family, actually, not just me.

51:01The kids are passionate about it as well. My son's doing a white-collar boxing match to raise money for the foundation. And my daughter wants to talk to young people about it because she knows the reality of what's going on in her age group with this drug. So we're all just trying to do our bit to keep her alive and prevent any other family from going what we're going through. and for families listening who maybe don't know that much about their the young people in their houses yeah you know we want to respect their privacy there's a fine line what would you say to them have the have the conversations be open um I wish I I felt like I was open but I wish that there was less shame for honor to tell me the truth and be open because if she told me I maybe you would have been able to help her sooner um be mindful have the conversations make it a safe space and i know you feel like that you don't want to talk about drugs to to maybe feel like i don't want to give them the you know insight to it the reality is you have to because they're going to find out about it and they need to know you know give them the information and let them understand what they are actually dealing with because they are brighter than we than we think kids and if they know the reality of i believe on i didn't believe that ketamine was a big deal i do believe that she believed that with because nobody does it's only now the reality of it is like wow this is almost like as bad if not worse as heroin for young people so yeah have the conversations and I hope to bring a directory for people of information resources through the foundation that is just going to make it so much easier for people to find out what they're looking for and the charity is h23 foundation okay amazing sarah thank you thank you thank you for having me um yes that was a lot to take in and like i said in the beginning it's something i've thought about every day and i've just been talking a lot about friends particularly friends who have got kids you know 13 14 15 um just to let them know what's going on i think we can have an amazing relationship with our kids but we all know that there's a period of time where teenagers do break away and they can be very clever with hiding things and I just think if we're all you know a bit more educated on the signs and we kind of know a little bit more about what's going on then something like this won't happen again.

53:36If you do want to reach out to Sarah she's sarahthebodycoach on Instagram or you can check out the foundation, which is the H23 Foundation, and they are doing some incredible work. Thank you again to Sarah for coming on and sharing her story. We hope that we've helped to spread some awareness. But again, if you want to get in touch with us or you've got any feedback on this episode, do drop us a message on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mamas and we'll be back on Friday.

54:12Evening. Buyer's remorse. Buy a new car? I'll be moving in. Let's get started. Uh, sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no... No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyer's rejoice? Ugh, I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyer's rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Corpana.com. It takes the hits, runs the miles, rebuilds while you sleep. It's felt every fall, every dance floor, every belly laugh.

54:50And in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor, and this is Back Your Body, the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have, the one you have with your body. From scars to self-care, the bits you love, and the bits you've learned to love, We're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them or finally learned to listen to them. It's time to back your body the way it's always back to you. Back your body. Subscribe now. Your body will thank you.