Elie Wiesel: Living with an Open Heart

0:00This episode is sponsored by Aerie. If you know me, you know that my philosophy is all about looking good and feeling good every single day. And that honestly comes down to the first layer. I'm talking about bras. If your bra is digging into your shoulder or maybe it's riding up in the back or you are dying to take it off at the end of the day, then that bra is not the right fit. And what I love about Aerie is that they have 59 different sizes in really soft fabrics and really good fits. Because at the end of the day, your bra should hold you in and not hold you back. Visit Aerie.com to find the right bra and your perfect fit.

0:35You stopped waiting for permission and started building yourself, your dreams, your credit. Experian Boost could turn your on-time payments into instant FICO score gains. Every bill you paid could become proof of your power. Self-made? Absolutely. Self-funded? Experian could help you get there. Download the Experian app today. Results will vary. Not all payments are Boost eligible. Some may not see improved scores or approval odds. Not all lenders use credit information impacted by Experian Boost. See Experian.com for details.

1:07I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time. Taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. Friend is not a word I use loosely. I'm proud to call Elie Wiesel a friend for the past decade. He was born in 1928 in Siget, Transylvania, now a part of Romania. One of four children, he had two older sisters, Hilda and Beatrice, and one younger named Zipporah. In 1944, Elie was 15 when the Nazis deported him and his family to Auschwitz.

1:58By the time the camps were liberated by the Allied troops less than a year later, his mother, father, and youngest sister had all perished. After the war, Elie embarked on a new life in Paris and became a journalist. It wasn't until he turned 30 that he decided to break his silence about his experiences during the war in a book called Night. Since its publication in 1958, Night has been translated into 30 languages, has been read by millions of people. In 2006, I chose it for my book club, and I had the privilege of visiting Auschwitz with Elie Wiesel as my guide. In 2011, Elie Wiesel was rushed into emergency open heart surgery.

2:45His long road to recovery required a great deal of soul searching, which resulted in this latest book, a powerful work of art that ruminates on questions of life and death that we all have and what it really means to be human. So may I say what an honor it is to have you here, my hero, my friend, after surviving open heart surgery last year. How are you feeling? Today, much better. Today, much better. First, because I'm with you. You know how much, how close I am to you. Mm-hmm. Do you still feel that your body was ravaged by the opening of your heart? It was, because I get tired very, very quickly.

3:31Mm-hmm. I used to walk a lot. No problem. Mm-hmm. But now, if I walk, even five minutes, I get tired. Really? In 2006, you and I walked the grounds of Auschwitz together. Actually, on my 52nd birthday, that was. I remember that. What a gift I gave you. That was. It was a gift. Yeah. You had written 47 books at the time, and you said that you hadn't begun yet. Do you still feel that way now? Always. I remember hearing that and thinking. Always. Absolutely. Every day, I ask myself the same question. What have I done? Is it enough? Was it justified? I had all that I wanted to accomplish and to do.

4:14I'm not sure of anything. RONNIE ELDRIDGE Wow. I'm going to get to that, more of that in a moment, because when I read this powerful little book, Open Heart, I couldn't believe that you were still questioning that. But when we were in Poland, I remember you said that the souls who perished at Auschwitz were still there, that they listened. You know, I have in my pocket the picture of my little sister, which I've never spoken about, not even with you. The only time I cry is not when I speak about my parents, but I speak about my little sister. There, she makes me cry. How old was she? Seven. She was seven.

4:59She was seven when you went to the camp. I know. I remember walking the grounds with you and us standing there, the two of us standing there and looking at the way your sister had gone. Yeah. Why do you think it is speaking of her that still brings the tears because of a life unfulfilled, unlived? Why the children, my God, why the children? You know, the million and a half children were killed. then like that, straight from the train. Do you know what they have done to humanity? How many among them could have grown up to become scientists, physicians, poets, scholars, friends of humanity, saviors of the world?

5:57What they have done to the world? Mm-hmm. You've witnessed and written about the depths of both human cruelty and also of what we call human grace. How do you make sense of the two extremes even now at 84? That everything is possible. Everything is possible. both evil, the power of evil, which on one level I cannot understand. Why evil? Even worse, why the seduction of evil? What is there in evil that becomes so seductive to some people? You write on page 66, could it be that for God evil represents just another path leading to good? You say, for me, it is as impossible to accept Auschwitz with God as without God.

6:57But then how is one to understand his silence? I don't. You don't still. I don't. God's silence and the world's silence.

7:10God's silence, at least God can say, who are you to understand me? Yes. But the world's silence is different. I don't understand it. To this day. To this day. It's so interesting, though, because you also write that if Auschwitz did not teach the world not to be racist, then what would? Rwanda didn't. Cambodia didn't. Bosnia didn't. Are we evolving as a species from racism and those kinds of atrocities? I spoke about that. I was invited a few years ago to address the General Assembly of the United Nations. And I called my lecture, Will the World Ever Learn? Will the world ever learn? And I answered, actually, no.

7:59It will not because it hasn't. Otherwise, how is one to explain Rwanda? How is one to explain that racists are still on the planet? How is one to explain the violence? I always want to explain all that, which means they haven't learned. So do you think we will ever learn? Do you think we will as a species? As a species, I don't know. We are dealing with hundreds and thousands of years. But at least the person, the individual, will the individual learn? Will the individual learn? Those who, who, who... That's what matters. Every single human being is a unique human being. And therefore, it's so criminal to do something to that human being because he or she represents humanity.

8:48But let they change at least. Yes. Yeah, as you're speaking, I was thinking the better question is not will we as a species evolve. The better question for everybody watching is will you. Exactly. Is will you. That's exactly it. Yes. Wow. Wow. Open heart surgery. How did that act, that physical act, change you? First of all, I wasn't so sure I would make it. Yes. Another three hours, I don't think I would have been here. Really? Yeah. Was that serious? That serious. Five arteries were blocked. Five, which means all the five arteries were blocked. Wow. Wow. I love it. I'm going to read from page 21, page 21 here, where you say, Suddenly I realize that I'm in the hands of the surgeon and must face the truth.

9:51When I fall asleep, it may well be forever. Am I afraid to die? In the past, whenever I thought of death I was not frightened hadn't I lived with death even in death I love that sentence hadn't I lived with death even in death because that's what Auschwitz was that was my biggest realization I remember standing there on the snowy grounds and thinking this was a death machine it was a factory that produced death, like it was a, that death was a business. Absolutely. Death was a business. So you had lived in death. Why should I be afraid now? Were you afraid? Yes. Curious and afraid at the same time.

10:39Curious? Yes. That means what is? Curious about what would happen next, what the transition would be. What will happen? Will I die? Uh-huh. And if I die, what will it be then? and all that I have read about death and studied. But you must have thought about it, but not in that way. Not in that way. Not until you're faced with possibly this is the moment. Also, I never come so close. So close. Except during the war. Yeah. In Auschwitz, every day I was like that. Yeah. But when you're living with that kind of, living in that kind of constant state of fear, I wonder, and we've talked about this before, does a part of you go numb to it?

11:22You have to go, does a part of you go numb to it in the death camp? You mean then? No. Then. It was acceptance. It was accepting that at any moment I can. Any moment I can die. Any moment. Any moment. All I wanted really is my father for me. Yes. It was my father, my father, my father. And the two of you arguing over who should have the piece of bread. Piece of bread, exactly. He wanting you to have it. And I wanted my, trying to convince each other that I'm not hungry. I'm not hungry. Yeah. Well, that makes me, every time I see that story or read that story, it makes me want to cry because both of you are starving and each saying, I'm not hungry, you take it.

12:02Hey, it's Ashley from OWN. We're doing some outdoor renovations and I have been so excited to make some changes so that we can truly enjoy our backyard before the summer ends. A new fire pit and outdoor chairs have been at the top of the list and finding the perfect fit was an easy task thanks to Wayfair. What I love most about Wayfair is that you can find quality materials that stand up to real life. I decided to shop with Wayfair Verified, your shortcut to durable pieces hand vetted by product specialists using a 10-point quality inspection testing things like quality of materials, functionality and features, and even how long it takes to build.

12:40I couldn't be happier with our backyard transformation. We went from going outside here and there to enjoying it each and every day. Wayfair has been the perfect site to help me create a home I love without overspending. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5 % back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to Wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com. Wayfair. Every style, every home. Wayfair. Every style, every home. This episode is sponsored by Aerie. If you know me, you know that my philosophy is all about looking good and feeling good every single day.

13:23And that honestly comes down to the first layer. I'm talking about bras. If your bra is digging into your shoulder or maybe it's riding up in the back or you are dying to take it off at the end of the day, then that bra is not the right fit. And what I love about Aerie is that they have 59 different sizes in really soft fabrics and really good fits. Because at the end of the day, your bra should hold you in and not hold you back. Visit Aerie.com to find the right bra and your perfect fit.

13:53So let's get back to the hospital bed. You're lying there in the hospital bed. I suddenly realized that it's a different kind of fear than when you were in the death camps. Especially since in the meantime, they've called already. Marion, my wife, and my son. And I saw them, and I realized, ah, that is more serious than I thought. If they call them, that means it's very serious. And in truth, I was not sure that I would see them again. Wow. And that realization did what to you? Oh, I had tears in my eyes. I had my eyes. After all, it's true. I was 82, but I still had so many things to tell them and so many things to do, so many words to write, so many books to read, so many people to see, so many friends to embrace.

14:52I still have, I wasn't ready. You weren't ready. I wasn't ready. My life wasn't finished. I couldn't accept. It all happened. You say on page 34, many texts describe the beyond. Few take place in paradise. Most unfold in hell. Am I, in fact, already on the other side? If not, would I have been permitted a glimpse into the beyond? I'm lying on my hospital bed, but it is hell. My skin is ripping apart. My entire body is aflame. I see myself in hell, ruled by cruel, pitiless angels. My head filled with medieval descriptions of unimaginable punishments. I think, I know, I do know what takes place in these dreadful abysses.

15:36Now, I read this and I think, if Elie Wiesel ends up in hell, then I don't have a chance. I gotta say. You never know why one is in hell. Oh, my goodness. This thing you were describing lying on the hospital bed, skin ripping apart, body aflame, see myself in hell. What was that? Was that your imagination? Were you having an out-of-body experience? What was that? Not just imagination, but based on knowledge. Based upon knowledge. Because I have read these texts earlier, years earlier. I've read them. So they came back to me. And because they came back while I was lying there, I thought, well, maybe that's it.

16:20I only had ideas about death, images from death. You say on page 61, what does being resuscitated mean if not rediscovering one's future? Sure. All of a sudden, sure. Oh, I write about my grandchildren there, for instance, of course. Yes. So I loved when you awakened and your grandson said, Grandpa, if I see you're in pain, if I loved you more, would you have less pain? I know, he said, that you have great pain, but you know that I have great love for you. Tell me, if I love you more, do you have less pain? Oh. Extraordinary. Yeah. Extraordinary. Yeah. Extraordinary. Yeah. Did open heart surgery make you fall in love more deeply with life?

17:12With the living, first of all, of course. Much more, let's say, with Marion, my wife. We have been married for so many decades. Yeah. I was just going to say, in many ways, I think this book is like a love poem written for for Marian and also for your son and grandchildren. Oh, absolutely. It's a love poem for Marian and your grandchildren. You are absolutely right. Yeah, that's what it feels like. It's a love song. It's a love song. Yeah. So you came back loving them more intensely. Yes, because every moment, every moment was essential. When you are in the hospital, you cannot move without pain, you cannot think without fear.

17:53But every moment counts. Every second matters. Every gesture is essential to you. But you knew that. I never felt it. You never felt it. You knew it. Theoretically, I knew it. Yeah, theoretically, you knew it. Oh, I knew all the ideas I had. Yeah, yeah. So let me read from page 72. I belong to a generation that has often felt abandoned by God and betrayed by mankind. And yet I believe that we must not give up on either. We must choose between the violence of adults and the smiles of children, between the ugliness of hate and the will to oppose it, between inflicting suffering and humiliation on our fellow man and offering him the solidarity and hope he deserves or not.

18:48I know I speak from experience that even in darkness, it is possible to create light and encourage compassion. There it is. I still believe in man in spite of man. That is so beautiful. You read so beautifully. No, you write so beautifully. Really? Oh, my goodness, that is so beautiful. You probably have known one another for so many years. And finally you discover that I write beautifully.

19:22Oh, then you say, illness may diminish me, but it will not destroy me. The body is not eternal, but the idea of the soul is. The brain will be buried, but memory will survive it. What do you think now happens, now that you've had all this time to think about it, what do you now think happens when we die? Look, somehow I re-become a child. I always, childhood for me is a theme in all my work. To become a child, will I meet my parents again? I want to know that. Will I meet them again? Did you see your father when you were on that hospital bed? Absolutely. You saw him? Absolutely. I saw him. Saw him as in coming to visit you?

20:08Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I saw my father. Did you see your sister? My little sister, I cannot talk about her. I started crying. But my father, I saw him. I saw him. My father and I were so close. And because of the way he died, that he had never left me. On a different level, totally different level. When I got a Nobel Prize, huge ceremony, of course, once in a lifetime. When you are at the center of the world, the whole world looks. And I remember it was great. I had my son with me, Elisha, Marion with me. My older sister was there. Then came my turn. And all of a sudden, I looked up and I saw my father in the hall.

21:03When you were getting the Nobel Prize. I couldn't speak. I couldn't open my mouth. It took me, I think, one or two or three long, endless minutes for me to start talking. But I couldn't talk. So therefore, again, on the hospital bed, again, I saw my father. Did he speak? No, he was just there looking. When you saw your father, did you think, maybe I've gone to the other side? Exactly. I would think so. Maybe, maybe. No, I said so. I said, maybe he came to take me. Not only all those who left before me. Yeah. There I thought about my mother and my little sister. Maybe they came to take me with them.

21:53So I was very close.

21:58And in the hospital bed, it was almost reassuring. I will not be alone. They are there with me.

22:11And that is the danger usually, I think, in being so sick. It's a danger that you feel it's so good being with the dead. Why not join them? It will be a liberation. Well, yes, I've heard people speak of going to the other side and feeling that it's so comfortable and welcoming there that they don't want to come back. But for? Yeah. Really. But you did, because you had more loving to do. I had more and more things to do. More things to do. You know, I always have that feeling. Yes. That I haven't even begun. One of the things that I know you love as much as I do is teaching. Oh, yes. Because at your heart, that's who you are, a teacher.

23:02Absolutely. What do you think is, if you had to summarize the greatest offering that you've been able to give your students, what would that be? You know, sometimes they ask me, what should we take away from your classes? And a few times I came up with a formula. I'm not sure it's always good, but I said simply, look, whatever you do in life,

23:32remember, think higher and feel deeper. It cannot be bad if you do that. Think higher. Always think higher and feel deeper. And feel deeper. Life is not a feast. Life is an open hand, waiting for some other hand to enter it. Yes. Into friendship. Yes. Ultimately, the answers are so simple. Not simplistic, but so simple. So simple. It's so simple to do something with our life, but do it. Mm-hmm. So that will be with me for the rest of my life. Think higher. Feel deeper. Feel deeper. That will be with me for the rest of my life. And I know so many of you, too, really got that on the level that you've offered it.

24:25Hi, it's Ashley from OWN. Pan-Oxyl is the acne authority for all kinds of skin types. Whether you need to break the acne cycle with their maximum strength acne foaming wash with 10 % benzoyl peroxide, or something more gentle but effective, like the new Acne Gel Wash. Panoxal has you covered when you need to clear acne and prevent new breakouts. Panoxal is on a mission to help you feel like your best self, starting with your skin. With the range of products to choose from, Panoxal is here to educate you on how to clear your acne to help build confidence throughout your skincare journey. The Oil Control Moisturizer has been a game changer for me.

25:00I tend to have an oily T-zone, and I have seen significant improvements since using it. Plus, it includes broad-spectrum SPF 30 so that my skin is protected from the sun. Go to panoxal.com to find out more information, which products are right for you, and where you can buy in-store or visit the Panoxal store on Amazon. Panoxal, the acne authority.

25:22This episode is sponsored by Aerie. If you know me, you know that my philosophy is all about looking good and feeling good every single day. And that honestly comes down to the first layer. I'm talking about bras. If your bra is digging into your shoulder, or maybe it's riding up in the back, or you are dying to take it off at the end of the day, then that bra is not the right fit. And what I love about Aerie is that they have 59 different sizes in really soft fabrics and really good fits. Because at the end of the day, your bra should hold you in and not hold you back. Visit Aerie.com to find the right bra and your perfect fit.

25:59One of the other great lessons I felt inside myself when we were together at Auschwitz is how passiveness and indifference is actually worse than hatred. Absolutely. Absolutely. Can you speak to that for a moment? How being passive and indifferent is actually worse than? I have dedicated my life not only to fight evil, it's too difficult, but to fight indifference. Indifference, yes. I came out with some formula. I began saying that the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. The opposite of knowledge is not ignorance, but indifference. Indifference. The opposite of beauty is not ugliness, but indifference to beauty and to ugliness.

26:46Indifference enables everything which is bad in life. and therefore fight indifference. The idea that the victim should say that nobody cares, that hurts me. Hmm. Because we had that feeling, nobody cares. Yes, and I'm sure that every victim of war feels the same when you read the stories of Rwandans. True, absolutely. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Sure. 800 ,000 people in 100 days. Like that, like that. Like that. Like that. Nobody cared. But the memory, as you write so beautifully in Open Heart, that what remains when the brain is buried, when all is gone, is that the memory... Absolutely. The memory is stronger than anything else, strangely enough.

27:36Memory has power. And ultimately, at the end, what remains? The memory of a prayer, if not a prayer. The memory of a friendly smile, It is not a friend, but something, that memory. We work for that memory. We live for that memory. In some way, when I was reading, reading, yeah, your beautiful words. I've now discovered you're such a beautiful writer. When I was reading Open Heart, I was thinking, in some ways, the way you describe it, memory feels like spirit. It feels like the spirit of the person. It is. Yes. It is. The spirit of the person. Well, the memory combines many things. Yes. Sadness and joy, hope and despair.

28:23And ultimately, I think, what is life? Surely it is a sum of memories. But memory is more than the total sum. It's more than one plus one plus one. There's something about memory, which is always with a capital M, almost. That is why Alzheimer's is such a devastating disease. I mean, and why lying on the hospital bed, the thing you were most worried about is your mind. Is your mind. Over a few years ago, I published a novel, which was the saddest novel I have written, called The Forgotten. It's about Alzheimer's. And I compared the Alzheimer's patient to a book. Every day you tear out a page. A page, yes.

29:07And another page, and another page. at the end there is nothing but the cover covers yes that's the Alzheimer's patient yes and I was also wondering then and what happens if a whole period is forgotten yes in the whole world would have Alzheimer's then who are you who are we then who are you that is what you asked that question on the lying in the hospital bed who am I sure naturally and what was the answer I don't know yet That's exactly it. Really? Only the last moment, I think. Really, with the last breath, the last question would be, and who am I? And then if I have the answer, I wouldn't even know how to transmit it.

29:56Because God alone will know the answer. Mm-hmm. I thought it was so stunning as I was reading this and all of the producers around here, all of us, when we got together. first of all, Elie Wiesel, that you on the hospital bed, number one, would sense fear and would also have those questions still about your life. I define myself more by my questions than by my answers, because answers come and go. But questions remain. You've said that Holocaust survivors are becoming an endangered species. Indeed, you all are. Yet, you don't fear the memory of the Holocaust will ever be lost.

30:44Why? Why? I'll tell you why. Because, you know, all of us who went through that experience consider ourselves as witnesses.

30:59When the last witness will be gone, I don't want to be that one. It's too tragic. What will happen? So on one hand, you could become pessimistic. With the last witness, all the knowledge, all the experience, all the memories will be buried. Then what? So I came up with a theory, which I think is valid. To listen to a witness is to become one. To listen to a witness... Is to become a witness. So therefore, those who have listened to us, who read my books and other survivors' memoirs, we have a lot of witnesses now. And they will protect not only our past, but also their future. You know, there's a picture of us that was taken at Auschwitz where we're, I think we're facing one of the graves.

32:02Remember that picture we were? And I remember for days and days and weeks and weeks afterwards, and even still now, feeling like I bore witness to something that was... Oh, you are, absolutely. Yes, that I bore, I was able to bear witness in a way that we could then allow the world to see and experience. people that hadn't seen or known it in that way before. Therefore, I believe that that event with a capital E was of such grandeur, of such magnitude, of such depth, that it would not be forgotten. It will not be forgotten. It will hound our society and many generations to come with its fear, with its trembling, but also with its impossible hope.

32:55I have to ask you this because we spoke a couple of years ago and you had just been through a stunning experience of all the stunning things that had happened to you. But when you got the call that you had lost your entire life savings as well as$15 million dollars of the foundation that you and Marianne had worked your whole lives for because of Bernie Madoff, what was the first thing you did? I mean, I just, that's an unbelievable call to get. I remember we were out and we came home and it was almost near midnight. Telephone rang and we were frightened. Midnight. Midnight. It was Alicia. Alicia said, first of all, don't worry.

33:41Everybody's good in the family. Nothing happened, nothing. But now sit down. Sit down. This is your son. My son. And our son, he was a member, then he was a member of our board. And he actually didn't like the idea that we had placed so much money with Madoff. Because you'd placed all the money with Madoff. Yes, he said too much. And so that was a few months earlier before that. And we told him, come on, we know people who did that. We can't even give, if I told you the names, you'll be surprised. The most prestigious names in the financial world have given him the money. Why shouldn't we? He said, he's in jail.

34:22We looked at each other, and really our reaction was, we have seen worse.

34:31You and Mary. Yes, both she and I. We have seen worse. Yes, you've lived through death camps. It has touched us, but not deeply, really. So it's true, we lost everything. But for the foundation, something very beautiful happened. All of a sudden, we began receiving hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of letters and donations, small donations, from all over America. Jews and non-Jews, young and younger, pocket monies, Christmas money, Hanukkah money. That was so uplifting. I think the American people are so generous. We are a generous people. No other nation has given so much to charity, to philanthropy as the American people.

35:25We rise up in a crisis. We do. Automatically, yes. We do. So we received hundreds of them every week, and that helped us. But you didn't have to change the way you lived because there were people who had given him money and lost their homes, so you didn't lose your home. We did not. Yeah. But look, we had to change our lifestyle right away, immediately. Really? But not much. Look, I teach. I have a good salary. And I give lectures and I write books. So it didn't change our life anyway. It didn't make me more pessimistic. It didn't make me more desperate. and even not more skeptical about the otherness of the other.

36:14The otherness of the other. Meaning other people? Meaning Badoff. Yeah. There was some otherness in him, of course, which I don't want to accept as part of human nature, that he could do that. That he could do that. He could do that. You say at the end of the book, open heart, It might seem that I am not the man I was before June 16, 2011, but on a level close to the absolutes that are life and death, I have remained the same. What is different is that I now know that every moment is a new beginning, every handshake a promise. I know that every quest implicates the other, just as every word can become prayer.

37:05If life is not a celebration, why remember it? If life, mine or that of my fellow man, is not an offering to the other, what are we doing on this earth?

37:22That's just the most beautiful. True. True. It is true what I said. Because ultimately, I mean, I see that too. I see the show. I see this network as an offering. I see, that's why I said, ask the question, what is the offering you've given to your students? I see that our role in humanity as each individual is to give an offering to each other. It's also to create a world with friends, friendship. To me, friendship is like a religion. We couldn't live without it. Perhaps we could live for a while without love, but not without friendship. We could not. Because isn't friendship a form of love? Yes, but a different kind.

38:12Different kind, yeah. Love is demanding in the best sense of the word. Friendship is not. What is it you most want the world to know?

38:26that if there is one person on the planet who still is suffering from loneliness and from pain or despair and we don't know about it or we don't want to know about it and something is wrong with the world and each of us through our wanting to know and wanting the other person whomever that is, to not to feel alone. That's exactly it. I cannot cure everybody. I cannot help everybody. But to tell the lonely person that I am not far or different from that lonely person, that I am with him or her, that's all I think we can do and we should do, therefore. That's the great spiritual path. Yes. I love you, Elie Vizal I love you No, I love you more Okay, let's call it a little bit That's beautiful, thank you This is a love poem and that interview was a prayer, thank you I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe, rate and review this podcast.

39:50Join me next week for another Super Soul Conversation. Thank you for listening.

40:00You stopped waiting for permission and started building yourself, your dreams, your credit. Experian Boost could turn your on-time payments into instant FICO score gains. Every bill you paid could become proof of your power. Self-made? Absolutely. Self-funded? Experian could help you get there. Download the Experian app today. Results will vary. Not all payments are Boost eligible. Some may not see improved scores or approval odds. Not all lenders use credit information impacted by Experian Boost. See Experian.com for details. This episode is sponsored by Aerie. If you know me, you know that my philosophy is all about looking good and feeling good every single day.

40:37And that honestly comes down to the first layer. I'm talking about bras. If your bra is digging into your shoulder, or maybe it's riding up in the back, or you are dying to take it off at the end of the day, then that bra is not the right fit. And what I love about Aerie is that they have 59 different sizes in really soft fabrics and really good fits. Because at the end of the day, your bra should hold you in and not hold you back. Visit Aerie.com to find the right bra and your perfect fit.