Allison Ellsworth Sold Poppi for $2 Billion. Here's What Happened Next.

21:40Nicole Lapin:Can you tell us anything more about what the next act is? Is it going to be in the food and beverage space? It's 100 % going to be in CPG. It's what we know. Not ready to talk about it yet because we're still working through some stuff within how and when we're going to launch it. So it'll definitely not be this year. I remember watching it. I don't know if you've seen it. Elizabeth Gilbert's, I think it's her second TED Talk where she talked about the pressure after Eat, Pray, Love came out and what it was like and how scary it was to follow up such a big success. Do you feel any of that kind of pressure for your second company?

22:20I do. And it's almost it's scary. And I think me and my husband look at each other almost daily. I'm like, are we really doing this again? And you're doing it together. We're doing it together. Yeah. We constantly look at each other. Are we doing this again? We're doing this. Are we doing this again? We're doing this again. And it's like a daily thing of like, oh, my gosh. But things are really falling into place with it. And it's really fun to kind of just see how much confidence everyone has in us. So why not do it? And I do think, yeah, there's a lot of pressure, but I also believe in myself.

22:50Like I've always been a pretty confident woman. And when I set myself towards a goal, I'm going to do everything to get there and succeed. And I'm investing in myself and I believe in myself. And it's funny because I was a shark on Shark Tank this season and I started investing in other founders and I give a lot of my time to mentor other female founders and give back. And it's so funny because throughout all those processes, I just keep telling myself, like, I just want to do this again. Like, I love helping and mentoring, but like I miss operating. And so I think it's been a lot of affirming just thoughts and emotions throughout of it that I feel good about it.

23:28Nicole Lapin:So when you guys look at each other, the answer is yes. It's a go. And together. I would never do without my husband. We're so different. I think with any co-founder you need to find someone that is opposite of you that can respect your lane so he ran our innovation supply chain and I did like our creative and brand at Poppy and so we do things very differently and I just so respect what he does because I can't do that and he respects what I do and he can't do that and so when he gets in my lane and tries to pitch some fun like marketing campaign. I'm like, honey, that's cute. Same thing. Can we make this?

24:05He's like, honey, don't worry about it.

24:09Nicole Lapin:Of course, you have always been the face of the brand, but I had Emma Green on the show last week and I asked her if she gets different questions than her husband about the business. Like, do you hear questions that you like, don't like? I don't know. You tell me about balance and being a female founder versus the questions that he gets asked in a business capacity? You know, I think everyone gets annoyed of the, do you have mom guilt? You know, they don't get that. It doesn't bother me necessarily so much because I think that I have set such an incredible example for other females to be in my shoes.

24:52And sometimes you need to say those relatable things for them to be seen. So like we do all have mom guilt. when we're working and that's okay. But it's also okay just to work and live in chaos and travel and work just as much as men. Both can coexist together. And so yes, absolutely, I wish people would stop asking women those questions. But I also feel like there's so many times I've gotten DMs from moms saying, I didn't think I could do it. I couldn't have kids in a business. And I listened to you talking about that. And now I've started XYZ. So I think there's a little bit of a balance on on those questions and it's always easier if it's coming from a female versus like a man on stage asking those questions I also feel that feels a little bit icky so I think it just matters within the moment but you know work-life balance I don't think I think it's like once again a buzzword like the authentic and the real I think if you're doing anything that you love and you're working eight hours a week and you're doing spreadsheets in the bedsheets after the kids go to bed spreadsheets in the bed sheets I mean come on who doesn't put their kids to bed my husband and I do you work you put a reality show on you pour a glass of wine like baby get in my sheets get in my excel sheets it's so true right like everyone's working in bed after the kids go to bed um and I think that it's like okay to do that and it's like chaos is fun and it's you can do it or you can't but if I'm here to tell you if you want to be successful you do have to do that.

26:24I had a founder the other day say to me, I closed my computer at five o 'clock and I sauna and I cold plunge and I'm just really protecting my mental state right now. I was like, oh my gosh, when was your exit? And he was like, oh, I haven't had one yet. And I was like, yeah, no shit. Like, obviously you haven't.

26:44Nicole Lapin:Tell me you haven't had an exit without telling me you haven't had an exit. Literally. I was like, uh-huh. Yeah. Scary. And it's just like, I love it. But I think it goes back to if you're doing that it's called passionate if it's stressing you out it's called stress and you got to find your own journey within that so no one's asked Stephen if he has dad guilt no I don't I don't think so but I will say he would say yes he feels way more guilty being away from the kids than I do and it has nothing to do with me versus him but it's more so I was the face of the company for the longest time for the last five years he's been working full-time and actually at home more with the kids.

27:21And so he's really taken on this like protector role with them. And so he has a little bit harder time leaving them than I do. Not that I don't love my kids the same as him, but I do think this it's an interesting balance that he's trying to work through. So he, I think, has more dad guilt than I have mom guilt. Yeah.

27:39Nicole Lapin:You've also talked about how you and Stephen have different approaches to money. Of course, we're money rehab. So you've said that he leans more frugal and you like to spend and enjoy money. Do you compromise or how do you compromise or what's the conversation when you guys disagree on something? You know, honestly, I really feel like I made this money too. At least half of it's mine, but we're married. So all of it's mine and all of it's his. And because he's uncomfortable spending money, let's say clothes, for example, he won't buy things if I buy things because he feels like he has to hold back because I'm spending well then that creates resentment he should go be able to buy things as well he's made the money and so these are the conversations we're having is like one does plus one doesn't equal two he's just like so black and white within it and so I think it's just been really hard having and navigating those conversations and then having a conversation of those big one-time purchases that you are just so excited about post exit, like buying jewelry or clothes or vacation that aren't going to be forever things.

28:48Like we are not going to go spend a month in Europe again this summer, right? That was so expensive. We took 20 of our family and my mom and his parents and cousins and like all of these things, like that's a one-time cost, like get over it, the cost of that. And it's really hard for him. And I think he's getting better now with time and seeing our spending over a year and understanding with our financial advisor that we've never once gone over budget. And so I think he's starting to pull back, but it's just like kind of, it's just his nature. He's, he's very frugal. So I kind of just have to buy stuff for him.

29:21Nicole Lapin:I mean, my husband and I, we do like a scale. So when we disagree on something, we say like, how important is it to you? And so, because I think that puts it into perspective and it quantifies it. So we disagree on something and I'm like, how important is this to you? It's a seven. To me, it's a four. It's like, okay, you win. You know, that's smart. So I also feel like I don't, I don't know if you've read the book, like die with zero. No, I gave it to him. So it's basically like spend your money in your lifetime. Is that what you're planning to do? No. And it was funny. I just gave him the book because I was like, I think you need to read just how other people think about money.

30:01And that's not always about planning and financial futures and estate planning. And I'm like, what would it be like if you spent money? And it was an interesting, I saw like a shift in him afterwards. Now, I absolutely do not want to spend all my life, our money. I want to leave money for my kids, but I also don't think I should leave so much to them that I didn't get to live the life that I worked hard for. So it's a conversation. It's a balance. It's also a conversation yearly that can change. you might have a great year you might have a down year of the stock market was crap and you made really bad investments or you could have go you know three years from now we could have a couple exits and some of our investments so I think it's fluid and I think he'll get more comfortable as we sit into it over the next few years I would say that the sweet spot is somewhere

30:49Nicole Lapin:between thinking you're going to live forever and thinking you're going to die tomorrow it sounds like you guys are on kind of both of those extremes. I would be like if we die tomorrow. I genuinely would go have fun and just do whatever I want responsibly. If someone has a different mindset than their partner and they're watching, what advice would you give so that it doesn't cause tension? I think conversate daily about it. I think it's like, hey, I want to buy this or I want to invest in this, don't do it the day it needs to be done. Start that conversation if you can a month, two weeks, three weeks ahead of time.

31:28That time of people get really resistant to something that's not their idea. This is in life and this is in business and every day. If someone tells you something and it wasn't your idea, your first reaction is to say no. And I've learned that over time with a lot of people. People need time to process stuff. So the more space and time and it's like, okay, I want to do this. I know I need to make a decision in the next two weeks. You don't have to answer now. Just think about it and let's chat about it tomorrow. That can go so much further than I want to buy this and I'm going to and you have nothing to say.

32:02It can come across very wrong.

32:05Nicole Lapin:Yeah, you're saying the same thing. You're saying it differently or you're giving time. But it also depends on the risk tolerance of the receiver, right? So you hearing that, you might just say, yes, maybe your husband would need time. Correct, yes. And a lot of people too are more risk averse after they have kids. You went on Shark Tank when you were nine months pregnant. You've talked about it, your family being feast or famine. Sometimes your dad would have huge swings like millions of dollars up, millions of dollars down. Do you think some of your fearlessness came from that? Oh, absolutely.

32:35I don't know. Like I sometimes like worry like if something's wrong with me because I just don't have that emotion of, I just I literally could lose everything tomorrow and I'd just be happy as long as my family was there and I think that would freak a lot of people out that would freak my husband out and we'd have to totally change but I think the difference is as we have an incredible network I would work hard and I would build that wealth again and that excites me so much I love the build I love the chaos I love making money and my dad to your point he did make a lot of money he's lost some money and he's built three businesses since and now he's retired.

33:15So I think I have seen that horrible swing to nothing to to the rebuild. And I think it's it's not as scary if you've seen it, but you have to be built differently to handle it.

33:27Nicole Lapin:Yeah. What gene do you not have? I don't know. My husband's like, do you need to go to therapy to work there? I'm like, what is there to work through it? I'm happy all the time. And when you think about how you want your kids to think about money, is that a different way than you grew up? So something that I think was really important and what I was raised with was I was always told yes. I was always loved, always loved. And we have incredible values and we're God-fearing people. So we go to church every week, we pray with our family, we study the Bible, and we have such a clear path to philanthropy.

34:10So I educate my kids on give back. We give back at our church. I show them what we do when it comes to give back. And I think that that's really important throughout this to create good humans is for them to, yes, they get to go on the vacation, but what else can we do to give back in the world? And it's been really fun throughout this process. My dad, I said, just retired. We've been able to fund him going on over seven mission trips this year. And he's sending pictures and he's building schools in Africa and Thailand and all of these places. And I'm just like, look what Papa's doing. And next summer, we're going to take them and do that.

34:49So I think as long as they're getting that grounding-ness in their lives, as well as it's my money. It's not their money. Like we're very open with that. They have to do chores. They have to understand that like they don't get everything they want. But something that I think is really fun is we just recently opened up three Fidelity investing accounts for our kids. And they were asking about it and I was on Shark Tank. It was this whole thing. They're like, how do you invest? And I was like, well, let's let them. We made them sit down with our financial advisor, learn about it, think about what stocks and what bonds and all of these things they want to invest in.

35:27And it was so funny because they lost$65 last week and they were just like, wait, what just happened? And I'm like, yeah, it's not so easy, is it? So we're just having these conversations. I'm sure we'll fail along the way, but as long as we're just like really open about it, I think we'll create not horrible children, hopefully.

35:44Nicole Lapin:I'm obsessed with that. So how do you talk to them about money? Look, they're very little. four, seven, and nine. So I think you have to have those conversations at the level that they can understand. And I also think not overly talking about money is important. Not everything has to be about it. I think it's about experience and give back and working hard. Me and my husband, Steven, are some of the hardest workers I know. And I think that that's such a core value that if we can instill in them, they're like kids, they're lazy. You know, we were at the baseball game this week and my middle child was like playing in the sand and I'm like, pay attention.

36:22The ball's coming towards you. Like they're just kids. So at the end of the day, also just letting them be kids and not making them grow up so fast and all this pressure of life. And, you know, we'll get there as they get older. Age appropriate conversation.

36:37Nicole Lapin:But also like that kindergartner who asked you about being a billionaire. I know. So two different questions. First, how do you talk to your kids about money, which we talked about? And second, it sounds the same, but how do you talk to your kids about work? I think they see how hard we work. One of the number one questions I get from them recently is why are you guys doing this again? Why are you working? Great question. Why are you doing this again? And it goes back to that purpose piece of we like to work hard. Do you see this house that we're living in? It's not something that just comes by lightly.

37:13And I do think them visually seeing us continue to work hard will instill hard workers. But we're actually pretty tough on our kids. So they have a strict like after school activities, sports, you know, the pianos, the homeworks of the world. But I think normalcy, hard work and them just seen by example. But at the end of the day, you never know. Like their kids are unpredictable. So we're just going to try to do our best.

37:43Nicole Lapin:I mean, I've heard some parents say it's important to tell their kids that they enjoy their work. But then how do you do that without making them feel like you're choosing your work over them? Yeah, I don't think you have to choose. I think you can have both. And I think I was really big with Poppy. I mean, I breastfed on Zooms. I brought my kids to all of our big events. I like allowed to do where we would be in New York for a pop up. I'd bring my kids, they'd go to the pop up. They could see what we were doing and it would kind of like coexisted. I think like family values within the company was really big.

38:22And so I think that just that transparency and allowing them to ask those conversations. I think the biggest hack that I've actually learned is when you're home, you are present. I think a lot of working parents come home, they've worked for five days on the road they've been at dinner meetings and early meetings and they come home and they're exhausted and they start yelling at their kids because they want them to go to bed instead of putting your phone down sitting with your kid on the couch popping popcorn and snuggling like you'd be so surprised how many working parents don't take time to be present with their children and I feel like those micro moments that I'm extremely present with them makes up for me being on the road for five days.

39:05And at the end of the day, when we leave to go somewhere, they're not screaming, crying as we're walking out. I know I'm doing good because my kids will say, hey, mom, where are you going today? I'm like, New York. They're like, when are you coming back? I'll be like, Friday. And they're like, have fun. Like, they're okay, right? And so I think that just be present, put your phone down, hang out with your kids when you are home, and they'll be okay.

39:27Nicole Lapin:Yeah, be wherever you are. It's hard because then, you know, the guilt can go both ways you're like oh I'm you know guilty I feel guilty that I'm not you know doing this spreadsheet in the sheets or you know I'm not doing this work thing that I need to and I'm here with my kid and vice versa when I'm at work you know I'm guilty that I'm not with my kid. Well it's funny because like you know we're talking about money and wealth I think what comes with that is I'm actually buying back a lot of my time just so I can spend it with my kids and an example is I'm obsessed with cooking. It's one of my favorite things to do in the entire world but recently we've brought in a chef to come in cook two to three times a week and I'm buying back my time of me cooking for two hours for the three nights I'm home a week to now I'm outside throwing the ball at the kids or playing play-doh or painting and it's actually been harder on me.

40:21I want to be cooking because it's something I really enjoy. But I've allowed myself to buy back that time. It's same with, you know, hiring a housekeeper or a nanny. Sometimes people look at that as like a really bad thing. Like, oh, you have a nanny or you're not raising your kids. I actually look at it different of like, we have a nanny to allow me to maybe do one-on-one things with my kids. And so it's a big thing that I think we've made also part of our life is like this buying back of time to allow us to kind of be more of a family unit. Yeah.

40:49Nicole Lapin:And you've talked about the breastfeeding on Zoom and after your second kid going back two weeks after you gave birth. Do you feel like you had to do that or is that something that you wanted to do? I think success looks very different in the early years of say mother beverage and poppy and success now back then we had to do that there was no there was no choice right we Stephen was working a second job we were could barely pay our mortgage we didn't know sometimes if we could buy groceries we sold our cars to buy bottles we were all in and so we had to do that then we don't have to do that now and that's the difference and so your success level of what you have to do at different stages it can change and it can evolve and I love that we did go through that because it just taught us just so much hard work and how willing and how passionate we were about poppy and then you secured the bag which brings us to our game secure the bag that's so fun okay what's the best piece of money advice you've ever given someone else I think that if I'll speak through an entrepreneurial lens.

41:57Go as long as possible without paying yourself if you're truly building a business. Really? Hire other people. Surround yourself with other people that can take things off your plate. Now, I know some people can't do that. But for example, post Shark Tank deal, I actually still did not pay myself almost the first six months of Poppy launching. And when I did, we started, me and my husband's starting salary for the first year at Poppy was$50 ,000. I think some people take on investment, pay themselves too early versus hiring someone else and getting stuff off your plate. I mean, so many people say pay yourself first.

42:34Nicole Lapin:I know. I think it's... I think you have to pay yourself something. So I started my company bootstrapped with my life savings and didn't want to pay myself and didn't for a while. You can't go crazy, but the bare minimum feels like you're putting your oxygen mask on first. So my husband got a second job that he worked nights and weekends for like two years paying our mortgage. So yes, you do need some kind of income, but I do think don't put as much back into the business as you can until you can't. So yes, at some point you do have to pay yourself to put food on the table and a roof over your head.

43:10But if you can't or if you don't need to, like go as long as possible. Okay. Have you ever felt embarrassed by your bank account balance? In a good way or a bad way, I guess, could be interpretive. So I've always made really good money. I worked in oil and gas research and made good money working previous to starting Poppy. And then even in college, I was like a hustler. So I'd work my summers doing oil and gas. I would do work for service fires, making like$200 to$300 a day at like 19 years old. In oil and gas? Yeah, oil and gas, when I first stopped, I was a land man. I was making like 500 bucks a day.

43:48So I've always made good money. I've never been embarrassed, but what I was not good at was saving. So I never saved a single dollar until I met Steven. So I was making like$200 ,000 a year and spending all of it. So maybe more on that side of things, but never by the amount that was in the bank account. But maybe not that I wasn't fiscally responsible. Okay, is there something rich people buy that you think is ridiculous? I'm 39 years old. I feel very blessed to have some kind of wealth earlier on. One cringy thing that I think is when you see like a 65 year old guy in Miami at a club like with girls and a table, like I'm just like, that is so gross.

44:27And, you know, like those type of things like really give me the ick because one, I don't want to be at a club ever in Miami with like a bottle service unless I'm at a bachelorette party but I do think that they see the value in buying people's time and people around them versus having true friendship and true relationships because I think people sometimes don't know how to act around people that don't have money like I could care less if my friends have money and they can't do things and I'm just gonna do what they can do do you pay for your friends or have people asked you to borrow money post exit I think I've had like two people ask me for money I was actually surprised at how little that happened.

45:06One, it was a friend from college that asked me for$20 ,000. It was very awkward and we don't speak anymore. And it was okay. I hadn't really spoken to her in 10 years post-college anyways. So you gave it to her? I did not. Oh. No. But I just was like -

45:22Nicole Lapin:So you don't speak because she asked? Yeah, it was weird. I think if someone came to me and they were truly hurting in life and you wanted to have a conversation, I would have that conversation. I think giving back is important and valuing people. But it was like, hey, you're rich. Give me 20 grand. You know, I think that that is like very weird and crude of like just asking like, hey, I need this money. Like that's just like that's just weird to ask anybody that ever. Right. But you would never lend a friend money. I don't know if I wouldn't. I think under the right circumstances, if someone wants to invest in like their business or their dream or something, I probably would.

45:59If it was like a good idea. Like, why not give someone else a chance to live their dream if it's like a good idea, if it's like a really bad idea. They're like, I want to make candles. And I'm like, it's kind of been done before. Let's talk about this. Let's get to the bottom of what we should do. Let's workshop it. Exactly.

46:15Nicole Lapin:So we end all of our episodes by asking our guests for a tip that listeners can take straight to the bank, an investing tip. I want to get your thoughts actually on oil and gas because you worked in the space. Do you have investments? No. I mean, it's been wild lately. We looked at it post-exit and like how we wanted to work in that. But it is such a different world of you have to know it and you have to know the right resources. And it's highly risky. It's very capital intensive. And it's, yeah, it's just very expensive. I wouldn't say we wouldn't ever. I think we're more interested in like if we want to do something, it would be like a real estate side of things.

46:55But oil and gas, I think I would, but not right now.

46:58Nicole Lapin:But your oil and gas was not like you trading oil futures. You were like landman. I was a landman. So I worked for seven years on the road, like going out to these small teeny towns of like 3 ,000 people. And I would be negotiating with the landowners and the Indian reservations and the local just community on can we come in? You work with like the water resource and the environmental stuff. And it was just like so fun. And so we basically would go into the courthouse and you'd open up the big books and you'd go back to the 1800s when the United States gave the patent to that settler at the time.

47:34And then you would just track it forward. Who owns the oil rights? Who owns the land rights? And so I would live in these teeny towns for like two years. And I remember, I mean, Stephen, we lived in a motorhome our first year of marriage in a town of 3000 doing this together. So but it makes good money and it was fun. You could work like eight months out of the year and travel the rest of the time. And so I look fondly on it, but I didn't I wasn't passionate about that. Like I think that's a good example of making good money without passion. And so I know now working hard and having passion, making money is way more fun.

48:05Nicole Lapin:Do you see the show? It's not true. The show is like there's nothing. No. What do you mean? No, there's no explosions. There's no drama. Nobody is like I will say something that is true with the show is like they do have like the worker places where all the workers are like living in like Fargo, North Dakota and like all of the motels like they do take over the towns and do that type of stuff. But all the drama, but no, there's no people get the money. There's a lot of money. Yes. Yeah. But I mean, I worked on like the landman side. I wasn't like the oil company getting the money. So unfortunately.