A fresh French tip with a chinagraph pencil

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1:54huge day for students. They're on the brink of their young adult lives. But do you know what, when you see a whole huddle of them standing outside a sports hall waiting for results, I think there is not a parent there who doesn't think, I remember that as a three-year-old child. And, you know, it's the child in them that you really think about because you want it all to go well. Do you know what, I would just like to say, first of all, I'm just so proud of my daughter. She just worked so hard. She's not a natural exam-taking person. And she just put her head down and just went for it. And it was really interesting as well.

2:33She is off to an art foundation course next year. The place had been guaranteed already for her. And there is just a change for so, so many pupils once the anxiety around exams has been lifted. I do think and it's very much a topic for current political discussion as well that we just need to stop only providing one exam and results driven education for kids it's just not for everyone the exams are so tough now a levels are really really super super tough so for anybody who's got a kid in the system who feels the same way I absolutely hear you and I hope that your son or daughter has some decent choices ahead of them because also as we know in the adult world it takes all kinds of people to make all of this work not necessarily the people who are academically superb and who just have that ability to retain information and then download it in a three-hour period in a hot sports hall i mean it's just it's just a fact isn't it if if we look around at the people who do well and who make everything work and who look after us and who are great to be around it just takes all sorts can i just say one tiny thing and then i will shut up about this please do you want i also absolutely uh give yourself a special rosette uh if you are a single parent who's seen kids through exams you know or a co-parent who's found that you know there might be slightly less of the co sometimes so i just think it's it's a really really tough one and i salute you yes i salute you sisters and brothers so yeah yeah that yes i i lived with my mom during exam periods and i feel for feel for her because you're just a bit of a sounding board to all these mood swings and panics and heightened emotions and she was always just kind of there yeah with the biscuit tin just just being there is i mean it is such an important part of of parenting isn't it and i think you do come to realize that on the other side but also knowing when to not be there when i was like yeah when to exit just knowing when to step out yes totally for your own safety as a parent very much so and it's a super hot day here across the uk it's 38 degrees and I just wish all of those students luck as well.

5:06Don't over-celebrate in the midday sun. Save something for later. Do stay hydrated. Not in the way that you're imagining hydration to be. No, nobody's going to take any notice of that at all. I feel better for saying it. This comes in from Lynn and she is just after the Anne Pratchett novel name because she looked up wisdom and you're absolutely right. It's not called that, Lynn. That's why you couldn't find it. It's called Whistler. So that is the novel by Anne Pratchett. It is called Whistler. I've sent you some emails, Eve. What have you got? I should address this one from Jess. It's called Discombobulated.

5:42And this is very much my fault. Morning. I just wanted to flag that in a busy week at work, I've started feeling discombobulated today as your pod description identified yesterday's pod as Wednesday. Jess is referring to Tuesday's podcast episode. I turned my phone on this morning and suddenly thought I'd lost a day. Did I oversleep? have the summer holidays just run away with themselves thankfully it only lasted a minute and i'm now back in reality but wanted to share in case anyone else had lost time today and to check eve is okay and not wishing away the week too quickly well i mean you probably are this made me laugh when it came in and i know what happened here jas and not to overshare i was seeing a friend you're on the wrong podcast so not to bore you but I was seeing a friend on Tuesday who isn't very often in the country so we were having drinks and as a rule I tend to not socialize on Monday or Tuesdays because they're sacred parts of the week where I need to get my life in order so I think because I had plans on Tuesday evening it had a bit of a Wednesday about it so I got a bit confused myself and I apologize for creating any further confusion well fair Fair enough.

6:52And now I'm just going to have to dig a little deeper on that. They're sacred parts of the week. Say that again. So Monday and Tuesday evenings, you've deliberately set them aside to be non-social. I don't make plans. I'll maybe do a bit of a food shop. I'll try and do some exercise. I might put a wash on, maybe see my boyfriend. That kind of thing. But it's all very low level. I love the fact that your boyfriend comes after the washing. And he knows that. I'm like, I can't. I can't. It's piling up. I have to go. I can't. I've got a special hot wash on. Stop it. I'm sorry, Jess. There was a Wednesday feeling in the air.

7:28I hope you felt it too. Can I say that's an incredibly sensible schedule to stick to as well. And are you already finding that you slightly look forward to those evenings? Absolutely. It's weird, isn't it? I feel a bit out of sorts this week because I've been socialising since Tuesday. Oh no, that's too much. It is too much, yeah. The washing is piling up. Yeah. I think personally, if I do, and because also we've got a talking job, you know, we're talking to people all the time. So, you know, you can feel a little bit... I don't, but I'm just talking to people all the time anyway. Sometimes, sometimes it's force field, really.

8:02Honestly, listeners, it's very powerful. It's very, very powerful. Actually quite often on a Monday and a Tuesday. Now you know. But you do have to recognise what the limit of your social battery is, don't you? and factor in what your work is like and whether that's taking it out of you. And I would have thought that sometimes when you have a really hefty edit to do on the podcast, it's probably quite a nice time, isn't it? Put the headphones on. It is. Disappear into it. I think that's a really nice aspect of our job is when I get to edit some audio, it's just complete kind of quiet time and I put my headphones on and it's very immersive.

8:39Maybe I'll get a little Diet Coke or some snacks going and it's quite private time. Yeah, and it's quite meditative as well. It is. You get quite lost in it. I think that's one of the joys of digital editing, which I didn't take to at all, because obviously back in the day when we did our training, it was on tape. So you literally had to cut pieces out of tape. And you had a china graph where you measured it, then you cut it, and then you stuck it together. So it was a bit fiddly. It was fiddly, but it was like craft. I mean, it was craft. Did it ever get a bit frustrating, though? Oh, definitely, because A, if you had to clean up an interview, stay with us at the back.

9:17Stay with us. If you had to clean up an interview, so you were taking out errs and ums, it could be very, very laborious, whereas I think that's probably a nice part sometimes of digital editing. It's a bit like doing the ironing. You can do it very specifically. You can see it in front of you. But you could only hear it. You couldn't see anything on the tape. You couldn't see where you needed to make the chop. So if you made the wrong chop, you were absolutely stuffed. and sometimes as well if you were listening to a very long interview actually having to endlessly spool forward and back to remember which bit had been said before or you know which bit you'd like to transplant I mean it was a completely different hand-eye coordination ear experience It's very different than what we do now and that's just a highlight and a button Yeah, and also you could cut yourself a lot because you were doing it with a razor blade.

10:15Oh my goodness. I know, Eve. I didn't realise. I didn't realise. Crazy times. And that just wouldn't be allowed in an office, no. You wouldn't be allowed to just have a great big tub full of razor blades as we did back in the day. Isn't that weird? That is weird. I mean, I still have my, even when I carry a pair of scissors around the office, I still have my primary school training of clutching them by the blades. Okay, that's very sensible. Very carefully because you don't, never want to jab anyone yeah so when you just walk around with a box of razor blades very much so what if you tripped so if you were out and about with your ewer do you know what that term is i do not oh my god uh so a ewer was and still i mean still is uh uh an over the shoulder recording device which had two tapes two spools in it tape went across at the same time you could just about edit on that just about so quite often you know you'd you'd have some razor blades just in your pocket but you know what the china graph pencil as well was really fantastic for giving yourself fake french manicures because you just put it under the nail and it looked like you'd been to the salon so you were very busy at work very very busy sometimes those council meetings in local radio they were a little long but they were very informative that's where we learned our trade but Yes, beautiful nails by the end of it.

11:37They were very different times. In a way, they were lovely times. Nostalgia is always, you know, incredibly sweet. But I think your digital editing skills are superb and I can see why that's very appealing. And you never really lose something, do you? It's always in a bin somewhere. You can always get it back. That's true. Yeah, well, there was that terrible feeling that once you'd left a tiny bit of tape on the floor, you were never going to find it again. You'd have to piece the whole thing together again to find it. Bloody hell. Yeah, it was different. It was different. 13 weeks and five heat waves.

12:12This comes in from Susanna. I really want to talk about this, Eve. Dear Fee, Jane and Eve, I'm writing to you from beneath my sleeping 13-week-old baby, Clement. Great name. He and his cohort of mid-May newborns are now entering their fifth heat wave. Fifth. The poor boy doesn't yet know the pleasure of a cool breeze. the antenatal classes we attended instilled in us a healthy fear of the risk to babies of overheating during sleep so we were quite unnerved during the first couple of heat waves friends and families continue to send us baby blankets one day perhaps we will need them by coincidence i'm reading ian mckeon's what what we can what we can know what we can know what we can know what we can know take your pick said 100 years in the future after the country has been submerged following the inundation it's an interesting reflection on our current behaviors and responses to global climate change i hope it's not a likely future for clement and his chums thank you for entertaining me through the night shifts we are always here for you susannah i don't know how young mums and dads are coping with tiny babies i'd just be so worried all of the time and i guess you can get a fan and put it over the cot and that would help but yes what an extraordinary sensation for newborns who are four or five months old to have been born in this time of intense heat to never have known anything different at this point i bet if you're breastfeeding that's doubly hard work as well because you've got a hot thirsty baby and you know i hope you're taking care of yourself there susanna but the other thing that i wanted to talk about was just one extraordinarily brave book to be reading i thought the exact same i just don't think Susanna, why are you doing that to yourself?

14:01Oh, my word. I mean, I'd just, if I was honest, I'd just go back through Jenny Cooper's podcast. I'd like a bit of light-hearted romp or something like that. I mean, that is well to wait. And you're obviously of sound mind. So I admire you for taking that on in the early months of motherhood. But yeah, I mean, we've all got to consider this and we've got to consider it very, very seriously. But it would be okay, Susanna, if you didn't for the time being. Yes, well, yes. It does seem to come into sort of sharp focus when we're considering the babies and what comes next for them. But also, on a similar note, when you see a heavily pregnant woman in this heat, I really feel for them.

14:44Not that I know what it feels like, but I feel for them. Well, it's good that you're feeling for them. I completely feel for them too. And, you know, a long labour, you know, when it's peaking over 35 degrees. and as we are finding out our hospitals are so badly air conditioned or breezy so yeah good luck everybody i had a pickle this week with my fan i was getting ready in a rush in the morning and i knocked it forward and the blades have broken so now it's just a kind of stub in the middle and then i'd also just freshly applied some moisturizer and i turned it on the fan on and it just spat loads of dust at me.

15:25That stuck. That stuck. And I've gone to Amazon to buy a new one and they're obviously just all completely sold out. But I'd have thought at this stage in the heat waves, they'd have got into a good habit of restocking them. But no, you can't get some of them until the end of September. Oh, that's very bad. There are quite a few available on the Kingsland Road. Would you like me to buy some? Could you please? I can do that. I dread to think what that dust was comprised of. I had to get back in the shower I was late to work yes good I'm very glad you said that uh can we just do quick shout out to midwives nurses and doctors in hospitals as well there was a terrifying story on the news bulletin today actually about the the numbers of health care staff who are having to be admitted to their own hospitals because you know they uh they're they're physically unable to carry on working and they become the patients I mean all of this I really hope it doesn't fall off the agenda when autumn comes and, you know, budgets are talked about because, you know, this summer has just proved we've got such a long way to go, everybody.

16:31And I don't have much faith in our country with implementing and updating infrastructure very well. So even if they do say that they're going to give our hospitals an air con and a remodel and all this, I don't trust that that would go smoothly in any way. Yeah, I agree with you. I think we have tapped not now on the upgrade a lot and we've just got to stop tapping not now. We've just got to do it. The Cheltenham Literature Festival, having seen who you will be chatting with at the Literature Festival in October, says Jenny from Cheltenham, I will certainly be booking my ticket as soon as they're released.

17:06Last year's guest, Penny Lancaster, was so lovely as I'm sure this year's guests will be. Look forward to seeing you in October. Who's the guest, please, Eve? Annika Rice. Thank you very much. This from Julie, who's a Farnham listener, who I met at the Joanna Cannon event. And it was really lovely to meet you, Julie. I hope the story of the listener who had accidentally left her prosthetic hand on a train. I enjoy it, yes. It reminded me of my holiday last year. I was staying at a resort with plenty of sunbeds for all. But of course, there were the usual people who hurried to the poolside early to put towels to lay claim to the best ones.

17:41One morning, to my horror, I realised somebody had left their prosthetic leg on a sunbed to keep it reserved. Clearly nobody was going to move that. I attached a photograph as evidence and no, I didn't see the owner arrive to claim it. Well, you're absolutely right. I mean, that is throwing everybody else's books and towels right into the shade and why not? You just would not dare. I very much hope that the owner and wearer of the prosthetic leg took a suitable amount of satisfaction in doing that. I can imagine being accused of moving someone's perspective. Well, very much so. And, you know, there can't be very many advantages in life to being limb different, but that's got to be one of them.

18:24So thank you for sending that in, Julie. Now, this is Sarah, or it could be Sarah, so I'll give you both options, who was listening to the Tuesday edition, which featured Claire McGinn and a discussion about the work that she has done on extreme pornography. And Sarah Sarah says, My head is reeling. I absolutely agree that having our heads in the sand about the plague that is online porn helps no one. I've talked a little to my daughter about it, but I haven't to my son. I'm trying to find the right moment. I veer from rage and aggression towards the platforms to share horror and fear for the upcoming sex life of my teenagers.

19:03All of this is obviously contributing to aggression and violence towards women and even children and the lack of censorship on x repulses me and i deliberately don't have the app that phrase stains your brain is so apt and the thing that springs to mind is that the users make neural pathways to finding fulfillment through porn and not real life sex the misogyny just makes me livid rant over never apologize for ranting to us ever we are so here for all of your rants. It was absolutely worth raising the issue. It's going to be a very emotive one for many, no doubt. And greetings from southern Switzerland, where Sarah Sara is, where the sky is murky due to renewed fires over the border in Italy.

19:48It's turning out to be some summer. Higher up, autumn is turning here, thankfully. I was glad to hear that at the end, because autumn will come, but it has been a very long summer. We'd love all of your thoughts about that interview. I mean, it was, you know, it's very hard to listen to. It's a very difficult book to read. I admire Claire's work so much. She's gone to all of those places to then report back on them to us. And we just have to give her our time because it can't be left to only a few people to bother to look and see what's out there. And if we don't know what's out there, we just aren't having the right kind of debates and making the right kind of guardrails available for our young people.

20:29That phrase, stains the brain, It's about the effect that visual images have, and it comes from a teenager. So a teenager she spoke to about what he had seen said, it stained my brain. It's such a good way of putting it. Her PS is, I'd forgotten Jane was on holiday and immediately jumped to the conclusion that her dad had health issues. That's a middle-aged conclusion, if ever there was one. So yeah, don't worry, peoples. Jane is on a beach in Greece. I think she was having chicken pizza for a bunch yesterday. Hiding from the paps once again. Chicken pizza's not right. It's not right, Eve. On a hot holiday.

21:06Well, just chicken on a pizza. Just generally. Yeah, I think it's just very wrong. I don't mind chicken in a sandwich, but there's just something wrong with chicken on a pizza. I'm glad she's keeping you updated. No, this comes by Rosie, actually. Yep, no. I'm letting Jane just have a proper holiday, but she did need to be contacted about a very, very, very urgent thing. It wasn't very urgent, but it's all sorted now. do you have another email there I have an email here from Heather subjected and you'll like this one God loves Altos too yes and also with you and we did give Fee's rendition of Total Eclipse of the Heart a little rerun on the live show yesterday yeah and do you know what I did think some things should just stay in the podcast cupboard I don't think it's just you know they just they don't bear the scrutiny of the outside world basically that was just between me and sean in catering and i wonder yeah we do sean we need to hear how your mayorkian eclipse went did you watch it i did where did you go well i was in the lido but as it turned out the lido wasn't the very best place to watch it because uh it's got some very big trees there was nowhere that i could get to where i'd be able to have an unobstructive view so we left the lido and i went for a wander back to my house.

22:28And do you know what, Eve? It was just one of the most fantastic shared experiences, wasn't it? Yeah. Everybody's, every street corner, the colanders were out, the boxes, the special pinhole thingamajiggy whatsits, everyone was sharing them around. It was lovely. Yeah. A really, really lovely thing. I completely agree. Yeah, to be part of. Where were you? I was at my boyfriend's house for a family dinner and we had a similar experience in the garden where there was trees. I completely agree. I think yesterday I was a little bit faking nonchalance, but actually when everyone came together and you saw all the photos of how many people were in the parks and we had the same thing where everyone was out in the streets and passing the glasses around, you really didn't need a pair of glasses per person, actually.

23:16You could just share them around. Which was nice too. But no, I thought it was... I didn't know what to expect, but my expectations were surpassed. Did you feel it was a little bit magical and spooky? Honestly, I thought there's something slightly apocalyptic about it when the whole world went a bit sort of sepia dark. It was, wasn't it? I thought it was grand. Yeah, yeah. It's so odd, isn't it, to be amongst loads and loads of other strangers all experiencing the same natural thing. You know, we're there, aren't we, if we're at a gig or watching a play or whatever it is. But actually, everybody slightly didn't know what was going to happen or how it was going to be.

24:01And that's the bit that I found really magical. We were all in our tiny human state kind of going, is that it? Is it going to get darker? Is it going to get light? It was just amazing, actually. Really amazing. It does make you feel quite small. Yeah. It's happening all the way over there and we're just all here like, what? totally and I did think that the mobile phone came into its own that's also true that's also a good point because if you didn't have some kind of apparatus it would you it just looked like the sun yeah but you couldn't do the selfie shot yeah and be watching and then you could see what was really going on no it was an amazing thing but I don't want to receive any more images from people about it if that's okay we'll take Sean's we'll take Sean's.

24:46Otherwise we saw it. Yeah, we don't need to share any more. Got it. Got it. The Sun has got an amazing front page today. Have you seen it? I know. I saw it. I did see it and I thought I want to nab a copy of that. Are there any left in the office? I haven't actually investigated yet, but if I see one, shall I get two? Well, it's a souvenir issue and it just says the sun, the moon, and it's just got the picture there. It's actually very clever. Yes. It's very clever. Yeah. We'd like to see Sean's eclipse. We don't want to see anybody else's eclipse, if that's okay. We were halfway through an email.

25:20Back with Heather. I so related to Fee's struggle to find a key when singing. I'm a regular church attender. When your husband is the pastor, it's kind of expected. I find the musicians arrange hymns and songs so high. I often have to drop an octave mid-verse. I've been known to call out, God loves an alto too. I can also weigh in on the poultry and cat combo. We've had a few more emails on that. We have one dog, one cat, one cockerel, five hens, two jakes, two ducks and two fish. Sounds like a song you sing around Christmas. It does, doesn't it? Leo cat is king, but resolutely ignores the birds, even when they are roaming free in the garden.

25:58He grooms the dog and watches the fish as though they are TV entertainment. Happy Wednesday, Heather. She could have sent that email on Tuesday, but I think she did actually send that on the right Wednesday. Yeah, that is such a fantastic farmyard of animals. She is. You are living the life that one day I hope to live. Harriet sent in another one as well. Harriet is our overexcited jewellery designer and small business owner who's now going to be on Times Radio's books. It's just an attempt to lure you away from Five Live. Eve was absolutely right about the chickens and cats. The cats are far warier of the chickens than the other way round.

26:33Most are big, burly, ex-battery hybrids. Boof. But we have one tiny bantam who's literally blackbird size, so we were worried about her. But a few months ago, one of the cats tried to approach her and the larger hens promptly chased the cat off with their wings outstretched, protecting the little one. The cat scarpered, looking completely intimidated and hasn't tried it again. So yes, the chickens rule the roost. Well, good for them. Good for them. Do you know what, I really like to see species protecting other species against a predator. It's a nice thing, isn't it? It is nice. It doesn't happen often enough.

27:10we could learn some things. Brilliant books. Emma Thompson and Kenneth Branagh were in an excellent TV adaptation of the Balkan Trilogy. Have you read that? You're very well read for a young person. I have not. No, neither have I. No, moving on. It's a lovely suggestion from Katie. And a final one from me. We'll chuck it out to the hive and it'll be very obvious why I'm reading this Eve. Don't draw attention to it. Ali's from Bath. just listened to you after being underwhelmed by the eclipse somebody had to be Annie, don't worry my dear granddaughter Ava has spent the last two years loving it at the University of Kent don't laugh, everyone laughs it's a great university it's a lovely area I know, Annie, great university but that's all I can speak on wounded, wounded Eve where did you go?

28:06Leeds Leeds, of course I did Leeds, yeah. Well, Leeds is lovely, isn't it? It is. On Monday the 10th, she flew to Oslo as part of her course for a year. All still very new, but how exciting. Any advice? And Annie has listened to us bawling since the very beginning and came to Cheltenham last year and is coming this year. Waitrose bag at the ready. That's it, Annie. Good girl. So any advice for what to do in Oslo? And I'll report back when we come back from the Norwegian capital. With footage. With footage, with some footage. But any other suggestions from people who know far more about the city, I think that those would be appreciated.

28:46It is an expensive place to live, I know that. So I think for a student, suggestions would be very welcome. They do have massive outdoor food halls and stations, which I wish there were more of in our UK cities. And I know that our weather can go against that in winter, but it's such a lovely thing. You know, when you turn up and there are 27 different places that you can eat from and everyone just gets their own stuff and eats in the middle. Suits everyone. Yeah, I like that. And there's a nice relaxed vibe about it. Very much so, very much so. It's terrible for food envy though, isn't it? Well, yeah, you've got to have a little bite of everyone's.

29:24Yeah, but not the chicken pizza.

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30:02Enter Weight Loss by HERS. It's designed to support you in reaching your goals. And HERS now offers access to an affordable range of FDA-approved GLP-1 medications, including the WeGoV pill and the WeGoV pen. Even better, with a range of affordable GLP-1 options, HERS makes it simple to find an approach that fits your needs and your budget, if eligible. You'll get a treatment plan personalized to you and unlimited dosage changes as needed. It's weight loss designed to work with your life. Ready to reach your goals? Visit 4hers.com slash eligible to get personalized, affordable care that gets you.

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31:00So today we are talking as a guest to Tim Pope. It's an incredibly visual interview. We're going to do our best. It's about music videos. You'll probably want to stop at least three times during the interview to go and actually look at the videos that we're talking about. Just reading his book. I mean, I just didn't get to the end of a single chapter. Just, oh, yeah, I'm going to go look at it. Oh, I remember. Oh, I remember that. So here he comes. Good luck. Now, if you ever spent a hungover Saturday afternoon simply grazing on MTV, watching video after video. You will know Tim Pope's work. He is the director behind some of the most loved videos from the 80s and 90s.

31:39He put Freddie Mercury in what looked like a prawn shell. He shot a video for Soft Cell that we almost can't talk about. He put The Cure in a wardrobe and the wardrobe went off a cliff. Mark Almond of Soft Cell calls him a man who's prone to go too far. And the book I Shoot Rockstars is a romp through the 80s and 90s detoting his crazy career. And it was prompted by coming across a years-old answering machine message from David Bowie. And not a lot of people can say that they have one of those. Tim, it's so lovely to see you here in the studio. You've got to tell us more about the David Bowie message.

32:15I mean, it's so spooky. Well, it was, you know, it was weird because it was given to me by a friend of mine called Matt Johnson, who's in a band called The The, wonderful band, a UK band. and he phoned me up one day, this was about six years ago, and he said to me, got something I think you should hear? And then he proceeded to play me this thing down the phone, you know, of David leaving me a message. And he was in Amsterdam and he wanted... I was about to film his live show, his 50th birthday party in Madison Square Garden, you know, working with David. And, yeah, it was weird. It was like when I heard it, it was just like, you know, He'd left us like six years before.

32:58So it was like a voice coming from the grave. It just really was. It was very odd, but quite emotional in a way. Anyway, I heard that. I had no intention of writing a book in the slightest. It was the last thing. I mean, God damn it, I can hardly spell. No, that's not true. I went to a posh school, so it's all right. But anyway, I sat down and I started writing. I thought, I've got all these stories. So I sat down and I started writing this thing and it took me two weeks. I sat in an armchair for two weeks and I thought, oh, that's easy. Great, done. Then worked on it for about four or five years subsequently, which is the way it goes, I think.

33:35Yes, the first draft is the deepest. But the initial sort of brain dump, I think they call it, did take me two weeks, you know. I mean, I'm amazed that nobody had thought to ask you to write a book before because actually the stories of all of the people who you directed and shot are just fabulous, Tim. And of course, you can come at it from a very different perspective to an artist themselves. Or you can say more, can't you? You weren't a manager who'd signed an NDA. This is just a fabulous romp through history. Yeah, I mean, I think my book is very respectful of a lot of the people I work with.

34:07It really is. I would say it's a kind of love story with many of the people that I actually work with. I mean, I had to ask everyone's permission, all the living people, obviously with people like David, obviously, you know, I couldn't ask his permission. but I would say it's a very respectful book and I really wanted to show the human side of people that's what I wanted to show that I've seen that people are these huge rock stars I went to a studio in Munich to see Freddie Mercury for example and I just remember him I'd seen him on stage in 1976 in Hyde Park flamboyant rock star, amazing operist you know and he was such a nice little bloke you know a naughty glint in his eye i have to say but he was he was just like uh he kept coming and saying oh did i want to build his tea and things like that just people are very down to earth and i really wanted to show the human side and one of the things i was very keen to do in the book is we put qr codes at the end of each chapter so i tell you the story about like the cure in the wardrobe you just played a little bit of the Plinky Plonky Cure song there.

35:15And then, you know, I describe what happened that day or I describe the person and then you watch the video and I think you see it slightly differently. Do you see what I mean? You go behind the scenes. And I really wanted to capture that human part of people. Like David, I really wanted to capture. I can't say I was ever a friend with David, but I got to know him pretty well over 12 years. And the way that you write about him actually is lovely. And I wonder whether you can indulge us with the story about him and Lou Reed and you being a bit cheeky about, should we call it eye contact? Well, OK, you're referring to my dodgy eye.

35:55I have, as you can see in front of you now, I've got a bit of a dodgy eye. It's less wonder-y than it used to be. well um so i think a big theme of my book apart from friendship maybe is i i think a big theme is um how how i went from growing up in north london this kid with the wonky eye who wanted to be a director and ended up you know working with all these superheroes and and it's that duality that i talk about a lot in the book of me being both fan super fan and film director if you like and that's what I tried to do with the videos so what you're talking about there David had asked me to film his 50th birthday concert and I I'm sensing you're you're a Bowie fan right yes yeah you gave your you gave yourself away a little bit there I just had a funny feeling anyway so I go over to New York and and we're preparing I mean so many amazing stories about it but we're preparing for um in in Philip Glass's studio for David to record some backing tracks you know they were becoming quite popular and he said to me he said Lou's coming in today I went you know nearly said Lou who joke joke I've got it I'm a bit mouthy in my book is it probably comes across and anyway so David then uh Lou Reed turns up right now this Lou Reed for me was the gravelly voiced Long Island person from uh you know who I'd grown up with you know walk on the wild side all these the velvet underground.

37:22Anyway, David said to me, just, you know, you can hang out. So I, there was a moment where I saw Lou Reed and David Bowie, like two bookends in standing in a kitchen. And David had said to me, go wherever you want to go. And I thought, well, okay, I'll take him at his word. So I went in to pretend to make a cup of tea. And they're both standing there. And I thought, great, I'm going to hear something about, you know, I'm going to hear something about their amazing work together or something. No, that wasn't what it was about. They were talking about fruit bowls uh lou reed was going off to africa the next day and uh david was giving him a talking to about how fruit bowls can warp in the change of climate right and and and so so he goes oh you know you've got to be careful with fruit bowls he said i brought some back and and they warped and i think i saw lou reed changes mind anyway later on i went into the studio it's like we're in a tiny studio where we're speaking now and it was about the size of this studio and you know having grown up on this music you know they were rehearsing these amazing songs like uh white light white heat by the velvet underground and waiting for my man and stuff and i'm i'm sitting there like and they're playing it to me so the moment that you're talking about is david then came out he said right well come and have a listen and they came out and then suddenly i've got this moment where I've got David with Lou past his shoulder looking into my face.

38:45He says, have you met Tim Lou? And he goes, no, I don't think I have. And then he said, look at his eye. He's got a dodgy eye. He's directing the show and he can't see a bloody thing. So this is what David said. And then I heard myself say, sort of, or a voice that I think apparently belonged to me, say, well, I'm not the only one around here with a dodgy eye. Because, of course, David, of course, had his famously, you know, open iris, which gave him his otherworldly look. Yes, yeah. Oh, I just, anecdote after anecdote spools through the book and we've got so little time and I want to really do justice to our listeners.

39:23So can we explain the soft sell problem? Is it a problem? We couldn't play the tune that you did make the video for in case people then go in search of that video. It's very difficult to find, Fee. Very difficult to find, but we don't want to send people in search of the video. I feel you're leading me in here. Yes, I am. You're getting me to do the dirty work here. Yes, please. You want me to say, you want me to do the dirty, don't you? Yes. What Fee is talking about, which she will not say, she's talking about a video I made with Soft Cell for Sex Dwarf. okay so this um i had my relationship soft sell were the first band i ever worked with i did a a video for a song called bedsitter and um and then i started doing a lot of stuff with them and then they came to me with this song called sex dwarf uh luring disco dollies into a life of vice i mean absolutely brilliant song and what are you going to do you ain't going to shoot it in a in a sunday school are you you with that you know with those kind of words so So we ended up shooting in a studio in St John's Wood.

40:34We paid a visit to the butchers. We got some wool sausages. We got, you know, some bits and bobs. And I was chucking it all in from out of frame. And it was completely mad. And I'll help you out here because I'm not trying to entrap you into, you know, saying something that people might find offensive. Oh, I think it's hilarious. It doesn't bother me. But it would have been a video of its time. I mean, it couldn't be shown. it was deemed to be... People say it can't be... Do you know there's actually nothing in it. It's become a legend in its own lunchtime. There is... I tell you, I once went to a talk by Quentin Tarantino and he was talking about the colour red and there's a lot of red in it and that creates an emotion I think in audiences.

41:20There's actually not that much it's a lot of people rolling around in meat and anyway, I'd hate to go away because I'd hate to destroy my work, you know, doing weddings and bar mitzvahs and such like. So, you know. Yeah. But it leads to a question just about how in control you and the artists were of whatever it was that you wanted to create. I mean, if we wanted to be a bit kind of bland, we'd describe you as a maverick. I think actually you're much more than that. A naughty maverick. Yes. Did you feel that you could just do whatever you wanted to do? You see, one of the things I talk about in the book a lot is that I'm a, what I call a bespoke tailor that I really wanted to work with people and, you know, make suits that fitted them.

42:04You could go to other people for off the peg numbers. But I, and so my relationship, my thing was very much about relationships, okay, so working in cahoots with people. So people don't believe it these days, things have become in the world of algorithms that we listen in. And my book is very much about a time when pre-algorithm, if you like, pre-double guessing, which I absolutely loathe. So I just wanted to create as much trouble as I could and enjoy myself and have a great ride and working with people. So now a lot of the people I work with, I still work with 40 years later. So I met Robert Smith of The Cure.

42:43He was 22 or something. I met him in 1982. And I'm still working with him now, about to do a huge project with him and such like. So my thing was always relationships. so I had four really big relationships there was Bowie which I've talked about I worked with him for 11 years and I'm sure I would have worked with him again a band called The The who are wonderful a guy called Matt Johnson and then Neil Young I still work with as well which is great I'm kind of in different orbits with these people and then The Cure obviously What is the huge project that you're working on with Robert Smith at the moment?

43:20Oh my god, this will get the Goths Oh, my God, they're going to be pulling their goth hair out if I talk about this. It's a very, very bad summer for goths, I think. It is. It is. Imagine all that melting makeup and everything. I know. Anyway, so what I'm doing is I'm doing a celebration of their 50th year. And Robert Smith has told me that he has, I haven't seen any of this stuff, so you'll have to ask him. But he's told me he's got 50 boxes with stuff in, just stuff. now when I was a fan of Bowie there was an amazing 20 seconds of film you can see on YouTube and someone's dad had bought a camera and they come out and they photograph this cool looking dude who happens to be David Bowie in 1967 people should check it out, it's a great piece of footage but I think as a fan that is the stuff I like to see so with all these boxes of film we're going to have all this stuff, I can't promise because I haven't seen it yet But all the recording sessions with them and stuff that no one's ever seen.

44:21I think that will be really incredible. It sounds incredible. Can we talk about Freddie Mercury? So this is the music video for Hard Life. Did you want to make him look like a prawn or was it a bit accidental? It's called It's Hard Life. No, I mean, he was very naughty, you know. I pitched this to him and I said to him, I said, look, I think we should do it like an opera. And of course he was Mr. Opera, you know, but none of the other band were present, whatever their names are. I can't never remember them when I'm supposed to, but I remember Freddie. And he said, I'll have to come up with something, darling, then a costume, won't I?

45:01So he didn't let me see it and finally revealed it to me the day before the shoot. He had what I describe in the book as like this mane on his head, like it had been ripped from a crazy carousel horse. And he had this costume, this red costume, with eyes all down the front of it. And it just got the name, the Mediterranean prawn costume. So really, it was Freddie's choice. He looks amazing. Well, I think so. Do you know, I hated the video because I know the other band members bloody hated it for years and years and years. Then they put out a 4K version. And actually, I thought, oh, my God, it is actually very bloody good.

45:43Shut up, I thought. Is there a current artist who you would really love to work with, a younger artist? Well, I mean, I think my days of doing videos are probably sort of done, really. So probably not. I mean, if a young artist came to me, I would consider it. But you've got to bear in mind that I worked in a time where the budgets were fairly big and I was a bit spoiled. So there's no point me trying to shoot something on an iPhone. I would consider it if someone came to me. I think I'm more interested in doing other projects. So, I mean, I've just been shooting some commercial. I just shot a very big commercial for a brand of Scottish whiskey with Willem Dafoe, which was wonderful.

46:26And I've got the big cure thing. And I'm trying to do a feature film because you will be aware that part of my book was about my... And part of why I had to write this book was to have a catharsis about the time I had in Hollywood with the fabulous Harvey Weinstein, who we all know about, right? Who, I don't like to make light of that because I know a lot of the women that had, you know, awful experiences with him. But I would say I was spiritually me too'd and I didn't want to make a film for years and years. Yeah, so he really trashed your work, didn't he? And trashed you. I think that is an understatement.

47:00I think that the worst three words that anyone has ever said to me, Fee, can you imagine sitting across the table? I'd shown him a rough cut of the film. He was also known as Harvey Scissorhands, right? He was notorious for being in the cutting room. And he had trashed my film to the point where I did not recognise it anymore. And we went out. There was a screening at Universal Studios in California and we went out for a meal. And then he looked at me and he was trying to get me to... I'd been through this horrific screening where he'd been chucking popcorn at the back of my neck and calling me God.

47:32Call yourself a effing director. Anyway, all this stuff was going on and on. And we end up in this restaurant and then he turned to me and he went, just cut the picture how we want. He said this because he said, remember this, we own you. And you know what? They did at that moment. And to be told by Harvey Weinstein that he owned you was not good. I kind of would like to get my book to him in Rikers, actually, for him to reflect on it. I don't think he's a man who does self-reflection, is he? Doesn't seem to be from what I heard. I did read an interview with him recently. I mean, I'm with you on this.

48:09I was very sad to feel that somebody who we know to have been such an evil piece of work actually made you doubt yourself for such a long time. That's a terrible thing to have happened. So we are so grateful to you for coming in and talking about this. I wish we had another hour, Tim. I could just easily, easily do another hour. It's a hard recommend on the book from me. Thank you very much. I just think it's a piece of genius as well. You can't read it in one sitting because, as you say, you just have to keep stopping and going back to the music videos. Oh, I really appreciate it. Well, it's probably my first and last book, you know, so here goes.

48:45Here goes, here goes. Absolutely lovely to meet you. Well, thank you for having me. Tim's book is called I Shoot Rockstars. It is out now. It is very funny. It is highly, highly readable. It's got quite big font. Perfect. Which we like. We like very much. So that's it from me. I'm checking out for 17 days, as Rosie, the executive producer, keeps on telling me it's not two weeks, it's 17 whole days for... I've got that extra day in. I have got that extra day in. As you should. Yeah, for the bank holiday. And I hope you all have a lovely couple of weeks. I hope you have a great time in Turkey. There is a little Friday bonus.

49:21And there is a Friday... Well, well remembered, Eve. And there is a Friday bonus episode that I urge you to listen to. It's about breast cancer. and you might think, oh, I'm okay. I know about breast cancer. I know people who've had it. I know people who've not survived it, have survived it. But this is really worth listening to because I think it just makes you literally check in with yourself. So we gift you that and Garve is back on Monday. Have a lovely weekend. Bye.

50:05Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.

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