It IS my ballcock, darling

0:00Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the Headline Hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's go.gle slash workspace with Gemini.

0:35This episode of Off Air is brought to you by AXA Health Insurance. We are all busier than ever juggling home and work life with children who rely on you, aging parents who might need your support, so it can be very hard to take care of yourself too. AXA Health understands the importance of feeling cared for, whether it's their customer care team helping you reach the treatment you need quickly, access to an online GP service day or night or a counsellor on their mental health support line offering a listening ear when you need one. They build their teams with people who care. So for cover that cares, choose AXA Health.

1:12You can get a quote by searching AXA Health Insurance online. Pre-existing conditions are not covered. The mental health support line isn't a replacement for medical advice and is not an emergency service. This episode of Off Air is brought to you by NatWest Premier. Now, what comes to mind when you say Premier? Maybe Premier League, movie Premier, things that are really top-level stuff. And why not apply that thinking to your money management? NatWest Premier is more than just a bank account. It's an exclusive service. So what could NatWest Premier do for you? Well, you get access to qualified financial planners alongside tailored investment advice.

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2:28Well, welcome. Monday, we're in our relatively easy chairs and we're just kicking back. We were just discussing whether or not it would be wise, given that this podcast is usually about 40 minutes long. Yeah. You've just been for a week. Yeah. I've decided not to take the opportunity to go for a week. No, and in broadcasting, darling, that's known as using the bladder. It is. It's something I think that they do teach you at DJ school, that sometimes if you want to hype up the tension, the rigidity, just add a little additional buff to the polish of your performance. Be slightly on edge and have a full bladder.

3:07I think that's incredibly unwise. I don't like the jeopardy. And I was just saying that if people are to advise me on when is a good time to empty my bladder or not, I just think you just don't know. You just never know. I had a£9.10 baby. Say that again. £9.10. I can't. That's very big. There was an article in the... There was. Sunday Times. Yeah, saying that very, very big babies may become a thing of the past because there is a much better understanding of the need to induce earlier if you're carrying a very, very large baby. And you're not a big woman. No, not a big woman at all. And my mum said this actually at the time that her dad, who was a gynecologist and obstetrician and really, really knew his stuff.

3:58Well, I would hope so. He was very good at his job. He wasn't. Jane, he wasn't an amateur. Wasn't just his hobby. He was a professional. Right. Good. He'd studied. He would never let a woman who was under five foot two go beyond her due date because it's just you just make sense. Not built for a very, very large baby to emerge. So, yes, I went two and a half weeks after my due date. And so I had a£9.10 baby. I would much rather have had a smaller baby, Jane. And then I might have been able to experience the jeopardy of full bladder broadcasting. But I tell you what, you've created a rod for your own back here.

4:38Why? Well, because you've just emptied your bladder. This is going to be a weak podcast. So I'll be crap. Yeah. But you'll be all right. I'll be absolutely on fire. Well, unless you have a little accident. Anyway, so yes, there's plenty I think we've established. There's a great deal of jeopardy in this edition of Off Air with Jane and Fee. You're very welcome. I'm wearing one of my new winter jumpers, which if you're watching on YouTube, you will. I think it makes me rather chesty. But never mind. It's cosy and it's that time of year, isn't it? Now, it's interesting that you say that that's one of your winter jumpers because I would have had that down as a spring jumper or even a summer jumper because I think that's cotton.

5:14No, it isn't. It isn't woolly. It's not this. No, no, it's not. Woolly, woolly mammoth. I would find that a bit picky. But you can layer under this. And I look as though I'm about to wade into the sea and maybe catch some tuna. OK, that's an exaggeration. Anyway, I look like a middle aged woman in a jumper. But that's that's that's the look I'm in for. Now, you're having some plumbing difficulties at home, which we've spent most of the morning talking about. So I'm afraid I'm not going to let you get away with your decision not to share this with the group. So you've got a very drippy overflow.

5:47I have done it. That's cascading. Yeah, this is kind of why we were talking about going to the loo. I mean, we are pathetic. But yes, you know how we were saying earlier, we both live in quite old houses, don't we? And it's astonishing. I've lived in my house now for over a quarter of a century and there's so much about it I don't understand. Because you don't need to understand it. Until it breaks. Until it doesn't function anymore. And I was woken up in the wee small hours, no pun intended, of Sunday morning by a pretty incessant trickling sound, which was my... And your first thought? Please.

6:26Well, obviously that was my first thought. But anyway, then I got... Then I established... So you got, phew, it's not me. It's the house. It's the house. It all was well, but it was the house. So we got up. I'd been to the theatre the night before, so nothing under water had occurred. So I got up and it was... I couldn't... But I couldn't find where the noise was coming from. It's quite frightening sometimes, isn't it? It's dark. Obviously, I have my candle like wee-wee-wee-winky. Anyway, it was a pipe that I'd never even considered before right at the top of the house, bursting, splurting water right down the outside of the house.

7:02I mean, of course, you take to Google and you realise that's exactly what it's meant to do. It's the overflow pipe and it's been called into action and it's doing exactly what it should. So your water tank being at the top of the house, I mean, younger listeners just won't understand this. This is gold. They will have left us at the conversation about our full bladders and large babies. Anyway, welcome. Welcome if you stayed. But modern houses don't have that, do they? But don't they? No, they don't. So what do they have? So I think there's just a different way of getting your mains water into your house these days, because I've got exactly the same as you, a massive water tank in the attic that plumbers who've come round over the last 20 years, every single one of them has said, I can take that out for you because it's ridiculous.

7:47And I've actually always felt a bit uncomfortable knowing that I've got a massive, great big water tank at the top of that. I don't like it, Jane. But I'd never considered it until now. And now you mention it, of course, it does seem. And of course, I then put into my AI search engine, whatever the hell it is. And you know when you're sometimes, you're in a moment of mild crisis and you put the wrong word in. I actually said, is my water tank in my lift? And did Claude have an answer to that? Did thinking come up for a long time? Thinking, thinking. It's so moronic. So it just said, it's extremely unusual.

8:29And very dangerous to have a water tank in a lift. No shit, Sherlock. How would that even work? I mean, it's so ridiculous. Because it isn't human, it can't think. We're just giving far too much credibility to this absurd creation. It took the whole query very seriously and said it was a very unorthodox way of living to have a water tangular lift. Anyway, pray for me. I've got that plumbing company that turns up but charges a fortune coming around later on today. OK, so your ball cock is probably. It is my ball cock, darling. Doing something wrong. Do you know where your stop cock is? I had to, unfortunately for me, and in a low point in my life, I had to WhatsApp my former husband early this morning.

9:16Oh, no. Do you know where the stop cock is? No, that's just. No, darling, I'm not. For all of the advances that we've made in the world of equality. It's terrible. We've just taken a massive step back. I just, I want to own my own shambolic approach. Did he know? He strikes me as a man who might not. Indeed. What I will say for him is he hazarded a guess, which is more than I could have done. Actually, I don't want to cast aspersions on him. He's always looked like a man who'd know exactly where his stopgut was. Right, how are we going to move on from this? I just don't know. Shall we talk about our tour?

9:51Oh, what a good idea. Yes. So, yeah, it is a good idea. And I just want to bring in the two listeners who have expressed excitement. Yes, well done, you two. extremely well done you get seats right at the front you really do actually uh patricia says fabulous you're coming to birmingham and i've booked my tickets i'll see you in march uh pat you will or pat um we love love you for being so off the quick off the mark very grateful thank you and clover amara's aunt who met fee and chatted with in london do you remember this i do yes i'm so excited to hear about the tour says clover will there be any other london dates or any close to London, others are too far away.

10:28Well, we've got a London date. I think probably adding another London date at this stage might be a little presumptuous, but we are in London at Cadogan Hall on Thursday, May the 20th. And that's Bloomsbury, isn't it? Cadogan Hall, no, it's not, it's Wimpole, isn't it? Not Wimpole, it's Wigmore. Wimpole, Wigmore. We've really got to nail that down before May the 20th. You've got Wig. I think it's on Wigmore Street. Okay, we must definitely both go to the same venue. Yeah, let's make sure we try to do that. But it's by that, I think it's quite close to that extraordinary chemist that is absolutely beautiful and sells absolutely everything.

11:10Every ointment, every emollient, every appliance. Well, they do, don't they? It's beautiful. So you can get a small tube of toothpaste and a mobility scooter all in the same chemist, can't you? You really can. It really is quite an incredible establishment. So just to reassure people, we are coming to Bristol, Glasgow, Birmingham, London, Salford and Harrogate. Yeah, we're finishing in Harrogate. Peaking. We had such a lovely time in Harrogate before. It was a fantastic audience. So we are looking forward to that. They've got bars there that we were too busy to visit last time round. We had to whiz back first thing the next morning, but I do want to try and make it to the Harrogate.

11:53Because it's a spa town, isn't it? It's a lovely spa town. Yeah, it really is. So we should try and do a little bit of sparring. No, it's a really elegant place, Harrogate. It's delightful. So I'm really glad we're going there right at the end of the tour. I mean, we're not the Rolling Stones. First of all, we're nowhere near as old as they are. In fact, we're literally 25 years younger than the Rolling Stones. So imagine we could carry on doing this for 25 years. Yeah. So think of us very much, we're like Oasis, but more cheerful. So do book your tickets now. I mean, you'll have more laughs. I think there's a lot of emotion on display at an Oasis gig, but I don't know whether, you know, full bladders, stop cocks, all of that.

12:34I don't know whether they go there. I don't think that their bants in between the tracks cover quite as much as we do. I very much doubt it. And I don't think Manchester City fans are going to have a lot to laugh about. That's all I'll say there. Well. Very much so. Good observation. Thank you. Now, you went to see something esoteric at the theatre on Saturday night. We went to see Wicca. Oh, you've been to see Wicca, right? Yes. And? Well, you must go and see Wicca. Okay. I thought it was... I'm just stretching for my coffee while I hear about this. ...so different to anything that I've seen at the movies.

13:09I mean, it's based on a fairy tale and it keeps you entranced. Obviously, it's completely unbelievable, but there's a morality backbone. Come on, T. Where's your imagination? So the plot is slightly unlovable by her own estimation, lady falls for a dreamy man. No, she doesn't fall for him. She decides that she is so lonely and is so ostracized by the other women in her village because she's on her own and she smells of fish. She is the local fisherwoman. And because they clearly, the other women are portrayed as women who just like someone to pick on. And so she gets fed up with being lonely. And she goes to see the really lovely, very wise and profound basket weaving man and says, can you weave me a partner?

14:05So he weaves a partner, the wicker man, who comes into the world with way more heart than you would imagine a piece of ratten furniture to have. And so there are all kinds of lessons that this made-up man can teach the born man. And it's very beautiful and very lovely. And it's full of really stunning one-liners. It takes down prejudice in a way that I've never seen before. I couldn't recommend it heartily enough. One hour, 45. That's 10 minutes longer than I'm at ease with. No, it's perfect. I think it's really, really perfect. Right. Yeah, really perfect. And it jogs along. You're not bored.

14:49No, not at all. It's very funny and beautifully acted and superb. It's a five star from me. Okay, golly. I think it might actually have ducked out of cinemas now. I think you might have to wait to watch it on your sofa. I think we caught the tail end of it. It's a nationwide showing. Oh, I can't believe I've missed that. It only seems to have just come on. Well, we went to see it at a very, we had to go to a kind of mid-afternoon showing, which always, and there was only one showing available, which always suggests it's the tail end. East-West Kensington, you know, we're not at the forefront of the cinema show.

15:24Well, also, you've got a multiplex, haven't you? And they always stay in a multiplex for much longer. We've got everything. Never knock it. Everything is at hand. Good. I'm very pleased to hear it. Well, I've got to boast about something.

16:04four these days I find myself quite likely to be awake and that's when those little but not so little worries creep in and really start to dominate your thinking. Well it's incredibly difficult to wind yourself back in and it's so true actually that just at a time when you should be calm and quiet and be able to enjoy that it's like it's a petri dish isn't it all of that quietness and all of that calmness that just lets the anxiety run riot it's one thing that our next guest is very well equipped to help us with joining us now is Imran Sterno who is head of AXA mental health Jane and I were just talking about our shared problem which is waking up in the middle of the night absolutely catastrophizing about things that of course in the middle of the night you can't do anything about does that sound like a familiar anxiety problem to you yes absolutely so whether you are young or slightly older like me a young 46 and we all have worries and things that keep us up in the night and often during the day we push them aside but if it's something that's been playing on your mind or something that is really significant for you it often pops up so yes it is a very common thing to have and I think the most important thing is just the feeling that someone will listen to you but that person can be sometimes quite hard to reach practically and in every other way.

17:33Yeah absolutely I think something that's really tricky is a fear that we all have about maybe opening up and what that means and what it might mean about us so there's always worries and there's lots of stigma around mental health, around anxieties and you know for all of us who are women who are juggling life and in the sandwich generation we have multiple worries and competing things that we're juggling all the time so yes sometimes we're worried that people won't want to listen but they really do sometimes i think one of the problems at the moment actually imran is that you can see other people across social media talking about their problems a lot and somehow that can also rather silence your own fears because you think well that's not what i'm suffering from maybe this isn't so bad and actually what is important to you is important to you we shouldn't always be comparing should we absolutely the comparison generation as I call it that's happening with social media is really worrying and you know we all know but I don't know whether we believe that individuals only put online what they want us to perceive and see and it isn't all real so yes it can make us feel really inadequate or it can make us feel maybe ungrateful for what we have as well it can have the reverse effect so the challenge is being open and honest and being brave, I guess, and knowing that people do care because we all do.

18:53Nobody should be struggling in silence. Tell us then how AXA Health can support somebody's mental health. Well, I think the key to gaining mental health support is access. And what AXA Health can do is offer you quick, straightforward and easy access into services. So because that's often the first barrier is the access. So we have a great 24-7 team that can offer you help any time of day and give you guidance because there is so much information out there and where to go and how to access it can often be a stumbling block and another area that we have is our doctor at hand which is our quick and easy GP service online which is fantastic and lots of people have reported how useful they've found it.

19:33So would you be able to tell us obviously without referencing any personal details at all the kind of things that people have come forward with? So for example something we're seeing that's quite common at the moment is burnout, work-related stress. There's often a worry that we are perceiving things that might not be a problem or is it a problem? Isn't it a problem? And when should we reach out for professional help? So they're the sort of things that we really do hear a lot from, from the people that contact us. Imran, thank you very much indeed. Fantastic stuff. Imran Sterno is head of AXA Mental Health.

20:10For Cover That Cares, choose AXA Health. They help their members feel listened to and supported with access to an online GP service and where covered mental health and specialist support. Access to treatment is subject to cover options chosen and pre-existing conditions are not covered.

20:37Hey, we're Nick and Jack hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's G-O-O dot G-L-E slash workspace with Gemini.

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21:44Now, Wendy has become a little bit of a convert to pickle. She only got silver today. Well, I mean, it's a bit niche, this. Was only 50 miles out, but too many years out. Right. Now I'm going to be hooked on Clipple, says Wendy. Now, Clipple, is that what you're doing on Thursday afternoons? It is. On the live show. which is? It's Times Radio. Get the Times Radio app. It's completely free. We're on two till four Monday to Thursday. We certainly are. But Wednesdays is a solo Jane and Thursday is a solo fee show. And some people have got kind of a little bit upset about that, but it genuinely is because we do a lot of shows across the week and we're quite old.

22:28Can we put it any fairer than that? So both of us just want a day where we're half day closing. It's like the old times. Essentially, that's it. On Wednesdays, I go home, I shut the shutters. No, Thursdays. I hope you don't because you're meant to be at work. No, because I'm on the radio. On Thursdays, I go home at lunchtime, put the shutters up, and if anybody comes knocking, I'm really rude to them. Well, exactly. And I'm on air on the Thursday, and we're doing Clipple, which is the audio version of Pickle. So we talk through the pickles of the week, and then we give you a little clip from the archives of anything.

23:06So it can be a political speech, it can be part of an advert, it can be from a movie, it can just be somebody talking. And it's just a short burst. And you've got to say basically who, where, when and why. I think it's a great idea. And you don't win anything but you go on the leaderboard and we have a big fanfare at the end. But I'll tell you what happened this Thursday, Jane. We had just started talking with Chris, the divisor of Pickle, because he comes up and we talk through the pickles of the week. We've just started our chat. It's on a Thursday, this item, because it's kind of end of the week feel to it.

23:37You know, let's all relax a little bit. And the verdicts in the Russell Brand case came through. Now, our radio audience is intelligent and perfectly capable of realising that we are then going to do two completely different things. For the rest of the programme, we're going to talk about something serious and actually pretty momentous in terms of our criminal justice system. And we're also going to carry on doing things like Clipple. So you have to just balance it. I always think as long as you tell the audience that's what you're doing, it'll be okay. And, yeah, we ploughed on with Pickle, but it definitely didn't get as much shine as it will do in a normal Thursday.

24:21And in the interest of transparency, we should say we are talking on Monday morning it's November the 9th and we don't yet have the sentence for Russell Brand um and we're not we don't want to come across as you know wise after the event but I think it's probably we should both say that neither of us were ever anything like apologists for Russell Brand or fan fans of this I used to think he was a seedy creep and I could honestly I've never veered from that estimation and you interviewed him I haven't interviewed him I thought when he said he was on the hour I sent you a message to my horror I remembered that he was on Woman's Hour he was on Woman's Hour I mean what was anybody thinking but Woman's Hour wasn't an outlier because this is when his book I mean the absurdly named I'm not even going to mention it but he had such a stupid fatuous name I think he wrote two books more or less the same name two memoirs for God's sake why was this I mean, it's just incredible when you think about it.

25:23So he was utterly, utterly mainstream. He was employed by Radio 2 and he was interviewed on Woman's Hour about his book. And he was on Question Time. Yeah, I mean, yeah. And he wrote a column for The Guardian and he was fated by the New Statesman magazine. This guy was everywhere and he was thought of as some kind of towering intellect, potentially the voice of our youth. I mean, I never remember him saying a single comprehensible thing, never mind a single empowering or notable thing. I just thought he was an idiot. But clearly, I mean, I don't think you liked him either, did you? No, I didn't like him, but I don't think that I can stand as firmly on the podium of permanent condemnation because I do remember when he arrived and I remember seeing him on Jonathan Ross on his chat show and I do remember thinking that is such a fast mind.

26:27So the pace at which Russell Brand delivered his stuff was what made him unique in the beginning. So what was his stuff? What was it he was actually saying? His stuff, I think he wanted to be a comic who said things that other people thought were unsayable. And there was a lot of that in the 90s. There was a lot of that celebration of the darker stuff. and certainly sexual darker stuff being said out loud in the name of we're all empowered now. And you and I have had this conversation before about being young women in that environment where I'm not sure that I will ever forgive the decade that was the 90s for making me think that I had to lean into that in order to be taken seriously and to be successful.

27:23And I think the great hoodwink Jane was that we as young women felt that if we did join in with that we were being taken as seriously as men and what we increasingly know and this is absolutely the story of Russell Brand is that nothing had changed in some men's minds about what young women represented to them. And the pain that that has meted out on so many lives is immeasurable. So we weren't empowered. We weren't emboldened. But I really feel for those young women who went to his gigs, who had a drink with him afterwards, who went to his hotel, who went to his house, who took tickets from him because I think they had the same mindset that I am being taken more seriously as a young woman because I'm capable of laughing at the kind of stuff that he's saying.

28:23And I think it's just we now know that's not what he was doing and not what he was doing at all. And I've heard quite a few commentators say, you know, we shouldn't blame the 90s and just say that it was against a different background. But there's something important there. There's something important. Some of his crimes were committed well into the 21st century. That's very true. Yes. I mean, we've moved on. I mean, it was 2008, 2009. I think he married Katy Perry in, I think, 2009. Yes. So I'm probably saying the 90s is a bit of shorthand, but I completely agree. That era. I mean, there is absolutely no doubt that his close circle absolutely turned a blind eye, encouraged, enabled.

29:08but it wasn't just them. No, not at all. It was elements of the media establishment. And you and I were working at the BBC at the time at which Saxgate erupted. And I knew people, Jane, who I've got so much time for, who really did believe the argument that if you hadn't heard that and been offended by it, you had no right to be offended by it. Because it was on the front page of the Daily Mail and it became this kind of, ooh, up in arms, Middle England. And there was definitely a liberal sentiment at the BBC that that was wrong, that you shouldn't be offended by it. Who was offended by it? Whatever.

29:49And I thought it was terrible. It was terrible at the time. It was a really nasty thing. It was so crude. I mean, Jonathan Ross, both of them were basically middle-aged men at the time. What on earth did they think they were doing? So they were trying to slut shame a woman to her grandfather. And what? On what planet? Who has that idea? On what planet? And a lot of people knew that that was going to be broadcast. And when it was broadcast, you know, didn't fall immediately on the many swords that should be lined up in the BBC corridors for this eventuality that has happened before. and there are still ongoing inquiries into other people employed by the BBC and celebrated by the BBC.

30:39And I don't want to just be dismissed as someone who's carping about the BBC now that we've left. But, you know, it has a high bar to keep. And it really, really, in my opinion, did not, actually. Let's take this opportunity to congratulate the journalist who worked so hard on this story. I think Charlotte Waste is one of them and Rosamund Irwin as well. Huge. Because that's a lot of work. Yes. And to be with those women and for them to trust their story, I think is such an important thing. And to be the journalist who takes on that trust is a massive thing as well. So I'm completely with you.

31:21But I think if we've learned anything, if a man who gives every indication that he is a preening, entitled Poppin' J, he's probably that and a lot more. And it definitely needs to be examined. And you need to interrogate these people and find out exactly what they're thinking and what they're up to and who the hell allows them to do it. Because far too many people seem to just think he's a character. And I know it's a hobby horse of mine, but there'd be no way on this earth that two middle-aged women would have done that hideous radio so-called joke on an elderly man. No way on this earth. And if they had, they'd never have worked in broadcasting again.

32:10Yeah, I think the women in the story are interesting though, Jane, aren't they? Because there are women, there are senior women at the BBC who absolutely adored Russell Brand. And in fact, I've never really understood why Jonathan Ross's career progressed or in fact carried on in any way after that episode. But it did. And so did, in fact, Russell Brand. His reputation grew, if anything, after that. It's just bizarre. Anyway, let's hope he, well, we know he's going to go to prison for a fairly substantial amount of time. And obviously other things might happen as well. I still don't understand how him and his wife were able to carry on creating content.

32:54Just no idea. Whilst he was standing trial. And I hope as the dust settles that there's a bigger conversation going on about that. There are lots of elements to this that we could all really learn something from. Surely he couldn't have been allowed to collapse his own trial by broadcasting. Well, there seemed to be a suggestion that that might happen if he carried on. So I don't know. And as far as I know, that has not been mentioned by the judge. But, you know, perhaps it's something that, well, possibly because he was found guilty. Yes, that we will come to discuss in a little bit more detail further down the line.

33:35But, you know, these two realities that we're living in, old fashioned analog contempt of court, and newfangled digital world of the public jury are colliding all over the place at the moment. And for victims who want to be able to believe that they can come forward and that their anonymity will be respected and that the jury won't be swayed during a trial and also that details of what happened to them might stay within court. I think these are important things to talk about too because there's so much coverage now of a trial like this. It must be incredibly difficult as a person at the centre of it to know that millions of people, millions of people know within seconds the detail of what's happened to you.

34:33Your hideous experience, yeah. Yeah. And that just wasn't, it just wasn't the case, you know, 10 years ago, even five years ago. And I mean, let's just be honest, we wouldn't have had the podcasts either. There have been innumerable podcasts about the Russell Brand trials. And you're right. So every, again, let's be honest, salacious detail has been reported, recorded. It's out there for all time. So it must be excruciating for the victims to be aware of. Yeah. And also, and I think we said this, didn't we, about Jeffrey Epstein, that you then have to see the image of your abuser everywhere, just everywhere.

35:17You know, billboards, phones, person sitting on the train next to you's phone. you know it's astonishing it's astonishing how that just is there in in the world around us nearly all the time it must be so very painful it's just another reminder of just the courage required to actually come forward and say this happened to me and i want it i want it i want a hearing i want to be heard i want it to be dealt with but it i'm afraid it's not without consequences it really isn't. You will probably carry on bearing that, well, carrying that experience with you for the rest of your life. Of course you will.

35:59I hope it's made easier by the fact that the person responsible does pay some sort of penalty. But I mean, even if Russell Brand, let's say he does get a sentence of, let's say, seven or eight years, which is probably possible. He'll serve about half of that, presumably, unless something else happens. But the person with the memories isn't going to lose them in four years. Total life sentence. Yep. There are other cases which are now being investigated by the CPS, which may head to court. So we'll see what happens there.

36:44Hey, we're Nick and Jack hosts of the best one yet behind every episode. There's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google doc, the headline hammer with Google workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools. We already use like Gmail docs and sheets, no new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini.

37:18A rug shouldn't just fit your room. It should make your home feel finished. Ernesta creates designer quality rugs, custom fit to the exact size of your space, so every room feels beautifully pulled together. Explore Ernesta's range of options, all ready to be custom cut, finished, and delivered to your door in as little as two weeks. Start with five samples for just$10 and get$50 toward your rug when you order. Visit Ernesta.com today. That's E-R-N-E-S-T-A dot com. Shall we make one of our astonishing gear changes? I'm going to move on to Claire from Stoke Poges, who joins us and our conversation about jack of potatoes.

38:03okay can i just say of all the handbrake turns you've done that's right up there sister well we can do it and you know our audience know us well enough to know that we we don't you know we don't want to cause any offense by talking about incredibly serious things and then lightening the load uh so claire says fee shouldn't be squeamish about reheating jack of potatoes twice baked potatoes are incredibly good for you as something happens to the fiber did you know this Blimey, didn't you pick this up at your gut retreat? It should have been a nugget you came back with. No, sad. I didn't. If the potatoes are cooked, cooled and then reheated or prepared, a portion of their digestible starch transforms into prebiotic fibre.

38:45Of course it does. I'm going to say it again. Prebiotic fibre. And gut health is what we all want these days, Claire. Too right. Claire says, I always cook more potatoes than I need and then often air fry without any extra fat the next day. They're delicious, even more delicious if you do add fat, obviously, but still good without. It's just true of everything, Claire, isn't it? Do you know, I still don't have an air fryer. Am I the last person standing? I think you are. Okay. Would you not consider just getting a tiny, just a tiny little one? You don't have to do everything. Because air fryer's these, you know, you can buy kind of four compartment ones.

39:20I find them very complicated. But just the little one to just shove your scampi in. Scampi? You'd be chicken in a basket next. if only I could. What is scampi? Is it prawns in a breadcrumb coating? Do you know what? I hate to tell you this, but we have definitely talked about this on the podcast before. We haven't. Yes, we have. And because I'm pretty sure that scampi is a monkfish tail. Honestly, I think if one of our more listen and detail listeners, they might know. Okay. Can tell us which episode it was on. Let's move on seamlessly to Caroline. No, I'm looking it up. No, you do some research and I'll bring in Caroline.

39:59I came across this while wasting time. We've all done that. It follows the episode when Jane was so vocal about her dislike of Africa, the song Not the Continent, and I found myself nodding along in agreement. Then this landed in my line of vision, and now I feel I could almost change my mind. I know you're stubborn, Jane, but can this sway your opinion even a little? Okay, it's a wonderful thing which you have now shown me on, did you find it on YouTube or Instagram? It's on the Instagram. It's on Instagram. And it's of a crowd at the American version of X Factor. And a fantastic young female vocalist encourages the audience to join in with Africa by Toto.

40:41And it kind of works, doesn't it? In fact, it's really moving. It's brilliant. Yeah. And now I am wavering, Caroline. I still think the song itself is rotten. But to hear it produced by an audience like that and with such enthusiasm, I may be, I may be on the cusp of considering changing my mind. Wouldn't go any further than that. She does say I'm a West London girl. M &S in Chiswick is my local shop. I have seen Jane in there a couple of times, but I've been too shy to say hello. I think I must be overwhelmed by your celebrity status. As in normal life, I'm not reluctant to step in and say my bit.

41:18Well, Caroline, next time, do just say something. I mean, I'm in there quite frequently in the weekends. I don't want to give away my schedule, but I do have quite a strict schedule. And let's say that it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that I was there very recently. But that shop, we've mentioned it before, you need a Sherpa to find your way around it. There's so much going on. It used to be quite easy to navigate when it was smaller and not as good. But now it's enormous and fantastic. Honestly, you need to be you need to have a certain amount of courage to step in. There's a lot of temptation, a lot of choice, and it's quite confusing.

41:55Yeah. Anyway. I do sympathise. We've got a whopping food hall in Hackney. They've got a lot of different counters that I'm still too intimidated to use. Sushi, chicken. Yes, all of those, but also they've got the package yourself things, you know, great big kind of tubs on the walls of pulses and grains that you can just pop into your own containers. and I'm afraid to say I'm just, I'm so convinced I'd get it wrong or tip something over or, you know, maybe end up with nine kilograms of lentils that I couldn't put back. Yeah, okay. Or pouring onto the floor. Exactly. I just, I can't use them. I can't use them.

42:35I might wait for a time when the store is very, very empty. So I can go in and kind of practice. Wonderful there that is. It does rely on you taking your container with you. I think they've done something clever. so you can get a collapsible container. I don't know. I'll report back. Capitalism. Honest to God. Scampi in the UK strictly refers to the breaded or battered tail meat of the longustine. Frequently served with chips or as part of a classic pub meal. Classic. The United States, well, they go their own way. They would. The term shifted when Italian immigrants swap longustines for local shrimp.

43:11In American cuisine, Scampi describes a preparation style This is shrimp sauteed in a garlicky butter, white wine and lemon sauce often served over pasta. And in Europe, as noted in online currently culinary discussions, scampi is the Italian word for the whole crustacean itself rather than a specific recipe. I see. Younger listeners won't understand the wonderful world of dining in a basket. Oh, I know. That was... That was... What was that about? I don't know. Was it to save on washing up? Well, because this is before we really started to care about packaging and the environment. Presumably all those baskets from pubs were just hurled into the bin.

43:59No, I don't think they were. I think maybe you've hit on it that you could have a basket and then you just put a napkin, a serviette into it, didn't you? And then you put the fried chicken. It used to be the ultimate treat. The ultimate treat. to go for chicken in a basket. Yeah. Yep. And that was it. I mean, there wasn't a selection of dips or anything else that came with it. No, no, this is pre-chicken shop as well, we need to say, when chicken was fried chicken of this sort, was restricted to chicken in a basket pub establishments. Yep. I think. I'm sure there's someone's doing it in a retro style and everything's in a basket.

44:37Do let us know if you have your own basket at home. M of Disley and Boiled Sausages says, just to chime in, that a hot water bottle has always been called a hottie in my family. And that did lead to much confusion when I started reading teen magazines in the 1990s. Another family favourite is calling a horse a hawkey, which, aged 43, I still exclaim out loud every time I pass one. This is quite a full-time job as I live in the Peak District. My dad actually maintains a spreadsheet of family nicknames for everyday items and regularly reminds us that one of us will have to take over the maintenance of it one day.

45:17Please see attached. Now, these are Johnsonisms. There are so many. We haven't got time. They're really brilliant. Some of them are fantastic. My favourite, I think, is quite early on in the list. I mean, look, the list is absolutely extraordinary. It's number seven, which is Buffle, B-U-F-F-L-E. and the definition of buffle is make snorting noises when sleeping. Yeah, so someone has been buffling overnight. I think that's excellent but there are many many more. I think we need to put some of them up on the Insta. I think we probably should if that's okay with our correspondent. Yeah, let us know because some of these strike me as being very personal and I don't want to tread on personal family ground but I think we're okay with buffle.

46:09What does wedding tackle? Wedding tackle. Wedding tackle. There's so many. No, I can't actually find the I'm getting all confused with my bits and bobs here. But you've got all kinds of definitions. I'm incredibly impressed. What a quirky family you sound. Well, very much so. The idea that you need a spreadsheet for your quirkisms was new to me as well. But thank God they're all written down because many of them are brilliant. We will fill it and edit and tomorrow we'll do some more of them. But imagine entering this family as a potential difficult appendage or in-law and they all sort of break into their...

46:50What do you think is the thing that when marriage comes upon either of your two lovelies, what do you think... Gosh, it's still a lifetime away. The thing that's going to define your family in the eyes of the incomer? God, I mean, that's a really good question because every family is properly odd. And I think as long as you acknowledge that, that is in itself quite helpful. But our idiosyncrasies are many and varied. And I wouldn't say we had traditions exactly, but we do have quirky words for things. For example, I often call my children cupboard. Cupboard? Yeah. Cupboard? I know. I've just realised that.

47:38So we're quirky and maverick and batty is wealthy. Yeah. Yeah, that's a word I use as a kind of, as an endearment. Cupboard. Can you remember the first time that you looked at one of your children and thought, cupboard? I think it's because I associate a cupboard with a storage for food and therefore it's a companionable comforting thing. Yeah. Okay, so never wardrobe. I am going to be taken away by people in white coats at the end of this. Never shelf, just cupboard. No, never a shelf. No, that's interesting. Never a bracket or a hinge. No. But just full-bodied cupboard. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, fair enough.

48:18We have a lot of names in our family for inanimate objects. Okay, like. You know, so Steve, my daughter has one of those great big kind of warm, cuddly, all-in-one loungewear things. Yeah. And since the pandemic, he's always been Steve. And it's a he. It's definitely a he. This cuddly entity. Yes. I don't know what you'd call it. It's a great big kind of, it's like an oversized indoor hoodie. Right. And it's always been Steve. And, you know, when she comes downstairs wearing it quite often, we'll say, Steve, how are you? We talk to it. Like it's an actual person. Okay. And we also have inanimate objects that we move around the house just to spook each other.

49:01So two little trolls at Christmas who turn up all over the place. You are thinking of marrying into this family. I mean, ours is mad. Hers is madder. Which are always quite funny. And a couple of photographs that we put in funny places. So you'll open the freezer and it's just a massive picture of Carlos Alcaraz. Right. keeps us going. Well, I mean, I'll tell you what, if we ever do have that power cut we keep being threatened with, at least we know what you'll still be chuckling away, eating your corned beef and having a right old laugh. And actually you'll all be trying to get into Steve. It will be very, it'll be very difficult if people come into the family who don't think it's funny because it will just really, just kill the vibe, Jo.

49:47I do think entering other people's little traditions. It's very, very difficult indeed. And how are you going to feel if the loved one of either of your two lovelies starts using cupboard? Will you feel proprietorial about it? I feel, I'm already feeling, even the fact that you now know it, and indeed anybody else listening to this, I think it's, I think it's quite disturbing. But I've got a friend, I won't mention her name or indeed the name she uses for cereal, but she calls serial something really quite distinct and it's to do with something that one of her children said back when they first started speaking.

50:28And I sometimes call serial this now. I don't want to give away her idiosyncrasies because she's not agreed to be a part of this, although she is a listener. But we're all mad, aren't we? Absolutely. Because there's so much... Crazy. It keeps us going. There's so much trouble in the world. So it's actually, it's this kind of flotsam and jetsam that we actually need to hold very close to us. Totally. Because it's harmless and it's, there's a gentleness about it that I think we discard at our peril. Yeah, I'm with you. I think it's actually very significant and very important. And basically it's happy stuff, isn't it?

51:09Yes. And it's silly stuff. And don't ever take the silly out of life. Quite emotional. Yeah, no. Silly's so good. There's a new series of Shetland this week. I know, but I always get, I start off quite well and then I get confused. Well. I'll give it a whirl. Just bring it on. It's Tosh's last ever season, isn't it? Yes. Well, I didn't know she was leaving, but now I do. It is. So, spoiler. I will be looking out for the creaking floorboards in the otherwise stone police station.

51:36Is that, that's true, is it? Yeah. Yeah. So, just listen out. The floorboards squeak and then they pan out. Right. And it's a stone. And it's a stone. It's a granite police station. Right. Well, you need to write in. You need to write in. I see them. Yeah. I'm looking forward to it hugely. We've been trying to watch Black Doves. Oh, I haven't got into that. Oh, Jane. I mean, just the number of people shot in it is just so, it's just ridiculous. Well, can I just use this opportunity to say, I still don't care who plays James Bond. The stories are dribbling out again about who's been going for audition.

52:12It's just a pretend spy. Just give the job to somebody, get on with it. But stop this endless publicity fluff about who it might be. I mean, I'm sure no one cares that much. Do they? I mean, do they? I think only the person concerned and the agent and all the other people who've clearly been spurned. Can I just say on the Black Doves thing, because I did hear our colleague, Ed Vasey, that's Lord Vasey, Eddie Vasey. he said exactly the same thing and I was glad that he said it on air when they were doing a TV review of Black Doves there is an opening sequence and this isn't giving anything away at all where about 20 people are shot in a hotel suite they're all bodyguards and they just get completely and utterly taken out by the Black Doves.

53:00So they're all obliterated. They're all obliterated within about three minutes. For what purpose? And as he said, that's 20 families and I thought thank you for saying that. And he was in the company of someone who kind of mildly took the mickey out of him for putting it that way. But that's what I see too, when innumerable people are just taken out, you know, with AK-47s. It's not integral to the plot. It is completely about computer games. It's because so many directors and film people play computer games. that has been in their head. So they think, oh, you know, we need that point of view, that POV of I'm taking them all out.

53:44We don't, actually. We really, really don't. That's not why I'm watching it. I find it really chilling and I'd like it to stop, Jane. I think the best shows, I think Blue Lights is one of them, does actually show you the ripple effect of a single death. And that's why they're really emotionally intelligent. They stay with you. You love the characters. I completely agree. And that's why don't more shows recognise that and understand that just spraying a room with gunfire and creating misery for 20 separate family units is that entertainment. It's horrible. Yeah, when you actually think about it.

54:27But then I imagine in every James Bond film we never hear about, is there bereavement counselling for the people whose loved ones are killed in a James Bond film? Well, they always were very lacking in emotion, weren't they? You know, but their success tells us another story. Oh, I mustn't itch my eyebrow too much. It's gone a bit flaky. It's probably time to stop.

54:52Well, we started with bladder issues and we're ending with a flaky eyebrow. Is that dry skin, darling? It is. Yes. Okay. I've had my brows done. Do you notice? No, because, well, I'm sorry, but you've got the same problem as me. What? Well, the rim of your glasses literally is... Oh, covers the eyebrows. Covers your eyebrow. Could you just lift your glasses up so the world can see the eyebrow? No, put them on again. That's just rude. Right, just briefly mention those dates again, because you'll be wanting to make a note of this. I'll be doing a solo tour. He won't be there. Bristol, February the 25th.

55:30We've got Glasgow. Now, people say playing Glasgow is tough, don't they? Do you remember all the stories? We haven't played Glasgow before. I know, we've done it and we've had your tea. But Glasgow is a very friendly city, although they always used to say it was showbiz, variety hall, acts playing the Glasgow Empire was the toughest gig of the Lord. I fell over in Red Square in Glasgow after a three-hour standing up broadcasting performance. And did anybody pick you up? No, the adrenaline literally left my body and we were walking away. Yeah. And I just, my legs just stopped functioning. What year was this?

56:07Oh, it's about, it's probably about 1998. Okay, and no drink had been taken. No drink had been taken at all, no. But the production team had forgotten to book a table and chairs. Oh, done, I'm so sorry about that. Which organisation were you working for at the time? The BBC. Right, well, Times will look after us and look at the chairs they've given us here. Well, that's all I want, have a chair. A chair. I mean, it's freezing cold, but we have got chairs. So back to, we enjoyed one of Fi's anecdotes there, but let's go back to the schedule. So Bristol, February the 25th, Glasgow, March the 11th, Birmingham, March the 18th, London, May the 20th, Salford, June the 17th and Harrogate, June the 27th.

56:50And I don't know about you, Fi, but I think a ticket or two for one of our shows would make a wonderful Christmas gift. What a great idea. Along with a copy of our best-selling book. our seminal work. Which I know, we did have an email from someone saying they bought a copy recently. In fact, I think more than one copy. And they'd thoroughly enjoyed it. And they actually said, don't put yourself down. Stop doing that. We're only kidding. Yeah. Maybe we should. Maybe we shouldn't. So yes, do come along. It will be fun. We don't really know what's going to be in our shows, but we always do the same kind of shtick that we do on the podcast, which is lots and lots of involvement from all of you and the full spectrum of conversation.

57:32That's what's available. And if you're lucky, Jane will rekindle her impersonation of Princess Margaret. No, I think I might do somebody else this time. Who would you like to do? It doesn't need to be a member of the British royal family. We could go elsewhere, I think, for inspiration this time. But you came up with the, that was a funny idea about Princess Margaret. I mean, I did feel slightly lumbered with the acting role, whereas you got to play Royal Plumley. but I think, yes, it was Desert Undisc, wasn't it? Let's have a creative juice flow session and see what we can come up with. I don't mind dressing up to a point.

58:11Well, very sadly, the Christmas show that we had to cancel for completely understandable reasons because your mum was really, really poorly at the time, we had ordered our costumes, hadn't we? Because we were both going to do that show in costume. Well, I'm just thinking, I've been looking at the dates here, there's nothing very seasonal March the 18th is perilously close to St. Patrick's Day which is the day before these are all Thursdays by the way these gigs maybe I could dress up as a leprechaun on Thursday March the 18th just to keep up with the St. Patrick's Day spirit of the day before well I'll look forward to that but it's just worth saying Thursdays I think they're a good day to have one of our shows because it's much less pressure than trying to entertain people on a Friday feels like a biggie Saturday colossal but Thursday I mean if you just have half a chuckle then it's not a bad start to the weekend and you're close to the weekend so you won't be too tired so I yeah I I think it's worth it cheaper train fares and cheaper train for us so come if you can we'd love to see you yeah it would we'd love to see you obviously uh but we'll for the moment.

59:23Can we stop because I really genuinely do need to go to the... I feel you're filibustering just in the hope that something goes wrong. No, I'm not. Fee, I wouldn't be that cruel. I'm cruel, but not that cruel. Hang on a sec. I'm going to put my hand up. Please go to the loom now. Let her go. Let her go. Stop. Don't sing Let It Go.

1:00:05Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.

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1:02:36Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini.