Michelle Chalfant on Are You Living From Your Adult Chair? |EP 638

25:57Thank God, there are more people now out there that are teaching this. But I remember having a client and her son was this huge kid, like in eighth or ninth grade. He was like six foot four, muscles. And her husband was a football player. And her son looked like he would be a football player. If you looked at him, he was giant. And he wanted to be an artist. And the father shunned him. He couldn't handle it. He was like, you're a football player. Everyone plays football in my family, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, I want to be an artist. So the dad literally would not talk to him. Like he really gave this kid a hard time because even as a child, he wanted to do art.

26:43He was more in that world. And the mother came in to see me and she says, I don't know what to do. And I said, you need to call your husband in here. Let's talk about this because this is just not okay. This kid needs to be validated for who he is and what he wants to do in this world. How beautiful. He wants to become an artist and he's not a guy that wants to play football. That's okay. Who cares? But the dad couldn't do it. He had the hardest time accepting the kid. And I said, anyway, got into projecting and all this other stuff that was going on. But that's just a classic example. Like I remember another family, their daughter was this incredible runner.

27:19Like she had these long legs. She could run faster than any boy. She was like 10 years old. And the parents were like, she needs to be in track. She needs to be running cross country. And I said, no, she doesn't. She hates running. And the parents were hazing her to get in there and be a runner. And the daughter was getting depressed. It was this whole thing. I'm like, they've got to be validated for who they are, or they don't feel like they matter for who they are. Yeah. I agree with you. So I want to take this a step further. In the book, you say that there are six key qualities of the childcare.

27:52And these are things that you bring out like emotions, vulnerability, intimacy, needs, et cetera. If you think about that need to matter and if it's missing, how many of these key elements does that impact? I think it's unique for everybody because they may have an older sibling that maybe listens to them when they're emotional. So I think it's really dependent on the household that we're all raised in. So I can't say that this would, feeling like I don't matter would impact, let's say, feeling your emotions. It feels like it's a little different. It really depends on the modeling, what we got when we were growing up.

28:38And again, it might've been from an older sibling that we were modeled in a healthy way or a grandparent or an aunt or an uncle. That's a difficult one to answer. I think it's really unique. I have done a few different episodes on this concept of high-functioning adults. One was with Terry Cole, who I think you've interviewed as well, and we were talking about high-functioning codependency. And then I recently did an episode around high-functioning depression. But regardless, why do so many high-functioning adults get stuck in the adolescent chair, even when outwardly it seems like they're extremely successful?

29:17Oh, gosh, they're wearing a really great mask. I was. I had a great mask on. Nobody knew what was going on behind because it wasn't safe to do that. Because again, remember, the ego is here to keep us included, part of our tribe. Now, that tribe could be our family. It could be our friend group. It could be our work group. It could be our sorority, our fraternity, whatever the heck we're in. And that ego is pushing us to stay in that group. So it's not going to allow us to be vulnerable. It doesn't know how to be vulnerable. Its job is to slap a mask on your face and show up and look like you're happy, look like you dress well, look like you're this or this in order to stay included.

29:59So it doesn't mean to do that. But to me, functional depression, I lived with that, has a ton to do with, again, and I've worked with people with depression and anxiety for years. This is a lot of the work I did. It was so much around feeling your emotions and allowing them through without story and without giving them meaning. We're not great at doing that. So most humans have an emotion, call it sadness, overwhelm, comparison, whatever it is. And then we build a story around why we're having that emotion or we want to give it meaning. And to truly feel an emotion is just to let it flow through you.

30:40When I have worked with people over 20 some years of doing this work and I teach people how to feel their emotions, that's when anxiety starts to shift. Depression starts to shift. We need to learn how to get comfortable in the uncomfortableness of some of these emotions that we're actually feeling. We're not great at that. We are great at numbing out, but we're not great at feeling our emotions and we need to get better at it because that's actually our superpower. or it's very healing to feel our emotions. That is why I'm so glad that over the past couple of years, there's been a ton of books on this from Bittersweet, from Susan Cain to Big Emotions, from Liz Fossilian to trying to think, I think even No Regrets from Dan Pink and Ethan Cross had a great book about emotions earlier this year that people can all go to.

31:30So when you talk about that mask, I often talk about it as the mask of pretense. And I wore it myself. And in the book, you write, as an adult and parent, I saw this development of the mask in my son, Graham, when he moved to a new school in eighth grade. He loved the school, was thrilled to be making friends. And then one day he invited James over and asked him if he'd like to play Legos. That was Graham's favorite thing to do. And James looked at him and said, Legos, and started laughing. Dude, Legos are for kids. Do you really play with Legos? and I'm just using this as an example because I think we've all been through these situations where we encounter something like this.

32:11I know we had been living in where you live now, Charlotte, North Carolina, and my son was thriving there and we moved him around the same age when he was starting middle school to Austin, Texas. And he had a very difficult time adjusting because the things he liked to do, he was being made fun of and ridiculed by his friends. So I've seen this play out. So maybe you can use this as an example of like, how is this a great example of how this mask shows up? And then what do you do about it? And this is what kids do. Again, this is why I say the adolescent part is not bad. It's how we learn how to survive.

32:53And unless we have a really strong sense of self. My son, Graham, I can still see it. I can tell you where I was standing. I think I was more traumatized than he was. I felt so bad. The thing is that when we have a really strong sense of self, we could sit and say, yeah, I love Legos. Who cares? But here's this kid, new school, not sure, having a great time. He was having so much fun at the school. And immediately it was like, oh yeah, no, those are my brothers or those aren't mine. I didn't say, whatever he said, I was like, oh, this kid loves like OC plays for hours every day. But that's how it happens.

33:28Very quickly, loop, and it's unconscious. The ego comes very quickly and says, drop that mask on. It just continues to build up this false sense of self is what's happening. So it's like false self, false self, another layer, another layer. It's like putting paint on us, right? It's like another layer of paint is going up. So yep, you're going to cover up that vulnerability a little bit more. It's not safe to speak up. He's trying to be cool in this new school that he's in. So yeah, it was not helpful at all. So what I find is over the years, we do that. We build up the sense of false self. And then at some point, and I feel like it's getting earlier, and I'd like your opinion on that as well, but now it seems as though, wait a minute, kids are even in their 20s or 30s that are saying, hold on, there's something off here.

34:17this doesn't feel right to me. I want to be vulnerable or yeah, my relationship. I love any kind of relationship that we're in, whether it's a romantic relationship, a friendship relationship with your parents, siblings, whomever is the greatest lens or mirror for what is going on within us. Everybody mirrors what's going on inside of self. And if we could just pay attention, this is why I said emotions are our superpower. If we could start to pay attention to how everything makes us feel. It doesn't mean I've got to sit around and go, I'm sad, I'm happy. Physically speaking, if we can learn how to stay connected to our bodies and notice, wow, that just gave me a stomachache when I said that is an indicator that I'm out of alignment.

35:03When I just said yes to so and I wanted to say no, that means you're out of alignment because your soul is here and it's guiding you forward, your higher self, whatever you want to call it, Something bigger than you is guiding you forward. But when you're saying yes, when you mean no, or no, when you want to say yes, that's an indicator that you're out of alignment. You're back in the adolescent chair. So that's how we start to update that programming. When we start to notice how we feel, that's one way to do it. When we speak up for ourselves, and that can start the removal of these masks. And then we become brave enough to say, I'm going to say yes when I want to say yes and no when I know.

35:40And let's see what fallout happens afterwards, because you might upset somebody. You might say something that people go, I don't like that you're saying yes. You always say no, whatever it might be. But that is one way that we can start to really start taking these masks off and live in more alignment with who we are. I am now going to take you to the story of Gerard and Marcy and what led to avoidance and self-sabotage. So in the book, you talk about Gerard came in, sits on your couch, puts his head in his hands and said, Michelle, I've totally messed up and I'm in the doghouse. Gerard for the audience is 42 years old.

36:20He's the divorced father of two. And he's been dating this new woman, Marcy, for about four months, really falling for her. But he's a huge sports fan and his buddies have invited him to watch the playoffs. His favorite team is playing, but Marcy invited him to a friend's birthday party. And he said yes, but forgot about the playoff games. So he does what a lot of people do. He doesn't know how to handle the situation. He decides he's going to go hang out with his friends, text her a couple hours before they're supposed to go. And now she is ghosting him. So probably a lot of people might not have been in that exact same situation, but something very similar to it.

37:09How can someone catch themselves in these moments before they spiral and do an act of self-sabotage? Yes. I absolutely remember those two. So he was acting again from his adolescent chair. He's doing his best to not get in trouble, but to also get what he wants and all these things. But his strategies, the sneaking around at all. That was not healthy, right? That was not acting from his adult chair. That was acting from this adolescent. And then Marcy, honestly, for ghosting him, same kind of thing. Adolescent chair, speak up for yourself. So your question was, what was your question? So how could he have done it differently?

37:48What was your question? Well, how do you catch yourself when you're being avoidant or you're ending up self-sabotaging yourself before you get into the moment where you spiral. Yes. I've taught a whole course on this. It's on my website. It's called the Relationship Reset Program, because what I realized is that over the years of working with people, we don't know how to communicate well with others. We don't know how to speak up. We don't know how to set boundaries. We don't know how to just be vulnerable, which is the child, right? Speaking up for what we want, what we need. Oops, I made a mistake.

38:20So what that would look like from his adult chair would have been like, hi, Marcy. Oh my gosh, I can't believe this. I really want to go to the playoff game. This is my favorite team. And I know that I said yes to you. Would you be okay if I went to the playoff game instead? But instead he got very sneaky. He did all these weird things. And I was like, why didn't you just talk to her about it? He said, well, I would have hurt her feelings. I said, well, you hurt her feelings anyway, because of how you did this. So we went through, I said, it's about having direct, open, honest conversations with others.

38:55That's how we could have avoided it. But how do we know is again, I'm tuning into my body and I'm noticing this is giving me a stomachache. This is making my heart tight. This is making my heart race. My throat's getting tight. Something doesn't feel right. Oh, I made a mistake. Oh, now I'm in, I don't know how to get myself out of this. What am I supposed to do now? It's like, you talk about it. We just need to learn how to have a conversation and speak up and say, I really messed up. I'm really sorry. I'd like to honor you and go to your friend's birthday, but this is my favorite team. You know how I love Miami Dolphins.

39:30I really want to go see this playoff. Would you be okay if I did that? And if she's not okay, then you have a conversation about that. You can't, he was trying to take care of everything on his own and he ended up really hurting her feelings and she did stop talking to him and all this. Yeah. So does that answer your question? I think that's good. I'm just trying to give some insights about the book and how readers can use it along with this three chairs concept. This is why in the book, if you notice, I packed this book with not just client examples so people could really relate to and understand what I was talking about because it's a simplified book and that's how I teach everything because I need to break things down for myself.

40:11I'm like, how do I make this really understandable to everybody? But what I've put throughout the entire book are exercises and prompts so that you can then plug in your life, whatever's going on in your life into this model. So the book is actually like a transformational journey that any reader can take by reading the book. Because you read the book also, I'd advise grabbing a journal and a pen and you actually are going to journal and write as you're going through the whole entire book. And it will transform you by the end. Everybody is saying this to me. They're like, I feel like a different person after reading this book.

40:47And I did all these exercises and I feel so different. It raises your awareness to who you are and what your stuff is. What are you dealing with? Like you said, if I'm avoidant, you're going to realize, oh, wait, this is me. This sounds like me, what she's talking about here. And then I talked to you about what do you do if that sounds like you. So I give you the, again, the how to. So this is you, this is what you need to do next. I actually interviewed Kayla Shaheen. I'm not sure if you know who that is, but she wrote the book, The Shadow Work Journal, which has gone bonkers. And I actually thought your book combined with her journal were a nice pair.

41:23Thank you. I love, that's why, that's the whole chapter that I wrote on triggers. I have a lot of experience with shadow work and trigger work. That's something I've done for 20 years. I remember studying with Debbie Ford before she passed 20 years ago. But that's something that has always fascinated me. And triggers are an incredible way, when you work with your triggers, to update that old programming. Because when we're triggered, it's not about the other person. It's about our belief that's rising up within us. That other person did or said something, and then our belief rises up. And it's an opportunity to look at that belief that we have about ourselves and flip that.

42:03That updates our program. I have a whole, I think it's a seven-step process in the trigger chapter on how you work through a trigger to update your programming. Michelle, one of the things you talk about is that the adult chair, and we've been discussing it all along, is the seat of presence, boundaries, and emotional responsibilities. And in the book, when you start going into this next section, you write that to live full time in our adult chair is nearly impossible because of our ego. And so the real goal is to live mostly from our adult chair as much as we can throughout the day. And then you go through that to do this, there are a number of steps.

42:40The first is we have to learn the qualities of each chair. And so when I was starting to go through the qualities of the adult chair, a lot of it starts making sense and it starts going into a lot of the things that we hear from many different sources, but I thought you did a good job of kind of outlining them. So I know one of them is to live in the present moment. Another one is to grow in self-awareness. Another one is, which kind of goes along with live in the present, is to be mindful about our thoughts. And as I went down the list, I saw that one of the most powerful things that you tuned into that I talk about here a lot is that it's our choices that really shape who we become.

43:31And we all have choices that we make every single day. But I think being intentional about what choices we make is what ends up culminating into the results that we achieve. How do you think that choiceology impacts this staying in the adult chair versus reverting back to one of the two earlier ones? Choice is everything. And even in my own life, and this is why I love this, is that I didn't think I had a choice. These thoughts were coming in so fast, tearing me down, beating up on me, all of the things, the negative thinking. And I realized once I was able to start separating myself from those thoughts.

44:13Now hear those words, like I separated Michelle from the thoughts and created that space. I realized, wow, I can choose things to help create more space. And the more I was able to actually separate myself from those thoughts, the depression started going away. The anxiety started decreasing. So now I'm so mindful of choosing. For example, I go into workaholic mode very easily because I absolutely love what I do. Everything that I do in the world, I love. And I can go into workaholic and I have to be careful. I don't want to fry out my nervous system because I've done that too in the past. So I will intentionally choose to take a break.

44:56So when we're done today, I will go stand in the backyard, no shoes on, do some grounding for about 10 minutes. So it's not that I have to do it for an hour, but I choose that. I choose to put my nervous system first more than anything now. I don't want to get adrenal fatigue again and all of these things, but choosing is everything. That's the power. It's very empowering to realize we have a choice to, again, even with setting a boundary, like that example you were using out of the book, Gerard could have said, oh, wait, I'm going to choose to have a conversation and it's going to be uncomfortable, but that's okay.

45:35Because that's just part of being human. That's part of life. We can choose to pause before we're about to binge out on Netflix, food, porn, whatever we're doing and say, wait a minute, I'm going to do that. I'm going to give myself, I'm going to go eat some cookies, whatever. But first I'm going to choose to sit here for five minutes, set the timer on your phone because the ego likes to know there's an end time. And I'm going to choose to sit here and feel my emotions just for five minutes. I don't even know what that means, right? You don't have to label it. Just feel into your body. Wow, I have a stomachache.

46:07Sit with it. Allow it to be there. Don't try to fix it. Don't try to push it away. Be with it. It's an energy and it will move through. It will move through and out if you sit with it. So choice is everything from choosing, like I said, to me, triggers are a gift. They're a way to update your programming in that moment when you're triggered. The choice is, do I want to choose to look at this and inquire, is this mine? And what is this about me? What is this belief? Or do I want to scream at this person standing in front of me or get mad or throw them a cold shoulder or put the wall up? I'm going to instead choose to do this for myself.

46:43So choice is everything. And that is what keeps us in our adult chair more and more. So I was having a really interesting conversation with Angela Duckworth about a year ago. I love her book, Grit, but I came into this interview I did with her in a way to challenge her on something. And I told her, Angela, I think you've gotten two sides of the equation or triangle right. I think passion and perseverance are absolutely critical, but I think you're missing a dimension. And that dimension is intention because if you're not intentional about the choices you're making, then you're going to take that grit and you're going to apply it in the wrong areas of your life.

47:24And she said, I wasn't trying to be exclusive about saying those two things are the only things. And she studied self-control and in her mind, self-control and intention are synonymous with each other, the way she thinks about it. But you write in the book that your life changed when you implemented intention into your life and you use the help of Wayne Dwyer in his book, The Power of Intention. So why is it so important to get so intentional about how you spend your days? Because if not, to me, intention in the morning, intention sets the tone for the day. It's like, what's the roadmap for my day today?

48:08So I'm going to be very intentional about, I'm going to have a peaceful day. I'm going to have excellent podcast interviews. I'm going to be in the flow state. I intend various things. But on top of intention, I've also come to realize you've got to have action, right? So if I'm off course, you've got to have the action to pull you back onto that course as well. And the awareness to notice, hold on a second, your heart's racing, Michelle, or you're feeling fried out. Time to go take a break. Like intention is really powerful. I find that if we don't have intention, we live life the same as we did the day before, which is just an instant replay.

48:52Again, we might do different things throughout the day, but if you want to change your life in some way, shape or form or stay on course, intention is very powerful. It's an energy that you're rolling out like the yellow brick road for your day every single day. Well, my last question for you is you've worked with thousands of clients. experience what's the most surprising shift you've witnessed when someone consistently returns to their adult chair it is absolutely shocking to me how simple actually the process is but it has to do with being able to say to yourself hold on what's fact and truth in this very moment that is one of the best ways you can get in your adult that is one of the best ways you can get out of the adolescent, stop time, drop into the present moment.

49:40And what I've heard for years now, because I've been doing this particular work with the adult chair for 10 years, is how simple that is. People go, I can't believe it. I was in the middle of the kitchen and I was cooking and my brain was going crazy. And I just asked myself, hold on a second, what's fact and truth in this very moment? And boom, all of a sudden, everything just stopped. Time stops and they feel this new alignment come in. So there is a simplicity to this work that I don't think people are aware of. And I just want to offer that to your listeners. It's really that simple. And what's fact and truth in the moment might be, I'm cooking dinner, I'm looking down at my skillet, I have onion in the skillet or whatever you're cooking.

50:22Or it could be, I'm looking out the window and there's a blue sky and there's grass and there's trees and I live on a lake and whatever it might be. So it could be whatever's going on in that moment for you, whether you're cooking or looking out the window, but man, is that a powerful thing that absolutely snaps you back into your adult chair. Well, Michelle, it's been such an honor to have you. Where's the best place that people can go to learn more about you and your work? So they can get the book, The Adult Chair on Amazon or anywhere, but just theadultchair.com. You can find me there and I have the coaching program.

50:54I have Michelle's shelf on podcasts, live events, online courses. I've got a whole bunch of stuff going on there. So theadultchair.com is where you can find me. Such an honor to have you, Michelle. Thank you so much for being on PassionStruck. Thank you for having me. And that's a wrap on this transformative conversation with Michelle Chalfant. Michelle's adult chair model offers more than just self awareness. It's a powerful invitation to stop reacting from old patterns and start responding from your truest self. Because when we sit in the adult chair, we take ownership without shame. We set boundaries without guilt, and we lead our lives with clarity, compassion, and confidence.

51:36A few takeaways I hope you'll carry with you. First, you're not broken, you're layered, and healing is the integration of all your parts. Second, emotional regulation doesn't come from suppressing the child or adolescent. It comes from reparenting them. And third, living from the adult chair is the gateway to presence, peace, and purposeful decision-making. If this episode resonated, send it to someone navigating burnout, relationship friction, or emotional overwhelm. These tools can be life-changing, but only if we practice them. And if you want to take the next step, join the Ignition Room, our intentional community for growth-minded changemakers.

52:15Subscribe to the Ignited Life newsletter for tools, reflections, and behind-the-scenes insights. And visit our YouTube channels at John R. Miles and PassionStrop Clips for full episodes and exclusive content. And lastly, check out our curated starter packs at the ignitedlife.net slash playlist. Deep dives into emotional fitness, resilience, and relational healing. Coming up next on Passion Struck, I sit down with Brad Delphin, founder of Total Digital Security, for an urgent conversation about why cybersecurity is no longer just a tech issue, it's a personal one. We explore how to protect yourself, your family, and your digital life and a rapidly evolving threat landscape.

52:56You have to be intentional to protect yourself in this digital age because nobody else is going to do it for you. The ISP, your internet provider, will not do it for you. They're trying to help with certain things, but the fact is your internet provider is sucking up all your personal information with everything you do back and forth. They're part of the game. You've got big tech and big business constantly looking to suck up our personal information, which invariably ends up in the wrong hands and goes sideways eventually. You have the government that really has not been a proponent down to the individual level, certainly on a national level or an enterprise level or a military level, but not on a consumer individual.

53:51You must take the initiative yourself on behalf of yourself as a head of household for your family. until then lead from your truth respond from your wholeness and as always live life passion struck