Super Soul Summer: Brené Brown Rising Strong

0:00Hey there, podcast listeners. I have exciting news. We're launching a brand new podcast in addition to Super Soul Conversations. It's called Oprah's Masterclass. The Masterclass podcast allows you to hear the greatest life lessons from some of the most respected and renowned actors, musicians, public figures, and athletes in their own words. Listen as Jay-Z, Justin Timberlake, Ellen DeGeneres, Shaquille O 'Neal, Reba McIntyre, Dwayne Johnson, and Jane Fonda, just to name a few, share what they've learned about life and their own insights into their personal stories and challenges. I believe that there's something to be learned from every experience, and everyone can use their life as a class.

0:44Oprah's Masterclass Podcast will be available July 19th on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe now and listen free. Go to applepodcast.com slash Oprah's Masterclass. I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time. Taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. With her pioneering research on vulnerability, shame, courage, and worthiness, social scientist Dr. Brene Brown has sparked a global conversation. Her 2010 TEDxTalk remains a viral phenomenon with more than 21 million views.

1:36She's also a super soul superstar. Her message resonated with so many of us. Brene is the author of three number one New York Times bestsellers, The Gifts of Imperfection, Daring Greatly, and Rising Strong. In this book, she unveils groundbreaking new research on three phases of overcoming struggle. The Reckoning, The Rumble, and The Revolution. This book is like it was written, Rising Strong, great title by the way. Thank you. is like it was written for our audience because you actually believe that the ability to rise and rise strongly is a spiritual practice.

2:17Brené Brown: I do. You know, when I talk about spirituality, one of the definitions I put forward in my work is that spirituality is this deeply held belief that we're inextricably connected to each other by something greater than us and that something greater is rooted in love and belonging. Some of us, I call that God. Some people call it nature, the universe, the source, the higher power. And so to me, it's about the big key piece is that inextricably connected. Like we will never be able to free ourselves from suffering until we're all free from suffering, which makes it our job to do something about it.

2:57That's a tweet along. We will never be able to be free from suffering until we're all free. Until we're all free. Because we're all tied. To each other. I don't think people really fully get that, though. I mean, I've been saying that for all the years that I've been talking on television, on radio and magazine. But I don't think we understand how we are. Can you actually explain that? How are we all tied?

3:20Brené Brown: I think it goes back to the spirituality. I think we are all tied together because our humanness brings us together. So if there is suffering in the Middle East, if there's suffering in Africa, if there's suffering in Asia, my freedom, my humanity is tied to that suffering. So to pretend like my only concern is what's right in front of me makes irrelevant our shared humanity. I love how you start the book saying, we've all fallen. Hmm. And we have the skin knees and bruised hearts to prove it. But scars are easier to talk about than they are to show with all the remembered feelings laid bare. And rarely do we see wounds that are in the process of healing.

4:12Rising strong. Page 24. Yeah.

4:17Brené Brown: I think we've all fallen. I think we all have been hurt, disappointed, failure, heartbreak. The problem is in our culture today, if you listen to a talk or if you listen to someone tell a story, they set it up and they say, then I fell, then I got hurt, then we failed. And then all of a sudden in 20 seconds, but then I fought my way back up. We got our act together. I fell in love with someone new. but no one stops at that moment where we're really hurt and down and says, what happens here? What happens in this moment? We, we look away when people try to show us or sometimes people are too ashamed to show us.

5:01Brené Brown: But for me, right. You know, writing this book, you know, I've spent this career saying, be, be yourself, be brave, be in the arena, show up. And then we started getting emails. Like I went into the arena, I showed up and now I got my heart broke. I lost my job. I lost my job. I've done, you know. Yeah. And so I really felt like it was ethically imperative to talk about what does it look like to get back up? And what's so crazy for me about in our culture today is we look at things like failure and disappointment and heartbreak and think, man, I don't want to be those folks, but those are the brave people.

5:38Brené Brown: Look, the brokenhearted are the bravest among us because they dare to love somebody. Yeah. And there is a process. You've done the scientific research combined with the spiritual knowing, and you don't separate the two. You say, I don't believe faith and reason are natural enemies. I don't trust a theologian who dismisses the beauty of science. Ain't that the truth? Or a scientist who doesn't believe in the power of mystery. So how do you qualify qualitative research and reconcile that with spirituality? Because as a researcher, my job is to develop a theory based on the data that explains a phenomenon.

6:21Brené Brown: And I do that by trying to understand people's lived experiences. And so if I'm sitting across from thousands of people interviewing them and they're telling me about the importance of spirituality in their life or faith or mystery or grace, then it's my job as a social scientist to make sure that I include that in whatever theory I develop or whatever explanation I put forward. What I think is amazing is that one of the things that you've understood as a researcher, as a mother, as a daughter living in the world, is that we are all looking for the same thing. That's how also we're connected. Absolutely.

6:59And you say that that is, you capsulize it as we're all looking for a wholehearted life. Yeah. Yeah.

7:07Brené Brown: To me, wholeheartedness is about being able to look at ourselves and to look at each other and say, I'm imperfect. I'm afraid. I'm vulnerable. But that doesn't change the fact that I'm also brave and worthy of love and belonging and joy. That's what everyone's looking for. everyone's looking for this sense of I'm enough. And my imperfection doesn't change that. This is when I knew we were kindred spirits, for real, because you included my favorite law, Newton's third law of motion here. I've always known that this law applies directly to our lives. It's just not some physical formula. It's huge.

7:57Brené Brown: And so the whole idea that for every action, there is an equal reaction. Yep. And so when something happens and we, and it emotionally juices us up, that doesn't just dissipate into the air. So for every time I feel hurt or feel ashamed or feel angry, I'm going to do something with that. Yeah. Or that energy is creating its own thing already that's coming back. Right. That's why it may not show up, you know, immediately, but it just gets passed on to the next person. Yeah, there was like these very patterned ways that people offload hurt and emotion instead of feel it. And there's, you know, there's anger and blame and avoidance.

8:42Brené Brown: There's folks who push it down. I call it chandeliering. They push it down so far that they think they've got control of it. And then a seemingly innocent comment or something happens and they just. Foof. Yeah, straight up to the chandelier. Yeah. They go into a rage. And if you've ever worked with someone like that or were raised by a parent like that, that's trauma-inducing. That's eggshell environment. Absolutely. And so for every action, there's a reaction. It's going to surface somewhere. The other thing that people do is they just stockpile it until their bodies say, I can't hold any more of this.

9:18Brené Brown: I can't do it anymore. And then their bodies turn on them. Their bodies. I mean, because the body keeps score and it always wins. Yep. So it's I can't sleep at night. Depression, anxiety. Yeah. I mean, so. The body keeps score and it always wins. Yeah. Because it's taking in everything all the time. Nothing ever leaves. That's why you can dream about your fifth grade teacher and you're 55. Right. And put yourself right back in that classroom. And it's the wisest part of us. Yes. So you say that this is probably one of your most personal books yet. Yeah. How is this the most personal? I see the progression of like the gifts of imperfection is be you.

9:57Brené Brown: Daring greatly is be all in. And rising strong is fall, learn, get up and do it again. And so it's the most personal book because as I was writing it, really the heart of this book is about these really dangerous stories we make up when we're in the midst of struggle, when we're in a fall. We are neurobiologically hardwired to make sense of that fall, to make sense of our hurt as fast as we can. And if we can come up with a story that makes sense of it, our brain chemically rewards us for that story. whether it's accurate or not. And so for me, what became very important is to write a book to help people understand when you fall, the stories you make up about your fall need to be really tested.

10:52Brené Brown: And so as I was writing it, what I realized was that my stories of failure and heartbreak were the ones that gave me the most access to understanding what was happening behind the scenes in the story because we all do it. We all do it. I mean, if you and I finish this interview and we walk down the hill and I say, thanks a lot, Oprah, I really appreciate it. And you go like this, my brain takes that as anxiety or fear and I immediately make up a story. I knew she never liked me. That Super Soul Sunday really sucked. I didn't do the right thing. It was terrible. And then all of a sudden, I'm working off a whole narrative.

11:38Brené Brown: How I treat you the next time I see you is off that narrative. Wow. And then, you know, it just keeps going and going. So how do we make sure that or know that the story that we're telling ourself is in alignment with what actually did happen? Yeah. That's the rising strong process. That's the rising strong process. Right. So if we use that example of just you and I together. And so there's three pieces, the reckoning, the rumble and the revolution. The reckoning has two easy, seemingly easy, but pretty difficult pieces. The first thing I have to do is when you look at me like that and I feel something in response to it, I have to A, acknowledge, woo, a button's been pushed.

12:18Brené Brown: I've been hooked on something emotionally is happening here. I'm responding. And then I have to be willing to get curious about what it is. So instead of immediately going to my crazy story, I have to go to, okay, I'm emotionally hooked around something. I don't know what just happened, but I'm feeling like stressed out about it or it hurt my feelings or something, and I need to figure out more. The reckoning is actually the recognition of it. Reckoning. Something emotional has happened. But the big piece of the reckoning, and this is the part that really shocked me, is I'm willing to get curious and look into it.

12:53Yeah.

12:54Brené Brown: Do you know how many people are not curious about emotion because that was just drilled out of us growing up? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. People are not curious about emotion. What's so crazy about curiosity when I was doing the research is, did you know that we're not curious about things that we don't know a little bit about? We have to know a little bit about something in order to even be curious about it. Yes. But people are not curious about emotion because most of us grew up, myself included, in families where we did not talk about feelings. Of course not. We heard one of these messages, whether that's vulnerability and weakness or that won't do you any good.

13:30Brené Brown: Yep. No need to be talking about it. No. People like us don't talk about stuff like that. That's right. Right. So it's a bigger step. The reckoning is a bigger step than you think, because you have to realize you're triggered and then get curious about it. And I'll tell you the other thing. We are much better at causing hurt than feeling hurt. we're much better at inflicting pain than feeling and acknowledging pain. So it could be more likely that if you gave me a look and a, when I said thank you, it could, it's very possible that how that would happen is I get back up to the house to get changed and my phone rings and it's my daughter asking to go somewhere.

14:13Brené Brown: I'm like, hey, just because you got your license doesn't mean that you get to drive around all the time. You'll keep your butt at home today. So then you then inflict whatever that is you're feeling on the next person. Right. Oh, it happens over and over and again all day long. Right. We just offload pain instead of feel it. So I'm asking, like, this thing in the reckoning was to know, whew, I'm emotionally hooked and I need to figure out what's going on. I mean, if you can get that far in this process, that is a big deal. That is a reckoning. That's a fierce reckoning. I know something's going on.

14:50Brené Brown: I'm less likely to work it out on my employees or my kids or my friends. Yeah. And the big thing is to recognize that when you're hooked, that it's your hook, that it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other person. Nothing. Nothing. And people know they're hooked different ways. Like for me, I find myself in the pantry. Yeah. I usually forge for carbohydrates. Yep. Absolutely. Literally to make myself feel better. Yeah, literally to like push down. Push down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. And other people know they're hooked because they go into the loop in their head. They replay it over and over and over again a thousand times.

15:29Brené Brown: Some people know they're hooked because they want to punch somebody in the face or knock out a wall. So learning how, learning the signs of being hooked are really important. And that's a part of the reckoning. That's a part of the reckoning. Got it. Yeah. And then I'm curious. I want to, I want to, and it's that easy. Like, man, something is going on. I got to figure it out. No, but I mean, but this process of understanding that rising strong means you look directly to yourself for what was it about that that got me upset. Yeah, what's going on? It has nothing to do with the other person. It's what's going on with me.

16:08No. Why am I feeling so anxious? Yeah. I tell you one thing that has been huge for me is that I have come to learn fully that my healing, whether it's a small altercation like this or a really big wound, is not dependent on other people.

16:27Brené Brown: I need to figure out why I'm hooked and I need to get curious about what's going on for me. Let's move right to the rumble. So what's interesting is a lot of research, other researchers, kind of skip over that little, I call it the SFD. Am I allowed to say what it stands for? Please do. The shitty first draft from Anne Lamott. Yeah. Who says all good writers start with the shitty first draft, right? So that first story we make up, no one wants to stop and own that. We just want to get to fixing the problem. Oh, my God. Everything we need to know about who we are and what we need to work on lives in that SFD.

17:03Brené Brown: So for me, the minute that you kind of blew me off as we were walking away was, I didn't do a good job on Super Soul Sunday. I knew she never liked me. She doesn't trust me. I'm really terrible in these situations. I need to not do things like this. I need to just go back to Houston and not do scary big things like this. I knew I screwed it up. That would be my first one. That's my story I'm telling myself. But doesn't every story, when you get to the last layer in the onion that you're pulling away of yourself, isn't the bottom layer always I'm not enough? It is almost always I'm not enough. Yeah.

17:39And a lot of people turn that into, so who do you think you are? Right, right.

17:43Brené Brown: Yeah. Yeah, which is a great shaming message. It's a shaming message. But for me, so you've got this SFD. Now it's time to rumble, meaning now, and I loved it because someone said, why rumble? I'm like, because it's not a dance. It's harder than a dance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not a conversation. It's a rumble. It's a, let's toss this thing around, poke into it, turn it inside out, get really curious. So now I've got to start asking myself, what do I really know? You know, this is, I think this is amazing. What do you call a story that has limited data points, limited factual data points that you fill in with your ideas and beliefs?

18:26What?

18:27Brené Brown: A conspiracy. Aye. That's the definition of a conspiracy. Limited data points, and we fill in the rest with our values, beliefs, and ideas, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So now I need to take this conspiracy, and I need to—the two things that you see a lot around these SFDs, conspiracies and confabulations. That you're coming up with yourself about. And a confabulation, it's such a great word. We study it in social work school when we talk about brain injury and different things. Yeah. A confabulation is a lie told honestly. So if my husband texted me and said, hey, how'd everything go with Super Soul Sunday?

19:04And I said, Oprah totally blew me off.

19:07Brené Brown: She thought I completely sucked at it. She's super frustrated with me. That's not true, right? Right. But it's a lie told honestly. And so those conspiracies. I love that word, confabulation. Isn't that a great word? I love it. So those conspiracies and those confabulations are dangerous. They're really dangerous. And people are doing it to themselves all the time. Oh, my God. I do this work with leaders all the time. And I asked leaders, how many of you today had a conversation or a discussion that kind of set you off a little bit, and within 30 seconds you had made up a story about someone? And every leader in the room raises their hand every time.

19:46Wow, wow.

19:47Brené Brown: So what we have to do in the Rumble is we have to challenge those things. What do I really know for sure? What am I making up? Brene says there are three questions to ask yourself in the middle of the Rumble. What more do I need to learn and understand about this situation? What more do I need to learn and understand about the other people in this story? And what more do I need to learn and understand about myself? Rumbling is scary because it means staying brave and feeling our way through. What do I have to look at in this? What's really going on for me? Shame. Perfectionism. trust. And so what I would do now is I would say, hey, do you have a sec?

20:35Brené Brown: When we were walking away from the set after Super Soul Sunday, I said, thank you. And you looked at me funny. You looked at me really funny. And I made up that you were upset with me about something or something got screwed up. Yeah. And I'm wondering if I could just get clear on it with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if I did that. May I just reiterate, this is a hypothetical situation. Because if you're just coming in in the middle of this, you're like, ooh, Oprah blew off Bernay. They are throwing down. They are throwing down on the show. It's all hypothetical, people. We're just using it as an example.

21:11Super hypothetical. Super hypothetical. So, okay, continue.

21:14Brené Brown: Yeah, so, but let me ask you, if that hypothetical thing, which would never happen in a million years, happened, and I came to you and said, do you have a second? This is what happened, and here's what I'm making up about it. Yeah. Would you think I'm brave or weak for coming and clearing that with you? I would think that was so brave. I would be like, wow. First of all, I'm so glad you mentioned this because I was thinking about my left foot. And my knee was hurting and I didn't want to fall when I walked down that little hill. And so the reason why I was looking funny is because I'm like, uh-uh, here comes the hill.

21:49It had nothing to do with you. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So on rumbling with failure and regret, you wrote, if there's one thing failure has taught me, it's the value of regret. How so?

22:02Brené Brown: I think, I didn't want to believe this, but I have come to learn that regret is a fair but tough teacher. Regret, I think, is a function of empathy. And so when people say, I have no regrets, I think, that seems dangerous to me because do you not look back? ever and say, if I had this to do over again, I wish I'd done it another way. I wish I would have done another way. Lord knows. Yes. Yeah. And you know what we regret the most in the research? I asked people, what are those regrets? They're failures of kindness and failures of courage. I look back and I regret, oh man, I've never even talked about this before, but I was looking through some high school yearbooks and I saw where my girlfriends and I I had like marked out people's faces and wrote names under it.

22:55Brené Brown: Slut or, you know, jerk or whatever. And I was like, I hope I didn't treat people like that. And if I did, oh my God, I regret it. God, I regret it. But I absolutely have regrets. And I don't think I'm done having them. Yeah. So first we walk into the reckoning and then the rumble and then the revolution comes. The revolution. Yeah. The revolution is simply when this process becomes practice. I get it. Just like anything else that's worthwhile, it has to become a practice. Yes. And so the revolution is turning things upside down so uncomfortably that you can't go back. We use it with our kids.

23:36Brené Brown: We use it with each other. I use it with my team. It's taking responsibility in the world for your own emotions and not allowing yourself to project your stuff. Yeah. And make it about somebody else ever. Right. And let me tell you. Because nobody's ever doing anything to you. No. And the most dangerous stories we make up are the stories that we make up about our lovability, about our divinity, and about our creativity. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, the stories we make up about our lovability. He left me. She had an affair. And then all of a sudden, we make up a story that says, I'm not lovable. Yeah.

24:20Yeah. What you say is that it literally affects our inherent worthiness. Absolutely. Yeah. When you make up those stories, it's really all boils down to, I'm not enough. I'm not enough. I'm not enough. Therefore, not worthy. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

24:35Brené Brown: And so those narrative, crazy narratives that we make up, I think they shape who we are. Don't we make them up to help us to actually avoid the truth? You know what we make them up for? What? It's actually even more primitive than that. What? Survival. Survival. So our brain is wired above all else for survival. Uh-huh. So the minute we have a threat, whether it's a threat, anxiety, fear, shame, whatever that threat is, our brain says, give me a story. Our brain recognizes the pattern of a narrative, beginning, middle, end. Yeah. Give me a story that tells me who's safe, who's good, who's bad, who's dangerous.

25:10Brené Brown: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give me a story. And so we make up that story and there's, you know, good guys, bad guys. We're wrong. You know, we're the victim. They're the purpose. You know, it's, it goes. So it's really about trying to make sense of things very quickly. What our brain does not take into consideration is the need for discomfort and vulnerability in real relationship. Uh-huh. Right. Yes. Right. Uh-huh. And so it's he or she who's willing to be the most uncomfortable can rise strong. Whoa. Yeah. Discomfort. The way home. You say we got to lean into it. Oh, my God. Like, it sucks. It's terrible.

25:52Oh, I'd rather have a bag of potato chips. Lord knows. A bag? Yes. Yeah. Rather than leaning into discomfort. I'll do anything. Lean in back. Lean in back of discomfort with a bag of chips. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

26:06Brené Brown: Or a glass of red wine or six. You know, or, you know, everything that we've got going on in the world today. Yeah. And so leaning into it actually helps you eventually push through the number one, the reckoning, the rumble. And the leaning in is what actually causes the revolution. It does, because it can revolutionize the way you live, the way you love, the way you lead, the way you parent. it has completely changed everything for me. Well, that's what I got from the whole process here. Rising Strong is about rising strong into the fullness of who you were meant to be. And it means, you know, in essence, when I first started the Oprah Winfrey show, I think one of the first things I said was about one of the reasons we wanted to do this show is so that you can see that you, number one, are not alone and that you and only you can take responsibility for your life.

27:02This is about taking responsibility and stop putting the blame on anybody or anything other than yourself. This says to me, more clearly than anything, that this whole world, everything, your encounters, your experiences, are mirrors of you. And it's showing up so that you can have the reckoning. It's showing up to get you to rumble. It's showing up to get you to move to lead a revolutionary life. That's what I got from it. Is it? That's it. That's what I got. That's it. So all the people that you've interviewed and all of your research had some things in common. Yeah. What were those things that allowed them to rise strong?

27:40Brené Brown: The biggest thing? Yeah. The willingness and the ability to be uncomfortable and to feel their way through emotion. Every transformational leader I've ever worked with has the ability to be incredibly uncomfortable, have uncomfortable conversations, make uncomfortable decisions, because unfortunately, this was a new learning for me in the last 10 years, the right choice is not always the easy choice. Probably most times it's not. It is, yeah. Yeah. That sucks. You cannot run an operation or be even in a family unit, not make right choices, best decisions that aren't going to hurt some people sometimes.

28:19Exactly, that's right. Not hurt, certainly offend. Right. Step on other people's toes. Disappoint.

28:23Brené Brown: Yeah. Yeah. So you believe we can be taught to do it. Oh, yes. That's what this is all about. There's a process. Totally. To when you fall down, how to get yourself back up. Very few of the people, the men and women who I interviewed, who had really fierce, rising, strong abilities just came that way. They learned this process. They practiced this process. I think we can all do it. I don't think, I think if you're raising a family that does uncomfortable, that does discomfort, that does emotion, you got a huge head start. But what happens when there are things that really are beyond your control?

28:59Because for most people, things are happening that are beyond their control. How do you rise strong in the midst of that?

29:05Brené Brown: You know what? You still have to very much watch the story that you're making up about that. Okay. Bad stuff happens all the time that is absolutely outside of our control. But is my first story about that, I did something that deserved it, someone's out to get me. What is that first story? Because that first story dictates a lot about how we move forward. If your partner is cheating on you, that's often outside of what you're doing. But as your story, it's because I'm unlovable, because I'm not good enough. I'm not thin enough. I'm not pretty enough. I'm not wealthy or powerful enough. That's a perfect example because someone who betrays you in a marriage, partnership, relationship certainly does feel like that's on that person.

29:56And to blame yourself for it, for the reason that other person is doing it, the reckoning, is there a different kind of reckoning that happens with betrayal?

30:05Brené Brown: I don't think there is. Really? I don't think there is. I think it's the exact same thing. But if you look at the rumble topics, I think there are different rumble topics. I think when you have to look at betrayal, you have to rumble with grief, shame, trust, ultimately maybe forgiveness. I mean, one of the things I learned in this book that was like, took my breath away, was around forgiveness and grief. I tried to put forgiveness in the gifts of imperfection. And I did a focus group around forgiveness. And everything they said did not fit at all with how I was writing about it. So I had to pull it out.

30:55Brené Brown: Then one day I'm at church where, you know, Joe Reynolds, who was the dean of where I went to church, was talking. And he said this sentence. In order for forgiveness to really happen, something has to die. Wow. And I just remember sitting there and I was like, I remember putting my hands over my face and I was like, oh, my God. I had no idea that embedded deep into forgiveness is grief. Yeah. So we looked at all the stories again, all the research, the data, the incidents, and we were like, oh my God, that's why I didn't figure it out. Because in order for forgiveness to happen, something has to die.

31:41And you are grieving, first of all, I mean, particularly people who've been betrayed, marriage or otherwise, you are grieving your idea of what you had. There is a mourning of... Yes. And that's what the sadness is about, is because I believe this to be one thing, and now I've been shown it's another, and I need time to actually process the grieving of that.

32:05Brené Brown: Yeah. Yeah. It's like you've now got to let that go and create a new normal for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know... Because that dream, that's actually what I think, for many people, divorce and betrayal and disappointment really is. it's letting go your idea of what that was. Yeah. What you believe that to be. So what's the moment that changed your life? There were a lot, but I have to say that there is no bigger moment that changed my life than probably stumbling upon the Theodore Roosevelt quote. Mm. Let's hear it. It's not the critic who counts. It's not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done it differently.

32:49Brené Brown: The credit belongs to the person who's actually in the arena. whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood, who strives valiantly, who comes up short again and again and again, who in the end may know the triumph of high achievement, and who when he fails, he does so daring greatly. That's when I learned that if you're going to be brave, you're going to fall. What is the one piece of wisdom that you have gained that you wish to pass on? that vulnerability is the best measure of courage. Wow, that's a good one. Tweet, tweet. I think that's it. I think that's the soul of all the work. The willingness to show up and let ourselves be fully seen and known.

33:44Brené Brown: It doesn't get braver than that. It just really doesn't, does it? It does make you braver than that. It does not. I love what you say in the manifesto. It's long. It's on page 267. It's a great manifesto for life. I'm just going to read the end where you say, we are the authors of our lives. We write our own daring endings. We craft love from heartbreak. What a beautiful sentence. Compassion from shame. Grace from disappointment. Courage from failure. Showing up is our power. Story is our way home. Truth is our song. We are the brave and brokenhearted. We are rising strong. Love it! Just love it.

34:34Love it. Love it. Love it. I'm Oprah Winfrey, and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Join me next week for another Super Soul Conversation. Thank you for listening.