Zoe & Georgia

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1:21That's S-E-R-V-A-L dot com slash tickets.

1:32Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review.

2:05You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hello. She's back from her holidays. Hey. I am. I'm tired. I'm really tired. We got in the house at 4.30 this morning, I think. and then of course I'd order my food shop for like half seven so yeah not a lot of sleeping going on but I'm all right I've always been more tired like you say there's always been a time where you feel more tired I remind myself always ask yourself that question have I felt worse and the answer is always yes straight away after you have a baby you always feel worse but you know what welcome back and you're disguising your tiredness with your beautiful beautiful cypriot tan oh thank you thank you very much yeah it's actually um i think i what did i put on my face some l 'oreal fluid something or the other i can't remember what it's called it's a bronze spf and it's amazing so it's actually fake this is not real extra glory for today's podcast george yes yeah but yeah how are you because you've been back into the swing of things for a little bit now yeah i'm great i just did my last show of the summer on breakfast which is always really sad because I don't want to stop doing it.

3:22It's so fun. I've had the best summer ever. But I got a lovely little shout out at the end from JC. And just, I've just, you know what? I look back at my career and I think, aren't I doing some fucking cool things? And I keep that with me. And I think, right, I've done that, compartmentalize that. And now I move on to the next and it'll give me loads of space to focus on other projects that we want to focus on and all the rest of it. But always, yeah, it's sort of happy, sad day to day because I just love doing it so much. and you also don't have to get up at like 4am so there's always a positive every cloud exactly exactly and also another another positive is i don't know if you saw my inter story over the weekend we have a fucking winner baby kia ate mashed potatoes with mashed up carrots inside them are you joking me i know i did i cracked up when i saw the broccoli on the plate and i was like she's still there she's she's still hanging in like i swear anyone who's not been listening to this podcast for you know seven years or whatever it's been zoe has been putting broccoli on kit's plate every day for seven years yeah when you talk about not giving up she has not given up and she's not giving up god loves a trier i've never had i eaten so much broccoli in my life because he obviously, he laughs at me now.

4:43He's like, he's such a loser. Why do you keep putting it on my plate? But I just will not. Someone said something to us about seven years ago that you have to present them with a certain food. Is it like 20 times or something? Well, I've done it 2 ,000 times and he's never once taken a bite. In fact, he did do it once, but he did it for a tenner. And then do you remember he started going, and it was like a scene from a bush tucker trial from I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here. Yeah, no, I do. And this is the funniest thing because we've interviewed so many experts and weaning experts and all of this.

5:15And we've got so much information and we really like kind of know what we're doing now. But it just shows you like I remember that woman saying like, don't worry, keep it on the plate every day. It's all about familiarity. Well, I'm not being funny. I'm sure like Kit could probably draw the intricacies of a broccoli head with his eyes closed by now. and yet he's still got no interest in eating it at all. I swear to God we've broken the mould with this kid. We've broken the mould with this kid because all these experts have come on and they've been talking to us about what we need to do and he is doing it.

5:54And when he's doing it, he's going like this. Yeah, literally. He's sticking the birdie up at me and going, you are having a laugh, Mum. I think there's a gap in the market for like a second child, like theory because I have exactly the same like Axel like was like the you know you followed the parenting guide they did what they were supposed to do you know like all of that yeah and then it's like you have a second one it's like they need like a different version of the weaning book for a second child or probably a third child as well because they just don't they don't play by the rules they don't follow them it's like the feral third or the the feral second yeah we need we need to you're absolutely right but to be honest with you I will not give up like it's it's now a Taurus meeting a Scorpio in a death match and I will not give up I will continue to put broccoli I always eat it so I'm getting I'm getting some of my five and eight so it's fine it's not going to waste I feel like we've had like God pretty much six weeks of not really recording and like you know being with the kids and working and trying to juggle it all but what else is going on do you know what george i think we've done well this summer because we've managed to keep the podcast going you've been away i went away we've been working we've been trying to do it all with parenting so it has been quite a lot and i think the overriding feeling and i don't know what life is like at home in the dayton household but in the paul doran jones so we harvin household we have definitely been quietly getting on each other's tits and yeah and then we had um a fairly big argument at the weekend but what was interesting was where the argument stemmed from so i wanted to talk to you today about those micro resentments and i think we talked about this about a year ago on the pod about you know how it's those little things between a couple that brew and bubble away and then they explode into something that is really quite damaging and quite bad now so just talk to me about how you guys navigate arguments like what does an argument look like for you two um oh we both handle arguments in a different way um I am like when I'm cross I sort of go in like I go quiet I'm not quiet I'm probably not that quiet um but I internalize yeah I internalize because I have this thing of like don't sweat the small stuff don't sweat the small stuff don't take the small stuff but then the small stuff like piles up like even this morning um you know we got home at half four uh the food shop arrived at half seven i'm the one who gets up unloads the food shop and then i look around bearing in mind james had a week by himself at home one week we have a cleaner we have someone who cleans the house the house was clean but there was like the dishwasher was still had the stuff in it from when I left oh so I like you know like I opened the dishwasher and I was like is this like is this a joke like this is a joke and I went into the utility room and there's just like piles of washing everywhere and you know when you're like oh my god if I had a week to myself with no kids this like nothing none of this would be here and it really pissed me off so we've actually got one of those brewing right now um like right now and he he even said to me like what's wrong what's wrong I'm like nothing nothing I'm fine I'm fine he's I can tell from your face you're not fine oh no I am I'm absolutely fine so that's how I deal with it and it's probably not right but it's because I don't want a big argument to explode it's almost like in my mind I think I haven't got time for a big argument so I'm just gonna have to like what do you want to say to him down what the fuck like what what what do I want to say to him?

9:47What am I saying to him on my head? I want to say, what the fuck? This isn't good enough. Like, you're useless. What else do I want to say? I want to say lots of things, but I won't. So you'll never go, so then hold on. So then how do you ever have arguments? Because if you're not saying anything. No, we do, because then it will get to a point where I'll crack and then I'll say it and then we have a big argument and it's gone too far. Whereas James on the other side, he will say things straight away and like almost too, like too soon. Do you know what I mean? Like he will get pissed off about something that's like really small.

10:25So we're trying to navigate it and trying to get better. But essentially when you're really tired and, you know. It's hard to, isn't it? It's hard to. It's really, really hard to. To do the right thing. It's really hard to. And actually I think what was fascinating, because I'll hold my hands up here. I can be so defensive like if I think I am being attacked or if I think I'm being criticized yeah or if I think that my work isn't good enough or if I think that I'm being told that I'm not mothering in the right way or like I can just get super Scorpio about it and I can just be really really defensive and it must be really frustrating to live with um so it's definitely my that you know I need to really have a look at that I have been trying to work on that for 42 two years and it still hasn't quite hit with the broccoli like it with the broccoli we're a work in progress George um so a very small situation came up about the post okay so what I try because I'm the homemaker and I try really really hard to make everything nice at home and I was thinking it'd be really great for Doz if when the post comes in um I'll just put it in a pile for him and so I've been doing that you know taking time out of my day trying to make it easy so I posted in a pile and then obviously he went to Australia we went to Ibiza and he missed a really important letter and so he came into the bedroom and he said quite quietly can we get a system where I don't miss letters and in my mind I heard why the fuck haven't you been organizing the letters properly this is how I digested it I've missed a really important letter because of you right so that's where we were coming from totally different so I was like what do you mean I've already got a system in place for the letters and and it just and then it escalated from letters to laundry to who takes the bins out to who's got more of the mental load who's taking on more of the financial burden and before I knew it I'd taken myself off to the spare room and I was like yeah over post so yeah that I found it really really fascinating and I think actually I think we can spend our time as couples going through the motions on our own tracks just chugging forward but actually we need to come together and really discuss all those micro bits of resentment more often just That's what you're saying, George.

12:33The fact that you're turning around to James and going, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. It's just not the right way to be married, I don't think. No, I know. It's hard though, isn't it? Because I sit like in a really... I would be the same, by the way, with the post situation. I would be exactly the same as you. That would get my back up massively because I'd think, well, do your own fucking post. It's what I would think.

13:00But I would. I just think, fuck you, like, no, do your own pose, then you wouldn't miss a letter. But, I know, but that's not what he meant, so that's really interesting. No, I know, I know, but that's what I'm saying. I did take it that way, yeah, but that's, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would be exactly the same, I would be the same, but I sit in this thing of, like, life's too short, don't sweat the small, yeah, like, don't sweat the small stuff, like, let it happen let it be it's not that you know it's not that important and on some day I can do that like I can definitely do that I can let things go I can you know like just just let let things happen because I think we can get so like sort of into the detail of everything and then you can ruin your marriage you can ruin your whole life worrying about things that like you know not flushing the toilet like all these little tiny things so you can let that happen so then I sit with that and I'm like no like you just gotta um you've just you know you've just gotta get past these things and just like accept that it's it's a part of life and everyone has flaws and all of that so I can sit on that side and on Sundays I'm very much like that and then on the other days I'm not so it's like I I don't know I don't know how the best I don't know what the best way to go is because I don't want to waste my time talking about the small things I don't want like you know what I mean it's a fascinating topic and I I I don't know either and I also but what I do find really interesting because what you just tapped into there is something that I very much felt in that moment and something that he raised with me afterwards was sometimes when I speak to you about the menial tasks, it taps in and offends your feminist side.

14:54And I was like, don't be so ridiculous. Of course it doesn't. And on reflection, later on, I thought, gosh, is that how I truly feel? Like, do I truly feel that? I love doing, you know, I've gotten really into my cooking. I know, shock, Cora. I love making a home. But do I actually feel offended? with that actually it's not my job to do it but actually he just needs help so I don't know this was all going back and forth round around in my head and I definitely didn't handle the argument right and I have spent a long time since then thinking how can I handle it better because actually had he just come in and said what can we do to put a better post you know situation in place I could have gone yeah let me help you with that I can but I didn't I just went bang it was weird Yeah.

15:41Do you know what? I think you've got something there in that, is it like, you're right, like a feminist or not even a feminist feeling. It's like this feeling of like, now all of our jobs, you know, there are no like set jobs for anyone now at all. like in a relationship there are no set jobs like you know we'd laugh about blue jobs pink jobs I put the bins out sometimes you know it's not like that in today's world it just isn't I was actually talking to a friend about this um just before we went away so she's always worked um she's always had a career and there is a potential that her and her husband might be moving abroad with their kids and she was saying do you know what I'm actually quite looking forward to not working and trying something else like being at home and doing all this stuff at home and I was like yeah like I'm not like yeah like you've never done that before have you like I've had periods where I've in fact before kids I'd moved with James and not worked so I've had that like I've done that like I've been that person at home and she's like god I'm really looking forward to it and we were having this conversation and start and her husband like with the husbands as well and they we were basically all feeling the same that like we didn't really know where our place is anymore like with each other like in in society like as in you know women are like you know we work just as much as men do like we bring in like in lots of homes bring just as much as men do like all of that kind of stuff but then there's this like internal tussle of wanting to be like Like, you know, maybe like our parents or our grandparents and how they had ran their lives as well.

17:25And then also that we've got husbands or men in our lives who don't really know where they sit either because they're like, oh, well, you know, I want to provide because that's what my dad did. But you don't want me to, you don't want me to or you won't let me. It's so, it's actually really confusing. And we were like, God, would it be easier if we like, when we got married, we just set out some rules like at the beginning. And you know, like. 100%. And I'm sure, I think in some religions you have marriage lessons, don't you? I'm sure my friend who's a Catholic, they had to go to... Marriage lessons?

17:59Yeah, they had to go to... Well, I'd be a good wife. Well, no, but I think it's about how to get past conflict and all of that kind of stuff. I'm sure it's more modern now than it was years ago. But the premise of it, I was like, do you know what? That's probably a really good idea. like you get somebody who's like not involved in your relationship who's just there to talk like I don't know like NCT that sort of thing but for marriage before it happens like that would be really useful wouldn't it to before it gets to have like absolutely all these things yeah absolutely we'll be right back after this short break

18:42Back to school is busy enough. The last thing you need is shopping that makes it harder. Whether you're moving into a dorm, your first apartment, or just getting organized for the semester, Wayfair makes it easy to get everything you need in one place. Furniture, bedding, storage, decor, study essentials, all at prices you'll love with fast shipping before move-in day. Get everything you need for back-to-school season. Shop Wayfair.com today. I'm Jake Stouck, co-founder and CEO of Serval. We built Serval to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding, password resets, access to applications, my laptop stopped working.

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21:13Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? I don't know if you feel like this, but sometimes when I walk around the house and I walk into the bathroom and the kids' clothes are on the floor yet again, or there's a wet towel, or, you know, someone's done a poo in the loo and not flushed it and I think this is fucking shit I do not yeah me keep picking up crap off the floor how many more years do I have to pick crap off the floor and then I say to myself well the minute that stops happening the kids won't be here and then that will make me sad so I also think I'm having an internal tussle at the moment of like um I don't there's parts of it that I'm not really enjoying but I know I've got to do it but I'm really tired of doing it and it feels I feel like I'm battling inside I'm wondering also how people listening to this feel about finances because I think when the balance if you're used to having a balanced household in terms of who brings in what or you've always had the same status quo i.e maybe one of you works and the other one doesn't then you might not feel up tipped but when one starts earning more than the other one I think that makes me feel a bit unsteady because then I'm like yeah I have a problem with it what can you help me out be the um I'm chair psychologist no but I think this is that whole thing of like do you think it's like human nature that you kind of find your place and then you're happy with it and then when it gets tipped up whatever that is whether that's to finances whether that's to do the home whatever it is you have your thing and then when it isn't your thing anymore it feels uncomfortable I don't know because go on explain that well just like if you're you know like you could say for instance you're used to always being pretty equal in the like how much comes into the house like you both bring in similar amounts that in a way gives you I guess like a bit of power is it a bit of power I don't know but it that's how you've that's a feeling with safety yeah safety that's your norm that's how you feel yeah and then when that's up tipped obviously it might not feel right like I don't know I feel like that could be human nature in that we don't like the change yeah I think I think also I me personally and I don't know for anybody else but I think that I've never really been that comfortable with somebody paying for me so like George's business is doing so well and I'm so proud of him like he's absolutely smashing it at the same time what comes with that is a feeling of like do I feel he never makes me feel like this by the way ever this is all my stuff so I just want to point that out do I now feel not equal because of the finances being slightly different why is that something that I'm feeling and maybe I need to really go and have a look at what that is because it is it is a thing for me and it shouldn't be because we're in a marriage and we've got three children and it's fine if one person it ebbs and flows ups and downs highs and lows but there's definitely something in that mechanic where I'm like gosh I've never had somebody pay for stuff for me and I you know I tend to do it by myself and it's just a fun it's a funny one it doesn't make me feel secure it doesn't make you feel secure do you know that's what it is it's a safety thing relying on somebody else yeah yeah do you know what this is I've actually not thought about this but until now so I'm not an anxious person am i no you don't know me as an anxious person no way right i'm not i'm generally hand on heart not an anxious person when i lived in glasgow with james and i didn't work so i relied on him right i was so anxious like i think about this now when you've just said that i used to have so he'd be on his way home from like an away game and i'd convince myself that the coach had crashed wow and I used to like we're messaging friends like oh well haven't heard from him for an hour he's dead like that's that's oh my god like obviously I'm exaggerating now but like that's that is like the the thought process that I used to have and I don't know when that stopped or when that changed or whatever but I don't feel like that now but I wonder you saying that you don't feel safe now I wonder if that was that was me then like I didn't feel safe because if anything happened to him I you know I couldn't yeah I couldn't fend for myself like and it's so it's more like yeah exactly and you had to solely rely on on James to to support you both but you have also always had a joint bank account can we say that on the podcast you want me to share that or not yeah of course i don't mind yeah no i think we've spoken about that before yeah right yeah yeah so you've always had one pot and it's been your money together yeah so when one wins we both win do you know what i mean so like when one's doing well we're both doing well yeah yeah yeah yeah i don't know that's a weird one that's you guys don't do you Yeah, that's another really interesting point.

26:30No, we don't have one. And so I don't know what that's like. And that's fine because, well, I don't know. I don't know. Is it fine? I'd love to find out what people listed. I'd love you guys to send us a DM and just let us know. Do you have joint bank accounts or is Georgia the odd one out or am I? Yeah. I mean, yeah. But to be fair, like if I think about my friendship group, I'm the odd one out. Definitely. So as in they've all got separate bank accounts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to think of people that have joined. I mean, I do know a few, but say if I picked 10 people that I know they're set up, I would be the odd one out.

27:13Definitely. But then I don't know if that's... We've known each other since we were so young, and we moved in together when we were 20 or 21. and it was so like we were so just like his his well his earnings were so much higher than mine that there would have been no way that I would have been able to contribute do you know what I mean so there wasn't there wouldn't have been a question of like oh you know let's go halves on the rent because I wouldn't have been able to so and yeah so I I wonder if we'd have met later on if that would have been the case. Had it been different. I don't know. Had it been different.

27:55Yeah, I don't know. It's really interesting to think about your love languages and what you prioritise as important. And I did this love language. You can tell where I've been this weekend, by the way, guys. Not drinking, doing a bloody love language test. But I did this love language test. I really want Doz to do it as well. And what came out was that all of the majority, I think it was like 58%, for me, is the physical touch. for that's my love language so like it's not being being bought gifts not acts of service it's not yeah service it's it's affection that's where I get my love from and and when we sort of got into this conversation about um how he how he feels about providing he was like well my the way that I care is by financially contributing and never letting you guys down in that area and that was so interesting because I was like it doesn't matter and it was like no no of course it matters of course it matters I just never saw it like that because my love language is different to his yeah yeah yeah it's interesting yeah it is so interesting I think it's important as well to talk about how people show love and affection I was actually talking to Axel about this and I was saying that people show love in different ways that he's got he's got a friend doesn't really like being hugged right probably similar to me um and Axel like Axel's the hugger like he's like comes us and like hugs this boy and he's always like I don't get it why does he not like being hugged and I was explaining to him like oh you know people like show love in different ways like when I first met James he wasn't very affectionate for sure he's definitely more affectionate now um and he wasn't um I don't know his thing wasn't like doing things for other people it would be like buying something for someone or you know but now like for me it's the small things it's making me a cup of tea when I haven't asked it's you know those things are like important to me um and I was explaining this to Axel and I said oh like what do you think your love languages and I was saying like you know words of affirmation that's where people like say really nice things about you buy new gifts and he was like oh no I like all of them I love that boy so much he wants all of it he wants the gift he wants the affirmation he wants yeah he wants the affection yeah and I was like oh right great but it did make me think I do wonder do you think your love language stems from how you're brought up or do you think it's in you yeah it's a hundred percent for me how I've been brought up that that is yeah that is what I saw but I also saw like a very stoic father who worked his absolute arse off to provide for us so that's where the sort of grafting side comes from it but yeah I think you're right I think it's it makes total sense and actually I'm going to put the test up on our Instagram so that everybody can do it as well because it made suddenly and I know it sounds really stupid my friend Henry told me to take it suddenly I thought wow in those moments we are speaking completely different languages yeah yeah because what's important to one person and they think they're doing something for you you don't like necessarily see it in the same way that's so it's actually that's really true for instance me being pissed off like today like the washing isn't done and like all of that kind of stuff that because that's that thing for me of like acts of service acts of service like that's that thing of not like doing something without having to ask like that is important to me like those small things they're important yeah I'm totally with you but he will see it as oh well you know i did this i did that i bought this i came out i you know i all of these other things i was working really hard and i'm just like yes but it's not none of those we scrapped all of those off the list james none of those matter at all you didn't do the bloody washing you didn't empty the dishwasher and that is the love language when you say it's so stupid no well this is the point this is what i wanted to discuss today because it comes back around to something really small like the post yeah you know he may not have come upstairs and like wrapped his arms around me and told me that he loved me to the ends of the earth until my dying day and written me a fucking enid blight novel novel but he did what he thought in his mind was his service to me so it's just it was just a very interesting circle that i've been on this weekend yeah yeah and i think it does take talking it through as well actually he's probably helped james you you bringing this up He's usually paid me for this conversation.

32:25I see. I just wonder if he dropped you a message. I'm thinking, where is this coming from? Oh, yeah. And also, George, if you do want to bring it up with him, there's a way of saying it and there's a time and a place. What, no, you're useless. That's not the right thing to say. No, that's not what we're saying. Listen, to you guys listening today, thank you so much. As always, we'd love you to rate, review, subscribe and please give our podcast a follow. Yeah, and if you've got any feedback on this episode or guests you'd like to hear from. We have got so many exciting guests in the pipeline as well.

32:56We can't wait for you to hear them. And we'll be back on Friday.

33:11Back to school is busy enough. The last thing you need is shopping that makes it harder. Whether you're moving into a dorm, your first apartment, or just getting organised for the semester, Wayfair makes it easy to get everything you need in one place. Furniture, bedding, storage, decor, study essentials, all at prices you'll love. With fast shipping before move-in day. Get everything you need for back-to-school season. Shop Wayfair.com today. I'm Jake Stouck, co-founder and CEO of Serval. We built Serval to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding, password resets, access to applications, my laptop stopped working.

33:52While employees wait for help, their real work is put on hold. IT desperately wants to automate this work, and that's why they need Serval. You just tell Serval what you want to automate in plain English, and it's built. No drag-and-drop workflows, no expensive consultants. Employees get unblocked, and IT teams go from drowning in tickets to building what actually matters. With Serval, IT becomes the AI engine powering the entire company. This is a new way to run IT. We guarantee you'll automate 50 % of all tickets and we'll prove it to you in a free four-week pilot. Go to serval.com slash tickets.

34:31That's S-E-R-V-A-L dot com slash tickets.

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