Kareem Rahma on building a talk show empire and the business behind his viral shows

28:30So I kind of recused myself from participating in that kind of election. But again, mayoral election, I live here. I have a say. I'm a vote. Like, this is my home. So it felt more important to get involved on that level. But generally speaking, I don't want to get involved in other people's states. I don't want to get involved in other people's districts. Like, it's just, you know, I'm trying my best. The other thing is I'm trying my heart. I'm trying my best. Like, I genuinely, I mean, I know myself. I've lived with myself for 40 years. I know I'm a good guy. I'm really trying my best to make this thing feel like a positive contribution to society.

29:12I genuinely care so much. I book every guest still, myself, whether it's a random person I meet at a party or approving, you know, whatever celebrity is coming on and making sure that they represent, you know, the side of humanity that I feel like is important to today's world. And yeah, the show's very personal to me because if anyone's going to get blamed, it's going to be me. Subway takes most to become a really good business. Is it a better business than the sort of kind of quote-unquote legitimate TV business of Keep the Meter Running? Like is it a better business to be like a real television producer or basically a kind of extremely successful influencer, which in some sort of crude sense are the two things you're doing?

29:55I think being a successful influencer is probably better because I pay a lot of people. And most people, most influencers don't have a burn rate. I have a burn rate and it's high. It's really high. And especially because it could have been a good business if I didn't decide to expand it into Subway Takes Uncut, which is the longer form version on YouTube, Subway Takes Live, which is a ticketed event that happens every month at Brooklyn Improv that then is live to tape, which we haven't actually released yet. But because I've decided to expand the business, the burn rate is through the roof. And yes, I don't get paid as much as a regular influencer because of that.

30:45Do you have investors or this is all just money in, money out? So originally, me and my friend Andrew Kuo, who is, I guess, the co-founder of Subway Takes, I'd call it. The co-founder is such a weird name, but co-creator is probably a better name. um we started the thing together and we had originally failed at doing a uh scripted premium podcasting company which was in 2020 2021 he had raised money to start this premium scripted podcast company that i was the like creative officer of and we did that together for two to three years burned all the cash and with our last ten thousand dollars we're like i was i was into packing it up i was like look you take five i'll take five or let's return to ten the investors they're not going to want it but whatever and he was like well what is an idea that you have that is not like what is what's an idea that you have and i go well i have this one idea which is to make the exact opposite of what we've been making, which is an unpremium, unscripted, short form show that has nothing to do with, like, it's not on podcasting apps, and it's just the opposite of what we've been doing.

32:03And so that was our Hail Mary. Subway Takes was our Hail Mary. So we do have an investor pot of people that we carried over from that initial failed company where Subway Takes was born out of. And then that money is obviously all gone long ago because the last $10 ,000 went into producing the first 10 episodes of Subway Takes. And then now it is, yeah, it's funded primarily through brands. And who sells, just a very wonky question, but who sells those? So for the past, I'd say two years, I've been represented by Underscore Management, and they have taken care of the selling. I think a lot of it is inbound and a lot of it is outbound.

32:43But so Underscore has been running that part of the business for about two years. God bless the revenue people in media. They'll never get enough love. For real. Well, we have so much more to get to with Kareem, but we have to take a short break. So we'll be right back after this.

33:06This week on our branded segment from Think with Google, I talked to Google's VP of Marketing, Josh Spanier, about what CMOs can learn from creators. You and I were together at Cannes this year where a lot of the buzz was about creators. Emily Sundberg, Daniel Dobrik, Alex Cooper was there. We talked to her. It's a really fascinating shift in power in the media industry. Why have creators become the new center of gravity? So Ben, I want to credit you and Mick Signals. You've been talking about YouTube and creators since the very first episode of this podcast. It's kind of funny to me that in the middle of 2026, people are still waking up to the fact that YouTube is important and creators are influential.

33:44What plays from the creator playbook should CMOs be thinking about stealing to stay at the frontier? There are a number of things I think marketers can really learn from creators, which is why they're being so successful right now. First, understand your audience. Alex Cooper and every other creator has obsessed about their audience. They built their community person by person on the YouTube platform. That obsession about their customer is something that we in marketing sometimes move away from, sometimes forget. Know your customer, obsess about them. It's a great lesson. Second, YouTube has enabled a whole new expression of creativity and creators are matching that.

34:22There's long-form content. There's short-form content. There's video podcasts. There's high-quality, epic content. there's lo-fi content. What creators are doing is exploring the possibilities of their content and meeting their users, meeting their audience where they're at in the context that they want to consume content. We as brands are often guilty of just meeting our customers where we think they're going to be or where we wish they were. There's new creative expressions possible on YouTube. Take advantage of it. Third and finally, creators are masters at co-creation, at making their brands fluid and dynamic and organic and feeling authentic, building that trust with their audience.

35:04Us brands need to be better at letting go of some of our stage-managed manicuring of everything and just being part of the conversation in a way which is authentic and real to the brand. People respond to that. Where should people go to find out more? Head on over to thinkwithgoogle.com. We have a whole load of new content about creators and YouTube and how to activate them all at thinkwithgoogle.com.

35:35you told the journal that cnn had approached you but that you really like being you know in the open internet on youtube and you know so your family can watch it how do you think about that going forward i mean there's the kind of people who keep knocking on the door trying to license things trying to have you make shows for more you know more exclusive platforms that all how do you think about that i think the beauty of a career in entertainment and media at this exact moment in time is that everyone is flexible like literally for me being like oh you want an exclusive show cool let's figure it out you want an exclusive show cool we want your show non-exclusively cool let's figure it out oh you want to do do a deal between netflix and spotify jay shetty cool we'll figure it out you know it's a really experimental time it's really fun You know, it feels punk, and it's not punk because it's massive amounts of money.

36:27But it reminds me of the early internet, too. Some of these things make sense, some don't. You only find out after. Yeah, some will be successful, and some will crash and burn. But it seems like we've gotten out of a place where everyone's like, here's how we do it. Now everyone's like, we are open to doing it your way, or our way, or together. and it's just an exciting time where like yes to me you like more of a kind of like a personality adjustment is i feel successful and i feel like i'm participating in hollywood i i really do i feel like i've made it in hollywood i'm in hollywood i mean i don't have the same stuff that like Pedro Pascal has, but I'm participating.

37:16And you're actually just, just look, you're in downtown Brooklyn as I look at the window behind you. This is downtown Manhattan. Yeah, I have a studio in downtown Manhattan. I'm curious though, just to kind of get a little bit more, you know, into the details here, a big part of the show is kind of understanding how the new media economy works. Can you give us a scale of like, how big is Subway takes? Like how much money do you guys make every year? How much money does it take to pay for all the people who are involved in it? What does the money look like? I'll say that we're about to start spending.

37:50Oh, man. I don't even know if I'm... I mean, I'm technically allowed to say this because I'm the boss, but I don't know if I should. You're allowed to say anything on the podcast, by the way. I know. I'm trying to figure out... I don't know if I want to reveal my financials of the show other than it's expensive. and let's just say everyone gets paid a fair rate and there's a lot of people. I'm trying to figure out how someone smart would answer this. How would you answer it, Ben? Maybe give a range. I'd probably. Okay, hold on. Let me count the figures. Yeah. It's in the mid five figures, I'd say, to run the company every month.

38:27Makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense. I think, you know, but the reason why we ask is because a lot of this stuff is so opaque. People have no idea how influencers make money beyond brand deals, how much those brand deals are worth. And I mean, when somebody says a brand deal, it could be worth a very, very small amount or it could be worth a tremendous amount, right? And so much of that culture, I mean, not your part of it, but it's about sort of projecting financial success. And so all these people, there's so many people out there, I think, who are kind of eating cat food and posing in front of private jets.

38:58So it's like, not you, not you. But it's also the opposite sometimes, too. opposite sometimes you're like holy shit it is insane how much money some of these you know some of these individuals for sure i mean i've been very specific about how i want to be perceived in both the market as well as in the media and i don't want to be perceived as an influencer because i don't think what i do is influencer like i'm not an influencer i don't do get ready with me or like you know vlogs or you know i'm not flexing it's not part of my thing i'm not even that part, like with the exception of keep the meter running, my personal life isn't really the main focus of my content.

39:38And I think that's the difference between an influencer and a person who is maybe influential is that, you know, what I put out is entertainment and it's personal to me, but my life is not the entertainment, if that makes sense. And from day one, I've always wanted to express kind of that I'm a producer. I mean, I'm more of a producer than I am an influencer. I'm more of a producer and talent and a development executive, I guess you could say, because I greenlight that. You know, it's like I'm a studio disguised. The nomenclature of influencer or creator, you know, it's all kind of become jumbled a little bit.

40:18I think influencers are still influencers. I think creators are a different thing. I think I like to call myself a producer or an entertainer. And for Subway Takes, that is brand funded. And one video will be able to pay for the month, let's call it. One sponsored video is paying for the burn rate for the month. Everyone's getting paid. We do two. I'm getting paid. It's a way to build a really strong business. And I'm expanding that with kind of this new content with Subway Takes Uncut and with the live show, right? So I'm bringing in new pieces of revenue, new methods of revenue. On Keep the Media Running, that show was funded by a company called And Media.

41:02They are a studio that is investing in creator-based entertainment from podcasts to shows like mine. season two will be a mix of of like that kind of money plus branded money you know and again it's like i would love to work with like a whatsapp because that makes sense in the cabbie community or an airline because i'm you know big surprise i'm announcing it here on set of four is that we're uh gonna you know we're gonna take the show international i also have developed a new way of like because doing two shows at once is very difficult and one's always on so the other one can't always be on or else i'll have no life at all so i'm gonna i'm trying something new which is that keep the meter running will be an always on show but it will be based around monthly drops in this like so once a month it's still eventized you're still like oh i wonder where he's gonna is he gonna be in china is he gonna be in venezuela is he gonna be in senegal like where's gonna go next and it gives time to kind of eventize the release and make it feel like a big thing and at the same time it gives me time to like have a cool time doing i said time so many times during this it gives me it gives like a lot of it of that show is like i want to have a really interesting and filled life like i'm i'm doing that project because it makes my life interesting and it makes me to places that I've never been.

42:31And it is inspiring and it feels really good. And it's good for humanity and for men. We have a men problem in this country. And I think seeing men hanging out and like in positive ways is helpful to the current state of the world. And, you know. I know the and media people a little bit. Some folks, you know, who used to work in the White House under Biden, who kind of started this after 2024, when they kind of realized they wanted to create a podcast and media company that kind of pushed in some ways that kind of pushed back against, you know, the manosphere and this kind of ascendant online, right, which if you look at the podcast charts or YouTube or whatever is just clearly, you know, occupies a huge, huge part of the media space, if not the dominant media space.

43:16I mean, do you kind of think that that's a, do you agree with the goal? I imagine that you do because, you know, obviously they're making, you know, they're partners on the show. Yeah, I mean, I think that we have a responsibility as people who sway opinion and can influence outcomes. We have a responsibility to do the right thing. And I think that there is a lot of darkness right now. and whether it's keep the meter running or subway takes i want to it's not like fight the forces of evil but i want to contribute positively to society honestly i want to look back on my career and say you know you were a good guy you did a good thing you made good stuff that people responded to and it affected them in ways uh it made them cry it made them laugh but it made them do something you know and hopefully it didn't make them get pissed off and like throw rocks at uh buildings or whatever you know like um but yeah i i do think that there's just not a lot of great male role models um out there right now i think i don't know i haven't thought about like it's not like a thing that i think about do you know what i mean i'm not like thinking about it all every day but i do know that when you know people talk about someone like anthony bourdain for example it's generally a very like people feel connected to that person and if he was around today i think a lot of young people would look up to him as someone better than xyz podcaster do you know what i mean like there's not a lot of options in terms of the things that have become successful so yeah i think i think trying to just be the best kind of person i can be is is good and that that's also one of the reasons i don't take uh money from prediction markets or alcohol or tobacco or um kind of i guess the military or whatever it's just like you know there's a hard line at like the dirtiest money new york is so much the subject of what you've done i'm glad i'm looking forward to international episodes but i mean to some degree everything you're doing is marketing for new york city and obviously you're a new yorker and love it and i guess one thing that i i mean i i and it's part of why i love subway takes and the show but i also worry a little it's so nostalgic like i feel like new york's in this moment when are we really just like becoming kind of like a museum of what it used to be like in the 20th century with these yellow cabs and these colorful characters or are we actually going to like be a city that grows and modernizes and i don't know I think people are very split on that.

45:59It's like runs through politics too. But I'm curious how you sort of like balance the nostalgia, kind of big picture, like the nostalgia for New York with like a future where this is like, where we're going to be five years or 10 years or 15 years, but these cars are all going to be driven by robots. Yeah, it's, I'm not like fighting it. And I don't intentionally like make it feel nostalgic, you know, like I take yellow cabs because it's available you know like like it's not like you're like not a not a lyft and uber guy no no i mean i of course i i use those but if if i have if i'm walking out onto fifth avenue i'm hailing a cab if i'm in my if i'm in park slope it's not happening you know like it's just not gonna happen so we do what we can um i i don't know that that's a really good question I've never had that question.

46:53I guess I am a kind of hopeless romantic, but not just about the city. It's just more about like the way we used to be. I think that's really the nostalgia is the way that we used to be. And there are little things that you can do to kind of change your life. How to change your mind by Michael Pollan. But no, no, don't, I'm not gonna, that's not what I'm saying. But like something as simple as like, you put your phone in your pocket when you're walking down the street. You know, there's a lot of people walking around with their phone out, looking at their phone, checking the phone on the phone.

47:29I mean, I think being on the phone literally is different than like looking at your text or responding. So it takes a little bit of intention, but I try to put my phone in my pocket when I'm going from point A to point B. And I enjoy the sights and sounds of the city. And I see things that remind me of the old days, right? I see an argument happening. I see a girl crying on a corner because she just got broken up with. I see a couple fighting. I see someone walking a poodle and she looks just like the poodle. And you start noticing like it's like 101 Dalmatians vibes. So that is kind of what I'm missing.

48:04I think I'm missing the, you know, I watch old movies like The Sandlot or Days and Confused. And it's not New York. It's just the way we used to be. and I think that is the thing that I'm a nostalgic for and I think that's the thing that I react to when I'm trying to make this stuff is it feels it does feel like a place that we've been but something that's so distant um but I think it's still there and a lot of people are living it you know a lot of people aren't us we live in mental crazy land we live in we are the ones that live in not reality. Seriously, we don't we live in the fake world. There's real world is everywhere.

48:52We live in the fake world. We're on the fucking podcast. Sorry for swearing. I only did it once this whole time. We are on the podcast. We are asking, does your mic work? We're asking. We're sitting here. We've never met in real life. And we're having a conversation like we have met in real life. I read this great article about lines. Did you guys read the article about lines? In New York? Yeah. In New York magazine? Oh, yeah. About lines, physical lines, lining up for stuff. Yes. Yes. And I was like happy for the people standing in line because I was like, oh, this is now a new New York tradition.

49:22And you can make fun of the people in line, but they I was like, they're having a great time. It's now become a place to hang out. We don't have any third places. You got to join Soho House if you want to hang out somewhere. or one of the other 1 ,700 private members clubs in the city. The line, to me, is more appealing than a members club. I would rather stand in the line. That's where you're going to get what we're missing. That's where you're going to get sitting at the diner counter, right? And you might be standing in line for a fucking cookie that's viral on TikTok, but at least you're having a conversation with someone else who's standing in line for the cookie.

49:58That person might be a West Village resident of 70 years, and it might be a person that's visiting the West Village for the first time in their life and just got back from Sarah Jessica Parker's stoop. But the point is, I'm like, you know what? If that defines us, I'm down. And it's probably a very unpopular opinion, but there are no lines in Dubai. There are no lines in Shanghai. I mean, there might be lines in Shanghai. I don't know, maybe to get into the club. But they're not like here. And they're not lines for the mundane. Yeah, I will say, yeah, if you walk, you know, walking around in the in the West Village or whatever at a certain hour, I don't think New York does not feel like a museum to itself.

50:41It feels more like the line. Kareem, we want to ask you want to want to ask you a few questions before we wrap up here. What do you think makes a successful subway take? And what do you think makes a subway take bad? i think the bad i'll answer that part first i think the bad subway takes are when people prep and prep and prep like i've had people show up with like a notepad and being like here's my notes here's my scribbles and who did that who did that name some names no no like just a lot of regulars as a you know a lot of normal a lot of civilians come with the notepad i'll say like young lean came i have it framed young lean came with uh notes that i was like can i have these and I framed it.

51:21Oh my God. Uh, Julian Casablanca's also came with notes and the people that do well are the ones that come with a deeply personal, like, I don't want to talk about Woody Allen, but like a gripe, you know, they have like a small, an insignificant thing that has been bothering them. And then when they say it out loud, you realize that it's a problem for everyone and everyone's got an opinion on this little thing that you never expected everyone to have a problem with, you know? Those are the ones that do really well. Do you think that people, especially the kind of A-list celebrities, people who have something to lose, kind of don't come with enough heat?

51:59Because I was kind of arguing with some people online about the J-Lo one that you did, which I thought was, even though I think her take is terrible, I thought it was awesome that she came with something and that was like gonna piss people off. Real New Yorkers must be born in New York. You have to be born here, right? It's divisive. The opposite is true. You gotta see the movie Metropolitan and the opposite is true. I've just got that movie on DVD. I've never seen it. Oh, that's the defining New York movie. I'm excited. I'm going to hear what you think of it. Totally agree, but I think that 100 % agree.

52:27But I do think that like, but I do think that - It's not in there. Yeah, exactly. I was going to say, I think people say that more now because of you. They do. No, they definitely do. Oh, Jesus. But I do think like the thing that was beautiful about that take, which got written up in the New York Times, like a whole article obviously written about this one, about this take. Like, you know, was that it was going to piss people off. And this is a very famous person with an opinion that's going to alienate and anger kind of a lot of people. Do you feel, though, that the do you feel like the people who come who are, you know, very famous, your A-listers, are they are they bringing enough?

53:01Are they bringing enough heat? I've always said that the takes don't need to be hot. They really they don't need to be spicy. Like Sterling K. Brown came on and he said Honeycrisp apples are the best apple. I was ecstatic. I love Honeycrisp. Like that is something you go to the grocery store and there's all these apples and red delicious is not delicious. It's actually should be called red disgusting. And like to me, that is a perfect take. It's not hot, but it's like it's personal. You now know that Sterling K. Brown has been thinking about apples and like it's just good. That's a good take. Or the Rizzler, peanut butter is overrated.

53:41It's just fucking funny. But it was the subject of conversation. I had Stavros on yesterday and he was like, I love the take. And he was like, I think it's generational. The Rizzler is born into a world where there are so many butters. Of course, peanut butter is horrible. Oh my God. The guy has access to every butter. And I go, dang, the context is true. Like when I was growing up, it was either crunchy or creamy. That's it. There was no pistachio butter. There was no almond butter. There was no like whatever, Nutella. I didn't even have Nutella until I was 30. For real. Like the Rizzler has access to butters.

54:17So for him, of course, peanut butter is overrated. So when you start thinking about like, the takes don't have to be hot. It's just, you appreciate the most Monday. Today's take is crazy, which is, I was like, Oh boy, I almost, this is one that I was almost like, I don't, I think I want to not do this, but I still did it. And it was that, uh, let me see here. I'll pull it up. It was that nothing is gayer than the U S military. Oh. I get it. Whose take was that? I get it. Yeah, who was that Scott? No, this guy Jasper, he's just like a guy. Was that Pete Hegseth? Yeah, but he talks about Peter Hegseth in the thing.

54:57But he does talk about how like in the army and the navy, it's the same as like a frat. It's like this homoerotic tension, which is true. I mean, it is true. Dudes with their shirts off, dancing. You know, they're in their underwear. they're fucking kissing each other on the lips because they're bonded as as brothers and there's this yeah there is this homo erotic tension uh that occurs in these traditions and all of this he wrote a whole book about it but you know the opening line i was like i don't know if i want to publish it because like if you don't watch if you don't watch the whole video it's like not gonna understand the nuance of that one uh yeah oh yeah sometimes they get into territory where i'm like well actually that's a no but this is a good question for you which is like you know probably in episode one or episode you know five or whatever when not as many people were watching it you wouldn't be as scared of a take like that right but now that you you know you are uh you know 800 episodes in almost you have more to lose you have a lot of people who work for you you have more people who could theoretically be pissed off by your stuff do you feel is that is that more challenging.

56:08Do you feel like maybe you either push back on some of the takes more or you are at certain ones that you don't want to, you know, air? Do you feel more of the pressure now that you have a bigger platform? I definitely feel a pressure about like, again, this thing about responsibility and like trying to push the conversation forward, but also maintain a level of integrity at the same time. I think other people now that it has become such a big platform, it's kind of like my problem has been solved because no one wants to really inflame. You know, I mean, that's a pretty spicy take, though. So maybe I'm wrong.

56:45Maybe people are still coming. We'll find out in like a few days or whatever that goes. Maybe they're still coming on with full on heat. But I've really not I've not told anyone that they like must change their take. There really hasn't been. And no one's come and said like something so inflammatory that I'm just like, you can't do that. You know, people, they get the assignment. They know I'm also not dealing with like evil people most of the time. Like I said, I booked the show myself still. So I'm usually around like normal, good hearted people. Yeah, but I guess the thing about it is like I try to, I guess the thing I want people to know, and I think this is why the Emmy nomination is such a win is like, I think a lot of like a lot, like the people think it's like an iPhone, you know, they don't see the prep, the pre-production, the post-production, the regular production, the amount of people that work on the show, the fact that it like operates almost like a magazine.

57:51And I'm the editor in chief in terms of what show, like who I'm going to greenlight, what talent I'm going to, you know, it's like, it is a whole apparatus. And I'm glad that with the success of the show, it has pushed the genre of short-form, unscripted, vertical video content forward. And to be nominated for an Emmy is like the pinnacle of television success, literally. And, I mean, Stavros yesterday was like, you should probably retire. Like, what is after this? you know and he and and if i didn't love what i do then that would probably like when he said that i was like maybe i could and then i got really sad because then i was like well i wouldn't be getting i'm i new york now feels like i live in hey arnold or sesame street it's awesome for me i'm riding my bike yo kareem subway takes like it feels cool to be in a community where i feel like you know people they like the show generally speaking they like the show of course there's haters there's haters for everything but yeah i i like the things i want to set the record on are like that this show required like i have to take money because i have to pay so many people i have to i can't not pay people i've from day one i've paid people fair wages number two 95 of the people that get booked on the show do not have a publicist like it's not all influencers it's like that author guy was he pitched himself he was like i'm writing a book about gayness in the military and i go that's awesome you're on you know he doesn't have a publicist the comedians that come on the show they don't have publicists and a lot of it there's people there's non-profits that are like hey can we get on the show i put non-profits on there i'm trying my hardest there's only so many slots but there's this kind of misconception that it's all publicity and it's all celebs and as all PR people, but like, it's simply not the case, you know?

59:51So those are the two criticisms that I face the most. And those are two criticisms that I'm like, they're just inherently false. You know, I started the show from day one as a talk show. I've booked every single guest from day one. It's never been a random guy on the train. I've tried that. It does not work because you just go, what's your take? And then, you know, they don't have a take or they're just like not prepared. I mean, entertainers are entertainers, people on camera, people on camera, you guys would be great on the show because you talk for a living, you know? Yeah, I actually do. I mean, that's the one thing that we've, that we've tried to do that we realized very quickly for this show, even though it's a media podcast and it's a media business podcast that we're like, oh, we need people who actually know how to talk into a microphone.

1:00:39for an hour. It's really hard. And it's even hard to get them to talk for two minutes. Right. Probably harder. Probably harder. That's true. With Keep the Meter Running, I had some of the taxi drivers come on subway takes and like it was a lot more difficult for them to do that show. And we should keep the meter running for like two days. And it was easy because it was their environment. They're like, take me to the Russian bathhouse. Like it's easy. When you go on subway takes and you're like, okay, you have to say a thing and defend it or I'll agree with you and we riff on it. they're just like, I don't get what this is.

1:01:11I think a good place for us to wrap is, you know, you've done, you know, like we said, almost you're, you'll cross the threshold for 800 episodes of Subway Takes pretty shortly. Are you, are you getting bored? Do you feel like I've done it 800 times? You know, I'm, I kind of can't a hundred percent agree as much with as much enthusiasm as I used to be able to. Look, man, I'm in a Zen state. And again, to me, this is a dream. and the way I battle that is by launching Subway Takes Uncut and then by doing a live show. Like, I'm kind of keeping myself entertained by expanding it and being able to, like, produce a live show, which I've never done before.

1:01:53And now it's like, you know, I'm learning all about the live show stuff. And then we did five live shows without taping them, and then I was like, let's tape them. So now I'm learning how to do a live-to-tape thing, which brings its own challenges. So yeah, like, and it's fun. I mean, I'm having a fun time. Of course, I will get tired. Of course, I don't want to do it for the rest of my life. But right now, it feels like we're making headway. And again, this Emmy nomination, it's like, why would I stop? You know, I really don't know why I would stop. Well, Kareem, thank you so much. This has been really, really fascinating.

1:02:28And congrats on this season. Keep the meter running. And of course, the Emmy nomination. Do you think you're going to win? Are you campaigning for it? I'm getting my speech ready. There are probably some Emmy voters listening. This is a good for your consideration spot. That's right. Please consider. I don't think I'm allowed to say it. We're campaigning for you. Yes. Well, thanks, Karim. We appreciate it. Thank you guys so much.

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1:03:34Max, what a delight to kind of like encounter someone in that like kind of like golden moment of his career. Like when everything's working and also it's new. I don't know. That was just that was such a fun conversation. I agree. What I thought was really great is just the lack of like bitterness. I do think it's got to be probably slightly annoying if you're like in a bar or you're with your, you know, he's got a young kid and, you know, he got married recently. And like, you know, if you're with your family and you're at the line for the coffee shop and someone's, you know, shouting something kind of obnoxious at you, like that's got to be kind of annoying.

1:04:07But what I really liked is the fact that I don't think he's sick of it. No, he's not. And I actually think he's like at the exact That precise right altitude of fame. Yeah. You know, where it's like nice. Right, right, exactly. And there is like kind of this open question of like, can you get bigger as an internet, you know, digital first personality? Can you kind of make the transition from Subway Takes Guy, who I sometimes see on my feed, to like actually, you know, Kareem himself, the celebrity who people know in kind of different venues? I feel like he's kind of, he is right on the cusp. He's done some television.

1:04:41He's, as you mentioned, he's up for an Emmy. I mean, I don't know. What do you think, Ben? Do you think like people like Kareem, like we had Adam Friedland on last year. Yeah, it was last year now. And, you know, he is somebody who is kind of at a very, at a similar altitude where he's kind of broken past digital stardom and is now kind of moving closer to more mainstream Hollywood stardom. Do you think that, do you think that that's going to happen for Kareem or is that career path kind of gone the way of, dying linear television. No, I mean, I think that's the thing. Like, is there anything on linear television as compelling as what he's doing or as what Adam's doing?

1:05:18Like, I think, you know, it's funny, there's been, we talk about convergence for so many years, the digital and linear converging, but actually, it's not exactly, they did kind of converge and absorb each other, but it is these, like, so much of the most compelling, whether it's like journalism, like what Johnny Harris is doing, or entertainment, like what those guys are doing is just being produced by people at the height of their powers who've been doing it a while and are totally native to these ecosystems. And if you think about like how hard and clunky it is to like rebuild 60 Minutes and they're like, what is 60 Minutes?

1:05:52And like, I don't even know. But then what folks like Johnny and Karim are doing is just totally native to not, not to the digital ecosystem, but just to how, what people want to see, what they watch. I mean, It's just, it's totally, it's totally different. And I think, yeah, I think he's, I think it'll probably be so famous. It's super annoying soon. Yeah, for him, not for us. He seems like a delightful, delightful guy and the kind of person you want to be famous. I think what's interesting too is, and I think that the freedom that folks like Kareem and like Johnny and like, you know, Adam have is the freedom to play around with the format, right?

1:06:27Yeah. He can do Subway Takes as a half an hour podcast slash interview show. He can do it as a two-minute short clip because that's the only part that's interesting for TikTok and for Instagram Reels. He can do it as a live show at a comedy venue in Brooklyn. It's the ability and the freedom to play around with format in a way that if you're in linear linear television, you're like, I have to deliver this television by this amount of television by this specific date. I can and can't say these types of words. There's all the kinds of technical elements that kind of go into it. And I think that what we found is that that's really limiting.

1:07:08And people want to watch shows that are two to three minutes long. And that's totally fine. I thought that moment he was just talking about what an unformed world it is and how flexible it And it's like, and the notion that you would only do YouTube or not do YouTube and only do Netflix, like all of that is sort of, or, you know, be behind a paywall or not behind a paywall. Like, sure, all of the above. Like, let's, and it's just a very kind of like open, fluid moment, which, if you're very connected to your audience, is very fun. What makes a popular show in 2026 is kind of this open question, right?

1:07:41Like, Mixed Signals, as far as the audience for the show goes on a regular downloading basis, is great. But we obviously, the clips, the impact of the clips on the show, I mean, like, I think some of the clips from this episode are going to do quite well and reach a tremendously large audience. When I talk to people who say that they follow mixed signals, I think most of them are talking about the fact that they just see these, you know, the best bits that we, that are excellent producers put out there for the world. What did you think of, I thought that was an interesting observation that the rise of kind of AI slop, which in some way like perfects the like gamified outrage bait nonsense, actually then opens space for more authentic stuff.

1:08:20Like, do you buy that? Or sort of the AI is going to outcompete really cynical humans at being super cynical and awful? I think that it's, I think that it definitely, Kareem is circling around an interesting idea, which is the gamification is something that the platforms are always going to want to push back on. I mean, when we had Adam Aseri on the show and he was talking about this, Instagram is doing a lot to push back against slop on its platform, even though it might not feel that way necessarily. They know that users want content that feels real. They don't want content that feels cheap and is just trying to kind of game the algorithm.

1:08:58If there's one thing that I think we both know, it's that if you can game the platforms for a short amount of time, but eventually people get tired of it, it becomes cliche, people, it's not good necessarily for your brand. This was the problem with clickbait, right? It was like, these were, this is a term that was invented because people felt tricked into clicking on something because of tricks that people or media companies were playing with the image or with the headline to essentially reel people in and that content was really low cost. So I actually, I do agree. I think that the key that Kareem has got at, that Chris Black got at in his interview with us is just like have good taste and do the stuff that you think is interesting.

1:09:39And if you have the kind of A-list charisma like Kareem has, I think it ends up working out pretty well for you.

1:09:48Well, that is it for us this week. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Mixed Signals podcast. from us here at Semaphore Media. Our show is produced expertly, as always, by Manny Fidel, with special thanks to Josh Billinson, Amber Olley, Rachel Oppenheim, Anna Pizzino, Daniel Hafe, Garrett Wiley, Jules Zern, and Tori Kaur. Our engineer is Rick Kwan, and our theme music, of course, is by Steve Bone. If you like Mixed Signals, please follow us wherever you get your podcasts, and feel free to leave us a five-star review. And if you want more, you can always sign up for Semaphore's media newsletter which is out every Sunday night.