Zosia Mamet

0:00Zosia Mamet:Get business done with the new American Express Graphite Business Cash Unlimited card. With unlimited 2 % cash back on all eligible purchases, unlimited 5 % cash back on flights and prepaid hotels booked through American Express Travel Online, and a flexible spending capacity that can grow with your business, you'll have the confidence to keep building. Apply today and earn a welcome offer of$1 ,500 cash back after you spend$50 ,000 in qualifying purchases on your new card within the first six months of card membership. Terms apply. Learn more at go.mx.graphite. One summer I was like, I'm going to read Moby Dick.

0:32And it was the most torturous summer of my life. I was like, I fucking hate this book. But I made myself finish it because I thought I had to or needed to say I'd read it. It's not enjoyable. I found the writing bad. Hot take, maybe I'll get canceled for this. He's going to come for you. He's still alive. He's for sure going to come for me. Or the whale will. I don't know which one.

1:00Sasha, welcome to One Night Stand. Thank you so much for having me. We're so happy to have you here. Were you always a big reader? Yes, always, since I was very little. OK. You talk a little bit about, in the book, about really being into books that were portals to other worlds, like Narnia and A Wrinkle in Time, and sort of always wanting to cross that barrier. Tell me about that. I didn't have a great childhood. I was bullied really badly, which I talk about in the book as well. I moved around a lot as a kid. I lived on the East Coast till I was five and had this kind of like idyllic kind of bubble, like joy bubble up until that point.

1:41And then we moved to Los Angeles and it all burst. And I think it was just the way that my child mind was attempting to deal with and process what was happening to me. And I mean, anyone who loves books knows that they're such an incredible escape. Yeah. And that's really, I think what those start, it was like reading in general, but then reading about these books where there was an escape for the characters within them. And they did walk through closets into these magical worlds. And something about that, I think, as a kid going through struggles that I didn't really understand at the time, it gave me a lot of hope?

2:23Well, the first one I thought we could talk about today of your favorite books is Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen. Something that I think is really fun now that we've been doing this series for a while is when there's overlap in picks because I really like, I love to hear what resonates with people that's like either different or the same, but we had Celine Song on recently, the director, and she talked about coming to understand Mrs. Bennett in a different way as she got older. Tell me more about your like when you read it for the first time and what you love about it. You know I think it's sort of a continuation or was for me at the time of that escapism that I loved as a child and like it wasn't magic in this form but it was just a world that was so other to mine.

3:16I grew up reading a lot of authors like of that era when I was in my late teens, early 20s. I read a lot of Jane Austen. I read a lot of Edith Wharton. And it felt to me like I could both see myself in these characters and find comparisons and yearn for the things that they yearned for. I was a very lonely person in my late teens and early 20s. I was coming up as an actor in L.A. Everyone that I had known had left to go to college except for me. And like trying to become an actress at that time, at that age was just it was so incredibly isolating. I would have like five auditions a day just driving back and forth.

4:06It was a very kind of cattle call-y existence. And like all I would do at night was learn my lines or re-scripts. And I went to a lot of movies by myself and I just read a ton. And I think there's something about Jane Austen that feels so incredibly grounded. And so many of her female heroines to me felt so empowering. And yet there still is something, there's an element that's so escapist to her writing and almost feels like I just always felt very swept away by her books. And it made like the rest of my world just totally disappear. And I was just left in this world that she had created. And I could worry about the problems of her characters and like allow my heart to just sort of become one with theirs.

5:06And I think that was something I loved so much about Pride and Prejudice was that it made me feel so much, but it was about things that had nothing to do with me, which both felt like it was like so invigorating and also such a relief. Yeah. So the book was very important to me at the time that I read it. I mean, you know, people talk about reading for escapism and I feel like there, you know, sometimes it's just like a beach read and completely like taking your mind off things, but like the journey you've had of like them, taking you out of yourself and into this other world. It's like a really beautiful thing.

5:43Like what a very profound relationship with books you have. I did, yeah. They were like, yeah, I really was like in relation to a lot of these books and these authors when I was at, they were really, I mean, it sounds like so sad and dramatic, but in so many ways they were like my only friends at the time. Having recently read your memoir, it's like you were going to like a lot of like vintage shopping and auditions. and I know like feeling very isolated. But yeah, what else were you reading at the time? Yeah, I think that time period in my life was, it was sort of colored by a lot of nostalgia.

6:17And I think that was another attempt to just kind of like escape my current reality. So I looked back a lot. You know, I was also living with my dad at the time who basically like anything created after like 1984, he's like, that's trash. so he was a big influence in that way as well and I lived in Santa Monica near the Arrow Theater so I spent a lot of time in that movie theater by myself like watching all the movies that they showed but yeah I read a lot of Jane Austen, Edith Wharton, John O 'Hara, I read all of Hemingway, I read a lot of Russian novels, which did not help my mood. But I do love Anna Karenina.

7:04That is one of my faves. What else did I read at the time? Charles Portis was a really fun one. You gave yourself an English major. I fully did. I mean, I do have my dad to thank for that in a big way. I would come home a lot and there would just be like a stack of books on my bed. But yeah, but I looked, I really didn't read anything new at the time. It was like all, yeah, I guess I sort of like went through the canon a little bit. Well, I was going to talk about this one a little bit later on, but being of that age and in that moment is making me think of Eve Babbitt, who you've picked today.

7:41Slow Days, Fast Company. And I'm curious when you read that for the first time to start. So I actually didn't come upon Eve until later in life. I would say probably like a decade after that. Now I've come into contact with a lot of like pieces and sort of criticism about the fact that she came up at the same time as Joan Didion. And she basically was just like forgotten. Yeah. But I mean, I guess it depends on what side of the aisle you fall on. But many people think like was actually a better writer. What do you think? I haven't read enough Joan Didion to be able to like do a one to one because I've read everything Eve Babbitt has ever written.

8:23So I feel like, and I don't know. I mean, I think they're such different writers. Completely. Like, I think, God, like who would that be a similar comparison to? I mean, in many ways, I think it would be sort of like comparing John O 'Hara and Hemingway. They're just like, their tone is so intrinsically different. I took a class in college that was like Fitzgerald and Hemingway. And it was really like hitting them up against each other. That's probably a better comparison. No, but I wouldn't have gone there in my head if you hadn't said. And it's like they're just radically different despite being in conversation with each other.

9:03It's like comparing a stoic to a romantic. It's like you can't. They're just, they're not even, they're not comparable. But I don't know. I mean, Eve Babbitt's is maybe my top two favorite authors of all time. Who's the number one? Reserved for. I don't know. Yeah, it's tough. I don't know. I couldn't answer the question. I mean, picking four books was, like, torturous. I think about it all the time, and I don't know. I, like, can't figure it out. I mean, there are just, there are too many. And, like, while I was making this list, I was texting my manager, who's another huge reader. and we share books all the time.

9:44And I was like, oh my God, what about this? What about this? And there were so many authors that I had read that she hadn't. And I was like, oh my God, I know what I'm getting you for Christmas now. I'm going to buy you like 50 books. And certain authors who I love that she also hadn't heard of. And I was like, this is crazy. And then vice versa as well, which is so, so interesting. Well, Eve, you read much later, but I do think, you know, as someone who grew up in California and had wonderful adventures and misadventures and all the things that you cover so beautifully in your memoir. I guess, yeah, like how do you think about Eve and the girl you were when you were lost, like at that, you know, very going on your cattle calls and reading Jane Austen and I guess, yeah, how you view yourself and having read her now.

10:30I think there is something. I think that she is a powerful, incredible, entertaining writer for anyone, But I think as someone who grew up in Los Angeles and in Hollywood, there's something about L.A., especially when you're young, that is there's like an essence to that place that is so hard to capture and describe. And it's like both sort of disgusting and horrible and like the most magical place. Like a friend of mine was driving home the other day and left me a message in California. And she was like, the like the jacaranda trees are blooming and I can smell the jasmine in the air and the sun is hitting just right as it sets.

11:25And there's like that moment where you're just like, California, oh my God, like you give me goosebumps. And then you're immediately reminded why it's like a dumpster fire of a place to live. And the seesaw effect of living there can just like give you whiplash. But it's like another planet. It's just the strangest, it's the strangest place. And it's such a weird place to grow up and come into your own. and I think there was something about Eve's writing that hit so hard for me when I read it because it made me feel so seen and understood and it felt like someone when you're trying to articulate something and you kind of can't and they just give it to you in the most succinct way and you're like, yes, that.

12:19And there was something so satisfying and comforting about that. And her writing is just like so amazing and poignant and funny. She's so funny. But yeah, it felt very, it felt very relatable to me. I think sometimes if you're from a place and you're kind of like, you don't get it, not that you're afraid to mythologize it, but you almost like, I don't know, I feel like you have a weird relationship with, like, both, like, the romanticcy of it. Like, the, like. Yeah, sure. Because, like, all the, like, the romanticcy novels that are out right now. Yeah, sure, sure. So, like, that's not actually a word.

12:56That's a phrase. Whatever. The romantic nature of Los Angeles. But I think she really plays, like, maintains the mythology while also, like, poking holes in it. In a really, like, a way that, like, I think is hard to do without ever sounding cynical and just, like, but also being a realist. For sure. And I think, you know, it's such a, like, therapy-speak thing. I always laugh when my therapist says this to me. But she's like, two things can be true. Yeah. Which I think is, it's, like, such a truth of life. Yeah. And I think the way Eve writes, she's like, yes, this place is absolutely filled with the scum of the earth.

13:31And it can be the most magical place ever. Do you like reading about old Hollywood? Oh, yeah. It's one of my favorite genres. Yeah, yeah. I am a big, you'll never eat lunch in this town again. It's a great one. But I just, like, I like, I think about it all in conversation with Eve. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. John O 'Hara wrote a great old Hollywood one that I almost picked called The Big Laugh. Oh, I haven't read it. It's very fun. I feel like I would really like it. Okay. I'm going to stop by McNally anyway after this. Great. So I'm like, let's do it. Contemporary. The next book we can chat about is David Sedaris, Me Talk Pretty One Day.

14:09I know he's huge, huge, huge for you. When did you make it to Sedaris? Probably my early 20s. Okay. And I started reading and listening to him read his books on tape. I probably read and listened. I read all of them and probably listened to almost all of them, which is, I mean, like, I don't know which one's better. Both fantastic. I've been listening. I was listening this week. So good. And it's just, he's such a good reader. It's just, it's remarkable. Yeah. It's like you didn't think his words could get better, but then they do when he reads them out loud. Yeah. You write about in the book, getting the opportunity to meet him and almost chickening out.

14:54Can you tell us a little bit about that story? So he, I was reading one of his books and I did, I don't remember if it was a New York Times piece or what it was. It was like a culture diary, basically. So it was like, what are you reading, watching, listening to? And I was reading Best of Me. And I was talking about that. And I got an email from one of my agents that was like, David Sedaris' team reached out. He reads whatever you did every day, weekend, whatever it was. And wanted to, like, write you a note to say thank you for talking about his book. Which, like, would have been enough. Totally.

15:34I was like, this is, even just getting this email, even if he never wrote to me, like, that's enough. And I, growing up in Hollywood, I don't get very starstruck easily just because I was so exposed to, like, these very famous people from a young age and came to learn that they were all just, like, people. But I'm so starstruck by authors, I think because they've been so important to me. Yeah. And because they're not, we kind of mythologize authors, right? because for the most part we don't like they don't they're often not super public facing figures and they've created these worlds that we have these very intimate relationships with so I just was like overwhelmed by the knowledge he even wanted to write to me and then he did and then I asked him to write an essay for my first book and he said yes and again like all of these steps like would have been I was just dying at all of this happening and then I was shooting season two a flight attendant in LA and he knew I was there and he wrote me and asked if I wanted to have breakfast with him and I said yes and then like it was like a month or so before he came so I freaked out for a month about like what to wear and what I wanted to say and how to not act weird and then the day arrived and I he was staying at the Four Seasons and he asked me to have breakfast with him there and I got there way too early and went into the bathroom and then was like I I can't I can't like I physically can't like I I'm I was so worried I was just gonna like do something so weird or embarrassing what would that have been I don't even know down or like I I was like, am I gonna like shit my pants?

17:31Am I gonna say something inappropriate that like offends you? Am I gonna - Seems pretty like hard to offend. For sure, 1000%. Like actually would prefer to be offended. For sure. But I still understand. I mean, my anxiety is like, anxiety is not reasonable, right? Or like based in fact, but it was like - Absolute, no, no, no. It was, but that's for sure accurate. like he probably would have been delighted if you had if i had shat my pants at breakfast he would have been like this is fantastic let's do it again yep exactly yep that didn't happen i spent like 45 minutes breaking out in the bathroom and then we had a wonderful breakfast and he was there which was very helpful and then he wrote me an email after and told me that i had very good manners which i was like yeah i was both so like honored that he said that and then i was like wait is that a euphemism for something or like maybe not a compliment coming from you to your point have you been told like what are your like have you been i mean you seem like you have good manners but like i it's not there wouldn't be like that's a takeaway no not as but like but that i just don't think about things like that but maybe he is more of a man of manners than we are privy to you know you actually we don't we don't know you said we've anthologized these people so true it was we We recently had Sarah Jessica Parker on, which was amazing.

18:58And she was talking about the amount she thinks about Donna Tartt and what her life is actually like. Like Sarah Jessica was like, I find it embarrassing. Like I'm embarrassed by how much I think about Donna. I get it. But it is like, you know, they give us these things. And then some people are a lot more public facing and do the interviews. But like some are like, here's the work and like go back. Bye. For sure. Nothing from Donna. I was just at a shoot before this and we were looking at the photographer's bookshelves and I was like, oh my God, I should have picked Secret History. I can't believe I didn't.

19:30Sarah Jessica picked Goldfinch. I'm a much more Secret History girl. Same. It's so good. I mean, it's a perfect book. They've tried so many times to make it a movie. Do you think it just, yeah, it shouldn't? I think it's correct. I think that maybe the book gods are like, no. I think there are some things, absolutely. And, like, often there are things we can do off the page that just elevate what's happening there. And I think there are some things that, like, need to not be touched. Do you want any of Eve's work to be adapted? Yes and no. I mean, they've been trying to do that for so long. No, I mean, that's what I ask.

20:07I was actually given Eve's, the way that I came to discover her, this amazing producer was attempting to adapt her works into a television series. and so she had them and I had like a general meeting with her and she was like I think that you would like this author and she gave me Slow Days Fast Company. Wow. And I was like mind blown. That's a gift. Maybe the only thing that I think potentially would be her novel Sex and Rage. Yeah. Because it's kind of her but also very much a fictionalized character. Yeah. I just don't know her tone would be so hard to get right so have you ever seen um played as it lays no the movie impossible it doesn't work yeah it's not some things just don't they just don't work you know and like that's okay and that's you don't need to adapt everything we can just like come up with original ideas and make those into movies not everything has to be ip-based true story i said it not you so reading your memoir as i was listening to sedaris i was thinking about his influence on you and there's a section that you here i'm gonna pull it out this is actually not this is a not dummy book i wrote down the oh my god okay amazing i just like the way you set this up this is such a funny thing you wrote and the way you set it up Like, you know, I think about Sedaris, I think about it like Russian nesting dolls.

21:43Like the joke just keeps coming. That's such a good way to describe his writing. That's so accurate. And I thought that actually, you know, if you wouldn't mind, I think you should read it. But I don't know how we want to do it. We want to like pretend it's in the book. But we don't have to if you were to. You know what? Let's just let's just be honest. Let's be honest. Let's just show him behind the curtain. I just the way you set this up is so funny. Oh, my God. I just read this. I'm reading the book on tape right now. And I just read this essay the other day. And I was like, oh, this guy. do you know who Kurt Vonnegut is?

22:15I nod tentatively, even though, of course, I know who Kurt Vonnegut is. He pauses for dramatic effect, I assume. And then he says, I fucked his daughter, too. He's still inside me, if you can really call it that. His dick is the size of a lipstick. It's just, that is a nesting, that's a Russian nesting. just the way that like the Vonnegut is funny your comprehension of it is funny and then we learn we're having sex and then we learn his dick is small and it's just it was a perfect thing I'm so pleased you enjoyed it it was I mean enough to write it down pen to paper so thank you but that was when I was like oh I feel I feel Sedaris here that is the nicest compliment I think anyone could ever give me so thank you I mean it's not as nice as him telling you that you have great manners but I can try.

23:07We think. We think. We're not sure. We're not sure. We're not sure. We're not sure. We can't get inside his head. And we don't want to. We don't want to. We don't want to. We don't want to. Another book you picked today is The Hearts Invisible Furies. Tell me about why you wanted to talk about that one. So I sort of released myself from this like I think a lot of me reading fiction pre like maybe per my dad's influence 1980 whatever was also part of like some sort of guilt or shame that I had of not going to college yeah that I have like since totally let go of but um I think there was some insecurity that I didn't feel smart enough growing up and so I feel like I tried to mask that with being like I'm gonna read the great novels of our time which like was wonderful except you know I would also do things like one summer I was like I'm gonna read Moby Dick and it was the most torturous summer of my life I was like I fucking hate this book but I made myself finish it because I thought I had to or like needed to say I'd read it that whatever it is like 150 pages where he just talks about a whale skeleton haven't read it don't do it it's terrible it's not really not good it's not enjoyable I found the writing bad hot take maybe I'll get canceled for this he's gonna come for you he's still alive for sure gonna come for me or the whale will I don't know which one but I hated it and I was like wait why am I doing this to myself I can't remember what it was that sort of broke that spell but I started reading you know things like David Sedaris and then one summer because it's hard for me when I'm in the middle of shooting to read anything that requires a ton of brain power because my brain is just so consumed with learning lines yeah so one summer I read Harry Potter I like went back I'd never read it I've only read like the first two.

25:15I was like, I'm going to go back to my childhood roots of reading magical books. And I reread Phantom Tollbooth. I read just some kind of childhood escapist novels. I reread, oh, I always forget the full title, The Mixed Up Files of Mrs. about the kids who - I loved that when I was little. I loved that book when I was little. I can't remember the exact title. It's so long. I loved it. It's like Mrs. something with an F. I can look it up. Okay, great. Anyways. Should I, let's see. Let's Google. If you want. And I think. I like a mid-Google. Who doesn't love a mid? Mixed up files. It's like Mrs.

25:59Yeah. Fritz or Sally will know. It's so, okay. It's so good and it's so worth it. From the mixed up files of Mrs. Basil E. Frank Wyler. Yes. Okay, there is an F in there. That book is fantastic. And yeah, and it's granted like I went back, I guess, in time for a lot of those, but it wasn't as serious. And then I was like, who is imposing this weird rule that I have to like only read from the canon? I was like, oh, me on myself. Why? And so I started to be like, yes, after 1995, there are still like great authors who have written amazing books that will enrich my mind. And I started letting myself explore all of those and then started just, like, gobbling them up.

26:48And a couple that, like, really sort of knocked me on my ass. I read The Great Believers. I haven't. I need to. It's so good. So incredible. So heartbreaking. And I read Hearts Invisible Furies. and that book took me on such, I knew basically nothing about it when I picked it up, but the journey that it takes you on, it starts out when this guy is literally inside of his mother's stomach. Have you read it? Yeah. Oh my God. I read it two years ago. And it, I mean, yeah, it's the way I think about it is I kind of, and like, I'm going to give you like a wild theory, and you're, like, it's a hot take, but I don't know if, like, you might not agree and it might be, like, half-baked.

27:40I kind of feel like you have, like, a choose-your-fighter between A Little Life Goldfinch and Hearts Invisible Furies, like, which one resonates for you? Because they all feel very, like, Dickens, like, Charles Dickens, modern day trauma, all these things. But, like, yeah, and I love to see, like, the Hearts is the one for you. Oh, that's really interesting. But I don't know if this is like me like having been doing this for a while and thinking about these books all together. No I see what you mean. I mean I think in terms of modern fiction. Yeah like modern. Yeah. Like that's the first time I'd read what I would refer to as like like a sweeping book.

28:18I think that's the thing. Like you're like you're with someone pretty much for their entire life. Hardships, family stuff, romantic stuff, like addiction, like everything. Addiction, pain, Like those three to me like are so sweet. I mean, sweeping is the perfect word. And I think that's what caught me so off guard and also like resonated so deeply was just the journey of this man's entire life and how beautifully and unabashedly that story is told. And it I mean, that book rocked me. like finishing that book I sobbed so hard and there hadn't been a piece of literature that had like I don't know it sort of felt like it pulled my heart out of my chest yeah in a really long time I hadn't I hadn't felt that and there's so I mean it's so many years so many phases of his life I mean it's incredible and like the I don't know the the layers to that character the tracking that it takes to write a character that's that dynamic from essentially inception to death is like I mean it's such an it's such a it's such a feat the story is so beautiful in and of itself and then to like pull out to a 60 ,000 foot view and just like the artistry of that writing is so impressive.

29:54I love and I can't remember his name right now, but when they basically adopt the boy, like that is just such that tug at my heart, my heartstrings. I get it. No, it's really I feel like I read it so fast. It was just very like propulsive. And I mean, I think that's the way. Have you read Little Life as well? I haven't. It hit for me because I was 22. And I was like, had just moved to New York. And I was working in book publishing. And it was the hot book. And like, I love it. Like, I love A Little Life. It's funny. I had a writer friend of mine. I couldn't decide if I wanted to read it or not.

30:34There was like a lot of buzz around it. But a lot of people were just talking about how deeply traumatic it was. Gratuitously so. Yeah. And this writer friend of mine had just finished it. And she was like, I actually think she was like, I think it's too far. I think we as writers have a responsibility to our audience to like not put them. You shouldn't take them that far. And I think it's unfair because like people are opening their hearts and their minds to you. Like reading a book is such a vulnerable state. So you're basically like, here's my imagination. Take it where you want it to go. and she was like I think it's um I think it's too far and I was like okay I'm not gonna read it I had to do I remember again being 22 and like having a listen to like really heavy like pump up rap after reading it to like get myself out like just like completely but I think that is a strength of Hearts Invisible Puries is that like you experience the full range of human emotion but you're not completely out to sea yeah for sure yeah in a way that I really appreciated Yeah, I mean, that book rocked me, but I wasn't, I didn't feel, like, taken advantage of.

31:47And that's, I mean, it's important. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I could, I think if I read it now at 32, A Little Life, I think I would have a very different. You'd be like, no, thank you. I would just be like, oh, I don't have to, like, it just, like, so flagellate. Yeah, sure, it's not necessary. Like, for experience art. Yeah. Well, let's talk about your book. Sure. Let's just make me funny. How was the writing experience for you? It was challenging. It was really fun at times and very cathartic. But it's interesting. As an actor, there's this, I'm sure, protective function that happens when I'm working that I forget that people can consume what I've done.

32:34Oh, interesting. It's not part of the equation. That's a gift. I think it's not something I've ever done on purpose I think it's just a way my mind is like if you want to go to the places you need to go to we have to forget that this will be available for public consumption and it's much harder to do that when you write a book because the editing process is so involved and I hated it I am not precious about my writing at all I basically to my wonderful editor Meg Like, I was just like, take it, do whatever you want with it. Just don't make me look at it again. And obviously that wasn't an option.

33:15So the writing process itself was actually, like, very enjoyable. And then once we got into the process of editing, that was really challenging for me. Even now, I've been writing professionally for 10 years, and it's just, like, it's sensitive. It's just, like, a lot of feel. Like, it's just, like, do you not feel that way? No, I totally understand that. I think it was less that and more having to have my work reflected back to me. Like having or just having to maybe this is a better description. My husband always says that I shoot from the hip. Okay. Like he comes from the theater and he loves working in the theater.