Jeff Weiner: Leading with Compassion

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1:14Hey there, podcast listeners. I have exciting news. We're launching a brand new podcast in addition to Super Soul Conversations. It's called Oprah's Masterclass. The Masterclass Podcast allows you to hear the greatest life lessons from some of the most respected and renowned actors, musicians, public figures, and athletes in their own words. Listen as Jay-Z, Justin Timberlake, Ellen DeGeneres, Shaquille O 'Neal, Reba McIntyre, Dwayne Johnson, and Jane Fonda, just to name a few, share what they've learned about life and their own insights into their personal stories and challenges. I believe that there's something to be learned from every experience and everyone can use their life as a class.

1:58Oprah's Masterclass Podcast is available now on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe now and listen free. Go to applepodcast.com slash Oprah's Masterclass. I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time. Taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. For many of us, most of our waking hours are spent working. Imagine if your job or your company became a more compassionate and mindful place to work. It's not every day we turn to CEOs for this kind of guidance, but LinkedIn's Jeff Weiner is a super soul kind of executive.

2:51LinkedIn is the world's largest professional networking site. Their mission is to connect companies with millions in the global workforce. I believe that Jeff's vision for leading nearly 10 ,000 employees with intention, purpose and compassion can change the way we all live and work together. The thing that impresses me the most about our guest today, and I was impressed before I learned this, but I wanted you on the show originally because you know that we spend a lot of time talking about spirituality and what it means in the world. And for me, it's not just understanding what it means, but being able to apply that in your own life.

3:34and I thought that you are one of the great CEOs of our time. That was my personal opinion and that's why I wanted to sit down and talk to you about your ideas on compassionate leadership. So in doing research for the show, I came across these stats from Glassdoor.com. They did a survey of CEOs in the United States and you received the highest rating with a 100 % approval rating, which means they're surveying your employees anonymously and ask them about work-life balance, about pay, about how the CEO of the company actually leads the company. And 100 % of the people who were interviewed and responded said you were terrific.

4:26I guess, yeah. Yeah. I mean, how does that happen? That does not happen by accident. I think it's as much a testament to the company and our leadership team as it is anything else. We try to walk the walk and not just talk the talk. We try to lead compassionately. We're trying to connect with folks. We try to put ourselves in the shoes of others and understand what they're going through, what they're experiencing. And those things make a difference. When you can forge that kind of a connection within a work environment, you know, that's not necessarily the norm. And I think people appreciate that.

5:00I know you once told Fortune magazine the values are the first principles you use to make day-to-day decisions. So what are some of those core values? So we have six core values at LinkedIn. So the first is that our members come first. Second is relationships matter, which makes a lot of sense given that we're a social platform within a professional context. The third is to be open, honest, and constructive, not just to manifest transparency and not just to be open because that can create a lot of conflict and confrontation. So when we are encouraging people to be open about what's on their minds, we're encouraging them to do so in a constructive way that lifts the dialogue, that lifts people up rather than tears them down.

5:40We demand excellence. We want to make sure that we're achieving results, if not exceeding our own expectations. We expect people to act like owners. We think that's really important. Wow. And we want our team to take intelligent risks. So those are the six core values of the company. Wow. And everybody knows that. Yeah. And this comes back to this idea of not just talking the talk, but walking the walk. And I think a lot of companies and a lot of leadership make the mistake of getting up on stage and rolling out these values and rolling out the culture of an organization. And people in the audience are hearing it, recognizing that that's not how that team leads.

6:20Yeah, you talk that, but that's not how you treat me. That's right. And there's no faster way. I see, and that's not what I feel every day. That's exactly right. And when it comes to culture, when it comes to values, when it comes to reinforcing this stuff, it begins with the leadership, and then it extends to how you're developing your talent, how you're evaluating performance, and just constantly reinforcing it. Yes. And when you can do that, it can become an incredible competitive advantage. Well, you didn't always have this, right? You didn't always have it. Let me tell you why. Because there was an article about you, about your evolution, that Fortune magazine did a while back.

6:54And you were described as someone who, quote, wielded your fierce intelligence like a blunt instrument. And when you read that, you felt what? I think when I was a younger executive, I had a tendency to make the same mistake that a lot of inexperienced executives make, which is projecting onto your team the way you do things and expecting them to do things the way you do them. and when there's any kind of dissonance when someone's not doing things the way you expect them to be done you can get frustrated yeah and you express that frustration and it's a mistake and what's far more effective is to and this in part is where managing compassionately comes from is to get out of your own head to recognize that not everyone has the same strengths yeah to recognize that once you understand what motivates somebody, what they're good at, where they find challenges, what they're fearful of, you can get the most out of that person.

7:54And it was through an interaction I had with my own manager where I was expressing to that person that I felt they were not managing compassionately, that I realized I was actually doing the exact same thing with someone on my team. So tell me that. I think this is good. This is a good story. You're in a meeting, and somebody is being a jerk and constantly being passive-aggressive. Yeah. We would get together, a team of leaders, as part of the staff meeting for this individual. And there was a colleague of mine, a member of this person's team, who was very effective in their role, but they weren't doing the job the way our manager wanted them to do the job.

8:34Yeah. And so it would frustrate them to no end, and they would make jokes at this person's expense. they would undermine them in front of the team. And I remember thinking, this is not good for the individual. It wasn't good for my boss, and it wasn't good for us as a team. So we would have one-on-ones every now and again, and I said, hey, I've got to give you some feedback. I said, the next time you feel like making a joke at this person's expense or you get frustrated and let them know in front of all of us, you should go find a mirror and express that frustration to yourself. Wow. because you're the reason they're in the role.

9:10And if you don't like the way they're doing their job, take the time to coach them. And if they're not capable of doing the job the way you believe they should be able to do the job, find another role for them. And if that's not going to work out, then transition them and do it in a way that's compassionate and constructive. And a couple of weeks later, we reconvened. And he said, I have to thank you for your advice. And as he's saying this, I realized I was doing the exact same thing to someone on my team, the exact same thing. And so in that moment, I kind of vowed that as long as I was going to be responsible for managing other people, I was going to aspire to manage compassionately, where I wasn't necessarily trying to have them do things the way I did them, but I was putting myself in their shoes, understanding what motivated them, their hopes, their dreams, their fears, and try to lead as effectively as possible.

9:59So compassionate leadership is really like getting to the heart and soul of what a company really is. Compassionate leadership begins with the connection between individuals. And a company is comprised of people. That's all it is. So when you are building upon a foundation of compassionate management, ultimately what the company is about, its vision, its mission, its culture, its values, all of that stuff is manifested in the way that its leadership is leading, in the way the managers are managing. So in that regard, yes, managing compassionately becomes a bedrock of an organization. Is that your spiritual practice?

10:39It's part of my spiritual practice. I think, you know, when you talk about spiritual practice, I think about mindfulness. I think about self-awareness, being in the moment as it pertains to me. and then I think about how that extends to other people through the way I connect and practicing compassion. In the summer months, our home can get very warm. We've been in the market for a new ceiling fan and I found the perfect one on Wayfair. I wanted a fan that is super functional while also being incredibly chic and my new fan by Mercer 41 checks all the boxes. I searched far and wide and Wayfair had the best deal and could deliver to me most efficiently.

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12:51You know, I always believe that everything starts with your whole life actually starts with you. And it starts with your ability to be the most you you can be. The more authentic you can be, the more actual real power you have in the world. So in order to be a good leader, first and foremost, you've got to be able to do that for yourself. What is the work you did to transform yourself? So some of it was less work and more very good fortune in meeting my wife. Yeah. So that was a complete game changer. So I lacked any semblance of balance before I met my wife. I put everything I had into work and getting the job done.

13:34And I was very intense. and it was not an optimal way to... You were a blunt force. I was a blunt force. I guess that's one way of putting it. But it's not just with regard to management. I mean, I look back on that part of my life and just with regard to being happy, just with regard to understanding what it was I was trying to accomplish. But you were achieving. Yeah, but I also recognized, at least I had the awareness to recognize that if I maintain that path for five more years, ten more years, I might be successful through conventional definition of success, but I wasn't going to be happy.

14:11I knew that. I had the wherewithal to understand that. Wow. How old were you when you knew that? I was 33. And the reason I know that is because it was a year before I met my wife. And meeting Lisette then did what? I mean, where to begin? So Lisette, as you know, has a very different perspective on life. I know Lisette. And she's quite extraordinary. And she started to emphasize things that I was not nearly focused enough on. I mean, simple to you and myself now. These are kind of so fundamental. But being happy, being kind. I mean, these were not things I was spending a lot of energy thinking about or manifesting.

14:53You know, just being with her, you know, having that kind of relationship, being so close to someone, being able to connect with someone, being able to share with someone. And it's a complete game changer. And that becomes a foundation that you can start to do the kind of work that I think you were asking about. And so that began, you know, for lack of a better term, a journey. Okay. So meeting Lisette, if I'm getting this correct, this is really good.

15:23actually inspired this transformation. You wanted to be a better person after being with her. Yeah, it's like the Jerry Maguire line. Yeah, it's just, yeah. You wanted to be a better person. Yeah, undoubtedly. For yourself, for her, and for your company. First for her. Yeah. I wanted to be better for her. And then the more you're practicing that, the more you recognize those are qualities that one should be pursuing, regardless of any relationship. I just wanted to say, Jeff and I have become friends because of Lisette. We had dinner here the other night, and you toasted all the friends at the table.

16:01And after the toast of Lisette, I thought I was going to start falling in my soup, literally, when you were talking to Lisette, because I was looking at her face, looking at you. I could cry right now. and you were talking about exactly what some of what you're sharing here with us now about the meaning that that she brought to your life yeah it is really special and i'm it is a it is a spiritual partnership undoubtedly and i'm incredibly appreciative for it and so to your point earlier being with her made you more compassionate oh yeah it made me more connected It made me more mindful. That's where that really began, at least the practice of it.

16:42I started understanding compassion as a concept several years prior. It was probably around 30. I read a book called The Art of Happiness. Dalai Lama. And Dalai Lama's practices and keys to happiness. And he talks about compassion, the difference between empathy and compassion. And that's where I started to learn more about him. There's a hierarchy of needs that I think are absolutely essential to be able to practice things like compassion and mindfulness. they're the basic building blocks that so many of us have a tendency to completely overlook. Getting a good night's sleep, eating properly, and working out.

17:15And then you start building up from there. Yeah, that's what I wanted to talk about. You transformed yourself and then used that transformation to lead your company forward. Yeah, I mean, I hadn't thought about it in those terms. With regard to leading the company, I tried to draw upon my own experiences. the things that I went through where I was being managed, the folks that were leading companies that I was in. And I always try to pay very close attention to what resonated, what was working, what wasn't working. And, you know, I know it's become somewhat of a cliche at this point, but the most valuable lessons I've ever learned are what not to do.

17:52The truth is, in businesses, sometimes you're faced with difficult decisions. and one of the things that you say is that one of the biggest mistakes that managers make is leaving people in positions that they're no longer suited for so compassion sometimes is being able to transition somebody even if it means transitioning them out of the company that's exactly right yeah so the the most important lesson I've learned in the role of CEO is to not leave the pitcher in the game for too long oh I love that I love that so it's a sports metaphor and you know insofar as when you're watching a baseball game sometimes you'll see a star pitcher on the mound they're having a great game and as the the game continues to to go on you can see their arms starting to tire and you can see the opposing team starting to hit the ball a little bit harder inevitably the manager comes out of the bullpen or out of the dugout rather and will say uh how you doing and those star pitchers always will reply i'm doing fine sit down you know leave me and I'll get this done.

18:50I got this. Yeah. Because nobody is ever going to say, I don't got it if you want to keep your job, right? 20 years of managing people, not once has anyone ever come to me and said they couldn't do their job. Not a single time. It's not their job. That's the role of the manager. And so to your point about compassion, the most often asked question I get with regard to managing compassionately is what to do in exactly the situation because people just assume compassion means not making hard decisions, not making hard choices, not transitioning people out of roles. And it's the exact opposite. The least compassionate thing you can do when someone is not equipped to be doing what they're doing is to leave them in that role.

19:27And all you need to do is watch and observe that person, and you'll understand how little compassion is being shown to that individual because of the body language, the slumping of the shoulders, the fact that their voice, their inflection starts to become very... They lose confidence. They're losing self-esteem by the day. They're taking that back to their teens. People are seeing that you're leaving them in the role, which is undermining your ability to lead. And the worst of all is that individual that no longer believes in themselves, that's losing their sense of self. They take that energy home.

19:58They're taking that energy home to their families. They also then build up resentment towards you, towards everybody else around. It's a compounded problem. It's a vicious cycle on every front. And the most compassionate thing you can do in that situation is take that person aside and say, this isn't working out right now. Here's where the bar is set. I'm gonna do everything I can to get you to the bar or above the bar and we're going to set a timetable Or let you go, but at first if that person's in the role. There's probably a reason you put them in that role Yeah, so there may be the potential for them to be able to take coaching and learn how to do the job more effectively It's a question of how much time you're gonna give them and how much work you're willing to put in Okay, so how do you fire compassionately?

20:43It starts with conviction that it's the right thing to do. Yeah. And I can't tell you the number of times that that situation will occur, and the manager who's conveying the bad news, whether it's a firing or something else, is looking down at their shoes. They're looking away. And the message you're sending the person on the receiving end is, this is not the right thing to be doing. And the person that's receiving the bad news is looking for every conceivable excuse to challenge the decision. So it starts with conviction. You have to know it's the right thing to do, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

21:17And if you don't, you better take the time to get there before you step in the room with the person. Yes. Now, and I know that you think that mindfulness and compassion at work is not just a new approach for transformation, but they really are necessary in today's world to succeed. Yeah, it's all about people. You know, the raw materials of the vast, vast majority of companies today, it's people. And an organization is only going to be as good as its talent. And you want to be able to get the most out of people. You want to facilitate the way in which people are expressing ideas. It benefits the entire ecosystem.

21:54And part of what works for this is that you release control and empower your employees to do what they can do best. Correct? Yeah, absolutely. And you know that there's so many people in positions of leadership, bosses, who cannot relinquish or release the control. Why is that? Most organizations traditionally are based on hierarchical structures. Yeah. And you have someone at the top, and that someone at the top is not necessarily leading the way I would define leading. They're managing. And to me, there's a fundamental difference. So management is telling somebody what to do. Leadership is inspiring them to do it.

22:29Yeah. And inspiration for me comes from three areas, three places. It's the clarity of one's vision, the courage of one's conviction, and the ability to effectively communicate both of those things. And historically, I'm not sure that organizations took the time to cultivate and develop those practices. It was more about this is the objective. You're going to get this done. And that's not the way to get the most out of somebody. Okay. This is great when everything is going well, when you're on top and the stocks are soaring and you're on the cover of all the magazines. And every company at some point hits a low spot.

23:09What happens when you hit a low patch? Yeah. First of all, that's absolutely right. It is inevitable. And the great companies are those that figure out how to go above that wall, around that wall, or through that wall. And that's how you build something that lasts. That's how you build something great over time. And so to your point about it's easy to manage compassionately when things are going well, but it's also easy to manage compassionately when you like the people that you're working with. And so that's another of the most frequently asked questions I get. How do you manage compassionately when you don't like the person?

23:41And my response there is that compassion is not conditional. It matters the most when you don't have a natural connection with the person. And that's why most of us have to aspire to manage compassionately, because that's challenging to do. So when circumstances are challenging, when the company's going through difficult times, you need to make sure that you're there for the people who haven't experienced that before, particularly more junior members of the team who feel like, what's going on? And are we going to be able to play through this? And that's when compassion matters the most. Is your kid's birthday coming up?

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25:26So we talk a lot on this show about ego. And ego, as you know, plays a whole big role in all of our lives and especially at work. So you've said that our ego makes it difficult to see a situation through another person's lenses. Is it actually possible to have your ego and still lead with compassion? Are you always having to put your ego down in order to lead with compassion? It's definitely possible. The mistake I think some people make is confusing egocentrism with ego... Maniacal. That's right. Yeah. That's exactly right. Because we are an egocentric... We got it. Human beings. By nature, we are all egocentric.

26:04That's right. We all see the world through our own lens. It helps us survive. Yes. When that gets taken to an end state, when that gets taken to an extreme and it becomes all about us, You know, you become egomaniacal, you become narcissistic, and you fail to see the world through other people's perspectives. So the act of managing compassionately is just becoming a spectator to your own thoughts, becoming a spectator to your own view of the world, putting yourself in the other person's shoes to understand what they're going through, what they're experiencing, what motivates them. And you can still have an ego while you do that.

26:39But it does require you to step outside of yourself. How do you handle, because as we know, great success comes with even greater power and influence. So how do you handle the ego traps and the power traps that come with running a multi-billion dollar company? I mean, really. Yeah, you make sure you experience some failure. And if that doesn't humble you, I don't know what is, what's going to humble you. So when you have those kinds of experiences, you realize how at times fleeting success can be, at least traditional measures of success. You realize to some extent how beyond your control it is, and you invest less in it in terms of the way you define yourself.

27:25Success in terms of achieving objectives, in terms of manifesting a mission, in terms of manifesting a vision, that's all good, especially if what you can do can create good in the world. That's fantastic. But to the extent you start to define yourself through traditional measures of success to the extent that's your source of self-esteem You are destined to be unhappy because you cannot control it. It will be beyond your control There's a whole host of things that people invest themselves in that are beyond their control There are people that define their sense of self through their physical appearance or their physical capabilities, and the ravages of age will take care of that.

28:05There are people that define their sense of self through their titles, their role within an organization. That may not last. There are those that define their sense of self through socioeconomic status or wealth. I mean, we live in volatile times. The one thing, at least for me, that I believe is sustainable in terms of where you derive happiness and your self-esteem is the way you treat other people. That you can control. No one can take that away from you. How do you define success then? For me, I have a personal vision statement. It's true north. It's the dream. It's there to inspire. And for me, it's to expand the world's collective wisdom and compassion.

28:46So the more I can manifest that, I think that's one source of happiness. My family is a tremendous source of happiness. being good to other people, being loving and compassionate. What are the things, I love you have your matrix for the kind of person you want to work with. And it's three things. The kind of person who. People who dream big, get done, and know how to have fun. I don't think you can say. Get stuff done. Yeah. So one of the things that I think that has propelled you to be this transformative leader is that you learned how to embrace Ray Chambers' principles of happiness. So first tell everybody, Ray Chambers is a friend of yours.

29:34Yeah, so Ray is a mentor and one of the most extraordinary people I know. And Ray kind of revolutionized the idea of a leveraged buyout on Wall Street in the early 80s. Had incredible success. And around 87, he decided he was going to give it all up. And he wanted to pursue happiness. And in his pursuit of happiness and spending time with philosophers and Buddhist monks, one of the things he concluded was that he needed to be of service to others. And so he began a life of extraordinary philanthropy. And one of the conclusions he came to was that there are five keys to happiness. The first is being in the moment.

30:17The second is that it's better to be loving than to be right. The third is that you should be a spectator to your own thoughts, especially when you become emotional, which is fundamental to compassion. The fourth is to be grateful for at least one thing every day. And the fifth is to be of service to others, to help others every chance you get. Are you a spectator to your own thoughts? I try. That's one of the most important building blocks towards managing compassion. Why is it? Why is it so? Because that's kind of the foe of compassion is when you get too caught up in your own thoughts, too caught up in your own emotions.

30:54You know, take a traditional workplace and there's going to be all kinds of arguments and debates and frustrations that are expressed. And in that moment, you need to step outside of yourself and understand what exactly is going on. What's triggering you? What's triggering the other person? There's a whole litany of reasons they may be acting the way they're acting. and in order to get down to that, you have to step outside of yourself. You have to step outside of your own frustration, your own anger and in those moments, you can get the clarity to understand what's going on and it's a complete game changer in the way you interact with other people.

31:30It's not just in the workplace, it's in life. Yeah. You know what I'm most excited about? I'm most excited about the next level for you because, what was it, the 90s I did Jon Kabat-Zinn who sort of is the founder of the mindfulness movement. and now mindfulness is taught in multiple schools across the country, in hospitals, in prisons, and so forth. What I long for is the day that compassion is a part of the curriculum, and I believe you're going to be the force that does it. That's, you know, whether or not I'm the force, the goal is to make sure that compassion is taught in every school. Yeah.

32:08Every school in the country, it is as important as reading, it's as important as math. A friend of mine recently corrected me and said it's more important because it's the foundation upon which all the other learning should be taking place. It's how you're going to change humanity. Yeah. Once people understand the definition of compassion, I think they begin to manifest it. And it's hard not to understand it and want to practice it. There's just the only goodness that accrues. It's the ultimate spiritual law, literally. It is what every single religion has in common. And it's loving your brother as yourself or seeing your brother as yourself.

32:47Yeah. It's all about connections. It's all about being more loving, being kind. And to your point, it is the foundation upon which virtually all religions and all communities are based, is compassion. Yeah. And you've brought that to the workforce. Well, trying. Trying to do our part. Okay. Finish this sentence. I believe. I believe in the power of expanding the world's collective wisdom and compassion. And I am most proud of? I'm most proud of the fact that I look forward to going to work every day and I look forward to coming home every night. That's it. That's it. Can't beat that. Look forward to getting up, believe it.

33:31Look forward to coming home. That's amazing. That's great. I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Join me next week for another Super Soul conversation. Thank you for listening.

34:00Is your kid's birthday coming up? Don't stress the prep. The Party Shop at Michael's is your one-stop shop for everything from Bluey to rodeo. Transform your space into a birthday wonderland with dream-worthy tablescapes and decor starting at$0.99. Plus, get free helium inflation on select balloon styles. Whether you're crafting a one-of-a-kind bash or grabbing the essentials, Michaels has everything to make their big day legendary. Shop now and order ahead for delivery or in-store pickup. Michaels, everything to celebrate anything. Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad, and I want to let you know that if you want the newest and hottest beauty products, you have to go to Sephora.

34:39I'm obsessed with the One Size Liquid Blotting Paper Spray. It's the first of its kind blotting spray that mattifies for up to eight hours. It's unreal. There's also the Summer Friday Shade Drops SPF 50, which basically lives in my bag at this point. Oh, and the Kayali Eden Plush Pear smells so good. It's sweet, warm, and addictive. Like, people literally stop me and ask what perfume I'm wearing, which you know I love. So if you want the makeup, skincare, hair, and fragrance products everyone's about to be obsessed with, shop only at Sephora.