Max Lugavere on How to Boost Brain Health Through Diet | EP 556

27:20For me, it's upsetting because I'm so close to the film. It's a film about my mother that was done with zero commercial intent and it has taken me 10 years to complete. But I guess it is what it is. I'm just grateful that the audience that the film deserves has found the film and that the audience reviews, which are the most important to me, not critic reviews, audience reviews, have been overwhelmingly positive. Again, 100 % on Rotten Tomatoes. Well, thank you for sharing that. And one of the people I want to introduce this to is my uncle, who was a researcher at Northwestern University for many years, and you'll find this interesting, his research was focused on the families of those who were experiencing dementia and what does dementia's ripple effects do to family systems and caregivers and loved ones.

28:11So I'm sure this will be a topic he would very much love to watch and be part of. So going through this and interviewing all the people that you did, what are some of the biggest misconceptions that people might have about cognitive decline? And how did you aim to address or correct those narratives? is? I think there are a few misconceptions. When starting out, I realized that if I could do anything, it was to correct. And these are misconceptions that I identified, at least in part, because they were misconceptions that I myself had harbored. One is that these conditions are genetic, that they're inherited, which I learned very early on was not in fact the case for the vast majority of cases.

29:04And this became viscerally apparent to me when I realized that my maternal grandmother, my mom's mom, lived until 96 and was cognitively intact until the very end. And in fact, my grandmother was living with my mom. And there were a good number of years prior to my grandmother's passing where my grandmother's cognition was better than my mother's. And my grandmother was 30 to 40 years her senior. And so that was very odd that my grandmother was cognitively perfectly healthy and sharp. And her daughter was actually the one who was succumbing to dementia, this condition that we often associate with older people.

29:48To me, the question became very early on, what changed? Like what changed in between my grandmother's generation and my mother's that led to my mom developing this condition, and yet my grandmother was seemingly inoculated against it. Another misconception that I had was that these conditions were diseases of aging, that they were a natural part of the aging process, which again, you know, using my own grandmother as an anecdote didn't seem to be the case. And my mom was very young. And then finally, I think I learned that one of the things that makes these conditions so hard to treat once they've set in is that they begin years, if not decades prior to the onset of symptoms, similar to heart disease, cancer.

30:40I mean, these conditions don't begin overnight. They're simmering under the surface preclinically for decades. And so that gives us a really powerful window of opportunity to change the course of our cognitive destiny. And I realized that I was only interested in these topics because I was seeing it up close and personal with a loved one who had the condition. But the fact that I could start to implement whether dietary or lifestyle interventions in my own life that might not with 100 % certainty prevent me from ever developing a condition like Alzheimer's disease or Parkinson's disease, but could, according to the best available evidence, lower or minimize my risk for these conditions?

31:27Well, that was a really powerful call to action for me. But the only reason why I was interested in taking those steps was because I had a loved one with the condition. But what if I could get this information out to the public at large that, hey, these conditions, which we tend to assume are inevitable, natural, there is a natural aspects of aging or inherited, if none of those are in fact the case, and we can actually take steps today to improve our odds 10, 20, 30 years down the line of having a better fighting chance against these kinds of conditions for which there is no effective pharmaceutical treatment.

32:07Well, then that was something that I felt really inspired to do. And so those were some of the misconceptions that I realized I had been harboring and that were in fact misconceptions. And so a lot of my work has been about debunking that. We really do have a lot of agency when it comes to our brain health. There's a lot that we can do. And diet, I love to talk about diet. Anybody who finds me on social media, I'm a big nutrition nerd, but diet is just one thin slice of the pie. There are so many other factors, variables that fall within our control. And so being a sort of walking meta-analysis for this topic has become one of my missions.

32:43And all that is to say that there is a lot that we can do, whether it's diet, whether it's lifestyle, whether it's various medical risk factors that we can attend to, there is a ton that we can do. And I just don't want anybody to feel helpless or hopeless about these conditions. Okay. And Max, I have a follow-up question for you around these misconceptions, but I'm going to spin this a little bit different way. One of your major goals has been to make brain health a topic of interest for younger audiences. And you've just talked about how over time we have the opportunity to change our trajectory, which is something I completely support as well.

33:23Why is it so critical for people in their 20s and 30s to take proactive steps now? And where would be some of the easiest starting points for them to focus on? One of the things that I think is really important to wrap your head around is that these are conditions of midlife with symptoms that appear in late life. And this was actually one of the reasons why I decided to undertake writing a book. My first book, Genius Foods, really was a project that was undertaken when I came to the realization that the same steps that you might take to batten down the hatches and reduce your risk for these conditions 10, 20, 30 years down the line, also seem to improve the way that your brain works in the here and now.

34:07So while I would understand why a 20 or 30 year old might not be all that concerned with dementia during this phase of life, there's now a burgeoning field of science known as nutritional psychiatry, which makes the connection between our diets and our lifestyles, well specifically our diets, and the way that our brains work, our ability to show up in the world, our ability to focus, pay attention, tune out impulses, to have better mental health with regards to anxiety and depression. This field of nutritional psychiatry is incredibly exciting because depression, I think for many people, we tend to feel a sense of depression happening to us or a sense of perhaps moral failure around depression.

34:56But depression is natural. And there are many aspects of, I think, modern life that are pulling the trigger for so many of us with regards to these kinds of mental health conditions. I mean, today, so many of us are suffering from diseases of despair. And certainly there are aspects of life that will lead to depression. I was certainly very depressed during a lot of the time that my mom was suffering with this condition, particularly at the onset and as well as at the end of her life, but also much of how we treat ourselves today, whether we're talking about overly sedentary lifestyles or diets that are replete with ultra processed foods.

35:34I mean, for many, maybe not all, but for many people do actually elicit feelings of dour mood, of anxiety. And so to me, that was the real value add for younger people in their 20s and 30s who are really maybe just beginning their careers, or are starting to see repercussions of their diets and their lifestyles in terms of their mental health, that there really is an empowering story here. And that the same steps that you might take to reduce your risk for these kinds of conditions in midlife actually also seem to improve quality of life when young. And so that's why I actually named my first book Genius Foods, as opposed to the dementia of prevention foods because eating foods like, for example, avocado actually improve cognitive function.

36:22I mean, for example, avocado consumers seem to have better cognitive function across myriad cognitive domains than avocado non-consumers. And that's an observational study, but mechanistically it makes perfect sense when you consider the micronutrients and the phytonutrients that avocados contain. And that's just one example. Blueberries are another example of a food that we know directly supports cognitive health. There's a bounty of data linking blueberries to better cognitive performance. Dark chocolate, cacao flavanols are another food that can potentially boost brain function. And this is something that should appeal to anybody across the age spectrum.

36:59So to me, that's the empowering message is that this is not just about preventing a condition. It would be worth taking these steps and eating these foods to prevent these kinds of conditions that we're talking about. I think the exciting part of the story is that this is not just an investment. This is not just like a long-term investment. This is an investment that pays dividends, like serious dividends in the here and now. And that to me is part of the value add for younger people. Yeah. And if you had to name a few non-negotiables for people who want to protect their brain through nutrition, what would some of those be?

37:38Well, I would say today, the hierarchy that I use these days, and I try to remain open to changing my perspective as new data presents itself, or as my own thinking about diet and nutrition shifts. But today, I would say that my sort of food pyramid, it's a three-rung pyramid. And the first rung of the pyramid really is about prioritizing minimally processed whole foods. So today, 60 % of the calories that your average adult ingests comes from what are called ultra-processed foods. And these are the kinds of foods that are now being linked to myriad chronic diseases, whether we're talking cancer, heart disease, type 2 diabetes, obesity, also Alzheimer's disease and dementia, and worse mental health.

38:22These are the kinds of foods that tend to line our supermarket aisles. Now, your average supermarket today, 73 % of the items are characterized as being ultra-processed. and when I use the term ultra-processed I mean this is a very low resolution term at this stage we don't yet have the data to know exactly what types of ultra-processed foods are the most nefarious although that picture is starting to emerge we are starting to see that sugar sweetened beverages for example are among the worst like sodas and things like that but in general as a general screening tool shelf-stable packaged processed foods the kinds of foods that you might see in a hospital vending machine, unfortunately.

39:02These are the kinds of foods that are now being linked very strongly to chronic disease. So you want to avoid those to the best of your ability, which isn't to say that you can't have some here and there and be totally okay. You can. But again, today, your average adult, 60 % of the calories are coming from ultra-processed foods. I'd like to see that. I mean, I think 0%, it doesn't need to be 0%. It can be 10%. It could be maybe 20%. You'd still be doing a lot better off than your average adult today. But I think of that another way is if you go in the supermarket, shop around the center of the store.

39:34Shop around it. Yeah. On the periphery. Yes, exactly. And ultra processed foods, I mean, these are the cakes, the chips, the crackers, the confectionary products, even commercial breads these days. Frozen foods. I'm not talking about frozen fruits and vegetables. I'm talking about mixed dishes and essentially convenience foods that are loaded with preservatives that are usually nutrient depleted. Fried foods are a good example of ultra processed foods that you want to typically avoid unless you're frying them yourself. And a good heuristic for an ultra processed food is a food that you couldn't possibly make in your own kitchen if you tried.

40:11So these are foods that need to be made at commercial scale and couldn't be replicated at home unless you try to use additives that are not typically found in an average kitchen. you want to prioritize the minimally processed foods. I don't think that we should be extremists about our food choices. Now, obviously there are a lot of people today that have adopted carnivore style diets and many people are on for various reasons, plant only diets, vegan diets and things like that. I don't think that either extreme approach is ideal. And I think there's value to be gained from both sides of the aisle, so to speak.

40:50And so for me, integrating both animal source foods like grass fed, grass finished beef, free range eggs, free range chicken, there are lots of benefits to integrating those kinds of foods. But even if the foods with those specific characteristics are off limits to you, any lean red meat is going to be a health food when compared to its ultra processed alternatives. I don't like to let perfect be the enemy of the good if you don't have access to the most pristine grass-fed, grass-finished beef, I still think it's really important to underscore the nutritional value of red meat, despite it maybe coming from a more conventional farming system.

41:31Eggs. Any egg is a cognitive multivitamin. An egg yolk is literally a care package devised by nature to provide a little bit of everything required to grow a brain. and eggs are the top source of choline, for example. In the standard American diet, 90 % of adults consume inadequate amounts of, and yet it's one of the most important nutrients for good brain health. Eating eggs, eating wild fatty fish provides DHA fat. It's an incredibly important nutrient for good brain health. So I'm a huge fan of animal source foods and I advocate for them unapologetically, but I also think that plant foods are incredibly important as well.

42:07I've already talked about avocados, blueberries, dark chocolate are incredible. dark leafy greens are amazing. They have very low calorie density and they're very nutrient dense. Integrating both foods of plant and animal origin, I think is incredibly important. And then the top rung of my food pyramid to really get granular is to prioritize protein. And that's something that I might not have said five years ago, but I do think that there is tremendous value from the standpoint of aging and longevity and also of brain health specifically. Now data is starting to show of prioritizing protein in your diet.

42:38It's the best way to maintain muscle as we get older, which becomes increasingly difficult. And when we prioritize protein in our diets, protein-rich foods like red meat and eggs, they're not just valuable for the protein that they contain. They also contain myriad essential micronutrients. Again, choline, which I've mentioned, but zinc, like vitamin B12, iron, for example, creatine, which is concentrated in red meat and fish. And so I think that by prioritizing protein, I think it's a fantastic strategy. And there are a lot, there's essentially no downside to even over consuming protein, because it's, in part, one of the reasons why it's, I think, valuable to prioritize protein is because it's so satiating, it's the most satiating macronutrient.

43:24And we live in a time now where two thirds of adults are either overweight or obese. So this ultimately comes down to a satiety problem, that our diets are predominated by foods that are minimally satiating. So by prioritizing protein, you're not only prioritizing the most satiating macronutrient, it's going to fill you up more effectively carbohydrate and fat predominant foods. These foods also tend to bring along with the protein, the amino acids, really important micronutrients that directly support healthy aging. So I think that's a fantastic strategy, and there's no downside to over-consuming it for somebody with healthy kidneys.

44:06There's no negative impact on kidney health. The potential downside of under-consuming it, while there are a lot, you will tend to under-consume protein, which is a very important micronutrient, of course, but also the micronutrients that come alongside of it. This is known as the protein leverage hypothesis, which gives a rationale for that phenomena. And so, yeah, that's just scratching the surface, but those are the three rungs of my food pyramid, so to speak. Well, Max, I'm just going to give a shout out to the audience that if they want to dive deeper into some of the topics that you discussed earlier this year, I did a whole bunch of interviews covering all sides of this.

44:48Gabrielle Lyon really did deep dive on protein. I had Terry Walls and Morley Robbins, Cynthia Thurlow, Chris Kenobi, Eric Edmeades, talking about many of the other things that you covered. So I want to go into the topic of choices, because this is something that I talk a lot about on the podcast. You've written and talked a lot about how our choices in diet and lifestyle can transform our lives. What I want to ask you is a little bit different twist to this. How do you think this connects to living a purpose-driven, intentional life, which is a key theme of the podcast? That's a great question.

45:33I attribute the impact that I've had, which to me is the primary indicator of success that I use. How many people am I impacting? Is that impact a positive one? What kinds of feedback do I get? And I attribute my success in that regard to the fact that I am aligned with my purpose. And it took me a couple of decades to figure out what my purpose was. And my purpose obviously is something that I discovered by way of real personal tragedy, which is sometimes what it takes. but I feel aligned in the sense that you have to do what you can't not do. And I couldn't just sit back idly when I saw the most important person in my life suffering with this kind of awful condition, America's most feared condition, and being given 15 minutes in each doctor's office, at which point, after which a doctor would scribble a few notes on a prescription pad for a drug that had minimal effect, no disease modifying treatment, no disease modifying impact, and then send us on our way left to our own devices.

46:50And I realized at that point that I couldn't sit idly. I had to speak up. I had to stand up and learn all that I could, despite the fact that I didn't have a formal training in this regard. At that point, I was able to do an inventory of my skills as a storyteller, as a communicator. I wasn't an academic, but I realized that I had spent the past six years communicating delicate and important topics to a mass audience. And so that I knew that I was really good at thinking on the fly and on my feet and communicating responsibly because words are powerful. So when communicating topics such as health literacy to be really intentional about your word choice, which is something that I was very adept at.

47:40I realized that I was good at what it was that I was doing and that I enjoyed what I was doing. Despite the fact that this was all rooted in something that was very tragic for me, I knew, as I mentioned earlier in our conversation, John, that I love nutrition and health and talking about this stuff. This is something that I would be interested in learning about had my mom not developed this condition. I mean, I would probably be interested in learning about it from a different vantage point, more from a fitness standpoint. But all of these things had to align for me to realize that I was aligned with my purpose.

48:17After I had that realization, and I just simply proceeded to do what felt most natural to me, things really started to accelerate in terms of my professional opportunities. And I think it's really important for people to understand that you don't need to apologize for achieving a degree of commercial success, which I'm very grateful that I've been able to. My first book, Genius Foods, was a bestseller, and then my subsequent books have all been bestsellers. But I wouldn't be able to dedicate the time in my life to learning the amount of time that I allocate to learning about this topic every single day, right?

48:53Not able to pay my rent what it is that I'm doing. The fact that I have a commercially successful podcast, for example, I wouldn't be able to dedicate such a significant proportion of my life to learning about this topic and the rigor that I dedicate to investigating nutrition science as a non-academic had I not been able to, from early on, start to make money with what it is that I do. So you have to find a way to identify what your passions are, but it's not to just be passionate. You have to also identify what your purpose is. And my purpose obviously had something to do with storytelling and communication.

49:33I recognized that early on. But then you also have to be able to find a way to commercialize it in a way that is responsible and doesn't involve selling your soul and compromising your integrity and your values in doing so. Because money is in a way, a form of energy. And because I'm able to keep a roof over my head doing what it is that I do, not distracting myself with other things. It's made me better at what it is that I do. A lot of documentary filmmakers, for example, they have their one documentary passion project and they'll produce ads. They'll do marketing to pay their rent. I had the idea of doing this long form documentary about dementia prevention, which is not something that has ever been undertaken before.

50:19And rather than go and try to make films for hire for other people. I just continued to learn about this topic that I was filming during the day. But then I started writing about it. And I started creating social media content about it. And then I started having broader conversations about it on my podcast, The Genius Life. And all of that sort of created this pie that at first wasn't very profitable. But there were signs that this might be profitable, which just further cemented the initiatives that I was taking to dedicate time to these various different arms of my business. And then ultimately it became something that allowed me to focus full time on health science communication.

51:00And I'm so incredibly grateful that I've been able to do that as a result. But yeah, it all comes back to purpose and passion. And the fact that I wake up every single day excited to read new science, to read a new paper, to get better at understanding science and to get better at assessing scientific literature, which is something that it's a skill that you're always improving on. And I attribute it all to really getting to focus on this full time. And part of that has to do with recognizing my purpose and not just being focused on the passion side of things, but also the purpose and being able to do a self-inventory of things that I know that I'm capable of, knowing where I could use a little bit of help and so on and so forth.

51:44Max, if there's one mindset shift or habit for someone who's listened to today's episode, you hope that listener adopts after hearing our episode, what would it be? I think it's important to remain open-minded and to never let go of that student mindset, to always be learning and seeking out answers and better answers, and to always be willing to pivot when new data presents itself. Just to always be learning, sharing and improving and having a growth mindset about things. I think that's really important. When my mom became sick, I didn't sit idly on my hands and take a passive approach. I took an active approach in her health.

52:29And in so doing, I learned more than I ever thought I would about these kinds of conditions, which so many people seem to be suffering from. The mindset that I credit, despite the fact that I hadn't gone down this traditional path, I felt entitled to answers. And that entitlement compelled me forward to ask questions that I might have felt I wasn't able to ask had I had a different mindset about them of exclusion where I'm not a medical doctor or an academic scientist. I should just assume that these questions are being asked by the so-called experts. But no, I think we should all, there's a degree of entitlement that I think you have to have.

53:10Malcolm Gladwell talks about this in his book, I believe it was Outliers, where he talks about the value of having a sort of entitled mindset. And yeah, it's been the world to me and it's helped my family immensely, not always in the ways that I would hope it to have helped, but I think my family's better off for it and I'm certainly better off for it. And getting to have conversations with you to such a large audience, John, I think in a small way, it's made the world better off for it as well. I'm just grateful. Well, Max, it's been a pleasure to have you on the show today. Where can our audience go to learn more about your work, whether it's your books, podcast, or Little Empty Boxes?

53:49Well, first and foremost, I would love for people to watch Little Empty Boxes. It's now available on Amazon Prime in the US, on Apple TV. And for anybody who is outside of the US, it's at littleemptyboxes.com. And yeah, it's a real movie, so people can watch it tonight if they so choose. for a real deep dive into any of these topics from a scientific standpoint. And my first book, Genius Foods, is a great starting place. It's a literal owner's manual for the human brain. And then I cover a lot of these topics regularly on my own podcast, which is called The Genius Life. Max, thank you so much for being here.

54:24As a long-term fan of your work, it's truly an honor to have you on the show. Thanks so much, John. It was a real privilege. Wow. What an incredible conversation with Max Luguevere. From uncovering the impact of nutrition and lifestyle on brain health to understanding how we can reset our bodies and minds to their factory settings, today's episode has been packed with actionable insights and profound wisdom. Max's personal journey from adversity to advocacy is not only inspiring, but also a powerful reminder that small intentional changes can lead to monumental shifts in our health and well-being.

54:55As we wrap up, I encourage you to reflect on the key takeaways from today's episode. Whether it's making simple adjustments to your diet, prioritizing better sleep, or reducing the toxins in your environment, Max's message is clear. It's never too late to reclaim your cognitive and physical health. Start where you are and take the first step toward a genius life. If Max's insights resonated with you, please take a moment to leave us a five-star rating and review. Your support helps us reach even more people with these impactful conversations. And if you know someone who could benefit from this episode, share it with them.

55:25A single conversation can truly change a life. You can find links to everything we discussed today, including Max's books, Genius Foods, The Genius Life, and Genius Kitchen, as well as his podcast, The Genius Life, and his documentary in the show notes at passionstruck.com. The video version of this episode is available on our YouTube channels. And don't forget to check out our sponsors and deals at passionstruck.com slash deals. Supporting our sponsors helps keep the show thriving. Before we close, I want to remind you that I'm passionate about sharing these insights with organizations and teams through speaking engagements.

55:56Let's work together to create intentional change and ignite growth. You can find more at johnrmiles.com slash speaking. Now, here's a sneak peek at what's coming up next on PassionStruck. I will be joined by Esther Dyson, entrepreneur, investor, and founder of Wellville. Esther is a visionary thinker who's dedicating her life to solving some of our most pressing health and societal changes. In this episode, we'll explore her groundbreaking work in creating long-term community-based health initiatives, her thoughts on the loneliness epidemic, and how we can foster greater belonging and well-being in our lives and communities.

56:30Esther's insights on aligning purpose with impact are both inspiring and actionable. You won't want to miss this powerful and thought-provoking conversation. When you talk to the people who work at Facebook or at Google or those of these places, they know they're manipulating people. They know that they're selling something addictive and you're destroying the self-love and self-efficacy both of your supposed customers, that your customers are really re-advertisers, and of the people who work for your company and feel they're being corrupted. And then you have the CEOs are surrounded by people who tell them how great they are.

57:05And sometimes they totally believe it, and sometimes they know it's not true, and they end up committing what I call negligent suicide. And as always, the fee for the show is simple. If you found value in today's episode, share it with someone who could benefit from it. And remember, apply what you hear so that you can live what you listen. Until next time, live life passion-struck.