Mindy Kaling

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0:40Bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. the craziest thing I've bought when spiraling I think the sickness with me as I buy things when I'm in a good mood oh okay jewelry is my thing right now I think of myself as like a second rate sitcom Elizabeth Taylor

1:08Mindy Kaling welcome to One Night Stand we're thrilled to have you here this is the only one night stand I've ever done so this is wonderful you're first a very risque total of show that is very um wholesome it's so wholesome but I think that's I mean kind of what we were like how do we sex this up to get people interested while we're talking about books yeah it's like the sex lives of college girls when I when I created that show but it's really just like the friendship lives of college yeah but we're always just trying to shove a bit of sex in there to get everyone's attention exactly one makes you click on it yeah more so I'm so excited to be here yay um have you always been a big reader yeah for instance I was six years old I mean I think it's this kind of typical child of immigrant story um growing up in the 80s and 90s in suburban Boston we didn't have nannies or babysitters but both my parents parents worked and so different other things sort of became nannies for us and it was books like I'd go to my mom's OBGYN office and she would just put me in the last room and I could just bring a book or I could stare at the wall so I just sort of had to become a big reader and it was good that I loved it so much because I spent a lot of time doing it as a kid.

2:18Are there any series in particular that you loved as a kid? One of my best qualities about reading is that I am not a snob and I really like so many different genres so it would be everything from the Babysitter's Club to then when I got older Michael Crichton and then obviously like John Krisham so I would be reading Spear but I'd also loved Bridget Jones Diaries so I really did like reading lots of lots of different kinds of books yeah Stephen King even though it would like keep me up at night so yeah and my parents let me read whatever I wanted there was no censorship there that's so good yeah did you study literature at college or not yeah well I was a playwriting in classics major oh love that yeah so classics because I don't think as a major anymore at any colleges.

3:07But yes, I loved reading about ancient Roman life and Latin. Incredible. Yeah. And then, yeah, playwriting, of course, which is now how I make my living. So I loved both. Who are some of your favorite playwrights? I'm drawn to playwrights the way that I'm drawn to certain TV shows, which is like I work in situational comedy, and that's what I do day in, day out. And so I think someone like Carole Churchill is doing something so completely different as a writer and I really feel like I can learn from that and I went to London when I was a senior in college for three months and um I saw the play far away the Carol Churchill play when I was like 21 it was just one of those experiences you have in college where you see something and it just has such a huge impact on you so um yeah I mean she's probably my favorite playwright I love that yeah have you been to so much Broadway while you've been in New York this month I saw maybe happy ending oh so good it was so good isn't it amazing it was really great and Helen Shen who's the female lead was incredible Darren Criss who won the Tony for it was amazing but um Helen is just so funny and can sing and just do everything so I'm the age where when I see a young Asian woman multi-hyphenate just getting these huge opportunities and killing it like it's extremely exciting for me so she is just incredible so good I love that it was like a bright and tight 90 minutes as well like one I love that with a play I just want to kind of sit there and like yeah yeah exactly get home in time to watch my murder shows and go to bed yes exactly well you've chosen four incredible books that I can't wait to talk to you about so we're gonna start with really good actually by Monica Heisey which is such a fun book when tell me about when you first read that book monica heisey wrote on schitt's creek i don't know her yeah but she's a comedy writer and whenever comedy writers write fiction i'm always like so jealous and excited about it and in general people who write dialogue for a living i just tend to think we'll write a book that i like my friend bj novak wrote fiction and some short stories and they're excellent my friend steve healy who i worked on the office with writes fiction and it's been great and Monica is the same again I don't know her at all I wish I could claim her somehow but I I can't but she wrote about so I feel like in culture I've seen a lot of stories about women around my age getting divorced but I haven't really seen the young divorced woman story yeah and so I was really drawn to that and I also wondered if I had going into it I would have this feeling of like if you get divorced in your 20s I'm like did it even happen like you're fine like I don't think anyone should be getting married till they're 35 anyway so I went into it thinking like are these even real problems and then thinking like oh this book is so funny and so real and um a lot of a lot of books and tv shows and movies are written about women who are like messes and their lives are falling apart but I think the observations in this were particularly good so good overspending when you're spiraling to me is something I can really relate to yeah what's the craziest thing you've bought when spiraling the craziest thing I've bought when spiraling I think the sickness with me is I buy things when I'm in a good mood oh okay um I think a diamond necklace oh I love that yeah so jewelry is my new thing right now I was on set for this new show that I'm shooting in New York and we're on location it's at these incredible places we'll Central Park and um we were on Fifth Avenue yesterday and these fancy shops and everything and between takes um I just on my I'm on this like live auctioneers.com app and you can just go in these jewelry auctions and buy jewelry at like dirt cheap prices so I'll go to bed sometimes at night and I'll put in like a low bid on a bunch of things thinking I won't get anything and I'll wake up in the morning like horrified and delighted at the same time that I've won like five or six of them so jewelry is my thing right now I think of myself as like sort of like a second rate sitcom Elizabeth Taylor is like what I'm going for I love when you're describing it it's like on Fifth Avenue like am I Audrey Hepburn I think maybe I am I know just being like bid bid bid so anyway I recommend it to everyone your viewers live auctioneers.com very straightforward name of a website the book I think is so I mean it's it's hilarious obviously but in despite it being obviously about a divorce and stuff it kind of really feels like it's about female friendship and about the sort of like challenges that come with when you're going through a hard time and how your friend I love the way the friends like they get really pissed off at her but they really hang on in there for her as well I find that really real and um you know you're never the most um annoying as a friend when you're just going through something the tough thing about friendship is you can always see the hardships in your friend's lives coming before they can but then you have to ride the wave with them even though you knew it was coming and so I really liked that about her group of I don't say ragtag a lot but her group of ragtag friends and then um their patience that you have when someone is going through something yeah yeah it's really special and um do you think he's a villain for not talking to her for like the whole year no I think that these situations there's never a good way you're always going to be a villain when relationships end and I don't think there's a good way of doing it.

8:40I hated him for it in a way. You did? Yeah because I was just like he literally he left and never spoke to her again. I mean obviously she went a bit crazy as we heard. Yeah. But she's been secretly calling him every day but when she sent him the email being like okay so we need to get this divorce thing moving and he was just like ghost gone. I mean I here's what I will say I identify with the person who wants answers and a person who is more needy I will say though um when someone when someone ends a relationship it always ended like in my opinion like way earlier than the other person thought and they were just sort of you know if you've ever been in a relationship that you know needs to end you always stay in it like six months to a year longer so in that mind you you've decided that you've loathed the person in order to to like end a relationship and so I think that's the other side of it it's like I've had enough but um yeah I don't know why I'm identifying with him even though I feel like I'm way more like her yeah well I think I mean there is also there's a part of me that thinks sometimes the talking can be really harmful even if it's like makes you feel good in the minute in the moment it sort of prolongs it all a bit I don't believe in closure I think you don't no I think closure is is a myth I think it's like we just have to come to terms with these things yeah and ourselves unless there's like a literal mystery you know like but I think things are less mysterious than we think when a relationship ends yeah I agree with that um Maggie is very anti-therapy in the end she does see a therapist are you anti or pro therapy you know I was raised um in a household I'm Indian and raised by uh Indian immigrants where I think that mental health was not front and center and the idea was just sort of like be normal.

10:25When I was growing up in the 80s and 90s, I think that therapy and dealing with mental health or having mental health problems was considered very white, right? It was just something that you didn't have time for. And it was a big waste of time. And so there was a stigma attached to it. And I think that at the time, it was sort of like a point of pride that we didn't have to deal with any of that stuff. And I think that was not right and when I did my show Never Have I Ever and we deal with this 15 year old girl who's grieving the loss of her father she goes to therapy to the chagrin of her mom and it becomes it was like her lifeboat and I loved doing a show about therapy in the South Asian community especially for a young woman who's like dealing with grief but I also think you don't need to be dealing with something as huge as divorce or death of a parent in order to get something out of therapy.

11:27I've been to therapy during tough times when things are going well. I am that person that's like, I want to take a break, but that's also normal and fine. So I want to really normalize it. I thought that was a great part of the book. And yeah, I want to, you know, normalize it for my kids too. So it's always going to be, I think, in my storytelling, I want to just make that something that people do like go to the gym or see a trainer and see their therapist and they're not messed up people or um particularly neurotic they're just taking care of themselves so I really think it's great we got my dad to go he's like a 70 year old British guy so you can imagine that was not easy but we got him to go in his 60s and he did like a few sessions and he found it so useful but it was so funny because he came out to me and he was like gosh I had this great conversation he loved his therapist this woman who was telling me all about her and then And he was like, you know, she just said to me, she was like, what would you think if someone else was going through what you were going?

12:24And I was like, well, I'd be sympathetic and I wouldn't be hard on them. And I was like, what a great way of thinking about it. And me and my, I told my sister after and we were like, that is the lowest hanging fruit ever, ever. And he was just like, this profound realization. I thought it was so funny. That is savage that your dad is like, I had this really profound revelation. You're like, dad, this is so obvious. Well, I just feel like as girls, you sort of like, I feel like we realized that at 13, 14. And he was just, he was going on this journey. But I loved it. I mean, I was very proud of him that he was even willing to go.

12:54I love that you could, were able to convince your dad to go. I don't think I could ever convince my father to go. It's. Unless I paid for it. And then he was like, what, you lose money? Okay, well, we can't waste money. Yeah, we got it from the NHS, which is how, like, you would never have spent money on it. But it was, I think with him, we always frame it as, it would be really helpful for all the, because I'm one of three girls all the women in your life if you went and he's like well of course I'll do the selfless thing and go then um did it stick yeah that's great and is therapy a big part of your family's culture no no like complete I mean like British I remember when I was not well at university I had an eating disorder and everything and my parents were like oh crikey well I hope you feel better soon so I was gonna say like it from my very limited knowledge of the psyche of like yeah British people it did does not seem like it would not at all not at all but I think I'm very pro it now I've had a great experience with therapy and I think that they can see that for me and so they were also just open to it and I think also we have a very like both of my parents have had mental health challenges my mom in particular was very poorly when I was a early my early teens and I think as a result we have a very pragmatic like it's like the flu are you gonna take your medicine or not wow that's great but it's really I think just a function of necessity but yeah that's amazing yeah but anyway it's I thought this book really captures the sort of eye rolling I mean and all because also sometimes it is funny to be a bit fucked up which I think she gets sometimes therapy can be like don't cure what makes me interesting exactly yes yeah exactly and I think that's kind of what the character in this is sort of dealing with a little bit sometimes.

14:34Yeah. I also loved, and this is a theme that also comes up in Romantic Comedy, the book by Curtis Sittenfeld, which we're talking about next, this idea that she can't quite believe that Simon is into her. And I think it captures that sort of, I think at one point he says to her something like, why can't you just take a compliment? Like, why can't you let me just compliment you? And she just like, can't, which I thought was such an interesting theme. That book to me was, I bought it because I love Curtis Sittenfeld and I read Prep and American Wife and I just love her uh I love her personally too I've met her a couple times and I love her and I'll read everything that she writes that one I made a beeline to buy because the subject material nobody writes about comedy writers and so and working at SNL which is such a mysterious and interesting world for someone like me who lives in LA and writes for sitcoms and it feels so glamorous but it was deceptive because it's actually very hard to read because I just related so much and I felt that someone was seeing my secrets oh my god I did you feel the same way I felt I mean I'm not a comedy writer but I felt like it was the ultimate like anxious neurotic girls fantasy of like this man who like because I'm always trying to deflect or like make something funny who like is like no no listen to what I'm saying and you're like ah it's yes oh and um it was it was both wish fulfillment and a fantasy but it did not skip over the parts that are ugly and um make you feel uncomfortable if you're someone who was raised um funny you know it's it all those protective devices that you have uh the book really I thought and I'd never seen that before so I mean I love all these books but that was the one where I was like again a little hard to read but very romantic pretty sexy yeah um and should be a movie right should I option it I think you should I bet it's already optioned I think let me is that I think it might be optioned by Reese oh that makes sense and she'll do a great job yeah um but no it's so good I really wanted the movie version of it as well and I was casting it in my head.

16:53I was thinking Hannah Einbinder, but then I was like, that's just because she plays a comedy writer on Hax. She would be at the top of my list as well. Yeah. Yeah, I was thinking, and I think what's nice about Hannah Einbinder is that that's the kind of book where comedy writers will have their knives out to see who they cast. Like, are they going to cast Kaya Gerber to play this? By the way, Kaya Gerber is great, but if she was playing this character, I think people would be like, come on. yeah um and so i think hannah has like that's a it's a very that choice has like a lot of cred she's very beautiful but so real and legitimately so funny yeah and who would you cast as the you know i was thinking about that i couldn't land on who i think it should be maybe like a hemsworth i don't know what do you think well age is interesting right because it's like yes a Hemsworth would be great.

17:49Harry Styles would be great. But that character is very fascinating, too, because he's very smart. He's so smart. Which is, I think, a surprise. For me, I think when you're the comedy writer, you're like, everyone's so beautiful and I'm left out of every situation, but at least I'm so smart. And then you're like, wait, other people are smart, too. They can't be smart, too. Then it ruins my idea of who's out to get me. yeah but even every little tiny observation about what it's like to be on set like she really researched this so well the craft services table the conversation they have at crafty that becomes like very deep and so I um yeah I can't wait to see that movie yeah tell me about your you nearly were on SNL but decided not well I think nearly is a stretch I auditioned for SNL yeah the story with with me and SNL I was writing and acting on The Office and it was season two and I got a call to come and audition for SNL and I was so excited and I'm not like this I don't do I'm not like Bill Hader and Jimmy Fallon with like all my impressions so I went there and I had like an impression of Ben Affleck and not much else because I don't know it's just I was like 24 or 25 and an Indian woman, there's not like a lot of people that I could do impressions of believably.

19:10I need to see if I can't make impressions. That aren't a famous Indian woman, um, of whom in 2005, there were not a ton in America. And so, um, I actually take it as a point of pride that young Indian Americans do an impression of me, even though it hurts my feelings. I'm like, well, good. Now you have some material. Yeah. But, um, so I went with very few and very absurd impressions. and uh when I left I got a call that it was so when I auditioned it was Seth Meyers and Lorne Michaels in the room and just it was just a very empty room and I when I left they wanted to hire me as a writer and not as an actor and I remember they were like you know well people like Jason Sudeikis they started as writers and they became actors but then my boss at the office Greg Daniels was like well I said I'd let you out of your contract if you were a cast member on the show but if you're going to be a writer on that show you're a writer and a performer in this show so I think you should stay and um I think that was ultimately the best decision but that was my my brush with SNL it was really a glamorous thing though to like go and audition and have to do that in front of Lauren and Seth and everything how long is the audition is it sort of like 10 minutes very fast yeah it's like like seven minutes you got there you're sitting in a room beforehand with all the other people who they might hire oh so I do know them I was so immersed in the office and yeah I only knew pretty much that world and I hadn't been out auditioning for things because I had this very full-time job there so they were all new to me I don't I don't think I remember anyone from the waiting room but it's still stressful to be yeah sitting there with everyone horrible yeah your normal feeling is like oh I wish them luck but in this you're like go die yeah literally crash landing out there please yeah I also thought this book captures so effectively the feeling of which I always have of like is he flirting with me or not like I can never tell if someone's flirting with me like do you ever well you know what's funny that you say about this my theory is that every man at all time thinks that every woman is in love with them and wants to have sex with them that like every man no matter what their station in life is is like if they see a woman and you're friendly to them they're like oh they want me and I feel like every woman I know is always like oh no one would ever look upon me literally uh and I definitely feel that way so yes that was that was such a great part of it where she was like second guessing it and not sure if it was real also it's very hard to write flirtatiously I completely agree in books like and write it without it being over the top or cringy.

21:52And she had such a light touch with that. And he was legitimately sexy. He was so sexy. In a book, that's very hard, wouldn't you say? Yeah, totally. And also sexy but earnest, which I think is really hard. Like earnestness to me is, I find it quite unattractive in person often. But he sort of lands the plane on that. He's earnest in a way that's not annoying. Yes, exactly. And I think having to move away from your type, if you have a certain type and then you have to acknowledge that this is also attractive I thought was another cool part of the book and that's something I think about all the time like I when I think about who is attractive to me it's like I always just like somebody who is sarcastic and smart literally and reads a lot and has a lot of hot takes on things and it never occurred to me that having hot takes is not the the best reason to fall in love with someone or to give your heart and spend your life with someone simply because they have big opinions well that was one of the lines that I wrote down from Monica's book where it said romantic intent was communicated by a series of tongue-in-cheek dicks like that's how she which is how I grew up as well like that was how my parents are like I think that's also very your culture wouldn't you say totally but I struggle with when I'm in America dating American men I'm like like where's the and when they say really nice things I'll be like what does that mean I know and then but then I know on a certain level as a writer who writes stories for women that you know good is better than nice yeah and that finding someone who is good and has a good heart and as earnest is like what one should yearn for and you should outgrow these immature tendencies to find funny mean people and and then go for someone earnest I've literally I think written this story for young women and I don't I haven't learned that lesson myself no same that's exactly how I feel but um I sort of am like well I'm happy with my three kids and with my like messed up way of thinking about relationships it's fine it's fine it's fine for me being single yeah that's kind of where I'm out with it as well where I'm just like I can't I don't know how to want the other thing yeah And it just feels kind of too difficult.

24:03Well, movies have ruined it all. They really have. Hugh Grant. Yeah. These guys, they've all ruined it. I know. I also like that there's a bit where I think Sally talks about when she's talking with her friends and she talks that like dating when you're older feels like reckless optimism. Do you agree with that? Dating when you're older feels like reckless optimism. As in when you're not like 23. Yeah, it does because I think when I was younger, I was yearning for professional success and personal success. And both felt very, weighed on me equally. And now that I have professional success, it's hard to muster up the energy.

24:48Both were sort of quenched with when one was fulfilled because I can fill my days. When I was younger, I felt like I was like, if I don't have a date on Saturday night, I'm a loser. Like I failed. And now as you get older and smarter, you're like, well, I don't care about that. And no one cares if I do either. And so to get yourself out there to do that, you do have to be sort of recklessly optimistic. I'm so set in my ways in so many different ways. The idea that you would – but when I was 24, 25, I was malleable. I'm like oh you like LCD and a sound system they're my favorite band too you like this kind of food I love tapas as well and so but now you really do have to be sort of recklessly optimistic if you're going to go out there and find someone who will yeah do you ever use the apps have you ever tried the apps or not I don't go on the apps one time um once very pretty recently Reese Witherspoon wanted to set me up with somebody and I didn't even look to see who it was I was just like I didn't like laugh in her face because I love her and I love that she was thinking of me in that way um but I just thought uh it's not time but I laughed at the idea of doing my hair and putting on makeup and getting out there like I have three kids under the age of seven so for me to want to leave them especially when I travel for work a lot just yeah you know that's the other thing isn't it when I'm like do I really want to spend a an evening on a speculative exchange with someone who probably wouldn't even be a friend oh my god a speculative exchange that probably wouldn't even be a friend that is it's savage like I can't I if if I was as quick as you I don't think I would you know I don't think I'd ever go on a date but the thing is it all sounds depressing or anti-man it doesn't at all I feel like a very happy life I work with so many men and I love romance um but it's interesting how you can all those things can be true and you can decide that you're like I'm fine yeah I mean I'm with you one other thing I thought was interesting that I wrote down is that you know she talks about the Sally the comedy writer that she's better at using rage and disappointment to feel creativity and happiness makes that uneasy I absolutely I I that resonates with me so much well I'm at the point now where the only happiness that I truly register is relief when something doesn't go wrong like when I think of of like when I feel happy it's when I'm like oh my god we got through customs on the way of JFK with my kids we got through it okay like relieved and then I was like oh that was really happy but happiness just as like a feeling of like you know it's not comfortable no I don't acknowledge it that's really interesting we have an episode with Brittany Snow going live today and one of the books she recommended was Are You Mad At Me the by a therapist called Meg and Nicholson I hope I've that she talks about how if you're a perfectionist and were sort of raised in this sort of like environment where you had to be perfect in order to be sort of succeed to always feel safe like perfectionism make you feel safe this idea that when things go really well you actually don't feel pride you feel relief and she talked about that in the context well yeah because she was saying that people keep asking her like oh my god does it feel amazing well done the shows are great and she's like I just feel relief she's like I don't feel like that pride it's just pure relief which I thought was really interesting kind of what you're describing.

28:14Okay, so I should read that book. That's a great title for a book too. I know, right? Because that is that recurring thing of like, oh my God, are they mad? You do that hypervigilance of always trying to smooth the edges of everything. Yeah. One other thing that I thought was funny is Sally talks about receiving like family feedback in emails. Do your family ever give you feedback on your projects? My late mother would have a lot of feedback. my dad has a very my dad really understands me um because he knows how stressed out I am about familial approval and so he really keeps it to himself you know like and I really am grateful to him if you like something he'll tell me but he is like never critical of anything of me professionally which is great and I'm sure he has his opinions but he just keeps it to himself that's great yeah I can't say that he had that much to say about the sexless of college girls but he was like I'm so happy it's a hit that's great you know yeah it really is such a gift from him that he is we could not be more different but he he understands my soul yeah and the way that I don't like feedback yeah did he watch running point was he into that yes and my stepmother loved that I loved it so good thank you that's so nice but she said it was her favorite show and my dad um I think my dad liked it less but he enjoyed it still I was really rooting for that um the cast to get their Emmy noms like I really like Kate is so wonderful so good and you know Drew Tarver I think you know the whole cast but to me like and Justin Theroux I think just really makes me laugh but you know life is long so we'll yeah we'll see you know we have this thing um when you are a star of a sitcom which is like you come in and you're not just acting your part and then like having a laugh and a bite to eat and then going home like you're the comedy engine for the day yeah right and I learned this when I did the Mindy Project after watching Steve Carell but I really I saw it when I watched Steve be the star of The Office that like every day he went home exhausted yeah like thrilled but exhausted because you come in and you're just you're not just the person with the most lines you're the person who's like the lifter of energy for this entire cast and I learned that when I did the Mindy project and every day I would come home and I felt like I'd run 26 miles and we'd shoot like six or seven pages it doesn't seem that much but you have to enter each room with like a ton of energy and throw it to other people and lift their energy and everyone is like there at six o 'clock in the morning and missing their families and kind of hungry or hungover and you're like guess what I'm breaking you out of that and Kate does that yeah I see that firsthand and I know that this is not a show about talking about your favorite performers, but she is just, it's like amazed.

30:57I'm amazed, and she's been doing it since she was a kid, and she comes from a, obviously her parents taught her well too, but that's all you want as a show creator, someone who comes in and they're just like, I'm the comedy engine of this, I know what my job is. I love that. She's also such charisma on screen as well, like when you watch her, you're just like. She's such charisma. I mean it's and it's different than just beauty too because she's very beautiful no it's different when I told people that I was doing a new show and that we just cast Kate all my friends whether they were friends from the industry friends from home my stepmother my stepmother's friends they are all like we're obsessed with her and I loved I like I really loved her and admired her as an actress but I was like what is this and they're like she just seems like she has such a fun life you know what I mean she like dated rock stars is a performer herself like has three kids and like like they all have really cool names and she's best friends with her brother and I'm like yeah you're right like she's this total like California like uninhibited like she is a little neurotic but she doesn't lead with that yeah and so I've learned a lot yeah that's amazing I always just think she always looks great when she's like walking I know that sounds stupid but you know when someone can make like walking in a scene and you're like where are they going like that's not an easy thing to do no I totally know she's an urgency she's actually in some ways she's sort of the opposite of Sally yes you know and uh I bet Sally would have a very funny take about someone like Kit Hudson um but uh yeah I feel lucky I've gotten to know her because I definitely have thought she was very different yeah I love that yeah well your third book which is um a book that is published under your imprint.

32:38Mindy's book studio is yours for the season by Uzma Yaluddin. Tell me about this book because I loved it. So Uzma who is she loves romantic comedies and she has made it her life mission her life's mission to write romantic comedies about South Asian characters Muslim characters and put them in traditional romantic story storylines which I think is amazing. um we have another book with her which we're adapting into a movie um and she if you talk to her uh as a writer she is obsessed with sleepless in seattle she loves you've got mail and she has these like um sort of delightfully mainstream sources of inspiration um and so i just i just love her yeah she's so amazing and there were so many lines that i that the sort of like the cultural conversations and when she talks to her parents and says you know I for a long time I felt like your love was conditional and the resolution it's really sort of satisfying like she really the ending and the sort of she's she sort of wraps it all up so nicely well what I like about the themes in all of her books even the ones that are romantic are um to me I feel like she always talks about the individuality versus loyalty to your family and family familial expectation and I think that if you're an immigrant from any culture I think that will like really resonate with you yeah also in our community romantic love uh is something that is celebrated and getting married is so important um in finding a person but it's also there's some shame attached to it as well you know particularly like women and desire yeah and so I really like that she's writing about these things in a way that's palatable for like many communities including ours totally it's also relatable and yet singular and sort of I think yeah it's it's really incredible and tell me a little bit about um your imprint and what your sort of the goals saw that okay well um amazon came to me and said hey would you be interested in doing an imprint about with writers that you can pick all of the authors yourself and meet them um and they can all be like women of color and women from sort of uh backgrounds that you think are fascinating or underrepresented and the kinds of books that I want to read are those kinds of women writing stories that are like romantic about murder uh and page turners yes I mean you can see from the the books that I've gotten here so I that's what we look for page turners yeah and uh the authors if you looked at all the authors like you'll see sort of a similarity from backgrounds um and that was by design yeah I love that I also read I'll follow you by Charlene yes that's you also read I'll follow you yeah because before you'd sent your books over I was like I'll just read this they've sent me to me I loved it it's so fun yeah so much backstabbing oh my gosh but also good the car I thought the college stuff in that was so fun it's really good really captures the kind of the sort of like hot box feeling of being on a college campus and the sort of everyone sort of looking over their shoulder the whole time about who's cooler where's the scene like what's the vibe I thought it captured that so brilliantly yeah I love books that follow characters from college and how it never really leaves you like I'm always thinking about slights from college and what people said to me in college more even than high school really and um and how it affects my relationships now yeah I think it's because unlike high school you're living with these people and it's the first time you're really doing that and I think you when you're that young I never went to sleep away summer camp or anything but when I met all my friends in college I was as vulnerable with them as I was with my family because I didn't know any other way of being like I was like okay I'll just be as open with you but they're not your family um and so I think that's why the heartbreaks and betrayals are so much more memorable yeah but um yeah I mean to me that's great I love anything that was with sisters because I didn't have one and so I sort of really romanticize that relationship too.

37:06Yeah. No, there's a lovely, the relationship in Yours for the Season between Samira and her sister is so lovely. The sister's like when she's far away in England and they're sort of, they really just have each other's back. It's really lovely. Isma is great because I think in all of her books there's no sourness. No, that's true, yeah. There's nothing sour about things and sometimes I'll read a book and I like when Jonathan Franzen describes a little sour relationship between like a husband and you know the husband and the son or the way they talk to each other and sort of mistreat each other and people are straightforward in her books I think.

37:47Yeah. It's not that they're not sarcastic and passionate and disagree but I think that her worldview is really reflected in her books which is that people are sort of inherently good and just kind of misunderstood. I completely agree and like even the bits where there's a bit in that book where she's talking to Tom the guy that she's interested in and and he's like being like well you'd never fancy me and she's like oh come on you're attractive Tom kind of thing and even that doesn't feel like sort of too eye-rolly she's sort of like she describes it as grumbling which I think is really like sweet it's all kind of it's all very sweet.

38:19It's very sweet. Yeah. How far are you in the adapting process for her other book? The script is done. Oh great. The script is amazing she's on board as a producer great and so yeah we're just like waiting to see what happens now but I love the script I could see you know the great thing about a movie like that is inherently I think you'd be discovering talent which is something that really excites me when I think about shows like Never Have I Ever or College Girls it's like finding a lot of young people through literal open casting calls and with that with Hanukkah carries on it would be pretty much an all South Asian cast and it would be and there are like a lot of young people so I think we would be discovering a lot of new talent so I really hope that goes.

39:10Yeah I love that, that's exciting well your fourth book Talking of Sisters is My Sister the Serial Killer by Oya Ken Braithwaite. I read this book a few years ago when it came out but tell me about your love for it. Okay so this is the outlier I think of the books wouldn't you say yeah I think yes so my parents met in Lagos Nigeria and it's always been a very mysterious place to me because they met there and then they moved to they got married there and then they moved to the United States and even though they've had some of their formative experiences there and they both spend seven to eight years they uh have never brought us back there and so whenever I can read stories about Lagos and everything I find it fascinating and uh I thought it was such a great backdrop for this like noir-ish novel yeah and the story is just so unusual this relationship with between these sisters the younger sister is so funny so funny the writing is incredibly deadpan um very unusual and again I love murder so I I am obsessed with sisterhood and murder and it's it's funny but in a very different way than the other books are um and so I just I I loved it and the cultural specificity of Lagos yeah really made it very different than anything else out there I thought also it's so fun the way she captures the way that men are hypnotized by her sister being attractive for reasons they can't understand and even like her friend the doctor who she thinks is as smart as interesting she's like what do you like about her and he's like she's just so special and she's like yeah I really felt like I related to that character um and I even though I don't relate at all to Ayula I thought that that was such a fun creation like I and I I loved the idea I think I feel like a very I'm the youngest but I feel like a big sister and so to me even though the situation is crazy and she's literally cleaning up after her sister's murders like I just was I still thought it was glamorous yes I know exactly what you mean it did feel kind of sexy and fun and and um I know it's just it's also just it really is about the limits that people will go to for people they love right yeah and I think that's always entertaining and fun to read about yeah you say you know you feel like a big sister is there anyone in particular you feel like a big sister too are you like big sister role in your friendship group yeah you know I just came from set for um this new show not suitable for work this new show on Hulu and the writers there they're almost all women and three of them are here in New York with me so they can learn what set is like and they can see what it's like to work with actors and I think the more you worked with actors the better writer you become I think being an actor myself has helped me enormously as a writer because I know how to say the lines like it was just and it makes things more coquial and natural and um so to be with the writers there they're all younger than me they're very different from each other so they've just been with me like we do these 12 14 hour days in New York City and so they sit with me in Video Village we have our little chair set up there and so they feel like my little sisters I actually think this desire for sisterhood like a literal sisterhood has made um has kind of leaked into my professional life because I feel I sort of mimic these relationships over and over again where I like I have younger women they either started as my assistant or a writer's assistant and then they work their way up and become writers on my shows and so going into these writers rooms it's so much more fun to have these people that I have this history with and also unlike a sister who you don't pay because I employ a lot of them they have to listen to me so that's always really nice the younger female writers are the most passionate and when they see something that's not correct or um it just bothers them and they will they can't sit and if something feels insincere or not cool like they have so much passion and they sometimes it's like kind of a lot actually they're like we have to change this we have to change this and I I am inspired by that.

43:23Yeah. And again, it can be very tiring, but I also think it's great. And it's what makes my shows, which are predominantly about young women, better. Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema. So I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about EBCLIS? EBCLIS, Lubrikizumab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema. Also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies, EBGLYS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids.

44:05Don't use if you are allergic to EBGLYS. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EPCLIS. Before starting EPCLIS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paid partnership with Lilly. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about EPCLIS and visit EPCLIS.com or call 1-800-LILLY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. That's the sound of zero sugar, 200 milligrams of caffeine, and the power to burn body fat. Storm, energy for life. Storm Energy Blend helps boost metabolism, which in combination with exercise and a healthy diet helps burn fat this product alone does not produce weight loss individual results may vary yeah i completely agree i actually really loved it in monica's book where she talks about how and her friends don't like it but she's like nothing matters nothing lasts forever like i feel like as i've got older i've got more like that in a way that i feel is quite empowering yeah but then when you work with young people who are so passionate about every detail it's quite like inspiring to remember what it's like that's so true because i've made so many episodes of tv that i'm like they can't all be winners like every episode right you do 22 episodes the office and every once in a while you're going to have an episode that you're not the biggest fan of because they got to just churn them out and it's for these people were the first tv show that worked on the first episode of tv their name has been on they care and what i love about these young women is that they they don't have a sense of like oh like i i don't want to tell mindy this because like i don't want to seem impertinent or whatever they're just like loudly telling me exactly how they feel and i really like it and i used to be that way when i was younger so um yeah, I love how much integrity they have.

45:43Oh, that's brilliant. Yeah, it's really fun. Talking about The Office and some winners, some not, do you have a favorite episode? My favorite episode of The Office is early. I really loved the episode Diversity Day. And the reason I love it, it's written by B.J. Novak. And I think he's written episodes after that that might even be funnier. But what I loved about that is that it really set the tone of the way the show was going to be. it's the second episode and I felt like he really helped us in the writer's room because the episode we shot was very close to the episode he wrote and it just sort of said like this is how our show is going to be different than the British office which we all revered yeah um and think is perfect we're like well this is how we could do something new and so I always love that episode because you know not only is it funny but I think it really it really steered us in a direction and then it affected every episode afterwards you you mentioned the sort of like process do you of giving sort of feedback and stuff with your book studio do you give feedback on the books or do you leave that to the editors like how does that work to me my role just because of the different shows that I have and movies and other books that I'm working on to me I find a book when it's like kind of done already and I and I'm grateful to this I don't have to go through the editorial process with people they've already done it so I'm finding books that are fully formed books um and just helping them at the very end to like cover art and um and then you know I try to pick things selfishly that feel cinematic yes that could be turned into something else because who doesn't love oh exactly adaptation yeah adapted into a mini series or a movie and so um yeah and and I love not being the person that has to call up an author and be like well I have all these problems I just like being the person that's like I loved it and I love to talk about it yeah when you think about sort of when you describe earlier that you become a better writer with working with actors what does that look like what what's the what did you learn specifically the biggest thing I've learned with working with actors and on set and spending so much time with them is their cadences and how to write things that this is going to sound so simple and obvious, but just that they can say easily, you know, and that's in their voice.

48:03I think a lot of times, especially in comedy, you like writing is king and jokes are king and you want the writing to be the star. And the truth is things are so much more enjoyable when you're watching them if the actors can sort of believably rattle it off. And so, you know, we've worked with so many different performers, whether it's like Kate Hudson or Pauline Chalamet or, you know, on this new show, like Nicolas DuVernay. And they all have different backgrounds, different ways that they grew up talking. And that's the it's like a lot of work. But it's also so fun when you feel like they can read it.

48:42They're at a table read and they're so delighted because you've really captured their voice. Yeah. And then it makes things easier to shoot. But yeah, like Michael Scott talks very differently than Isla Gordon. And that's so much because of what we learned from Steve Carell and Kate Hudson and the way they are able to, you know, say lines. Have you ever had to really coax an actor into doing something they didn't want to do? I think the days of coaxing anybody to do anything are kind of past. Really? Interesting. Yes, I am at the stage now where I am not trying to force anyone to be in a show of mine, write in a show of mine, work for me, love me.

49:27Like, I'm just not forcing anyone to do anything. And I feel like if people want to be a part of something that I've done, like, that they sort of, like, I just want to, I mean, this is, again, because I'm 46. but this is just like I just want to work with people that are like sort of drawn to me and then things work easily that's great because I thought I was interested in that in the romantic comedy book where they talk about with the talent on SNL and sometimes having to persuade them to be like I know it feels difficult but I promise it's going to play really well which is not to say things are easy or anything and definitely a lot of times with a sitcom which is obviously there's stuff coming down the pike that the actors don't know about it's if something doesn't make sense it's letting them know like where we're headed.

50:14And it's not to say that everything we do is perfect, but we just did this yesterday. We were working with this actress, Avantika, and she had some questions about moments in certain scripts. And we had a great conversation with her and the writers telling her about what was coming down in episode 8, 9, and 10. And she had only read up to like 4 and 5. And so that's like a big part of the job as well, which is just, and you know, we're constantly changing things based on the strengths of the actors and how they feel. Because they own the character as much as we do. The script is only actually done and locked when it pretty much is shot.

50:51Like, it's up until that moment. It's this living document. We were just on set yesterday on Fifth Avenue. We're shooting there in Central Park. And every single scene, we were making little alts and changing things based on, like, how the actors were doing things today. So I'm pretty fluid and flexible that way. But yeah, in terms of coaxing people and doing anything when you're doing things in variety TV shows and that that is, I think, a very difficult, different and difficult thing. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, really, really hard. I suppose also a bit like when you're describing the patients and keeping everyone moving, I feel like being a parent is like 90 percent that as well of like, you know, coaxing and not coaxing, but sort of like they I do.

51:34I do coax my children. I'll say like I'm with grownups, I'm done with coaxing anyone to do anything. If you don't want to be there, you don't have to be. But with children, it's just coaxing. I think as a truly impatient person, the biggest test of my life is getting my kids shoes on every day. Yeah. It is like the socks, the shoes, the picking the shoes. You know, it's just tying the shoelaces like that is for someone who is like very efficient and impatient. I think it's good. I think it's a good test for me my daily test several times a day are they readers do you read my daughter is a big reader oh really yeah she loves right now we're doing um the graphic novelization of the babysitters club yeah they're great there's like 17 of them um I wish they would do more but they uh there's a graphic novel version of it and it's great because she can read it um it's obviously graphic novels are so cinematic so I'll just read them before bed and it feels like extra movies for her you know god she's gonna be following in your footsteps with that training i mean i i hope so i mean i if she seems right early to me she does my daughter yes because she loves telling stories yeah she has a very funny um she just has like funny turns of phrase and things like yeah it is amazing watching the little ones lock in when you're reading a book I was reading to my sister's one and a half year old.

53:01I was reading Zog, you know, the Julia Cosson books. And she had been like, she was tired, she was a bit manic, and then she just kind of sat on my lap and it was like, dong. And I was like, oh, it's so special that that book's worked that way. Well, those books are so good too. They're so good. They're so funny, like Room on the Broom. Oh, so good. They're so like. And the BBC adaptations that they do one each Christmas are so good. I didn't know they did that. They do one each Christmas. It's like a thing that comes on on Christmas Day in the UK. What? And they do these very calming, quiet, like the snail and the whale.

53:32They've done the Gruffalo. All of them. It's so good. Oh, my gosh. Gruffalo is so fun. It's so good. And that shrewd little mouse. Yes. Wait, so I wonder if we can see them over here. I'm sure you can. I bet they're on YouTube somewhere or Netflix or whatever. Wow. So she is a national treasure. Oh, enormously so. Those are incredible. They really are. Well, thank you so much, Mindy, for doing this. Thank you. Uncovered windows can make your home feel up to 20 degrees hotter. Stay cool and save up to 50 % off custom window treatments during the 4th of July mega sale at blinds.com. From outdoor shades to room darkening blinds, finding the perfect fit is easy.

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