Zoe & Georgia on Doing Motherhood Their Way

0:00Hello and welcome to Made by Mum as the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review.

0:32You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hi. Hello. This is nice, isn't it? This is nice. This is going to be a big catch up for us. Our first solo podcast of the year. Yeah. We like to do these like every now and again, maybe every four to six weeks because, you know, sometimes with a guest, we don't get to talk about what we've been up to. How are you? I'm all right. I'm good. I'm, yeah, I don't know. I really enjoyed having a break at Christmas, and I think it really has made January feel quite nice. Is it New Year, New You?

1:10No, not New Year, New You, but I definitely don't feel as stressed out as you can do when it's January. I'm taking the pressure off a bit. Lots of people hate January, and I see it as a proper reset for the year. I wish that every month, not the darkness, but I love the fact that you can really kind of knuckle down and get cosy. And you don't, there's no pressure to go out because lots of people are doing dry jan. Lots of people don't really want to meet up. Everyone's kind of having a big pause. Yeah. And I feel like everyone's sort of in that sort of sorting out phase. Like whether they're like sorting out their house or they're sorting out holidays for the year or they're sort, you know, everyone's sort of in a bit of a planning-y kind of, I don't know.

1:58I like it. I like it too. I don't mind January. I don't either. I don't really like the darkness, but quite like it. Yeah. But then I think is it probably like not even 30 days from now, it's light at seven o 'clock again. Oh, no, because we've had the longest day of the year. That's all done. So it's on the up. We're on the up, guys. Longest or shortest, sorry. Shortest day of the year. Shortest day of the year. Yeah, exactly. My Christmas tree's still up. Is there? Oh, my God. I always think about you when you're away. So what do you do? When is that going? It was supposed to go a week ago. It just hasn't.

2:31It's just so droopy that we don't want to touch it because we've got a real one. If we move it, the whole house will be covered in pine needles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's still sitting. I've taken all the decks off it, but it's still sitting in the corner of the room. Every night, me and Doz just look at it and go, should really move that today. And then it hasn't happened yet. Yeah. I'm thinking maybe we'll keep it up for a bit. Just purely because we can't be fucking asked. Well, does Murphy cock his leg up? No, not his, her. She does, that's not how female dogs we do. No, it's not, they don't.

3:04Well, puppies don't either, do they? They don't actually cock their legs yet. Does he not do that? No. No, no, not yet, which I forget. Yeah, they do that weird little squat thing. People keep, there's a bit of a movement for like Halloween trees, and then those trees are covered in sheets. Oh. So they're Christmas trees covered in sheets, and then you can decorate them with like spooky stuff. Then you take the sheet off and then you've got your Christmas tree. So I'm thinking it could be an Easter tree. Dead Easter tree. A really dead Easter tree. No, it's got to come down. It's coming down this weekend.

3:37It's coming down this weekend. But there's a part of me that's just entered this year feeling like I'm not going to get so hyped up and strung up on things that don't really matter that much. Yes. This whole like everything has to be looking perfect and suitcases need to be unpacked the minute you get back and all the washing needs to be and all this kind of stuff. I don't want to get I was really anxious last year yeah there were parts of it where I was having such bad like anxiety attacks that my heart was raised you know that that podcast we did towards the back in the year I had to leave yeah because I felt so unwell yeah and that was through stress yeah and I think that we a lot of us can get so caught up on like all those small like daily niggles and then they build and build and build I'm exactly the same I'm trying not to be like that um but I have learned about myself that you know like I always say like oh I never like just lay down and watch tv I don't like it but I don't like it so why am I trying to force myself to do it I still don't understand what you're doing in the evenings though so well I will I don't know I'll tidy the kitchen I rearrange the spice cupboard I write down recipes I I just don't enjoy laying down You write down recipes?

4:52Yeah. Like with a pen and paper? Yeah, like recipes like I might do. Who are you? Yesterday I made wraps from scratch, put them in the freezer. Not that hard, but yeah, go on. I made 50, no, wraps from scratch. So I rolled them all out. This is what I mean. So I just even think, I didn't mean wraps. I bought them from the supermarket. I put them in the freezer. I made 50 pancakes. I made pesto. I made sourdough bread. I made chicken stock oh homemade chicken nuggets what? but that is relaxing to me hold on right just stop talking for a second you made see when you first started showing off about that you thought I just bought some wraps and then I'm sorry I can make a wrap but you actually made wraps yeah because in the wraps you buy in the supermarket if you look at the ingredients which I don't don't don't do it because it's horrific and all that is in the wrap Yeah, probably worse.

5:52Mark's nodding his head. It is, it's so bad. And all that is actually in wraps is flour, water and olive oil. I can make wraps. There we go, exactly. But what I'm saying is I find that relaxing. So when James is like, oh, can you sit down? I think, no, no, I can't. And I'm not going to. Now, I understand this in principle, but unless you're making a cookery show what is the point of doing all of that like what's that going to do for you for your life well because then I can feed everyone but feeding takes like 20 minutes and it goes in the air fryer you press beep and then it turns on and 20 minutes later everyone's got chicken nuggets and chips no George I love that for you and I'm not I really am teasing you but if that's how you get your enjoyment I don't relax laying on the sofa like ever well no like sometimes yeah well I want to but sometimes I don't feel like that what about reading a book no I read my first book in a year did you yeah what did you read Matt Haig's new book oh yeah life impossible I finished it it's wonderful anybody looking for a new read you should definitely definitely definitely read it it's just this beautiful um it's a beautiful story about how nature your favorite universe and humans are connected how that actually we're aliens on this planet and we're invading it and we're ruining it and how fucking dare us because actually nature and animals have been around so much longer than us we need to pull our necks in don't let quincy hear that how dare we so no reading of books but cooking gives you pleasure and what about so you wouldn't sit down and watch a new series no ever no i would like sometimes but i'm just not no you're not the chill you're not the chill I love having a bath okay like you don't like those things but I just I've been trying to force like thinking oh let's get the kids in bed so we can lay on the sofa and then I just think what time are you going to bed these days well because of the puppy we were going to bed later annoying is now we're not again it's fine but for a few weeks you have to stay up later and that is really annoying that's do you know what that's really interesting that you say that because that's the only thing getting Murphy's been the best thing that we did last year but the fact that we have to stay up until 10 o 'clock was really, really killing me.

8:15Same. I think it ruined the end of our year because we'd be like, oh my God, what are we going to do? Oh my God, you know, half nine. How are we going to stay awake? Yeah. That does change because now we can put her in her crate at nine. Is that what you do now? And she sleeps straight through until six o 'clock. Yeah, which is fine. Yeah, I don't like going to bed late. We're both in agreement on that. We're both early birds. But how are the kids? What's going on? So, well... I know these already and that's what I'm feeding because it's so funny. So obviously we went away for Christmas, had loads of time with them, felt really bonded and connected to them.

8:54But one thing that I noticed was that this time last year someone taught Kit how to flick the bird. Yeah. And his favourite thing to do in the entire world is to, behind someone's back, just to go fuck you. He doesn't say fuck you, but the finger. Yeah. so I had to do like a lot of talking to him this time last year being like that's not appropriate you can't flick the bird at like someone in a van driving past like I was noticing I was looking at the back window and he was saying fuck you to like a cyclist anyway so this Christmas we're away and the bird is coming out a lot and I'm like it's funny but obviously can we just rein it in a little bit yeah and they've both got iPads and they were allowed a little bit of iPad time and they've got iMessage.

9:33They were iMessaging. Luna and Kit were iMessaging each other on holiday through the wifi. Anyway, Kit doesn't realize that his iMessage is hooked up to my phone. So I was going to read you a snippet of what I found on the last day. Right, here we go. I'm really sorry. I'm going to swear if you're listening to this with your kids around, maybe turn it down. This one was all right. You stink like a dog in a puddle and a baby in the bed with you and your bum hole. Then we had bitch that came afterwards. That's from Luna, right? Then Kit says, shut the fuck up. Luna replies, you called me and I tell you to come over here and get your ass kicked.

10:19Kit puts, you have a fat ass and fuck you. He wrote and fuck you. get your ass up in here now you fucker look I'm laughing the funniest thing right about Liz is that would they say that to be driver's face no way

10:45I just put guys stop sorry mummy and then listen to this oh no wait oh no you need this I've got to play you the voice note right this is the voice note that I right ready Shut up you little dick face You are nothing You'll never be anything Shut up Shut up you little dick face You'll never be anything Who are these children? It's like I'm living with a couple of They're going to get Asbos I don't understand sibling dynamic But I think that might be it Right, so then I get really cross and then this comes in. I'm sorry, mummy. I'm really sorry. I shouldn't have said that. I'm sorry. Sorry, mummy.

11:35I went mental. Did you? Yeah, I really did. Like, banned pocket money. Pocket money was gone. Took the iPads away. Like, they were both in floods of tears. Because I know it's funny, but also I had no idea that that was the language. I don't find it that funny, I'm going to be honest. We're laughing about it now. but at the time I just thought no no no I know I would feel the same I'd feel the same as you because you're quite shocking it's quite shocking yeah yeah it is shut the fuck up yeah then I was thinking god are they hearing me talk because that's potty mouth harping over here wow do you know if your kids speak to each other like that I don't know I don't know because we were talking about this before like how like that will come in right the whole messaging thing comes in what age does that come in don't know right I don't know when you do it but is it better to do it now with your brother and sister and you say all these things to each other then getting that access to a messaging when you're like I don't know 12 13 and you do it to people at school that's the point you don't know I don't know yeah I don't know do you get it out of your system I don't know do you get it out of your system I mean mine definitely fight and like argue and yeah wind each other up and that's very annoying but they can't message each other so maybe they would say that to each other I don't know well I think that was the thing that made me drop my jaw to the floor because I genuinely thought that they would be like hey kit let's sneak up and you know watch the ipads not shut up you birch it was funny that they couldn't spell bitch right but I but I have had to have a serious conversation with them about it because I don't want them like you said you know when they get to a point where they've got phones imagine if if that's how they're speaking to their mates or if that is the type of language that's coming back or is that the sort of language that's going on at school oh my god I don't I don't know I had a conversation with my sister-in-law in the summer and she I was shocked by the kids swearing at us right at grown-ups I can't get my head yeah I can't either but and I said oh god I wouldn't even ever swear like to my my mom and dad now right I would never say like fuck you to mom and dad definitely not wait and she said to me I needed to get in the real world right and she is a teacher okay so I was like like no shut up but now I think oh maybe that maybe I don't know maybe that is what they say I'm not saying it's all right because I don't like it you're just saying maybe that's common practice maybe I don't like I'm not sure like anyone listening to this let us know because it is quite shocking like for parents I'm sorry it doesn't matter if it's common practice or not I think you and I sit aligned on this yeah don't like it I don't want I I I it it became very apparent very quickly how addictive doing this yeah giving the bird was and how actually the swearing like I could I could hear it and I was thinking we don't swear in front of the kids I would never swear at the kids yeah it's not like I'm you know saying all the sort of profanities that I say on this podcast in front of them ever so where are they getting it from and then it goes back to your point is that the fact is that is that how they speak to each other I would be mortified if I got a call from school because for me it means so much more than just picking up bad words it's so much more loaded than that and i want them to grow up to be respectful but as i posted on our instagram last night that it's coming left right and center the birdie but i mean literally i might as well just call the detention center now and get them both locked up or they're getting out of the system now and then it won't be a big deal right when they get older they'll be like bored of the f word and i don't know we'll be right back after this short break

15:15Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? Let's talk about the Explorer watches. Yes. Okay, so I wanted to get your opinion on this. We got the kids. I wouldn't have got Kit an Explorer watch had it not been for Luna. Right. If you don't know what an Explorer watch is, they're like a smart watch, essentially. Right. It's all done through the app, so I can see who his contacts are and I have to put them in. Essentially, it's just got me and Doz, but he can phone someone off it. Luna can message. they weren't supposed to take him to school. I've just got a call from him now.

15:47Oh, yeah, that was funny. He's in the bloody playground. What, phoning you? Yeah, calling me. Hi, mummy. Yeah, just chatting to my mum. I'm like, why have you got your watch at school? So he snuck it into his bag. What are your thoughts on these Explorer watches or anything like that? Well, so it's interesting because I was talking to a friend about it at the weekend. She was literally voice noting me. We voice note back and forth all the time because we live in different places. She lives in Singapore, so like the time difference we can't catch up on the phone she was saying to me like she's just voice she's like I'm just coming out the station oh hang on a minute I've got to go I've just seen this little girl she looks lost right so she goes anyway so it was a young girl couldn't find her parents I think she's like seven or something like that um crying you know couldn't you know barely like lost and so Katie my friend found like a security guard like was talking to them trying to help her find her mum.

16:41In the end, she's left her with two security guards and a female chaperone was coming down or something. So she's like, right, okay, there's nothing I can do now. I'm leaving. So she's telling me the story. Then she spots the mum and she goes over. Was the mum distressed? Yeah, the mum was distressed looking around. They were on a completely different floor in the station. Oh my gosh. And she went up to the mum and said, are you looking for your daughter? And she said, yeah, I don't know where she is. Oh, she's just phoning me. Right. And then the daughter was phoning the mum. And Katie said to me, oh, it's just made me realize our kids really need to know our phone numbers.

17:19Oh, such an interesting point. Yeah. And so I've always had this thing. And, you know, if you've listened to the podcast about when do you give a child a phone and like all the negatives to do with having like a messaging or contact device. But maybe this is what I was thinking. maybe I do need to get something where they can contact us and not for you know any other reason other than if they get lost like what a good like if I if hit you know that little girl had an explorer watch on yeah that wouldn't have happened right because it and I think it was a good half an hour um but yeah I think kids need to know parents phone numbers for sure 100 % but also like these devices are not all bad like we're looking at technology in such a bad way like oh gosh what but that really helps in those scenarios so I'm up for hearing because you you know obviously you've said that you got the kids one oh yeah I'm now thinking I want to get something because do you do it like if you go into town like especially if you go to like our local high street Axel wanders off like it's it's a funny age isn't it now where you're on the cusp of independence but not quite.

18:31Yeah, so I think it's slightly different because we've obviously got Isla and she's got a phone. So we for example, yesterday we went out for a walk. Only Luna wanted to come on the walk with Murphy. Kit and Isla were exhausted and Kit could phone me from his watch on the sofa being like, how long are you going to be left on your walk? And there was a comfort because Isla had fallen asleep and he was like, I'm a bit lonely and we were like, we're going to be 20 minutes, we'll be back. So I felt comforting. Yeah. Sorry. I felt comfort knowing that he had something to get in touch with. But I don't let Luna and Kit really go off by themselves yet.

19:03So I think Axel's maybe slightly more independent. Plus he's a boy. So there's that element of kind of adventure, which might be sort of peaking slightly. We're at a stage now where if I drop him to football training, it's dark, pitch black dark. He does not want me getting out of the car. I'm walking him over to the pitches. You can't see where you're going. Yes. I mean, of course. But it is that whole like, I don't know. he's quite grown up I've said it before he's always been very grown up and so he is really pushing for that like those bits of independence and it's the you know that whole safety part that you're like yeah yeah absolutely but maybe yeah like a like an explorer watch or I don't know that they've been so good so far also we were running every day in Kenya and they were doing they've got you they've got a step counter on them they've got the weather app they've got various other different things, but it's not like a phone.

19:56It's not, it feels one step up, a little bit more independence, a bit more, you know, being a bit of a grown up, but actually they're still seven and nine. So I just want to keep them. And actually they're not supposed to have their watches at school. So sorry to the teachers. But yeah, you should think about it. Yeah, I think I will. I'm definitely going to look at some, we've got to do something. I mean, God, Axel's going to be in year six. He's going to be 10 this year. Wow, that's so weird. How have we got 10 year olds, Lily? I don't know. Oh God. We're not old enough. Does that mean we're getting old?

20:24Yeah. When are you 40? It's next year. No. I'm only 36. Don't say it like that. I cannot believe you're only 36. Yeah, correct. I've still got a while to go. Can we go away for your 37th birthday and pretend that... Do you know what? We actually didn't do anything for my 30th because I was having Gigi. I really missed out on that. Where do you want to go? I don't know. It may be. Let's see. Do you know what I wanted to talk to you about? So I've, you know, I've been into trying to get the kids to talk about feelings and all of that kind of thing. Oh, yeah. How's that going? Axel's been, you know, seeing his positive psychology coach for ages.

21:02My friend for Christmas bought them journals, right? She's into journaling, which I do rip her for, but I know that some people like it. But anyway, so my kids are like, oh, in fact, no, Gigi had one first. And then Axel said he wanted one. So I ordered him one on Amazon. They're really cute. it's like a daily thing how did you feel today oh wow that's nice what you know what did you enjoy um I don't know what made you laugh I mean the funniest thing is comparing them at the end of the day it's like you know actually like what are you proud of and he's like oh that I scored this on my atom learning and Gigi's like boy's chasing me and I'm like she's a girl after my own heart there we go like the difference but what I've really noticed and this is a word of warning kids knowing how to name their feelings is really annoying okay because you can be driving and go down a pothole and then you hear mum that made me feel really unsafe oh god shut up and you're like no no that no sorry or um i need to talk to you about something i'm like right yeah of course You know, this morning I really wanted pancakes.

22:15And I'm like, yeah. And you didn't let me have them. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. Well, that made me feel very upset. Wow. And I'm like, oh, God, this is majorly backfired. So now where am I supposed to go from here? It's like an episode of Jeremy Carr in your house. Yeah, if someone can let me know because this is a lot now. So I think at that point you need to go, thank you so much for naming your feelings. I don't want to know. I don't want to know. Get your shoes on. We'll go back to not talking. That would be so much better. I mean, there's some positives and negatives to take from that, that maybe potholes and pancakes aren't the way to get the emotions out.

22:56And they say that we're bringing up snowflakes, and I absolutely agree. Literally, George, you're creating the problem. Yeah. Yeah. How's your naming of emotions going? Well, I'm not doing it because I realise how fucking annoying it is. I'm sorry. No. Just big no. We have to talk about the fact that you've got James. Judgey James was on the podcast. He was. He was on the podcast. Well, how was that doing that with him? Fine. He got really emotional. What? He actually cried at the end of the podcast. I'm not even joking. He fully did cry. It was all very jokey. On the camera. On the camera. I haven't seen, I haven't listened to the last 10 minutes.

23:34Very jokey. Like, you know, lighthearted. And then someone sent in a question, something like, what? part of parenting do you find the most hard? Like something like that. He got really emotional and said, oh, you know, now it's not about them. It's about me. I just want them to like me. And hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. James said, it's not about them. It's about me. Yeah. It's not, that's not what parenting is. He meant like he doesn't find them hard. Oh, he finds the hardest bit him navigating his emotions. He should get a journal. Oh, God. Imagine that. I'm sorry. George, when you don't sit down and watch a movie with me and make people really sad.

24:15No, we're going to go, like, no. This whole mindfulness thing, like, I get it, but, you know, it's gone too far. But you guys are good, right? Yeah, we're really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's quite boring now. I don't have loads to slate him for, which is really difficult. What was brilliant was that he said that he wasn't, I'm not really that judgmental. Oh, don't. And then it was judging people. When kids stay in their uniform after school. White socks. White socks. You don't put lids back on properly. Oh my God. But I showed him that clip and he literally went up and then named five million other things he could have said.

24:48And he's like, I forgot to say that. Oh, and I also forgot to say this. And what about when people went night and added us together? Oh my God, I can't correct that. I thought, wow, okay. So yeah, no, it was fun. It was fun. But you know, anyone listening will know how different we are. Oh my gosh, so different. But what a joy that is. What was great is that you just sort of sat there and you're like, oh yeah I remember that yeah oh yeah yeah but you love each other next no way man absolutely not sometimes when Doz is really pissed off with me he uses this podcast to throw it back in my face does he he'll go like probably make a podcast out of that fucking topic won't you and I'm like yes I will and you don't know because you don't listen yeah you don't listen yeah he sometimes gets cross about it and he doesn't even know what we talk about imagine if he actually listened yeah Yeah, we don't want to let him in, to be fair.

25:38I mean. No. James doesn't listen. Definitely not. No, Dils is not coming on the podcast. No. I think it's safe to say that I've just dragged him through three weeks of being with his in-laws. Oh, yeah. And by the end of it, he literally, I mean, it looked like he was like a broken man. Really? Well, he just didn't speak towards the end of it. Right. So it was quite interesting. Well, he did point out to me on various occasions that it was unrealistic and most people would not get their partners to spend three weeks with their mother-in-law. It is a long time. And I'm like, poor you, you're in paradise.

26:10But I do understand it. And actually, I probably didn't put any emphasis or like feeling around that before. But at one point I did look at him and he was at the end of the breakfast table and he was like staring into space. And I was thinking, oh, my God, they've broken him. He's not talking. What sort of relationship does he have? Is he like on his best behavior around them? Are you joking? Have you met Dawes? No, I mean, that's what I'm saying. Why does he find it difficult? Does he find it difficult just? A lot of what my mum says he finds really challenging. Right, okay. Because she's quite a character.

26:42Yeah. And she does come out with, I mean, for example, this is an example of my mum. And obviously I love my mum dearly. Those of you that have listened to the podcast for a while, it's been an up and down relationship, but we are in a really good place. She won't mind me saying this because I've called her out on it as well. So she'll say something like, oh, you know, those friends that live down the beach. And I go, all right, which ones? And she goes, let's call him Mike. You know, Mike, the one with the tick. And I go, oh, I don't think I know. She goes, oh, his tick really annoys me. And I go, what, this poor man who's got a tick from anxiety or something else, and it annoys you.

27:22And you can see Dozza with like beads of sweat. just like and he's like I'm like kicking him under the head don't send me and that's just who she and then I go where are you going tonight for New Year's Eve and she goes oh we're going to Mike and Sally's I go but you don't like Mike you just slated him for half an hour so there's bits of that that come in which I know he just gets up and walks away he plays with the kids and I sort of deal with it but I think next year we're definitely going to break up the trip oh yeah you said we're going to do somewhere else first because actually does anyone really you want to spend three weeks with their mother-in-law?

27:57I'm just trying to, you picturing spending it with your mother-in-law. Yeah, well, look at two weeks in Disney. That ended up.

28:06We're still, in fact, we've just about squashed the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all sorted. Yeah, all sorted. Okay, good. James went to meet his sister to sort everything out. They met in a mutual space. And after three hours. Three hours? Well, I hadn't heard from him for three hours. I genuinely thought, right, they've either been detained by security. Right. Or she's killed him. Either way. I wasn't sure which way it was going to go. But actually, no, they were adults, talked about things. I mean, how revolutionary. That's amazing. Yeah. And that's it, isn't it? He said to me, because actually it was a bit of a learning curve for me.

28:50He was like, I don't understand why you want it to look perfect all the time. But that's you. yeah and you can't always and he said the fact that we've had some really lovely family moments that we've shared a safari that we've you know we've got on in parts and there wasn't any rows it wasn't anything like that that's good enough so yeah and I thought actually it is like it doesn't have to be like the sound of music yeah it can just be so true you know some eye rolling and a bit of light conversation and then everyone just says goodbye for the day that's fine yeah that's okay yeah and also adults in a you know a closed environment for a long time I think that's always difficult oh my god especially with mike and his tics poor mike oh my god um thank you so much for listening to today's podcast as always we'd love you to rate review subscribe and please give our podcast a follow yeah and if you've got any feedback on this episode or topics you'd like us to cover drop us a dm on instagram we're on at made by mommas and we'll be back on friday