Super Soul Special: Oprah at the Apollo, Part 1: Jordan Peele, Salma Hayek Pinault and Trevor Noah

0:00I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time. Taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. Hello, New York! From the legendary Apollo Theater at Harlem, Three powerful voices who are killing it, using their talent and their truth to light up the world. Three-time Oscar nominee for his first film, the blockbuster Get Out, writer, producer, and director Jordan Peele. Oscar-nominated actress, producer, and co-founder of the Time's Up movement, Salma Hayek-Pinot.

0:52And host of The Daily Show, comedian, and New York Times best-selling author of Born a Crime, Trevor Noah. First up, Jordan Peele. Oscar watchers, I think this is his year.

1:10First of all, I just got to say, I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of you. Thank you.

1:19And the reason I am is because that was a bodacious thing. You wrote and directed, and I just think to have the courage, first of all, a lot of people have a vision and an idea, but to have the courage to follow that through and then to walk into a studio meeting and say, this is the movie I want to do. Were you a little scarred? I mean, it's so many, there were years put into conceiving the movie, but I didn't necessarily ever realize that it would actually ever get made. So I pitched it and I said, let's make this movie. Yeah, it was kind of like a, uh-oh. Uh-oh. Now we're in. We're in. Let's do it.

2:02So when you say it was years in conceiving it, I love this. I love the way writers' minds work. Did you get little pieces of it and then write that down and then other pieces of it and write that down? Yeah, it was kind of like that. It was a hobby for me. It was this idea of designing my favorite movie that I'd never seen before. Yes. That is so interesting because I remember interviewing Toni Morrison years ago and she said that she started writing because there wasn't a novel that she felt really spoke to the African-American experience in a way that she wanted to read. So she started writing the novels that she wanted to read.

2:41Right. I was the first audience for this film. And it really was about getting to go home at the end of a day. Some of this time I was working on Key & Peele and getting to go home and watching my favorite movie in my mind. And so that was, you know, many years. Okay, so all of this talk about it, and now Oscar nominations. Where were you when the nominations were being read? I was at my house. Yes. I very quickly started crying. Really?

3:15Okay, so, because you all know, he got Best Screenplay, Best Director, Best Picture. Best Picture.

3:27The first African American to be honored with the trifecta there. Yes. So, screenplay comes up. You're happy? I'm happy. When I found out that Daniel Kaluuya, the lead in the film, got nominated. Yes, I know. That's when tears started streaming down my face. Because you're crying for him. For him. Yeah. And you've said that Chris's character in Get Out actually represents the fear and anxiety that we all have sometimes when you're an outsider. When you were growing up, did you feel like an outsider? Yeah, you know, I had a really amazing support system, amazing family, single mother. So I got so much support.

4:10At the same time, I did feel like an outsider. I identified with the outsider. It's hard to know exactly why, but I think part of it is connected to racial identity. You know, I'm mixed. And there's part of the mixed experience you, especially early on, it's kind of confusing. You're trying to figure it out? And, well, the world's trying to figure you out. Yeah. The world is trying to put you in a box. A box. They're literally, you know, asking you to check on the standardized tests when you're six years old, what are you? White, African-American, other. So in the beginning of my school tenure, I put other down.

4:49As I grew up and as I got older in elementary school, I began to identify as African-American, which was comforting to me because it's what I am. I'm a black man. And, yeah. You get applause for being a black man. Well, you know, it's, you know, but the whole thing set me on this trajectory of exploring and examining what it means to be black in this country. and uh how did you event at some point go to your mom your white mom and say mom i'm a black man you know i i don't think it ever was that dramatic she probably would have uh giggled at the man part i i'm guessing mom i'm a black man i'm a black man mom you know well you know she I feel like the first movie I ever saw in a theater very young was a revival of Showboat.

5:51A good amount of my African-American experiences growing up were through cinema. So the movie Glory was very meaningful to me. The one tear. Yeah. Actually, that moment of Denzel Washington with this defiant tear is, I think, connected to the now iconic image of Daniel has resonated. Ah. Ah, well now. Yeah. There's a connection. There's a connection. Okay. I think there is a sort of deficit or a lack of images in pop culture where black men are allowed to be vulnerable. Where we're allowed to be afraid. Where we're allowed to show fear. And, you know, the fact that everyone latched onto that, to me, is also connected to the fact that our fears, the injustices surrounding blackness in America aren't being heard.

6:47They're being silenced by a sort of systemic failure. And what you did with this film was allowed audiences to experience rooting for the black guy, even though normally, under other circumstances, they might have not been rooting for the black guy who ends up doing what he does in the film. For example, I want to show the party scene, a clip of the party scene. Gordon was a professional golfer for years. Oh, you kidding? Well, I can't quite swing the hips like I used to, though. But I do know Tiger.

7:24Interesting, because anybody who's grown up black in a lot of white situations... When I was in Milwaukee, I went to school, and I was one of two black kids in the school at the time. And every time I'd get taken to somebody's home, they would always ask me, their parents would always ask me if I knew Sammy Davis Jr. and after a while I just started saying yeah he's my cousin

7:53because I didn't want to disappoint them I didn't know Sammy Davis Jr. and Gail who grew up in Turkey her father was working overseas and she told everybody Martin Luther King was her uncle Uncle Marty no Uncle Marty Uncle Marty He got in trouble because her father came to school one day and the teacher said, oh, we're so sorry about what's happened to your brother.

8:23Being jailed. He's like, you talking about my brother Alfred? No, no, no. Anyway, so everybody has been in that experience, right? Did that come from a real experience? Yeah, and this is, I think, part of the experience. I had never seen portrayed in film. Nope. And there was this feeling I had while, you know, coming up with this that all I know is there are horror movies that explore every real world horror. Yeah. Except this one. But the fact that the modern African-American experience and our fears and our horrors and our uncomfortable interactions in the form of that expression to me just meant there's a missing piece of the conversation here.

9:06And I think what happened with this scene, where the microaggressions are kind of the horror and the creepy thing, is, you know, black people would say, you know, look, hey, finally. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. That's my life story. Yeah. And the white people would say, what? Have there been different responses? Sometimes I get like, yeah, it made me wonder, have I done that? But your Barack Obama impression is really good. I'm like, you just did it. Yeah. No, but, yeah, there's a little introspection going on. But I think the power of story and why this movie ended up being important is because when you have an actor like Daniel, when you have a character that...

9:53The audience becomes the protagonist. So this was a way for, I think, a lot of white people to experience the world through the black perspective. White people watching the movie don't identify with the white people in the movie. You identify with Chris. Which means you've already done something really important and valuable. Yes. It's so interesting because I remember reading this article as I was ending my show, and it was an article in Vanity Fair about Michael Jackson, and his friends were commenting, saying, he did Thriller and then spent the rest of his life chasing Thriller. so how do you now avoid the trap of your first film first directing first written becomes this phenomenon now that you mention it i don't know i don't you know i i i will continue to make the movies that i want to see first.

10:58If I want to see it, I have to have trust that other people will. And if they don't, I have to accept that that's what it is. But for me, the biggest reward of all of this for me, besides this right here, has always been the fact that I get to make another movie. So I don't want to let that become an unpleasant experience because this one was so successful. Yeah, so you don't feel the pressure at all? No. I don't feel it too extreme pressure. Because I think that what you just said is the value of why we're having these conversations. You do the work that you want to see. And if it's coming out of a true space for you, and that's first and foremost, and then if other people relate to it, that's fine if they don't.

11:50Have you been able to enjoy it thus far? Have you been able to take it in? Have you been able to receive how the audiences have received you and this film? Have you been able to receive it? It's easier sometimes than it is others. Because there's a bit of attention that almost feels unnatural. Do you know anything about that? I love it. Part of it feels unnatural. Part of it makes you grapple with this idea of like, okay, don't watch your own jump shot here. Don't get too, don't drink your own Kool-Aid. And so it's hard when there's, you know, there's this... Well, let me just say something to you, because I've been through a little bit of this.

12:30And I would say the fact that you are at a space in your own heart where you can say to your ego, don't believe your own jump shot, means you're already there. Just to be able to ask the question means you're grounded enough to know. Thank you. You're doing all right. Thank you. You're doing all right. And I just wish you the very best. We're all going to be rooting for Get Out.

12:59Thank you so much for this time in the conversation. Amazing. Great. You're there. I love you. You're on me too. Welcome, Selma Hayek-Pinot. So good to see you again. So good to see you too. Now, what is interesting, as I was saying to the audience, you actually have been fighting for women before the whole Me Too movement, before Time's Up. You've been doing it in your own way. You've been doing it internally and externally. For over 20 years. Yeah. And so what was the thunderbolt moment for you that caused you to say, I must stand up, number one, for myself and also do that for other women? How did women's rights become a calling?

13:44I think that just by observing the situation of the world, not just one country, and noticing that always we had it harder, and we really did have it harder. And I think the one thing that moved me the most was the thought of mothers. How hard it is to be a mother and have children and have less opportunities and be constantly judged. So I started with children and mothers, and then I became really passionate about domestic violence because I think this is where everything starts, the cycle of violence in the world starts at home. Well, we have seen how the Harvey Weinstein scandal has actually allowed this conversation about violence against women, sexual harassment against women in particular become the catalyst for bringing those issues to the forefront.

14:44What do you think happened that this became the tipping point? Why was this the right time for a tipping point? This is a very loaded question. Yeah. We could do the whole thing on this because it's very important. Yes. I think that sometimes we underestimate our efforts, everybody's efforts, and the power that it has for change. The only reason that this is working right now, it's not only because the women we spoke out but it's also because everybody listen and I think that what happens is that we start making changes and we don't see the results and we think it the change is not happening humans are slow to change right but this is something we fear the most yes yeah what What I realized was happening is that the Harvey scandal triggered within a lot of other people who had experienced sexual violation, sexual harassment from other people.

15:57It triggered it even though it had not come from Harvey. But for you, who had had a previous experience of violation by Harvey Weinstein, what did it trigger in you when you first heard about the scandal? They contacted me to be a part of this, the first story. The first story. The New York Times. The New York Times. Already by this contact, it was all this turmoil. So already I started crying when they asked me. Yeah. And I ended up not doing it. And then I felt ashamed that I was a coward, that I've been working, you know, supporting women for two decades and then I didn't come up I was a coward I thought of all these different things including my child I don't want to talk about it but I was also you know what was the one thing I was the most ashamed because shame it's a cycle of shame you're ashamed of one thing and it leads you to another shame and another shame and another shame that I was pretending everything was okay so I had been around Harvey acting like everything it's okay And I didn't tell my husband.

17:10I only told him, oh, he's such a bully. He was such a bully. But by now, Harvey, he had a lot of respect for me. I earned it with blood. But he did. So I was able to let go and move on. And so... So you were able to let go of having feeling violated or having been violated by him before. Do you feel comfortable discussing what the violation was? Oh, yeah, yeah. I feel comfortable talking about it. So tell us what happened. He never raped me. Yeah. Number one, he told me, I'm going to kill you. And I didn't write this in the article, but he said I am going to break the kneecaps of that, the C word.

17:53He called you the C word? He called me the C word. Yeah. But, you know, if you're Mexican, you don't really know what that really means. How different it is. I have to say this. How different it is in the B word. Or from the P word. Or the P word. You know, they don't even know what the P word is. It's the same meaning as the C word. They know, they know. But with the P, it means you're like a, you know, like a C-C. I don't know, like somebody who's not strong, you know, like a chicken. Yeah. But with the C word, then it means you're like the B word, no? What does it mean? No, I definitely, no.

18:38The C word is definitely way worse than the B word. Anyway, I knew it was bad. Yeah. I knew, and anyway, I didn't care about the C word. I care about my knees.

18:51I care about my knees. That's good. But he wanted me to do things. I mean, all the, you know, the massage, the this, the that. it was a constant but I was depressed I was paranoid I lived in fear I tried to get out I couldn't get out every woman that's been in a similar situation that I can guarantee use the majority not just here or of the world understands that once you enter these dynamics it's really really hard to you don't see the way out there always is a way out the fear the anger the humiliation blurs your sight i just want to say that you said in your essay you listed all the times you had had to say no to harvey weinstein's sexual advances you wrote no to me taking a shower with him no to letting him watch me take a shower no to letting him give me a massage no to letting a naked friend of his give me Asajj.

19:53No to letting him give me oral sex. No to my getting naked with another woman. No, no, no, no. I think it's hard sometimes for people who work outside of Hollywood in the media to understand how women they perceive, like yourself, to be rich and famous and gorgeous, could be subjected to assaults like this. Is it hard for you to imagine? I've had I struggled with assault before I was in every situation. So he wasn't the first one? No, no, but he was the only one for five years. He was the only one for five years. So the other person, has that person, I call them now fallen trees, has that person been named or been outed, the other person?

20:40No, they're not all famous. They're not all in Hollywood. It's not about... I've had this problem since I was very little. People don't talk about too much. when they think somebody's attractive, people say, oh, she has it easy. The attractive woman is never the underdog because they're attractive. But we are really, really good subjects for rape and violation and attack and sometimes attack from other women. And, I mean, I'm not complaining, huh? I understand exactly what you're saying. But it comes with some issues, too. And so, would you say from a very young age you had to learn how to say no and keep the assaulters away?

21:27Yeah, yes. And it is full of contradictions because we are told you have to be the Virgin Mary, but you have to do what I say when I say. You have to be attractive, but you cannot be too attractive because then you are telling me that I can do whatever I want with you what the f*** do you want Jesus

22:04I mean who the hell am I supposed to be I want you to be good looking for me but not good looking for the other ones but don't come out looking like that but don't look too good.

22:20So it's a learning to manage it, although you are aware. So this is why I love the conversation with you. You're obviously a very beautiful woman, and you've been beautiful, you know, your whole life. And most women who are beautiful don't admit that they are or that that also gives you a... It gives you some power. I was just going to say, it gives you some... But it comes with a price. It gives you some power, but comes with a price. And then they expect you to continue to look beautiful for the rest of your life. Which comes with some pressure. Which comes with some pressure. Some pressure.

22:56But you know what it is? The point how to handle it, I'm going to tell you when it comes. When you say, screw you. I am going to discover who I am, not who you want me to be. And I will maybe mingle in the things that I'm supposed to hear and there, but I am going to be aware every second. Where am I here? Final question. Has this allowed you... I've heard you speak before about the importance of honor and conviction in your life. So has this movement, your work with speaking out for yourself and being inclusive of other women, has it given you a greater sense of conviction? And how important is conviction?

23:49Conviction is very, very important because you are alone in reality. You are alone in life, and it's a beautiful place to be. If you make peace with yourself, if you have a good relationship with yourself, there's so much to find. We have so many possibilities. We actually don't spend enough time with ourselves. And many times we fall into the trap to do things so that other people have a perception of who we are. Yeah. But the mystery of life, to me, is the relationship with you and you. As long as you need the others to feel comfortable, you will always suffer from anxiety. and conviction is that place where even if you make a mistake, you are at peace while you make that mistake.

24:45And mistakes sometimes are the greatest gifts that you can. Salma Hayek. Salma Hayek. Thank you so much. Welcome Trevor Noah. Oh my goodness. Let me just tell you. I have to say I love this book. I love this book so much. Thank you. And really, I have to tell you, I am so impressed that you were able to bring the story to the world in a way that has such humor and such depth, such sincerity, and such truth. Really fantastic. Thank you very much. Amazing. It's called Born a Crime, and I gotta just tell you, you're gonna love it. I've never heard of a comedian, actually, who grew up in apartheid South Africa...

25:35Right. ...under such extreme conditions, and so you were literally born a crime. Right, right. Born a crime. Right. It was illegal for a European to cohabitate, to be, have sex. Yes, to have carnal intercourse or interaction with any person of another race. And that was a law? Yes. And it was a law that if you were a black person, you could not be... Right. Yeah. Right. Everyone was separated. And so black and white and even smaller groups within race. You know, in America, oftentimes it's just black and white when the discussion is had. But in South Africa, they were meticulous. So it's black and white.

26:11Within black, black was divided into all different tribes. And those tribes were separated from one another. And then even within different races, like Asian people separates Japanese, a different class to Chinese. And Indian, a different class to other types of Asian. And this was a system designed to make sure that every group was small and oppressed in a different way. That's right. And speaking different languages so nobody could communicate. Right. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And you, when you were a little boy, they had to hide you. Which is something I didn't know, by the way. Imagine this. I'm a little kid growing up.

26:45They just tell me sometimes to go and hide under the bed. In my world, I go, I have the coolest parents in the world. Sometimes I go hide, and then I come out. and then only when I'm writing the book does my grandmother tell me, oh, yes, we hid you under the bed, Trevor. We hid you because the police would come and if they found you, then they would take you away, so we had to hide you. And I'm like, how did I not know this my entire life? And my grand goes, you never asked. Weird. And explain why they had to hide you. Well, because I was evidence of my parents' crime. So here's the fundamental problem with racism is that it's an idea that is defeated over and over again by people contradicting what people have been told.

27:26And that is black and white cannot mix, colors cannot mix. And when people mix, they prove that it can happen. They prove that you can have beautiful children. They prove that love can cross color boundaries. The thing that really got me about this book, and I actually read a review of it, that said it's a love letter to your mother. Completely. I mean, you and your mom. First of all, your mom, she's a badass, man. Yeah. She is just... Like... Just a badass warrior woman. To have said she, on purpose, intentionally wanted to have you. Right. Knew it was against the law. Knew it was against the law to be with a white person.

28:02Say, I'm going to do it anyway. Right. Yes. And I'm going to have this child, and I'm going to raise this child the way I want to raise this child. Right. Yeah. Most people would have a sign to protest government oppression. My mother had me.

28:16And, you know, in telling my story and writing this book, I never thought it was about my mom. I think most of us believe that we're the heroes of our story. Yeah. And in writing the story, I realized that I was my mother's punk-ass sidekick. You know, I genuinely, I didn't set out to write it about my mother at all. I just, I was telling my story. And it's funny how you sit down and then you come to realize the people in your life who have shaped you and who play a big role in who you are. And I can't deny that my mother was that person for me who stood up at a time when many people were afraid to stand up, when a country was being punished for standing up.

28:48And she said, no, as a woman and as a black person, I will live the way I believe I'm allowed to live whether you tell me I can or not and she did that and so because of that she's the example that I lived my life by without realizing the consequences and that for me is one of the most gangster human beings you can shape yourself oh yeah your mom's gangster

29:10so this this I thought on page 73 was one of the greatest tributes you said the highest rung of what's possible. Listen, y 'all. The highest rung of what's possible is far beyond the world you can see. My mother showed me what was possible. The thing that always amazed me about her life was that no one showed her. I know y 'all like that part. no one chose her she did it on her own she found her way through sheer force of will an amazing gangsta mom okay so what i also love is that you talk in the book about the black tax yes that white people don't know nothing about but black people have a black tax because you're expected to explain the black tax well here's here's the thing here's the thing and this is this is one of the hardest conversations to have with people is like, you know, oftentimes we get into conversations, especially today, where white people will say, not all, but white people will have a conversation where they say, I don't understand why a black person feels so oppressed.

30:17We've lived the same lives. We've grown up the same way. Yes, I understand maybe your parents were oppressed, but now you're free. So what's the issue? And then what you come to realize is apart from traces of systematic or systemic oppression that still exist, there is also one underlying issue, and that is the devastation that impacted your generational family. Like, those are things that you take for granted. Even if you say, well, my grandfather wasn't rich. I got nothing from him. Yeah, but you got opportunity. You got knowledge. You got ideas. You got things that many black families were robbed of.

30:50And so... I think that's so important. You know, I've done hundreds of shows over the years of The Oprah Show, and I remember actually being in an audience talking about race, and a white woman, I said exactly that to a black guest, I didn't do it to you. Why should I still feel bad? Because I didn't do it to you. That was your grandmothers and great-grandmothers, and I was trying to do exactly what you just did. Explain, what if your grandmother had never been allowed to work as anything other than a maid? What if your grandfather could never find a job? What if nobody in your family was ever treated like they were a full human being?

31:24Wouldn't that have any impact at all on you? And the greatest gift my mother gave me, and she always said it was, My son, I may not be able to give you one cent in this world But I promise you I will not give you the black tax That's the one thing I'll keep from you I will handle it You go and fly in the world I just want to know Because I kept waiting in the book for you to tell us How you ended up on The Daily Show How did that happen to you? That was one of the most surreal experiences ever I was, for the first time, touring the world I had just started touring in the UK And I was doing comedy in the world Which was a lifelong dream for me And I was walking through Harrods I'll never forget this.

32:02It's a crazy store where they sell everything that nobody can afford. Most of us cannot afford. And so I was walking around looking at just crazy things in the world, and my phone rings, and it's an American number, and I answer, and the voice on the other side said, hi, can I speak to Trevor Noah? And I said, speaking. And the voice said, hi, this is Jon Stewart. And I said, uh, yes, because I'm not thinking it's the Jon Stewart. It's like if I got called by someone and said I'm Oprah, I'd be like, Oprah Stevenson? Oprah? I'm not just gonna jump to you like, of course, Oprah, hello. Yes, Oprah.

32:32I don't know which Jon Stewart is calling me. And so I said, Jon Stewart? I said, oh, I'm sorry, I'm Jon Stewart. I host The Daily Show in America. You may have heard of it. I was like, yeah, of course I've heard of the show. And he said, well, I've seen your comedy, and I'm a big fan of yours. Where had he seen your comedy? On YouTube. On YouTube. Yeah, of course. And then he said, hey, I was wondering if you ever come to America, would you like to pop into the show and hang out? I think you'd like what we do, and maybe we could hang out. He said, I'm going to be there next Tuesday. And funny enough, I said no.

32:58You said no? Yeah, like I said, this is the greatest moment of my life, but I've worked so hard to get what I have in the UK. These people have bought tickets. This is the most important thing that's ever happened to me. Thank you, but no. And he paused and he said, are you seriously saying no? And I said, yeah, but thank you. But thank you, but no. Was he asking you to leave again? Yeah, well, I knew that I would have to cancel my tours. I'd have to go to the US. And I was like, no, I've worked for this. I've worked for these people. I don't take my fans for granted. I respect that. And so I did that.

33:33And John said, well, when you ever do come to New York, look me up and let's hang out. And I did that a year and a half later. A year and a half later. That's pretty amazing. So were you surprised when they said, we want you now to step in and do it? I was. I was surprised because in my world, I had no chance. But I come from a world where there was no chance. so every chance I've taken is the one that's impossible. I always say to people, why do the possible thing? It's boring if you succeed. Like, do the impossible thing because if you don't get it right, people are like, you weren't going to get it right and if you do, you did the impossible.

34:06And so for me, it was like, yeah, I'll throw my name in and if I don't get The Daily Show, I was never meant to get The Daily Show but if I get it, this is something that I would have never dreamed of doing. And so they called me, I was doing shows in Dubai and I got a phone call and they said, hey, we've looked through everyone, we've gone through all our decisions, would you like to be the host of The Daily Show? and if I wasn't sitting down, I would have fallen over. I would have fainted. It was mind-blowing. And I couldn't get alcohol because I was in Dubai. Like, I didn't know. I was just like, I'm so happy.

34:33And, you know, it was everything. It really was. Yeah. And what is your intention with the show every night? The purpose of the show is to engage in the news in a manner that is critical in its thoughts, to think about what's happening, process it, react to it, and most importantly, give it the respect that it deserves whilst not also giving it the power to completely control your emotional states. Absolutely. I read where you said you believe we've reached a tipping point of outrage and injustice. That's pretty profound coming from somebody who's lived through apartheid. Well, it's worrying when you look at what's happening in America, you know, and in some parts of the world as well, but America's getting to a place where it feels like it is extremely divided along partisan lines.

35:24And conversations have shifted to a point where human beings no longer see a human being on the other side of this discussion. And it's tough to say that one side should be empathetic towards the other side when the other side doesn't see them as human beings. And that's a fundamental breakdown that seems to be happening in America. And you can't deny... And this is my thing, is I tell people all the time, they go like, oh, if you hate America, why? I'm like, yeah, I never said I hate... I love it. If I didn't love it, I wouldn't be here. This is a great place. I enjoy America. I love Americans.

35:57I have a great time. Having an issue with Donald Trump doesn't make me unique because every Republican saw it before he was in office, you know? And so if, as you said, going back to character, if your character shifts depending on who's in power, then was it your character to begin with? That's the way I see it, so...

36:21Do you feel you hit a stride? I don't ever think that I've hit my stride. It's very much like an athletic event. You're always trying to be better. So by stride, I mean, do you think you've found your way? I think I've reshaped how I've seen the show because when I first started The Daily Show and when I took over the seat from Jon Stewart, I had an idea of what I wanted the show to be. I've now come to realize that I am existing and the show is existing as an organism in a world that is constantly changing. and so I cannot give it a concrete definition because the world around it is constantly shaping how it reacts.

36:52Okay. So if anything, I wish for the show to be like water. It should be moving with the same force as it moves through ideas and conversations and I think it's about finding an authentic way to express a point of view in and around what the news is every single day. That's what I'm trying to do on the show but I've come to realize there is no fixed point. I'm sailing in a direction, aiming for true north but it's shifting with the tide, and you're constantly trying to keep the boat where it needs to go versus where you thought it should go. You got it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That is it.

37:27That is it. You have to let it guide you because it's bigger than you. Exactly. And you are there to be used by it, and so you allow it to take you where it needs to go. It is my great pleasure and delight to be my honor. Thank you so much. Great pleasure and delight. Give her a little up! More time! Yes, of course! Thank you so much. So wonderful to be with you. Great, great, great. I'm Oprah Winfrey, and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe, rate, and review this podcast.

38:10Join me next week for another Super Soul Conversation. Thank you for listening.