Suze Orman at the Apollo: Women and Money, Part 2

0:00Your call has been forwarded to an automatic voice message system. A missed call doesn't feel like anything. No red flag, no notifications screaming at you. It just disappears into your call log. And nine times out of ten, that was someone ready to hand you money. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q-U-O. The business phone system built so you never miss a call. Here's what I like about it. All your calls, texts, and voicemails live in one place, so anyone on your team can pick up a conversation, see the full history, and respond fast. No more, wait, who talked to this customer last?

0:36And if you're worried about after-hours leads slipping through, Quo's optional built-in AI agent can answer questions and even book appointments while your team's offline. It's the number one rated business phone system on G2, and over 90 ,000 businesses already trust it to stay reachable. Money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free. Plus, get 20 % off your first six months when you go to Quo.com slash tech. That's Q-U-O dot com slash tech.

1:07Hi, it's Ashley from OWN. So, we have been renovating our garage, and it has been such an exciting project. We took the garage door down and installed large, beautiful sliding glass doors. We quickly realized we needed curtains for privacy, and I found the perfect ones on Wayfair. Shipping was incredibly fast and customer service was helpful with getting us a replacement as I initially ordered the wrong length. It has completely elevated the space and is becoming our favorite place to unwind. Wayfair helps you create a home that stands up to real life with quality products, great value, and trusted reviews.

1:42Wayfair verified products are hand-vetted by product specialists using a 10-point quality inspection. More than 20 million verified five-star reviews help shoppers buy with confidence. Plus, Wayfair Rewards members 5 % back on every purchase. Transform your space with pieces that hold up to real life. Join Wayfair Rewards today and get 5 % back on every purchase. Head to Wayfair.com or shop the Wayfair app for all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. The information in this program is for your general knowledge and is not a substitute for financial or legal advice.

2:23I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time. Taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. Welcome to part two of our conversation. Yes, ma 'am. Hi, Susie. I have a question. My employer offers both. They offer the traditional 401k as well as the Roth 401k, and I also participate in the Roth. Right now, I'm just participating in the traditional 401k, and I'm scheduled in a couple of years to max out, at which time I was going to take that additional 6 % and contribute to the Roth 401k.

3:17No, I have two years to wait. I want you to do it right away. My concern is to my take-home pay. That's my concern. If I make the switch too early, I'm concerned that I'm going to take, I'm going to put myself in a financial bind as it pertains to my take-home pay. All right, so let me tell you why you won't. I learned a long time ago that whatever you make and you bring home, you spend. I don't want you to make less, but the less you bring home, the less you will spend. So I will make a bet with you,$100 right here on this stage, right? But really, I promise you that if you start switching to the Roths and you bring home less money, you will spend less money and you will find that it works the good news is if it doesn't go back and switch but wouldn't it be great if that happened so the more money you make the more money you spend the less money you think you make the less money you spend will you give it a try for me yes ma 'am you got it.

4:38But really, everybody, haven't you noticed that's true? Like Woody. Remember, we were making $400 a month,$5 ,000 a year, and we used to say, or at least I used to say, if I only could make $10 ,000 a year, I'd be sitting pretty. Oh my God. If I only made$30 ,000 a year, it would be great. Oh, if I only made$80 ,000,$150 ,000,$250 ,000, half a million, now a million, it never was enough. And it was never enough because as I was making more money, I wanted everybody to see how much more money I was making. I wanted to impress people that much more until I got smacked big time in the face. That's a whole other story.

5:25But do you understand? Your money will never define you. You define your money. It's so fascinating that sometimes when I wear clothes or whatever, and it could be a$10 jacket, or just last week I was on this, oh, it was on the Gayle King show on CBS the other morning, And I had this jacket on, this red jacket and my belt and my black, you know, little t-shirt that I always wear. Rachel made out copies. Right. If you look back on any single show I ever did for over 14 years, you will see the same little black t-shirts here. Right. She has the same thing. Maybe a longer neck, but that's different.

6:19Right. But I love Rachel, I have to tell you. I just love that woman. But here's the thing, all right? What was I saying? Where was I going with that? The jacket? Oh, the red jacket, right. So the segment's over, and then they say, I love that jacket. And, like, expensive, right? And I said, no. It was$5, which is true, at the HSN store that I happened to be visiting the week before. $5. And they just looked at me and they said, it's not good to lie. I'm like, I'm not lying. But because I was wearing it. Because I was wearing it. Right? It was whatever. So I got a little email saying, really? Is that what?

7:12Anyway. But do you all understand what I'm saying? You make your clothes. You make the impression. And the clothes can never make you look that powerful. It's if you're wearing something and your clothes are leased to the department store that you purchase them from. Are you kidding me? You really think you're gonna exude power? And I hope none of you went out and bought an outfit to wear here tonight because you thought you were going to be on television. Anybody else have a question about retirement? I'm going to move on. Whoever the mic goes to, yes. My name is Mary Sherwin. I just wanted to follow up on the difference between the two 401k plans.

8:02Yes. If you're contributing already to a 401k plan. A traditional one. Yes, a traditional one. What can you do about all of the money that you've already put into the traditional one? So you can, depending on your tax bracket, you can very slowly start to transfer it from the traditional to the Roth. However, that would depend on how many years you still have left before you want to retire. If you're 20 or 30 years of age and you still have another 30 or 40 years, that makes sense to do it. If you are older and you are going to retire in the next two, three, four years, that would not make any sense.

8:45So then you would leave the money that you have in the traditional 401K alone, and your new contributions would go into the Roth 401K. Except for whatever's matched by your employer. Yes, when your employer matches your contribution, you put money into your Roth 401K, their contribution will go into your traditional 401K. that's it all right let's move on I have a question who has a question I love that you just did that when I was ready to move on good for you girlfriend my question I don't know if many people can relate but I used to be an artist and I got tired of being broke so now I work in corporate America so what if you have a retirement fund I max it out every time get the 100 % match but I don't plan to actually retire.

9:35I plan to eventually, I don't know when this is airing, but hopefully soon leave my job, cash out, and start my own business. Would you advise against cashing out early? Or what would you have as a plan for something like that?

9:56I didn't just hear that right, did I? You plan to cash out your retirement plan? Yes. Your 401K. How old are you? I just turned 30. You just turned 30.

10:16That's why I'm here tonight, okay?

10:26Listen to me closely. How much do you have in your 401k? About$65 ,000. All right. You have$65 ,000. And just out of curiosity, when you withdraw the$65 ,000, how much of that$65 ,000 do you think you're going to have left? $30 ,000. If you're lucky. because the first thing you're going to have to do is pay a 10 % federal tax. That's$6 ,500. Now you're going to have to pay a penalty tax to who? New York. Then you're going to be taxed on all of it. So maybe you're going to have 30, 20. You really want to. And I just stood up on this stage. And I said what happened about compounding. Did you hear me talk about compounding?

11:15And did you hear me tell you how$100 could go over 45 years to a million, and you're talking about wasting$30 ,000 to do what with? To do what with? You are not going to do that. If you want to be an artist, then you have to be a powerful artist. And you will not be a powerful artist when you don't have any money. Well, I have 20 ,000 in stocks. I just don't want to touch that. Girlfriend, why in the world do you not want to touch your stock money that there's no penalty on, but you want to touch your retirement money? You think you're never going to get old like me? That really makes no sense.

12:05You leave your retirement money as it is. You will do an IRA rollover into a good discount brokerage firm, and you will start to invest that money. You will read women and money. You will do everything that I tell you to do in there. Thank you.

12:25However, you have $20 ,000 in stock that you can touch. Maybe it's appreciated in value. Maybe you've held it for more than a year, so if you did cash out, all you would pay is capital gains. If you were going to do this, listen closely to me now, wait to cash out that money if you have a gain in it, and hopefully you do given what's happened in the stock market, and if you don't, something's wrong there as well. right and wait until next year when you no longer have any income coming in and you're in a really low income tax bracket oh I'm not just another pretty face am I making sense why I want her to do that so if you do have a capital gain here or even really ordinary income over here because you didn't hold it for a it's not going to be that big of a deal for you.

13:29If you need that money to fulfill your dream, if that's what you want to do, then you can go ahead and do that. Got that? Yes, thank you. Now, why am I letting her do that? Because there comes a point in everybody's life that they have to go for it, and they have to do what they're passionate about. Remember when I said that my dad taught me the lesson that money was more important than life itself? That's not true. Life is more important than money. Life is more important than money, but it's the quality of the life that you live. lack of money can make people do really really crazy things all right now I will be the first to tell all of you money alone will never make you happy but I also will be the first to tell you lack of money sure will make you miserable got that so again the goal isn't just to have money, the goal is also for you to have power over your money, which is why I wrote the book Women and Money.

15:00If you want to find the best financial advisor in the world, look in the mirror, because nobody cares about your money more than you do. and what happens to your money directly affects the quality of your life not my life not your financial advisor's life but your life and money is not that difficult did I not stand here and did I not tell you that I was dyslexic that I couldn't read that I could not speak that I was a waitress that I didn't have an education that I came from a family without money and look at me now How? What makes you different than me? What? Nothing, except your own thoughts.

15:49Next law of money. Your thoughts create your reality. It is said to be very, very careful about what you think, because what you think you will eventually say. Be very careful about the words that you use, because what you say, you eventually do. Your actions become your habits, and your habits become your destiny. If you think you can't, ladies, you never, ever will. You have got to speak words of power. You have to have thoughts of power. You have to have belief in yourself, and you have got to stay away from other women that drag you down, or other men that drag you down. You have got to keep good company.

16:41I'll never forget, I had just finished writing The Nine Steps to Financial Freedom. And I was at a house with my friend and da-da-da-da, and it was Christmas, and everybody was to make a wish. And I said, I wish that Nine Steps to Financial Freedom becomes the best-selling book in the United States. nonfiction and everybody laughed at me they laughed at me and they said that's impossible Susie why don't you wish for something that you're going to get guess what I got it in 1998 the nine steps to financial freedom according to publishers weekly was the number one selling nonfiction book of all nonfiction hardback books in the United States

17:32So you have to be around people that say, you can do that. You can try that. Girlfriend, you want to be an artist? Be a best artist that this world has ever seen. Do not let yourself down. Do not let any excuses get in your way. Do not let yourself fail because it is your life and it only matters to you, so you draw a picture of extraordinary wealth, extraordinary happiness, extraordinary faith that God has you in His hands, so let Him draw for you, girlfriend.

18:11Let me talk briefly about life insurance because somebody had a question about life insurance. Doesn't it feel good not to be forgotten? Doesn't it? Stand up and tell me what your question was. Hi, Susie. Thanks for remembering my question. I'm trying to build a passive income stream. I didn't remember your question. I remembered you. I appreciate that. No, wait. Wait. I remembered you. Why did I remember you? I'm in the front row. Yeah. That's right. Okay, go on. No, wait, wait, seriously. Wait a minute, right? I remembered you because something about you made an impression upon me, all right?

19:05I don't need to know what it was, but it was a sense of power. It was a sense of you needing to know something, and I came back to you. never forget the power that you have to draw somebody to you don't forget that all right all right go on um she can't remember her question now no that's incredible you're actually on my vision board at home so this is this is here i am right now here i am right now yeah

19:45Now, did she draw me here or did I draw you here?

19:56I think it was you who drew me here. I have to tell you, this is the truth. Wait, and then I'll get to your damn question. which is many people said because I was I'm only giving one talk on this and that's it throughout the United States and that's it right and it's here and

20:24and there are many people whose names you would know so therefore I won't mention them that said, you don't want to play the Apollo. You don't need to play the Apollo, Susie. Play Midtown, play another state, play whatever. And I was like, no, I had a dream for some reason. I've had this dream to play the Apollo, and I bet it happened the day that you put me on your vision board. So we all need to thank this woman right here.

21:05All right, girlfriend, now ask your question. Susie, I want to retire as soon as possible. Why? Why do you want to retire? How old are you? I'm 29. Are you part of this fire movement that Adam from Money Magazine, who's right back there, was telling me about yesterday that I'm like, you're kidding me, right? Is that what the, you, go on. And so I want to build a passive income stream, and I've been doing it through rental real estate, but it's not happening fast enough. And so I wanted to know your thoughts on LERPs, the life insurance retirement plan. Listen, it doesn't matter what investment we're talking about right now.

21:56You, I don't know how many millions of dollars do you have. Do you have millions and millions? Not yet. Do you have at least one million? Depends on how you count it. Right. How about if we take away all the mortgages and all the debt and everything, do you have like$500 ,000? Do you have like$200 ,000? Yeah. Girlfriend, you can't afford, you are denied.

22:33Please listen to me and listen to me closely. All right? The average life expectancy now is into the 80s and 90s. My mother died at 97. Women live longer than men. That is because we are killing them off.

22:59My daddy died at 71. But it's true. Women live longer than men. Therefore, your money has got to last you, not from 29 to 39 to 49 to 59 to 69 to 79 to 89, but to 99. And there is no way, no investment, no matter the life insurance, real estate, anything, is going to get you to 99 if you don't have another source of income building in to build up that money. Hi, it's Ashley from OWN. So we have been renovating our garage and it has been such an exciting project. We took the garage door down and installed large, beautiful sliding glass doors. We quickly realized we needed curtains for privacy and I found the perfect ones on Wayfair.

23:55Shipping was incredibly fast and customer service was helpful with getting us a replacement as I initially ordered the wrong length. It has completely elevated the space and is becoming our favorite place to unwind. Wayfair helps you create a home that stands up to real life with quality products, great value, and trusted reviews. Wayfair verified products are hand-vetted by product specialists using a 10-point quality inspection. More than 20 million verified five-star reviews help shoppers buy with confidence. Plus, Wayfair Rewards members 5 % back on every purchase. Transform your space with pieces that hold up to real life.

24:32Join Wayfair Rewards today and get 5 % back on every purchase. Head to Wayfair.com or shop the Wayfair app for all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home.

24:51Your call has been forwarded to an automatic voice message system. A missed call doesn't feel like anything. No red flag, no notifications screaming at you. It just disappears into your call log. And nine times out of ten, that was someone ready to hand you money. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q-U-O, the business phone system built so you never miss a call. Here's what I like about it. All your calls, texts, and voicemails live in one place, so anyone on your team can pick up a conversation, see the full history, and respond fast. No more, wait, who talked to this customer last?

25:27And if you're worried about after-hours leads slipping through, Quo's optional built-in AI agent can answer questions and even book appointments while your team's offline. It's the number one rated business phone system on G2, and over 90 ,000 businesses already trust it to stay reachable. Money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free. Plus, get 20 % off your first six months when you go to Quo.com slash tech. That's Q-U-O dot com slash tech. At 29, you should not be thinking about you want to retire. You know what you should be thinking about? That I love what I do so much that I never want to give this up.

26:11And why do we hate what we do? because we have our personal life and we have our professional life. Wrong. You need one life. Your professional life is your personal life and your personal life, in my opinion, is your professional life. And you should be happy doing both of them because it is your life. And if you don't like living one part of your life, change it. Change it. And the time that you can change it is when you are younger, is when you can make mistakes, is when you can say, okay, if you have a quarter million dollars at the age of 29, you can change what it is that you are doing. I love what I do.

27:06Do you think I do this to make money anymore? No. You know how it makes me so mad when people say, how much money is enough money? How much money does somebody need? Did it ever occur to any of you it's never about the money anymore? It's about doing what you love. Can you see it in me? I love this. I love this. And I'm lucky enough that what I love makes me money. but half the time that I do something, I don't make any money. And why would I do that? Because I do love you, and I do care about you. Right? But with that said, I also want to say one other thing. every woman needs a woman who cares about them.

28:10And I will forever believe behind every great woman is an even greater woman. And when you get the book, you will see that I have dedicated that book to a woman by the name of Esther Margolis. and back in 1994 I wrote a book or wanted to write a book working title called keeping your gold in the golden years and I simply wanted to do it to impress my clients I had my own brokerage firm at the time and I just wanted to do that and I showed that book to Simon and Schuster to to Random House, to Penguin, to every single HarperCollins publisher out there. And it was like, no, no, no. Who needs a finance book written by a woman in 1994?

29:05Except one publisher. One publisher that said, come and see me when you're in New York. And I sat down with Esther and I started to tell her my story. And in a few minutes, Esther said, stop. and she had her entire office come in to her office and said start again tell them your story before you knew it I had a$10 ,000 book advance and she was going to give me 50 copies of a book that she named you've earned it don't lose it and I'm like are you kidding me you're gonna pay me$10 ,000 to write a book for me to give my clients this is a great thing and then she told me I had to go on a book tour.

29:49And the first print run of that book was, I believe, 15 ,000 copies. And that meant that all the bookstores had two copies, three copies, no copies. And Esther sent me on a 25, 26, 20, a lot city book tour that she had to pay for. And I went and nobody showed up. oh no no stop with that every those things I would go didn't I jump what is wrong with you women right and I was scared and I didn't know what to do and Esther was the one who got me originally on QVC and she would go with me and she would hold my hand and because of Esther Margolis's courage to see what I couldn't see in myself and no other publishers could see in me.

30:45Millions and millions and millions of women's lives have been changed. Esther, can you please stand up?

31:18You know, what's fascinating, everybody, is I myself am getting older at the age of 67, knowing that shortly I'm going to be 70 and so on. And you realize that, you know, you're getting older and the young ones are coming up and they'll replace you. And one day, will you be forgotten? Will you not? we can't forget our matriarchs. We can't forget the women. That set the bar. So the question is, who is your Esther in your life? Who is your Esther in your life? Because all of us have an Esther. And who do you want to be an Esther for? right mama you want to be an esther for your children and girls you want to be an esther for your children or your friends or people you don't even know and so again esther from the bottom of my heart you know as i look out on the audience today i see quite a few people I see Julie Grau, who is my publisher of all my books, including this one, and Susan Cochran and Michelle, who are the publicists, and Nancy Friend, and Sandy Mendelsohn, who was my very first publicist, and all these people.

32:47And I'm just curious where Judy Jacqueline is. Where is she? Judy, stand up. Judy Jacqueline Belushi was John Belushi's wife. Stay standing, Jutes. And was my college roommate.

33:14John, Judy, and I shared a bedroom. right and we had one hell of an animal house didn't we girlfriend we did and for anybody else that's out there that's really just been a part of my life I just really want to thank you and one last woman which is Sarah Puel I don't know if you've been listening to the women and money podcast they'll be coming up again we did a series of 13 but Sarah is my co-host on it and just fabulous. All right. Now, where should we go from here? What else do you need to know about?

34:01What was it? Buying a house. Buying a house. Let's talk about that, all right? Listen, I'll get you. I'm not going anywhere. Listen, I'll stay here as long as you want, right? But we said it was going to be a two-hour show. Suzy? Yes. Question here? Where are you? Back here? Way back in the back. Gotcha. All right. Yes. Susie Oh, such a pleasure to be here with you. Thank you. As an entrepreneur, I actually have money now. And when I started the business, I would listen to you, but I had no money to do anything with. So since the last 10 years, my business has grown, and I've been completely blessed.

34:42So everything you talk about, about loving what you do, every single day, I get to do what I love. It doesn't feel like work. And now sitting, I have a small nest egg just sitting in cash. Yes. And my concern is that I finally have something to show for my effort and my perseverance over the years, and I'm just afraid it's going to sit there. And so what is your thought about now that you have some money, what do you do with it as an entrepreneur? Do you have any credit card debt at all? No. Do you own a home? No. Do you want to own a home? No. No.

35:19Do you have any debt on any level? No. No. Do you have at least an eight-month emergency fund? One year. One year. Do you have, besides that one year of an emergency fund, now do you have money that you can invest? Yes, ma 'am. With your own company that you have owned, do you have a SEP IRA or a Keough plan? Do you have retirement accounts? Yes, ma 'am. And do you max them out? I do, but after what you're saying today, I'm a little confused because I'm in a traditional account a traditional IRA a traditional 401k what are you in traditional IRA and a SEP and my accountant had said be in traditional because you can take it as a tax write off of course they did so do I transition that into an IRA Roth and forget the tax write-off if you qualify yes so did you yeah that's what I said earlier remember that law invest in the known versus the unknown remember that part of the talk?

36:14Yes. Okay, good. So, no, but very seriously, I don't care about tax write-offs today. I don't care about them. What I care about is later on in the future, what you see in your accounts is what you're going to get. Just what if to deal with the deficits that we have right now, tax brackets started to go up and up and up. Is that possible, especially after 10 years, when there are 10 years that this tax cut goes away? Is that possible that we're gonna be slapped with some of the biggest tax brackets of our life? I don't know, but it is possible. What I do know is if I invest and pay the taxes today, then I get to have 100 % of that money and all of its growth any time I want.

37:04So that later on in life, all of a sudden you go, oh, you know what, I do want to own a home. I have$2 million in there. I'll take out$1 million and just buy a home for cash. You couldn't do that with the traditional. And if you have children or any other beneficiaries, when you leave them money via a traditional 401k or a traditional IRA, they now have only a few years to get that money out, and they are taxed at their tax brackets. Oh, they won't take it over a few years. they'll take it right away. They'll be like this one or that one wherever she was over there, right? Gone and they'll lose half of it to income tax.

37:49So yes, start doing your SEP IRA. You can convert to your Roth IRAs. However, be careful because that will now add to your tax bracket. So you'll have to figure that out with this CPA that's advising you and maybe you want a different one I'm not sure. I do, I do, yes. Oh how do I have that feeling? Is it a man or a woman? A man. Oh how do I have that feeling? No really and let me just tell you this very brief story. So I went to see some CPA that was recommended by everybody, my agent, my this, my that, and I go see him And I tell him I'm going to buy now an investment, a house and everything for$800 ,000.

38:34And I wanted to pay cash for it. And he said, why would you pay cash for it when you can get a write-off and everything? I said, because I don't want debt. I want to be powerful. And in my mind, debt is bondage, and bondage is not good. And he said, that makes absolutely no sense financially speaking. I said, did you ever think about that there's another side to finances, and it's called personal empowerment? What makes you feel, what's the goal of money? To be secure. What makes you feel secure? Nothing makes a woman feel more secure than owning her own home outright. So I got up, and I walked out, and I left.

39:20Only use advisors that resonate within your soul. If you have a gut feeling that that's not the right person for you, do not worry about hurting their feelings, okay? You get up and you leave. So check with the CPA first and find out. But start getting your money now into Roth IRA situations for yourself. And congratulations. All right. Thank you. Let me see. All right. A few more. You wanted me to talk about real estate. Let me just go there for a second. We're in New York, people. Does it really make sense to own property in New York at this point in time? I don't think so. And I don't think so buying a home for your own, right?

40:15Forget about investment property. That's a whole other thing that whatever, right? But it's unless you have a lot of money and you can put 20 % down or minimum 10 % and you can afford the mortgage rates and the property taxes and the condo or the co-op fees and all of those things, all right if you want to. But I see a situation where interest rates are starting to go up. I see a situation where things can start to change in the next year or two within this economy, especially in May 2000 or November 2020. I think we have to be careful financially speaking. All right? So I personally would not be buying right now.

41:09That doesn't mean that you shouldn't. Maybe you have a good buy. Maybe it's what you do. but it's not something that I would probably do right here and right now. Is there a time that I would do it? Maybe. But as interest rates are going up, mortgages are becoming more expensive. As mortgages become more expensive, houses tend to start to go down. So it's not something that I love as an investment right here. However, for those of you who do own a home and you want to stay in that home for the rest of your lives, you need to make it your number one priority to have the mortgage on that home paid off by the time you retire at 30 years of age.

41:58Okay? Why? Listen to me closely. Interest rates right now are getting higher. Let's say you don't have the best credit score and now if you're going to get a mortgage, just let's say it's at 6%. Let's just say that's true. And let's say somehow you're able to find a home for$200 ,000. I get it, but just stick with me here for a second. $200 ,000 30-year mortgage is$1 ,200 a month, is$14 ,400 a year. Do you know after 20 years of pain, $1 ,200 a month on a$200 ,000 mortgage, do you know that you would still owe$100 ,000 on that mortgage? In 20 years, you only pay down 50%, but you still have to pay$14 ,400 a year for that mortgage.

43:02How much do you need in a retirement account, especially if it is a traditional retirement account, in order to pay$14 ,400 a year on that mortgage, you would need about$400 ,000 to$500 ,000 in a retirement account at 4 % or 5 % to be able to take money out after taxes so you would have$14 ,400 a year to pay your mortgage. Don't you think it's just easier to pay off a$100 ,000 mortgage than it is to save for$500 ,000 to pay that mortgage? And everybody says, but I won't get a tax write-off anymore. You got your tax write-off in the first years that you had the mortgage. The banks want to get all their interest up front in the first seven years because they know it is possible you might sell that home in seven years So they want the interest on the 30 years up front in the seven years so that later on you don't get a tax write-off anymore, but they got all of their interest.

44:14Do you get that, people? So don't worry about the tax write-offs later on because they do not matter. You understand that? And it doesn't matter if you buy a home or not. It really doesn't. You can invest money. You can save money. You can do anything that you want. Real estate is an illiquid investment. You can't just make a call and say, sell, buy. You have to put it on the market. You have to buy new air conditioners. You have to deal with natural disasters. You have to deal, if it's an investment, with your tenants not paying you, and on and on. So just think about that. Stock market. I just want to say this.

45:01All of you, because I heard you kind of, uh, when I said just November 2020. Listen, this market's been going up for quite a while, straight up, all right? And don't you all wish that you had stayed in the stock market or bought everything in the year 2008 when everything had gone down, all right? You should all, if you have 20, 30, 40 years till you need your money, you should be wishing and a-praying and a-hoping that the stock market goes down. Goes down. Why? Same way you wait to close, go on sale, and that's when you go to buy it. When the market goes down, you're going to start using a technique called dollar cost averaging.

45:53This is how all of you are going to start investing. You are not going to take a lump sum of money and put it all in the stock market today. So you back there have a lump sum of money that you can invest. That is not how you are going to invest. You are going to take that money, and maybe let's say it's$12 ,000, and you're going to divide it by 12. and you're going to take$1 ,000 a month or whatever amount it is. I don't care if it's$50. I don't care if it's$100. But you're going to take that amount of money every single month and you're going to invest that in to the Standard & Poor's 500 Index Fund if you don't know anything else to do with it.

46:39When the market goes down, the shares of the Standard & Poor's 500 Index Fund, which is simply a fund that has all the stocks in it, what you're going to do is you are going to take your money, and when the market goes down, the shares of the Standard & Poor's 500 Index Fund will go down. Your dollars buy more shares. At$10, if you're putting in$100, you buy 10 shares. At$5, you buy 20 shares. When the market goes up, your dollars buy less shares. Are you following me? But over time, you have averaged the cost of your dollars in all that you have purchased, and you will come out further ahead.

47:31And so if you just did that month in and month out, hoping that this market goes down and down and down and not stopping to invest when the market goes down, not stopping to invest when the market goes up, and just stick with that year over year over year. I promise you, you will be very happy, healthy, and wealthy women. So don't get upset if the markets go down. Keep your sanity about you. Your call has been forwarded to an automatic voice message system. A missed call doesn't feel like anything. No red flag. No notifications screaming at you. It just disappears into your call log. And nine times out of ten, that was someone ready to hand you money.

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49:43Take the first step to make your impact. Visit waldenu.edu. Walden University. Set a course for change. Certified to operate by Shev. I have a few more minutes, so a few more questions. So what is down in the stock market? The stock market can go down 10%, 20%. It can go down a lot. You know, it can go down 50%. It can go down 70%. I don't care what it does go down. Nobody can ever say how much down. Just keep doing it. You're young. You're beautiful. Don't you want to have a lot of money? Right? So just don't worry about how far down is down. When you're buying the Standard & Poor's 500 Index, you're buying all the stocks.

50:37So it's fine. Just keep doing it, because there's no way to know when it's going to turn around and go back up, like it did in May of 2009. Right? Hi, Suzy. Lisa, over here. Wherever you are. Hi, this way. Yes, yes, ma 'am. OK, so I think I'm your best student. I met you probably about a decade ago. How do I look? Well, you know, I met you virtually. I found out about you as a young college student who had a lot of credit card debt and was living paycheck to paycheck. And I bought your book and I studied you. I got a pen, a pad, and I listened to everything you said. Now, I'm 39 years old. I was a single mother at the time.

51:21and the one thing you told me that stuck in my head was pay yourself first. Yes. And I said, okay, how am I going to pay myself first when I have all these bills and at the end of the month I'm negative, I'm negative. So I decided, you know what, these bills will always be here. The cable bill will be here. The phone bill will be here. I'm going to take the money and I'm going to pay myself first. In that time, what I did was I took all the credit card debt. But wait, stop, because I'm running out of time. Ask me your question. I'm sorry. the question. Yeah, do you have a question or do you just have a statement?

51:54Well, no, there is a question at the end of it, but I want to tell you that the question is formulated around debt, because I still have a debt situation. All right, tell me it. So, I've realized that if you pay all your debt, you really can't get rid of it. The way you get rid of it is actually to stop paying it. So what I did, let me tell you the trick. No, I know what she did. No, I'll explain it to them. But what is your question? So you explain it to them because I explain it to my friends, and that's actually how I got out of debt very fast. But you ruined your FICO score. No, I didn't. It bounced down for a little bit and bounced right back up because I had money, so now, and I stopped buying things, I stopped purchasing things, I lived below my meat.

52:40I thought, what is your question? Okay, so the question is... You're killing me here. Okay, so the question is, in all of that time, I accumulated a lot of money. I bought a house. I paid it off. And now the only thing I have left is student loan debt. That now I have all this money, and I'm looking at my bank accounts thinking, I don't want to pay that. And so how I got out of my mortgage, I have a house paid in all. Stop, stop, stop. I want you to stop. How do I now do that? No, no, stop. Please stop. All right, listen to me. And my credit score is over 700. All right. I want you to listen to me closely.

53:20You love me, right? I do, but I don't want to pay that student loan debt. I need you to listen to me. Okay. And it's not past due, by the way. Right. You may have manipulated your way out of credit card debt. No, I didn't manipulate it. Wait, just listen. No, really, listen to me. You may have, however you got out of credit card debt, you got out of it. Right. However you paid your mortgage off, you did that. When it comes to student loan debt, all of you listen to me and you listen to me closely. The most dangerous debt in life is student loan debt because it cannot be discharged in bankruptcy or any other way in 99.9 % of the cases.

54:03and they will just love you if you stop paying it and you go into default deferment or forbearance because$40 ,000 goes into$80 ,000, grows into$160 ,000, grows into$250 ,000 and more and that's when they come knock, knock, knocking on your door and they have the legal authority without having to sue you. They have the legal authority to garnish your wages, garnish your social security check and put you through hell, girlfriend. Okay, so I negotiated some of the... No, I'm not taking any more. Listen, I don't care what you did and what you didn't do. I do not want all of you to... If you have debt because you charged something, I need you to hear this, right?

54:54It's not about getting out of the debt because when you get out of debt, somebody else has paid that debt for you.

55:07And there is a financial karma in life. There is. And when you create a situation for yourself, you have to stand in your truth and be responsible to what you did. Because either a merchant has been stiffed for that debt or the bank who lends you the money has been stiffed for that debt. and I'm so glad that you're out of debt, but getting out of debt and accumulating money doesn't mean in the long run you're going to get to keep that money. Listen to me closely. I'm serious. The goal of life is for you to do what's right, not for you to do what's easy. No, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, wait, wait.

55:59And I'm not saying, right, that you didn't do what's right or whatever, because I don't have time, really. I have literally, like, five minutes left, and I'm not going to have this entire audience go into your personal situation. I just can't do that, right? But it's not a message that I want all of you to think about here. It's just not. I just have to say something before I answer a few more questions, And that's the women that are sitting over here. All right? Recently, I did seven interviews with women who were survivors of domestic abuse. And I did this for the National Domestic Abuse Hotline.

56:52And these women were the most extraordinary women and strong women I have ever met. You guys can stand up. Go on. You know who you are.

57:19And these women should be our role models, right? Our role models of what's possible. But something very fascinating happened when we were all talking. And what happened was that they all listened to each other's interviews. And one by one, they discovered that they all suffered financial abuse. And none of them knew that they had suffered financial abuse because it didn't have a black and blue mark on it. and my the reason that I'm bringing that up right here is that I don't want us any of us in this room to suffer financial abuse and just ignore it so if you're in a situation where your partner is paying and making you give them their paycheck controlling every penny stealing money from you not letting you have a penny.

58:25They all left intelligent, vibrant, great women who came into the relationships with money. You know, some with a house, some with a job, and they all left without a penny to their name, the clothes on their back, and their children in their arms. What's fabulous is they're all making it now, and they're all making it on their own. So for the national...

59:01So I just want to tell you, you need to make sure that if you're in a relationship, please be honest with yourselves. Domestic financial abuse is rampant. To be a strong, secure, and smart woman, You need to have your own credit cards. You need to have your own bank accounts. You need to be able to see where every penny is being spent. You need to pay the bills jointly. You need to look at the tax returns together before you put your name on it, and then you find out that he or she committed fraud. All right? And you can do that. And I just want to say it's good to see you guys again, and I'm honored to be in your presence, really.

59:57Okay, let me see where I am here. A few more questions. Who has the mic? Yes. Hi, Susie. Wanted to see if you could address the HSAs. When you talk about planning for retirement, that's the one piece that you didn't touch on. All right, so an HSA is a health savings account, which is also known as a high deductible insurance account for your health. Does your employer put in any money as a seed for your HSA? No. When they don't put in money as a seed, they then can become a little bit difficult because of how they work. If your employer seeds your HSA, I love HSAs. Too complicated to explain in five minutes.

1:00:43If your employer does not seed, I don't love them as much. But if you do not have a choice, an HSA, and I know I'm talking above your heads right now for many of you, is the best retirement account out there. Because when you go to take your money out at 65, you get a tax deduction for the money that you put in and when you take it out you get to take it out tax free if it's for a qualified medical expense. I love them. You just have to have enough money to pay your bills. Sorry if you don't know what I'm talking about but that's it. One more and that is it. Life insurance. Let me talk about insurance.

1:01:28Listen to me. Life insurance was never meant to be a permanent deed. It was only meant to be there during your younger years before you had money in case you suffered a loss of somebody who was financially dependent on you or you on them. The only type of life insurance that I think you should get is term insurance. When you go into the book, Women and Money, you are going to find that there is a website that you get to go to. It's actually suzyormand.com slash women. And on that website, you are going to find a debt eliminator. You're going to find an expense tracker. You're going to find all kinds of tools that you can use to figure everything out in the actual book, Women and Money.

1:02:23I explain to you in great detail exactly how much insurance you need, how long you need insurance for, and if you just follow that book, I am telling you all of your questions will be answered. Last but not least, because we didn't have time to touch on it, every single one of you in this room needs an advanced directive, a durable power of attorney for health care, a living revocable trust and a will. You need that. Children, minors, cannot inherit money, people. So if you have kids and you leave your money to your minor kids, that money will go into a blocked account until they are 18 or they do a court order to get that money.

1:03:19A will is not enough. A will is simply a document that says where your assets go upon your death. And it does it in the most ineffective, cost way possible. What happens if you don't die? Eventually, you will. But what if you don't die and you are in a car accident or you have a stroke or you become incapacitated ladies? who is going to pay your bills for you? Who is going to write your checks for you? A will is not going to help you. You need a living revocable trust. Living, you do it while you are alive. Revocable, you can change it anytime you want. Trust is the name of the document. I have, in fact, my mother, let's say, has a home in California or even New York, but let's just say California because my friends from California are here.

1:04:27Paula Canney, who's the best defense lawyer. I just have to say one other thing about Paula. Paula, stand up for one second seriously, right? Paula is also one of my oldest friends in life. I want to just tell you what this woman is doing. She is an incredible criminal defense lawyer in California who is now going from county to county to make the laws change so that women in prison have their tampons paid for by the state.

1:05:05Because the women in prison have to pay for their own tampons and they don't have the money to do so. I don't care where you are. If you're a woman, you deserve dignity, either inside prison or outside, and that woman is trying to do that.

1:05:28So there you are in the state of California. My mother has a$200 ,000 home, and she wants me to have that home. I'm living in that home with her. And the title to that home is Ann Orman. And my mother dies and she has a will that says I'm to get that house. She's dead. I have a piece of paper. How do I get the title of that house from her name into my name? I have to give it to a lawyer who takes it down to probate court. In the state of California, that will be six months to two years for a judge to validate the will, making sure mommy wants me to have it, and then sign the title from her name over to me.

1:06:15In the state of California, that will cost me about $17 ,000 to$19 ,000 statutory. What happens if I don't have that money? The house can be sold to pay the lawyers like Paula, right? So anyway, right? She likes that idea, right? So do you understand that? The house can be sold. What could mommy have done? She could have taken the steps while she was alive to transfer the title of the house from her name into the title of the trust, help for her benefit while she was alive, my benefit after she died. She dies, I get it two weeks later, maybe$800 in transfer fees. Are you crazy? If you have a living revocable trust with an incapacity clause and something goes wrong, you've already decided who can sign for you.

1:07:11People, things go wrong. When you go to suzyorman.com slash women, you will also find a place that you can get. this one you do have to pay for, but it's$69,$2 ,500 worth of state-of-the-art documents that are good in all 50 states. They are my will, my trust. If you looked at my documents, that's what these documents are. So when you go on there and you do it and you get your activation code, you get to do it and come back anytime you want. Here's what's great about the activation code. Share that activation code with your mothers and your fathers and your sisters and your brothers and anybody you want.

1:07:57So the goal here is every one of you has the documents in place today to protect your tomorrows. The goal of tonight was for you to be secure. Here's what I want to leave you with. Every single one of us enters this world with two wings. One wing is the wing of grace. That wing is flapping by your side 24 hours a day, seven days a week from now until eternity. The wing that you bring into this world is the wing of self-effort. When that wing of self-effort flaps equally as hard as that wing of grace, I promise you, you will have flight into the world of unlimited possibilities where anything and everything is possible.

1:08:53Financial freedom is your birthright. It is your birthright to be strong, smart, and secure women. It is your birthright to have power over your money. It is your birthright to have power over your lives. And you can do that right here and right now. You just have to make the decision to be the powerful women you were born to be. May financial freedom bless each and every one of your doorsteps. And may God bless each and every one of you. Thank you, Apollo!

1:09:35We apologize. We are here. We are here. We are here. We will survive. We are here. We are here. We are here. Everything is at least. We are strong. We are wise. And together we'll survive.

1:09:57I'm Oprah Winfrey, and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Join me next week for another Super Soul conversation. Thank you for listening.

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