School trip to pets at home (with Michael Owen)

0:00Your heart can tell you a lot about your health. Apple Watch Series 12 measures your heart rate every five seconds with the most advanced heart rate sensing in an Apple Watch. So your vitals app, now with heart rate variability, could tell you when something is off. And your readiness score can let you know when to rest and when to push. Hear the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch Series 12. For general wellness purposes only, not intended for clinical use or to detect, diagnose, monitor or treat medical conditions. If you felt stuck trying to lose weight, you're not alone. Enter Weight Loss by HERS.

0:35It's designed to support you in reaching your goals. And HERS now offers access to an affordable range of FDA-approved GLP-1 medications, including the WeGovi pill and the WeGovi pen. Even better, with a range of affordable GLP-1 options, HERS makes it simple to find an approach that fits your needs and your budget. If eligible, you'll get a treatment plan personalized to you and unlimited dosage changes as needed. It's weight loss designed to work with your life. Ready to reach your goals? Visit 4hers.com slash eligible to get personalized, affordable care that gets you. That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash eligible.

1:124hers.com slash eligible. Weight loss by HERS is not available in all 50 states. Wegovi is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk AS. To get started and learn more, including important safety information, Wegovi clinical study information and restrictions. Visit ForHers.com. Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life.

1:49That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the U.S. offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average.

2:28See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

2:57Is that working? Yeah, I can hear it now. Are we on? We're on. Slick as ever. Welcome to Off Air with Jane and Hannah. And we're sorry we couldn't do a podcast yesterday. Hannah, can you remember why? Because I can't. I was just swamped, Jane. You were swamped. Yeah, to be fair, Hannah and I, we've done quite a lot of work over the last 10 days or so. I know. Which isn't, it's certainly not like me. You're more used to working hard. but no, I'm absolutely dead on my feet here. But we've got reinforcements coming, haven't we? We do. Eve's back. She's back tomorrow. Thank God. But post-holiday she can be a bit wavy.

3:32But she can be a bit all over the place. But you know what I've realised? I just don't have that much interesting to say. I don't have the content. I don't have the breadth that you and V have. And so Eve needs to come with some fresh off the holiday drama for us. She'll have some anecdotes. So she is back tomorrow and Fee is back next Tuesday from memory. I think that's what's happening. Yeah, she's got bank... Have you not got bank holiday Monday? Is that a bank holiday? It's a bank holiday on Monday, yeah. Are you here? No. Oh, so we're both back on Tuesday. You're both back on Tuesday then.

4:05Yeah, that's right. I've got it straight now. No Monday episode again. Sorry, everyone. We are sorry, but bank holidays are very much a thing. I've never understood them really, but there's one. And then there's nothing, nothing at all until Christmas. No. It's just weird, isn't it? You've just got to keep going. I tell you what, this summer in Britain, it has been, certainly in the South, it's just been relentless. It has. It's got so hot, everybody. It really has. But it's kind of, you know, first thing in the morning now, it's properly, it's quite nippy, isn't it? It's autumnal. It's lovely, in my opinion.

4:36I really like that feeling. Growing up in Hartlepool, this is what you're used to. Sorry. Huddersfield. Whatever. Whatever. but anyway um i um do you know i did some um i did some culture at the weekend uh and i went to an art exhibition you were talking about material and of course here i am coming with some material you didn't like it there no well i just want to say i want to open it up to people far more erudite and informed than me it was the anish kapoor exhibition at the hayward gallery uh which is part of the south bank and actually the reason that a whole area of london is on my mind is that it's the novel by Kate Atkinson that I'm interviewing her about on Thursday and you can hear Kate on Thursday's edition of the podcast is set around the Festival of Britain which was at the South Bank that's when they built all that stuff at the South Bank so this is a long-winded way of saying if you've seen the Anish Kapoor exhibition let me know what you think because I I suppose I haven't forgotten it but did I show you some of the images?

5:39No. I mean I'm a very lame indeed verging on really poor photographer. My phone isn't one of the newer ones. So you do, I took a couple of ham-fisted images of what you see in this exhibition and it doesn't even come close to doing it justice. But basically everything that's, it's a series of sculptures, but some of them, the big one, it's just like a huge red pumpkin. I can't describe it any other, But it's enormous, Hannah. It takes up the whole of a room and barely fits into this brutalist concrete space. It's just extraordinary. But I'm still thinking about it, so maybe I enjoyed it more than I thought.

6:23What's wrong with pumpkins? It's getting you in the autumnal vibe. Yeah, but it wasn't... I don't think it was meant to be a pumpkin. There's also a series of... What would you call them? I don't know. I'm groping for the right word. I'm going to say installations, which take advantage of this type of the colour black called Vanta Black. Do you know about that? Which is really black, so black, that it looks like you, the viewer, can escape into it. Really? So everything looks like it could be a tunnel that you could just dive into. No, I don't like the sound of that. You don't like the sound of that.

7:00OK, so here I am, you see, I'm contradicting myself. Did it make more of an impression than I thought it had made at the time? It's clearly grown on you. Maybe it has. I really would love to hear from other people who've seen it and who can explain it to me and perhaps just tell me what I might have been missing here. Do you know, also, the people I'd love to hear from, I've never, ever heard what it's like to work in one of those art galleries as one of the people that just sits in the gallery. You know the ones I mean? They work for the gallery. They've got the polo shirt on or whatever. They're wearing a lanyard.

7:33They've got a walkie-talkie. But they just sit to make sure that nobody touches the exhibits what is that job like i imagine that they meditate a lot on life well or do they just look at their phones there were a few of them oh yeah well i know but it shouldn't be allowed well i think it's well no because they're in there a long time i mean i what that would be another of my questions how long are you in there for it can't be a whole seven hours of an eight hour shift surely maybe you you do a couple of hours and then you swap out i don't know if you've ever done that job at whatever stage in your life i'd love to hear from you yeah uh well it's making me think of something that's not related at all well what is it i was just thinking have you heard this podcast that's absolutely fine that kind of content is absolutely fine go on when i worked at pets at home it was during covid and i had to stand on the door and say wait one second to see the bunnies and let the other people out there now you can go in i was like a bouncer of pets at home and i was just thinking it was very, very boring.

8:36I just wanted to be on my phone. Hannah, you see, that's not boring. That is content. I didn't know you'd worked as a bouncer at Pets at Home. Yeah. Oh, God, all sorts. Rollerblading rinks, golf clubs. I've been everywhere, Jane. But, yeah, Pets at Home was particularly interesting. OK. I haven't been to a Pets at Home since I went on a primary school trip. To Pets at Home? Well, this is the funny thing. We'd actually gone somewhere else. But on the way back on the bus, and obviously a lot of children were tired and people were being sick and all the rest of it. It's classic. I went as a parent.

9:06I wasn't a member of the primary school at the time. A parent carer. You know, there always has to be a couple of mums or dads or grannies on these school trips, so I'd volunteer for that one. And I think, I can't remember which of my children it was, but on the way back, the reception teacher and her assistant, they stopped the bus for pets at home. Oh, my goodness. Just to G everyone up? Well, just to slightly, yeah, just extend the day a little bit. And the class did have a gerbil, so it kind of made sense that we'd pop off to pets at home or was it a hamster i can't remember now and we just had a we had a rummage around pets at home and a quick dart about just so some of the kids could see all the animals and stuff and when you said the bunnies you were there to stop too many people crowding in yeah so it was yeah it was just to keep well everyone wanted pets didn't they so actually we're very in demand oh right but obviously there was the social distancing so it was absolute carnage in there you would have caught covid but then we had to put in the measures to stop people going in but yeah i've sold a few rats in my time how much was a rat back then any idea like 20 quid 20 quid just to room wow that's a lot for a rat uh just a reminder that gabby roslin uh who is the presenter of the joy of pets on itv you can find that episode uh from last week i think she was a very welcome guest tuesday was it is it i think it was tuesday Yeah, she talked about rats.

10:30They're not as unpopular as you might think. No, the rats weren't actually that bad. Like, when I was selling the rats, the rats would just want to climb up and sit on your shoulder because they want to dominate. And they don't want to dominate through force, they just want their head to be higher than yours, so they try and get to the highest point. The Syrian hamsters, on the other hand, God, they were awful. Why? What was there? So, yeah, they were just vicious. Modus operandi. selling them and I'd have one in my hand going oh do you want this hamster and then they'd bite me poo and wee on me so one time I was trying to sell a hamster and I had a pool of blood wee and poo on my hand that's not appealing Jane this is Hannah who doesn't think she's got any content to bring to the podcast I mean she's just proved that that's just not not true Hannah thank you we'll have more of your reminiscences when you're next back on the pod but honestly don't You know, don't do yourself down.

11:23You've absolutely got the kind of content we're looking for. Michael Owen, the former England, Liverpool, Newcastle United and Manchester United footballer is our guest today. He and his family have made one of those family reality shows. I mean, it's always a bit dangerous to do this. I just, I do think the idea of subjecting your family to cameras. I mean, families have done it. The royal family has done it notably, blue but it can often end in trouble i've seen a bit of this i think i've seen about two and a half episodes of meet the owens and they've got a lovely house because they train racehorses and you can imagine they live in a bucolic idyll in cheshire uh there are four kids mom and dad including michael and what is actually quite charming about these programs is that michael does allow himself to be the butt of just about every joke so um i kind of hand it to him for that.

12:17But anyway, during the podcast today, Michael talks a little bit about his football career, about his racehorses, about his children, and in particular about his son, James, who was diagnosed at just at the age of eight, very young, with something I'd never heard of called Stargardt disease, which is a genetic eye disorder. It actually causes progressive central vision loss. and James is now clinically blind. And it's actually quite unusual to hear quite a sort of macho man just talking about something that has obviously been a huge issue for his family. And he's very, very close to James, who seems like an absolutely lovely lad.

12:57But you'll hear him in the conversation just talking about, actually, in many ways, what a privilege it is to have a particular closeness with a son who, well, needs his parents, perhaps more than most young men at his age. So that's interesting. If you think, well, why do I want to hear Michael Owen? I do think that it's worth having a listen just because you hear a different side to a professional sportsman. He's still very competitive, though. I mean, he's really competitive about his racehorses. You can't be in that game unless you're competitive. I did actually go to the football last night, Hannah.

13:32Yes. Where? Did I know where that was? Which that was? I don't know. I'm not into my football team. No, I know you're not. Well, I've got high hopes. No, I went to the Fulham-Chelsea game because I decided... I think you did tell me that. Yeah, thanks. It's actually quite interesting that only about 20 % of what I say to my colleagues goes in. Anyway, no, it was a great entertaining game. Who won? Well, Chelsea did. He did predict that, Michael, though, didn't he? Yes, he did. The interview was actually conducted yesterday. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, he did. I'm not down in any way being downbeat about Michael's prediction qualities, but I could have predicted that Chelsea would win as well.

14:10But it was close. All right, Mystic guy. Coming for Mystic Mick. No, it was closer than I might have thought. A very entertaining game it was as well. I did watch the Newcastle-Liverpool one. Yes. Yeah, Newcastle, they had a good... They had a good old go. And Liverpool actually were very lucky on Sunday. Do you know if Liverpool had scored one more goal? Yes, well, they would have won, yeah. They would have won. And my boyfriend would have won three grand. So I was very upset with your team that day, Jean. Three grand? Yeah. Well, we don't really encourage betting, although we're about to hear from a racehorse trainer.

14:46That's a bit rich. Three grand though, but he didn't win. But he didn't, no. But he'd gotten all the little things right. The one thing he needed was another goal, but I guess that's quite a big thing actually, isn't it? It is quite a significant thing, Hannah, and you've just illustrated there why gambling... Why gambling works. Well, it's lucrative for the betting companies. Because I thought we were close, but now I actually think about it, we needed to win and we didn't so you weren't that close no they've won and you and your boyfriend happened but what a time you'd have had with three grand um we've had a lot of interesting emails about careers and just how tough it is at the moment if you're coming out of education and we did have an email last week from a listener who's i think it was his son actually forgive me if i got that wrong uh had a law degree uh this email is anonymous i'm at present recruiting for an entry level position paying just above the minimum wage.

15:39I've had over 130 applications. Some of the applicants have got degrees, higher degrees or a wealth of experience. We do not make any decisions using AI. Honestly, we're not allowed to. Quite honestly, just sifting over 130 plus applicants, and that has to be done by three of us, does take an enormous amount of time. A colleague recruiting for a slightly higher level role got over 200 applications. And that's just an illustration of what things are like out there. I don't know which part of the country this is, but I absolutely take note of the sheer numbers of people desperate to get on the job ladder.

16:18As to your correspondent's son, I would check that he really knows the requirements of each employer that he's applying to. Some big employers even produce YouTube videos. people who haven't done their research on applying to my organisation are relying on a good CV. To be honest I barely look at it but they don't produce a personal statement and that is the basis of our selection. Right well that couldn't be clearer. The CV is one thing yet you need one but always always if you can put more effort into the personal statement. If there was a shortage of applicants you might be given a chance to shine at interview, but as it is, we just have to whittle down to a manageable shortlist.

16:59My ideal would be about five. And I do think it's worth getting a job, frankly, any job. You'll develop all kinds of transferable skills. Also, law does give great transferable skills, but is only directly relevant to solicitors and barristers who need a further degree and are highly competitive fields to get into. I actually have a degree in science and got at least one job just because of a specific speciality of the degree I did and where I did it also my first so-called proper job was below degree level and I only got it because I dropped in on someone to ask about another advertised role and I think that's really significant thank you so much Anonymous for that sometimes your luck comes to you in a way and at a time you just might not have expected it is crazy isn't it how just one little decision it's like what you were saying about your postbox.

17:52Yeah. One little decision one day and getting it all specific is what... There's so many people going for these jobs. It's actually scary. It really is scary. I mean, if it's worth anything, I eventually did get into the BBC. I think I'd applied, I don't know, six, seven times. And I only got in because somebody else dropped out. You know, I didn't get in and I remember getting the rejection letter and just, do you know what, Hannah? I wept in the bath. Oh. I know. Well, at least you were already, like, in water. That's true. God, I mean, you can always find the bright side. Actually, Michael Owen says he always finds the bright side.

18:32We've got another person here who's got a postbox that changed her life. Like you, a postbox changed my life, says Rachel. In 1977, on a cold January evening, I stood at a postbox on Birmingham University campus to post an application to work at an American summer camp. I clearly remember thinking, this, this, Rachel, could be the start of the rest of your life. Wow. And it was. Well, it was. I got the job for three amazing summers, working and travelling around the US, went on to work for 18 years for the organisation which administered the exchange. As a result, I lived and worked in New York, burned the candle at both ends and the middle, travelled to all but a handful of states and made lifelong friends I have never forgotten that postbox because it really did change my life it was still there when I went to the campus a decade ago and I'm very much hoping it will be there when I visit again in September oh well send us a picture of the postbox that changed your life that would be lovely she also says please tell Rosie my degree was in American Studies and it's never held me back well it hasn't held Rosie back either has it?

19:43No. It is quite a random degree though, isn't it? Is it? That's why I think sometimes there's so much pressure as you come out of A-levels on that day to choose the right degree. I think you just choose something you're interested in. Oh God. Listen, it's such a bonus if you're interested. Yeah. I mean, in GCSEs I wouldn't have thought of American Studies. No. But then you never know where you'll... You could end up as a lawyer. You could. This person hasn't, I don't think. No. You could though. But yeah, you could. Rachel is an avid podcast listener, she says here, and she volunteers at the Cheltenham Literature Festival, so we'll give you a wave from the back of the Times due in October.

20:21Well, we're looking forward to that. Have you been to Cheltenham? No, I was meant to go this year. Oh, you're not coming? No. Oh dear, well, she's been bit worse. Listen, we can't have everybody there. I am on annual leave, so that's why. But I'll be there next year, Jane. Pathetic sob story. You've booked a holiday, so of course you're not going. Fee and I are going to be there October the 15th I think is when we're doing it and our guest is are we allowed to say yes we are because it's up I've seen it Annika Rice um that's going to be funny because Annika is she's just funny she's extremely entertaining and if you can get down there that would be lovely now Hannah and I were riffing last week on the subject of what care home entertainment is likely to be like in 60 or 70 years time when let's be honest Hannah's generation might be occupying these establishments.

21:09This is really close to my heart, says Orla, for no other reason than I thought it was unusual to think about this stuff. I should have realised it wasn't that weird at all for listeners to off-air. Nothing's too weird for us, nothing. I am someone who, since my early 30s, has loved a trip down to Eastbourne, which is surely the mothership of care homes. It is impossible to stroll through the streets around the seafront without hearing tea-dance-style music, and I've always loved watching the silhouettes of the elderly couples swaying together in the windows of various hotels. That's lovely. Actually, that is lovely.

21:45It did, however, make me and my husband wonder what we will hopefully be forced to listen to in our dotage. We decided it could quite possibly be Smack My Bitch Up by The Prodigy. This is mainly because we used to live opposite Keith Flint, rest in peace, but also because we can't help but wonder whether that will still count as a banger when we're seriously old. Well, Ola, thank you. I don't... I've wondered this too. Some of the more, shall we say, challenging music of some people's youth, it's not going to be appropriate for a more genteel care home set. Well, no-one's going to want to listen to the...

22:23Some will. My auntie's karaoke song is Sean Paul. Which one? And she's a grandma. Right. I don't even know it that well. It's the one that's like, all these women want to get me on. She loves it. Does she? All right. That's all right. I don't know. Do you have her permission to talk about her in that way? No. Well, we'll keep it in. Apologies, I've only emailed twice. Both times when on my way home from work drinks. All the work drinks can be very tricky, can't they? We need some work drinks. Oh, yes, we do, actually. We probably could. Should we organise something? Yeah, let's organise something now.

23:04It'll be April before we can get the night sorted because everybody's on it. That's the night. I've got my mobile hairdresser. I can't do that night because I'm meeting in. No, let's see if we can give it a whirl. We'll try and organise something. This is from Karen. Hello, ladies. I don't know who to address the email to because of the holiday situation. Tell me about it. Honestly, we don't know whether on foot or horseback, Hannah and I, but, yeah, next week, things are a bit more organised. um re your discussion about what will care homes be like in the future well i've got quite a bit of experience having three parents and in-laws in their mid-90s and my mom is exceptionally frail to boot um well i know that's that's a load you're bearing there karen i hope things are all right uh we were sitting around at work last week and we got talking about the children's programs of the 60s i like pinky and perky uh the singing pigs uh then we had you won't remember any of this don't worry about it then we had the clangers andy pandy bill and ben the flowerpot men the herb garden was a favorite as we could all remember the songs each character had such as constable nap week parsley the lion and dill the dog this then led us led us on to singing the old adverts from the 70s such as a finger of fudge everyone's a fruit nutcase double diamond works wonders i'd like to teach the world to sing the goodness that is milky bar bird's eye potato waffles the Hands That Do Dishes, that was fairy.

24:26Crumbliest, flakiest chocolate, that was flaked. Shake and vac, yeah. Nuts, ooh, hazelnuts, yeah. Cadbury, take them and they cover them in chocolate. Cornetto, and the list goes on. The one you've missed out there that I absolutely could still sing is Toblerone. Do you know that one? No, but I'm waiting. They take triangular chocolate from triangular trees and make triangular honey from triangular bees. that's harrowing um yeah and then it oh i've forgotten the rest of it anyway it goes on in that vein and i'm pretty sure it's advertising toblerone on a much much more serious note oh actually there's a couple of serious ones here worth mentioning um melanie in chichester regular correspondent wants to know if anybody else can beat her record i recall a discussion on the pros and cons of wearing fitness trackers to inform about exercise and sleep patterns.

25:24I wonder whether anybody else in the hive could match my recent stats. Although I have continued wearing the tracker, I haven't really been going anywhere. A fact unfortunately reinforced by my daily consumption of calories used while recovering from a leg injury. Okay, well that's your excuse. I hope your recovery continues. To my utter chagrin, some days I appear to have only reached the dizzy heights of four calories burned. That can't be right. I think there's something wrong there because i think even just breathing you burn calories i don't blame yourself melanie yeah don't be hard i'm very dubious about this calories burn thing i really am i just don't get it at all and i'm not sure it's remotely accurate so just don't worry about it i'm not sure i believe in calories full stop i'm not sure really what they are either uh sue from sidmouth i've been a shopper all my life i love the episode with mary portis encouraged by my dad who was a fashion buyer and then manager of a department store many years ago and also encouraged by my mum who loved clothes and would hide new issues of vogue so she could read the pristine copies before my sister or I got hold of them.

26:31Like Jane I enjoy that lift you get from just getting something new and enjoying wearing it. I once discussed this with a psychologist. We were chatting about retail therapy and whether it's okay. Perhaps I was worried it was a sign of weakness. Her questions to me were Do you wear your clothes? Can you afford them? If yes to both, what's the problem? So that's my approach. OK, I get that. And a story of my dad, the fashion buyer store manager from when I was a teenager back in the 70s. We went shopping to a well-known grand department store in Knightsbridge and the two assistants who were chatting to each other and ignoring us.

27:13That didn't please him. He'd have had words to say in the store he managed if he'd seen anything like that. As the staff continued to ignore us, he nipped round the counter and rang up£100 on the till. That was a lot of money in those days, as they say. So at the end of the day, they'd have had a big imbalance to work out when cashing up. It was a little bit of revenge. That's commitment to the revenge as well. I like that. Yeah, I mean, let's just say he shouldn't have done that, but you know that, Sue Insidmouth. But it was just his way of making a point. I do get that as well. I think when lots of those jobs are hard and long and you're dealing with people all day and people might not always be polite to you, I think especially when you've had experience doing that job, when you then see someone being rude for no reason, it's frustrating because it's like we're all just wanting to get through the day, aren't we?

28:05We are. And actually, just a quick shout-out while I'm on this subject thinking about customer service, I do think whenever I go to Heathrow Airport, the Pret at Terminal 5 is normally where I go. well because you know there's no food on surprise there's no food on the plains these days it's shocking and i used to get full roast well in my dreams give us a chicken i'll be um and uh yeah it wasn't really um but i always used to look forward to it you know small but i'm a small person there's portions of small it suited me i was just a little bit of novelty and something a bit unusual now you don't get nothing no uh so the sandwiches are terrible as well i don't know they like make the sandwiches purposefully bad what on the planes yeah well i've never even tried that because i go to the pret and get myself a baguette so you mix it up when you fly india no tuna tuna flatbread i don't get the tuna flatbread when i'm flying i get a baguette okay so why is that well because i feel anything could happen and i might need a bit more nourishment than i get anyway what i was actually going to say was that the i don't know how they do it but the staff there they are so busy yeah the queues are enormous and they're efficient and they're friendly so if you know anyone who works there or you work there yourself i've seen you and you're very good yeah what you do and you stay calm and god alone knows how you do it because not every customer is very nice i mean that's the other thing exactly you know some of the customers are just miserable sods and they have no right to behave in the way they do so shout out for them i really um have acted on this i don't act on every single email we get but nicola in dublin says i was listening to your interview with jacqueline uh from the charity working in Afghanistan.

29:41That is great timing as I'm also in the middle of reading one of the best books I've read all year. It's by Patmina Sabit and it's called Good People. It's a novel about an Afghani family who've left to live in America and the tragedy that ensues. I found it unputdownable. I'm getting all my chores out of the way this morning so I can set aside the rest of the day to finish it. It's a high recommend from me. I think you'd love it too. Well on that, the strength of that. I've ordered it. I'm going to read it. And we'll talk about it, Nicola. Thank you very much for that recommendation. I know we talk, Fia and I both love reading and we talk a lot about books we've read.

30:17But we're always, always happy to hear from other people. And honestly, tell us what you've enjoyed, because it really helps guide us to some good stuff.

30:30Your heart can tell you a lot about your health. Apple Watch Series 12 measures your heart rate every five seconds with the most advanced heart rate sensing in an apple watch so your vitals app now with heart rate variability could tell you when something is off and your readiness score can let you know when to rest and when to push hear the story in every heartbeat with apple watch series 12 for general wellness purposes only not intended for clinical use or to detect diagnose monitor or treat medical conditions requires iphone 11 or later because you didn't just say how can i provide these investments you'd be how do i holistically provide everything how do i bring in the legal, the accounting, all this, and do it at a price point and no one else is doing it.

31:08Learn more about how we approach wealth management at creativeplanning.com slash integrated. If you felt stuck trying to lose weight, you're not alone. Enter Weight Loss by HERS. It's designed to support you in reaching your goals. And HERS now offers access to an affordable range of FDA approved GLP-1 medications, including the WeGovi pill and the WeGovi pen. Even better, with a range of affordable GLP-1 options, HERS makes it simple to find an approach that fits your needs. and your budget. If eligible, you'll get a treatment plan personalized to you and unlimited dosage changes as needed. It's weight loss designed to work with your life.

31:43Ready to reach your goals? Visit ForHers.com slash eligible to get personalized, affordable care that gets you. That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash eligible. ForHers.com slash eligible. Weight loss by HERS is not available in all 50 states. Wegovi is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk AS. To get started and learn more, including important safety information, Wigovi clinical study information and restrictions, visit ForHers.com. Michael Owen is our guest this afternoon. He was the boy wonder footballer who played for Liverpool, for Newcastle, Manchester United, Real Madrid and England, of course.

32:23At the 1998 World Cup, he scored an unforgettable solo goal against Argentina and he was just 18. His career was plagued by injuries and he retired at the age of 33, but he hasn't lost his competitive edge and he now trains racehorses at his manor house stables in Cheshire. If you're under 25 and don't really have much interest in football, you might not know much about Michael, but you probably will know his eldest child, Gemma, a TV presenter and a recent Love Island contestant. contestant. Gemma did acknowledge on that programme that her dad's reputation is frankly that he's a little bit dull.

33:02Gemma's star quality, though, is one of the reasons the family has landed a reality TV series. It's called Meet the Owens and it starts on Amazon Prime this Friday. Michael is working not just as a racehorse trainer, but as a football pundit too. And he was at the Newcastle Liverpool game on Sunday. Well, it started obviously on a positive, a sad note with Kevin Keegan and the events there before the game. Newcastle did an amazing tribute, tasteful tribute, and of course both teams. With Kevin being such a superstar at both teams, both sets of supporters created an amazing atmosphere. And I think almost the result was fitting.

33:46Kevin probably would have wanted an entertaining game he probably would have wanted a draw and that's what happened in terms of the game itself I think it was probably disappointing for Liverpool although they will be relieved to get a point in the end they didn't play particularly well they'll want to improve a lot I think there'll be a few sign-ins to be honest between now and the transfer window for Liverpool the team still needs a little bit more surgery on it from Newcastle's point of view I think they'll be thrilled you know lots of downbeat fans maybe and feeling around the club with a lot of their players being sold off and their manager having left but it's a new beginning and I think they played I think they played well and there's a lot of positives to take Yeah I did read an article over the weekend about how there was no Scouser in the Liverpool side and do you know what I happen to be from Liverpool it did occur to me that that was actually I hadn't thought about it but then when I read it I thought actually this it doesn't feel right is that a problem well i think it's becoming more and more um prominent really uh prevalent um in teams you know with with the foreign influence that we've had over over years now in the premier league you know there would always be three four five local lads playing in in virtually every team in the premier league um you know 20 years ago but but now it's that is, well, it's been happening for a long time now.

35:13But when you think back to the Robbie Fowler days and then my generation with the Carragers and the Stephen Gerrards and you fast forward to the McManhams and then fast forward to Trent Alexander-Arnold in recent times. Yeah, I suppose it's sad in a way, but it's just the way, it's not crept up on us, put it that way. This has been happening for a long time. Anyway, you're now Michael Owen reality TV star. Was this a world that you knew very much about? Obviously, your daughter Gemma. I have to break it to you, Michael. To my younger colleagues, they didn't know you, but they do know Gemma. Absolutely.

35:52To be honest, I was in the I know Michael camp. I need to be clear about that. But it is a weird world, this, isn't it? The reality TV world. Well, we've absolutely loved the process. I think right at the outset, you know, my world now is, or a large part of my world is running my business, which is a horse racing business. And I wanted to show that off, I suppose. Not many people know about it and what I've done since football. And it's been 23 years in the making, my stables. And we're having success all over the world now. And I wanted to show it off a little bit, show people what I do and things like that.

36:28But as soon as the cameras came to start filming, we got really friendly with them and the crew were just great people. And the more and more you get relaxed around people, the more and more you can be yourself. Well, too relaxed maybe. Sometimes, and I'm sure you will say that when you see the documentary. But yeah, and it basically ended up, we wanted to just show everything from that point of view, the family, the family dynamic, what we do, Gemma's story as you've just touched on um what I do etc so uh it's been the most fun honestly I know everybody will probably say it but we've been filming for just over a year and it has been a right laugh and uh you do you forget the cameras are there eventually and we've uh we've captured some great content and I you know I've seen the the documentary obviously and uh really proud of of uh of how it's all come together what do people think of Michael Owen if they don't know Michael how are you thought of boring sensible straight um etc and i think also i mean my kids always say to me dad everyone thinks you're boring and i'm like i know i know all my old teammates they all laugh at me whenever they see me it's like oh you're still conning the public are you i'm like no i just i don't know why everybody thinks obviously that the image i give or how serious I am on the telly or whatever it is, I don't know.

37:54I know where it's sort of stemmed from, and that's, you know, World Cup 98, when you've got two sides of the story, you've got two young, almost, yeah, could-be darlings of the media, one gets sent off and one gets turned into a devil for one minute, and then I get, I'm the one that scores a goal and smiley and I'm whiter than white. And that stuck, and my agent made it stick, and he wanted to cash in on, you know, put me in front of all the nice white clean you know um i mean the other fella didn't do badly of course absolutely but uh but that was my image almost set in stone then so from then on everybody thought i was whiter than white and it's just stuck so which is fine i've got no problem but i think when people watch this um and the few people the handful of people that have watched it so far and been given a sneak preview the first thing they say is oh my word this is going to be people just won't see this side of you.

38:50No. Or haven't seen this side of you. I've seen quite a few of the episodes. And do you know what does come across really well, and I'm not just saying this because you're in front of me, you are a close family, you do wind each other up. And as you say, that is a sign of a good family, a properly tight, loyal bunch of people. And I do admire the way you let your kids absolutely mercilessly take the, extract the urine from you at every available opportunity. I mean, talk about bringing you down to earth. Oh, awful, isn't it? Awful. It's just... It is, and that's just the dynamic, and do you know what?

39:24I was worried, not worried, but I was a little bit pessimistic in terms of how people will view it, and if they don't get it, if they don't get our humour, because some people will hear us bickering and swearing at each other or whatever and think, oh, they're not getting on, but actually that is us getting on at its peak, you know? We're constantly laughing at each other and making fun of each other, And I think the way I've wanted to father them is really set the rules straight early on, give them a good foundation of being polite, of being kind, of looking after each other, of creating that family feel.

40:00But then once they start getting to a certain age, they're young adults now. Well, they're adults, some of them. You know, my kids are 23, 20, 18 and 16. I've done my job in many ways. And now I like them to be their own people. In fact, I've liked them to be their own people for about the last five years. and now their true characters come out and they can take the mick out of me and all the rest of it. And I love that. And I love being centre of attention anyway. Do you? Not many people would think that. But once you watch this documentary, you'll think, oh, my word. Well, you've got three very accomplished daughters and a brilliant son as well.

40:32Very kind. Genuinely, everybody seems like they're lovely. And your wife, Louise, is someone you've known since primary school. Is that right? Yeah, well, infants. We were born, we're only two months, I'm two months older than Louise. We were born, I think we live nine. It matters, doesn't it? It does. I think we lived nine, ten doors away from each other throughout our whole childhood. Okay. Went to the same infant, same junior, same high school, same everything. So we've been sort of together forever in many ways. Yeah, she does... Despairs. Well, no, we say she knows you, doesn't she? That's a polite way of saying, yeah, she despairs.

41:08Well, okay, you can say that. But the game you're in now, it's flat racing, isn't it? Yes. That you do at your stables. and it's in the Cheshire, isn't it? That's right. Yeah. This is a tough old business, isn't it? And Louise makes it very clear in the documentary that you're not playing at this, you've got to make money. Yeah, or not lose money. Yeah, okay, yeah. Yeah, it is. I've got a character that, sadly, I can't sit still. Sadly, I like risk and, you know, I've put virtually everything into this game, into this business, and I absolutely love what I've built. But the bigger it gets, the more risk you have to take.

41:48And it's always flying on the edge of our pants, really. And yeah, Louise has sort of turned a blind eye for many years. But, you know, as you'll see in the documentary, she loves it as well. But I think she wishes that I wasn't so risky with it. But I don't think there's any other way in this industry. You know, you can get swallowed up easily if you don't keep pushing forward. It's like in football. If you don't keep spending the money, keep getting the best players, then you will soon get relegated and then you're in turmoil. And I think you've got to speculate to accumulate. And I think it's the survival of the fittest and the bravest in many ways.

42:24Are you just someone who wants a high-octane existence? I mean, football at the very top is obviously exactly that. And you've replaced that with this. Yeah, a high-stakes game. It gets me out of bed every day thinking that you're only one season away from disaster, really. and the stakes are high and we're dealing with people and you know and their livelihoods and that responsibility gives me a real thrill as well I guess you know employing 50 odd people and the care and attention we've got to give to 135 horses is a huge pressure and then after all that you want the business to succeed as well and grow it and become one of the best around at it and I just can't take part.

43:11I wish I could and just slowly just meander through life but it's just not me. I want it to be the best and I wanted that as a footballer and now this business I want us to be the best and we're growing gradually. We're not there yet. Can I ask, I mean for those of us who don't know a lot about racing, how good are you? Well I always equate it to football because that's what I know and I would say we're sort of a Brighton. We've come through the ranks, We were nothing 20 years ago, but we've come through the ranks. We're now in the big league. Actually, as of this morning, we're 16th in the league out of however many trainers.

43:46There are 400 in the country. Okay, so you're good. So we're right in the thick of it now, yeah. But there's still 15 people. And I can tell. 15 people ahead of us, though. Okay, well, that's why. That's a lot of people. Do you check that league table? Every day. Every single day? Every day, yeah. Right. Yeah, see how far we're behind. and in that league table it goes on prize money one that's the the metric that they use in terms of you know the the league table let's say but there's so many other things involved in it you know the the ages of the horses you know the sex of the horses how many your percentages because some obviously it's an unfair game if somebody's training 300 horses and we're training 135 well well it's going to be hard to beat them so it is unfair um from that point of view so you can look at different metrics as well to see how successful you are and you're becoming.

44:36So there's lots of different things. It's not just a league table of prize money. It gives you a whole host of different metrics to look at. And this is a business that you hope your son will take over at some point? Maybe, but as you'll see in the documentary, James has got a severe eye condition. He's clinically blind, but how he gets through life and how he works things out is quite incredible and I think it'll be hopefully quite endearing to the viewer. He loves the business side of things but of course his eyes prevent him from doing an awful lot of things so he wouldn't have such a much knowledge about the horse itself and watching the exercising and anything else like that but he loves the business and he loves the people and the owners and he's really sociable and without seeing people if i say oh john's coming today sarah's coming tomorrow he will be able to say the name of the horse the job that they do their you know their kids names that the horses pad you know he he knows an awful lot without being able to to see obviously very well so he loves the business um i think the girls like the the practical side of it the horses and the care for the horses and they can go and race and whereas he likes the to crunch the numbers and always telling me, Dad, why are you buying four bales of hay in that?

45:55Why don't you use three and you'd make an extra hundred grand a year type of thing? He's always thinking business, business, business. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you make yourself very vulnerable in the documentary talking about James. And Louise, obviously, as well, feels, well, as any parent would. And you express a kind of almost a guilt that things have worked out for him in a way that you wouldn't have chosen. but no one ever knows what a child is going to be like or what they might have to face. No, absolutely. I think the initial thing when you first, when he was first diagnosed as having Stargardt's disease, when he was only, what, eight, nine years of age, the first natural feeling, for me anyway, was guilt.

46:38Obviously, the older he gets and the older we get, the more you can understand and you get used to it and you, you know. But yeah, I'm one of those people that just turn every negative into a positive. I've always had that about me, whether that is a negative or a positive, I don't know. I think it's a positive. But how close we are as a family, how close I am to him, lots of things that he does, I'm by his side, whether we go to a restaurant, I just automatically sit by him. I know he can't read a menu, and I know he can't cut his dinner properly in certain scenarios. So just... But I don't...

47:20Like watching a horse race, he comes racing, I'll just go and find him and do a commentary in his ear throughout the race, telling him where our horse is and how it's going and whether the whips have been drawn and is it going to win. And how... He'll never be able to drive. How much of a privilege is that for his father to sit by him and spend so much quality time when he wants to go to see his mates or he wants it he needs me and that's a lovely thing because you lose your kids so so as much as it's obviously a negative i find all these positives uh in it and uh of course i hope that there's a cure i think there will be a cure i want it tomorrow instead of in five ten years is that is that a real possibility i think so yeah we can do anything nowadays literally anything there is a cure out there we can grow anything stem cells and all these kinds um obviously there's there's uh legalities behind uh what you can and can't do but i'm pretty certain that we could do something right now um but it might take a little bit of time for legislation and everything else like that but no he he probably needs a a new retina um and you know you can have a an implant or whatever you know there's there's so many things that could happen but we'll see what the future holds but yeah at the moment it's uh it's a struggle i guess but he you would never know if he was here you would never ever know it he's the smiley happiest he laughs at himself that hopefully comes across he doesn't take himself seriously at all and he's just a son that you can that i'm like massively proud of yeah well you should be i mean it's a household of, not dominating figures, but formidable.

49:07Let's say formidable. I mean, your football career was, you got off to such an early start. Everyone remember the World Cup in 98, the impact you had there. You were so young. Were you too young to really understand the weight of what you'd achieved? Or is that the only way to be? I mean, I don't know, just to enjoy it as a teenager and not give it too much thought about what you're going through. Yeah, listen, I don't think you have a choice in many ways. You know, it's such a competitive world. It's such a competitive industry. You can't say, oh, I'm not going to try so hard. I'm going to slow down and hope to peak at the right time.

49:45What is the right time? I mean, I had my time, whether that was good or bad for the future. I mean, certainly injuries were bad. You were unlucky with injuries, weren't you? Yeah, absolutely. But it's in my genes. You know, my dad was a professional footballer. he was he was suffered a lot from muscle injuries and i don't think you can be it's hard to be so fast and not have you know problems as well my brothers and my sisters were all very very fast and they had muscle injuries as well but i do think what you're touching on there being young and doing what i did early i see it as a huge a huge advantage you're fearless you know when you're when everything comes so easy and you're 17, 18 and you've never had a scar, you've never had a disappointment, you just keep achieving, you can take me anywhere.

50:33Well, you did. The country took me to the World Cup, the highest thing that you can ever do. And I thought, just give me the ball. I'll win us this World Cup. That was my attitude. And scored the goals in that World Cup and obviously scored one really memorable goal in that World Cup. But that was through my mindset, my attitude, you know and being young and being fearless is uh is certainly a potent thing to have yeah and the world that you now inhabit is full of sometimes quite snooty people do you do you think racing is a snobbish sport or have you been embraced by the people who are in that environment or am i wrong is it not snobbish well i think you get all walks of life and in lots of different sports yes I mean racing let's not beat around the bush to own you need a few quid don't you so to have a few quid then you tend to be either born into money or you've got a good job or whatever it might be however I'm very keen and we do is to open it up to people of all you know depths of pocket let's say we do syndicates we do partnerships we do racing clubs so we try to get everybody involved so i would i would say right yeah i mean it would have its um it would have that side of course you know the royal family attend uh royal ascot and royal families from all over the world attend and you've got the great and the good of of um of of the world really um but i do think there's so many people that just love race and that that wouldn't have you know as i say depth of pocket let's say so yeah i think it's it's not an unfair thing that you've said but I do think that it's uh you know in any walk of life you you get the same if you go to a football match you know you can get them the the great and the good that still lose their temper and and act like with the what was it Roy Keane said the prawn sandwiches the prawn sandwich brigade yeah exactly so you get it in all walks of life right who is your most famous owner um well we train for sort of royal families of of middle eastern um yeah um you know whether it's dubai or um abu dhabi qatar we've trained for you know for quite a lot of the royal families from those countries uh at the moment well i mean household names sir alex ferguson of course he's owned horses with me for a long time luke littler the new darts champion he's uh got a horse with us with his friend Stephen Bunting.

53:05We've got loads of footballers from the Scholeses to the Anthony Gordons to the Ian Wrights to the Steve McManamoms. Oh, they're all there. We've got loads of sporting connection. Wayne Rooney, has he got a horse? Wayne Rooney had horses probably 15 years ago. He was never really into it, but his family were. His granddad was, and Colleen loved a day out at the races as well. So he owned for a little while, but he doesn't anymore. I'll have to get back into his ribs, actually. Yeah, you and Wayne were sort of pitted against each other, weren't you, a bit? But I think, has he said that you were the best teenage player he ever saw?

53:41Is that right? Well, I was a little bit older than him, so obviously he admits it that when he was in the playground, he was trying to copy me and calling himself mine, etc. Like we all do, we all have heroes when we're younger. So it's nice that that happens. And then, you know, fast forward a few years and he's then in the England team with you and we're a strike partnership. Of course, I went to Manchester United. I played with him there for three years as well. So we get on great. And he was a generational talent. I mean, you know, there's not many players that crop up like him. And probably myself and then him, you know, we came just after each other in many ways.

54:29and I guess Harry Kane is top class but he didn't come through with a bang like let's say Wayne and I did at that age so yeah we get on great and he's just a great guy but a great footballer as well Who's going to win the Premier League then? Well Arsenal are the safe bet I think Chelsea are the fly in the ointment

54:51No European football new manager that I think is pretty good the reports are good as well coming out of Chelsea I think the players absolutely think he's brilliant. It's Alonso, isn't it? Yes, they've got some new players. They've signed really well, bought really well. They've got some cracking players there anyway. There's a lot of question marks about a lot of teams in the Premier League. Nine new managers in the Premier League this season, so a lot of question marks. You don't tend to get managerial changes if everything's rosy. So, yeah, lots of question marks, and I think that Chelsea could be the biggest danger to Arsenal.

55:27Michael Owen looking ahead to how the Premier League might finish up this season. And yes, Chelsea did look quite good last night. They've got some issues. Need to do something about the chap in goal, I think. Anyway, that's my assessment. I know nobody asked for it, but I'm just giving you my assessment. Interesting to meet Michael Owen. Meet the Owens is on Amazon Prime from this Friday. and that's it from Hannah, former bouncer at Pets at Home, for now. But you'd be very welcome back because you are very downbeat about what you have to offer and you shouldn't be. OK, now you've got a lot to say.

56:04Yeah, I think just doing it the past few weeks, I do realise, and even if you don't like people being nice to you, but you have a lot of energy and lots of content, which I just don't have. It's just because we're old. We don't have the energy, we do have the content. But I mean, also, sometimes we repeat the content. I mean, let's just acknowledge that. I just didn't know about the pets at home stuff. It's new to me. But it's new to most people. Right, OK. Thank you, Hannah. Honestly, thank you. Hannah has worked very hard the last couple of weeks. So tomorrow, our guest is Jay Rayner, food writer, food critic.

56:41He works for BBC Speech Network. And that'll be interesting because his book about restaurants and about food, it's actually really interesting. He's got some powerful stuff to say. and then on Thursday it's Kate Atkinson and then later on today, when in fact just about now, our next assignment, Hannah, is to go down to the bowels of the building and chat to... Oh, I'm excited. Miriam Margulies. Yeah, she's back, everybody. Yeah. And Miriam, never less than, I would say, excellent value. Yeah, she'll be here next week. And you'll hear that next week. Right, we'll see you tomorrow, or at least I will.

57:17Bye.

57:33Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.

58:45Apple Watch Series 12 conditions requires iphone 11 or later think of a toilet as just an everyday object your entire perspective shifts the moment you experience a kohler smart toilet design changes everything transforming a basic routine into something extraordinary with standout aesthetics and intuitive controls these are functional works of art stunning design that never sacrifices performance enjoy customizable features for elevated comfort and convenience it's more than a fixture. It's a cleaner routine and a more refined space. Experience the difference of Kohler smart toilets. Find more at Kohler.com.

59:25If you're looking for something predictable and low friction over the long term, public markets may be a suitable option. But the moment you want different investment characteristics, it may be time to consider the private markets. See how your wealth can work smarter at creativeplanning.com slash access.