The First-Ever 'No Filter Friday'!

0:00Hello and welcome to Made by Mum as the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman and I'm Georgia Dayton and this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits with five kids between G and I we have seen a lot we really have each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way in short we're the parenting podcast for you before we get started hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands and they're on Tuesdays and Fridays and it really helps if you leave a rating and a review You can also find us on Instagram.

0:34We're on at Made by Mummies. But for now, George, should we get into it? Thank fuck it's Friday. Thank God it's not filtered Friday. What are we calling this episode? No filter Friday. Welcome to It's No Filter Friday. It rolls off the tongue. It does. If only you could hear how many attempts we've just had at that. Listen guys, welcome to your Friday's episode of the podcast. We are doing a Q &A today but what we wanted to do was kind of reflect on what's been going on on socials over the last couple of weeks since we posted the video of Luna and Kit swearing with the voice notes and the bad language and the sort of wonderfully kind of raw and honest moment between two siblings and it was obviously it was like highs and lows with that because obviously it was very funny and we were laughing won't we George yeah but then before I posted it I did think oh my god is this too honest you know yeah is it too much yeah I know and I know that you said you actually did feel a little bit of shame around it and so when you do feel shame it's really hard to share right whether you know because you don't know how people are going to react when you put that out you don't know that you you know we're going to get so many messages of people like with from people saying oh my gosh I'm so glad you posted this my kids do this too all of that because before you hit you know post you don't know the reaction and so I know how you felt and you felt like a bit unsure whether to share it or not and I and I'm totally with you on it but I'm so glad you did.

2:17Yeah and me and me and oh my gosh someone sent us a message going oh for goodness sakes these kids have sworn not murdered somebody yeah and I think that was you know that was a sort of stark light on the fact that yeah the language was bad but actually they were trying it out with each other but my in my mind I was thinking gosh firstly judgment I thought people would judge me for being a bad mother secondly I was I was thinking um are people going to think that I'm raising them to be you know little swearing hooligans um and so there was all that all that noise that was coming in but actually I'm really glad I'm really glad that we did it and I'm really glad that I shared it because the responses from people that listen to this podcast and follow us online have been absolute magic haven't they yeah absolutely and I think it just goes to show as well as much as we all think we're in this kind of era of parenting where we're all really open and honest we're actually not and there's obviously so many things that people still feel like they can't share and I think that's why we wanted to start doing these no filter Fridays to talk about the stuff that we still feel some shame around.

3:25People still feel like they can't share because ultimately, right, if you're listening to a parenting podcast and I'm sure 99 % of parents out there do not want to raise dickheads. We're all trying to raise nice, well-rounded kids. Polite humans. Polite kids, okay? That is always going to be our aim. I'm sure there is no one listening to this podcast who's thinking, do you know what? I actually want to raise a complete arsehole. That's what I want to do. And so we want to normalize the things that we still feel a little bit apprehensive to talk about among peer groups, friends, family, whatever.

4:09Exactly. Because we're scared of being judged, aren't we, George? And one of the things that you and I were discussing before we pressed record today was about, you know, we hear the stories when, you know, a horrible thing happens to one of our kids at school and they might be bullied, right? We hear about the child that is bullied, but we don't hear about the child who has done the bullying. Because in our eyes, we're like, well, we could never speak about that. Even if our child is absolutely wonderful, right? But they, you know, they having an altercation with somebody or, you know, actually they're acting out at school.

4:43And that doesn't mean that they should be written off forever. You know, those parents are not raising them to be bullies, right? In some cases, perhaps, but in other cases, let's be honest here, probably a large majority of them are raising them, like you said, to be brilliant, wonderful humans. And they just happen to be the bully. So we need to be able to hold space for all of it. That if we as parents are dealing with it in the right way, we cannot control what our kids say and do to a degree. No, not at all times we can't. And also, I think it's really important to say that you don't always get it right.

5:13Like as adults, we don't always get it right. So how are our kids expected to always get it right? You know, we, and when we sort of mention, we say bullying, this might not be ongoing bullying. This might be little things that have happened that you feel embarrassed about. And ultimately, if you're on the receiving end of, you know, somebody coming up to you at school or in the playground saying your child's been mean to mine, we want to breed sort of like a time where a space where you can have that conversation rather than feeling like somebody's going to be. get really defensive because they're feeling attacked yes well I had it with Kit yesterday he came back home and he said mommy I've got a consequence and that's the worst one you can get that really makes me laugh a consequence sorry that you have to go see the head the headmistress so he's at a point where he has to go see the headmistress and I said oh gosh Kit I said what's happened you know talk to me about the story and he said I was playing in the playground with a ball that I found in my bag one of Murphy's tennis balls and I was just playing it a little boy came over to me snatched the ball out of my hand and threw it over the wall out of the school ground so I couldn't play with it and I said to the boy why did you do that and he said because I don't like you and Kit at that point pushed him and he fell over onto his bum and then this boy went and told the teacher and Kit was the one that was given the consequence and Kit said it's really unfair because I was happily playing by myself I was enjoying just throwing the ball up and down I was having a really nice time and then a little boy came over to me took the ball and told me that he didn't like me and he said my feelings were hurt and it came out in anger those were his words and I said well thank you so much for sharing that with me I said obviously we can't use our hands like that we mustn't use physical force so what you should have done in my eyes is go and speak to somebody about it and he said yeah okay you know but I was really hurt and I was like okay where do we sit on that because actually my son is now the one that's being told well he's the one that pushed him but what about the preamble leading up to that I know in my eyes saying to to a little kid who you don't even know I don't like you that is going to hurt someone's feelings correct yeah I wouldn't like it yeah and also if you'd have had the parent come up to you just before you've spoken to Keir and said your child pushed my child over you don't know the context of that and if there if there isn't a conversation and someone doesn't feel like they can say it then you'll never have got to the bottom of it I know 100 % and also neither of us are to blame as parents in this situation we have to be able to have the conversation to be like do you know what i'm sorry about that and for sugar yeah i'm sorry about that kids you know kids playing let's sort it out but you don't know if that's the response you're going to get and actually fear comes into it like i was worried i was like should i contact the mom you know but let's be honest i think we all go through this at multiple times during the week so we wanted to throw out to you guys today to share the stuff that's been going on in your kids lives that maybe you don't want to share with like georgia said you know the mum's whatsapp group or the other mothers at the playground because you're feeling a bit ashamed about it.

8:13Let's normalise it. George, kick us off. Yeah, I'm going to start with this one. Is it bad that I love Monday to Friday over the weekend? Husband works every Saturday too. Right. Firstly, I don't think that's bad. No, I don't either. I don't think that's bad. No. Let's talk about the weekends honestly here, George. Yeah, I know. And I think you go through periods, right, of parenting that you can enjoy and that, you know, you might find a time. Some people love the newborn stage. Some people love having teenagers. Everyone's at different points and feels like in a different way about it. But some weekends are horrific.

8:55Like they are horrific. There's no other way to go about it. One of my good friends, I talk about her a lot on this podcast, bless her. But she lives in Singapore and at the weekends, if her husband is away, she has someone who lives in with them, but who doesn't work at the weekends. She doesn't have family to have a break with. She feels like everyone is out with their own individual families at the weekend. And when she's on her own with the kids, she said, I count down the hours until Monday. And I think not many people speak about that. Not many people speak about actually wanting to go to work to get away from their children because it's normal to feel like that.

9:40And it doesn't mean you don't love your children. I think there's two different things, actually. I think you can love your children but not enjoy being a parent. The job of being a parent. Right. Okay. You've just hit the nail on the head there. The job of being a parent, not all parts of that are fun. Let's break it down here. Let's stop sugarcoating it. you know the constant meal making getting up with them to get in the dress you know doing doing the sort of taxis here and there to take you don't have a second to yourself ever and then the rest of the time you're either working or looking after them during the week yeah yeah it's tough it is it's really tough and it is all consuming and I think again when you go from you know when you have a newborn or you have toddlers and they go to sleep you look forward to those time and I did anyway like I would really look forward to when there was a nap or you know when I would when they would go to bed at six or seven o 'clock and then suddenly they get older and you don't get those evenings so much anymore you don't get the weekends because at the weekends they're staying up later you know they almost kind of want to watch what you're watching in the evenings as well sometimes you don't get a break there is no separation and I think it's a really hard transition that like to go from where it's really obviously it's still really hard when you've got toddlers and newborns it definitely is but you have those like times where you're like yes race to six o 'clock race to seven o 'clock you know whatever it is right race to lunchtime where i might get two hours whatever it is but now it's race for them to get to school me and george used to message each other because we were on the same time like napping schedule with Axel and Luna and we were living down the road so we used to spend all morning together and then we used to whatsapp each other and be like shit she's woken up early from her nap and George would be like Axel's still asleep and we're like oh god you know there would be those moments and that's not to do with your child that's to do with you not having any space for yourself like let's say that we are okay to say that and that's why it's really important to whenever you get the chance to carve in those moments for you and that does not mean going to Tesco's and doing the weekly shop.

11:50I just want to clear that up. I mean, I do actually really enjoy going to a big supermarket. I really do enjoy it, but not if I'm told to or I have to. That's quite different. When it's your own choice. When it's my choice. Yeah. So actually just going off the back of that, someone's put, I love my children, but I sometimes I really don't enjoy parenting life. I find it so hard. Well, thanks for sharing that with us um i really do think we're like fed this perfectly curated parenting world like foie gras down our throats that how it should look and look all my kids nap at the same time and they never spill bolognese down their tops and actually in reality they're chucking it against the wall they never go to sleep it takes two hours to put them down in the evenings like it's really really really difficult parts of it so thanks for sharing that with us i feel the same as well i was gonna gonna say someone else here has put will i ever not hate parenting three kids three kids six five and one and it's so fucking hard and also boring but it is parts of it are parts of it are really really boring like the park oh god we hate the park there was no fun to be had in the park Absolutely.

13:01I was at a trampoline park on Sunday and I was just sat there. I paid a hundred quid, right, to be there. I'm sitting there. I've gone, you know, got a coffee. It's disgusting. And I'm like, this is crap. Like this, this is really crap. This is Sunday. And then I'm going to come home from here and I'm going to make dinner and then we're going to go to bed and then it's going to be monday again that that is not fun like james and i actually had a conversation about it because we'd been to a trampoline park the week before yeah i think spending all your money on the trampoline park yeah i don't i let's just say i don't do those things normally and we felt a bit bad that we don't do those things so then two weeks in a row we have and then we've reminded ourselves why we don't and i think it's like we said to ourselves maybe once a month once every six weeks at the weekend we'll do something like that with the kids but ultimately it is our life as well and if the weekend we already spend taking them to football dancing all of that after that it's we can do stuff that we want to do like if they have to come to the shops with us they can if they have to come out for lunch with us they will like it is i think we've got to a point where we're making it so difficult because we think that they have to be entertained oh yeah doing kids stuff all the time all the time and we're not doing stuff for ourselves like my I could right I never George is on the rank guys I never went to Thorpe Park or I think maybe once Chessington yeah all of these places regularly not at all maybe once or twice in my childhood I definitely never went to a soft play ever like ever ever ever ever i went to tunbridge wells bowl once a year remember tunbridge wells bowl that was like a big night out we used to go once a year probably for my birthday now it's like you know you're going to an arcade you're going bowling going to the seat i mean we're doing wet like you said we're doing way too much last weekend after i dj'd on friday night i put a sign on my door saying do not disturb like i was in a hotel um because obviously the kids can go downstairs and make their um own breakfast i left the ipads out they went downstairs i stayed in bed till 10 o 'clock and I didn't feel guilty about it yeah football was cancelled because of the rain and I just thought I'm not I'm not yeah I need to have a rest I cannot go at full pelt seven days a week 24 hours a day forever no and we're all wondering why we're not enjoying it but it's because it's not it's not actually I don't think meant to I don't think it's meant to be all consuming in the way that it is or the way that we think it should be or has to be also let's caveat this by saying there are absolutely beautiful moments within all of that chaos because this isn't us just sitting here slating our parenting journey because georgia and i do love it and we talk about the fact that we love it but the majority of it when it comes to doing stuff is fucking tedious we'll be right back after this short break

16:08welcome back to this episode of made by mamas now where were we oh this one's brilliantly honest i I love it. How to stop shouting at smallest of things when exhausted and blood boiling. Well, firstly, we all do that. We all do that. And I have got into a real pattern of having, I'm almost like giving myself like an NFL pep talk. I'm like, I know this is going to piss me off because like doing homework with any of the kids, Luna gets really down on herself and starts lacking confidence. And I'm like, no, no, it's okay. And then she completely destroys the moment because she's like, I can't do it.

16:40I got to do it. Kit just doesn't want to do it. So I have a complete battle so I'm like right it's like I'm like going in like sleeves up you know a bit of brow like I've got this and then obviously it all goes to shit so what I've started doing is take turning away from my child taking a really big deep breath and in my mind just thinking you can do this you can do this you can do this but it's a really conscious mind moment you know like I have to go through that process otherwise I'm exactly the same and by the way I still I still shout when my blood's boiling so I don't always get it right but I think you have to be conscious around it um and if you find yourself getting into that situation get up and walk out the room but I do also think that shouting gets a really bad rap like it everyone is so scared to shout and they think that they're going to damage their kids forever if they're shouting but shouting does happen in real life as well and I think sometimes kids who have never heard shouting before can be really like taken aback by shouting in real life do you know what I mean like I just and I think there's a lot worse that we can be doing oh my god of course there is shouting like yeah I don't know and I'm not a shouty person like you know I'm not like it's that is not I'm not used to it at all like shouting but I don't I don't know I just think but it's horrible to shout though like I don't know about you but cortisol heart palpitations I'm not you know I definitely do do it but it doesn't get there is firstly for me it doesn't get the result yeah so it's like wasted shouting it only makes me feel worse but I do think it's a natural reaction like you ask them five or six times to put their shoes on or brush their teeth and they're still not fucking doing it yeah but i also think if you stay calm they don't either no exactly so what do you do then yeah i don't know but i just think you know like this i don't know there's a lot of shame around shouting yeah i get it and i just think yeah okay you know we listen to psychologists and stuff like that and we you know we know we shouldn't do it that much but i don't think we should be beating ourselves up as much as we do about shouting.

18:58Yeah. And I think it's also okay for the kids to see how much they've pushed you. Yeah. I don't mind that moment where they suddenly go, oh shit. Yeah. Like their faces, like they're like, okay, mommy, like they can see that they have tipped me. There's a consequence. Yeah. Go see the headmistress. There's a consequence. There's a consequence. Oh, okay. So, Pesela said, I would love to hear listeners' honest opinions about having the second baby real advice needed yeah okay where should we start because having the second baby for you and I I think was um not as hard as having the first baby yeah I would that be fair to say I would 100 % say that and if you've listened to the podcast you will know that even when I was pregnant with Gigi, I was still really unsure as whether it was something that I guess I even wanted.

19:53Like I'd always, I'd never planned like, oh, I really want a big family or anything like that. And then I fell pregnant with Axel. We hadn't planned that. So that happened, but that was a good surprise. Great. Then again, that happened with Gigi and I don't, I just really didn't know how I felt about it so I'm with this person and the feeling of like not being 100 % sure about a second child and I think I don't think you ever regret having a second child I'm sure many people listening to this might have moments where they regret it you know like that's normal like thinking why have I done this but I think like practically it really depends like and I say this all the time to like mates who say oh how is it being an only child how is it being an only child great like my parents have more money don't you yeah my parents have more money to spend on me I got loads of attention like that you have to look at your life like if you love luxury holidays you like going to adult places you know that one child can tag along with you you love your life then you love your life like that and that's fine don't have any children if you love your life but you know what I mean and I think that's that is honest like I don't think you ever regret it having a second child you won't and you're will adapt but if it's going to change your lifestyle and a lifestyle you love then that's something to be considered I love that advice George I'm not sure I've got anything to add on that because I love having two three kids in the house you know sometimes it's three sometimes it's two and I absolutely love that they got each other so for me it was about I grew up with an older sister and we were super close and we are she's my best friend and I love that we got each other through various milestones in our lives and you know losing dad and when mum got cancer and I had someone there that understood it um saying that you know I have no I don't know what it's like to be an only child all I know is that I see my three together and And it's joy.

22:05Yeah. You know, they really do love spending time together. And now they've got to that age where they can go to the shops, you know, they can go to the park, they walk Murphy, they can do things on their own. It's lovely. And I have visions of them, you know, when they're older, maybe sharing a flat together in London or, you know, I don't know. Like, I just, for me, it was never going to be one. Yeah. And once you've gone through it once and you know what an absolute shitstorm is, the second one just kind of gets on with it. I was going to say, I think on the whole, speaking to friends like the two of us, the second is always, well, usually easier.

22:41It's harder to go from nought to one than one to two. One to two. That's what we say. So like when you ask people as well, like, oh, you know, well, you have a third, we have a fourth. Every child brings an extra dynamic and more like they take some of your time away. So that is that's real and realistic. If you have one child, you can spend more time with them. But yeah. Ultimately, it's up to you. It is. Let us know. Feeling guilty for not being at home more. I work part time and it's a lot. Oh gosh. Yeah. The guilt. Can we just talk about the mum guilt? Why are we not allowed to say that we feel guilty?

23:23Why are we not allowed to say that we're also not that present because we're working our asses off? You know, I do find that side of parenting really, really difficult. Like there are certain times where I think I don't want to go out to work. I don't want to go and do an overnight in Wales. Like I don't want to go travel halfway up the country and go and stay in a premiere. Like I don't want to do that. And I miss being with them but then I love my job so there is that constant push and pull Georgia and I've written a couple of articles actually one for Grazia where we were like it's time to leave guilt at the door okay because let's break this down you are providing for your family you are also hopefully doing a career that lights you up and that you love and also when you're with your kids I bet you are the most present brilliant mother so please please try if you can not to feel guilty about you know about having a job and having a career your kids will never look at you and go oh my god my mom wasn't there they'll look at you and they'll be like mom went out to work and that's great yeah yeah and also just like that sometimes there is no choice like I think yeah that's the thing like that nowadays we're set up that quite often families can't run on one income so that is the stage that we're in and so guilt is not gonna help the situation it's one of those emotions that is really difficult but it's not you know he's not doing anything by feeling guilty so no you're better to try and reframe how you think and look at it in a different way yeah completely agree but I do think as well comparisons of thief of joy like you can might look at somebody who is with their kids all of the time and think oh that's what I want that's better you know I'd rather be doing that but the reality might not be that and that's not your reality so no about your unfiltered Fridays it's not a shame as such but I'm really torn up about stopping breastfeeding my little boy has just turned three though I need my body back and Botox and don't want him to become the butt of the bitty joke.

25:32Also, prob's worse that he's my last, but I'm hoping you can help me feel more positive about it. Oh, there's lots going on there, isn't there? You can already feel the internal battle that this person's having. So what I'm hearing is that she wants her body back. So let's just go to that. Absolute reason to stop. If you feel like you've done it and you want to reclaim some of yourself, then I would say now is the moment also absolutely fucking right go and have some Botox after you finished if that's what you need to do to make yourself look like you've had 12 hours sleep when you haven't um and but you can tell that it's like it's the last one so you don't want to step out of that that bubble and because if you know you're never going to do it again you want to cling on to it but three years oh my god you deserve a medal it's so but also if you're worried about what other people think and the whole bitty joke don't like don't worry about the external noise but also know that you are so not alone in wanting to stop breastfeeding because you want Botox I yeah I mean a lot of my friends I mean I've got a friend who has just had a baby and chose not to breastfeed because she wanted to have Botox so I love that that's what goes on and that's I mean let me make you feel better let me make you feel better I stopped breastfeeding kit at nine weeks because I wanted to go on one of my best friends 40th to Mykonos and I knew that I was going to be away for four nights and I wanted to go and have an absolute blast and drink loads of alcohol and stay up all night and so that's the reason that I stopped breastfeeding yeah he did have no no no I'm just I'm not going to caveat that that is the reason that I stopped breastfeeding and I am absolutely okay with that choice I'm fine with it you have had this person you've had the most brilliant brilliant three years of doing it but it seems like from what you're saying you're ready to stop so I would just support that and be like go on you've done an absolute job for your baby now it's time to get yourself back exactly and also if there's anyone listening to this who doesn't want to breastfeed or you do not have to explain yourself to anyone like that is I think even look look back to when we had like Gigi and Kit and we'd sort of say oh you know I'm gonna breastfeed I'm gonna try breastfeeding I'm gonna do that I'm oh I'm going to give up now because listen it's your choice like it doesn't it doesn't matter it's up to you if you want to say oh I don't want to breastfeed because I don't like it that's fine I don't want to breastfeed because I want Botox I don't want to breastfeed because I want to go on a girl's holiday you don't even need to give the reason you absolutely don't what a bloody great point George it's just there's going to be so many people as well that look at you and like probably from like the older generations as we know that they can come out with some absolute whoppers of comments but I would just ignore all of it like Georgia said it's completely your decision and stick to it but it's like that with so much isn't isn't it with like parenting like we go on about I don't know phones for instance right and I haven't given my kids a phone but I'm not judging anyone who has you know like I'm not like because I'm sure everyone's decision is thought out in their own you know in their own ways like or given them a playstation i've given actual playstation i thought about that before you know i don't need anyone to to say oh well i i wouldn't do that because of such and such and such i've thought about it and i've decided that's what's right um such an interesting point it's our child our choice but i do think i do think also if you think about if there was a manual for parenting someone you when you gave birth someone walked in and was like here you go here's a book yeah everything in this book exactly as it says we would all have exactly the same experiences exactly the same children at the end of it we would not be individual we would not get to make our own choices we'd be basically handmade tale like you this is our parenting journey to make decisions to choose if you want to reclaim your body if you want to shun breastfeeding because you don't want to do it do it like just do it and if someone raises their eyebrows at you when they walk away give them the bird we'll be right back after this short break

29:53welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas now where were we? what do you feel judged about at the moment? like with parents like what? um what do I feel judged about at the moment? um I'm trying to think um okay so probably the element that i feel most judged about is the fact that we've got a full-time nanny um housekeeper yeah we never talk about this yeah but this is my reality because we have taylor who's absolutely amazing who works with us monday to thursday and she comes in she sorts the house out she comes in at 11 she works from 11 till 5 she does she doesn't do i do the drop off in the morning but she really really helps and if she has to stay late because i'm working there are some days when I'm here working from home where I could go and pick the kids up from school and do you know what it's not other people judging me it's the kids saying to me are you going to pick me up from school today and I go no no I'm working they go yeah but you're working from home why is Taylor doing I'm like if I if I don't have her full time I can't have her at all so I do feel a little bit I do feel a little bit like and there are some comments that come in like oh I haven't seen you for ages and I'm like because I'm because I'm working so I think the element of being such a busy working mum makes me feel a bit guilty.

31:07But in terms of judgment, I think that's probably the judgment I'm putting on myself. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. And I do think people do judge people still for having help at home. I do. I really think that there is like a bit of a, I don't know, an eyebrow raise or whatever. But it's so circumstantial as well. Like you just said, if I don't have her full-time, I can't have her at all. Like it's not easy to find flexible childcare. If you've got a flexible job, like both of us have got a flexible working pattern. I now have my parents who pick the kids up from school. Do you think anyone talks about me, my parents picking the kids up from school?

31:50No, no, not at all. Do you think people used to talk about it when our nanny picked them up from school? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yes, they did. Yeah. Yeah, but it's exactly the same. Like, it's the same. I just don't pay them. Yeah, and if I had parents that live close by, they'd probably help me out. Yeah, exactly. Actually, hang on a minute. My mum wouldn't. She'd be off doing her own thing. Well, I'll tell you what I was judged about the other day. Go on. What do you feel judged about? Well, no, no. I was judged about it from my mum. My mum and dad pulled up on the drive and I was laying in the living room having my eyelashes done.

32:29and they said oh I thought you were working and I was like well this is my break this this is my I'm I'm on a break this is my lunchtime and it was probably like three o 'clock in the afternoon but I was laying on like a beauty table as they pulled up like the drive like and they pulled up to the side of the house and I was face on with them like out the window so I was judged by that yeah but they're allowed to judge you because they're your parents they made you true yeah exactly just don't let them catch you again having one of your secret spa massages when you know i know i do that at night we do that at night yeah yeah with no judgment um thank you so much for sending in today's questions what a lovely conversation and hopefully this will help you guys feel a little bit better about all those things you're struggling with we're going to do one of these um you know every now and again aren't we yeah lift the shame and just make everyone feel a bit more accepting of their choices yeah exactly and if there's just anything that's gone on in your life that you want to get off your chest um then send it over to us and we'll yeah like Zoe said we're going to carry on doing these these episodes and also just see what comes up like the topics that maybe we haven't come across yet but you guys are going through yeah we just want to keep the lines of communication open around this and also let's be really really honest with our parenting let's share the stuff that is going on because if we don't share it with our mates and we don't share it with the people around us how will we ever make any changes and how will we ever go forward and like bust out all those taboos that people just don't want to talk about we've got to do it we're going to bring all the real parenting so thank you thank you thank you for being part of it as always we'd love you to rate review subscribe and please give our podcast a follow yeah and if you've got any feedback on this episode or guests you'd like to hear from topics you'd like us to cover, drop us a DM on Instagram.

34:18We're on Outmade by Mummers and we'll be back on Tuesday.