A bit of jiggery-pokery on the carpet makes a big difference

0:00Your heart can tell you a lot about your health. Apple Watch Series 12 measures your heart rate every five seconds with the most advanced heart rate sensing in an Apple Watch. So your vitals app, now with heart rate variability, could tell you when something is off. And your readiness score can let you know when to rest and when to push. Hear the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch Series 12. For general wellness purposes only, not intended for clinical use or to detect, diagnose, monitor or treat medical conditions. requires iPhone 11 or later. ActiveCampaign is the marketing automation platform built for big swings and big dreams with intelligent suggestions powered by AI and your data.

0:40Generate ideas in seconds, import your brand and create full campaigns with simple prompts. Send personalized messages backed by real-time feedback, smart segmentation and effortless reporting that tracks every win. Let's redefine what's possible together. Get started for free at ActiveCampaign.com.

1:25to you and unlimited dosage changes as needed. It's weight loss designed to work with your life. Ready to reach your goals? Visit 4hers.com slash eligible to get personalized affordable care that gets you. That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash eligible. 4hers.com slash eligible. Weight loss by HERS is not available in all 50 states. Wegovi is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk AS. To get started and learn more, including important safety information, Wegovi clinical study information and restrictions, visit ForHers.com.

2:09So we're on. Yes. Such a shock to me. I had no idea we were doing a podcast, let alone visualizing it. Welcome. How are you? I'm very well. Well, it's because we're in just such a home-from-home environment, aren't we? Aren't we just? Yeah, well, we kind of are. It's lovely to have everybody listening in and watching in. So we're very grateful to you for putting up with the visualisation. If you're enjoying it, let us know. We'd love to hear from you on that. It's jaydenfee at times.radio. And what is going on here? Well, this is Knitted Nancy. So this is from the Greyhound Trust on the Isle of Wight.

2:46Do you remember, they very kindly sent in Brindle Nancy because they had done basically, I want to call it a tray bake. It wasn't a tray bake of greyhounds, but they'd made lots of these lovely little greyhounds. They'd knitted them and they were displayed on the Instagram. Somebody was holding a tray and I saw Nancy in there and rather boldly, I think I said, would it be possible to have one of those? The Greyhound Trust does marvellous work for the retired greyhounds. Well, I'm very glad you asked because there is an act of parliament to protect retired greyhounds. And in fact, you don't ever have a greyhound yourself.

3:25You can't buy a greyhound who has been retired from racing. The retired racers go to the Greyhound Trust and you adopt from the Greyhound Trust for life. So in all intents and purposes, you know, Nancy is very much belonging to us in our family, but I got her through a kennels that is affiliated to the Greyhound Trust as a really, really wonderful way of rehoming ex-racers. I cannot stand the Greyhound racing industry. Can I just... Sorry about that, everybody. For new joiners, new joiners, did Nancy ever race? Yes, she did, and she was hopeless at it. So you can always find out your Greyhound's racing pedigree because they will have tattoos in their ears, which is their racing mark, so they've all got a number.

4:11so you can go back and find how your dog did. Nancy wasn't called Nancy. She was called Hey Ma. I know, as in H-E-Y, new word, M-A. Hey Ma. Anyway. I hear that expression quite a lot. Yes. I wouldn't name a dog after. No, it's horrible. Yes, it's a bit weird. And she's not a Hey Ma. Not a Hey anything. No. So she's definitely our Nancy. She started lots of races and then didn't finish them. And I love that because I think she got halfway around the track and just went, no, bollocks, not doing this, and went back and had a lie down, which is what she's immensely good at in the domestic environment.

4:51But she did stay in the kennels quite a long time because she's got a really exceptional, gentle nature and she wet nursed quite a lot of other litters. So I think she really, really gave of herself that dog. Oh, well, thank goodness she's had a long and happy retirement with you. Yes, seriously. She was also very glad to see us. she'd only recently been spayed when we got her and she was six years old so that's quite rare as well in the racing world I know lots of people really enjoy watching greyhound racing I know lots of trainers and kennels probably look after the dogs incredibly well but for me personally I don't I don't want to watch a sport where money is being made out of animals I'm not a big fan of the horse racing either and so many greyhounds get injured in the races and there has definitely been a feeling in the past in certain parts of greyhound racing that there's a dispensability about the dogs you know there are thousands of them and they're not as expensive as racehorses are and lots of them on the bend going round they race so tightly together their legs get caught up and stuff like that.

6:00I just don't like it, Jane. That's a very long explanation of the dolls. Sorry about that. Just one more quick question. How long did it take Nancy to get used to being called Nancy? Oh, well, she was called Nancy in the Kennels. Oh, I see. The Kennels had renamed her. So she was Nancy when she came to us. And then when we looked up her numbers, we found out all of the other stuff and what she had been called. So, yeah, I don't know who named her Nancy, but they got it spot on because she is definitely. It's a very nice name. I've always liked that. Yes. Yeah. Oh, well, no knitted Dora. Oh, yes.

6:34What am I saying? We've got plenty of representations of Dora. How is Dora? I've got the Dora doorstop still very much at home. In fact, I think Caroline was the lady who made Dora the, no, that was, anyway, Dora the doorstop lives by my fireplace. She isn't actually big enough to hold open my huge doors at Garvey Towers. That would be difficult. It would be difficult. The double doors to the throne room, all of it. They're usually opened by a butler. Yes. I mean, he will insist on having every single day off. So sadly, I haven't seen him now for about 20 years. But yes, she's very proudly sitting by the fireplace.

7:11For some reason, I'm struggling with the word fireplace. Is it a real fire? It is a fireplace, isn't it? Do you have a real fire in there? No, I don't. I have a coal effect gas fire. Lovely. It is lovely, yes. Is it a good effect? Well, in the sense that it looks a bit like a fake coal fire. Yes, absolutely. Do you know, the very thought of putting on anything like that, we were just saying, weren't we, we've had the longest summer in living memory. And am I right in saying you wanted to carry on a little bit longer? Well, I like this temperature. So in London at the moment, it's about 24. 24.

7:43Yeah. So this I find absolutely adorable. Yes. And I am hoping, I'm trying to look on the bright side of life here because I think it's been a... Don't do that. A cataclysmic summer for so many people. And, you know, if this is our coldest summer of the future, then we have entered the fourth circle of hell. Okay, yeah. But in trying to look on the bright side, isn't there a possibility that actually all of this sunshine and the vitamin D that we have had might make us more well, weller? Is that a word? Well, I think that's a... Are you just reaching into your medical bag to discuss this, to put this theory forward?

8:22Nursing Sister Glover, currently on the ward. Little Nurse Nancy, I remember her, from my Judy magazine. Please someone ask her for her ID. Oh, okay. This is just a theory. Well, so you're saying we'll have banked all that vitamin D. It's got to make us feel like it's not such a long, horrendous winter. It's a good point, actually, just to mention that we have one of the Van Tullican twins on the podcast this week. zand van tuliken has written a book about wellness and supplements and i think people are going to find it very interesting i cannot hear enough i cannot hear enough deep on wednesday yeah of the ridiculous assertions being made by so many people about the value of supplements at the moment well it's not just that it's this nutty anti-aging stuff and we did briefly reference that last week with the weighted blankets and the endless is it how many times a night does that man have an erection well i don't know presumably what's the average i can't remember probably i think he publishes his data and that's not a euphemism unfortunately uh so i'm sure we could find out but i'm never going to i don't want that on my google search well he's at the extreme end of all this isn't he i think it's brian johnson it is brian johnson but but it's also fair to say that people are making a fat wedge out of recommending all sorts of stuff.

9:43Yeah. And anyway, the good Van Tullican doctor, and he is a doctor, is debunking all that pretty successfully. So we'll find out. And he's got quite a big chapter on the menopause and the sorts of stuff that women are now encouraged to chuck down their gullets, which frankly may be doing literally nothing at all. Well, I think in some cases... And that's the best it might do. Yeah, in some cases I'm sure it does harm. Harm, exactly. Do you know what, I'm very interested in the language also that's being used because I've recently returned to Instagram and I've had an absolute full force of that menopausal supplement stuff being shown to me.

10:20Endless people telling me what to do about my belly fat. Obviously somewhere I am front-footing the world with belly fat. I didn't realise I was doing this. It's literally the year that you were born. That's why they're pummeling you with belly fat. she's 57 she's got belly fat here we go anyway endless supplements telling me how i can lose my belly fat and it's not apparently it's not what i'm eating or how much i'm exercising it's cortisol and then i can buy this special monthly you have to buy something yep i can buy something okay it's a combination of 30 herbs and minerals and supplements that's going to cure me but the thing that interests me because obviously i'm not going to buy that kind of shit uh is is the way that they word the recommendation.

11:03So a lot of the adverts now say things like trusted by 26 ,000 women. And you think that's not recommended. That's not, it's been proven to work with. What does that mean? It's being used by. Well, I don't say that somebody, that's a clever question that 26 ,000 women have been asked. You know, do you trust this brand or what does this brand mean to you? that they've managed to then throw back as trusted by 26 ,000 women. And also you think, well, maybe they're not very nice women. Maybe I shouldn't trust these particular... Maybe they're a bit gullible. Maybe they're a bit untrustworthy themselves.

11:43But you know what I mean? It's so written in code in order to make us believe. And it's snake oil. It was always snake oil and it always will be. You say snake oil and you've just reminded me of a well-known politician. I just want to draw attention. I love this. No woman would have even attempted this as an excuse to try to wheedle their way out of something that they are accused of. And everybody will know who I'm talking about, the British politician who is claiming that he simply wasn't listening in a meeting and therefore he can't be accused of getting up to anything. And no one, certainly, I mean, it's all alleged and it's denied and absolutely all above board, nothing to see here, mate.

12:25I just didn't hear it. I didn't hear it, Jane. This is a chap who honestly believes that he might be fit to run the country. And I just wonder if he's chairing a Cobra meeting, will he be listening? Or will he actually have just, you know what, I'd rather just focus on my oysters and my champers. I won't focus. I mean, please, we don't need to mention his name, but please don't tell us you weren't listening. And that's the reason you're not guilty of anything. But the other thing, the other thing, because he is asking a lot of people to trust him with their futures. He's too right. And he decided that the people who had worked alongside him, very loyal and trusted, confident and accomplices on his political journey, suddenly turned into contractors.

13:08Yeah, well, yes, I've been a contractor. I think I still am. Just wow. Wow. Get you. Can we bring in Ellie? Feel the love. We were talking about health. Hi, both. I've got a favour. Can you please stop apologising for treating COVID a little seriously? It is more serious than a cold. Well, we're not apologising. And I think we were we apologising for treating COVID seriously? I don't think I mean, you've had it five times. Yes, neither of us want to do anything other than treating it seriously. No, that's that's the point. So Ellie, I hear what you're saying. I get it. We shouldn't apologise for treating it seriously.

13:45Fee's had it quite a few times and has suffered. I've only had it twice now and I've only just getting over it now. and I can still just about feel it somewhere in my system. And I was just saying to Fee earlier, the underestimated long tail of COVID is that you feel really depressed. And I'm not normally, I'm very much a glass is half full approach to life person. Just my own good fortune that that's my kind of chemistry, if you like. I did feel really low last week and that's COVID. Makes you feel shit. You don't want it. We're going to get the jab as soon as it's available. So I think the COVID jab is available at the moment.

14:21It's the flu jab that won't be available until October. Oh, well, I'll get them both at the same time. Yeah, because they're trying to do the rollout aimed at vulnerable groups, which actually you would qualify for. Oh, very much. Yes, I would. And there's no shame in that. She does say, firstly, if I have any fever or razor throat, I always take a test. I do keep a few at home at all times for this very purpose. Yeah, Ellie, there's no shame in that either. I've got tests at home. If you have a vulnerable person in your family, you should have the tests. And also, if you've got it, you probably don't want to go on public transport in the first five or six days because why do you want to give it to anybody else?

14:59It's bloody awful. I do wish that we had allowed the pandemic to change our attitude towards the spread of germs, Jane. Well, it did for a while. Yeah, but it just strikes me as ridiculous that we immediately wanted to dispense with things like wearing masks and washing our hands and using hand sanitiser. You know, we're about to enter a season of flu and COVID again. I think New Zealand has had a very bad season, hasn't it, of flu. Australia, not so bad. That's what we base our own predictions for this season on. But you just look around on the tube of everyone already coughing and sneezing and, you know, wiping their hands on handrails and all that kind of stuff.

15:45and you just think we were doing something really sensible that prevented the spread of germs. Why aren't we carrying on doing that? Good sense just doesn't catch on. But what is it? Turns out that's not contagious. Is it because we feel it's kind of making us weaker than we want to show that we are? Why wouldn't we be logical about it? Some people like to butch up in the face of a virus, don't they? Well, good luck to them. I know, think about the rest of us. The wards were full of people who didn't expect to have COVID and many of them were butched up. and then they didn't make it through. So I just find it bizarre.

16:19I'll probably be wearing my mask again on the tube by the middle of October, Jane. So who else have we got this week? We've got Zand Van Tullican talking about supplements. And we've got Sir Paul Smith talking about a life in threads. A life in threads too. Is he a fashion designer? He is. For gents, well, it's interesting you say that, Jane. I wish I'm on form. because in his memoir, he does talk about his foray into women's wear and it became successful, not as successful as the men's wear. He's very interesting about his reluctance to design for the female form. Oh, what does he say? Well, he basically says that he himself likes the female form in an androgynous style.

17:03So he didn't really want to understand curves and the necessary tailoring around, you know, big bosoms and darts everywhere and larger hip ratios and that kind of stuff. And I thought it was a very interesting admission because the world of fashion has been dominated by the need for the women as models to be almost male in their body shape for a very long time. and that's often attributed to the massive success of some gay designers. So I thought it's interesting that Paul Smith can go on the page. I don't even know. Is he heterosexual or is he? He is heterosexual. Interestingly married to Pauline.

17:45What are the chances? What are the chances? What would be the male equivalent if you were going to find a man? Find a Jane. A Jane. What is the male equivalent? Well, Jane is, it's Sinead, it's Sian, they're the same name. It means gift of God. Of course it does. What is the male equivalent? I don't know. I can't think of it. It's not James, is it? No. Well, we'll never know. Or at least neither of us know. I tell you what, here's Claire who says she's been a contestant on Mastermind. Oh, Claire. She might know. Yeah. It was filmed in the June of 2021 when my son was six months old. God, that was a bold.

18:25What a fantastically brave thing to do, Claire, at that point. We travelled to Belfast with my mum, who the production company also paid for, and I breastfed him in the room when everyone has to be filmed, listening to the rules being read out. Gosh, it's quite strict, isn't it? My specialist subject was Bess of Hardwick. Sorry. And I came last overall. But I was very pleased. Who is Bess of Hardwick? I was looking to you for illumination. I'm going to say a Thomas Hardy character, but I'm not sure. No, not Thomas Hardy. I think Elizabethan and of some relevance at the Elizabethan court. Claire says, I came last overall, but I was very pleased with my score considering I'd barely had a wink of sleep in the previous six months.

19:12Sitting in the big black chair was frankly a relaxing break and Clive was lovely. That's Clive Myrie. Love to the whole team. Great to have you all back together. Claire, thank you very much. It is lovely to be back, actually, with everybody in situ. And, yes, I mean, just sitting in the chair and answering questions about Bess of Hardwick, I mean, it makes a change. It would be a welcome break. Yeah, it really would be a welcome break. I wonder whether or not you did regret that, whether you had booked it before you had the baby and it was one of those things where you thought, oh, I'll be fine to do that.

19:42Yeah. I mean, we've all done that, haven't we? And, in fact, I saw Kate Moss, the fantastic founder of the women's... Kate Mossy. I always think that's what I'd say to myself. at a lovely function on Thursday night. And I chaired the Women's Prize for Fiction the year that my daughter was born, my second child. I agreed to it when I only had one child. I had absolutely no idea what was coming around the corner. Because when you have more than one, you just have no downtime, do you, at all? Because you're just always juggling. It goes up by the power of, doesn't it, I think, probably with every child you have.

20:17And I was just saying, if I'd actually known what was coming around the corner, I wouldn't have agreed to oversee the reading of... 120 books. Right, oh shit. Actually, we've had an email about a number of books that someone's read, and I couldn't believe the number they claim to have read this year. Oh, well, this is Melanie in Chichester. She's read 82 books so far this year. Melanie, how? I've memorised this email. How? Well, that's more than one... Well, it's two books a week, isn't it? Because we're barely into week 37 or something now. Yes, it is a lot. How many books do you think you're on a year, including the ones that you read for work?

20:52Oh, the ones I read for work, but then I don't include those really. Because it's a bit skim reading, isn't it? I call it speedy reading, darling. Okay. And speedy reading of non-fiction is much easier than speedy reading of fiction. Oh, I don't think you can speedy read fiction. You can't actually, can you? No. So I would say how many books? I would say I'm probably on over the course of, probably on about 60 books a year. Outside of work? Oh, no, not outside of work. No, okay, including those. No, no, no. And if you took work out of the equation, I know that gives you the collywobbles and you effectively turn into the human equivalent of a jellyfish.

21:26Yes. There's no bones or brain at all. But let's imagine... Let's look forward to that. Let's imagine a Morphous Chain without the working background. How many books do you think that you would want to read? How many will I read in my dotage, my real dotage? Yeah. I think maybe, gosh, whilst I'm able, I would hope to read maybe one a fortnight, realistically proper proper books want a fortnight i don't because i don't i don't want to rush through books i love that's the thing isn't it and and actually i i will look forward to a time when i'm not reading so much because i miss that i'll just read when i want to and you know sometimes you're just really really in the mood for reading like it just sinks way deeper into you than other times and it's not always you know when you're on a sun lounger and you know you imagine that you've created space for reading sometimes it's it'll be in the strangest times and places won't it and I miss that where where where are these strange times and places well I do remember you know just going back actually to when the the kiddies were tiny I found it incredibly difficult to read fiction actually when the kids were tiny because I just couldn't really remember of the plot or characters or whatever but i do remember occasionally you know there'd be a kind of half an hour when they were both having a a nap or actually sometimes when i took them to actividados and you'd be surrounded by people activities okay and you know they'd be off doing whatever it was that they were doing yeah and you'd be in a very noisy sports hall and you could sneak a moment yes but it was like deep reading shut off the rest of the world and deep read so I'm with you I actually thought that you'd say you'd read more because you do I always think of you as being a voracious reader well do you know I don't think I will no no I'll have the housework as well and yesterday I attempted a little bit and also the pleasure parlor darling don't forget that well we'll be open for business a bit of DIY yesterday I I titivated some of my outdoor window frames and I titivated well they were gave them breasts they were just looking a little bit weathered and so I got what I thought was the appropriate size brush and just try I got the right paint you know out exterior woodwork yeah and just started well this would be a piece of and quite relaxing just to buff up the window frames outside as the winter approaches because the front of your house wearing overalls should have been the front of your house does take a real battering doesn't it oh it does from the elements and also what are you saying about yourself if you don't keep your front of house really really spiff and spout I I certainly come from a long line of women who did polish their step and no shame in that by the way but I tell you what it turns out that there's actually a bit more to it than I realized perhaps my paint wasn't the right size because quite a lot of paint ended up on the window oh and that would be difficult to get off and it was quite difficult anyway look it turns out professionals are available for this sort of thing but I thought I'd have a go myself and I probably paid the price but never mind just a quick one from anonymous born and raised in Malvern in the 50s 60s and early 70s just to keep Jane tittering.

24:36In the same vicinity as the road she mentioned, Horny Old. Don't forget Cockshot Road. Would that set off childish giggles too? It doesn't have quite the same effect when you've grown up with these odd names and they've just always been there. First message many years ago that I sent to you was completely ignored. But if you'd like to revisit Jane Garvey's bottom gear, just let me know. Okay, thank you very much. Jane Garvey's bottom gear was a documentary I made for somebody else. From the previous. About women and cars. I remember listening to that documentary. Did you enjoy it? Just say yes.

25:11Move on. No, I thought it was one of your better documentaries.

25:19Your heart can tell you a lot about your health. Apple Watch Series 12 measures your heart rate every five seconds with the most advanced heart rate sensing in an Apple Watch. So your vitals app, now with heart rate variability, could tell you when something is off. And your readiness score can let you know when to rest and when to push. Hear the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch Series 12. For general wellness purposes only, not intended for clinical use or to detect, diagnose, monitor or treat medical conditions. Requires iPhone 11 or later. If you felt stuck trying to lose weight, you're not alone.

25:52Enter Weight Loss by HERS. It's designed to support you in reaching your goals. And HERS now offers access to an affordable range of FDA-approved GLP-1 medications, including the Wegovi pill and the Wegovi pen. Even better, with a range of affordable GLP-1 options, HERS makes it simple to find an approach that fits your needs and your budget, if eligible. You'll get a treatment plan personalized to you and unlimited dosage changes as needed. It's weight loss designed to work with your life. Ready to reach your goals? Visit forhers.com slash eligible to get personalized, affordable care that gets you.

26:26That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash eligible. Forhers.com slash eligible. Weight loss by HERS is not available in all 50 states. Wegovi is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk AS. To get started and learn more, including important safety information, Wegovi clinical study information, and restrictions, visit forhers.com. Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most.

27:03Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the U.S. offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability.

27:40And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

28:08now this is this is incoming from kate in brighton who says very long time listener here with a quick note to recommend a tv show i think for you will especially like and perhaps jane perhaps only given that there's been a dearth of good tv lately well i mean that's all about to change isn't it kate says forget vigil there is a show on the you app and the you app is free no subscription required called Dog Park. And apparently it's delightful with a very sweet charm. It's Australian with a dry humour and romantic undertones. Think similar to Colin from Accounts. Perfect for an autumnal Sunday afternoon binge.

28:49Well, thank you very much indeed for that suggestion, Kate. I'm going to go in search of that tonight. In fact, Colin from Accounts is back tonight, I think, isn't it? 10 o 'clock? Well, I think it's available. It's probably on the iPlayer already. and Patrick Bramall, who is Colin from Accounts. No, Colin from Accounts is the dog. He's the bloke who takes on the dog. He is also in an Apple TV series coming your way, I think at the end of next week called Last Seen. Slow Horses is back in a couple of weeks' time too. It's all happening again. And thank God for that, Jane. Yeah, well, I don't have Apple, so none of this affects me.

29:29But thank you for the warning. OK, but you'll be able to watch Colin from Accounts. Well, I will be able to watch that. I mean, I have to be prepared for the conversations I won't be able to join in with at various gatherings where everybody else is talking about box sets they're watching. Yeah. Well, that's most of the conversation of the over 50s these days. I'm very disappointed to hear that you've given up with Vigil. Well, I'm afraid, I don't know, I think it was probably because I'd done the DIY, but at 10 to 10 last night, I found myself completely disengaging from it and just going to bed.

29:55So it is so complicated. It is complicated. So it's not just me. No, it's not just you. Okay. I cannot, for the life of me, keep going. Honestly, it's like playing table football. I just keep having to go back and forth in my head. About who's who. As to why the Russians wouldn't be collaborating with the Norwegians who aren't collaborating with the Chinese who don't want to have anything to do with the Russians and where the British people lie in the middle of all of that. It's just, it's two knockabout political football going on. And then there was this extraordinary scene where the two main characters, who in their real lives away from their detective duties, in vigil, are a couple.

30:42They have two children together. That does baffle me. I'm also, I'm really puzzled by their childcare arrangements, which seem incredible. Well, one of them just said, oh, Granny's here. And that was all that was referred to. Yes, we didn't see her though, did we? We didn't see Granny. She's invisible Granny. I mean, it's quite negligent. Oh, poor Granny. I mean, she's just been left for a very long time while these two are cavorting around the Arctic. She's probably on a cruise somewhere enjoying herself up the Danube. You've got to go back because we've both got to go on a secret mission to the Arctic.

31:09They found themselves stuck in an impending doom-laden snowstorm in the Norwegian tundra and they had to seek shelter in an unheated satellite facility and they were basically, you know, probably in a life-threatening situation, being chased down by people with guns. And they decided at that moment to discuss their domestic arrangements. I did see that they'd had a ding-dong. It didn't feel like the right time. It was the most unconvincing backdrops to a discussion about who was taking on the mental load in the household. Oh, well, that actually leads me. Yes, it should do. Well, thank you, darling.

31:53The production that goes into this, honestly, you wouldn't credit it. There is this article, Why More Women Carry the Mental Load and How Couples Can Share It. Yes. And I was actually wondering, because they are a gay couple at the centre of vigil, and it just illustrates that the mental load is no easier in non-heterosexual relationships. Well, it does seem to suggest that, yes, one person leans into it, Which allows the other person to lean out. So let us know whether you're in a heterosexual or a gay relationship, this mental load thing, is it still a factor? There is no doubt. I mean, I'm in a slightly odd position because I've been a single parent for much longer than I was sharing parenting.

32:36And so I, you know, not that my ex-husband certainly plays a part in the lives of the children who are now in their 20s, I should say. But he wasn't at home for much of their childhood. So I just did it all. I did all the thinking, all the logistics, made all the arrangements, knew who their dentists were, everything that everybody does as a matter of course, went to parents' evenings, booked in things. I'm not complaining, by the way. I did choose to be a parent and I enjoyed it for the most part. But was it a mental load? I'm asking myself, did it feel like a burden or was it just something I did?

33:16Do you think that you are the type of person who would easily have been able to put quite a lot of that stuff onto your partner to do and trust them to do it? And not stand behind them going, have you done it? I don't think I would. Because I think that that does come into play here. And as soon as you say this, there are lots of people who go, don't, that's a terrible trope. And as soon as you say that, you're allowing people to get away with it or whatever. But I think it's natural in lots of parts of your life to feel uncomfortable about letting somebody else do the stuff. I think it's a really, this is the really grey and challenging area.

34:00do some women make it all very territorial and make it all their work and precisely because they don't. It's a bit like the idea of contraception. If a man could take a contraceptive pill, would you trust them to take it? There is no way that I would have willingly given up that role. No, probably not. So that's what makes it complicated. It does make it complicated. But I do acknowledge that for lots of women, it's an absolute knacker to constantly have to be doing all the thinking, particularly if you're, let's say you are married to a man and you have to remember his, I don't know, let's say his relative's birthdays.

34:43Is that up to you then to take that on board, to make that part of your job, to make sure his auntie gets a birthday card? I think the big challenge as well is when you want to reverse the roles. Yeah. So if it has been easier for you to take on that burden when the kids are little and overwhelmingly in heterosexual relationships, it is the woman who does that. That's just borne out by fact, isn't it? When there comes a time in your life and if there comes a time in your life where actually you just think, I'd like to change roles here. Has it been easy for you to do that? I'd be very interested in hearing those stories because I think in countries where more equality has been achieved and certainly in some of the Nordic countries where you have this huge shared parental leave that you can take between when your child is born and I think when they go to secondary school, correct me if I'm wrong.

35:40So there are times when, you know, the mum will then say, kids may be aged five and seven. right you do that you take your parental leave now you do a year here or six months i'm going back to work how does that then flip do you find it easy to just switch off the mental load i would love that you don't stories i bet you don't find it easy yeah i can only imagine but i imagine that you're probably sitting at work thinking yeah but it is it is exhausting jane oh yes it is exhausting And also, I think if you find yourself in a position where you're slightly having to dance around somebody else's inability to see the position you're in, then that's doubly exhausting.

36:27And by that, I mean the instead of, you know, wanting to end up having a row with somebody about how little is being done on the domestic field or how much is being done on the professional field. you're also the one who's just trying to kind of negotiate a better path through. I think that's very, very tired too. And I do know a lot of people in relationships who have been trying to do that as well. This BBC article, and I know it's featured on thetimes.com as well. Thank goodness, Jane, just to make that clear. Thank goodness. Otherwise we'd have to stop for a while. I was going to say that this particular version of the story says that women feel the burden of noticing when the sheets and towels need to be washed.

37:10Don't you think? Okay, so could you reach a state where you just think, I'm just not, I'm right, I'm just not going to do it. So how long could a towel stay in play? Well, what do you think? It's interesting though, Jo, because I think we do end up sometimes doing that with our kids. and you know over a long stretch of a summer holiday uh i you know i i don't think i'm the only one who this morning i just thought just stuff it i'm just going to work yeah bye and you just think somebody will notice eventually that they can't actually get up the stairs because there's just so much stuff that clearly needs to be taken somewhere and hasn't been i just thought no i've got something else to do you are in the bit that the student holidays do go on a hell of a long time we're in september jake anyway neither of their universities start and until another another couple of weeks it's sort of mid-november isn't it and then before you know it uh they've stopped wasn't like that when we were at university i well i don't think we finished as early no this is i remember that my children's university seemed to finish about sort of late may i've went back and looked in my diary and i was still at university in july yes i think we just August and August and a tiny bit of September.

38:28Just went great picking and then went back. I mean, I say that obviously didn't go great picking. What did you do? Nothing. Did you sign on? Yeah. Okay. No condemnation here. Well, I'm not proud of it. Did you work? Yeah, I did work actually. I was having this conversation over the weekend. I worked because I was nervous not to. so I just I was never very good at at the not doing anything at all thing dear well that's where we differ you see because I have to be also just totally honest I'm not proud of the fact that I didn't work um but I'm puzzled by why my parents didn't make me I genuinely don't know how they let me get away with it but it was the it was I doing it was a very accepted thing to sign on but it I didn't make it right.

39:17I should have tried to do something. I'll go back and try and find out what... I've got the diaries at least for one summer when I was a student, so I'll try and find out how I actually filled the time. Margaret says last night, Thursday, she went to Wimbledon Theatre to see The Archers live at 75. I didn't see you, Jane. Well, that's because I wasn't there. I was still getting over my virus. The theatre holds about 1 ,600 people and was almost full. That's good, isn't it? On my way home, I was walking down Wimbledon High Street with a huge crowd of Archers fans. Then I caught the tram to Croydon.

39:51Again, loads of Archers fans, a lot of whom were travelling on to Beckenham, I'm guessing. I just felt so safe. Perhaps this is the way forward to make the streets and public transport safe at night. More theatre and cinema for people of a certain age. Love the show, says Margaret. Margaret, thank you very much. I'd like more from you, actually, on what they did. Would you mind, Margaret, emailing again and just telling us about, I mean, Fee won't be interested, but that doesn't. I will be. I want to know what the Archers Live at 75 was like. Let me know, please. But I'm glad you felt safe. I mean, of course you should feel safe.

40:25I think public transport last thing at night, and I do use it at night, perhaps not last thing at night. I haven't ever really felt unsafe, if I'm honest, but maybe I've just been very lucky. I don't know. Maybe I just don't notice. Yes, I think if you're a regular user, So you probably do end up seeing quite a fair bit of bad behaviour. Oh, yeah, and I wouldn't, and I don't doubt it happens. Yeah. But I guess I just, I've said before, I just refuse to acknowledge that I want to be completely safe living in the place I choose to live. And I simply walk the streets last thing at night because I live here and I feel it's my divine right to walk the streets and I will not be told I can't.

41:09Yeah. No, I know what you mean. I walk a different way home from the tube station at night to what I do during the day, though. Do you? Yes, I do. And sometimes I think, why am I doing this? And more often than not, I think I feel safer. So I take the longer main road. Yes, I need to be honest with everybody and with myself. I probably do choose the well-lit path. And that's just always going to be a fact, I think. Dear Fee and Jane, this email is entitled, adventures as catnip for middle-aged men. Dear Finn Jane, growing out of dressing up, you say? Cosplay, you say? Now, our correspondent went to her first Comic-Con last year, aged 51.

41:53My husband took our son for a long weekend in Budapest for his 21st birthday and in an effort to outdo him, I bought tickets to the big Comic-Con in that there London. I asked my son what we were dressing up as, expecting to be the sidekick to whatever fandom icon he chose. No, Mum, you have to do your own thing. How else will you make friends, was his response. After years as an encouraging parent, I was hoisted by my own petard. I chose to dress as princess from the 80s cartoon classic Battle of the Planets. Can you immediately undrop this image? I absolutely can't, I'm afraid. Okay. My childhood heroine, I spent months on my costume, foraging on vintage for boots and a dress and begging my 80-year-old mum to help me with my cloak and learning how to take a Stanley knife to something called Eva foam, EVA foam, to make the classic swan-shaped helmet.

42:46I wasn't a nerd before, but I was when I got there. When we arrived at the XL, it was with trepidation, not least because in the information booklet, it called on all attendees to kindly remember that polyester costumes and a busy conference hall are a sweaty combination. Don't forget your deodorant. Isn't that great? so you just know that on the feedback form yeah nine out of ten comic-con users had said everybody smells please mention it god i hadn't even thought about that i know that's the room spray you don't want so this goes on so so our our correspondent who's uh elspeth who's uh joining us from that you look great by the way yes so i don't know whether we'll be able to get this uh this up as a shot i very much hope you will so you've got these thigh length boots on a pink costume what looks like a moped helmet and a cape flowing behind you.

43:40But it did turn out that Elspeth was some kind of a catnip for middle-aged men. Everywhere I went, there was a background hum of, oh, my God, Battle of the Planets. And I was asked for photos dozens of times, which is a strangely addictive dopamine hit. We understand that. No, we don't. The best thing by far was finally finding something that my boy and I could do together as we've got so few common interests. Now crafting our costumes and travelling to cons is our thing. Oh, well, that's fantastic. Isn't that fantastic? Yeah, that's great. And her suggestions are as follows. Jane, your desire to be a nipped, wasted heroine, along with your wonderful voice, makes me think you could only ever be.

44:26I'm waiting. Jessica Rabbit. It's quite saucy, Jessica Rabbit. Yeah, but she's not really me, is it? Okay. What was Jessica Rabbit's line? I'm not bad, I was just drawn this way. Yes, and she's very oomphy, isn't she? Yes, it's definitely not me. Yep. And I would make a wonderful Elastigirl from The Incredibles. Oh, that I can imagine. I would happily be anything from The Incredibles. But what was the name of the show? Battle of the Planets. Battle of the Planets. Do we know which planets we're battling? I don't know. Or who won? No. No idea. Let's welcome back Glyn. We love Glyn. Last week's obituaries of Man About the House actor Richard O'Sullivan all mentioned that, and I did notice this, Glenn, all mentioned that since 2003 he'd been a resident of Brinsworth House, the Royal Variety Club's retirement home for ageing lovies in Richmond-upon-Thames.

45:16Other residents over the years have included Thora Heard, Mike Yarwood, Hildebaker and Alan Fluff Freeman. Now there's a fly-on-the-wall docusoap I'd pay good money to watch, 100%. It got me thinking that with Richard O'Sullivan's death, there must now be a room available at Princeworth House. It's never too early to plan ahead and, Fee, you're in the process of selling your home and presumably looking for new accommodation. Steady on, Glyn. She's a spring chicken. Or, Jane, you're always banging on about the over-60s travel pass. Would that get you from Richmond to Times Towers? Actually, it would after nine o 'clock.

45:50Better still, think about those adjoining rooms. Imagine the anecdotage. And I like to think that there's a pretend radio studio there set up originally for Fluff Freeman, where the two of you could see out your days, jockeying the discs, crashing the pips and interviewing the other residents, oblivious to the fact that it's not a transmitter in sight. It wouldn't stop us, Glyn. It really wouldn't. Because that's how I started with Radio Garvey in my bedroom. So, I mean, I'd be right back to where I started. Yeah, I wouldn't want to imagine that my third age would be spent trying to get a word in edgeways as you broadcast non-stop Garvey FM from the cupboard.

46:30It's Radio Garvey, actually, not Garvey FM. Get it right. Well, I don't think we're not really allowed to call anything radio anymore, are we? We're audio. So you're audio Garvey. Oh, by the way, that reminds me, if you have a spare afternoon, and who has? Who has? But if you have, don't forget, our Times Radio show is now on YouTube. And you can just watch us, in my case, watch me wrestling with my earpiece, which constantly falls out, and watch me looking quite uncomfortable. But anyway, we're getting a bit more used to it, aren't we? I think so. And the studio, do you know what I like about it?

47:10I like it. I like that. I do like it too. I like it way more than I thought I was going to like it. I think the lighting is fantastic. And I know that sounds like such a boring thing to say. But bear with me. Keep up at the back. The lighting, you and I have both found very, very difficult. So in your face. For the last four years. Yeah. It was these really, really, really bright spotlights. And I did think last week, actually, that I am exponentially enjoying doing the show more than I used to just because of the lighting. I mean, who knew that it could be such an affecting thing? But also the way that the studio is designed.

47:47So the bookshelves have got lots of objet d 'art and books on them. Or some people would call it clutter. Clutter. If you're slightly bored at some points during any of our show and not every item is of huge interest to every person. Well, steady on. The triple lock is never not interesting. You can just lose yourself in wondering whose book is that? What is that thing? Why have they got something from the 1930s in a modern studio? We don't really know. But I think we could also have a little bit of fun with that, couldn't we? A little bit of fun? That's very much us. Well, we could start popping some things on the shelves and see if other people notice.

48:26That's been suggested. Liz is in Kent and just wanted to contribute after hearing our discussion about boarding schools. She's a matron at a large, international, very expensive boarding school in the UK. Prior to undertaking the role, I would have concurred with your view of them, that's boarding schools, as emotionally cold and rather oppressive places. And I'm sure it isn't always a great time for all students. However, for many girls, the house provides a home from home. We have a range of students from the very wealthy, wealthy to those on full bursaries. And no distinction is drawn. It is truly international and a global place where everybody finds their tribe and place.

49:04Pleased to say that my role values emotional health alongside the physical and we work very hard to provide the pastoral care the students really need to truly thrive. Also, please be reassured the days of manky bedding and thin pillows are over. Students bring their own bedding and can also bring their own mattress topper. Wow. Imagine travelling with a mattress topper. Well, I don't think they do because in the next paragraph, our matron details how full her study becomes over the summer holidays with John Lewis sending deliveries. Over the summer months, my office resembles John Lewis' bedding department with new deliveries.

49:42Thank you. I did need to mention that. As someone who didn't have close parental bonds, I think I'd have loved this environment and the ethos of the boarding house. It's not Harry Potter. It is a warm and nurturing place. I'm sure loads and loads of boarding schools are. and I'm sure that all of the staff in boarding schools work incredibly hard to make it a pleasant experience for the girls and boys in there. I think all we were saying is that as a choice, it wasn't a choice that either of us made. Well, I didn't have to make it. For our kids, I wouldn't have made it for mine. But as I said in the kind of discussion that we had about it, I just had such a weird experience being a day girl in a boarding school.

50:27so I don't think I you know obviously I didn't get to enjoy all of the benefits of that camaraderie and shared experience and I just had a completely kind of separate life going on at home it was just very odd actually I don't spend hours and hours thinking about it but it's just a bit weird Yes well I'll take your word for it I really will well we've got lots to look forward to during the course of this week not least our guests Zand Van Tullican Paul Smith Sir Paul Smith Sir Paul Smith Sir Paul Smith and on tomorrow's podcast we'll have news of a celebrity encounter enjoyed by one of our production staff we don't want to mention her name because she gets far too much publicity as it is but she has had well I think a very positive celebrity encounter over the weekend very much so and it is now the screensaver on her phone which is a bold move a very bold move but one that's an absolute talking point if you could have a picture of you and somebody on the front of my screensaver yep gosh who would it be who would it be um well god at the moment who would the moment who would it be i can't um it would have to be a leading sports figure uh somebody who um i'm aping um but the name hasn't i will say at the moment i'm not able to get to pilates for various logistical reasons and this morning amazed you're functioning well I was reduced to trying to do a bit on the carpet in my bedroom before I came to work uh so I'm not at my physical best at the moment but um I tell you what when you can't get to Pilates so what has this got to do with the screenshot of you in a photograph of a famous person I just couldn't think of a famous person so I'm just meandering just to say when you can't get to it your body starts to miss it so I will say that the little jiggery-pokery I did this morning on the carpet has made a small improvement to my general discomfort.

52:21The old small of the back is really feeling it at the moment. Okay. Yeah. Maybe that's a post-COVID thing as well. Right. I didn't answer your question because I can't give you one. I kind of wish we'd ended about three minutes ago. Oh, I often feel like that. It's goodbye. You come up with a celebrity. Go on. No, I can't. I'm just going to say this to make Margaret Cable and Smith laugh. Gone. A photograph of me and Frank Dobson. I'm leaving it at that. Oh, that reminds me. I'm interviewing Labour Luminary. I'm leaving it at that. Shush. Just stop. Stop. See you tomorrow. See you tomorrow if we're still alive.

53:00Bye.

53:17Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.

54:12So your vitals app, now with heart rate variability, could tell you when something is off. And your readiness score can let you know when to rest and when to push. Hear the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch Series 12. For general wellness purposes only, not intended for clinical use or to detect, diagnose, monitor or treat medical conditions. Requires iPhone 11 or later.