Lucy Guo’s Billionaire Playbook: Startup Secrets, Hidden Money Rules, and the Power of FOMO

28:39But my friend was home and yeah, he scared him off. Oh my God. Yeah. And I mean, you have an amazing person here with you today, but like you're not rolling super deep with like armed guards right now. Do you have like bodyguards? Yeah, so I actually had an A-list actress ask me this the other day. And I was just like, I think the difference between me and you is that like you get paparazzi'd and followed and like recognized, right? No one cares about tech billionaires. Like I don't think Mark Zuckerberg is getting paparazzi'd. And if he is, I'm sorry, Mark, like Brian Chesky, I'm pretty sure he lives in LA.

29:14No one's following him around. You never see him on the news. And these people are like much much wealthier than me and i do think it's just like uh oh like we're tech people we're tech nerds like no one cares about us which is great because i don't feel the need to like walk around with a bodyguard i actually think that makes you more noticeable the best bodyguards are ones that are like more incognito like they look like a friend or like short tiny they dress in like normal clothes that situation scare you like are you worried about safety and and you know i'm worried about safety because like at the end of the day if i get robbed like what's gonna happen and I don't really have that many nice things.

29:46You could rob me, and you're going to be sorely disappointed. I don't have expensive art. All my really nice stuff is locked up in a bank vault. I have nothing. I mean, your computer. I do have my computer, yes. I have had my computer stolen once at Starbucks. That sucks, but now I'm assuming, I mean, you forget more than I will ever know, but I'm sure it gets all backed up and everything. Yeah, well, I mean, I got my laptop back. I chased a guy. Stop. Yeah. Like you ran after them? Yeah. it was a really stupid decision like thinking like looking back i was like oh he could have had a second guy and like they could have punched me or whatever but like i just had like like it wasn't the laptop itself it was just like everything on my laptop that i needed like all my work so i'd actually just done two berries classes that day and i was at starbucks just working and then like i he took my laptop i sprinted out the door damn girl yeah and i caught him like i would say like a mile mile and a half in so he was sprinting and you were sprinting after him.

30:38And then what happened? I just like lunged myself at his backpack and tackled him. That's insane. I mean, let's go back to some of those days, the scrappy wild days of Vegas. You've done some pretty unhinged things to get by. Tell me about eating for free. Well, there's a few things I did to eat for free. So I would say like, yes, I lived in Vegas and I would just go to the lounge you know i would book a southwest ticket and then you know check in get in cancel a ticket because it's fully refundable and then go eat but like i've also done other things like you know they're like it was a running joke that tech company like you could get free food through like vc funded tech apps so i'd find like all the like you know new food apps that vcs were funding and i would just post my referral code on different like coupon websites and then people would use it because everyone's looking for a discount right and then i would just rack up like literally thousands of dollars in free referral coupon, like free credits, and then just eat for free.

31:37I mean, you've talked about being a really big believer of the fire movement. Do you still want to retire early? Oh, no, not at all. I try retiring. It's so boring. You're never retiring. I don't think I'm ever retiring. Like I can see myself doing different things. Like maybe I like stop building startups. And like, I think VC is actually a more relaxing life. So like maybe I end up doing full time VC. I do a family office. I go into like foundation work. Right. But I think I always need to work because I get happiness off of like my brain running and solving problems like that excites me and gives me like this serotonin adrenaline rush.

32:10And I remember I was like traveling around the world. I was so happy because I love meeting new people, making new friends, learning about new cultures, like seeing how beautiful the world is. Like I like still have a great memories of just like being on top of a mountain by myself and just be like, wow, this is really pretty. But I just like I was lacking that like serotonin, like high I would get from solving problems and I think I need that for the rest of my life so here we are here we are I mean that's priceless that's something you can't buy yeah and so you tried to take a little break after a big liquidity event and you just thought it's not well this is actually not after liquidity event I was like okay I think I have enough to like do I was like a mix between fat fire lean fire like I was like I could be comfortable right only the difference fat fire lean fire lean fire is like retiring off of like very little money and fat fire is retiring off of like more money i guess and like living in a more grand lifestyle but i also like little hacks to live grand lifestyles right so i was like okay like let me just i don't care about where i live so i bought this like 70 000 apartment in the airport yeah it's actually airports two bedrooms two baths yeah i don't know like 2500 square feet it was next to a bunch of homeless people and like there is a hole on the roof now because i think someone broke in and like was living there because I started getting utility bills again.

33:25Wait, this is your hack to live a luxury lifestyle? No, no, no. That was how I was able to reduce my rent costs. I see, I see, I see. Like your main nut. So that could put everything else on my luxurious lifestyle. I see. So live in a shithole and then fall out. And then like, yeah, you could do like Reddit churn, but then also charter your job. Yeah, like, I mean, like, let's say like you wanted to like fly for free first class everywhere, right? just go to the airport lounge and like start being really friendly to every airline employee and someone could list you as a buddy and then you get to fly for free everywhere.

33:59Has that happened to you? Every time I talk to a flight attendant I always make a joke like oh yeah do you want to list me as like your buddy? I'm still trying to get JetBlue right now but yes I have been airline buddies. So they can just list you and you'll get upgraded? Oh so then they can list you and then you could basically fly first class for free yeah because you fly on standby but then you get upgraded to like you book like business right and then you go fly business for how many buddies can they have uh usually a few yeah you can list like your parents buddies um siblings are into getting deals oh i love everything no matter what's in your bank account or what you know it's a running joke in the office that like i love buy one get one free because bogo is the best yeah and like i was telling my friend was asking me like oh how do you discover good restaurants and like oh so I literally go on Uber Eats I click on like the deals I find a BOGO and then I go on Yelp and match the restaurant and dish to see if it looks good and it has good reviews and if so then I try it and if it's good then I go to the restaurant and try other items but I find all my new food through like BOGO deals and do you think that's always going to be the case I think so and the reason I think so is I think that like people that make their money really understand the value of every dollar and then from that they really value when they can save money.

35:14I agree. I had like a small negotiating win with like a vendor that I was so, so excited about. It was like 20 or$30. But like, for me, it just felt like a win or something that, you know, like I was getting for less. Even when I had like a few million, I was still riding Uber pools. And I was using a McDonald's app to save like a dollar or whatever. And my friends thought I was batshit crazy. They're like, dude, your time is more valuable. I can't believe you're still riding uber pools and i'm like well i don't feel like i'm really wasting time like i work on my laptop i'm a great conversation with drivers and the riders so um yeah i think i've always just been someone where i'm like okay like i still like ride what well i try to optimize for whatever's fastest but i also look at like the price difference on uber i'm like okay cool if it's like 30 versus 60 i'm gonna take the 30 ride even have to wait longer but if it's like 30 versus like 40 and the wait time is same like i'm gonna take the uber x over the comfort yeah i mean look There's like the saying that rich people stay rich by acting like they're poor and poor people stay poor by acting like they're rich.

36:17And I think that like if you want sustainability, you know, you can't ball out on everything. Exactly. Maybe you can get anything. You can't get everything. Yeah. Like when I spend money, it's like usually for comfortability or like if I like don't want to like do a bunch of layovers and sit, you know, not a lie flat. I will like consider getting a jet. but otherwise like I prefer just or like if I don't want to be around like because like I'm a girl and I know like you know I'm in a scene so I can always get free tables right but I'm like oh if I'm at a promoter table where I have to talk to a bunch of dudes I don't want to talk to I'd rather just get my own table you go out a lot you as you mentioned have you ever closed a deal at a concert or a rave I have like done diligence on companies at concerts and raves not to my knowledge that I can remember in my head have a close deal because I have an ex who closed a lot of deals at strip clubs and I always wondered like if there was an equivalent for women closing deals no that actually like fascinates me too because I hear this too like where like business men specifically will go to like strip clubs or just like clubs in general and close deals and it was just like so icky to me like what yeah I mean there's also sweat working which I'm sure is up your alley too yep where people are taking like runs or walks while they're having a meeting so they're getting their that being said i will say i think that people there are people that do close deals at music festivals slash raves and i think it's usually like the dj themselves so like let's say you're a dj and you have a venture fund it's just crazy that that's not uncommon yeah it's not it's so common but there are djs adventure funds where like you know they'll be like oh like let us in the deal and like we'll let you backstage like on stage and show you a good time and that work oh fully works yeah because i think like you have these founders who you know they love edm music i think a lot of founders like edm music my hypothesis is that like we were really nerdy growing up we probably went through a depressed phase and the bpm of edm literally opens up the heart chakra and makes you all happy and like joyful right or in your throat chakra too because you're screaming like all the anger and all the whatever pent up stuff you're screaming but you're definitely singing but um yeah i think that like uh then it gets are struck and then that's how i see yeah it's by screaming but it's but it's true and also sports too which is why you know a lot of deals get done for like court side tickets or like getting into you know minority stakes of yes teams and stuff yeah because i do think yeah it's like yeah i actually think sports is probably where like a lot of people do deals too i can see that at games now like we take people out to games when we're like trying to like not close deals but um build relationships, like stronger relationships.

38:59Do you think there's a stigma around people who work hard, play hard? So I think the world is very sexist. And I think the stigma only exists with women. And I say this because I'm biased. Like, am I salty that I have this stigma? Like, yes, I think that people are like, Oh, she's a party girl, whatever, she doesn't work. And I'm like, I'm just awake more hours in the day than you. And I actually am in the office longer than you. And on my laptop longer than you, I wake up earlier than you, I sleep later than you. I'm sorry that you did not get born with a gene where you can't like you need your full eight hours of sleep like that's not my fault.

39:29Do you have that like the gene that you don't require sleep because that's what I would say according to my eight sleep like I have pretty high recovery even when I sleep like five hours I would say I was a lot stronger younger like younger I could do three hours and be fine now I was like five hours I feel great but if I'm on four I'm like I'm not happy. I'm really not happy on four. But all the like guys in tech I know, like they're party animals. Like I, they're crazy. I think there are like a bunch of public examples out there. You know that like, you know, their tea has been spilled, but also privately, like ones that you don't hear about as much.

40:07Like they are doing everything possible, imaginable. They're out at 4 a.m. on Tuesday nights slash mornings, I guess. And nothing. Nobody says a thing. I was so surprised by this. When I lived in New York, I saw it more. You know, like guys would be out, guys more, 4 o 'clock, whatever. Yeah. Then going running in the morning and then like to work. I mean, I feel like there are some people that are just superhuman. Oh, yeah. In that way. Now that you're so deep with passes in the creator space, what have you learned about the fees or like where do creators get tripped up by not earning what they what other creators are potentially earning oh my god you've talked about this idea that you know people shouldn't sign these 360 deals with managers yeah so 360 deals are terrible i think i'm learning that like some people have extremely predatory contracts and i can just go through red flags where like let's say a manager takes 20 of a deal but then if the like brand doesn't pay the creator they still owe the manager the money and the manager can collect from them.

41:10That's some of the more predatory things I've seen. I've seen like managers quite literally steal money from creators where the creator might be getting offered like$20 ,000, but the manager only gives like$5 ,000 out of that$20 ,000 or like they keep all the upside in the deal. And I think like my main problem with the industry though, is that they think very short term and I think Hollywood is very like cash hungry. So they're not thinking about like the long term of a creator. and it might even be like how agencies are structured right like you have to get let's call it a million dollars a quarter in like brand deals for creators so it's not yeah yeah the quota so they're not thinking about the equity upside for creators which i think really matters just for like both long-term generational wealth but also like when companies are giving create or like when companies are using creators right like they're betting that the creator is going to be cheaper than like any other marketing spend they can do and that's because creators don't have the typical customer acquisition costs when they promote a brand because they have followers that convert better than ads.

42:11So I really do wish that like this equity component were included. So creators can like certain creators might actually just, you know, bet on themselves and then like take equity in a company like Alex Girl with like Sip Marks, right? Like she like bet on herself with equity. And I think you're seeing a lot of creators do this both with like, you know, incubating brands with other companies, or like taking profits from like an entire line. I don't know why managers wouldn't just utilize the same percentage for the equity. Like if you got, you know, a point or whatever, like couldn't they take 20 basis?

42:44Yeah, so they could. I think that it's not valued in Hollywood. The ones that really do value it got burned from it before. So I've met a few, you know, like influencers, celebrities whose agents like turned down the equity deal for them and then they lost like hundreds of millions and then they're like, oh, fuck, like we need to change this. Those are actually the people that I've met that ended up creating their own companies. And then they're now worth hundreds of millions. But I think once you realize the power of equity, you really value it. But because most people never really understand it because they didn't like – you never really understand it because you lose it, right?

43:22And then you're like, crap, that FOMO hits. and to be clear the 360 deals are basically where they're commissioning off stuff that they didn't book for you oh yeah so like so many people are in these 360 deals where um even if like you started your own brand and you were making money from it and your agent had nothing to do with it or your manager had nothing to do with it they still take that 20 yeah and I have friends that like have music managers and all that manager does for them is music and they take 20 from everything else they do which is super unfair and like their manager's argument is like well we're making you bigger through music.

43:55So we deserve 20 % of everything you do. But I just like, I don't think that's fair. It's all right. There's this old South Park skit that's like, I'm sure the writers were pissed at their agents are like, we have if you have all the talent, do all the deals, make all the connections will be the best agents in the world. If you if you just handle everything. Yeah, I mean, I've gotten myself into bad situations with agents and managers it it's hard and and i think that i didn't realize early on but i did later when i had some weird stuff happen for with agents that tried to commission stuff that they didn't do like i fought back with them and so i think sometimes creators think that just because they get a bill like they have to pay it or just because they got like a scary yeah and the better ones will like negotiate but there are some that like immediately jump into lawsuits which is not great.

44:45Not today. Yeah. I had a friend that their agent was collecting their money for it on their behalf and like sending it to them, but also handling their like rent, their bills, et cetera. And then he found out his agent was stealing money when the landlord called him. It was like, you haven't paid rent in three months. Yeah. I hate that. Yeah. It's crazy. With passes, I know you have said that there will be a unicorn creator. Will that happen in 2026? I don't think it'll happen in 2026. I'm going to be honest. Like, I think that like, if I can make a unicorn creator in the lifespan of this company, I'd be very happy.

45:15So like, let's call it like the next 10 years before it goes public or like it gets acquired. But we are starting to like incubate some brands. So I'm excited. If somebody wants to be a creator or join passes, what's the process like? And if somebody is like, now just waking up to the idea that maybe a creator lifestyle or career is for them? Do you think it's ever too late? I never think it's too late, especially now with like TikTok and Instagram reels, discovery has become a lot easier so you can gain followers pretty quickly and i think there's just like certain scripts you can do to gain followers i always tell people like the best way to gain followers would probably just do like a part 10 series and you know write a script or copy one of the scripts on tiktok um the difference between followers and fans though like it there is a pretty key difference and that's like are they interested in you as a person right like do they want to stalk you talk about you outside of like your tiktok and instagram comments and that's actually what we evaluate when we see if someone will do well on passes or not like are you being talked about on reddit discord channels telegram groups forums etc because that means that you have like real fans or like are like fan pages making videos and like collages of you versus like just interaction on your page because it's so easy to comment like so hot so pretty haha that was funny but like real fans go one step above right so i would do like a 10 part series and then like start doing live streams to showcase your personality like throw in a random videos also that showcase your personality to like become an influencer and then to join passes really simple process you just apply and we review your application check you're a real human and then we accept you and then depending on like how many followers you have or like what your earning potential is we'll have someone in the company reach out and like really hold your hand while setting up your profile and like setting up launch day etc so when if you join you then get a lot of monetization tools yeah where did you see the system was broken around monetization for creators yes i would say it was probably around covid it was at the same time i got really frustrated about like brand deals and equity because i had a lot of creator friends and i was like why are you guys not taking equity in these companies guys and over covid i had a lot of friends where they're like brand deals kind of dried up and then around the same time patreon raised at a$4 billion valuation.

47:29And I was like, holy shit, like, there's probably something here. And I looked at monetization tools they had. And it was pretty bare bones at the time. Sorry, Patreon, you guys have done a really good job improving. So I was like, okay, great. Like I genuinely when I look at like what tech companies to build, I think that the best tech companies are when there's a stagnant product that's lacking innovation, right? Like startups do better than these like large companies, like Google, Facebook, etc. Like they're able to come in because they're able to move faster. So I saw an opportunity to like move faster and build more tools for creators to monetize.

48:00And I think we're also thinking of it very differently than Patreon where Patreon's entire motto is like brand deals aren't paying you enough. So monetize with your fans and like have consistent income. And ours is like have that but then build generational wealth. That's the approach of like how we've taken it and how we're thinking about the 360 of the company. What do you think the future of the creator economy is? I think the future of the creator economy is that it's going to grow for sure. When you talk to kids these days, like they all want to become creators. I think that's a good sign that it is growing.

48:29I think that people are going to care a lot less about just like how many followers you have, what engagement you even have. And it's going to be more based off of like, how can you convert? Right. So people are going to like start measuring like super fan communities, because I think it is like a direct correlation to like, will this person be able to actually influence product sales? And then I think AI is actually going to have a much larger influence than people think. I don't believe in AI creators because fans are emotionally attached to creators, right? And there is no emotional attachment when it comes to an AI creator.

49:01You can't really relate to their life. You don't get excited to see who they're dating, etc. Because it's just not real. That being said, I can see for certain brand deals, it might make more sense to license out your likeness to a brand versus having to like fly out for a week, set up a production studio and have to have makeup artists, like video editors, et cetera. Like AI is going to be much cheaper at doing that. And as long as you don't dilute your brand, so you don't work with like a hundred different brands, like you're going to be able to get paid relatively the same. I think that like, yes, you'll make less, be able to work with more brands and expand your time, scale your time, but like, you'll have more time to now reinvest into your content and like interacting with your fans and growing an even larger fan base.

49:46What would you just say to somebody asking for a friend who's nervous about showing more of their personal life? Like, do you think that that's a necessary ingredient to becoming successful now? I think you either have to share a lot of knowledge and people will like latch on to knowledge, right? Which is why all these like finance podcasts and like TikTok, etc. do so well because they're like, oh, I learned something. Let me follow and continue to learn things. I think you can be successful off of creating like storylines and scripts so like you know those like mini tv series on tiktok um those do well because that's entertainment um and then you can be successful off of like being very personable but i think being personable is one of the most important things if you want to build a brand because if you like do these like for example like there's a lot of like actors and actresses out there right but like not all of them are going to be able to build a killer brand because you might be a star in a movie but like if you're not personable like no one really cares about you and I think like I'm like trying to think of examples I don't really want to like you know throw anyone down but like there's creators with like tens of millions or hundreds of millions of followers that like can't convert at all because like they might have that and they might have great engagement because they're hot or whatever but like no one really cares about what they're saying versus like Taylor Swift right like people are obsessed with her because her songs are so relatable she's like made it a point to interact with their fans, et cetera.

51:10Like people love her. Myself included. Yes. I think that's like probably the North Star of. She's a North Star of like fan obsession. Super fan. What do you think the big trends are for this year? I know like Gary V talks a lot about live shopping being the next live streaming. Where do you see it going? Live shopping, yes, that's going to be a trend. I think these other things, like I want to say like creators using more AI tools to create content or like selling their likeness or licensing not their likeness, et cetera. But at the end of the day, I actually think AI tool adoption is gonna be a lot slower than we expect amongst the creator community because everyone, like we have that like new AI actress pop up, right?

51:52And everyone's freaking out. I think it's going to explode once creators realize and like everyone in the creative industry realizes like AI is not going to replace them. But at the moment, yeah, I'm curious. I guess like one like consumer trend I think is going to happen is um and i don't know if it's gonna be 2026 or 2027 but i think it will happen relatively soon is vertical movies and tv shows explain so off streamers yeah so right now everything is horizontal right like when you watch a movie it's horizontal etc etc i think we're gonna get like full-length films um and i think netflix will adopt this too like broken up of like yeah i think it'll be like part base i think that we're going to see like maybe interactive movies and tv shows and videos but I fully think that it's gonna go from like a horizontal format to a vertical format you've been on a lot of shows what do you wish somebody asked you but didn't I don't know it'd probably have to be like more of like my crazy like lifestyle like things I do for fun I guess like um I think that I'm like interesting in the sense like I have no sense of fear at all so like you know my skydiving license I ride electric long boards I have my scuba diving license i like went nighttime diving without ever being trained apparently very dangerous my motorcycle license yeah i guess like i just uh i think i have a lot of outside interests outside of like business i think i'm like very multi-hyphenate like very different personality types because of that yeah i mean when we assess like in the finance world risk like you look at those factors too so it's not just like risk tolerance within what you feel like the stock market is going to do it's like would you go to guy diving I mean you exude risk tolerance yeah so like 360 in all aspects yeah of your life and for because of course we're at money rehab have you felt like you needed money rehab or made financial mistakes that you can help advise others not to make?

53:57I would say my main financial mistakes I have personally made are buying apartments because you don't own the land. So like it almost never goes up, right? And then you have to pay a fucking HOA fee. So I would say this because like this is probably like does relate to the audience. Like you always want to buy a single family home. So you own the land. Very rarely are you going to make money on an apartment after you like, you know, have property taxes. And then when you resell it, you like, you know, have to pay a real estate agent fees, etc etc almost always like a house is going to be a better investment i can't even think of an apartment i looked at where it would have made me money i should maybe there's one in new york but at the end of the day like hoa fees are also uncontrollable they can always rise like my ho fees hoa fees literally over doubled after being promised they wouldn't and then there's just so many rules like you don't want that so single family homes only but also when you buy a single family home like you really have to hold it for a while otherwise you're probably going to lose money on it and i think that like above a certain price point it's just not worth it like i think that like my la house i'm actually going to lose money on why maybe look at like the historicals of like la mansions over the last like decade they don't really go up in price it's like pretty flat lined i'd say not to mention that like the larger the house the more problems it has like it breaks every single day and so do my friends houses that are large like that's just a problem with large houses.

55:23And then like, then you need to get a house manager that you didn't like, you know, factor into the cost. It's just a mess. I think that like anything like 5 million and under, if the historicals look good, you can make money off of it. Amazing. But like when you start going higher and higher, like you kind of buy the house knowing that you're going to lose money. Not to mention that like now you're locking up money because even if you do get a mortgage, you're still having to put a down payment on, right? That like that money could be reinvested elsewhere like renting from what i found is actually almost always cheaper i always see all the other clothes going like home ownership like key to freedom etc and then like i think you really need to do more research on like what kind of apartment or house are you looking at like what's the area what the historicals look like the last 10 years and then factor in other costs like maintenance costs property taxes etc insurance because i would actually argue most of the time you're saving money renting.

56:20I argue that all the time. We argue that on this show a lot. Because if you look at actually just the numbers, it's not a good investment. Maybe you're getting the home because it's like an emotional thing or stability. Like I saw my house foreclosed on when I was a kid. So like maybe I want a home or something like that, which is just as valuable and just as important. But it's a different conversation than a strictly financial investment conversation. because it's growing four and a half percent year over year, which is less than putting your money in VOO. Exactly. Okay, so we talked about a mistake or a misconception in finance.

56:55We end our episodes by asking for a final tip that listeners can take straight to the bank. Is there something that you would suggest financially? I just have such like different risk tolerance where I like prefer going all in versus playing it slow and easy. um so like for example like if i had only 100 000 i'd probably just be like okay let's just put it in like amazon and call it a day and like close my eyes blindly because like you're really like if you're gonna just go with the s &p like yeah it grows like you're never gonna make a lot of fucking money versus if you go all in on something you have the opportunity to make a lot of money i mean higher risk higher reward right exactly like it goes in parallel so i guess for me my financial advice it would be really different between on someone's risk tolerance so i'm the type of person that really does go all in which is you know why did startups right like i left the multi-million dollar job to be able to like to have the like one percent chance like less than one percent chance of building a unicorn and like it worked um that being said i think that like the smarter piece of advice would probably be like put maybe 70 of your money into smp because it's always gonna grow in return it does beat like every hedge fund when you look at like it long term and then maybe put the other 30 % in riskier investments whether it's Bitcoin whether it's like your friend's company that you really believe in I think if you are very specifically if you are deciding to go all in on a startup hoping that you'll succeed what I would personally do is like I hate to say it but like there's a reason why in VCs like people do follow like it's like we're considered cheap and like we follow tier one VCs because they do make the best judgments and have like the best calls at the end of the day so um if you like see a company that like let's call it went through ycominator and sequoia invested in them and like it's in the ai space and the founders like you know went to mit chances are like worst case scenario they'll get acqui-hired and you're still going to make a return and a pretty good return so just put the hundred thousand in there like put your other thirty thousand in there and call it a day close your eyes if you have your risk tolerance.

59:02And you mentioned, you know, like being in corporate, if somebody works at a snap type company, or if they're offered, you know, some equity package, where do you see mistakes made around that or like knowing what that should be like options? What are the questions that you should be asking? So what I've seen is a lot of people just get a dollar amount of like, this is how many RSUs you're getting, but you're not understanding like, okay, at what valuation, how many shares is this actually which isn't great other times you'll get like you know an offer saying okay you have like 2 ,000 shares but you don't really know what the value of those shares are and you should always ask these things to clarify so you know like an exact amount of like how much you're actually getting and then outside of that I think a big mistake I see is that like if you're at a startup that's not public yet just take the lower salary like I'm gonna assume if you're at a startup and you probably are younger and you don't need the like safety net of a larger salary like you don't have kids to feed and if you do have kids to feed and you're joining a startup chances are you are already successful and have a savings and you decided to finally take some risk in your life so I always say like as long as you're like below a series like c like series c and below take the larger equity package well one of our most popular episodes actually was understanding private company equity and like asking those questions about how many shares are outstanding or like liquidation preferences or stuff like that because they think you know to clarify yes equity can be better but it's not always and it's also never like always gonna you know hit the moon or whatever because they think they see and you'll see your strike price if you're getting shares etc you mentioned putting it 30 potentially in riskier assets like bitcoin what's your latest take on crypto like how much crypto do you have i actually have no crypto no yeah so i mean i had some crypto and then i forgot i don't know where wallets passcodes are so i now have no crypto and like for the one you get bitcoin at like 100 or something yes i got bitcoin at 100 when i was in high school but then i've had wallets i don't even know where my wallets are anymore um it's funny because i always see people trying to hack my coinbase and like i have nothing in there you don't have to go with my coinbase um yeah and then i you can't get it back no no i just um like i made a bunch of different metamask wallets and i'm like whatever but i never really had that much like and i did recently i was really stupid here but like i downloaded this app called moonshot and i was like oh like meme coin investing let's try this and i was making so much money on meme coins and then i got a text going like i was literally running on a treadmill and it's like okay put all your money in rizmas right now and i was like whatever right like it was gambling for me and like i said i was like i was willing to go all in so i put all my crypto and rizmas anyways it tanked went to zero so now you're out yeah i'm out but who knows maybe rizmas will pop up this christmas