Girl-on-girl (radio) action (with Andi Oliver)

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0:33OK,

0:41so my headphones are dodgy and we're talking about lethal trousers on the programme today. Hello. Sounds like something you could get arrested for. Don't do that again. Right, welcome. Another slick beginning. Hello. Hello. Yes, it is a... It's the beginning. Do you not like my... It's Gerald here from High Wycombe. You've got a blazer on with quite overpolished buttons. I think I have. Can you just order a gin and tonic in that voice? Could I have a gin and tea, please? Exactly. No, not happy with that. No, I completely agree with you there. And I may even be wearing pink trousers too. But you're not.

1:29You're wearing very sensible trousers. Or are they? Have you seen this? No. Oh, the Zara trousers. We are talking a little later on the Times Radio programme. How might someone listen to that? Well, it's good that you asked Corporate Cathy. Almost sliding into Penelope, no principles. But Corporate Cathy, for the time being, you could listen on the app where it's completely free or you could retune your digital radio and you could find us British Summertime, 2 till 4, Times Radio. That's right. And actually, it's not sunny today, and I feel really cheated. Yes! Oh, don't be ridiculous. I kind of do.

2:03Oh, don't be daft. Where's the sun gone? There was a lovely, lovely fresh breeze as I took Nancy Fart pants out this morning, and it was just making everybody happy. Everyone said, good morning, hello, how are you? Instead of, I mean, we've been walking around. Yes. And almost like the ready-bret glow thing has been on us all, hasn't it? It's just been disgusting. So don't ask for the sun, Mike. OK, sorry, I just missed it now. It's gone. Anyway, these are the slippy satin Zara trousers, aren't they? My daughter warned me about these. Well, they're£25.99. Yeah. So coming in under£26. Why are things priced like this?

2:44I've never really understood it. Is it to give you the suggestion it's a bargain? It's the illusion, isn't it? Yeah. But we're sticking to it. You're right. We should just ditch it, shouldn't we? It's£26. Come on, let's just grow up about this. Or just go for something a bit more interesting,£25.72. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Anyway, profit margins, a world of mystery. So these strides, trues and other things you could call trousers in a second mention. Can you think of any others? Thigh coverers. Yeah, whatever. They have been doing real damage because people are tripping up. They're so long. They are overlong and they're incredibly wide.

3:20Hugo Rifkind, when I mentioned them to him, he said you and I could probably both fit in just one leg of these trousers. Well, that's very rude. Or is it a compliment? Because we're so tiny. Yes, how lovely of you, Hugo, thank you. Yeah, exactly. We should be very grateful. But they are a real danger. And health and safety, Harriet, which is another of my personas, be a nightmare on escalators and stairs. I was just thinking. I was just thinking exactly that. And especially if you're wearing it with a flip-flop. And we've had this conversation before that nobody should be wearing a flip-flop at all, apart from maybe actually on sand on the beach.

3:55But they're a very, very dangerous footwear item. I know that. I mean, people, I've seen them commuting in flip-flops the last couple of weeks. That's just crazy. And we haven't had much of a... I'm a bit disappointed we haven't heard from a chiropodist because I want to know more about that noble art, actually. Yeah, so coming, chiropodists. Yeah, come on, because everybody needs a chiropodist, particularly in later life when you, let's be honest... Can't reach. You can't reach, you can't get there. there'll be it's like that you know very sad rather poignant memory of the last time your child willingly held your hand in public there'll be a last time when we can touch our own feet that's very true and it'll it's coming up on the rails isn't it yeah i mean i've you know thanks to all my pilates it should be many decades before that actually comes for me do you think we should try and reinstate hand holding just amongst friends as well because you always used to hold your friend's hand, didn't you?

4:45Oh, yeah. Back in the day in primary school. Especially on school trips. Yes, very much so. And I think that would just be a nice thing to do now. I've got some friends at the moment. You know, everybody's having big things. But you'd have to slow down your walking. Oh, that's so true. I can't be able to do that. Who could hell be able to keep up with you? You'd have to be the most challenging three-legged race of all time. Because we were having a quite convivial chat when we left work yesterday, but in the end, we had to part because you just can't walk at the same pace as a normal human being.

5:14Anyway, if you know anyone in your life who's worn these lethal trousers successfully, let us know. Jane and Fee at Timestop Radio. Can I just say one final thing on this topic? I think also it's because people don't know how to hem anymore. Well, funny you should mention that. I did splash out on a pair of reasonably priced linen trousers over the last week. of course they were too long so i took them up and i wore them to travel to liverpool at the weekend yeah by the time i got to lime street one leg had just given up on my so-called hemming so i had one long leg and one reasonably lengthed leg so obviously i looked a complete weirdo in the end I just took off I took out the hem that had stayed in so you were wearing dangerous trousers by the time you got to scouse and I rolled them up at the midriff I mean obviously it looked ridiculous oh no it looked ridiculous it looked ridiculous but I own it I cannot do any kind of sewing I just didn't pay attention in I actually really resented doing needlework at school especially if like me you know my my very mild dyspraxia I'm not trying to make a thing of this but I really do have quite poor motor skills and I struggle I just couldn't also I couldn't see how to thread the needle because I didn't have the right specs not even sure I was wearing any specs.

6:36You just wouldn't have lasted in the Victorian era as a woman would you? What would you have ended up doing? I don't know what I'd have done but I often think about this in fact before talking professionally was invented for women what would either of us have done? We couldn't have been lumberjacks could we? That's very true. What do you think you would have done? I think... Oh, I would have cooked. I would have cooked. Oh, yes, you've got that in your skill set. I haven't got that. No, you can cook. I can't. Don't be ridiculous. Of course you can. I can cook. I can make a meal. No, come on. You did the most fantastic...

7:05No, not that. Not that again. Just because I made lettuce with gravy. I mean, a lot of people have talked about that and people said they should adopt it as a thing. Roast chicken. Yeah. Or lettuce. Yeah. It was lovely. Yeah. Thank you. It was lovely. Hello, Samantha. That's an old Cliff song. Hello Sam, Hello... No, what was it, the old Cliff song? Goodbye Sam, Hello Samantha. Are you familiar with that song? Sorry, what? It was a reasonably sized hit for the great man back in the, I'm going to say, very early 60s. I'm sorry, was this an early supporter of transitioning? No, what it was was a lament for his male friendships because his interest had turned to the ladies.

7:48So people will be able to find that song. It's out there. It's Sircliffe and it's Goodbye Sam, Hello Samantha. But Samantha has emailed the programme. I'm sorry. I'm surprised. Have you never heard that song? No, I haven't. Oh, that's cracking. I don't know why somebody hasn't done a cover of that more recently. I don't know why they haven't, especially as it would be quite topical. I said Samantha had emailed the programme. This isn't a programme. This is a podcast. as regular listeners will know. Samantha says, I love your podcast. It's been a massive help when I'm feeling a little bit homesick.

8:26Despite living outside the UK now for longer than I lived in England, it's often a nice distraction from parenting an autistic little boy who we adore, but it can be full on. This is the first time my extended family have met my son, so it's been a special visit. She's in London, having massive culture shock, she says. Hasn't been home for eight years. Wow. And it's an entirely different world. This is interesting. Samantha says, I live in San Jose. It's the hub of tech, but we still have people who take our order for coffee. Not so in Marks & Spencer here in London. I'm staying at an amazing hotel.

9:03It has air conditioning, but the heat in London has really been terrible. And I think we have been moaning about it, but people who visit London do acknowledge that there is something especially terrible about the London heat. It's because we're so... Is it the condensed buildings, the sheer number of people? I'm still laughing about Cliff. I don't know why. No, I'm just amazed that I haven't come across that song. I like to imagine that I've got a wide grazing ear. And that's just completely... I'm going to go straight to it after we finish this podcast. I think it's a combination of things, isn't it?

9:42We don't have air-conditioned public transport, so actually just getting around our city when it's hot is absolutely miserable and I think so many visitors who come from hotter climes cannot believe that. They can't believe that people who try to get to work every day are expected to do so in plus 40 degrees. And you and I travel on the Jubilee line to work. Have you got the last bit of your journey on the Jubilee line? Yes. Am I making that up? So it's one of the deepest tube lines. I mean, it's just been unbelievable. I've seen people who are so close to passing out. You know, you do have to help people.

10:16There was a lady who looked in real distress this morning, actually. And this is not even late. I mean, it's 10 o 'clock in the morning. Exactly, Jane. And also, this is just people trying to get to work. It's not an emergency situation. But, you know, there are definitely people who, you know, are put in an emergency situation by taking a tube to work. That's where we get it so wrong. And actually, if this is the summer that has affected change, then by next summer, something does have to have happened. It really does. Samantha goes on to say that she... I'm afraid this is a world that has escaped me.

10:47You might know more about it. She says, I was able to acquire a jelly cat bunny at Liberty. There were hundreds of people lining up and the security was just insane around the bunnies. Yeah, I just... I don't get the jelly cat thing at all. No, I don't. But, I mean, I totally respect people who have a thing for collecting. It's all about completing, being a completist. Do you remember the... Didn't we have... Was it Beanie Babies? And all of that. Beanie babies. There's always something, isn't there? Yeah. And it is jelly cat at the moment. I don't think, for me, the aesthetic is quite appealing enough to join in.

11:20I thought jelly cats were actually cats. I didn't realise they were bunnies. Obviously, they just veered into bunnies. I think they could... We're getting back to Cliff. I don't know what's going on there. I'm on wobbly territory here. I don't know anything else about the what's-it, what's-its. Samantha is going home today, so have a safe trip. And I'm glad you had a good time in London. and you're right actually about the the loss of people actually serving us i don't like those restaurants that you go into and you order at a screen mcdonald's well the mcdonald's yes but also everyone's doing it aren't they so it's who's the same leon's the same and uh you know but when you then go to the counter uh you're meeting somebody who's got nothing to say to you you've got nothing to say to them there's no need to have a conversation at all just things It's terrible.

12:07It's not very good, is it? No, I don't like it. God, I haven't had a McDonald's for ages. I think it's high time. What will you have? Quarter pounder, chips and a chocolate shake. What size chips? Oh, well, is there a medium? Yes, there is a medium prize. That's me. Medium prize, yeah. Empty chair, this one comes in from Jean, who says, have you heard of Empty Chairs UK? Have you, Jane Garvey? I hadn't, but I think this is interesting. It's amazing. It started when, after the founder's best friend took their own life, he decided to do something about it rather than turning in on himself. The premise is simple.

12:41The host books a table in a pub or coffee shop, wears orange, has some empty chairs and sees who turns up. You then just chat for as long or as little as you want with no pressure, agenda or age limit. It's only been going since the end of last year and already seems to have spread nationwide and beyond. This week there is an event in the Falkland Islands. It's a brilliant idea and although maybe won't appeal to your typical listeners, we will all know people who might benefit. My own daughter went along last week. She works from home, so has little or no interaction with real people during the week.

13:14She loved it and met people who had just moved into the area or worked weekend shifts, so never saw his friends, and the founder, who just happens to live in our area of South East Essex. What a fantastic idea. That's a great idea. Let's amplify that. So if you go into a pub or a coffee shop and there's somebody wearing orange and just sitting at a table, this is what it is empty chairs uk sit down have a chat spread the word i do think working from home is potentially completely shit for young people it's horrible i just don't i seem like a good idea yeah at the time not a good idea now at all i mean it was born of necessity wasn't it but then loads of companies adopted it because people seemed to want it but no i mean i think it's just it's a recipe for disaster.

14:02Well, I mean, move to London, which is a big ask of anybody, work from your bedroom in a shared house, see nobody, speak to nobody in real life. I just think that sounds awful and absolutely potentially quite disastrous. Yeah, I don't like that. Unless you have already got a massive set-up of loads of mates you can spend time with outside working hours. But one of the great joys of being in an office is, or any other kind of work setting, is being irritated by other people. Hugely. I absolutely love it. I mean, how big does a grab bag of hula hoops get and how long will it take everybody to get through it?

14:39Should we bring in a young person? Hannah is in charge this week. Do you like working in an office with real people? I do. And do you know what? Jokes aside, I just think it's nice because why would any of us spend time together in our real lives? That's very rude. Yes, that is rude. Do you know what I mean? We wouldn't come across each other. I would have sought you out. I wish. I don't think she'd have sought us out. I would have. But it's just nice, isn't it? Yeah, I completely agree. Because there's a group of people that you wouldn't interact with otherwise. And you learn so much, like I learn so much from both of you.

15:14I'll tell you what we like hearing about, and that's your nan. Now, she's got a few views, and I just love hearing them. What was it she said about that cardigan you sometimes wear? Oh, a cardigan. The yellow one. The yellow one. So I got a yellow cardigan earlier this year and it was a bit different for me, a different colour, a bit of a risk. And I was nervous about it. I sent it to my grandma's house. I'm not sure why. I was living in a flat at the time that wasn't very reliable. And then I went and tried it on and then I came down and she just went, oh, well, it looks better on. It looks better on, love.

15:51Well, there we are. That's what she said. And that's, it's sort of a compliment, that, isn't it? Yeah. And then my boyfriend, I brought him home. She went, you're not wearing barrel leg jeans, are you? God, they're awful. I hate those. I give you no shape, James. No shape. She says it as it is. Was that her opening salver? Yeah. Wow. Welcome to the family. She's the kind of lady who supports the England football team but bets on Norway to win. Okay. I like that. I absolutely love that. I've forgotten about that. Right. What's her first name? Elaine. Elaine. Right. Okay. We love Elaine. And can we just ask, without giving away too many secrets, how did young James respond to that?

16:32Did he pack up the barrel leg jeans and never wore them again, or is he wearing them confidently, as he should, actually? He's wearing them confidently, but I have noticed a little less than before. I think he gave her a cheeky smile and a wink. They've got a very playful relationship. They message quite a lot. It is me, Hannah. Right, OK. It's Elaine in the frame there I don't know where that story's going to end I don't think I want to know Shall we talk about offal? Yes, let's talk about offal I think that's much better We'll veer off into offal Sian has emailed She says she's a Welsh expat Living in a sheep and beef farm in New Zealand We're lucky enough to eat Now this is very much a carnivorous email That's just what it is And I eat meat Are you issuing a trigger warning?

17:24I am. I am issuing a trigger warning. Sian says, we are lucky enough to eat all our own meat. And my Kiwi husband is not only the abattoir, but also the gourmet butcher. His favourite part of killing the lamb is to put a steaming liver on a plate and just bring it down to the house. Gosh, I mean, I think we needed that warning. But as I say, I eat meat. This is real. Liver, bacon and onions is always next day's supper with a blob of creamy mashed potato to mop up the glorious gravy. In my opinion, that's the best bit, she says. Nothing goes to waste as the offal from the lamb is cooked in a big drum.

18:06We call it the offal cooker. That's for imaginative, isn't it? And duly fed to our dogs. Over here, dogs don't eat raw offal due to the risk of a disease called ovus or sheep measles. Wow, this is educational. One thing I love about New Zealand is the way you are allowed to kill and butcher meat for your own consumption. And on our farm, my husband always has. He always says the best animal goes to the house. It amazes me how this practical skill has been lost in the UK. And when we come home, he's often asked to kill a lamb on the sly. I mean, this is real life. I mean, obviously, a lot of people will be slightly, you know, a little bit squeamish about what Sian's had to say.

18:50But one of the first farm things my kids were involved in was helping my dad kill a sheep up in the woolshed as he firmly believed they needed to see the reality. I've been over here now for 30 years and have never ventured into the woolshed on those nights. Many thanks, Sian. Well, thank you, Sian, for telling us about your experience in New Zealand. I mean, as I say, I can't afford to be judgmental because I'm a meat eater like most people. But it is interesting, isn't it? Because it does make you feel, frankly, a little bit uneasy. And I really appreciate Sian's honesty. I don't eat lamb anymore.

19:28Don't you? No, for exactly that reason that I just, something has just changed. And for me, I know that it's on the conveyor belt towards vegetarianism, which I regard as my treat that lies at the end of parenting in the house. You can stop cooking meat. Yes, I can stop cooking meat once everybody's left and they've had all their respective vitamins and minerals. Well, I must admit, when I've got the house to myself, that's when I have a beef burger. Yeah, because you've got the opposite conveyor belt, haven't you? Yeah, I mean, well, one's left now, but, you know, she was the original vegan Vera.

20:03And I've got to be honest, V, those were challenging years. that, you know, I had quite a lot to do and then trying to think of something constructed to do with chickpeas. Yes, night after night. Anyway, she's left. I mean, you know, we're not estranged. She's just taken her wind somewhere else. She's gone to North London, as everybody seems to. Well, certainly, there's definitely a beacon for the vegans in our neck of the woods. That's true. I've only just recently discovered the black chickpea. Have you discovered this before? I'm a complete stranger to it. It's a very, very dark chickpea. It's absolutely delicious.

20:42Different taste, different texture. Yes, much more nutty, actually. Okay. Just lovely. Is it like a little sweet? No, it's somewhere between... Because the chickpea doesn't really taste very much, does it? Oh, gosh, I mean, that's very controversial. Do you think it is? Well, I think people would try to tell you. I mean, those big, you know, the fat ones in the jar. Yeah, but they put something in that jar that makes all pulses a little bit sexier, doesn't it? What are you doing at Bold Beans? Yes, but they do. They're bringing out a fruitiness that's not available in a normal tin. That's true.

21:20But the black chickpea, yes, it's definitely much... It's slightly crunchier and a bit smokier. That's what it is. Smokier. It's a bit smokier. I'm enjoying it enormously. This one comes in from Amy, who says, Greetings from across the pond. Speaking of offal, earlier this year I was enjoying a week in the lovely village of Corbridge in Northumberland. I've been told that the butcher shop sold the best scones in town, so I duly popped in. Whilst I was waiting for my sweet treat, I overheard an older lady ask the butcher for three pounds of ox liver. Yes, that's the detail that... Yes, it's astonishing.

21:54Never have I felt the chasm between our two cultures run so wide or so deep. What on earth could anybody want with three pounds of ox liver? I'm genuinely curious but equally afraid to know. Well, we share your slight fear, Amy. And Amy's PS is you may remember me as the American lady from the ladies' personal ad section circa 2025. Oh, that was brilliant. Still looking for my British dreamboat. Do you know what? We never really discussed the demise of the lady. I mean, it's gone now, isn't it? The magazine has well and truly. It's defunct. It didn't get bought. we rather hoped it might get resurrected in a digital form just because we were enjoying the personal ads so much, as were so many other people.

22:36To return to the beginning of this podcast, Gerald. Gerald, I think, would have had a few success stories via the personal ads in The Lady. There were also so many intriguing ads in that publication for domestic staff, weren't there? Which, I mean, just you forget that life exists. Well, I didn't know it really ever existed, but some of those ads were just incredible. Weren't they just? And it was usually for a couple who were then going to be given a cottage in the grounds of the estate and duties would include some mild, awful butchering, 24-hour childcare and probably looking after a lady. Yes, probably.

23:15And people were obviously very happy. I mean, it's a lovely life. It's an absolutely lovely life. My granny's family were all in service and really weirdly about two streets away from where I ended up living in East London. Oh, yeah, but you're telling me this, right? So spooky. Isn't that strange? Yeah, yeah. Sometimes life can really, I don't know, bite you on the bottom a bit with spooky coincidence. So he was basically the kind of go-to everything handyman of the house and his wife, my granny's mum, was the serving maid, as she would have been called. And, yeah, they lived in North London.

23:50And just by sheer coincidence, I ended up living three streets away. Or was it, Jane? Bromley. Spooky Tuesday in Bromley Well it's not Bromley but yes Can you tell me your thoughts about The Devil Wears Prada 2 which you wanted to discuss a very long time ago and we finally got around You've seen it now have you? to watching it on Sunday night because you did ask me a couple of times to watch it Oh right I didn't go to the Kinamar but as I was watching it I thought what did Jane want to say about this? I can't remember what it was you're still good asking me now it was months ago I probably had some very strong opinions for about three days and then gave up having them because you didn't have anything to say.

24:29I just remember thinking that everybody was very thin, apart from the one character who wasn't. Charlie, assistant number two. It was just a bit strange, wasn't it? Stanley Tucci had some great suits. I do remember that. And what else did I... I don't think there's anything else that I would observe. I must admit, what I liked about it was that it... I was going to say, it passed the time and it wasn't too long. This is why I'm not a film critic. But I thought there was an enjoyable atmosphere in the cinema. Okay, that's interesting. That's hopeless, isn't it? Did you see it at home? So we saw it at home.

25:07Is it streaming now? It is streaming now. And maybe that's what we were missing, was a lot of other people thoroughly enjoying and evening out. Yeah, because they were, I felt. Because the plot was... Well, it's waffer thin. like most of the cast. Beyond Waffer Thin. I thought the clothes were exceptional but definitely if you had the figure of a coat hanger. Stanley Tucci just now deliciously plays Stanley Tucci. I'd like to think he's given up on any kind of method acting and he is just Stanley Tucci. I'm always happy to see him. I mean, he's suave and sophisticated and he just looks so hygienic.

25:48He just looks like a very, very hygienic man. He does look spruce, doesn't he? Yes, he does. It would be a right old letdown if you met him and he was a bit... It was basically stinky. I can't believe he is. I don't think he would be at all. Meryl Streep is so beautiful as an older Meryl Streep, isn't she? I mean, really, really amazingly, amazingly beautiful. Did I tell you I went to dinner with her once?

26:13I want to talk about offal again, because Sonia... Sonia says... Yes. My ex-husband once bought lamb hearts from the supermarket. I think the ex is doing a bit of heavy lifting there. I gave them to our delighted and grateful cat and feigned ignorance that they were meant for human consumption. Right. A friend once went to a Chinese restaurant in Somerset where the waitress asked, would you like to hear about our aorta special? He said no. Right. OK, I mean, do you think we've exhausted awful? I think we might have done. But people are still eating it. That was the question I asked. Oh, I should just bring in Dave, who grew up in Liverpool and can't stand sport.

26:58Never been to a football match in his life, he says. And I'm not sure if I've really missed out on anything. I'm no problem with the TV channels being taken over by the World Cup. Lots of people love it. It's a good thing that there's a shared sense of excitement. But I think I'll just water the garden a bit more, he says. And I do, I appreciate people who just haven't got a scrap of interest and they don't want to feign it. And why the hell should you? You enjoy yourself, Dave, in the garden. He's grew up, he says, eating offal. Doesn't eat it every week or every month, but does enjoy a bit of kidney in a pie or a stew.

27:30Liver and mashed potato in onion gravy is one of life's true comfort foods, he says. And, of course, pate. Loads of people eat pate without a thought. Is it the idea of what it is rather than the taste, I wonder? I do think that's true because people don't... They do eat pate without questioning how it was produced and the offal ingredient. I mean, chicken liver pate is made of chicken livers and cream. That's basically it, isn't it? Is it? Anyway, I hope if you live near Dave, you get to admire his garden because he's going to be out doing a lot of watering tomorrow evening. And tomorrow evening would be a great time to sneak into a gallery that you usually can't get into to get a table at a previously booked out restaurant.

28:11You know, there will be a lot of opportunities for the non-sporting person. So make the most of them. Yeah, my younger offspring was trying to find a pub with room for tomorrow night. Finally, I finally nailed one down. But shall we say, Fee, in quite an unfashionable destination. Really? Yes. I'll just write it down and express amazement this is how far she's had. OK. Oh, dear. Is that Zone 4? I have to get my food beyond it. No offence. What happens beyond Zone 4? Nobody knows. final one from me we've got a fantastic guest who is it a guest who giveth energy andy oliver is on the podcast today she's talking about her work with water aid but we talk about lots of other things too i've pretended we've already done the interview there but we haven't yet i got confused which is why i kept you waiting in here for 10 minutes i was outside looking at books no i was doing a different pre-recorded interview with a fantastic man called richard which you'll be able to hear i think is the friday bonus episode so he's a former prison inmate whose life in prison was really turned around by yoga and it's one of those things that that you just you know what the reaction of some people will be to that statement but i would defy you not to listen to richard's story and perhaps change your mind okay that's interesting a little bit he's got some very interesting things to say about re-offending rates in particular he was a total yoga beginner so he had been to one yoga class before on the outside and hated it and then when he was inside and a real low point he saw an ad in prison for yoga and he openly admits he just went along he just wanted to get out of his cell for an hour but there was something that really worked for him and and he credits it with having kept him on the straight and narrow through his passage leaving prison apart from anything else

30:38Apple Watch Series 12 conditions requires iphone 11 or later oh i just wanted to say that i was really sad to hear about the death of patricia green who's the actress who played jill archer all those years in ambridge uh she really did serve her time and i don't know how many lemon drizzle cakes and how many flapjacks that woman had made uh but she died at the age of 95 and you know she was still working from her care home she would um they would send a producer in and she would record wow some of her lines so So I met her actually once and she was a very, very, I was going to know, sweet would be the wrong word because she was much sparkier than sweet suggests and she had, shall we say, a sense of humour about Ambridge and its residents.

31:25But she was absolutely a lovely woman, so I was very sorry to hear about that. Right, let's bring in our guest, Andy Oliver. Menopause is long, isn't it? It's long, isn't it? Isn't it interesting? That's the one thing they don't tell you is how long. You sort of get warned a little bit. You know, there are pointers about things that might be a bit tricky. But what nobody says is that 10 years later, it's still happening. And has it got better for you or worse? It's got better for me because I'm on hormones. Yeah. But I did fall foul of the deadly too much testosterone putting on. Do you know about this?

32:02What happened to you? I became a gnarly bloke, basically. I was like, what? What do you mean? couldn't work out why I wanted to punch everyone in the face and then I realized it was because I was putting on too much testosterone and I literally turned into a sort of pubescent like stroppy teenage boy it was really fascinating anthropologically really disturbing personally and so you felt a um an aggression that I've never felt before in my life and impatience like really like one of the girls that works for me was saying I was going well it's a prom what do you think it is like just really gnarly and unpleasant actually and then I thought do you know what I think I'm like you know what you're having too much of that discussion and I stopped it like cold turkeyed it went weird again for another two days and then leveled back out and I was like it's definitely this and then spoke to Dr Louise Newsome who is the HRT brilliant woman to talk to and she said oh my god you've got to be so careful with it it's like a you're supposed to put like a kind of like it almost like a tiny little marble sized on I mistook the energy of it at the beginning well the feeling of it was energy so I started putting more on because that's what I'm like I'm like oh I like that I'll have more I never read dosages on things I never I mean it's ridiculous I'm a grown person I really should but I was like also you're a chef It should matter.

33:31It should matter, right? But I was like, oh, this is fantastic. I'll have more. And then I mistook aggression for energy. So I kept thinking I feel really like I've got some vibes. Yeah, brilliant. And actually, I was just vile for about a month. Absolutely vile. Right. Well, thank God you stopped because otherwise... Yes, so careful of the testosterone. You'd be running for prime minister and then you'd be invading the Middle East. And I'll win. You would. Yep. And interrupting everybody else's conversations with incredibly unhelpful suggestions. Standing with your legs akimbo going, it'll cost you enough.

34:05And we'd all be... We'd be worse off if you were a bloke, Andy. Can I just say that? I like the fact that you're still a woman. I don't think you would be good, would it? You know what we don't need? A bloke me. That's not what anybody needs. Right, we will come back to talk about some of your other stuff. But I know that you've got something very important to talk about here. And we are absolutely happy to give you a platform to do this. So, I have just got back from Malawi fee with the Wimbledon Foundation and WaterAid. I had what I can only describe as a profound journey. It was extraordinary, this trip.

34:37I've never been to Malawi before. It's southern East Africa. I've never been there before. It's one of, it's a country with a lot of challenges. It's quite poor. There are a lot of rural communities that don't have access to water. And this seems like on paper, it's like, oh that must be troublesome or tricky challenging but actually what it means the practical reality of what it means to not have access to clean water on a daily basis is just so deep like I met a woman called Dina who has to fetch water eight times a day she gets up at two o 'clock in the morning to go down the side of quite a precipitous mountain every single day and then she comes back up with 20 litres of water on her head and this woman when I tell you this woman was one of the most positive hopeful joyful people I've ever met in my life it was a really humbling experience because I kept meeting people who had challenges that to me would have been insurmountable because I'm spoiled and I'm from Suffolk do you know what I mean and yet they traversed them with this incredible positivity and hope and what I realized was that when so they've got water coming to her village Dina's got water coming to her village in four weeks time because there's this new technology that they've um developed which means that they can go I think it was 60 meters they were able to go down now and now they can get like 120 so they've had this brilliant water consultant in he's found water so they are drilling as we speak so they're making a borehole they will collect the water will be sent up to tanks and this village is going to have water in four weeks time and when I said to Dina what will that mean for you she said it means I'll be able to be a mother to my children I'll be able to spend time with my husband and I'm a carpenter I'm going to open a shop and she's going to make picture frames and furniture and do all this stuff and I thought gosh she's got so much like engagement with her future so many dreams so much hope and so much real genuine attachment to it you know she really is driven by this brilliant brilliant energy and I was just inspired by that and to be around people who could harness that kind of positivity in the face of such a challenging daily existence so then I went to another village Tundu and uh where they'd already had water brought to them and this place is buzzing it's like it's on the edge of transformation you can feel the energy and it's growing you can almost see it physically happening around here there's building everywhere there are three massive tanks in the middle of the village and then two of those tanks are to service Kangolwa health centre which is this extraordinary health centre that's been there for quite a long time it didn't have water and now they have water prior to having water they had problems with cross infection women had to give birth then go down the side of yet another mountain down the side just to wash in a sort of very small pond really after they're given birth literally hours after they're given birth they're going down the side of a mountain and then they were vulnerable people would slip and hurt themselves people got attacked it was just a horrible set of circumstances after the advent of water they've got showers they've got toilets they've got these brilliant facilities it's it's this incredible health centre that is more than just a health centre it's more like a community hub it's like the heart of the community this place and two of the tanks of water service Kangolwa and the other tank services the village itself so people can wash their clothes they can shop they can cook they can do all sorts of brilliant things and there's a great tagline that WaterAid have that just says everything starts with water and it really it hits you so hard the truth of that simple sentence you mentioned the wimbledon foundation so what is the connection between the wimbledon foundation this and the tennis so wimbledon foundation i think money that we spend at wimbledon you know it's a bag and you're like oh it's quite a lot of my 10 pounds but actually the money that you're spending at wimbledon for those tickets and all that stuff that all of the revenue that they create part of that funds the wimbledon Foundation.

39:04The Wimbledon Foundation have these brilliant projects that they partner with other people to deliver in lots of different places. One of those projects is with WaterAid in Malawi and it's just fantastic seeing where that money goes, how it affects people in real life terms, how it affects them on the ground, in their lives, day to day. It's got a huge impact. It's just brilliant fee. So I don't think many people would make that connection and see behind the All English tennis club and the strawberries and cream to a project like this in Malawi. And I love that Wimbledon Foundation does that work, actually, because as you say, it's kind of slightly incongruous.

39:44You don't really even necessarily think about anything further than the tennis, do you? But actually, they're very invested in the future of the next generations of people coming up in places more than just here in the UK. And I think that's a brilliant thing. So what a contrast. You go on this amazing trip to Malawi. But then you did mention, as you came into the studio, you had also been at Wimbledon this summer, which I think is just, I know that Al Karaz wasn't there, Emma Radicale didn't make it there, whatever. It was still unbelievable. I saw Arthur Ferry. Arthur Ferry, okay. Arthur Ferry, sweet boy.

40:21Oh my God, he's so adorable. So tell me about the atmosphere on court for Arthur Ferry. Electric. And it was like, he's everybody, Everybody is his auntie. Everybody is his uncle or his, you know what I mean, or like cousin. That's what it felt like. He was playing and the whole court was willing him on. And tell me about Wimbledon itself for people. Have you been? So I went years and years ago, but I'll just be honest about this, Andy. I was a guest of the BBC, so I went in, you know, a special entrance. I mean, it was glorious, absolutely glorious. We saw the match of all matches. We saw Roger Federer versus Rafa Nadal.

40:59Oh, that match! You were there! But the awful thing, Angie, was... No, the awful thing. I was pregnant at the time, and I was about seven and a half months pregnant, and I just needed to have a week all the time. And we were sitting right in the middle of the box. We were sitting next to George Osborne and his wife. Were you in the Royal Box? Not the Royal Box, but the BBC box. I don't think it was the Royal Box. Can't have been the Royal Box. I've been in the Royal Box. Have you, darling? Well, come to that and just say that. I will make my anecdote very brief, because I want to know about yours more.

41:26But we were sitting next door to people who, quite rightly, and I'm not saying that George Osborne was ticky about it at all. He was very understanding. But I just kept on having to go out and say, I'm so sorry, excuse me. I'm so sorry, excuse me. So after the second set, my husband and I just said, do you know what, we're just slightly ruining it for everybody else. Let's just go home. I'm sure Federer's going to win. And then, of course, McDowell. It just went. It was one of the matches, the greatest tennis matches of all time. Of all time, I remember it. And we left. Tell me about your Royal Box experience Well the Royal Box was a few years ago actually and it was, I mean it's ridiculously fancy, it's the fanciest day of your life basically Me and my partner Garfield were there with Sophie Okonedo this brilliant chef I know called Céline was there and we were all hanging out together and at one point Sophie or somebody said so you have this really fancy lunch we had lunch with Stanley Tucci and the Blunts and all sorts of, you know, it's this ridiculous thing going on and every time you turn around i met shirley bassett made an absolute fool of myself because i lost the ability to speak i garfield said you've got to go over and speak to her and that's not like you i know he said you've got to go and speak to her because she's my all-time hero i wanted to be her her or eartha kit were my options as a child so i went over and i said miss bassett i just have to tell you how much you've influenced my life and i just want to thank you so much and i managed to get that and then she asked me a question and i went i couldn't i literally Annie lost the ability and she looked at me like oh bless like you poor thing who works for carer she was looking for my carer and I just had to leave I was so embarrassed and the poor guy that was here they looked at me like what is the matter with you oh Andy I'm sorry but anyway it's just the sheer power of it when you're sitting in that in the court watching them is breathtaking you can't believe the athleticism you can't believe how strong they are and you can't believe the endurance It just really makes you feel a bit quite tiny and weak.

43:27Yeah, which you're not. Which I'm not. No, neither of those things. And just to return to your visit to Malawi for a bit. So when you meet people whose lives have been so dictated by the scarcity of a resource like water that we completely and utterly take for granted, when you come back to this country, does it genuinely change something about yourself? And also, Andy, you work in an industry, in the restaurant and food business, which has gone in quite a polarised direction, hasn't it? The stuff at the top, so over the top. So expensive. So at the top, yes. So at the top, and yet right down at the bottom, so rubbish.

44:16So tell me where your head lies. oh the bottom's so rubbish well yes that's true um my head lies uh do you mean in in relation to to coming back with the knowledge that i have from malawi yes whether it does kind of you know whether i can imagine you being more cynical and i'd understand that no i'm not really i think what's happened for me is that literally every time i turn on the tap or take it for granted i think don't take it for granted you might you there but for the grace of god you would not have this you know this tiny little sliver of sort of shit so when I did my DNA I discovered that I some of my DNA is from the West Bantu people loads of people in Malaria West Bantu people and I they were teaching me words and she said you're saying them really really well we went through this thing and I said oh I discovered that I've got West Bantu blood actually and she said oh it's your blood is remembering which I thought was quite a deep thing to say I was like oh my god but I just feel like we are inches away from our humanity and our human experience being something completely different all the time and that's something that we forget to hear in this country you know we could be living on the street the the difference between us like sitting in a studio and then losing our job and losing our house it can be moments that you know tiny little things happen which turn people's lives around so um coming back from somewhere Malawi what somewhere like Malawi has meant for me that I just feel that all of that is in much more stark contrast than it usually is, I suppose.

45:50Whether that will last, I hope that it lasts because it's made me more thoughtful. It's made me more thoughtful about the work that we do. It's made me more grateful for all the things that I've got in my life. And it's made me really want to go back to Malawi, actually, and see how people like Dina are getting on in a year's time when they've had water for a whole year. I want to see her carpentry shop. I want to see all the things that she's going to bring into being. She went, I'm going to be like you. I'm going to do whatever I want. And I was like, I really want that for you. I really want you to be able to do whatever you want and to be able to follow your dreams and to do those things.

46:24I guess the one thing that I really kept thinking about since I got back is this idea of community and like social, real connection, human social connection. And community is a word that is bandied around quite a lot. and it's like lost a lot of its real heft and power. But it's actually such a huge thing, how we connect to each other as human beings, how important that is on a daily kind of minutiae level. You know, it's something that we can really forget. People are always moaning because they can hear their neighbours or moaning because there's people playing in the park or moaning because they can't park their car.

47:02And it's like, do you know what? We're so lucky that you've got neighbours. You're so lucky that there's a park. We're so lucky that we've got each other. so it's made me remember to step towards the gratitude in my life and the good things in my life and the simple pleasures and comforts that I've got in my life but not to to to also at the same time as being grateful and happy about all of that to remember to do things that uplift our neighbour yeah and each other can I get political with you please yes please so working in the restaurant business, catering business, chefing business, we know that so many parts of that industry are absolutely on their knees and there does seem to be something different coming over the horizon in terms of policy towards the restaurant industry.

47:53If Andy Burnham does what Andy Burnham said he was going to do which is to take a look at business rates, to take a look at VAT, to do something to help hospitality, what do you want from him? I want them to listen to the industry and to be realistic about what's going on. You know, there's a lot of conversation where, you know, at the moment there's been chat that is a bit like, well, the top end's doing okay, so everything must be all right. How can it possibly be all right when you can see how many pubs and restaurants are closing every single day? Also, pubs and restaurants are doing quite well, by the way.

48:28It's not necessarily pubs and restaurants that are empty. People are closing who are full all the time because they can't afford to turn the lights on. if that is the situation how can you possibly justify the framework that's in place right now it's just it just it doesn't make any sense to me it doesn't make any sense to anyone and it's also double VAT is double what it is in the rest of Europe where we have really healthy restaurant industries you know Spain and Italy go to all these gorgeous little places they're doing fine thank you very much so it's just logical and it makes total sense to bring things into line with the rest of Europe, whether we're part of Europe or not, and make things manageable.

49:09Because the hospitality industry employs so many people. It makes brand new jobs for loads of young people. It creates this incredible environment where people who didn't necessarily do brilliantly at school or didn't necessarily work, aren't able to work through different areas, suddenly thrive and suddenly find themselves with the talent that they didn't know they had and suddenly can do this brilliant, beautiful thing that everybody needs on a daily basis. It's such a basic, beautiful service that we deliver. So it should be supported and it should be nurtured. And it's also a place that AI can't get to.

49:48AI won't be able to walk across a restaurant, serve you with a smile. It won't be able to chop onions in a kitchen. AI can't make a great omelette. AI can't whip up some amazing saltfish boujol. Can it? Excuse me. I know. I thought you'd like that word. Very, very classy, Andy. But, you know, AI can't do that. And I think that's, you know, it's one of the brilliant parts of Orange. There's all sorts of other areas that are alarming, you know. And do you think that this is a crisis point like there has not been in your lifetime? I've never seen anything like this before. I mean, I've never seen it in any industry.

50:25You know, it's the same with actors that I know. It's the same with writers, producers, directors. as suddenly all the things that we've taken for granted for years, and it's in broadcasting as well, all the things that have just been part of our daily lives and part of our daily reality, the shift is vast. But you can't replace, I mean, the clue is in the title, artificial. You know, you can't, artificial and the real deal will never be the same because you can't, it's a facsimile of something that is a human, it's like trying to replicate the human heart, you can't, that shift in music that groove where it slips a little bit because it's made by human beings as soon as you get a machine to make that you lose the sexiness of the music you lose the heartbeat you lose that kind of human nuance that you know nothing can replicate that yeah you and I once worked at the radio station together we did way way back in the day when I started yeah actually I mean I was nervous to talk to you Andy because you're so super cool I mean you were super super cool back then you're super super cool now i can't believe that uh you are i think are you already in your 60s i'm 63 63 congratulations thank you what did that andy oliver way back i mean we're talking the early 1990s a long time ago what do you think a she would make of what you've achieved which i think is phenomenal uh and just talk me through what you would have liked her to know back then i oh bless her she was she was having quite a hard time you know i was i was uh struggling with depression and grief and all sorts of things at that time really when i first met you i was really just coming through starting to come through some of that the grief of losing my brother and all sorts of problems that i'd had after that i had eating disorder and all sorts of things i was just starting to see the light again actually when I met you I think can I just say then how how amazing because I remember the Andy Oliver that I met back then not giving any of that away actually Andy I mean you was I thought you were super confident you were part of this amazing music scene in London we were working on a station that was predominantly music wasn't it and you carried yourself with so much confidence I would never have known that that was such a dark time and also So I thought you were incredibly cool and smart and brainy.

52:53I was like, oh, my God, she's so quick. How am I going to keep up? Well, I thought when I met you. Remember we did a couple of broadcasts together. We did, didn't we? And you went girl on girl action. And I went, ah!

53:08Oh, dear, what a loving this has turned into. Isn't that funny, though, when you look back at moments, like sort of, you know, a strand of time like that, and you just never know what's going on inside another person. I was a real mess, actually. um i think i might just started to be having been having a little bit of therapy around about that time so i was starting to find a vocabulary for it but i was not in a good place at all i wish for her to answer your first question that um she knows there's another side and there's a there's a side that there's a light at the end of the tunnel that actually just keep doing what you're doing keep putting one foot in front of the other and also that you're right by the way you should do the things you love don't start letting other people tell you what to do because you know there's been so many times in my life where I have stepped towards it you know you just got to be I've never been scared to be broke basically which is just as well because I've been broke for most of my life I'm not now what I was for so many years and it's because I never was able to do the things that other people thought I should do to make money and to to you know have go down a path that they were deemed to be the route to success so to speak um but actually the path I was going down was perfectly fine and I was on the right route for me so I would like her to know that you're on the right route just keep doing what you're doing and keep putting one foot in front of the other and don't forget to breathe dear girl and what would she think of you now I think she'd be all right with me now I think I'm I'm I'm the best version of myself and I've never lost myself along the way I don't think and I think she I think she would be relieved that I've learned how to breathe in and out fully and to to have faith in myself you know because that was always my um I would have faith in myself and then have so maybe racked with doubt and like oh I've just just messed it up again because me and my mouth you and your big mouth do you know what I mean there was I was constantly opening my mouth foot in mouth syndrome, but actually it's all right.

55:07You know, I think there's so many young people feel like that or younger people feel like that, like that they don't have a right to be in the room or at the table or whatever anybody wants to call it. And yes, you do. And just the thing that you find to be true is enough. Well, I was in awe of you then. I'm in awe of you now. How lovely to catch up with you, Andy. Always be. Thank you very much. A delight. Andy Oliver, a firm supporter of WaterAid. It is a great charity. We just take it for granted, don't we? We turn on the tap. Sometimes at the moment I slightly complain to myself because the water's a bit warm when it comes out because of our hot summer.

55:49I know, but we shouldn't complain. We shouldn't complain at all. Tomorrow we're going to get some style tips from Amanda Wakeley. What will you wear for that interview? Well, I've been debating exactly this. I think I'll do my Wednesday dowdy level best to live down to expectations. So Amanda can, you know, attempt to zhuzh me up a little bit. But the trouble is her book is quite interesting. She's written a book about, what's it called? I can't remember. Style. Style DNA. Style DNA. And actually my mum was quite, she was a stylish dresser, but I'm afraid to say it hasn't, I haven't got it. I'll never have it.

56:29I don't have it I dress pretty much for comfort don't say anything, don't rush to contradict that and she hasn't everybody but I do think so many clothes look great on somebody of 5 foot 8, 9 and 10 and they're not going to be anyway, Amanda Wakeley is with us tomorrow which I'm looking forward to one day I think we should both wear our blue and white striped shirts and our light coloured trousers because apart from anything else, we just look like Wimbledon officials. We could sit on either side of the desk and just call it out. Shout out. Aight. Aight? Yes. They don't really need to do that anymore, do they?

57:11No. That's been taken over by the computer. Oh, yes. Well, I will look forward to seeing, don't call yourself dowdy. I'm hoping that you'll wear, I think you've got a, no, you've got a very nice green and white summer dress. I'd like to see that tomorrow. Oh, perhaps I could wear that, actually. Thank you. Yes, I'll wear that. So wear that and we will discuss style DNA with Amanda Wakeley. That's it from us. Goodbye. Enjoy your liver.

57:48Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.

58:52Transcription by CastingWords The story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch Series 12. For general wellness purposes only. Not intended for clinical use or to detect, diagnose, monitor or treat medical conditions. Requires iPhone 11 or later.