He spends quite a lot of time having sex with a cushion... (with Lady Glenconner)

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0:34It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the U.S.

1:14offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Listen to this Acast show ad-free on Amazon Music with your Prime membership or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

2:10I've got a lovely card, a handwritten card from Caroline in Nutsford. Yes, I like Nutsford. It's a lovely place. How lovely. it just says Nutsford she said that oh my gosh so are you are you in the club that can't get on a bus to Cockfosters are you it was a train yeah okay okay get yourself to Minge Lane Caroline in

2:40Nutsford just says Diffie I couldn't resist this car if you can be with East London vibes that's so lovely it's got a picture of a cat dressed up uh and uh called cool cat yes oh cool cat he's so lovely so so lovely he's my absolute favorite cat but i say that about all of them as they approach the end of days of the cat world uh is yeah is he your senior feline he is so yeah he's uh nearly 17 oh my goodness i didn't realize right again gosh and he's just he's so happy jane so he's just disappeared into that world of just appetites. So he lives for food and we do. We completely overfeed him. He's a very skinny creature these days.

3:21And he also spends quite a lot of time having sex with a cushion. Lovely. Right. And we used to try and stop it and now we just go, go for it love, he's 17 and nothing else going on. So we just call it a sex cushion. It's alright. We've got some very esoteric topics coming up. We have, no we honestly have. No, we really have. I did wake up in the middle of the night still thinking about the rat-an chair.

3:52I can't find a showing of wicker in my area. I don't know what's going on. Is it all sold out? It just doesn't seem to be on, so I'm getting a bit... But then I actually thought to myself in the middle of the night, we have got a couple of easy chairs. I mean, they're called easy chairs for a reason. You know, are they in fact chairs with absolutely no moral scroopers whatsoever. They'll have anything. Well, quite possibly. Yeah. Can we just do some very brief and official stuff about the Johnny Mercer book? We did say, Eve, our colleague, did say that she would send one free copy out. And in fact, I've also donated my own copy, not because I don't want to.

4:27I've read the book and it is interesting. But as Eve pointed out, I often accompany reading workbooks with a bag of spicy, highly flavoured nuts. And some of the dust from the nuts is in the book, isn't it? Nuts! The peanuts. Yes, it is. I tend not to offer Jane's copies of books with authors that we've had on because they do often have kind of a residue. Yeah, all right. Sometimes they're stained. Yeah, but... So, two free copies are going to be sent out. I'm sorry for the person who came second because that's the book you'll be getting. Yeah, and that, unfortunately, is our friend Ali who is in Reno in Nevada.

5:09Well, I mean, I think the peanut dust will have settled by the time it reaches. Yeah, I hope you find the book interesting, Ellie. And also, a more pristine copy is going to Diana in Hayes in Middlesex. So enjoy. I opened the copy of David Sedaris's, I can't remember, I think, is it something called When the World's Engulfed in Flames? I'd taken it on holiday to Austria back in the summer to read. there was a very, very lovely seagull that we named Dave who came to sit with us most days and Dave dropped a feather before the end of the holiday so I kept it inside the David Sedaris as a beautiful memento thinking I'll open that again hopefully, you know, 10, 20 years time and have a beautiful memory well I opened it this morning and Dave's feather had come complete with a little worm right, so that was still alive still alive?

6:03It was just creepy. So obviously it was a louse that came back on the feather of Dave. So I would just say shake it out in Reno. Just shake the book out in Reno. Outdoors, just in case something like that has happened. It's got a long way to travel, that copy of Johnny Mercer's book. It's going to cost more than Johnny Mercer's book. Or Johnny Mercer. Yes, exactly. Well, no, he can't be bought, which is one of the points he makes quite clearly in his book. How much has he been offered, though? What price do you think he could be bought for? Me? Actually, there are many reasons why I didn't go into politics.

6:41It's because I probably wouldn't cost very much at all. I'll be taking backhanders all over the shop. Well, of course, people who scam in our name, they're demanding all kinds of sums of money, but they're really odd sums of money, and that's the problem. And they're also sometimes insultingly small sums of money, which we would never ask for. If you have ever been on the receiving end of one of these emails, It's not us. It's not us. We'd never do that. We'd never ever ask for money to appear on Times Radio or indeed on this podcast. No, and no media outlet would. No. So it's the other way round.

7:14With some media outlets, you're paid to go on, but you should never ever even countenance someone who says, you've got to pay me to come on. So, and we're really sorry about that though, because we know that some people just will have paid the money actually, Jane. That's the truth of it. Oh, it's awful, yeah. And then you probably feel too embarrassed to admit that you have and there's no way of getting it back. And we're just really sorry about that. There are some nasty old people out there at the moment. Have you changed any of your online activities because of the weakness that has been discovered in the last 24 hours in major, major...

7:46Well... What would you call it? The tech backup of... Well, that's the problem. I don't quite understand what it is that's happened. ...of banks and stores and online marketplaces. the floor has been discovered that would easily allow hackers in to get your passwords and all of that type of stuff i haven't changed anything that's the terrible thing i looked at my phone i thought should i delete all those apps and then i just thought no somebody will save me and that's mad isn't it it is mad but i've done the same as you i'm just waiting um shall we just move on to areas we find easier to deal with the book club very much so we have really loved all of your suggestions and I think we've had more discussion about this choice for the book club than any of the other ones before and I think it's enabled quite a lot of people to go and ask young men in their lives what it is that they're reading and spark up quite a lovely conversation so hurrah for that.

8:40Should we just run through a couple of the suggestions before we've all came to the same conclusion didn't we in our pre-meeting briefing meeting briefing before. Yes we did. But What have some of the suggestions been in your pile? Well, I was quite intrigued by this Dungeon Crawler Carl book, which a lot of people mentioned. But our new colleague, James, here on Times Radio, on the afternoon show, two to four, he was saying that he'd read it and it was just complete pants in his view and he seems like an intelligent young man. So I was interested in that and that slightly put me off the idea.

9:13But there's no doubt that book has been, I mean, it's pretty much omnipresent and it appears to have been much enjoyed. then there was a sci-fi book that sounded on the face of it quite good but i've read a bit more about it and it's been on netflix and i don't know whether that's really for us but science fiction is probably a genre we should do perhaps after we've done we've done this what do you think i think maybe after i've left after you've left do you not really do you really not like it at all no no i don't like it much either but i wonder whether i just don't understand it and that's why i don't like it yeah i don't know i did as a you know a teenage nerd try to read asimov didn't go all that well but i look good attempting to read it yeah that's the thing i thought i did um i i probably do need to open my mind a bit i haven't tried that much science fiction but i just never enjoyed it i don't really enjoy it whatever format it comes in i don't i just never really liked doctor who i just i find it very different i find it there's more intriguing stuff for me in this world than I can ever possibly start to understand.

10:18I can't begin to take on other worlds. Well, can I just say, we haven't mentioned Bromley and we're very close to Halloween. Very close. It's not really a Halloween It's creeping up on us this year. It's not really a Halloween spook. It's just very odd. So some of the suggestions that have come in Elizabeth with an S of my two 20-something sons, both avid readers, one likes to read mostly non-fiction, has a great interest in World War II. The other bits of both, so they have gone through Bill Bryson, Ben McIntyre, Douglas Adams, Game of Thrones, Tolkien. Both loved Harry Potter. The suggestion...

10:56From Jacob in Bristol, who does like sci-fi and fantasy, Terry Pratchett, something by Graham Greene or Patricia Highsmith will also entertain him. Have you read Fatherland by Robert Harris? Fatherland by Robert Harris, yes. And you really liked it? I did. I like all his books. I haven't got into his new one, Agrippa. No, I haven't got into that. It's proved not to be Agrippa. Oh, that's very good. Fatherland is, I think, yes, I have read it. Yeah, I have. Because Jackie, her son, had really not read very much at all. And then the first book that he got really stuck into was Fatherland by Robert Harrison.

11:38Which is quite a, I mean, that's quite a big start, actually, isn't it? Yes. I would have thought. Yes, I suppose it is. But it's a very involving story and it's something that you plunge into a world. Thank you very much from kind regards, Fran, from Edinburgh as well, who was interested in our discussion and our curiosity. My son has always been a keen reader, starting off with dinosaur reference books, football annuals like Shoot and probably his favourite around the age of 10, the Bruins or Earl Willie. The last two are DC Thompson Classics and you've given us a really, really lovely list and thank you very much indeed for talking to your son about that.

12:19We're going to go with a book that isn't on your list though. Kind regards, Fran from Edinburgh. But please don't feel insulted. Don't anybody feel insulted because we've had such a lovely time actually talking about all of these books. So, you know, every little bit helps. We are going for... Who is it, Fee? Oh, no, I don't know. No, I haven't got it.

12:46Someone who suggested it. I left it on the... Oh, bloody hell. So we are going to go for Norwegian Word, which was sent in from Erica, who's in Nottingham. She said, I asked my 23-year-old son for a suggestion of the book club. My favourite book, he says, is Norwegian Word by Harukai Murakami. it's an older Japanese novel that I and several other young men I know have read and found uniquely relatable and deeply moving it follows a man in his 20th year grappling with purpose sexuality and grief in a way that focuses less on morality and more on how both the smallest and largest experiences in life shape you sounds beautiful sounds really beautiful and if what we want is to try and better understand the workings of the young male mind which is I think where this whole thing came from that sounds really really spot on and it's been hugely successful hasn't it and it's widely available you can certainly get it from the library can't you and there were some other people who also suggested it so i just found erica's email yeah no it was it was probably the most suggested book actually uh from all of you so enormous thanks enormous thanks yes thanks to everybody but particularly you erica you were picked by eve there and what a what an achievement What a pick.

13:59Yeah, what a pick. Eve's not quite been herself this morning. So we've had various technical issues since I arrived at 10 o 'clock. Well, you know, things, we've slightly steadied ourselves, but it's not been easy. I'm in leisure wear. Yeah, I did accuse you of wearing, well, she is wearing leisure wear. Well, the young people do wear leisure wear to work, don't they? I was in another jumper, but I had a spillage. I put a water bottle in my handbag that wasn't properly closed and it all went down me so I changed jumpers and Jane looked at me said oh yes I was wondering why you were wearing and pointed an accusatory finger and then said well you don't normally wear leisure wear I'm just in a hoodie okay okay it was a backup hoodie I mean it's a bit rich for me really because I spend all the time I'm not at work wearing leisure wear which is funny because I'm not I mean athleisure whereas I avoid the athletic side of it but I do do quite a bit of the leisure Yeah, anyway.

14:56So, sorry for any offence caused. No, you're not. Exactly. Now, our guest today, adding a bit and a bit of much-needed class to our fair, is our returning friend, Lady Glen Connor. She is an annual guest, isn't she? Pretty much, it feels that way. Very welcome. Whenever I think of Christmas, I think of Lady Glen Connor. Yeah, exactly. And I think I do hope there's another book out in time for Christmas. And there is. And she doesn't disappoint. She doesn't disappoint at all. In fact, when you meet her, she doesn't disappoint either. Does she, Eve? Absolutely not. She's amazing. She is a lovely lady, genuinely.

15:35And she's 94. And actually, she did say yesterday, she did keep repeating that she wouldn't see us again. I thought, come on, let's have a little bit more optimism. She said goodbye to both me and Jane separately, and to each of us, she said, this will probably be the last time I see you now. Oh, dear. Well, I sincerely hope not, actually. But also, I mean, maybe she knows something about herself, which means that that's a very true thing to say. Well, she knows she's 94. She looks great. She does look great. Her latest memoir is called Trunks and Tiaras, and in it, well, we do just talk about, in case anybody doesn't know, she was Princess Margaret's incredibly loyal lady-in-waiting.

16:10She's had a life with some challenges in it, to put it mildly. But she is one of those. She's a radiator and not a fridge, is Lady Glen Connor. and Glenn Connor. And she's just a delightful person to spend time with. We do tackle her. Well, I tackle her, so not physically, on some of the current challenges facing the royal family. She's a very good friend of the king. And she answers in a spirited way. Anyway, that's a little bit later, but she's a good woman. And can we just say it is with great sadness that we couldn't have the guests that we were meant to be having, I'm not going to say, I'm not going to mention any name or any television programme that it was attached to.

16:51But I think it might be worth just for, just so I don't get a bitter burp caught in my throat for the rest of the day and Eve too, because we went to a lot of bother to do an interview with somebody yesterday and I asked a very normal question that you would ask of a person involved in that TV show because it's had some ding-dongs around it recently and the sound of, what would you say? There was a little annoyed trot and we're not allowed to put the interview out. Which is, I mean, I know a little bit more about this than the listener. Trust me, this is a farce. It's absolutely ridiculous. Isn't it?

17:40Yeah, and I won't say anything else about it because otherwise you'll become far too intrigued. but there is a certain position that you achieve as a woman in show business where your opinion about what goes on in show business is really valid and maybe has never been more valid and you should be happy to talk about it. You've got much more of a platform and a voice than lots of other people have and it's just absurd. It's just absurd if you get a cob on about being asked about it because it just won't solve anything for anybody. Right, I finished my rant and my burp has come up. Good. Yes, because we were discussing on the radio show this week that some people can't burp.

18:21And I can. It's a very real problem. I can. I just don't like that at all.

18:31Most women have been there. Something feels off. You don't feel like yourself. Yet your doctor says everything looks fine. Spoiler, it's your hormones. Midi is a virtual care platform built for women by women and offers specialized hormone care from trained clinicians. Plus, it's covered by most major insurances. Getting started is easy. You can book your first visit with a clinician right away. It's not you. It's your hormones. Visit joinmidi.com to book your first visit. That's joinmidi.com. Insurance coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage. Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough.

19:05It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends.

19:49You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Listen to this ACAST show ad-free on Amazon Music with your Prime membership or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

20:32Can we talk about going grey? Because it has been some focus. And actually, it does lead me back to Lady Glen Connor, who doesn't have a grey hair on her head. And it's just something in her family. The women just do not go grey. Well, she will not be interested in this section of the podcast. She won't. So many of you have got in touch. And thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Because, do you know what? It's already made me feel way braver about going grey and actually doing something where we could all be a little bit more communal about it and a little bit helpful too. You are all beautiful.

21:03This is Heather, who joins us from Orange in New South Wales. The younger me had very dark brown, almost black hair. I didn't realise how much being brunette was part of my identity until I started going grey. The game changer for me was a Facebook group called Going Grey Gracefully. Women sharing their photos and tips, but most importantly, women building each other up. Let's be honest, grey hair is seen as dowdy, unglamorous, unprofessional and ageing, but to be part of a community embracing natural hair at all ages was surprisingly empowering. I told my sister I was worried people would think I'd let myself go and she told me, Heather, you are letting yourself grow.

21:42That's so wise, isn't it? Very, very wise indeed. And you sent a picture, Heather, and it just looks stunning. So all hail to you. You've got a lovely curl at the bottom there. A lovely curl. Let's have a look. Oh, yes. A very elegant kink. Yeah. a suggestion from Lindsay in South Oxfordshire about what we could call a month and quite a few people have said please don't start doing this right away because we'd like to join in but we need some prep time and I'm with you on that I like the idea of giving myself a couple of months yeah we can't just put it off to May just because it rhymes with grey yes we can I suppose we could yeah Lindsay in South Oxfordshire suggests grey May, grape pearl or granuary I just want it to be I just want to do a month where we just call it Back to My Roots.

22:28Yeah, I do think that's good. Just so we can play the theme tune a lot. I should say that Sheila in Inkboro. Yeah, very good. Odyssey? Yes. I won't sing it now. I'll save that pleasure for further down the line. Yeah. Did they also sing Native New Yorker? I'm a native New Yorker. Is that them? That's a great song. I'm not acting on New York, but I do love that song. Yeah. Anyway, Sheila in Inkboro in Worcestershire, which, as she points out, is the home of the archers alleged.

23:01I'll get you to Ambridge. I will. No, you won't. In response to your Girl in Grey discussions and a suitable charity to donate all that money you spend on hair dye, why don't you consider the Little Princess Trust? They provide wigs for children and young people who are experiencing hair loss because of cancer or other treatment. I think it would be a wonderful use of the money women who would otherwise spend on hair treatments. I went grey a couple of years ago by doing what Fee is doing. I had my hair cut short and even ended up blonde for a while in transition. I was just tired of the money, the time and the money I needed to spend on colouring my hair.

23:37Sheila in Inkborough, thank you very much indeed for that. We won't enter into the debate as to whether Inkborough is indeed Ambridge, but I know it's something that's been much discussed in Worcestershire over many decades and makes me literally glaze over with boredom. You can physically see it happening. I did hear a trail on Radio 4 for the Archers the other day as I was keying in to the media. Is it the media show? The media programme? The media show? Oh, I think it's quite fresh and funky. I think it's a show. Show, yes. And I like it, I like it. and I mean it's just if you come to the Archers without having loved it and known it for years and years and years every trail just sounds like satire because you've got that person with that voice the accents are they're into I can't get enough purchase on this tractor you're never entirely certain where in the country the accents are coming from.

24:45I bit... It looks like rain. Just, what's going on? Oh, you've no idea. Honestly, it's fabulous. No, I know. And lots of people, you know, who I love and admire, Jane, really, really love the Archers. And I fully understand as well they've done some really meaty things over the last couple of years. But it just makes me laugh when it comes on. Do it looks like rain again? It looks like rain. Well, if it looks like rain and it feels wet, it probably is rain. Well, I hope it is. Oh, God. Right, plough on with an email. This one comes in from Helen, who said, on the subject of grey hair, I'm exactly the same age as Jane, born June 1964.

25:32What a month that was. It's almost the middle of the last century. God, it's true as well. My sister Diana, who's 56, she introduced me to your pod in the fortunately days of completely different natural hair colours. My sister is completely white and it really suits her. I have just a few silver threads. See photo attached, taken about six weeks ago. My mum is still quite dark at 85, but my maternal grandmother was completely white at 50. It's very strange how genetic works. My middle sister, who's 60, is also like me and she lives in Nice in France. Can you tell her to get in touch? Let us know what's happening in Nice.

26:07Oh yeah, there we go, yes. But Helen has sent a picture and this is phenomenal. and also Helen tells us that she lost all her hair 21 years ago during chemotherapy for breast cancer it grew back curly and I looked like a mushroom for a while but as you can see it's now back to straight and I think a bit darker than my original colour now lots of women have that don't they when their hair grows back it's either curly when it was straight before or vice versa and I'd love to get the scientific explanation for that I don't understand why that should happen. It is quite intriguing, isn't it? Yeah, it really is.

26:43And it must be to do with hormones as well, because as we've both discussed, we had straight hair before hitting puberty and then had curly hair, although I straightened mine. But Helen, what a beautiful picture. A, you know, props to you for getting through all of your chemotherapy and obviously we really hope that you are well now, but what a difference between you and your sister. I mean, that's just astonishing. That does seem like, yes. But you also, the shape of your faces look the same or very similar. It's just the hair that's very different. Completely different. I can tell you're related.

27:18Yeah. I wonder whether that's ever been a bone of contention. Let's not encourage any falling out between sisters. No, let's not. How's yours? She's fine. Okay. She's fine. We've talked about Greenham Common a bit this week and actually we want to bring in a man I like the fact that he's titled his email Greenham, my part in the struggle it's from Rick I attended one of the hands around the base events at Greenham with female friends being male I was directed to the food tent where I was supposed to make marmite sandwiches however I had long wavy hair at the time as opposed to my current cue ball so I styled it out and was able to take part in the joining of hands I mean strictly speaking Rick we shouldn't approve of that should we no but I love the fact that the women said yes come on board No, they didn't.

28:06They didn't. They thought he was a lady. Oh, I don't think that that's true. Well, I don't think that's true. At the time, says Rick, we thought that living under Thatcher and Reagan was as bad as things could get, if only we'd known. Well, it's true, isn't it? Oh, God. Honestly, I've said before, but if you look up clips of Ronald Reagan now, he's the most astonishing orator. He seems erudite. He seems informed. It's just remarkable. And yet we did think... Well, he was very much mocked from coming from Hollywood. You know, what could he possibly have to contribute? But as it turns out, he was far more attached to reality than the current I came over from Los Angeles, apprentice-style moron.

28:53He's just a cast-iron chump. Pauline is in southern Sweden, listening to your Tuesday podcast. You mentioned Greenham Common and said there weren't very many books set there. Well, one of Val McDermid's early books, with the protagonist Lindsay Gordon, a reporter, is set in and around Greenham Common. It's called Common Murder. I haven't read that, have you? I've not. No, as with everything she's written, I think it's great, says Pauline. Right, thank you for that. And Andy wants to make reference to the fact I was discussing earlier in the week that my dad's, one of his great characteristics was his overwhelming lack of curiosity.

29:28And in particular, the anecdote I told was about his lack of interest in Princess Diana's funeral. But Andy says, I don't know where I was for Diana's funeral, but I do remember that during the royal wedding I was assisting my dear old dad with a world champion bit of wallpaper hanging. It has a double height drop on the corner of a winding staircase with a repeating pattern that was defying matching due to the stretching of the paper. Now this is A-level wallpaper hanging, isn't it? I mean, you really do need a skill set for that. Throughout my teenage years, I was my dad's wallpapering assistant.

30:03It's a skill I seldom use now, but I treasure that skill so much, mainly due to the time I was able to spend with my dad acquiring that skill. He would have wanted you to know, by the way, that he wasn't actually a professional decorator. He was a head teacher. Well, Andy, thank you for that. Your dad sounds multi-skilled. That's incredible. I think wallpaper hanging, oof, I would never even attempt it. I think that is, for me, advanced DIY. I face a little bit of DIY over the next couple of days because I've got a couple of blinds in the house that are just sort of half hanging off. So I've invested in some double-sided tape.

30:40OK, that should be all right. Do you think that'll do the job? I think that'll do the job fine. But in the past I've struggled because it ends up sticking to your fingers when you're mounting the ladder and, oh, my God. OK, well, maybe get somebody else to help you. Oh, no, I won't do it unaccompanied. OK, good, good, good. My mum is an ace wallpaperer. And yeah, and she decorated all of our houses. She can make lampshades and things like that, Jane. It's just astonishing skills. How do you make a lampshade? Well, you've got to be very, very good at sewing. And I think also you've got to be very brave because you have to do a funny thing where you're stretching the material beyond...

31:17Of course, it's so taut. Yes, you know, because you can't have a flabby lampshade. But yeah, she used to make all of those things in our house. We just took it for granted. that she could. I mean, it hasn't been passed down the generations on my side. My sister's very artistic and creative and she can just do things like, she can just whiz up a curtain and it just looks professional and it hangs properly and all that kind of stuff. But I do remember when my sister, we were allowed to choose our wallpapers in the house that we moved to when we were in our kind of early teenage years and my sister chose what looked like graph paper, you know, tiny little squares and stuff.

31:56Why did she choose that? Because she wanted that kind of aesthetic at the time. And I do remember my mum, just the look on her face, because obviously hanging that type of wallpaper where every minute line has got to line up. And she'd do all of this on her own. Bloody hell. But she nailed it. She nailed it, including, Jane, an alcove. I'll just park that there. I know. Props. No, absolutely. And she went to Greenham Common. the woman's magic double shout out a good thing about shouting out to your mum is we know she won't hear it she won't hear it at all I think actually some of her friends daughters might listen to this I think things make their way back to her usually when I've said something really facetious yeah well yesterday with the screw fix you didn't cover yourself in glory well neither did you no I didn't say I did I didn't say I did because I know I didn't you were the one who immediately imagined a whole advent calendar full of bollocks.

32:56Let's bring in Sarah in Cheltenham. She said she was listening to us talking about Fee's knees earlier in the week. When you were talking about knees, says Sarah, all I could hear in my head was my proud Liverpudlian prim grandma, born 1889, died 1968, saying once, there's nothing pretty about knees. She was actually complaining about Cilla Black wearing mini dresses. Yeah, I mean, Scylla did get her knees out. And I know that Scylla was slightly challenging, particularly if you were... A BA flight attendant. Exactly. She was a fine, fine performer. I'm trying to think of the right adjective. And a quick shout out to Jill as well, who is one of the Crosby Wombles.

33:41Now, Crosby is the northern Liverpool suburb where my mum and dad lived. And Jill just says that she's responsible for the planters that they've recently put on Crosby Railway Station. And I have seen them and they are lovely. So, Jill, thank you for that. I think it's a lovely initiative. And the Crosby Wombles are out and about all the time picking up rubbish and putting them in, putting rubbish in bags. I've seen you. I really appreciate what you're doing. Thank you. Because people do leave crap everywhere, don't they? It's so annoying. Yes, they do. Yes. Stop it! Is this the coat fee comes in from Nicky.

34:20Now, Nicky, you gave me about 20 minutes of unadulterated pleasure this morning because I went down a very deep rabbit hole looking at funnel neck trench coats. Right. Nicky says, I'm a long-time listener, first-time emailer. I have all of the things to get in touch with. It is about the coat fee described worn by a guest at Cheltenham. I wasn't there, but her description conjured such a strong image in mind. I do love a coat. So do I. But when I saw this, I immediately thought of it. And Nikki then just goes on to say how much she enjoys listening to the podcast. And I think especially at the moment, and a lot of people say the same thing, that actually we can feel that there is a bit of crumbling of the world around us.

35:03And it's nice to know that there's a place where you can come to where we acknowledge the crumble. Really don't offer any solutions at all because we don't have any. Oh God, if only. but we are strong in our community spirit that we will eventually all get through it. And you're right, it wasn't the exact trench coat, funnel neck thingy, I'm not sure you can have a funnel neck trench coat anyway, Nicky, that was there on the site that you sent me but I have ended up buying a very nice dark olive, mid-cut, double-breasted utility jacket. Have you? Yes, I have. I shall look forward to seeing that.

35:39Thank you. Thank you. So that was just divine. Judith has seen an emotional support cockatoo. Where has she seen it? She's in Australia. The only episode I did manage to catch was the one in which she's been away a lot. She's been away and she's been reading the Cassoulet Chronicles. Ah, yes. I've had to just give up because I don't want to finish them. Not because I'm not enjoying them. I want to know that they're there so that I can return to the Cassoulet family when I need them. I think that's very sensible. Yeah. Weird. No, I think it's very logical and not weird at all. I have pressed pause on Peter Granger's back catalogue for exactly the same reason.

36:17Oh, OK, I feel reassured. I cannot bear to think that there will be a time when there are no more Peter Granger novels ahead of me. I don't like that. Don't write him off just yet. No, but he will only... I mean, I think he was writing one a year anyway, and we're blessed, you know, because for those of us who found him relatively recently, that means 21 books. but I would just feel so frustrated if there's only one to come. I like to save the episodes on all of those binge-worthy thingamajiggy watsits so I've got at least two to watch. I don't like having to only watch one episode at a time. Do you find that now?

36:54I only ever do one episode. That's very strange. Do you save them and binge them, young person? What I like to do is save two but then watch about 20 minutes into the next one so it doesn't end on a cliffhanger. So I can just go to bed mid-episode. Oh, that's genius. It's a bit less stressful. Yes, so you don't feel... I think that's cheating. No, I think that's wonderful because then you still feel in control. Yeah. Wowee. Wow, this is great. Back with you, Judith. Sorry, because people want to hear about the cockatoo. The only episode I did manage to catch was the one in which Fee said that homesick students would benefit from having pets.

37:31I was standing on the balcony of our hotel room looking at the stunning vista of the Blue Mountains. I confess not homesick but feeling a very long way from home and exactly as Fee said it, I was spotted by a sulphur-crested cockatoo who marched determinedly along the entire length of the balcony to get to me. Taking the hint, I retreated inside, I found him a bit of a muesli bar and we had an enjoyable chat. What did he say, Judith? An enjoyable chat. Are you sure? He was an absolute tonic, and I hope he makes you smile too, especially as he interrupted the episode. If you have the sound on, I asked him if he'd been out soaring, not saw wing, as in, you know, S-A-W-I-N-G.

38:19Even I puzzled over my residual Lancashire accent. Well, I mean, they're lovely video moments. And Judith does say, I did learn later they shouldn't be fed because they'll attack your woodwork, so I might be in trouble with the hive down under, but, well, it wasn't my woodwork. Judith, Judith, leave, what is it? Leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but photographs. Oh, that's lovely. Let's stay in Australia with news from Heather, who's in Orange. There we go. Pat, pat. Back in your box. Heather's in Orange. Have you heard of Orange? Yes, I have. We're in New South Wales. Never heard of it.

39:01Is it in New South Wales? Well, it's in Australia. Oh, OK. I think we've just done that email. No, it's about the Times Radio app. Forgive me, corporate Cathy. Carry on. You promote your on-air show, but for us Australian listeners, 2pm to 4pm is midnight to 2. So there may also be UK listeners who have pesky obligations like employment or parenting that makes your afternoon time slot difficult to listen to. If you just get the amazing Times Radio app, you can wake up and catch up with your live radio show at a time suitable. Well, thank you for that, Heather in Orange. Of course, just to confuse matters, the time changes this weekend, doesn't it?

39:39Oh, does it? Yes, and I don't like it. Oh, my goodness. So do we lose an hour? We're going back, so we gain one. Oh, OK. Yeah, we go back on Saturday night. I'm on a flight on Sunday, so I've got to really make sure that I don't get dicked by the clock change. Yeah, to be careful. Yeah, so next week I am going to... I'm writing a feature for the Times and the Sunday Times travel section about a medical spa in Germany. I can't wait for this. And I went to a medical spa in Austria, which we wrote about in our book. What's the title of our book, Joe? Well, as Christmas approaches, it's not a bad time to revisit one of the best-loved classics.

40:20Did I say that out loud? Notes on the Chuff of Life. Which is available. It's still available. Literally, it'll cost you about 30p. so I did write a chapter in there about going to a medical spa in Austria it was a very very odd choice of of places to go because it was just after I got divorced and I thought it would be great because I didn't want to go somewhere that had lots of happy families and kids running around and all that kind of stuff and it was in the summer like the mountain warehouse people like the mountain warehouse people I just thought actually that's not going to that's not where I want to be.

40:53I just want to kind of, you know, sit by myself. So I went to this medical spot. It was so austere, Jane. It was just, I've kept a photograph from it where on the table where you ate your dinner, it just had a card that said, no alcohol, no water, monotony. And that was the vibe that you had to abide by. People pay for this. Yes, because they were trying to the whole ethos is take everything away and then you know put tiny things back and this is kind of cleansing whatever i actually i just wanted great big fat donuts and a return to the oaky chardonnay of the 1980s really so it was a bit of a struggle but this time round i'm going to uh a spa in germany that has some of the rebalance yourself elements but also aims to cocoon you in some pretty sensible stuff about how to live a decent, healthy life.

41:52So actually, it looks quite busy. I've got quite a full-on schedule. There's a visit, just won't believe this, there was only one visit out of the compound in the entire week. To? An alpaca farm. Oh, God. I know, it's like a sign from the gods. It's like driving through Bromley for me. Why would people at that sort of establishment want to visit an alpaca farm? Well, this is all part of the restorative nature. How do alpacas feel about their involvement in this? I don't know. Why us? Leave us alone. This is what I'm going to report on. But I can't wait, actually. It's just intriguing. I don't know what to pack at all.

42:34I've tried packing about three times and unpacking. Do I need wafty caftans? Like what they used to sell in... Do you remember John Lewis's cruise wear department? As I'm thinking that might be a vibe, there are piano recitals in the evening to listen to. I know. And then there's obviously a lot of activity. There's quite a lot of Nordic walking in woods and stuff like that. But on an empty stomach? No, no, no. So this spa, you don't have to do that restrictive eating thing. Oh, thank God for that. But they are trying to encourage you to... They're definitely heading towards that eat one meal a day thing.

43:12I'm never going to be able to do that, Jane. It's not in my skill set, that level of denial. I also, for me, think it's very unhealthy. I have kids at home. I think the message I would send out if I cancelled a whole meal... You'd be very wrong. We'll be very wrong. I just don't want to do it. And you know me, when I'm hangry, I'm horrible. To be fair, most people are. Well, I'll tell you what, in sympathy, Eve will come along with me here. Eve and I will be doing a podcast Monday and Tuesday next week. We won't go for coffee. All right? Why? Well, because we're thinking of our sister in the spa there.

43:46No caffeine, no alcohol. Monotony. Yeah, we'll take a vow of silence in the office and we won't go for coffee first thing in the morning. I think that's a good idea. And I know that Eve will come along with me on this, leisure wear or not. I'll come along next to you whilst holding my lato. Right. Yeah, which you'll have paid for. It'll be a rare but wonderful thing, won't it? But we will be here. Eve and I will certainly be making a fist of it on Monday and Tuesday. So keep the emails coming. Jane and Fee at Times.Radio. And just sincerely, thank you to all the people who've emailed this week.

44:16I mentioned my dad. Honestly, it's so kind of you. Thank you. Really do appreciate it. And we will be reunited again the other side of next week. So do keep all of your emails coming. You may just really, really welcome a break from us as well. Oh, hard to believe.

44:37Hot flashes. Rage crying. Forgetting words mid-season. Yeah, we know. Menopause is a lot. Midi Health gets it. That's why Midi offers virtual healthcare specially tailored to women's needs. Built for women by women. Every symptom, every stage, every question. Visit joinmidi.com to get started today. That's joinmidi.com. Individual results and coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage. now let's bring in a welcome touch of class um and she is just one of those life enhancing folk talking about her new book trunks and tiaras it is princess margaret's former lady-in-waiting close friend of the king lady glen connor is that are you wearing a wig no i'm actually not wearing a wig do you want to touch it or pull it oh my goodness right i could write a book about hair that should be your next one well just in case if you in case you weren't aware the interview has started it's lovely to see you again and you're looking well actually well i'm well i've got a sore arm and luckily it's not my signing arm because that would be disaster because as you I'm amazed.

45:57I mean, going now for seven years, I started Lady and Waiting, my amazing book that took off around the world. And now Trunks and Tiaras, my new book, is going to be my last. Why? Well, I really can't. I mean, I'm 94. I've already said everything. I mean, but there is, as we were talking about hair, I might write a tiny little thing about hair. I'm 94, not got to grow hair, never permed it or dyed it. Because I think dyeing hair, and you see these people's scraped back hair, and then they go bald, you know. I think hair should be sort of left alone and not sort of tortured like some people. Can I ask, because in the interest, so the listeners understand, I complimented you on your hair before the interview officially began.

46:53So that is why it's on your mind. Well, it is. I was thrilled when you said... Because the other thing is the front of my book, the book cover, is a picture of me. I am much younger. It was in those days where we had very full hair. It was all my own hair. My goodness, I've got a copy of that. The hair, it's about... Well, people say, is that a wig? And I say, absolutely not. It's my own hair. Right. So is it a genetic thing that you simply don't go grey? Yes, my mother never went grey and my sisters didn't. Yes, it has nothing to do with me, it's genetic, it's my parents. But I think it's very important because when I was young, a lot of people had their hair permed and it was horrific where you went in and this sort of helmet came down on top of you and one's hair was...

47:45And I had rather nice straight hair when I went in, but I came out looking like a sheep. I remember crying and it was my grandmother giving this as a present, coming out present. Coming out also, I just wonder whether the old listeners were a bit surprised by me saying... Yes, I think the fact that you're talking about coming out will be a shock to some people. So what did it mean then? Well, then it meant that you were presented at court to the king and queen and then you had a ball and you went to other... And he was ready to find a husband and that was what coming out. But I said that the other day to Rupert Everett, the actor, who was a great friend.

48:22And he said, darling Anne, I didn't come out a bit like that. And so I said, I know you didn't. Anyway, we had a laugh or two. Now, this new book, how would you describe it? I mean, it's largely about travels and some of the most beautiful places in the world that you've been so fortunate to spend time in. Well, I thought, being on my way to 95, I thought I'd done nearly 100 years of travel. And a lot of people, I mean, you know, obviously have never travelled in the Royal Train like I've done. And I went on an amazing aeroplane called a Stratocruiser in the 60s to America. And we had bunks and pillows and sheets.

49:06I mean, it was more luxurious than anything I've done with Princess Margaret. And of course, I've also stayed, this book is about all the places I've stayed in. I've stayed in all the royal houses. And I've been with Mrs Margaret, you know, everywhere, Canada, America, New Zealand. Yes, I was particularly struck by it. I think you had an Italian holiday with her. Forgive me if I've got the location wrong, but it was the most gorgeous place. And the day began, she was a slow mover. She wasn't someone who got up early, was she? No, that was Australia. Oh, was it? Okay, sorry. Well, I think so. We flew to, we were on the second leg to Australia.

49:48And, of course, we were flying with the sun, so it never got dark. So Princess Margaret said, oh, in those days, there was a bar in the aeroplane. There weren't seats upstairs, there was a bar. And she said, come on, let's go and have a drink. So we sat up there, we were allowed to smoke in aeroplanes then. and she was smoking and we were having drinks and then she suddenly said, shall we have an early breakfast? My heart sank slightly. I said, oh, of course. Anyway, we had eggs and she got somebody over and said, Lady Con and I will have eggs with soldiers. That meant pieces of toast. Anyway, we sat there.

50:25Of course, by the time we arrived in Australia, we had to have no sleep and she's fairly grumpy and there were thousands of girl guides waiting to meet her. so she sort of you know clumped off the aeroplane and and turned the other way and this is the first time I was in waiting and that's what ladies in waiting do so I got her I said look ma 'am I know you're so kind and you wouldn't want to disappoint anybody but all these girl guys are waiting would you come over and say hello and she did well thank goodness I mean you rescued her on any number of occasions in fact although I think there was another time when you couldn't get her up for church?

51:03Well, that was when we were in the Queen Mother. Yes, we were staying in Windsor. And the Queen Mother, somebody said, would I go and see the Queen Mother, which I did. And she said, look, Margaret's not down. Do you think we could go up and see how she's getting on? So I went up, knock, knock, a grumpy voice said, come in. And I said, oh, ma 'am, we're going off to church in 20 minutes. we're all hoping are going to come. Well, I'm not, she said. Don't bully me. And she just put the sheet back. It didn't work that time. No, that's how to live. I was really struck. You recount, I think it was a weekend at Royal Lodge with the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret.

51:48And my goodness, I mean, there was beautiful food, but the amount of alcohol. How did you sustain it? Well, there were no drugs there. People drank. Well, I mean, we did have food with it. Oh, yes, I know. Yes, but a lot of food as well, yeah. I mean, I think you had. No, there was. But on the other hand, the wine was so good that you didn't slot it down, you know, like plonk. I mean, beautiful. We started off with beautiful white wine for the beginning and then red wine for the main course and then champagne for the pudding. and I think people had a very, I don't know, well, Princess Margaret and the Queen Mother, they drank quite a lot.

52:35They never were drunk. No. Could you make the case, I think one of their favourite drinks was gin and Dubonnet. That was the Queen Mother's favourite drink. Princess Margaret was gin and tonic during the day, whisky and water in the evening. And of course, I do say in my book, I think, my new book, what she thought about champagne. You'll have to tell us. Well, she was quite right. She said to me, please don't drink champagne when you're with me. So I said, no, ma 'am, why not? She said, well, people's breaths smell of poo. And it's absolutely disgusting. But of course, if you are drinking champagne, you don't notice that.

53:16Anyway, I never, never drank champagne when I was with her. Oh, gosh, it's my favourite drink, but I'm not sure now whether I'll ever be able to drink it again. it's all right if you're drinking with other people as if you're not drinking it i haven't i have actually noticed that myself right really um people who know a little bit about your life will know that you have known some real tragedy and and you've been through periods of extreme stress and strain but you always emerge in your writing as somebody with with no bitterness at all, with a gift for positivity. How did you explain that? I think partly, you know, my age, I was brought up in the war.

53:58I didn't see my parents for three years. I had a very unkind governess. At age seven, I was, you know, on my own, really, having to look after my younger sister. We were bombed. We were terrified. We thought Hitler was arriving any minute. I mean, we had a very different... We were tough by the time the war ended. And some mental disturbances were not, I mean, brushed aside. I mean, you know, you didn't ever say you were depressed. I mean, it didn't sort of exist. And I think that so many wonderful things have happened in my life. And when, I think, I suppose you're right, when I knew my two older boys, the dying one of AIDS, one of drug-related diseases, and then my darling Christopher, my youngest one, had this appalling accident and was in a coma for five months.

54:50That was really hard. And I think my faith helped me. I had a wonderful Christian healer, Mrs. Black, who helped me a lot during that time. But I've now come out and I just think how lucky I am. What an amazing life I've had in lots of ways. And I think one should just enjoy everything I do. And I try and get everybody else to enjoy everything too. Yes. There are so many nuggets in your latest book, as there always are with your books. But I love the story of a lady called Ingrid. Oh, she's my best friend. Yeah, well, she was, I mean, she basically was somebody who, well, for example, the Chelsea Flower Show.

55:33What happened there? Well, I mean, there's something magical about Ingrid. In a way, she was enormously rich. I think you have to be very well off to behave like she did, really. But it was terribly funny. I mean, she didn't think. Well, we went. I was looking forward to, you know, lovely. And I thought of her car with a chauffeur took us to a special gate and in we went and we started to walk towards the flowers. And suddenly there was this tent that said, champagne tent. Oh, says Ingrid, let's go in here and have a drink just to, you know, celebrate. Yes. Well, I mean, she never left the tent.

56:10At one point I said, don't you think we ought to go and see some flowers? Well, you can go if you want, she said. So I tottered over quickly and had a look round, came back, and then we went home. But then, of course, I mean, her husband was in the, at that point, he was head of the... He was secretary, was it trade secretary? Yes, he was trade. He was in quite a few things. Yes. But anyway, they sort of went round the world at one point. And I'd been to quite a few places with Mrs Margaret. So I was longing to see her. We had lunch. I said, long, Ingrid, you know, where do you go? What happened?

56:44Oh, I said, especially Egypt, because I loved England. She said, there was one boring old pyramid after another. She had absolutely no idea where we went. I mean, I say one shouldn't laugh, but I just found her funny. I just, I enjoyed all that. And in a way, all the people that have been closest to me, like Colin, like Princess Morgan, did behave appallingly at the moment. But I just found it very funny. I just quite enjoyed them being like that. Well, I know you are remarkable in any number of ways. I mean, Colin was your late husband, and to say he was challenging, he was worse than challenging, actually, as you have recounted before.

57:26He was physically violent on occasions, which we don't sort of jog past that. Because of the children, I don't talk about it very much. And of course, who's been simply fantastic is the present Queen, who has done so much for people with abuse. And my third book I wrote, I wrote a lot of the money from it went to people who were abused. And I get these wonderful letters, because the Queen quite rightly said, Anne, if you write about it, people aren't expecting it, and you'll have much more effect, which is true. I get so many, some very sad letters from people. It's very difficult to know how to answer them because one doesn't know the ins and outs.

58:11But I say that you must have friends. The great thing is to talk to people. Don't feel ashamed. It's not your fault. And if it's really dangerous, then you should leave. And I just hope that the husband in question won't come across my letter. Otherwise, you're awkward. But I do, and I have helped a lot of people. And, of course, the other people I've helped are gay people, a lot of young gay people who say, we don't dare tell our parents who are gay, but we admire the way you were with Henry, you know, and AIDS and all that sort of thing. And I often write back, quite often, I'm sure your parents do know, but by all means try and talk to them, you know.

58:57and so I have such a varied number of people who write to me for all different things I wasn't expecting that no and that is perhaps one of the most wonderful things about writing books like I do well you've just had this extraordinary I was going to say late life renaissance it's like tottering here at age 94 you look absolutely you looking fine fettle but it's been such an interesting stage of your life and one you probably were not expecting. Not at all and I tell people because my audience is quite often the clatter of sticks and all our hearing aids go off together and then I make them laugh and they have a great time to talk and they always say it's just like you're sitting in my sitting room and they're lovely, lovely audiences I get.

59:47You do mention in this book that you had a romance with Princess Diana's father. Yes. Well, I never know how to pronounce the name. Johnny... Althrup. Althrup. Now, that was quite a significant romance, wasn't it, in your life? Yes, I mean, I was engaged to him. And I do write about that. His father was, well, quite difficult. but in those days aristocrats you you looked for your older son to make a suitable marriage and then produce the air and my grandmother um marion she was a trefusis the queen in fact had also her uncle married a few and they had those two uh daughters who were in an institution yeah yeah so there were some misgivings were there about you well the thing was that that one died and was going to have a porpoise funeral.

1:00:39Do you remember? I do. And then they realised who she was. Yeah. And the Queen then, you know, gave them a porpoise funeral. But they were Tufuses. And so at the time when I was engaged to Johnny, his father said, you can't marry Anne Cook. Her grandmother is a Tufuses. It's sort of bad blood, you know. And so that was that. Gosh. I mean, that really... I was devastated, actually. Yes, but what a glimpse into another world that is. I mean, just the changes in attitudes to so many things. Absolutely. And that's partly why I've written this last book. It's full of things that had happened and the journeys I made, the houses I stayed in, the people I met and how it all worked.

1:01:23Because there aren't, I mean, I'm the only person that went, I took part in the Queen's coronation, I carried her train and I went to the King's coronation. And you are the only person. I'm the only person who wrote, apart from one or two pages, I'm not sure, but I'm the only person who wrote. And, of course, I had that amazing thing, that I wrote an article for a newspaper about the Queen, and then I was asked to write one about the Kings, and I knew they were going to ring me up at 7 o 'clock in the evening. We weren't allowed out of the Abbey until about 4 or 5, so I didn't have very long. And the next day, my daughter rang, and said, oh, Buckingham Palace wants to get in touch with you, Mum.

1:02:08My heart sank. I thought, well, I'm going to get an absolute ball of pick of some sort. It wasn't. It was extraordinary. Two, I think, or maybe three days after the King's Ark, I had dinner alone with him in Norfolk. And he was at Wood Farm, which is where he goes, this little farmhouse. And he kindly sends a car, because I'm not very good at driving at night at my age. And I came down the path, and there's a little doorway, it's quite a small house, and he's standing waiting for me. And when I came out up, he said, how was it, Anne? And I said, magnificent, sir, but different. And we then had all done, because he wanted to know because he was only been three.

1:02:49From your perspective, yes, of course. And I happened to be standing underneath where he was standing at the Queen's Connery, and I could hear him say to the Queen Mother, what are they doing to Mummy now? And the Queen said, well, they're about to crown her. Oh, he said, I know the crown, he's very heavy, because she'd been practising, you know, with the crown, and he'd have the chance to beat up. You speak very fondly of the king, but you'll be aware that the current Earl Spencer has just written his book, Swan Song. Have you read it? Absolutely not, and I'm not going to. I don't really want to talk about it.

1:03:25I'm a great, great friend of the king. I love the king. I've known him since he was three.

1:03:33and there's nothing else I want to say but Spencer's quite frank. I mean, you understand. I know the Spencer family and that's it. Yes. I mean, I just have to put to you and I'm sure you can, listen, this is a recorded interview so you can say whatever you like to me but in that book, Earl Spencer relates that he believes that the current king, and I've just got the quote here, was giddily elated and like a lottery winner when he talked to him after Diana's death. You don't believe that could possibly have happened? Complete rubbish. Right. Well, you've answered it. Thank you. That's absolutely fine.

1:04:10And from the King's perspective, again, Prince Harry is back in the country. I mean, again, a challenging area in some ways, but is this a good thing? I don't really haven't got an opinion particularly. I mean, I knew Harry because my nanny, who looked after my children, went to look after William and Harry when they were babies. That's Barbara Barnes, isn't it? My twins, May and Amy, used to go and help Bath and things like that. They were very sweet when they were small. You are such a diplomat. I can understand why the king still wants to be your friend. I absolutely get it. So I'm going to just try a question about the former Prince Andrew.

1:04:56There are some stories that he has been very much welcomed back into his social circle. Do you believe that's true? Well, I don't know. I do live only 10 miles away. I haven't seen him. There was a thing, I don't know whether it was true or not, that he went to dinner at Holcomb. That's your old ancestral home? I was quite surprised, but I haven't seen him myself. You wouldn't have him round for dinner? Can't answer that, really. It depends who asked me to have him. I think we need to end with something else that I gleaned from the book, which I did not expect to hear about you, is that you were once considered a possible body double for Bette Davis.

1:05:38Yes, that's absolutely extraordinary. I mean, I don't think I look anything like Bette Davis. But I went, there's a man called C.J. Latter, who's the head of Warner Brothers in England, and he and his wife took me to Hollywood. They were Christian scientists and friends of my grandmother. And when I got there, they thought for some reason, well, I was longing to be, I actually wasn't expecting to be somebody's body double. It was a bit disappointing that, when I wasn't even good enough to be her body double. So that was it. That was the end of my career in Hollywood. Right. And the book starts, actually, with a lovely memory of, it's very evocative, actually, you're coming home from school for the summer holidays.

1:06:22That's what started my book, because smell is so important. I think it's one of the most important things, evocative, to remember things. Quite often you smell, remember, and that's what I had coming back. Because we had our own station, you see. At Hocum. How grand is that? Well, we had our own station, whilst our own... Well, so many of these big country houses did. And, of course, you know, boarding school then, you never saw it. Once parents came once a year. Nowadays, children never, they were home the whole time. I mean, we never, that was it. We saw them once a year, they came. And summer holidays, we knew it was going to, and the smell of the train, it was, all the soot came on.

1:07:11Remember, it was, you were in your own carriage, and you put down the window and I poked my head up and I could see the marsh and the sea and the smell of the... It was just, I can smell it now, you're bringing it all back to me. The salty air. The salty air and the smoke and the sort of, it was the joy in looking and of course it made that wonderful noise, you see trains don't make that lovely noise any longer. And I started the book because I remembered that because it was about travel, that's why it's called Trunks. Although, trunks, somebody said, what do you mean, a pair of trousers? So I said, no, it's not a pair of trousers.

1:07:49It's not an elephant's trunk. It's a big suitcase. I have got a little photograph. And, of course, we were always wearing tiaras. I mean, I was being a lady waiting, always in our tiara. Do you wear a tiara now? No, I haven't got it anymore. Oh. No. Well, I said, you know, Christopher, my darling son, will need much more help the older he gets. So I wanted to raise some money for him. Right, yeah. Well, genuinely, it is a joy to speak to you. As I'm sure you know, you are one of life's joy bringers. And it's good to talk to you. Thank you very much for talking to us. Well, I've loved speaking to you.

1:08:28Thank you too. Lady Glen Connor, and that's a good place to end, actually. I mean, it was less of an interrogation and more just of a, just spending time with someone who's just really lovely, talking to Lady Glen Conner and actually referring back to what you were saying earlier about people who don't always want to answer questions. She fronts up. She will answer questions. Sometimes quite, you know, not challenging, but slight. I mean, she thinks about it and then she comes up with an answer. Well, good for her, Jane. Well, she's 94, you know. But like I say, she's an accomplished woman who's been through some tremendous tragedies in her life and has come out well and truly the other side and has had a wonderful golden age as a writer.

1:09:10So the book is called Trunks and Tiaras. Do you have either of those two things? I don't have a trunk and I do have a tiara in the dressing up box, but I fear it's not of great value. You think it's not real? I'm suggesting it may have been bought for a small child. Okay. And it's just one of those things I really must throw that sort of stuff out. No, keep it for the next generation because they'll really, really, really love it. by then. And maybe they'll think it's actually real. Yeah, they may well do. I think the trunk is just of an era, a bygone era. I think the word in The Next Generation won't mean anything to anybody.

1:09:50Does she say that in the interview? You're on the same wavelength as Lady Glenn Conner. Yes. Because there would have been a time, wouldn't there, where in John Lewis' cruisware department there would have been a stack of trunks because that's what you would have taken on your cruise. Is there really, or was there really a John Lewis' cruise department? Yes, there was. So I think it was definitely in Peter Jones in Sloan Square. And when I first came to London, I used to go to Selfridges or Peter Jones if I was feeling a bit lost in a little bit of a, you know, Holly Golightly way. Because you can just feel very at home in a department store.

1:10:23It's just very handy. Well, they're quite welcoming places. Absolutely lovely. I always think that nothing really bad can happen to you in a John Lewis store. Peter Jones is a John Lewis store. And they had a cruise wear department. I was just mesmerised by it, Jane. Because it was. wafty caftans. An awful lot of... An old Vicky style. Yes, exactly. An awful lot of swimming costumes, what we would definitely describe as slacks, that kind of thing. And it just spoke of a world that was just so comfortable. Nothing was too tight. Did anything go wrong in a slack? No. And it was called cruise wear.

1:10:59Okay. Presumably Chelsea Girl had a kind of 1830 version, did they? Well, probably, yes. Yeah, they would have had a department where you could... I would have had wet t-shirts and all of that. But I preferred to... Do you know what? It promised something further down the line in life, if you really made it. It was incredibly appealing. The irony is I just wouldn't go near a cruise now. Well, you've said that before, but I'll get you on a cruise. No, we're not going on a cruise. Now, I hate to break it, but it's now a ten past four in the afternoon thing. We do have to go. Oh, I just don't want you to go, because it's very nice this week having you back.

1:11:31Not that it wasn't lovely doing the podcast with you, Eve, because it always is, actually. No, it's been lovely being back, actually. And thanks to everybody here who's been so kind and actually kept the old Off Air podcast going. So thanks to all. And on we go. What we're doing and what we're talking about, we never know. Now you stop. Yeah, I stop. I stop. Stop. Bye. Bye.

1:12:07Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.