How Piggybacking on Big Brands Drives Sales + Is Liquid Death’s Hype Killing Its Brand?

0:00Dude, did you end up seeing, what was it called? Mario Kart and is it Dalit Vietnam? No. Dude, I have a YouTube clip of it. It's on the list somewhere. I don't know if I end up putting... I don't think you put it there. Where is it? There you go. How tying your product or service to something well-known is a great way to get more success. Click on the link and share your screen. Yeah, let me share my screen. Okay, hold on, hold on. This is funny. Oh, I have seen this. Okay, I'm going to share my screen. Do I need the audio on or no audio? You could or no. It doesn't make a difference, but people can see.

0:35Okay, I'm going to share it. I'm going to turn the audio on too, guys. Okay, here we go.

0:42Thank you.

1:08okay so those that you get hurt like mario kart those of you that didn't see this basically it's like a real life mario kart where they're going down a track um and it looks it looks fun but it looks pretty dangerous so this is in vietnam right this is in vietnam and what's interesting on this is it's like if you do something that's tied to something that's really popular like mario kart you can do well and the reason i put this in here is yesterday i was eating dinner with my kids and my wife and kids made this chicken fajita wrap or something like that and i was like made it emma made it uh my kids and wife yeah emma michelle and i was like what the heck is this and they're like it's a peppa pig have you heard of peppa pig it's like yeah it's a peppa pig dinner and you know it comes two times a week to your house and you cook together and i'm like what does this have to do with peppa pig it's just fajitas but they tied it in to something that kids love or family loves and it becomes popular and then all of a sudden they're doing tons of revenue do you know how how many people got injured because this seems like a liability man so if you scroll up uh one of the first clips i saw everyone was getting injured some of them are on the side of the hill and i'm like uh watch your screen play that it's hilarious oh my god okay hold on hold on all right here we go here we go

2:37dude oh assignment

2:45Oh wow that's

2:52difficult

2:58of backlash dude oh oh oh oh yeah they're just getting hurt like but the the other thing too is when you when people share these clips they go viral because it's it's so funny dude the one on x that i saw i think it was of people getting hurt like 16 million views or something crazy like that by the way go okay we go back to hormosi for a second so the fact that he had the guinness world record and he had a six thousand dollar bundle so there's people that are praising him on one side and there's people giving away the books or giving away the code right but then you also spawn a ton of haters too because all of a sudden they're like people because he used to make in his videos like i have nothing to sell you right and then someone put like um alex fromozzi i have nothing to sell you and then alex fromozzi like a screenshot of a six thousand dollar bundle like also alex fromozzi right so um you're for sure you're gonna get hate and then you're gonna get people praising you and then you're gonna get people sharing the codes and so it has a viral effect to it and i I think he was pretty thoughtful about that too.

3:54He kind of knew what he was going to get. But yeah, anyway, but, and this is the same thing too. Like it's, it's exciting to share this. Like people like controversy, people like things that are, that are people like sharing things that make them look good too, in some way, shape or form, right? Whether it's funny or something like that. So yeah. Yeah. And you're always going to get hate. It doesn't matter what kind of business you're in. You could be open AI. He gets, Sam Altman gets hate from Elon Musk. Elon Musk gets hate from Sam Altman and they'll throw jabs at each other on X or whatever platform, right?

4:23But this is just normal. This is what happens in business. And it doesn't matter what kind of marketing campaigns you're doing. Some people are going to love you. Some people are going to hate you, but it actually causes your name and messaging to get out there even more. Dude, speaking of brand, let's talk about brand for a second. We just talked about Mario Kart. Mario Kart to me, Mario is a brand, right? But this is interesting because we can kind of, I can weave this in with Nintendo too. So do you know what type of company Nintendo was when it first started no but i know they ended up owning the seattle mariners they bought a baseball team okay but we're talking about the beginning so the beginning you know was they they were a trading card company so they were a long time like sure they started in gaming but a very long time ago they were a trading card company and they just continued to change over time right and they evolved their brand okay now liquid death which i believe um has sold 500 million or something like that so liquid death just so everyone doesn't know um that for people that don't know it's um It's like an edgy water brand.

5:20It's like a can of water basically, right? So Nick Shackelford. Let's go a little bit more in depth. It's a can of water that Eric is saying, but they have some cool graphics like liquid death. I don't know what they're messaging they're trying to convey. I've never drank a can. But it tastes just like any other water. The only difference is the marketing on how it's cool or crazy. Eric's showing an image right here as well of it. Yeah, so it's basically a character. The head is Liquid Death, and it's like a buff character with an axe, and then I guess the chest is like eyeballs. But it's like different marketing, right?

6:00And so here's the thing to what Neil said, liquid death. The idea came, came 2009, came from a warped tour. Okay. 2017 trademark filed 2019. They came out as the anti-water. And then 2020, they came out as sparkling water. Okay. So that's fine. Okay. It's still water, right? 2021 flavored water. Okay. 2022 hydration package. It's like, okay, well, they're, they're kind of expanding out a little more. And in 2023 energy drinks. Right. And so Nick Shackelford's argument is this is textbook dilution because when they're doing$100 million, there's like, we need to expand our TAM, right? And then$500 million, let's hire that CPG exec from Pepsi.

6:40So meanwhile, his argument is Red Bull, same product for 40 years, same message, same positioning,$11 billion in revenue. So Liquid Death had authenticity in a sea of sameness. They traded it for shelf space, which is also interesting because yesterday we have a mutual friend, Kat Cole, CEO of AG1. So they just came out with like, you know, they do like vitamin packets, right, basically. And you can put in your water. It's like green juice-ish, right? But they just came out with like a sleep packet or a sleep powder yesterday too. And so what is your take on this overall? My take overall is I think Liquid Debt's water market was big enough and they should have just stayed with water.

7:24That doesn't mean that the business would have made more money by just staying in water. Red Bull Energy Drink, you know, a lot of it is luck, timing, things that aren't as controllable. Liquid Debt is a little bit different because they're going into a very saturated market. When Red Bull came out with their Energy Drink, it wasn't a very saturated market or anything like that. was a much smaller market, of course. Water is a massive market. And the reason I would have just stuck with water, it was a great brand, great product. I get you can introduce sparkling water a little bit here and there, but I would have never expanded a water company into energy drinks.

8:02Again, I'm not saying my recommendation would have made them more money. I think my recommendation would have made them less money, but I think you would have had a company with a much more loyal following. Fast forward 10, 15 years if you just stuck with one product? You know, you look at, let's use Ferrari as an example. All they stuck with was just cars, amazing cars. You look at Nintendo, all they stuck with was gaming. Sure, they started with trading cards, but they stuck with gaming the whole time, okay? Just making fun games for people, okay? And you look at Red Bull. Yeah, all he stuck with was Red Bull.

8:34And, you know, you look at Steve Ballmer. Steve Ballmer stuck with Microsoft stock the whole time, right? And Microsoft has stuck with software, right? And so in a lot of these cases, if you kind of just stick with it and stay in your area, there's a lot to expand into. I think they're expanding into areas that maybe don't make as much sense with the original mission. So I think sparkling water is fine. I think hydration packets are probably fine too. But I think energy drinks, that's probably getting a little out of it. And you're going to be out of your element. Yeah, and then you're competing against Red Bull and Monster and all these other players.

9:10I'm not saying Liquid Death can't do well. Again, they probably will make more money doing all this stuff. But if I own the company and I didn't have investors, I think that's a key here. Liquid Death has to do a lot of this stuff because they're owned largely. I think they've raised a lot of money, right? Do you know how much they raise? Liquid Death funding. I'm looking at it. I know science, the incubator in LA, Mike Jones and Peter Pham are part owners in it. So it looks like they've closed multiple rounds. One of the latest rounds is$70 million, valuing the brand at$700 million. This is in 2022.

9:49Yeah. So they close a lot of rounds, and they have investors. So when you have investors, you have to have growth at all costs. Eric and I don't have investors. And I was talking to someone who works at a massive financial organization where they manage over a trillion dollars. Not a million, not a billion, literally over a trillion dollars. And this person writes checks into startups. They're a division. They're in private equity of that trillion plus dollar asset management. And this person writes checks in the hundreds of millions, sometimes more. They can write a half a billion. They can write a billion.

10:24They have a lot of cash, right? So money's not the issue. And when I was talking with them and we were talking about my own company, I was like, my growth slowed down a lot. We've expanded internationally, but I think we've made the right moves. and I was chilling at the pool at that time, and my kids were swimming. So we were talking, and he's just like, yeah, you're lucky you have no investors, or else you would have the pressure for a minimum of 20%, 30%, 40 % growth a year with good margins and good unit economics. I'm like, yeah, we're profitable. We have good unit economics. I'm like, yeah, I'm here chilling at the pool because I don't have investors, and I can do whatever I want when I want.

11:05Now, of course, every one of my customers is, in theory, a boss of mine. But we, of course, try to satisfy our customers and go above and beyond. But Liquid Web has outside shareholders, so they have pressure to grow. Liquid Death, not Liquid Web. Liquid Web is a different company. Liquid Death, just to give a sense for how much they raised. So they raised$1.6 million in seed funding. So I guess Peter did well and his co-founder. and then 9 million in series A, that was February 2020, and then 23 million in series B, and then another series C, that was for 75 million, and then they raised another 70 million or so, and then another 67.

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14:12Wow. Yeah. Never drank a bottle of it. I tend to stick with aqua pot. By the way, I bought, I don't ever told you, I went on Amazon. You should buy this too. So I bought a water tester. So I just stick it in everything. I'll still like, I'll have a cup and I'll just go around, I'll fill it up with shower water. I'll stick it in there. I'll stick it in the sink water. I'll stick it in there. And then the Korean filter I have is, um, so you want your water. I think I told you this, but you want the water to be under 50. It was 17. But when I put it under a sink, it's like 250. And when I put it under the shower, it's like 200 or so.

14:43And I have a filter for my shower too. So good, good for you to know. You should try it too. What does a filter look like? Is it a small device? Um, you mean the, the tester? Uh-huh. Yeah, it's a small device. It's like a little, like, it's like almost like a thermometer that you put in your mouth. Yeah. You just put it in the water and you test it. Remember when we went to Air One, you were going to take that bottle home and do a test on the Air One? I did. I did. It was 200. It was high. So Air One water is not as good as they're saying. It was a different brand of water. It was a different, we brought a different brand.

15:10We didn't buy the Air One one, remember? Because Air One was out. And so Air One, I'll test it next time. And I actually have Air One water coming at 1130. So I'll let you know. Or how about like Aquapana? Have you tested Aquapana in it? I don't have Aquapana at home, but I'll test it next time. I'll bring it when we record next time in person when you have a microphone. I don't have – yeah, I actually have Aquapana in my house right now. 200 is actually okay to drink, I think, but there's particles and stuff in there. But 17 is, like, amazing. So, yeah. This is why, guys, you need a reverse osmosis filter and then have some nutrients being piped back into it, and then you're good.

15:43I'm the opposite, man. I take a shower, I just open my mouth if I'm thirsty and just drink out of the shower. Do you really? Yeah. I've never done that in my life. Or both of these McDonald's hamburgers, and he's probably going to live longer than that. Who's that guy with the biomarkers, the Brian Johnson? Oh, Brian Johnson? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brian Johnson does not look healthy, by the way. By the way, you know what I'll say? I think for Brian Johnson, it's hard to keep the marketing up because I think he had a lot of reach like a year or two ago. I don't think he has as much reach anymore. And now that he's kind of moved into selling stuff, I think it's, I don't know.

16:18So this is a reinforcement that to be in the spotlight today, if you wanted to be like Oprah back in the 80s or so, you can be a celebrity for a long time. Now, because the algorithms are – it's so merit-based that people are very up and down, up and down, up and down, right? You might appear for a little bit, and then you become irrelevant like the next day. So it's hard to be a celebrity today, I think. Dude, you know I know someone who interviewed with him? Who? I'm not going to say their name. Oh, yeah. Sorry, not who, but what happened is more of what I asked. Okay, so the interview was for a role of a chief of staff, okay?

16:49But it was more like a personal assistant slash housekeeper, but they called it a chief of staff. A housekeeper? Yeah, you would have to do dishes and clean and all this, right? And it was really weird. The person needed a job. They chose not to take a job when they could have accepted it. Because it was stuff like, you can't sue me. you know I'm going to talk about stuff that you you can't talk about I'm going to be naked sometimes you're going to see me with erections out and you have to be okay with it and it was just starting getting really awkward like that and they were all this like peace I'm out you know like I don't need more of the interview I'm not here to go get a job with you and I thought that was awkward like someone saying hey you're going to work for me but you're going to see me naked and with erections and all this kind of stuff.

17:39And I was just like, I don't care how much they're paying. I would never want my kid to work in that kind of environment. You know, I actually referred someone to work over there too. And I don't think it was the same situation as this, but this person got offered a job and decided not to take it. I didn't ask why, but maybe this is why. But, you know, I met him. I did a pod with him. But I just think my perspective is it's very hard to stay relevant forever. and the thing is um some it's funny because he posts his biomarkers a lot but then there's art there's like people competing with him on his biomarkers now and people say hey look these are my biomarkers and they crush yours and i don't think i have the best biomarkers in the world so it's like it's if you're going to say you're the best um you better be able to kind of back it up and when i look at his biomarkers a lot of mine are better than his too and so i don't think you can use that as good marketing because those people that kind of know a little bit more um they're going to come out and disprove you and then all of a sudden you just look bad right and So again, I respect what he's built and what he's done, but I just think it's hard to stay relevant, especially with the health and fitness stuff.

18:41And so, you know, that's what it is. But here's some crazy stuff in the interview, right? Hey, I drink this kind of olive oil, right? I'm acting like if I'm Brian and I wasn't there. So maybe I'm getting some misinformation. That's my disclaimer. But he's just like, I drink this kind of olive oil, can't travel with it. So you need to figure out how to get it to wherever I am, right? and I need this olive oil and it has to be done this way and it has to go wherever I'm traveling. You need to figure out how to get it for me. But it was just like a lot of random stuff like that. And then another one was, oh, you need to organize all my pills and all this kind of stuff.

19:20You know, it takes like roughly 250 supplements and pills a day. Yeah, he didn't, that's a lot more than when I first asked him. So when you look at like 250, and again, I could be getting bad secondhand information situation um but that must be hard on your kidneys or liver or whatever it is and like when you look at him like i respect live your life but i actually don't think what he's doing like no son and all this is like a great way to live but you know to each their own the son is actually really important so this is not a health podcast guys but like this you need the son to reset your circadian rhythm and you need the son for vitamin d and a whole host of other things um so um he does something that asian moms do they walk out in the middle of the day with umbrellas because Asian moms like to protect their skin and everything.

20:07The Asian mom visors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that is it for today, guys. And we'll see you in a while.