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2:51Just majestic, Jane. I'd never been to Chatsworth House before. Had you? I had. But as ever, I do get all confused with my stately homes. But there's just a moment, isn't there, when you go up the, shall we say, the drive to Chatsworth House, which is in the Peak District in Derbyshire, and you see it. And you just go, wow. What? You cannot, you think your eyes are deceiving you. it is like a vision AI, CGI they couldn't come up with anything so in fact it's a very good point because those people back in the day who landscaped the ground so you did have that moment of wonder when you arrived props to them because there is always a sharp intake of breath, you come round the corner you come out of a small copse or whatever it is you turn off the main road it's not just there's Chatsworth House it's like boom Oh, boy.

3:49There's Chatsworth House. Now, I know that you're in the process of moving home. Yes. Have you put an offer in for Chatsworth? Chatsworth? Give it a whirl. How much of Chatsworth House do you think, even if we pulled, are not inconsiderable? No, that's true. We've been very fortunate. Wow. Pots together. I think... I think we might be able to buy that potting shed. The potting shed. We spent a bit of time in. Yes. The potting shed had been turned into a media centre. We'd better explain what the event was. It was the Queen's Reading Room Literary Festival. So this is Queen Camilla's Reading Club, which you can join, anybody can join, and they do lots of very interesting books, quite often on the same kind of path as our book club.

4:31So stuff that really appeals to our community as opposed to stuff that's just been punted at you by the publishing industry, although we love the publishing industry. God, we love them a lot. Punt away. so we were at the kind of real version of that which is this astonishing literary festival held at chatsworth house the very very great and the good were in attendance who did we see asleep well i mean i'll tell you who we didn't see our executive producer rosie claimed a blast from the past was there pointed across the car park shouted this person's name oh look it's filling the gap and all of us were like, no.

5:10No. No. Because they're dead. No, they're very dead. They're very dead. But I love Rosie for her insistence because she was absolutely convinced that it was her. Yeah. But it really wasn't. I've relived that moment in my mind. I've chuckled a lot about it. She'd just never been more wrong. Geoffrey Archer, one of your old flames. Well, we didn't see him. No, we didn't. I think he was around, wasn't he? He was. We were on the same train as Giles Brandreth. That's what I wanted you to say. Yes. Yeah, dear Giles. And Kate Moss was there, Elif Shafak was there, Lee Childs was there. We were doing an interview with Harlan Coburn.

5:45Yeah, and actually, wasn't he? I mean, we didn't have to work very hard. Sometimes you meet people who are so good at not only at writing best-selling novels that are eagerly adapted by the likes of Netflix, but just so good at, frankly, selling their wares. And there's no shame in that. It's a wonderful gift. Yeah, he is super, super fluent. He really is. And he had just got off a plane from New Jersey where he lives and he had terrible back pain. He's a tall gentleman. He's six foot three or four. Yeah, and I often think tall people often have bad back pain, don't they? Well, short people struggle with that.

6:21I think most people have back pain, don't they? Yeah, so I always think it must be worse. There's just more back, isn't there, when you're six foot four? Six foot four, actually, that's true. That's his. Anyway, he was clearly in quite a lot of pain and he delivered the most superb kind of masterclass in how to write a book because his latest book is exactly that. It's memoir and it's a guide to writing. And I loved it, actually, Jane. I really loved it. I think it's a great little book about lots of things, actually. He had a lovely bit of self-deprecation about him too, didn't he? Yeah. Which I liked.

6:52And I think if anyone does just want quite sound and quite strict advice on how to write a book, Plot Twist is something I would recommend. I mean, he comes up with some quite, it might seem like basic advice but as he says going to a coffee shop and thinking about writing a book isn't the same as actually sitting at home and writing a book and in fact he's got a lovely paragraph in the book hasn't he about uh going and buying a notebook uh isn't writing joining a supportive writers club on facebook isn't writing writing down some ideas isn't writing absolutely nothing's writing actually sending off your details to an agent isn't writing writing Writing.

7:33Writing is writing. Yeah. And I was cringing and thinking, tick, done that, done that, done that, done that. How is the book coming along? How do you know me so well? Well, it hasn't. So we really enjoyed meeting him. And if you're thinking, I'd like to hear that. Well, there's good news, isn't there? Well, isn't there just, Jane? Because that will be made available to your ears sometime in the festive period. One of those gappy days, you know, the I don't really know what day it is in between. The 27th, 28th, something like that. will pop it out there and you can go and hide in the laundry cupboard and listen to it.

8:05Have a week. And he is entertaining. Do you know what? I really love his life story as well, Jane, because he was the parent. He's got four children. His wife is a very successful paediatrician. She went back to work every time after having a baby. You'd really want to avoid an unsuccessful paediatrician. You'd want your children to steer well clear as well, wouldn't you? Let's own it. We were driving around London this weekend just noting at all of those, exactly those ridiculous, asinine descriptions. Our favourite this weekend was professional massage. I just... I just... I just need a way, but I've no idea what I'm doing.

8:44I just prefer it. If I just walk in, yeah, someone just walks across me. Okay. Anyway, yes, you were making the point that he'd been a househusband and main carer. Yes, and that's when he knew that he wanted to be a writer, but you know that's that's how they divvied up their duties and actually I think it's very difficult to be a creative person when you're on child care duty because it's very hard to find that allotted time to say to yourself I'm going to go and be creative now between 9 45 and 11 30 in between kindergarten drop off and you know middle school pickup I think that's a hard ask I think most creative people's brains don't really work like that.

9:27And often you hear that people have been given this incredible kind of generous sweep of time from their partners that's enabled them to go off and paint. I think maybe painters are a bit notorious in that respect, needing their own studio, their own space, their own timeline, all that kind of stuff. And I just immensely admire a man who said, I'm going to do both. I'm just going to make myself work during the only hours I've got available to me. And I'm going to do all of the other stuff. And it's well worth listening to the interview just because he's so funny about the way that he got treated.

10:02Oh, my goodness. Well, he really owns the fact that people were so nice to him and would never knock him for his inadequacies, his logistic, logistical inadequacies. He might forget a packed lunch. They just thought it was charming. Yeah. They wouldn't think the same if it were a female carer who forgets the packed lunch, doesn't keep up to speed with when the school trip is, all of that stuff. I thought he was incredibly honest about that, actually. Yeah, so all-round nice guy. He did see, I mean, he certainly seemed that way. And you and I, we're good judges. I just, our track record just really sings that.

10:35We also just want to say, what a gift shop. If you're familiar with Chatsworth, you'll know this. But if you want chutney or indeed room spray, which I took back with me, and now my house smells like a stately owned. Does it? So they're classy products. Yes. I thought they were so reasonable. I've got two very, very amusing cards, a very large bar of handmade chocolate, some of the Duke's own vintage marmalade. And I like to imagine that he stirred that Seville marmalade all by himself. Oh, I bet he did. And some Picachilli. Can you see what they've done there? I think I do see. And I'm quite angry that you bought that.

11:10and I didn't see it. I know, I know. I did crack that open yesterday. Any good? Yes, every bit as good as it looks. But all of that for 20 quid. I mean, that doesn't, that's kind of five gifting opportunities, albeit I've opened the Piccolilly, but I don't think they'll notice. Well, people could do all their Yuletide shop up there, couldn't they? It smells of Christmas, didn't it? Because they had their Christmas decorations out too soon. Let's not quite go there. Also, let's just say the Peak District is one of those parts of England that is perhaps not much celebrated outside the UK. And it really deserves to be.

11:43Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do. Yes, Emmerdale's there, isn't it? No. No, it isn't. Emmerdale is very firmly rooted in Yorkshire. Is it? Yes. But thank you for that. And it bigs up, backs up my long-held view that the Cotswolds, although in their own way lovely, are incredibly overrated. You've really got it in for the Cotswolds. Well, I just don't. I think there are more beautiful parts of England, never mind the rest of the country. But I don't think the Cotswolds has ever said that it is the most beautiful part of England. People go on about it all the time. No, but isn't it just the certain type of person who's moved there because it's close to London, it's close to Heathrow, it's close to Ed Vasey.

12:23And so, you know, they're people who've got loud voices, haven't they? Well, I wish they'd just shut up. Yeah, but maybe the Peak District and the Dales have the last laugh because they're not infiltrated by all of that mob. I don't think Jay-Z and Beyonce and Ellen and the Chipping Norton set are buying up all of their houses and installing cinemas and spas and then expecting locals to pay four times as much as what they bought it for. I just also want to say we had the best cab driver since the woman in Hei-on-Wai who'd lost the top of her finger in a jousting accident, which was some years ago now.

13:05Well, we can name her. She was Bev, wasn't she? She was Bev and she had become immensely friendly with her ChatGPT, which she had called Alex. And she had asked her ChatGPT if she could have a name. And ChatGPT said, yes, I'm Alex, which is a very clever answer. because it's androgynous, isn't it? We found out quite a lot about Bev in a journey that I think was about 18 minutes long. And she was a spirit, a force of nature. Yeah, she had a lovely turn of phrase as well. She had an excellent turn of phrase. Sitting off in bed like a Victorian corpse. She said at one point. She was also a brilliant driver.

13:44Let's just say that. And someone who'd actually had her own business and had decided to go into cabbing. And actually, I tell you what, she's an absolute natural. Yeah. Yeah, and she should have a show of her own because she was very, very funny. I don't think I've met anybody yet who has so openly admitted to having a friendship with ChatGPT. No, she was my first, yeah. Because most people who have, I think, are still maybe hiding that away. Well, we did have an email. Because it's not a norm. From a young woman who I think was in that position not that long ago. Somebody emailed the podcast and said, I'm a bit worried that I am getting quite fond of my chat GPT friend.

14:25Bev was unapologetic and she was all in. And said, you know, chat GPT, Alex is more interesting than my husband. I'm letting Alex Mann explain things to me. My husband isn't getting a look in. Her husband had an annoying something, didn't he? I can't remember what it was. Oh, there was something. We don't want to say too much more in case people are identifying this lady. But yes, the chat GPT thing did surprise me. But honestly, most importantly, she couldn't have been a better driver. And we made our train. And at one point, there was a little bit of doubt about that because roads have been closed because the Queen had arrived in a chopper.

15:04And that meant that it was a little tricky for us to make the train back to the smoke. But we did it. Yeah. Of course, the train was delayed, but we had some drinks. Well, we did. Yeah. All in all, a cracking day out. and if you follow us on the Instagram, you would have seen some images from the trip. We basically, we saturated our delay and it felt better for it. Yes, it really did. Full on onion action. That conversation won't please Sarah, who was listening to us and sending this to us whilst in an emergency situation. On the train to Waterloo at 5.45pm and I'm being practically gassed by somebody's full on onion meal.

15:45Can't see it, just smell it. I can feel it and I can breathe it. Maybe I'm not used to rail travel and busy times nowadays. Someone else is conducting a meeting and ploughing his way through a massive pasta salad. I'm all about freedom except for noisy or smelly food on public transport at crowded times. If one of the political parties suggested a ban, I might be tempted to back them. Oh, well, onwards and upwards. Very best wishes. Well, best wishes back to you, Sarah. Sometimes just being able to tell somebody about what's happening to you on the train can be enormously helpful. We're very much here for all of those moments.

16:20But I'm with you. The amount of stuff that people eat, I mean, just on that train journey that we were on. Well, we had. We said yes to some free boxes of food. We took everything that was offered to us, even though we weren't in the normal daytime scope of a mealtime, were we? I should say that the East Midlands Railway steward was excellent. He was a lovely lad. and it was extremely helpful. I did think the drinks we were getting were free. It turned out, in fairness, you paid for them. Yes, they were free for you. They were entirely free. They remain free, Jack. But we also had one of those, I'm going to say exquisite, lunch boxes.

16:59I had a plough person's box. And you're right, it wasn't a meal time, but I said yes to it because we were delayed. It wasn't really food. Well, its eat by or use by date was well into next year. Of course. How can that be? Well, because the cheese in it, I mean, it was barely identifiable as cheese. It was extremely odd. And then we had some nice little crackers. I mean, the crackers will keep going for ages, won't they? I mean, a cracker, I think you can get a year out of a cracker in a cupboard. Perhaps you can. I still want to get a year out of a cracker. And then there were these little bags of, you know, the really original old-fashioned pickled onions, you know, the mini, mini onions.

17:39and you just never see them now because they've been so usurped, especially in our part of town, I apologise, by the kimchi and the exquisite pickling and the homemade pickling and the artisan whatevers. You just never see a little, just a little fiery, fiery pickled onion. But that would upset Sarah if everyone was wafting their pickles around. Yes, well, it would. But who'd have thought, certainly from my youth, I would have been amazed if you told me at eight or nine that the butter bean would have such an incredible revival in the 21st century. I mean, butter beans were the... I mean, they were the naval fluff of most primary school lunches.

18:27And now... God, I don't think we ever got served. Didn't you? Oh, they were very much... A legume. Well, they were up north, let me tell you. Really? But I cannot believe that they're now in jars. They've moved out of tins. there in jars and people love them. I love them. Yeah. But I I'm amazed. I mean, kale was reinvented. What do you think will never, ever have a comeback? Oh, that's a good question. Food stuff. Yep. Well. Do you think the corned beef and the kind of spam? I mean, no, because people like spam. People like spam now. That's had a bit of a revival. I don't know. That's a good question.

19:03The rissole. The rissole. Sorry. I don't think that's had a revival. If you have revived it, do let us know, Jane and Fee at times.radio. And also if you're still buying the tiny little pickled onions that haven't been messed with at all, they've just literally, they're an onion that's been pickled, that's it. As we were royal adjacent to the weekend, well, I'm steering the conversation around to something that we can't really ignore, which is the Charles versus Charles. Oh, well done. Steer away. Thank you for that. because you watched Charles Spencer's interview with Laura Koonsberg, didn't you?

19:40And I listened to it. I can't remember why. Oh, I was walking home from somewhere, so I listened to it yesterday afternoon. Do you think I got a different, my views might be different because I couldn't see them, I could just hear them? Well, what are your views? I still don't know who to believe. I'm both rather sad that all this has come out and it's all being regurgitated again, and then another part of me will read the book. I know I will. I'm getting a copy tomorrow, Eve has promised me. And I'm not going to pretend I'm not going to read it. I absolutely will go home and I will read it. So what does that say about me?

20:17Well, that I'm a prat and that I'm inconsistent. But listeners know that anyway. Did you have a very certain viewpoint before you listened to that interview? No, I don't think I did. I know that lots of people seem all too keen to tell us that Charles Spencer is a bad lot. A lot of people do say that, don't they? um it's out there as a so-called popular view now I don't obviously don't know him from Adam uh nor do you we have met him haven't we because we've interviewed him we have yeah uh and I've heard other people say that as an interviewee he's extremely charming and has impeccable manners when you kind of expect that wouldn't you I also think he's a very good writer um I read his book about his miserable experience at boarding school and I thought it was really really cleverly written and very moving.

21:04So that's another reason, I suppose, that I was quite keen to read this book. But do I believe, well, is it possible? What did you think about his answer to the question about whether the king really said what he's accusing him of saying in the immediate aftermath of Diana's death? So which bit? That's the, he sounded giddy as a lottery winner. Yeah. So I think two things can be true at the same time with this. And actually, before I watched the interview with Laura Koonsberg, I think I was rather on the side of the king and just very much felt there wouldn't be anything that I could now see. And I've read quite a lot of stuff about it, like you haven't read the book in its entirety yet.

21:51And actually, I may not. I didn't think that there would be much that would change my viewpoint. But when I watched Charles Spencer, I did think that his grief and his consternation and his emotions were all very believable. So I was quite surprised that I had my opinion nudged on quite so much. But I think grief and traumatic grief takes people in all kinds of directions. and I have definitely witnessed, especially amongst people who have lost somebody incredibly suddenly, who've lost very, very young people, an almost euphoric reaction in those moments and days and hours afterwards where it is obviously such an extreme position to suddenly find yourself in.

22:45Your brain doesn't know which of the emotions fit, so something weird comes out. And I think we've all known people who've displayed grief in ways that we have found unpalatable. So sometimes you'll go to funerals and the people who've been affected most by the person whose life you're there to celebrate will appear to be the most in control and cheerful. It's a mask. You know, the way that you have to talk to people when you're grieving, I think you're so unprepared for. It might sound like all kinds of weird things. So I don't necessarily think that reaction can be interpreted in the same way as normal life and normal emotions and normal reactions to a normal event would be interpreted.

23:32So I'd park that. And also the phrase the world will forget her soon enough, I think, can be interpreted in two very different ways. I think it could equally be said by somebody who is acknowledging how fickle the public can be and who hadn't grasped how much the public loved Diana. And I think the king could equally have said that in a very matter of fact. And we know him to be a slightly short tempered, short tempered, but also slightly kind of over thoughtful character sometimes. times, you know, not kind of with it and on the beat. So I can imagine it might be something said in an attempt to show how difficult the situation will be when people no longer remember her.

24:26I mean, he was wrong about that, completely wrong. He was wrong about lots of things when they were married, wasn't he? And nor was she a saint. No, but particularly to do with how much she was absolutely adored. So again, I just think there could be another subtext going on, which allows you to then believe both sides. The things did actually happen, but the interpretation of them might be very different. The thing that, like you and like so many people, I don't know whether we're all better off knowing what we now think we know. Are we? No, I see. That's the problem. I don't think we are. We might think we are because we've got an insatiable desire appear into that family and i absolutely admit that in me absolutely without question but whether it's helped my aided my understanding of any of the individuals i would question we can't judge anybody's coping mechanisms in the face of adversity and some people behave in one way and other people might say well i wouldn't do that well that's up to you you don't need to do that um i oh god i mean it's so i don't think it's unreasonable unreasonable to ask where is the money from the book going to go because he's a wealthy man, Spencer, a very wealthy man.

25:41And this book is going to sell by the truckload in America, presumably, and in other parts of the world. He's going to make a lot of money from this. And wouldn't it be good if that was going to a place other than the Spencer coffers? Well, maybe something that his sister Diana really believed in and cared for in her lifetime. Yeah, that would be a statement. Yeah, or to the security costs of his nephew. Yeah, and of course, we don't know where he's going to put the money. Perhaps he'll never tell us. And it might be given to charity and he might never tell us. We don't know. There was a very good question from Laura Koonsberg, who I thought did an absolutely excellent job during that interview, just about the echoes of history for Harry and Meghan.

26:27And I thought his answer to that was actually, you know, one that we should listen to. Whatever you think the provocation being given by those two is for us to have feelings about them. Personally, I just really, really wish that they'd enjoy their happy life in the sunshine in California with their beautiful house and their, you know, touch wood, healthy, lovely children. I think that's a lot for a life. Many people would be very happy, very, very happy with that. I kind of think, don't lose sight of that, don't lose sight of that. But, you know, I think we should take on board just how it must feel to be on the receiving end of quite so much vitriol all the time.

27:14And he did say, you know, Diana wasn't very good at handling criticism. I'm not sure that her sons are very good at handling criticism. I don't know them, so maybe it's unfair of me to say that. but but but that he he said it's a cancerous thing to have that amount of vitriol from people you don't know in your life and and social media has made that yeah and he's right about that he is right about i mean i to be fair i'm not sure i know anyone who's brilliant at handling criticism no apart from um no it's oh dear it's it's just a i suppose ultimately it's rather sad all this isn't it it's just a bit so sad jane it's so sad because you know terrible things happen all the time they're happening all the time in the world at the moment yeah and i think when something like this gets uh talked about over and over again from a different perspective with a different level of pain displayed different details being revealed it does take away our ability to get into perspective other things that are going on i mean you know you and i've just spent the last 10 minutes on this podcast talking about one family.

28:26It is actually crazy, isn't it? It's crazy. And on our afternoon show, Times Radio 2 to 4, this afternoon we'll devote more time to it and lots of people are talking about it and devoting time to it. There's just an unholy war of shit going on elsewhere. In a way, you're right. This also presents an opportunity to enter a kind of cosy comfort zone and to think, blimey, they're a dysfunctional lot. Thank goodness my own family is not quite as mad as they are. You're right. And there are so many more important issues. Should we talk about them? Yes, please do. Please do let us know what you think, by the way.

28:57And if you're going to read Charles Spencer's book, do let us know. Have I contradicted myself? It's so unusual. Jane and Fee at Times.Radio. Sue, just listening to your talk of faecal water slides and Colin from Accounts, and I thought I'd share a recent message to my daughters. I think you'd enjoy colon from Accounts, I told them. My eldest, who isn't a frequent telewatcher, just replied, yes, I might give that a go. On a side note, has anyone been to Exeter Wetherspoons? The Imperial has an outstanding building, including a ballroom built in 1810 and a huge ornate window that was part of a palm house designed by Brunel.

29:34Pick attached. What a backdrop to your egg and chips. Sending all best wishes, Sue. Sue, thank you. And what a splendid environment that is, the Exeter Wetherspoons. If anybody is down that way and fancies popping in, don't forget, of course, the coffee. You get lots of top-ups. You just have to pay for the one. Yes, I do have family who work for the organisation Wetherspoons, but that's neither here nor there. I know some people are against the whole environment of Wetherspoons, but other people acknowledge it offers very good value. Sue, thank you. And one thing that company does do is it buys up all sorts of buildings and makes them live again, and that is not to be dismissed.

30:14Yeah, and they're often huge, aren't they? Ouch! Because spoons can pack it out in a way that other smaller pubs can't. No. But lots of other pubs are out there, we need to say. Yeah, I tell you what, I think we might save this for tomorrow. We've got some fantastic just lists of supermarkets from different parts of the world. We have, and keep them coming, by the way. Very much so. So this is proper, proper middle-aged porn, isn't it? It really is. Just read about other people's aisles. I was thinking about that yesterday morning when I was liberally spraying my Chatsworth room spray around my property.

30:52Just thinking, God, I mean, people go on about sex, but have they ever actually done this? This is fabulous. Yes. Move on. I'm sure you can find a YouTube channel somewhere. Is there a niche for that? There probably is. Yeah, I would have thought so.

31:11Your heart can tell you a lot about your health. Apple Watch Series 12 measures your heart rate every five seconds with the most advanced heart rate sensing in an Apple Watch so your vitals app now with heart rate variability could tell you when something is off and your readiness score can let you know when to rest and when to push hear the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch Series 12 for general wellness purposes only not intended for clinical use or to detect, diagnose, monitor or treat medical conditions requires iPhone 11 or later losing weight can feel like a roller coaster Full of ups, downs, and being thrown for loops.

31:46Like when someone brings donuts into the office. Or your kids' dino nuggets start giving you that look again. That's why there's Noom. They combine GLP-1s to quiet the food noise with healthy habits that help you keep it quiet, even if you get off the meds. Their program is designed to make weight loss a smooth ride, helping you understand what drives you. So you can build better habits to not just lose weight, but keep it off. Noom. Lose for keeps. Get started at Noom.com. Not all customers will clinically qualify for medications. Individual results may vary. Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough.

32:24It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends.

33:08You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. we've got an anonymous contributor jane have we whose name you just read out by accident but don't worry we won't include that bit oh i'm sorry no but this is a good one it has to be heard i'm afraid i'm a couple of weeks behind with the podcast but i felt i must contribute to the discussion about the division of domestic duties and laundry in particular when my ex-husband and I separated after many decades of marriage.

34:05It was necessary for complex logistical reasons to continue living in the same house, but obviously in separate bedrooms. When I commenced divorce proceedings, I stopped doing his laundry while he managed to wash and even iron his own clothes. When I moved out, eight months later, he'd never washed his sheets or towels. That's just... An eight-month towel. I might still be able to smell that gentleman's sheets if I dry hard enough. I tell you what, he needs your room sprayed rather desperately. Well, I mean, eight months. Eight months. I mean, that must be so, that must stand up by itself. It must absolutely stink.

34:45How is it getting properly dry every day and what kind of germs are on it? There's no adjective. I mean, fetid is a good one, but it's not strong enough for that. Because even some delightful students, I would say actually not my son. He seems to be doing very well with his laundry and good for him. Didn't want to send a man out into the world who didn't understand the washing machine, Jane. On behalf of women everywhere, thank you. Thank you very much. But even for the students who can't quite manage it, a term is only two and a half months now, isn't it? So that would basically be your whole year at university without changing your sheets.

35:24Oh, actually, it is that time of year when people are going off or will already be there at Freshers. What's your top tip for the parent? Gosh, I think just try and imagine how it's going to make your kids feel if they know that you're very worried about them. That would be my tip for keeping calm, you know, in the kind of face of a massive, massive change. And I think it seems to be and you've got, you know, you're much, much further down the line and have experience of this. it almost seems to be the luck of the draw whether you've got a kid who absolutely copes or a kid who doesn't and homesickness is such a weird thing Jane I traveled my entire life I traveled a lot during my childhood because dad lived in a body of three time zones away from us so my sister and I did loads and loads of traveling when we were absolutely tiny we found ourselves in lots of different places often on our own I never ever felt homesick and I went to try and live in Manhattan when I was 32 and I got overwhelmed so at that point by homesickness and and it just struck me and it strikes me now looking back on it that there's almost no rhyme or reason to it so if you have a child who's homesick take it seriously take it seriously homesickness is so weird it affects absolutely everything that you do it's not something that you just feel when you're going to bed at night it affects everything you do and you've really got to kind of tackle it my only top tip through experience of feeling that homesick far away far away from home was to find a routine that had things in it that I liked so I went to the same coffee shop every morning in midtown Manhattan so actually after about two weeks the people behind the coffee counter did say hello to me and I went and sat at the same table and I went swimming in the same swimming pool so I just knew that I had to go and do things that had the comfort of routine in them that's interesting even even then swimming was part of your yes yeah totally totally and and it's actually I've I find swimming what I mean I absolutely love it physically uh but also there's something about changing rooms where you end up chatting to people I mean I'm sure lots of other people have hobbies that are enabling to do them to do that but there's always a comment to be made and a you know a conversation to strike up in a changing room so I feel quite comfortable in that so that's the advice that I would pass on to a homesick I think that's really good I think the idea of developing a new routine creating your new comfortable and something that you like yes You don't have to join that society that you know you're not going to like.

38:12Exactly. If you're already feeling ill at ease, it will be very difficult to go and do something new, do something old, just do something old. But what's your experience? Because you've been there and done it. Well, I think it depends on the individual. And so my two children are very different. I have one self-contained girl who would go off into the world and indeed did and didn't tell me how she was finding it quite tough. and I've got another one who never misses an opportunity to tell me exactly how she's feeling so the second one had a tougher time when she went to uni but that might partly be it was post covid in her case and and she'd really enjoyed lockdown at home because we were very fortunate in that period of our lives and it was it genuinely was rather comfortable and cozy and we had a laugh I mean I appreciate that that so isn't the experience of millions of people the world over so I apologise if that's deeply offensive.

39:04But then she went to uni and she found it really full on and that you've got to be in the mix, you've got to be making friends, which she just really struggled with it, until she didn't struggle and then she had the best two years of her life, the latter two years, so made friends that are still in her life and I think always will be, I hope they are. So it's, oh gosh, it's just very difficult. you've got to allow them perhaps you've even got to let them find it a bit uncomfortable and a bit challenging because it is it was hard for us to go to university wasn't it yes and I although I think um I'd been living on my own for a year before I went to university so actually when I went to university I felt I was going back into something I found it rather lovely and easy you you know, because there was a cafeteria downstairs and, you know, there was a laundry room downstairs and all that kind of stuff.

40:00So I'd done, mine was the wrong way around. So it's almost irrelevant. But I do think, I think for many, many, many students it will pass and it does pass, but I wouldn't not take it seriously. Oh, no, do take it seriously. Yeah, and I think, although it's probably very tempting to say it's a universal experience, you know, it'll get better, you'll be fine by next Wednesday. A, there's always a possibility that they're not. And B, you know, they're feeling something. They're feeling something. And it's real. Yeah. So I would definitely not dismiss it. No, never dismiss it. You do just need one body, don't you?

40:43You need one person who can be someone who maybe won't be in your university life for the whole three or four years, but just someone to see you through the first couple of weeks even. I'm not talking about a necessarily romantic attachment, although that might help, but just somebody. Oh, gosh, Jane. And just somebody to walk into a room with. Exactly, just that person. You know, even if you just walk in with them and then you don't talk to them for the rest of the evening. It could be someone on your corridor, someone from your hometown, someone from the course that you meet at an introductory event of some sort.

41:14um that's you know just just reach out to someone and acknowledge your own suffering do not grind it out on your tod thinking this is how it's meant to be it really isn't yeah um and do seek help because there is there's so much more help out there oh my goodness used to be and i mean the pastoral care on campuses yeah you know that the people who are dealing that out my god they've seen it before so you know they they would have much better advice than than this i do think it's a shame you can't take your pets to university jane don't laugh at me for saying that but you know uh pets just enable conversations to happen they keep people happy and safe and comforted it does depend on the pet doesn't it i couldn't have taken dora she'd have attacked other students you know i'm not sure it really would have helped um what kind of a pet would you would you take i would love to have sent uh both of my kids uh off to university with one of our cats, maybe Brian.

42:12But they make people, you know, decent, lovely animals make people feel happier and they always start conversations and they're a source of enormous comfort. And I think more university halls should have pets. Oh, actually, my daughter's university hall did have a cat. Really? There you go. And I bet, you know, the cat was probably petted within an inch of its life. Absolutely it was. Yeah. I think it might have passed away. Did I tell you that the snake in the street has turned up? Well, you did mention it, but it's definitely worth hearing about again. Where is it gone? Well, the snake disappeared and it's...

42:53So it was reported missing? Well, I don't think it was reported missing on the street WhatsApp group, but a snake was seen in a house three doors down a couple of months ago, at which point the street WhatsApp group fired up with people rather worried about a snake infestation. It doesn't take a lot to fire up your street WhatsApp group. Oh, my goodness. It's on constant alert. There are people just poised at any moment to join in the conversation. The long and the shorter it is, Houdini, the snake, has been living entirely independently for, I think, at least nine months. And it's made its way across several houses.

43:34Nobody really knows how. and turned up in somebody else's flat. It's now been Tupperware'd and taken back and it's doing very well. It had grown a lot in that time. Well, Udini can manage on its own. Yes, it's eaten a lot of mice, a lot of other bits and pieces. Have you ever seen a snake eating a mouse? No, have you? I have, yes. Can you do an impression? I have a friend whose son went through a snake phase and got a pet snake. I think its name was Sid, could be wrong. I don't get the pet thing. And one day I went round with my youngest daughter, actually. We'd been invited round to see Sid having his feed.

44:15And if you have a pet snake, you have to buy frozen dead mice. It's horrible feed, to be honest. Frozen dead mice from a pet shop, I think. They do sell them routinely. It could be wrong there. And so we stood there engrossed as Sid opened wide and the frozen mouse entered his capacious cavity. And then just went down him. You could see it. And very slowly made the journey down with all the muscles doing all the work. And then at what point does the mouse start to change shape because it's being digested? Surprisingly, it takes a while. I mean, other listeners with more recent experience of snakes eating mice will be able to tell us more.

44:58I don't think that there's any other way to feed a pet snake than by getting those frozen dead mice. Okay. I don't think there are any veggie Houdinis out there. No, Houdini's done well because obviously nobody was presenting him. That's what I mean. Yes. It suggests to me that Houdini doesn't need to be a pet. No, I know. But people seem to get quite a lot out of keeping reptiles. I don't get it myself. We had to stop. We had leopard geckos for a while. And actually, after they passed away, I didn't feel like replacing them because we had to feed them live. I had to go to the pet shop and buy live insects and bits and bobs for them.

45:41And I actually it's so hypocritical because I'm not a vegetarian, but I just couldn't I couldn't do it, actually. And also I just got to the point I just thought it's just not interesting enough. I couldn't feel the character and as you know I like to anthropomorphise to within an inch of their lives all of the pets so beautifully displayed around here look at this yep so they didn't really work for me can we just do some funny names and then we probably ought to stop yeah because I'm just looking at the time let's not pretend we don't have nearly 12 o 'clock oh my god okay so look the spirit of Terry Wogan lives on yep he used to do all of these kind of things didn't he and off we go.

46:23Joanne, there is a road in Upton on 7 called Minge Lane. I've been to Upton. In fact, Upton is a very special place for you because it is the location of my first ever live broadcast on the BBC. Is there a plaque? There should be a plaque. I was sent to a Healthy Heart Roadshow and it had parked up this port-a-cabin thing, camper van. And, well, you know, those let's reach the general public with a positive health message roadshow type affairs. Yes, yeah. Healthy Heart Roadshow, it was in Upton. And it would have been in the February of, I can remember the date, the February of 1989, 1990. Anyway, there I was.

47:06So Upton is a very special place indeed. Did you see Minj Lane? No, I didn't see Minj Lane. And I'm not sure it does actually exist. OK. Well, Joanne, we might need some specific evidence. This one comes in from Caroline, who's just over the border in Suffolk, thought that this map extract from Boxted Essex would make you cross your legs and scream. This is Burnt Dick Hill. I think we can only end with... This is my favourite action. It's not even rude. It's just fantastically funny. Megan says, my sister lives on Cavalier Approach in Leeds. Now, let's have more of those. Less of the smart. More of that sort of thing, please.

47:46yes phew we've covered some ground we certainly have boom sprays aristocrats at war homesickness and students homesickness I mean we've done it all Jane you don't get this anywhere else no because nobody else would do it because they've got more sense than us we have got to choose another book for book club so if you could keep your suggestions coming in that would be fantastic we haven't really alighted on a different genre we might not do that this time round we will just go for a book that somebody recommends that sounds absolutely awesome and we also need to get thinking about a new playlist.

48:19I wonder, Jane, if we didn't need a kind of, you know, something along the lines of a higher TOG rating for autumn playlist. You know, kind of songs that you can slightly... You're on the borderline, on the cusp of putting the heating on, is that what you're saying? Yes, that type of thing. Although it's hot again in London this week. Yeah, let's just ignore that and hope it goes away. I saw a woman at the weekend wearing a woolly scarf. I think some people are just refusing to acknowledge. Oh, I'm doing that. I'm literally going at September, so I need to put a jumper on. It's 24 degrees. Absolutely madness, Jane.

48:52Well, you put your heating on last Friday, right? Only for half an hour because I had some nervy middle-aged women in situ. Okay, but they're usually the hot ones. Yeah, my friends, they're all on medication of one sort. Okay, I'm so sorry to hear that. Sorry, I don't mean that. We will think of a suitable TOG rating title, but I think... Shall we do that? Yeah, let's do that. Snuggle Down for September. Snuggle Down, that's it. snuggle down for September. That is the name of the playlist. Right. So ideas welcome. And very much so. You need to get those in quick because Rosie made it very, very clear that she's far too busy to put more than 12 tracks up on Spotify.

49:26And she is because she's spotting those dead celebrities in car parks across the country. Yeah. You know, you know. She's been well and truly outed there. Right. OK. We'll see you tomorrow. It's Jane and Fee at Times.Radio. Goodbye. Bye.

49:56Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.

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