Ex-Secret Service Agent Warns the Next 9/11 Won’t Be Planes

0:00I had one guy, he used to set animals on fire. Can you share something without giving a name? You don't know people. Everybody thinks they know people. You don't know people. No, though we want to, you don't really know human beings. I started off NYPD, went to the United States Secret Service, and then I protected all the different presidents. This is a person you're going to give a gun to, Are you going to put them in the White House with the most powerful person in the world who's around the other most powerful people in the world? You really, really, really have to be careful who you let in.

0:36And so someone like myself would come in and try to get either more information or a confession. From all the presidents you work with, Bush Sr., GW, Obama, Ford, you know, Clinton, what are the future threats? I will not, I can't answer that. And here's why. It's crazy to me. Is it because of what? is naive, it is foolish we are not living in reality and this is why we are dealing with many of the issues we have now you didn't give me the answer if they did 9-11, what could the threat look like from the enemy? yeah, there's things that you don't see like what? I can't tell you

1:24Chevy, right? not Chevy Evie, Evie Pumputas, right? The way you help me understand how to pronounce it, I love it. Evie like Chevy. But it's not every day you talk to somebody that was Secret Service for 13 years protecting a handful of presidents, right? We have the two Bushes, the father and the son. Clinton, I think, is who you started off with. And then also Obama, in some sense, with Michelle and President Ford as well, which is what a crazy story you got there. But there's a lot of things we're going to be talking about today. Some of this stuff is current events. There was a Secret Service head that spoke to 60 Minutes this weekend, which I'm sure you watched as well.

2:00If you haven't, I got some questions there for you because he said threats are up 40 percent year over year. And he also said something about drones, how with drones, we don't know how to protect ourselves, which I don't know if that's a good idea to say that. But I got five words I want to go through with you in today's podcast. One is justification. The other one is consequences. Three is confirmation bias. The other one is vulnerability and threats. And last but not least is discernment. How do we distinguish between trustworthy people and those who are the dangerous ones? And I got a few cases I'm going to bring up to you and we're going to analyze together.

2:33But if you don't mind for the audience that doesn't know you, maybe share a little bit about your background. Sure. So thank you for having me. I'm really happy to be here with my fellow Armenian. I'm not Armenian, but aunt, that great aunt. What's her name, by the way? Azneev. Azneev. My aunt is Armenian. Much love to you. So much love to the Armenian community. I started off NYPD very short time there went to the United States Secret Service became a special agent and in the US Secret Service I started under the Clinton administration and then I protected all the different presidents the president that I had full time was Barack Obama because the way it works is you'll have somebody full time which means 24-7 but you can't do that though your whole career you burn out you're only allowed to do it for a window of time and then you go out into the field, which means you help protect all the other presidents.

3:22But a lot of folks don't know that U.S. Secret Service works criminal investigations. So they're called a dual mission agency. So protection, and then criminal investigations, financial institution fraud, bank fraud, counterfeit money, credit card fraud, any online to have the first cyber task force was called the Electronic Crimes Task Force. It was theirs. Most people don't know that, by the way. They don't know it. And what's interesting is the United States Secret Service is one of the oldest law enforcement agencies. Marshall's is first because they needed to catch fugitives. Then U.S. Secret Service came.

3:56Abraham Lincoln created U.S. Secret Service April 14th, 1865. The day he was assassinated, he created the U.S. Secret Service to fight counterfeit money. Because a third of the money in the United States of America was counterfeit, funny money. So it was destroying the economy. So he created it. The day he was assassinated? And he signed, created the Secret Service. Crazy fact. It is. It is. Years later, many years later, they picked up protection because then U.S. presidents were either getting, there was attempted assassinations or assassinations, and then they started doing protection. That's how they work.

4:30But going back to that, so I work criminal investigations, protection. I was a polygraph examiner, an interviewer for them. So I did their difficult interviews, interrogations. There was only about 30 of us in that unit. So it's a really specialized training. probably the best in the world. I have to give it to them. Like they did a really good job training us. And so you also do the hiring, the HR, all special agents have to take polis. And then I did terrorism interviews either here or overseas. And then we would also help local police departments in the United States with their most difficult cases.

5:03So sometimes these departments, they didn't have the resources to do certain things where they'd have a case and say, we think he did it. We don't have evidence. Can you talk to him? And so someone like myself would come in and try to get either more information or a confession. So I did that a number of years. And then fast forward today, I work at NBC. I'm their law enforcement analyst. So I cover national security, crime, criminal justice. So basically anytime there's a shooting or an incident or an attack, I go on air and I discuss it. So I cover that at NBC studios at 30 Rock. So when you say they're the best and there was only 30 of them, what did the training look like with the interrogation that makes them the best?

5:45So there's different polygraph schools, but the one that they send us to, it's a Department of Defense, Fort Jackson. So you train with the military. Interesting. So are you there for, we were there for a few months and you are there. It's us, FBI, CIA, and then some other, you know, NSA folks. And we do training. So it's, I'll give you an example. Like you have to study biology. So if you go to college, you'll have a semester of biology there. They give you a week of biology and you have a midterm and final. Like they literally give you the text. And I remember getting it thinking they're joking.

6:20There's no way this is going to be an open book test. Because they're like, you have a final at the end of the week on this entire text. And I was like, they're nuts. And then sure enough, we were all like taking wagers. Like, oh, it's going to be open book. They're just going to be like, hey, surprise, just kidding. Sure enough, you show up with the book. And they're like, no, no, put the book away. you're taking your test. There's no open book. And so you really had to consume content. I mean, they even teach you about pharmacology. So when somebody takes certain substances, what does that do to the body and to the mind?

6:51Because the polygraph looks at the body. So it was really a really intense school. And then you're training. Every day you're interviewing people. You're interviewing people. We would interview the military recruits. It was typically the ones that were going to send home that were unfit for duty. So we would interview them on different things and practice interviews and polygraphs on them. What year were you at Fort Jackson? I think I was 2004, I think. Okay, got it. I was there at 97, Fort Jackson. I was there for about a year at Fort Jackson. When I was the military guys joining the Army and AIT, I was there.

7:27Yeah. Yeah, 97. That's where you go for it. That's where they bring the military guys for training, basic training. Yes, that's where they did. And I was there now, we have to say, 30 years ago, which is crazy, 29 years ago. Well, thank you for your service. Well, thank you as well for yours as well. Yeah. So let's go into that. So discernment. I think one of the skillset that, you know, it's hard to learn and we never get to 100 % because, you know, intuition and reading people discernment. How does one get better at the intuition of reading somebody to see if this is someone I can trust and do business with and this is somebody dangerous that I shouldn't do business with?

8:03or even have as a friend? Slow down. Everything doesn't have to be fast. The thing is people make you feel like you have to respond right away, especially like today with text. Somebody sends you a text and you feel, I have to be fast. I have to respond. And you can be, but discernment to have it, you can't be fast. You have to slow down. So if it's something where I'm like, I'm not sure, or even if I feel like a weird way or if I listen to it, I listen to it. So I will give myself time to think and process and see how I feel. I mean, just think about how many times you go to respond to someone or you respond and then afterward you think back like, oh, I should have done it this way.

8:43When time passes, you think more rationally. Number one, you've had more time to process. And then a lot of times you even decide whether you want to respond or not. Most of the time, most things don't need a response. Not everybody needs a response from us, but we're made to feel like I have to respond to everybody. you're very busy, Patrick. I'm busy. So if I respond to everybody, I'm just how much time am I going to waste responding to you, to you, to you, to you? It's always like who needs my attention and when do they need it? So I guess don't be so reactive. Discernment to me is not being reactive.

9:17It's like I slow down and I decide when to respond, how I want to respond, and whether I want to do it or not. And sometimes I may not have all the information. Sometimes, you know what? I just don't want to be rushed. I want to have a bit more composure over myself and my mind before I make a decision. That's me, discernment. And discernment is not saying yes to everything. It depends, though, where you are in life sometimes. Sometimes with opportunities, if we're talking opportunities, you say yes to everything when you're starting off. But I mean, in general, you don't have to say yes to everything.

9:47Interesting. So it depends on the stage of your life. Early on, say yes to everything because you don't know what it's going to turn into. And then eventually, you become more selective. But what are some three signs I can get when I'm looking at somebody, doing business with somebody, after three months, six months, that I can tell this person is somebody I should invest in and go a little bit deeper with the relationship or I should cut them? One, do they show up on time for your meetings? I don't care if it's a Zoom. I don't care if it's in person. If they're not on time, that tells you.

10:18It's interesting. Everyone's like big on, I want respect. I want respect. The way you show somebody respect is I respect your time. I respect you and your time. You shouldn't be waiting for me. So if somebody has me waiting for them, I just, I just mark it in my brain. I just remember it. It depends who it is. I just remember it. So it tells me like, I'm not as important to them. Do they take feedback? Well, so if I'm going back and forth, do they take feedback? Well, and then the other thing is, this is a big indicator. And I was actually talking with Anthony about it before. Or does do what people say match up with what they do?

10:56People talk a lot. Everyone's a talker. I look at what they do. If you said you're going to do this for me, did you do it? Or did you give me lip service? Or did you forget? So I match what you say with what you deliver. Those two things are in harmony. If I get talkers, I don't respond. If you say, hey, I'm going to do this for you and I give you access to something and it's you're supposed to review it and get back to me. And I don't hear from you. And I hear from you two months later. And that wasn't the understanding or three months later. I'm I'm checked out. So in the recruiting process that you're going through last week, I had a fellow here, John McPhee, who was a former sergeant major in the army.

11:42He was a Delta Force for many years. They call him Shrek. The guy's a very well-known guy in the military. And one of the things we talked about is the recruitment process of getting into Delta Force and how you get recruited into it. When you're going into the recruiting of doing what you do with Secret Service, what are the red flags? What do they look for? What do they say? Is there a pattern of the types of personalities they recruit? So I did, I actually was part of HR. So when we did polygraphs, you had to take a polygraph and pass it to be in the U.S. Secret Service. And it was typically the last phase or towards the last phase of the process.

12:17So they had to eventually get to me. And then sometimes it would be like, look, this person's cleared everything. Something's off. But we can't figure it out. So they come to me and say, just let us know. So here are a couple of things I would see in hiring. One bigger flag is just most people either lie or exaggerate on resumes. Just know that. if time is missing on a resume, if you see gaps, sometimes people can leave that off because they were fired or let go. So gaps of time. They would also look at, and I don't know how deep you can go in the private sector, depending on who you are. Obviously, credit checks, your net worth, they would look at that.

12:59So if somebody's got massive amounts of debt, that's a red flag, right? You're looking at someone who's not responsible, can't pay off their debt. maybe, I'm not saying that they would, but taking money, you know, that's a person might be more susceptible of role in the world to taking money. So they would look at our net worth, how much we owed versus how much we were worth our credit history as well. Even if they would even look at if you were kicked out of somewhere like evicted from a residence, civil lawsuits, if you were part of any civil lawsuits in any which way. The big mistake people who hire that they make is they don't ask questions they're not nosy and they feel bad asking questions like you you're nosy you should be nosy you're bringing this person into your company and a big issue that companies are having today is they they hire virtually so you have deep fakes and people don't even think about the outside threat coming in not just like hiring a good person if you're looking to meet the person one-on-one that's one thing but deep fakes or even hiring people that will infiltrate your company.

14:01There's companies now, big tech companies, they have big issues with having people in the company because they're asking very like job skill questions. Can you do this? Can you do that? Like skills, but they're not looking at the overall human being. So the one wonderful thing that the United States Secret Service did is they looked at the totality of you. It was not whether you had the skill set or not. In fact, most of us didn't even have a criminal justice degree, but we brought something special i spoke languages so i had that um that helped me get in my foot in the door criminal justice like they teach you everything in training but they would look at your background i owed a i had paid off a collection bill when i was super young i might have been 17 18 it was 125 i paid it off but it still rang in my credit report they sat me down they're like hey what's this 125 dollars you owe and they went to my schools and references people don't check references ask questions be nosy make people answer you but when i went to apply for the job i studied overseas a lot and at one point i studied in rome i did i was at the american university of rome they sent a special agent to the american university of rome rome to speak to my professors what kind of student was she was she on time do you have problems with her in the classroom.

15:19So I'm not telling you that you, most people can't do that deep of a dive, but you should look at the whole human and any inconsistencies. I'll give you an example. Once I was going to have somebody work for me and they gave me a legal agreement. Hey, if I want to work for you, it was for a certain position, but this is outside. This is post-U.S. Secret Service. They gave me an agreement. I read the agreement and in my head, I'm like, first of all, a lawyer didn't write it. You did. This is Chachi BTAI. You could tell. So I didn't like that because it's like, oh, it's for my lawyer. And I knew, I'm like, I may not be a lawyer, but I know that a lawyer didn't write it.

15:49Red flag. I don't like being misled. That's one. Two, in the agreement, it said we had agreed on a price. It's like, hey, this is what I would like. I said, I'll give it to you, face value. I didn't even negotiate. I'll give it to you. I want to earn that amount. But in the legal contract, it's like, oh, I'm waiving my other fees. I read it. So it's like, you're going to pay me this, but I will waive my other fees that I normally charge, blah, blah, blah. So in my head, I'm like, why would you put that in there? And when I asked the person, why did you put that in there? Oh, my lawyer put in there, but why would you put it in there?

16:20What fees are you waiving? Oh, that's for later. So the moment I heard that, I'm like, I'm going to have a problem. This person's coming in and they're already telling me I'm under compensated. And I gave you the amount you initially asked for, which was like, let's say 10, 10 K. I gave you 10 K, but now you're telling me in your contract, well, I'm waiving it. Is it gamification that bothers you? Is it the manipulation? Is it like, I'm trying to do leverage, like I'm doing you a favor. Is that the part that bothered you? No, it's not being, it's hiding it in there. It's like, if I tell you this, you have to trust people on their word.

16:56Doesn't she know who you are? Like, why would she do that? Is that just a lack of competency on her end? I think people don't think, I think people think when they do agreements, like this is how they are. And I look at very, like the honor of working with someone like, I have to be able to trust you. And so if you feel like you can't trust someone, then just don't bring them on. Companies, and I do a lot of keynotes and training for companies ask me to come on. The biggest problem they have is once they get a problem, forget it. A problem person just corrupts everything, hurts the company. And not only that, you end up giving all your time and energy as a boss or supervisor to what?

17:30The problem person. And you're neglecting everybody else because you're dealing with this issue. And so you really want to minimize bringing in problem people or maybe bringing them on a temporary basis, almost like test driving employees before you're like, I'm hiring you. Just be like, hey, we're going to bring you in a three month probation. U.S. Secret Service NYPD does the same thing. It's a probation period so that they can get rid of you anytime they want. What percentage of guys do they get rid of on the probation side? NYPD probably more so than U.S. Secret Service. U.S. Secret Service.

18:01Think of it this way. NYPD, my class of training is 1500. hundred. U.S. Secret Service 54. So U.S. Secret Service like literally hand plucks you. They're picking you. They're really because they're investing a lot more money in you to send you to training and they don't want to lose you. So they want to make sure you can also pass training. They don't want people to just kick out. NYPD is a bit more. I don't want to say an assembly line, but they'll do a map bigger net. And then in training, they're just weeding people out. They're just like, goodbye, gone. So one is quantity. The other one is quality.

18:33And for Secret Service, are they recruiting you or you're approaching them? You approach them. They'll go to like job fairs or they'll go to universities to get the word out because there's agent and there's uniform division. So they're two different things, but they're all U.S. Secret Service. They work together. So they'll hold job fairs or they'll go to universities to speak. But for the most part, you go to them. You have to think of it like this, Patrick. That's not a job that's going to be like, oh, my God, you look amazing. I think I'm going to, it's not like the movies where you think like they're going to recruit you because they think you're special.

19:02Nobody's special in those jobs. Nobody. It's, it's everybody. What do you bring? What value do you bring? And you work as a team because that whole concept sometimes, and I get he for it, but authenticity, you're so special. I have to cater to you. If you're in a mission focused entity that brings the whole system down because it's Now the focus is on me, the individual, and you're reinforcing that. You matter more than the team matters. And you create an imbalance. And now good luck trying to fix that. Are there automatic elimination in the process for candidates and secret service? Like if this person has these five things, you're out.

19:41Like a non-negotiable. Drugs. Drugs was a big thing that I'd see people get. We would call it BQA'd. a lot of, if you have drugs in your background, I'm not saying no drugs, and I want to be careful because there's a hiring process here, but drugs was the biggest disqualifier. And a lot of times people, when they were young, did a lot of things. And sometimes it can carry into the future. So if you had excessive drugs, you had certain things with certain drugs, that would be the number one thing. Any drug, was it like not, was it weed, cocaine? The problem now weed's legal in some places. Like you go to New York, you smell it everywhere you go.

20:16I think it's they give you some time like let's say you did it now when you were 17 but you're 25 now and you're applying there might be a bit of space but they you have to be honest if you lie you're done even NYPD I remember when I went through the crewman process I remember the one of the recruiters taking my hair like I remember I was like cut from the bottom and they cut like a big swath of hair all the way up to my root to test my hair it cut your hair Yes, because the hair holds drug use longer than any other part of the body. Yeah. And they do that with everybody? I don't know if they do it now.

20:52When I went in, I remember I was like, cut at the bottom. And so what was the process like? They said, we're going to cut your hair? Yes, for drugs. It's your drug test. It's your drug test. Because if you just do urinating in a cup or whatever, that only holds a window of time. The hair has more time. So I can look a little bit further back. Do they still do it today? the NYPD I do not know I do not know secret service secret service the polygraph was the weapon there most police NYPD does not polygraph not all police departments polygraph here's the way the polygraph works you tell me let's say no I've never done any drugs are you sure you've never done any drugs well you know maybe one time so we'll have a conversation you'll tell me about it or whatever it is that you're worried about then after we're done okay other than what you've told me, Patrick, have you done this?

21:42No. And that's when I sit you in the polygraph chair. I ask you these questions. And then we see if you pass the polygraph, if you pass it, it means you've been truthful up until this point. But drugs is probably the biggest thing. I would see people get kicked out. And then sometimes like deviant behavior when people are young. I had one guy, he used to set animals on fire. Cats. Who would hire that person, period? But I have to ask questions to find out. He didn't come out and say it. I go through his paperwork. I look at stuff. I start asking questions. He said cats on fire? Yes. I got him to specifically tell me what animal.

22:21For some people, that's a hiring. That's like a good sign because dogs is a red line, but cats. I don't want any animals because to me, if you're, and don't think it doesn't, deviant behavior, like even when you look at crime, because I know you guys analyze current events and different things. Deviant behavior begins at a younger age, but it starts in small moments. right small behavior and it's usually the violation of somebody's personal boundaries i do something to violate your safe space and i use that term like my behavior violates you in some way causes you harm and if you see it in children and if you don't correct it it escalates so my cat guy i don't think he started one day just setting a cat on fire the whole thing it just came up poking it hurting it maybe cutting a nail off doing something and then that behavior escalates and escalates and escalates.

23:10Did you confront him because you knew or he told you? I didn't know. He was looking for a job. He was one of our applicants. But how did that come up, the cat situation? I ask, one of the questions you ask, and this actually came up with FBI, I think, recently in the news. We ask about relationships to animals. So if you have relationships with animals, some people have inappropriate personal relationships with animals. Inappropriate? Yeah, like sexual relationship with animals. It's called bestiality. I ask that. You have to ask that question? Yes. What percentage of people have inappropriate relationship with animals?

23:48It depends what part of the country you're in. Usually East Coast or West Coast, very low. Middle America tended to be higher. That's crazy to me. Is it because of what? I think, I'm going to tell you this. like you don't know people. Everybody thinks they know people. You don't know people. And the one thing I learned is you don't, you can't vouch for anyone, although we want to, you don't really know human beings. And so my job was to make sure that this was a healthy human being, a safe human being. This is a person you're going to give a gun to multiple guns, right? Automatic weapon, because we had weapons that could fire automatically shotgun.

24:28They're going to have acts to that. Then you're going to put them in the white house with the most powerful person in the world who's around the other most powerful people in the world so you really really really have to be careful who you let in so behavior towards animals whether it's sexual contact or relations with animals or abuse towards animals okay so this guy am i like completely no no i actually love this but is this guy that did he eventually say yes i did kill cats when i was younger so i asked him about his behavior and we had a list of did you engage in this and so sometimes sometimes people might tell you, sometimes people might give you an indication.

25:06So if I'm talking to you, let's say, Patrick, and the whole time you're looking down while I'm talking to you, I'll leave you alone. I'll let you look down. But if I go to a topic and then all of a sudden you look up and make eye contact with me, I'm going to say, why'd he just do that? Or if you're sitting like this the whole time and then ask you the question about the animal and then you start doing this with your hand, I might notice those small things. They're small. It doesn't mean you're lying, but it does tell me you don't like this question and I need to figure out why. What most recruiters do is they get their list.

25:39This is for my HR folks. Listen up. You get your list. You go through your questions. You're not even looking at the person. Look at the person. If you don't like the way they answer or it just seems off, just ask follow-up questions. Tell me a little bit more about that. Don't call out what you see. Hey, when I asked you that question, you said don't do that. because that's their tell and you want to have their tell. Do not correct behavior, but it is your job to ask more questions and more questions. And so you get people to tell you a story. The other thing you can do in the beginning of interviews is just, can I offer you something?

26:12Can I get you a drink? Can I get you a snack? Would you like anything? Make small talk. And one thing that also helped out when I did interviews is I had the person's info. Even when we did arrest, I knew all the other person's info. I had their name, their date of birth, their address, but you know what I did? I went with a blank sheet of paper. Hi, nice to meet you. What's your name? Spell that for me. What's your date of birth? I would ask them questions I knew the answers already to because I'm trying to understand who they are when they are in a relaxed, non-threatening environment. Unless, of course, they're lying to me about who they are.

26:42But usually your name, your date of birth, your social, I'm not threatened by those questions. So I get to see you as you. Then I shift to the job-related questions. And then I will see a shift happen. And then when those shift happens, I'm like, at what point did your behavior change when I asked you about drugs? When I asked you about animals, when I asked you if you've ever been fired from a job, ask people, have you ever been fired? Have you ever been let go? And you know this already when you're asking the fired part. No, a lot of times I don't know anything because people lie. You know, look, if you really want that job, you can be a good human being.

27:17Like, look, I really want this job. But if I tell them I did this much drugs. I'm afraid I won't get hired. They would look at it as an integrity thing. A lot of times I would see people lie. And had they told the truth, they would have gotten the job. But some people lie. And then it comes out. And then at that point, it's like, look, you already took your poly. You lied. It's an integrity thing. So at what point did you find out with this guy that he was killing cats? Polygraph. That was polygraph. In the polygraph. Yes. And it's just a question. I'm like, hey, tell me about your relationship with animals.

27:46And he said, I've killed cats before. Yes. Not exactly. we had to get to that point. My dad would never be able to be a Secret Service agent because he can't stand animals. His mother had 12 cats, two dogs, two pears, two snakes, and all these pigeons. All his siblings love animals. His kids love animals. My dad cannot stand animals. If they touch him, it drives him insane. And we love cats and dogs. So if dad's watching this right now, you would never be able to be a Secret Service agent. As long as he doesn't harm them. We're looking at. He harmed one of them. We were Iran. We were in fourth floor and we had secretly been hiding a cat in our apartment.

28:21My mom, my sister knew about this. He comes in. He smells it. He smells it. He's getting allergic. So he finds out there's been a cat living in this place for like a week. He went outside, put some martadella with hot sauce. Cat ate the martadella hot sauce, never came back ever again. So you can't hire my dad. He's 84 years old, but it'd be a difficult hiring process. So today in the corporate side, when you're hiring, like that one lady, you were talking about the contracts, like$10 ,000, all this stuff. And she put those things in the contract. What interview questions do you ask with somebody that's going to be a high level of hire?

28:55Are there two or three questions you ask in every one of your interviews? I think you can ask. One thing you can ask is why do you want to work for me? I think that's an important question. And so I actually used to ask that in the polygraph. And why do you want to become a U.S. Secret Service agent? And I'll give you an example. And you usually get two types of answers. I want to be an agent because I want to challenge myself. I want to see what I can do or if I can make it. And another type of answer would be, I want to serve. I want to do something greater than myself. I want to serve my country or be of, I believe in the cause.

29:27What's the difference here? Do you think between these two folks, what's the difference? Between the cause? This guy who wants to do it for whom? Him, himself. And this person who wants to do it for what? Mission over, you know, that's a we, that's a me. Thank you. So that's just something to pay note, to pay attention to. So if you ask the question, why do you want to work for me? What answers are red flags? If the person's very focused on themselves, I just would just pay attention to that. Because that's a person who's like, I'm a me person, not a team person. And that is going to be difficult.

30:04If I come in really with this microcosm of like me, me, me, me, me. and I don't understand or I'm not about the collective group, then that lets you know that this person could be an issue later on, that they're really focused on themselves. I mean, look at, I don't have to tell you, how long do people stay on jobs now? Not a long time. Exactly. Why are they coming in? How much money am I going to make? My students, I was an adjunct professor about a decade, City University of New York, and I taught criminal justice, criminology, psychology, and I would have students come up to me, sometimes ask me about the Secret Service.

30:36Anytime I had a student ask me, hey, how much does a Secret Service agent make? I'm interested. You know what I would tell them? Not for you. Not for you. That job is not for you. If you're looking to make money, go do something else. That job's not for you. So these are indicators that can show you the type of person you're bringing. That's one thing to look at. I would really look at gaps or spaces in the resumes and I would ask them, tell me about this job. Why did you leave this job? Always ask why they left. Why did you leave? Why did you know what happened? And that's when you can find out where they fired and they're not telling you.

31:12Yeah. Those are things. It doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't hire a person. I really look at the integrity of a person. If somebody's going to tell you the truth, to me, that speaks volume. If they're being evasive, then I would be careful because I also look at it this way. If you're going to lie to me about the small things and that's to get the job, what are you going to do when you get the job and you mess up? Because you will mess up. Yep. You're going to lie about other things. It's going to happen. And we just went through this a few months ago. We were hiring a guy, very excited about him.

31:41We've done a handful of interviews with him. And he says he graduated from a very big school in America, very, very big school, school you and I would know about. And then we went through the background check process and we contacted the school. Never went to the school. He says, well, I'm going to get the degree for you. I have it. I'm moving. No problem. Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Monday. Never heard back. But with AI, this is a part of it why I think nowadays an interview AI being a good filter because there's no bias. We notice in our company where our HR, a lot of them were from Jersey.

32:15So next thing you know, we're hiring all these people from Jersey. I'm like, why do we have so many people from Jersey? I went and found that three other people that worked in HR that are hiring people are all from Jersey. So the moment you would say, I'm from Jersey. No way, me too. What part? Get out of here. So there was an emotional connection, not necessarily if they would do the job better than a guy that's from Kentucky or Tennessee, right? So we added the interview AI component to the hiring, and it spits out a score. There is no emotional connection. Is it a fit with culture? Is it a fit with skill set?

32:46Is it a fit with experience? And then that would be one of the indicators outside of the other interviews that we do individually. So question, you've got five different types of personalities. Which of these types of personalities tend to be the ones that you trust the least? Okay? And your answer may be a different answer than I'm expecting. One is the charmer, super charismatic, super charming. The other one is the victim. There's always somebody that's something bad to them. It's my mom. It's my dad. It's my boss. It's my ex. It's my this. Three is the intimidator. They want to intimidate you, like gain power over you in the meetings.

33:19Four is the narcissist. And five is the people pleaser. They're always trying to please everybody and conform. From your experience, which of these five are the most dangerous ones? Okay. Charmer is definitely dangerous. And here's the thing. I'm going to, and I always hear people say, oh, learn how to charm people. Can I ask you a question? Why? Why do you want to charm people? Is that not a manipulation tactic? Why do I have to charm you? Why can't I be a genuine human being? Charmers, you see this in antisocial personality disorder. Antisocial personality disorder is the disorder. where we see a psychopathic or sociopathic behavior, which is the term most people understand.

33:57They're charmers. Why do I have to charm you? When it's like, what if you naturally are a charming human being, that is part of who you are, your DNA. Wonderful. But when people like, I want to charm others. I want to be the most charismatic person in the room. I don't want you. First of all, me, me, me, me, me, me. You're, you're, you're, and that's, um, that's a manipulation thing. I'm going to manipulate you to think I'm charming when I just be genuine. That's one. So I don't like the charmer. The victim's a problem because it's everybody else's fault. Never your fault. And you can't work with that.

34:35I want accountability. The one thing I learned, the U.S. Secret Service accountability, nobody cared. Like, especially if you were in charge and there were times where I might give instruction to my team, my team would not follow it. You have that person. everybody has that person that didn't follow or listen. And then there's a problem now with the mission or the assignment who's in charge. I am. And when I go to my higher up, he doesn't want to hear like, well, it's his fault. Well, it's her fault. It's like, it's your fault. Fix it. So I don't want to work with the victim because nothing's their fault.

35:10I want someone who takes accountability. The intimidator, that person's probably somebody who had their lunch money stole one too many times when they were a kid. Why do I have to intimidate people? I'm hungry. It was my stomach growling. You want me to get you something? I'm all right. Protein bar? I do it after. I eat after interviews. Okay, all right. We did it with search warrants too. We always ate after. We did search warrants or arrest warrants. The intimidator tends to be a person who's insecure, and they don't have very good emotional regulation. So if I have to intimidate you because I'm insecure, so I need to make sure I'm extra, because I'm worried that you're not going to listen to me.

35:49I don't want that guy either or girl. The narcissist, I'm just going to say this with this term. Everybody's a narcissist today. I hear everybody like, first of all, it's a disorder. Narcissistic personality disorder. You must be diagnosed to be narcissistic personality disorder. I can have narcissistic traits because there's certain criteria you have to hit to be true narcissistic personality disorder. Most people are not. However, we do see a rise in narcissistic behavior because of the way people are. I think today, you know, you're special. You're this. You're that. Be authentic. Be you. And it's very focused on the self and less on, you know, how does your behavior impact community?

36:36How does your behavior impact teams? We're not teaching that today. Today is like you. You're super special. You can do it all. and what that's doing is creating a more narcissistic type of population. I deserve this. I'm entitled to this. I should get this. And less of what can I do to be of value to my community, to my society, to my team, to my home, to my family. So narcissistic, I would just be careful with that one. But you're not as worried about the narcissist as the charmer, the victim, or the intimidator. Because the charmer is a very specific thing. And the narcissist, here's why I'm not worried about it, because if a person's diagnosed as narcissistic personality disorder, yes, it's a problem.

37:21But if you're just saying that's a narcissist, that means nothing to me. How about if this is a person that's diagnosed? Then you have a red flag. In fact, in the NYPD at the time when I went in, they made you take a test that was similar to the MMPI-2. That's a test that checks for personality disorders. and they would also look at if to see if you had narcissistic personality disorder any type of disorder that would be of danger for you to carry a gun look this narcissist is a very self-focused person it's going to be a problem i don't i don't want the narcissist either don't get me wrong i don't want to sit and compete with you i want to work with people i also a narcissist is going to have a hard time hearing critique or criticism that that's the issue with that you want someone who can hear like, hey, this report you did, it's not accurate.

38:10I need you to fix it. Not, hey, you suck. Or it's like, or they're going to come back. It's like, I don't want to hear. I want you to fix what's incorrect. In fact, when I do the news at NBC, almost every producer I work with, I tell them, I'm like, when I am done, I always want you to tell me what I can do better. Because I want to get better. Is there something I can do better? A narcissist is typically not going to ask you something like that. And then the last one. People pleaser. Yeah, the people pleaser. That's my least worry because I feel like that person, you can give them a little bit more confidence.

38:46You can guide them. They're really going to work hard for you. So as long as you don't take advantage of this person and you don't let others in your organization take advantage of them and you give them confidence, this person you can somewhat work with because they really want to help and give. So I value that so long as it's not detrimental to the company. Okay. So which one would you put as the worst? The one that concerns you the most out of all of them? I can't pick one. They're all charmer, victim, and intimidator. I don't like any of those guys. Those three specifically. And I don't like narcissists either.

39:19If I have a true narcissist, I just, you know what it is? I don't, you don't, you don't have time to deal with that. These people are going to take a lot of time, energy, and effort. The thing with the charmer, there's a deviant aspect to the charmer. That's why, to me, it's the most dangerous one. They're trying to charm you. Why do you need to charm me? What are you trying to get from me? It's a manipulation thing. Okay, so now you were secret service, and you spent a lot of time with presidents. And to win elections, it's a very different election today than pre-Nixon Kennedy. Pre-Nixon Kennedy, you just had to add a good voice, and you could speak monotone.

39:52Nobody cared. Today, you have to charm the audience to win, right? So from all the presidents you worked with that you spent a lot of time with in rooms, the Bush senior, GW, Obama, Ford, you know, Clinton, who was the most charming out of all of them? They were all different. I think President Clinton was very good at engaging the audience. I don't want to say he was a charmer. I just think he but he was natural. It wasn't manufactured. He'd walk into a room. It'd be a thousand people. And if he talked to you, you felt like he was just talking to you. So he's very good at that. He was also very good, I noticed, at repeating people's names when he met them.

40:29So, you know, you'd say, hi, I'm Patrick. And he would say, oh, hi, Patrick. So nice to meet you. Where are you from, Patrick? Oh, I love that area, Patrick. Oh, do you know so-and-so? So for the people that say I'm terrible with names, this is all you have to do. In fact, there's brain scan studies done that when people hear their name, their brain lights up. It gives them an oxytocin hit. makes them feel good. So it's a really great way to build a genuine, authentic connection by just showing someone, I heard you told me your name and I'm making an effort to remember it. So I think president Bill Clinton was the best at really connecting and engaging people.

41:10And he liked it. It was not fake. It was not fake. Organic. Oh, every time we had him, we were always very, and I think I can share this. We were always like, please don't stop to talk to people. Cause he would always love to stop to talk to people and shake people's hands. And for us, that was a nightmare. I want to get you from the car to this door and to the stage and then done. But along the way, he'd be like, oh, hey, oh, who's behind this door? Oh, hey, let's go say hi to these people. And he was, and so it would make him late because he wanted to engage people. We always try to keep crowds of people as far away from him as possible because he would always want to go shake their hand.

41:45But it was who he was. How different were the others? everybody has their own special thing i remember george bush senior he was notorious for writing people handwritten notes old school yes if you met with him and this is the president of the united states if you met with him and came to his office he would send you a note card thank you for taking the time to meet with me it was such a pleasure and you know i had a boss of a big high up supervisor in the united states secret service who did that he would write us all notes and say hey bravo I'm so happy you did a great job on this assignment.

42:22We had President Bush at one of our events in 2019. Senior or junior? Junior and after the event was over with we did the interview great conversation 6 ,000 people in attendance Kobe was there as well Kobe Bryant and a week later I got a card from him and it was hey Patrick thank you so much for having me I really enjoy talking to you and a note is still in my office on my if you go to my office the The pictures are what he and I, and I know what he sent me. And it's small little things like that. I read stories about Clinton that when he ran for office the first time president, he had collected 20 ,000 names and addresses.

42:59And apparently he sent every one of them a letter saying, I'm running. I love your support. What would you say about the Obama or the junior? I don't remember if President Obama did that, but he was very engaging with people, too. Like he would talk to people. He would listen. There was a genuineness to all of them. Like they were just themselves, but they each had something that they would give. Look, President Obama, he would sign up, take people's photos. He would be present. He would be present. He might not get distracted as President Clinton would, but I would see him. He would shake hands.

43:30He would talk to people. They care to make a genuine connection. I don't care what side you're on. Like to become president of the United States, there has to be something unique and special about you. Like you're no dummy. like you're not going to get to that place by mistake were they did you see certain things where they were different in public than they were private like oh my god today was a long day or was it was it a high level of consistency of public and private i mean they're human they're tired there's things that they would deal with or sometimes you would deal you know they would deal with people who would speak very ill of them publicly and then they would see them personally and the person would be very different towards them.

44:14It's like, and it usually was not them. It was the outside world that did it. So you'd see like a member of Congress who would just shred them on national news and then they'd show up for like a picnic at the White House. Actually, this happened to President Barack Obama. I wrote about it, so it's okay to share because it was cleared by the service. But I remember he was working late at the Oval and then he finished. He was going to walk back to the residence because there was a congressional picnic. And as I'm walking down the Oval Colonnade with him, somebody comes and they had IDs on. So I knew that they were there like to get on the White House complex.

44:51You're vetted. But I didn't know who he was. And it was, oh my God, Mr. President, how are you? This is my wife. These are my kids. And the president just showed him the same gesture. Oh, so wonderful to meet you. What school are you going to? So I'm like, oh, they're close. And can we take photos together? And then at some point to the person's behavior, which I didn't know this was a congressperson yet, was very like, I don't want to say groupie-ish, but a little like, oh, Mr. President, Mr. President, my wife, my daughter, my kid. And I'm thinking, guy, he doesn't have time. He's busy. He's being very gracious to you already.

45:24Kind of leave him. Then when we leave and we go in the elevator to go back up to the residence, he's like, you know, that guy said horrible things about me. He's going to national TV and said just terrible things about me. And so I think that would be sometimes very hard for them because it's when you're in public, you should say horrific things about me. And then when we're together, it's like, oh, hey, I'm your best friend. Come take picture with my wife and kids. That's a hard thing. So I will say that they are highly resilient people. They don't have a choice to take that position. You have to be able to handle the level of punishment that comes with it.

45:59You get you get massive punishment. People are cruel. and I'm not saying this like I get it but people are just it I always baffle like why do you think it's okay to just be so cruel I think there's no need and I think the nastiest sport in the world okay well today it's worse because it creates engagement on on online on social I'm gonna get clicks let me see the craziest thing so I can get clicks and people can view it right but you don't realize how infectious that that behavior is and how influences devices and stuff. And it's a whole other conversation, but I have a four-year-old and I have a four-month-old, no devices in my house, no screens in my house, Patrick, my kid watches nothing.

46:44I will play music for her from YouTube. And all she can see is the thumbnail, no video. I'm protecting her mind. I don't want her exposed and even cartoons and all that other stuff. That's a whole other animal, the addictiveness of some of the stuff online, but I'm trying to protect her mind for as long as I can. I don't want her exposed to things she should not be exposed to. There's so many aspects, even just safety predator wise. And while she is young, if you look at psychology of the development of us as a human being, when they are young, it's when we have the most influence. When they hit preteen, teen behavior, our influence drops significantly and they care more about what their friends say.

47:25So while I can now, I will command and own that time to shield her mind and protect her also from zero to six years of age. The brain, the physical development of the brain is that it's doing the most work. So the synapses and receptors that we have in the brain, they're being mapped out. They're being created. And we're finding that the brain physically now looks very different in children who use devices who are on screens versus kids that do not. So these are all these things that are coming up. So I don't want my kids exposed to the cruelty, the meanness, none of that stuff. Were there things you saw behind closed doors that was their way of calming their nerves, of relaxing them?

48:11And I'm sure every one of them had a different way of doing it. I will not. I can't answer that. And here's why. You have a security guy outside, right? Yes. He follows you everywhere you go. Yes. So when you have a security person, they're in your personal space. There's a level of respect, you know, and professionalism to not talk about people, at least from the U.S. Secret Service. And it's really been drilled in me. I want to value and honor that it was a privilege. Like they let me into their circle because they trusted me. And so there's some things that I will share that are typically public.

48:44And there's some things like when it comes to them personally, I want to value and honor. Even if it's nothing bad, I just don't want to do that. Can you share something without giving a name?

48:57Don't give a name. You know what? The one thing that they all did, I'll tell you this. They all did physical activity. All of them. George Bush Jr. mountain biking. He used to run and then it hurt his knees. And then he started mountain biking. He was a beast. Try keeping up with him. Guys that like, they're always looking for volunteers because you have to carry all your gear, bike, and keep up with them. um so they all president barack obama every morning he would go work out every morning like clockwork president clinton also worked out so the one thing i will tell you that they did to keep themselves centers all of them physical um workouts and i i follow that to this day i even learned it in training like the the body and the mind like this that i will tell you that's something that they actually did and it definitely helped the other thing they all did they were very good at delicating things to other people.

49:49So they did not try to do everything. This person's going to do this. This person's going to do this. This person's going to do this. So they kept their load light. When your load is light, you're able to make better decisions. And then you're not making a lot of decisions, which creates decision fatigue. When you make too many decisions in the day, the quality of you making those decisions, the quality of those decisions goes down. And one more. You asked, because I think it can relate to the business aspect. There's a circle of people around them. So when things are falling apart out in the world, like there's all this volatility, the circle inside, always steady.

50:25Nobody's losing their mind. I've never seen anybody run through the hallways of the White House screaming. I've never seen it. Everybody's cool, composed, professional, and in their demeanor. So if the circle around you is like that, guess what you're going to be? You're going to be like that. Right. Did you ever work with Trump or you never worked with Trump? No. Everything would be different with him. Because when you said that congressman that came to Obama, President Obama, he's like, you know, that guy said a lot of bad things about me. Trump would probably say, hey, you little a-hole. You know, what was that all about what you said yesterday to me?

50:57So he would have a different approach. I think he's a bit more direct. Like he might say, I heard you said this and this. But I will say, from what I know, like he would sit and have a conversation with him. He would, yeah. And he'd be able to put that personal aspect to the side to talk business. Not a lot of people can do that. So he would call them out and say, hey, I heard you said this about me, but sit down. What do you need? Not everybody can do that. Our egos are too fragile. Well, you won't make it in business if you're not like that. And he came up in New York. You have to make those phone calls because you need everybody's help.

51:29You don't have a choice with that. Who was, so you said Bill Clinton was a jogger in the morning. The President Bush, he had a meniscus, I think, injury, so he couldn't run anymore. He biked and it became a pretty. He was very good. I never volunteered for that. I feel like you want to volunteer. I was like, no, no, because I go to the ranch. I'm like, I'll just stay here and watch this. I'll stay here with this tree and watch. Sometimes I go on hikes with him because I had his daughter, Barbara Bush. I had one of the twins. And so she'd go on hikes with her dad. So we'd go on these hikes. And I'm from New York City.

51:59And they're like, oh, there's wild cats out there. And I remember being like, what's a wild cat? Like a big cat? You know, I don't know wild cats. Can we shoot them? So we would go hiking in Waco and different things. And so you would have to, the job, you had to physically keep up with your protectees and carry gear and carry them. You have to carry them. It was a very physically demanding job. Would they interact with you? Would they talk to you? And would you have to tell the president, Mr. President, you know, I have a job to do. Like, let me do my thing. Was there those types of moments or no?

52:37Yes. if they interact the smaller details, meaning like a former detail, that circle tends to get smaller and becomes more personal. And so they're not being bombarded like they were by White House staff, by delegates, by members of Congress. So those you would have more of interaction and personal relationships there when it's the president as he's sitting in office. He doesn't have time like they will. So you just engage in as much as that they want. You go off of them. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.

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55:12Yeah, because there was a story also with Obama that he would go to this Fireflies place in Alexandria. Is that a true story that he would like to get away and go eat some food? And so I guess the last question on this topic before we move on is who who was the one that had the what what patterns for president to have caused you guys to be over? Like you said earlier, President Clinton wanted to talk to everybody like he wanted to go open a door and say, hey, how you doing? How you doing? Who was the easiest one to protect that major job easier? Who was the toughest one? You know what it is? It's just they're different and you have to adapt to how they are.

55:48So it's not that it's easy or that it's hard. You'll have one president. You get used to protecting that president. And then another one comes in. So like a president with kids, young kids, like President Barack Obama had young kids. Right? So he wants to do things. Like he wanted to, he coached his daughter's basketball team. I would go out with him when he'd coach. That's different. So now he's around other parents. He's around other kids. You're making sure that is it safe. So it just depends what they're doing. Some presidents, their kids are older. They're staying more at the White House.

56:19President Barack Obama, every holiday, I spent all my holidays in Hawaii for Christmas and New Year's, essentially, because that's where he would go. Where other presidents might stay local. Or Bush would go to Waco, typically. Well, actually, Bush, I think he would stay, if I remember, he would stay maybe Christmas or Christmas Eve at the White House so agents could spend it with their family. So we didn't miss. Really? Yeah. Wow. Good for him. He would do, I'm trying to remember exactly what he did, but he would spend part of the holiday there. So the agents physically wouldn't miss spending the holiday with their family because they would go to Kennebunkport or to Waco.

57:00So there were some presidents that were really, I think there was a story of Mrs. Bush, Bush Sr. This didn't happen to me, but she'd go around like giving cookies to the agents or like moving your post because like you'd be standing here. This is like where you're supposed to stand. And there were stories of her like going up to you, like you're getting wet. Stand over here. And you're like, ma 'am, no, I have to stand there. So you would have those types of moments with some of them. So when you when you think about what happened with the president, you have three different things that happened with them.

57:27The ones that we know about the Butler case, you know, Thomas Crooks, the golf course with Ryan Routh and recent one that happened at the correspondence dinner with a level of threats. How much of it is that on the president? Because he's out there publicly. How much of that is on the climate's just changing? So this is a couple of things. I actually touched base with the Secret Service before I came on, because I knew you guys were going to ask me about this interview. Okay, so we're looking at a couple of things. One, you're looking at what's happening outside of the United States. We have the Iran situation.

57:56Things outside the U.S. definitely impact internal temperament. Let's say that. So if we're involved in something outside, it tends to affect people inside their temperament. You do have a lot of folks who have mental health issues. They are actually, they've committed the most people at this point that they ever had. So sometimes if you have somebody with serious mental health issues who wants to harm one of our protectees, you can have them committed. That because either of harm to themselves or of harm to someone we're going to protect. It's not an easy thing to do, but those are happening more and more.

58:33As far as being outside or outdoors, I don't think that that plays a role. I do think the polarization right now is unlike anything I've ever seen before. And when you have leaders, political figures on both sides saying terrible things about each other, and not even just terrible things, but very volatile things, you know, the average person hears it. One, you're setting an example for the average person that this behavior is okay. And if you're telling someone, this person's horrible, they're going to ruin your life. They're going to, the world's going to be over if they get elected. It's Hitler.

59:10It's whatever you want to call somebody. When you do that, then the person who hears it, and sometimes they're not all mentally there, or people sometimes have very weak mindsets. They hear this. And if you're villainizing somebody and they're both doing it to each other to such a degree, if I hear this, I'm thinking I'm doing the right thing by the world, by trying to get rid of this person. You villainize this person. I'm going to be the savior. here, I'm going to help rid this person. The other thing that's super prolific is social media. Before, if you wanted to hurt a president, first of all, it wasn't as out there.

59:42You had to like take a piece of paper, write a letter, fold it up, put the address, put a stamp on it, mail it out. Or even if you wanted to be public and say things publicly, you would have to go to like NBC, like where I work, and have somebody let you go on camera and publicly speak and say what you want to say. There was a filter process. There is no filter process today. I pull up my phone and I just write whatever I want. And I say whatever I want. Patrick, I'm a champion for humanity. We have shown that we are not capable of using these devices with grace, with class, with like any type of filter system.

1:00:21It has become the Wild West. And that is infectious. And that also now makes me, I can be in my bunny slippers at home. I'm going to pull out my phone. I'm going to be Mrs. Tough Guy. When in reality, I would never say that to somebody's face. So the hate and the rage is infectious. All these things combined are causing this. And then I think social media is really the prolific thing. And in talking to some of my folks there, they believe that too. Like they're dealing with the hate and the rage sells. It incites people. It gets clicks. But what we don't realize that we're doing is we're infecting everybody.

1:00:55So what I would tell people is really be careful with what you consume. because a lot of folks are out there and it's for the clicks and it's for the likes and it's hurting us. I'm not trying to be like Miss Philosophical. I'm just telling you, if you want to know why these threats are coming from, if everything I consume is hate and rage and this person's a villain and they're going to take away your rights and they're going to ruin your life and this person's here from this foreign country and they're going to this. From both sides, if you just say whatever, people believe it and it infects more rage and hate And that's why they're there.

1:01:29Do you know what it's like to keep up with these before? When somebody said something hateful, you or if you felt there was a threat made against the president's life, you had to go run out. Do you know how often they're going to run out? I remember Howard Stern. I was an agent at the time when he had his show and it was, you know, I think he still has, but it was really popular. Somebody went on his show and said something about the current president at the time. I don't remember who it was, but something kind of alluding to hurting or killing that president. U.S. Secret Service. And Howard told him, hey, be careful.

1:01:57Secret Service is going to show up. And you know what? We send agents out. They're like, go interview the guests on the show because you can't say that stuff. Yeah, that's interesting. If you can, someone's on the collar. Threaten the vice presidential candidate on the radio. Lawrence Christian Franco, 23, from Long Island. Said things about Joe Lieberman, Al Gore's running mate in 2000. Franco Colstern's shown repeatedly threatened to shoot Lieberman. Is this the one you're talking about? It might be. Yeah.

1:02:28So, you know, threats. When you get one of our guys, Vinny, we're in Tampa this weekend. And he gets a DM from a guy threatening his life. And just kind of going back, I can't believe you set this on. We're going to get you and we're going to find you and we're going to do this to you. And Vinny responds back. Now, typically, it's like, listen, don't even respond back. He reported this to the FBI. And to find out if the guy is real or not, the guy responds back. I don't even know if this part of the clip I'm going to put in the podcast or not, but you can kind of read the top part of what the guy said.

1:03:02You know, you're seeing what he's seen at the top and what he said about his mother, and I will do this and I will do that to you. Okay, great. Vinny responds back, okay, in an audio. And the guy responds back. I want to play this to you. When you get something like this, do you report it or do you not report it? Do you just kind of let it go? Just listen to the audio. I respect that. Let me slow down a little bit because I have it on 2.0. I respect that, you know, I think. Most of you conservative Americans are a bunch of cowards and clowns. You're lucky you live in America. You're very lucky.

1:03:42You know this. You've gone. I love America. I think God bless America. a guy like you in Europe or in Africa or in South America would be.

1:03:55You'll be killed easily. Like, nobody wants even to touch you because you're too small. Do you understand? That's the reason why you people are not taken seriously. So he continues. Threatens his life on the call, on Instagram, and they're going back and forth. He reported. It took him about 10 minutes to make all the reports. Cases are like this. Because nowadays, it's a lot. I mean, we had to build a wall around this property. When you walked in, this place looks like a, it wasn't like this. It took us three months to build that 10-foot wall around, and we have full-time security 24-7. How does, you know, one, what should you do when you get threats like this?

1:04:34Should you do anything about it? Leave it alone? Don't respond back? Especially with today's class. I'm sure you guys are getting hundreds of thousands of messages that are coming in. What should an individual influencer do? Yeah, so I get stuff too, you know. So just one thing when I was listening to it. So this guy's liberal. I'm just not picking a side. I'm just assessing who I'm listening to. Right. Because he's saying you conservative. So that means he's probably a liberal person. He has an accent. Right. So possibly a foreigner, possibly in another country. And then as he talks, he says, you all live in America.

1:05:05So if you were in Africa and Europe, you'd be taken out. So that leads me to believe he's where is he here? He says he's based out of Belgium. He is a Muslim who doesn't like some of the thoughts of one of the interviews we did with an individual. Okay. So he's overseas. He's overseas. Good luck. What are you going to do with that? Nothing. Exactly. He's overseas. No one's going to extradite. No one's going to. These happen so much. And that's why I'm saying like these devices are really, they're just toxic. Because now everybody has access to you. Everybody has access to me. I'm on social. I didn't have any social actually until after I left the United States Secret Service.

1:05:42I had nothing. I had no LinkedIn. Nobody needs to know anything. Even my birthday that's out there right now, it's fake. I just put fake birthdays everywhere I go. So I do everything I can to shield and protect myself. So when it's overseas and the majority, this is just for people to know when you're arguing on social, it's either a bot a lot of times or the person's overseas. And you also, you have foreign actors that are really smart. They're trying to, they're creating more polarization. If I'm from the outside and I want to destroy a country, what's the best way to destroy a country from within, from within.

1:06:16And so what they're doing, which is really clever, a lot of these foreign actors, they're creating a dialogue so people can fight from within. So I would just tell people, I would caution you, please be hyper aware. All these things you think you're fighting for, the righteousness and use these words, justification, all this stuff you think you're helping, you're being used in many of these circumstances and you're being manipulated to fight from within. The attack is coming from the outside. I would caution people, pause, think, I got to tell you, Patrick, I don't write anything hateful about anybody.

1:06:47And there's things I see where in a side, I'm like, I roll my eyes too. But I'm like, I do not want to help add. I love the United States. I love the U.S. I was born here. My parents are immigrants. But this country has given me so many wonderful things. And I do not want to add to the hate and the volatility and the destruction of it. Because we are not realizing we are incrementally allowing ourselves to be used in such a way. So did you guys like even, maybe it's a different time, because nowadays with podcasters and influencers, you know, reports come out that some people are getting paid from this country, that country, this country.

1:07:25It's a very easy way to divide America right now. Just go find a couple guys, pay them$25,$50 million, give them a message that you want them to say based on this. Do you think any of that is happening? Yes, 100 % it's happening. It's 100 %? Because they're like, oh, I'm getting paid. I don't know who's paying me, but he would like me to do this ad. They're not thinking. And, you know, can I ask you, what's the predominant age of most influencers? 30s to 40s. Right. Do you really think they're thinking about it? This is their livelihood. They just want to get paid. You think really that's all it is?

1:07:52They're not knowing what their money is coming from. And I'm talking about specifically, I'm not even talking about influencers that are content creators. I'm talking about political influencers that are getting paid by some of these other countries that are, you know, wanting them to say, no, it's not that big of a deal. The enemy is really this person. The enemy is really that person. That's influence. Do you think the U.S. government knows that these people are getting paid? I think that this is new, and I think that they're starting to track it or trace it. I think, you know, you were talking about starting a business.

1:08:19We should probably start a business where if you're an influencer or somebody, we can track, like, where the money is coming from. You know what that report would do? It would be the biggest report of all time if you can pull that off. Right? Tracking, like, this person's trying to pay you to say this. Who are they? Where's the money coming from? Where are they located? Where's the company at? right? Who's actually really in charge. You know, I always get offers online like, Hey, we're your creator or whatever they call it. We want to partner with you on this. I delete all of those. I don't know who you are.

1:08:50I don't know what you want me to say. I don't know where the money is coming from. But it's different with you. You're a we person. So a we person is different than a me person. Agreed. That wants to get the cash and the check. So the, the, the average influencer is not that they're getting money from a lot of places right now. So there has to be at some point, some type of infrastructure built where there is some kind of liability on you, the influencer, if you're agreeing to do this, that you have to follow some kind of best practices or protocols to make sure that where the money is coming from is legit.

1:09:21How do you do that? That's... With shell accounts and all this stuff. Correct. Two weeks ago, I had this guy on the podcast. He's the one that did the tweet about anthropic AI that it's the end of the world. to be careful and, you know, we shouldn't do this. He worked at OpenAI for a few years and then he went on. Biggest tweet of the year was his tweet. I don't know if you saw that or not. It was massive. It went viral. So he sat here. I said, so what's your biggest concern? He says, well, you know, I said, so, you know, is the concern that China's going to get this technology before we are? He says, whatever we have, China has.

1:09:55I said, why do you say that? He says, because Chinese nationals are working at companies like OpenAI and Anthropic. And so they're relaying the message to whatever's going on here over there. Okay. How does the country today, when he's talking about the director of Secret Service, the threats are up 40 percent. Forget about the threats. Espionage. You have Intel being sold, Intel being sent back. And all these guys are coming. You're working. You're the Chinese folks are long term thinkers. That's not our business model. We don't say, let me go work in China. They would never let that happen with us.

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1:13:43So this goes back to what we were talking about before, the hiring process. You have to do a deep dive into people's background to figure out what you can. AI companies with access to the best technology. You don't think they're doing it? I think that they're hiring in mass numbers. I think, Patrick, it's the checklist. Okay, you have this skill, you have that. I don't think people are putting as much. Now they are. I've had companies come to me because I do keynotes and I do training sometimes. And I'll ask them, what are some of the issues you're dealing with? And this is an issue that they have outside actors sending people into them for jobs.

1:14:16and they're trying to manage it or they're getting deep fakes. A lot of the deep fakes come from Korea. And it's like almost like they're supposed to get a number of jobs. Korea? South. North, of course. Yeah, right? Yes, Korea. That's another thing. They do deep fakes. And in fact, kind of one thing to look out for is if during the interview, they say, excuse me, I have to use the restroom. That's a sign that they switch people. So there's all these different things. So I speak at a lot of these companies that deal with security. They're concerned. So yes, are there actors in there? Yes, because I think initially, and I don't think all of HR is properly trained.

1:14:51They're thinking who's going to spy on us and then until it gets too late. So the thing with China is accurate and correct. China takes everything. They don't look at it like we're stealing. They look at it like we're taking this to help our country. And if you are a Chinese national, like they have the right to take your stuff. There's almost like, if you go to China, by the way, if you ever go to China, don't bring your phone, don't bring your laptop. It's garbage. You can automatically assume that it's going to get compromised. Take a fake phone and then toss it. Didn't the President of the United States recently go?

1:15:25They got all these gifts from China. Did you read the reports of what they did with those gifts? They threw them in the trash. Because they have devices, they have monitoring. When we go overseas to certain countries, there are certain countries where you were told, don't bring your stuff. just know yourself is going to be compromised. So the first thing I did when I got to the US, I would hand over my phone, hand over my devices, and the IT department would decide, is there any spyware or malware? Some country was like, it's garbage. So I would caution these countries. I know the United States is very much about, we want to hire everybody.

1:15:58We want to invite everybody. We want to have everyone. The problem is you're also not living in reality. And Americans are very, they're very good people. They have a good heart and they project out onto other countries that they are the same or other groups of people and not everybody is the same. And so we are seen as quite naive. And we are by them, by the enemy. Yes, we are seen as naive and easily taken advantage of because we're very much like everybody, please come. And you want that because I've benefited from it. You have as well. But you also have to have protocols in place, a filter system, layers of security to catch bad actors.

1:16:38You can't live in la-la land and not presume that there are not bad actors. You're also the most powerful country in the world, so there is incentive to do this. If we were like nothing, nobody, then they wouldn't bother. But because, and also, you know better than I, where do all the great companies exist, all the great innovators exist? What country? The U.S. Thank you. So where's everybody going to try to steal and take espionage from? I heard this quote once. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. China has a lot of jobs, but the United States has Steve jobs. Understand? So I think we have to think differently.

1:17:15It's not that you're excluding people. It is that you are the gatekeeper of who you hire. Slow down, look into people's backgrounds, check references, know who you're going to verify things, go online. So even if somebody has come for a job, go back and look at that LinkedIn profile. Does it look legit? Does it look fake? Does it look like a bot? Yeah, the concern right now is with the AI war is it's forget about what I'm doing. What are they doing? You know, what are they doing to not have the information being shared over there? What are some influencers doing that are giving messages that pins America against America and confuses the hell out of the younger generation?

1:17:50And how do you control that? Because freedom of speech is a big part of America and I'm a freedom of speech absolutist. So what do you do? Do you create certain criterias of when you're getting paid from an outside actor or another country, you have to publicly announce the fact that they're paying you? There's got to be like in financial services. When I was a Series 766, there's something called an OBA. You have to report every 90 days your outside business activity and your outside brokerage account. So I have an account with, let's just say, Morgan Stanley Dean Witter. You have to say, how's your account doing?

1:18:23You have to give the report statement. Did you create any new accounts? I did. What are they? Here's a TD Waterhouse. Here's a T. Rowe Price. Okay, great. We need to know, boom, great. Outside, what other sources of income do you have? I have to have this source of income. Does it need to be that where a, I don't know. But to me, if someone's getting paid from an outside country, I would want to know, especially if you have a massive level of influence, but then that could be also free market capitalism. I can do business with anybody. the way the constitution is set up it's so phenomenal but it's also got opportunities for other bad actors to come and exploit it there's a price with freedom of speech well look when it was created who would have thought of all this stuff i think it's creating oversight it's going to take time and it's going to take unfortunately we are reactive we are a reactive country and it's going to take something bad something very obvious to happen before happen Some type of committee or oversight or even maybe a new department is developed that has oversight over such things.

1:19:24Right now it's the Wild West. So I think something significantly bad is going to happen that they're going to say, OK, we have to do something. Everything we do, as great as we are, we are a reactive country. Something happens because we don't want to violate people's rights. We don't want to take away from people. So it's OK. Now this happened. We have to do something. Even if you just look at something simple as 9-11 before to sit and listen to somebody's conversation, you would have to. It was an act of God to actually get a wiretap to listen to phone conversation before 9-11. After it happened, then the Patriot Act came out and it was like, hey, all you had to say is this is tied potentially to terrorism.

1:20:03And then you can get it easier. Good decision or bad decision? Patriot Act. I think it was a good decision at the time. They did the best they could with the information they had at the time. You're just trying to protect and prevent another 9-11. So I think we learn as things happen. It was meant to be good. I think when it starts to be overly used, compromised, abusive, where humans are flawed, that's when you're like, hey, wait a minute. Yeah. So, you know, that's obviously 9-11. You brought up 9-11. You had an experience with 9-11. You went to the towers at 9-11. Maybe share that with the audience.

1:20:43So the U.S. Secret Service field office was in Seven World Trade Center. CIA was also in there. I believe FEMA was there, emergency management. There was a whole bunch of us in there. So when I was actually in early for work because I was working a case, and that's when the first plane hit. So I remember hearing the sound and then looking out the window because the towers were right next to us because they were all collected and looking up and seeing the fire in the hole. And so immediately myself and some other agents, we mobilized and then we went down to to try to exit to help. And I remember we could not exit from the front because the debris from the building was collapsing at the front and around seven.

1:21:24So we had to go through the back. And then as we were trying to go to the tower, the second plane came and hit. And so as we're running this way, the tower is, let's say, my mic. We're going this way. um here are the two towers and then this other plane comes and hits and then all the debris start shooting at us um then we take cover and it was either honestly it was either you got hit or you got missed like there was no you were injured it was either you got hit and you were gone because of the debris and the metal i mean that you're looking at things the size of this table and cars there was no walking away and so i was there for um to render aid to respond for the first collapse, the second collapse, and then I stayed a few weeks later to help with the cleanup and rescue efforts as well.

1:22:13Search, right? Yeah, I mean, it was a tragic day. We'll never forget. I got started with Morgan Stanley Dean Woodard day before 9-11, and I was supposed to go to New York because that's where our headquarters was. I was supposed to go get trained there. On the creative side, you're saying something's got to happen for us to, you know, unfortunately, a threat's probably going to be happening. what does the next threat look like? You saw the director of secret service, you know, one of the things he brought about drones. I don't know if you have that clip on drones or not. He says, we don't know how to go up against drones.

1:22:46And I don't even know if I want our director of secret service to even saying that, but I think one of the things he brought up is, you know, we've never experienced drone attacks the way they are right now. So what are the future threats? How do you, how do you view that? So what he was saying, I watched that clip. So what he is saying is he's saying we can mitigate individual drones. So they probably take down three to four drones a week, just at the White House complex. So they can mitigate. They take three or four drones a week? Oh, yeah, at events, at different, at the White House, at different events.

1:23:18I'm trying to think, yeah. So they can take them down. They're about, you just don't hear about them. They use jammers. They use different things to help with that. They also have this new device where they actually can catch drones midair because they're worried about Somebody attaching explosives to a drone and using that initially and I'll use my phone One of the things when we would work rope lines is I did not want people Putting their phone in the president's face during a rope line because you can lace this thing with some type of device some type of explosive device, put it in front of the president's face and then detonate, detonate it.

1:24:00So we were always concerned about people lacing devices. When we would check the camera equipment, when the press would come, we have them lay out all their camera equipment. We open it up, turn it on. I want to see how it works because I want to see if something goes boom. So now they're worried about explosives being attached to drones, which can easily be mobilized. Now, their concern is a mass attack of drones, meaning you've got a hundred drones all with explosives. And that's being concentrated together to make one massive attack or maybe multiple attacks in a specific area. That's what they're trying to figure out.

1:24:36How do you, can you prevent that? That's what they're thinking. They're thinking, and I will give them credit. They're thinking with their imagination, which is what you should do. They're thinking with their imagination. They're trying to make, especially the White House, the most safest and secure place right now. And it should be. It probably is the most secure place in the world. Where is the White House? The White House. You think so? Yeah, I think so. Really? Yeah, there's things that you don't see. Like what? I can't tell you. I don't want anyone calling me afterwards. But it's really secure.

1:25:06It's locked down. If I'm in the house, I'm probably safe. There's ways to move around. The underground? I don't know anything. Yeah. So there was a movie done a few years ago with Gerard Butler was in it. Angel has fallen. I don't know if you remember that. Was it Angel or Olympus has fallen? No, there's both of them. But one of them was Angel has fallen where Morgan Freeman was the president and they're out there fishing. Yeah. I don't know if you remember that one scene. He's fishing and then you see an air. See if you can find this clip on YouTube. You see hundreds and hundreds of drones flying their way.

1:25:43and that is the first time when I saw a clip visually to say, how do we defend against that? It's not like we have a, it's that one right there, it's the second one. If you go, well, seven minutes, we can't go to it. Maybe while we're doing this, click on that and we may need to cut it. I don't even know if we can show this clip or not. I'm just showing it to you. Maybe the audience doesn't see it. We just see it. The drones one by one come. Fast forward to the scene where the drone attack comes. It's like literally hundreds, if not thousands in the air that get deployed and he throws the president in the water.

1:26:15Yeah, right there. How do you fight against this? How do you fight against all these hundreds, if not thousands of drones are coming? Look at this. Yeah, it's a thing. Also, don't forget airspace. You have help from the military as well. So having military aircraft on standby to help, to assist, to shoot down anything, the problem is time. One of the things they do is they do clear airspace. When he's in certain areas or moving, you will clear the airspace for his movement so that you don't want anybody flying through or near or around. I'm not saying it's not hard, and I think that's why the deputy director was just being transparent.

1:26:54So, you know, when you look at these, there you go, one by one by one. He throws a president in there. Morgan Freeman's the president. and thousands. So we were, there's a business that you hired them and they get 500 drones and the 500 drones gets up and it shows Future Looks Bright or our company logo. It's entertaining. We did this. We did this a couple years ago at Flagler's Estate in Palm Beach and it was a great experience. So what if this guy is a bad actor? What if this guy is a Chinese national? What if this guy is like, hey, here's a party we're doing a drone show. Under each one of those drones put a little bomb that you have.

1:27:28Kind of like what are those drones called that they showed, the flare that they showed, the recent technology with drones that the U.S. government showed. Palmer Luckey is working on some drones right now, but we learned with this recent warfare with Russia and Ukraine and Iran that really the one that all these big military didn't know how to defend were the drones, right? And this was one of them. These are the flare drones that they come in and light the place up, and they're small. They just cost a few hundred dollars to a couple thousand dollars to make. And big militaries like Russia don't know how to fend these guys off.

1:28:03You know what I think that they might do? And again, this is just surmising because obviously I don't know. It would be interesting if you create counter drones that actually, like almost kamikaze drones that hit the other drones. But they would just have them explode in air rather than on the ground, like as a countermeasure. So you're jamming and then the ones that, almost like a missile hitting another missile in the air. They're going to have to come up with really creative ways to figure this out. What does Israel have that the interceptors that they have, what do they call it? The bubble, what is it called?

1:28:36The golden dome, right? And the president. The iron dome, iron dome. They were talking about building that here, but threats are changing. So you didn't give me the answer. What do you, like if they were to, if they did 9-11, how, what could the threat look like from the enemy? I don't know if you're going to have another 9-11 because right now it's easier to do different attacks using AI, corrupting people from the inside, poisoning water. Did you just see something that just happened? I saw it in the news. Somebody, this was in France. They were able to get into the system that refrigerates, excuse me, the food and supermarket and a big supermarket.

1:29:14And they increased the temperature overnight in the supermarket so that all the food would spoil. They, they, they hacked into the, yes, they hacked into the supermarket. So I see stuff like that where you're terrorizing and you're - That's brilliant. Yeah, they spoiled all the food. They turned up the temperature in the freezers and in the supermarket overnight. French supermarket, fridges hacked, heated to 122 degrees and sparking. This was just yesterday, two hours ago. This is the new way to attack. I'm going to take out your water supply. I'm going to take out your food supply. It's harder to attack physically, I think, today, just because of all the awareness.

1:29:54I think the attacks are coming in a different way through cyber, through AI. I mean, even getting into the system, the grid system, and just taking out all the traffic lights in a place like New York City. I'm not trying to give ideas, right? But, or taking out the system. Greece had something recently where all the, their whole infrastructure for their air traffic control, everything went down. And there were planes just flying around. the whole airport when the system went dark. So I think these are the types of attacks you're going to see, and they're going to be having happening everywhere.

1:30:28They're easier to do. They're safer to do. I'm doing them for far away. The ones where you're going to see kind of, I'm going to go open fire or try to do a physical attack. I those, you'll see those, the lone wolves, like they had just recently arrested somebody. Where was that arrest that just happened? I'm drawing up at the night. They were at the mall of America's. Wasn't somebody who just going to do a shootout ISIS inspired? I believe. You'll have those. But if we're talking mass, mass. I'm talking mass. I'm not talking. I think mass is going to come. Well, he supposedly has ties, but I think the mass attacks are going to be water, electrical systems, taking down the grid, things like that, and doing it from overseas and doing it, other countries doing it or other bad actors doing it.

1:31:10Here's the thing with bad actors or the bad guy, however you want to say it. They spend all their time trying to create ways to hurt you. they just that's all they do that's their goal you're trying to run your country you're trying to keep civilians safe you're trying to secure the government you're trying to do all these different things so that's why it's very dangerous because sometimes we become reactive it has to happen for us to know and then to respond yeah there was a test they did six weeks ago ukraine with their drones in the u.s military i don't know if you heard about this or not so they send their drone team and they went up against the U.S.

1:31:52military. And you know who won? Ukraine won. And then I had a conversation with a guy that works, you know, he was involved in this operation. Yeah, U.S. and Ukraine forces went head to head in an exercise. Ukraine's drones won. And this was literally a few, two months ago. And when it happened, August 13th. So we're entering a very different climate. But that conversation about, you know, raising the temperature at every single Publix, at every single Vons, at every single. Who would think of that? Like, I would have never thought of that. That's brilliant, though. That's it. So you do this to all the supermarkets.

1:32:27Nobody can get food. I mean, you're not going to take out all the food, but just think about it. It is brilliant. I don't want to give bad, but it is. I mean, you see that you're like, I can't tell you how many times I would interview people. And I was fascinated criminals as to how they committed the crime. And I would sit there. I'm like, how did you do it? Please explain to me. And usually some of them were a bit narcissistic, which I hoped, because they were like, oh, let me tell you. Brag about it. And I would just let them brag. But there were times where we would have like a scratch in the head.

1:32:54I don't know how this person did this. That to me, that to me is a brilliant attack. I almost feel like, you know, you have to hire those people and bring them in. Kind of like how FDR back in the days brought a guy. He hired the guy that destroyed the stock market, which was Joseph Kennedy. And then there was a guy named Frank Abingale. I don't know if you know him. Wasn't he the catch me if you can guy? Yeah, Leonardo the kid. They brought him. It's like, oh shit, this is how you would steal money from the man. Yes. And so he gave a lot. He's actually a very good speaker when he gives us stories.

1:33:23Okay. So let's go to the next word. The word I want to talk to you about is justification, right? I shared that with you at the beginning, the word justification. So Lindsay Clancy happens, all right? And we know the Lindsay Clancy story. She happens. She kills her three kids. I think it's eight months old. three-year-old and five-year-old. And we see the juror, 11 to one, one guy's like, nope, I'm not with it. You can't get me to flip. And she was going to go, just go to a mental hospital. You don't understand. It's not for all this stuff. Right afterwards, I wanted to pull up how many cases similar to her has happened.

1:33:57So I'll give you a few of them. First one is Corey Walsh, Illinois. September 1st, 2026, she was charged with murdering her two-year-old son, Barrett. Prosecutors say she closely followed Clancy's trial and texted friends about it hours before killing her two-year-old son. Her attorney says she was experiencing psychosis. Then you have another one. Justine Marie May, South Carolina. It's September 29, 2026, a few weeks ago. charged with two counts of homicide by child abuse after her daughters, ages 2 and 15 months, died from starvation and dehydration. Affidavits said she had spent two weeks in a blur.

1:34:38She couldn't remember what happened. Kind of see the pattern here, what's going on. Another one we have is Janet McOsland, Massachusetts, accused of killing her children, ages 6 and 7. After Clancy's mistrial, her attorney invoked the Clancy prosecution while asking prosecutors to reconsider their approach. Colleen Lemon killed Christopher and Brian, her kids, her children. This just happened a week ago, two weeks ago. Sybella Savella killed her daughter, four years old. This happened three weeks ago. I can tell you so many different cases. So how much of psychologically are we going to see women who are seeing this happen as a pattern, and they're coming out there, you know, with this case and saying somebody else who's already doing this influenced me to consider violence or giving them justification to say, you know, this is not my fault.

1:35:32You don't know what I'm going through. How much of that case influences others to do the same? So it's copycats. I covered this case. It's copycats. I said it like whenever somebody does something or something like this happens, the first thing in my head is like someone's going to copy it, where it becomes difficult. And I don't think I'm, again, I don't know the prosecutors of this case personally. I do not think that they expected the turnout and support that Lindsay Clancy got. I think they expected the population of the vast majority to be like this for this to be abhorrent. You've killed your three kids.

1:36:09I really thought that they thought it was going to be a slam dunk. And so I think, I don't want to say that they were not prepared. I just think they didn't see it coming. I don't think a lot of people saw this coming. So I'll give kudos to Lindsay Clancy's lawyer. He did a great job, obviously, because he did such a good job arguing this, that it's taken this thing. So what's happening with her is it's justification. She is saying, I looked at the history of all the different things she did. She's having issues, and she went from this doctor to this doctor to this doctor. Each one gave her different medications, changed the medication.

1:36:42So she has a repeated pattern of going, asking for help, going to these doctors. They're giving her different meds. At one point, she voluntarily commits herself, then I think leaves five days after because she didn't want to miss her kid's birthday. So you see a pattern. She's telling people, I'm hearing things. She's telling people, I don't. She's doing all these things. She's communicating this. Now, the argument is, there's a couple arguments. One, is it the medications that she was given that caused this behavior? So could you argue, has she not taken any of these medications, would she have done it?

1:37:17But then you could also argue, well, you don't have to take the medications a doctor gives you, right? I'm giving multiple angles if we're looking at, did the meds make her do it? But then is there a level of responsibility on myself if I choose to take something that I know is making me not feel well? Do I still say, well, it's your fault. You're the doctor. You gave me this, right? Is there not a level of responsibility on myself to say, I shouldn't be taking this? Because I am voluntarily taking it. Nobody's making me take it. That's one. The other issue is, I think that when you look at what she did, it's either, there has to be some kind of consequence.

1:37:55It cannot be the person gets let go, because then you're going to have a prolific escalation of this stuff. I agree. There has to be, either you get committed. and if you get committed, you could be in there longer than what you would have gotten if you were to go to prison sometimes, depending on what you did, or do you go to prison, but you have to create some kind of consequence. It cannot be, it cannot be we're letting you go because you are going to create a ripple effect. The other thing is how she committed the crime. So I looked at that because I was looking at it for the news. She is telling him, go here, go run this errand, go pick up food, then go do something else.

1:38:31She speaks to him at one point on the phone. She talks with him and says, Hey, I need you to do something. Everything's fine. And then she's, she's taking actionable steps to commit the crime to kill one child. And then you move and you kill the other child. So if you're looking at that, at the breakdown of how she did it, you could also make the argument that she understood and was consciously aware enough to what put a plan together and continue to carry out that plan. When you look at insanity, please. And I taught this when I taught my criminal justice courses, there's different tests. There's the one's the McNaughton test, but essentially they say that you are so incapable of understanding what you are doing in that moment that there's one that called the police test that even if a police officer showed up behind your shoulder and said, Hey, stop, you wouldn't have stopped.

1:39:19You would have kept going that you are so unaware. I don't know. And again, there was a jury and it It was 1101. So again, I just don't know, given all those facts of how she followed through with the crime, that you can completely say, hey, it's absolute psychosis. Because when you think psychosis, like, what level of psychosis? Am I not there? I do think there should be a level of consequence. It cannot just be you're going. It's either a person should be committed. Like, you can't. How can you release this person back into society after what they did? What do you think needs to happen to her?

1:39:54they're going to have a retrial. I think there should just be a level. There should either be commitment. Like they should, she should be put in an institution or there should be a level of, of a jail or it would be prison. But you know what, Patrick, let me just say one thing and I cut you off. I'm so sorry. If you look at people in prison right now, do you know many of them have mental health issues? A lot of them. So now, so then where's the cutoff point? So then if you do that for her, then shouldn't you do it for the rest of the population? The vast majority, a lot of people who commit crime, they have mental health issues.

1:40:28So now why are they held? I'm going to give you the other argument. So why are they, why are you punishing them but not punishing her if it's the same thing? So then are we saying which kind of mental health is it? Because go to a prison, go to a prison or jail. People have serious mental health issues. You think this person deserves death penalty? now are you asking me as a human being like me personally evie you i will tell you this i don't like the death penalty this is personal i'm not i'm not pro against it and this is why the reason why is i always try to envision because i work for government if i would be comfortable taking the life of another person i would be the one either administering the the charge or administering the the actual death of that person and in my soul i cannot do that i personally rather would see the person imprisoned for the rest of their life.

1:41:22The other thing is, and that's just more from a human standpoint, I'm not saying people have to agree with it. That's just me personally. Oh, again, I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, you.

1:41:35However, it actually costs more money. Now people argue money. If you look at money and what it costs, more expensive, more expensive to give death penalty than to keep you in prison. It's cheaper to keep you in prison. Did you know this? You didn't know this. So it is more expensive to give somebody the death penalty. Because of the legal process that you have to go through to give somebody the death penalty. There's an appeals, there's a system, because you have to look at it this way. If I kill you, it is irreversible. So there's a system that goes into place. If you give somebody the death penalty, you have to run through these systems.

1:42:10And respectfully, none of these kids are ever going to be back. No, no, no. If we're talking monetary. No, but to me, it's the concern I have is justification because all these other mothers are like, I'm also going through psychosis and postpartum. You know, I'm also going through all this stuff. So now these kids are not going to live a full life. So what do we do? Do are we? Okay. So it leads me to the next one, which is the consequences. So we have a major, right? What's his name? Major. Do you have his name? Major. um, major Nadal Hassan. Okay. Who this guy, I remember him. You remember him.

1:42:50This guy a few years ago could have been a 2009. If I have the dates correct, it's 2009, 2009, November 5th. He decides to kill 13 soldiers. This is a major, not a second Lieutenant. Yeah. Not a first Lieutenant. It's a major. You have to go and do your job. He kills 13 soldiers. 32 other soldiers get injured. and Hexet comes out and says, we're going to do a public execution old school style and we're going to live stream it. Okay. Do you think, do you have the same position with that as you do with Lindsey Clancy? Because this is, you're wearing the uniform. You're wearing the uniform. Should there be consequences for this major?

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1:45:57Products not available in every state. I you know it's hard for me to answer because I understand what the government's trying to do they're trying to dissuade bad behavior they're trying to stop this stuff and they're saying we're being too relaxed I I will say this I am in agreement that if you do something here's how you deter bad behavior just to be clear one I have to know I'm gonna get caught I have to know I'm get caught. If I think I can get away with it, I'm going to do it. That's one. Hang on. The other aspect is, is there a punishment or penalty? But here's the other thing I'm going to say to you.

1:46:33If you're dealing with this type of thing where I'm a martyr and I'm okay with dying, I'm going to flip it back to you. Then Patrick, doesn't matter. If you do a public execution, I'm a martyr now. I'm okay to die. So it may work with a certain population of people. It will not work with all the population of people. So all you've done is make me a martyr because I'm okay to die. I was okay to die in the first place. I just happened to not die when I was executing it. Was this guy, the major, and I forget his name that we just said, was he okay to die when he did that? For sure. For sure. So if we do a public execution of him, is it going to set?

1:47:08Form of recognition. Yeah, I'm a martyr. Look what they're doing to me. I died for the cause. So that's why I would just really look at it and not project as Americans what we think will deter crime because I don't know. I don't know. it will deter crime with a certain population of people. But with this population, when it's terrorism, where I believe that I am doing the work of my God, of Allah, or whoever, I believe in this cause. And I, I will give my life for this cause. That's where I don't think that will work. What's this, Umberto?

1:47:45To make sure he doesn't get the recognition. Yeah. The dumping bin Laden to see, which I don't have a lot of questions with that one, but that's a whole different thing. I don't want to get into that one.

1:47:56Yeah, I get that argument as well, because now somebody else may be, oh, my God, I'm going to do it because I'm going to be here. I'm going to do it. I'm going to stand and be shot. I'm going to be a hero. Yeah, go ahead and do it to me. You understand what's going to happen? Because with my religion, afterlife, I'm going to get this and I'm going to get that. I'm OK giving it up for this. And it's notoriety. You're going to televise this. Everyone's going to see me die for my cause. Do you see what I'm laying out? Like most people who do this, they want notoriety. We used to, what was the things that we would look at for a perfect attack?

1:48:26Population, a lot of people in one condensed area, press. If there's no media to see it, what's the point of me doing it? I want you to see me do this. The enemy does it that way. Meaning, remember back in the days, do you remember the story of Vlad the Impaler? Yes, Dracula. Right. And he did it because there was a leader called Mohammed II, second and, you know, who was in love with his brother and he used him as a man toy and all this stuff. And that a hundred thousand army and one by one by one, I think he ends up, I don't know what the number is, 20 ,000 people in pails just to make a statement.

1:49:02I'm like, you're going to do this to us. We're going to do this to you. And it showed how capable he was. Now he died in a brutal way himself. That's what's going to happen to you. Eventually you have to be able to understand that if you do that to others, it's going to backfire on you. I just think when you're dealing with an enemy, sometimes, you know, even this guy that Vinny was going back and forth with, by the time the message was done, he was very nice. He was no longer being a, it was almost like, you know, you act tough because you're around people, but you're not going to be tough once the reality is you're by yourself.

1:49:33You know, I, and it goes back to what you said earlier, which I wonder how you take this contradiction. It's like America is seen by the enemies as very naive. And I agree. I agree that we're saying I lived in Iran 11 years. So yeah. I'm Greek. Yeah. I know. They're naive. So do you think it's a good strategy to maybe sometimes change that approach and say, you know what? And we're a little bit off as well. You know, we're also capable of doing X, Y, Z. You cross the line with uniform. Here's what we do with you. My biggest concern is the uniform part. I get it. It's the uniform part. You can't cross the line with uniform.

1:50:09You cross the line with uniform. we have to make a massive example out of you. Now you have a different position with that, but that's kind of how I process that. I don't, I want to be frank. I don't have a position. I'm really, I'm just in the, I don't, I wish I said I had a right answer. I don't, I don't have a position. If they do it, they do it. If they don't, they don't. I was saying initially, if I had to pull the trigger, me personally, if they were like every, I'm in uniform, you go do it. That would be just hard for me as a human to do. Just that's just me personally. But I understand, obviously I was trained to take lives.

1:50:41I was in law enforcement. So I understand that. I'm just saying that, Patrick, sometimes I don't know what the right answer is, and I understand what the message is to send to those in uniform. I think, but I also think that this might backfire on them too, where everyone's like, look how horrible the U.S. is. Look at what they're doing. They will demonize it. Nothing we do is comparable to what the enemy does. I agree, but we're the ones who are, we're the ones who are being assessed by everybody. And here's the problem. It's our own people inside that are saying hateful things about us. Like the, the, the enemy isn't, the enemy is within.

1:51:25There's got to come a time where you're like, it's okay. Say whatever you want to say about me. We're not, we're a, if we go to sleep worrying about what they're saying about us, that's also a way that they're winning. because they're scaring. You see, there used to be a time in 2019 where I was afraid of talking about politics because I ran an insurance company and I was about to sell it and 99 % of my wealth was tied to that company. So I was paper rich. So when you're paper rich, you walk a little bit different because you don't have cash in the bank. I only had like a couple million dollars in the bank.

1:51:56I'm not wealthy yet. I'm paper rich. Oh, Pat's so rich. No, I'm not. I got, you know, just my mutual fund account. And so eventually I saw what was going on with COVID And I'm like, do I just sit on the sidelines and not say shit because, you know, people are going to criticize me? And that's why I'm like, I can't do that. I can't do that. And I started. And I started talking about it, but in a fair and reasonable way to say, here's what I stand in. These are the questions that I have. And it led to the audience coming and saying, all right, at least many of us started having some courage to talk about it.

1:52:28Because the fear of getting canceled, the fear of all of that is a form of them winning. And so my concern is, you know, we've ever seen the scene with Christopher Walken when he says every once in a while, the lion has to wake up and show everybody what he's all about. You ever seen this clip? I live in New York City. You know, I don't care what the data says. A lot of jackals and lions. I don't care what the data says. People don't feel safe. When you release people on their own recognizance, when there are no consequences and there is no punishment for what you do, you have repeat offenders.

1:53:01People, people get away with it. even turnstiles, like arresting people who jumped the subway, you should absolutely arrest. Because first of all, the psyche of that person's like, you're all sheep, I do what I want. I'm not going to pay. You're all the dummies that are going to pay. You have to, there have to be consequences to the things we do. Even small consequences. It's if you don't nip the small things, the big things get. It's like I have a toddler. I correct all the small stuff because I'm trying to prevent what? From having a big problem later on. So I deal with the small infractions she does so that they don't become bigger infractions.

1:53:37Human beings are the same way. You have to, there has to be consequences to human behavior. I am with you. Now, if we're looking at an international scope, the United States, do I think that we get poked and bullied and taken advantage of? 100%. I worked, I would travel to foreign countries, like we had diplomatic passports. So when we would go overseas, I would deal with foreign countries and even deal with foreign countries here as a liaison. And I would see certain countries would just be extremely difficult to deal with. Certain countries would just push back to push back. Certain countries would just do things.

1:54:10There were times where I was in Russia and I remember the Russians were causing so many issues that I went to the state department person. I was like, where's your teeth? I literally said this. I'm like, how could you let this happen? Because we were completely getting rolled. And it was, it was so bad that it was dangerous for my protectee. I said, this is ridiculous. How are you not? And I remember my State Department counterpart at the time was just super meek, super quiet. I'm like, get someone on the phone, fix this. Nothing. So I do think that there's a level of weakness and meekness that does not suit us.

1:54:46That has to change, but it has to change internally in the way we execute and do things. And there have to be consequences internally for the population of people who break crime, who do crime, who break the laws, who hurt people. I'm I'll give you an example my husband former law enforcement 30 years secret service HSI we always had this debate about you know would you arrest this person or not I know these are family dinners and uh he will put somebody over and there were times if a person was young or something and they were intoxicated he might call mom and dad and be like look come pick up your kid he was also a police officer in like a rural area um you give me that scenario I'd be like I'd be throwing cuffs on that kid who's right i'd be throwing cuffs on that kid because you just let that kid go you're assuming his dad's gonna fix him but his dad obviously doesn't have that much influence because he took the car he's driving and he's intoxicated and how do i know next week he's gonna be like oh yeah easy i didn't get caught he goes kill somebody else my husband's looking at it from a different perspective he's 16 he's dumb do i want to put this on his record and ruin his life his parents are coming everyone's you know it's a more of a community human thing Who's right?

1:55:56You ever seen the movie The Judge? Yes, Robert Downey Jr. The story is that with him and his son. You know, where the son screws up and he puts him in jail, but he lets the other guy go, and the other guy comes out and kills somebody, and he is, what's the right move to make? Yeah, it's a very difficult conversation, and everybody has a different position. but I think we've gotten soft and I like that we are imposing a little bit. And the worry is, listen, in America, whoever the president is going to change the next four to eight years. So ideas are going to change. So you, you know, then you get soft again and you get hard again, you get soft again, you get tough again.

1:56:36So it'd be interesting to see what direction we go with this. I think a big part of the reason we're also having a problem. If you think back to the eighties and nineties, crime was very high at that time. You go to New York, pull up old, pull up. Look at me like it's my podcast. Pull up old photos of New York City subways. Graffiti everywhere. They were one of the most dangerous things to be on. And then they came in and they cleaned it up, started locking everybody up. You put graffiti up, you had handcuffs on you. It was riding the subway. Type in graffiti. Put 80s when it was really bad. 80s?

1:57:08Yeah, put the 80s. Graffiti 80s. I mean, you don't want to get on a subway. Look at that. Who wants to get on that? Look how dangerous that is. And it was not just the graffiti, but the inside. That's what I grew up in because I grew up in New York. You didn't get on the subway. It was dangerous. You might get stabbed or whatever. So they clean it up in the 90s, mid-90s. It gets cleaned up. So 90s. This is post-Juliana. Juliana, clean house. Yes, yes. Juliana's a clean house. In the 90s, the 2000s, 2010s, 20s. So that's, what, 30 years ago, 40 years? So you have a new generation of people who, what, didn't grow up around that.

1:57:43So they don't know what it was like before you had these laws. these laws or consequences that help minimize this stuff. See, but that validates my point because - It does. At the time, the NYPD commissioner was an old friend of mine, Bernard Carrick. He passed. Passed two years ago, yes. And we spoke right before he passed. But Bernard Carrick was, you know, K, K. Bernard Carrick was a, he faced these mobsters like a mobster himself. He wasn't soft. He's like, oh, this is what you're going to do? No problem. This is what you're going to do. And remember, this guy was a former commissioner of the New York correctional facility.

1:58:27Yes. And then he went from there to being the commissioner of NYPD. And you know, his son is now a cop as well. His son is now NYPD. Yeah, I think he's in Jersey. I don't think he's in New York. I think. So, yeah, I don't know. Security is very important. They just changed their standards, by the way. Good or bad? They lowered their standards. In what way? So you used to need 24 credits to become a police officer. Excuse me, you used to need, I think it was 60 credits to be a police officer. And I guess they weren't getting people. I mean, who wants to be a cop now? I mean, it's just terrible for you.

1:59:03No one supports you. I mean, they're going to punish the cop before they punish the criminal. However, they dropped it from 60 to 24 credits. Stop it. Yes. You only need 24 credits now to be a police officer. and they lowered the age as well to get younger people, which I think is also another detriment because when you're young, your brain's not. And what age to what age? I think it's at 20 and a half now. Oh yeah, 20 and a half. They actually got rid of, I think last year, the year before, they actually got rid of the mile and a half run and they just put it back. So they got rid of making you run.

1:59:36You had to run a mile and a half to get hired within a certain window of time. They got rid of it because people couldn't pass it. At least now they can't pass it. Back then people I think were healthier, more physically in a better physical condition, but people were not passing it. And now they just reinstated it because you need it. If you can't run, you can't be, here we go. College credits, center Academy, 60 credits. Now 24 credits, minimum application age, 21 before 20 years, six months. So they dropped it slightly. Academy college credits awarded 36 before 45 after mile and a half run time eliminated in 2023.

2:00:15They just put it back in 2025. Police entrance exam, less frequent. So the police exam back then when I took it, it was like every few months. If you were, if you could take it, it was a difficult thing to take because they had enough people. And now they're giving the police test every month. And I think they, I can't say this for sure. I want to be careful, but I think they made it a little bit easier to pass. So yeah, they can't fill the positions because nobody wants to be a police officer every question yeah this major nadal okay who killed those 13 soldiers what questions would you ask him to have what questions can the military ask to identify to prevent this from happening i'm thinking more preventative right preventative how could we have prevented this knowing his background knowing his commitment knowing where he lied knowing where his loyalty was, how could we have prevented this?

2:01:11Do we know how long he, let me ask, let me ask one question. Do we know how, when he first entered the military versus when he did it, how long was he a service member? To be a major takes a decade. I mean, you're not going to be a major like, there you go, 88 to 09. So his service year. So he was there for a while. 21 years. So something happened within those 21 years. So it's not his hiring. I don't think that's the issue because if it was, he would have taken action probably sooner. So there's something that happened between him getting hired and him committing this incident that caused this.

2:01:47And I don't remember the case as vividly at the time. I do think one of the important things is, and I don't know if the military does this, so I'm speaking without knowledge. Do they do reassessments of people once they're in? So for example, in the U.S. Secret Service, every five years, they redo a background check on you. So is there something that the military does, and they may already do this, I'm speaking completely ignorantly here, where every number of years, every five years, you reassess an individual. I might lean to saying no, just because the military is so big and vast, that this might be a very difficult thing to do.

2:02:23But I think a situation like this would be doing every several years, doing background checks on people again. Looking at their socials, looking at their devices, saying, hey, can we look at your device? Give me your Instagram handles. Looking at what they're doing, conducting interviews of their family and their neighbors. When you do a background check on someone, you go and talk to their family and their neighbors. This guy was born in America, okay, and he started believing that violent Islamic extremism is what he started embracing and came to believe that killing American soldiers was a religious obligation.

2:03:05That's what it was, his primary motivation, religious radicalization. During his 2013 military trial, he acknowledged that he had switched sides in what he considered a conflict between the U.S. and his religion. He believed the attack on American soldiers was justified because he could eventually be deployed to fight Muslims overseas. This was Hassan's extremist interpretation of Islam, not a positioned representative of Muslim generally is what it's saying here. He was about to be deployed to Afghanistan. And this was an important development immediately preceding the attack. Hassan was a psychiatrist assigned to Fort Hood.

2:03:40This guy was a psychiatrist. Yes, that's correct. As a major. As a major. So part of this is preventative. What can we do to prevent? His colleagues had warned about him. According to Senate investigation, Hassan openly expressed extremist views during his medical training. He gave presentations discussing violent Islamist ideology. Some colleagues considered his behavior alarming. Two officers described him as a potential ticking time bomb. Despite concerns about his conduct and professional performance, he remained in the army. he was promoted and subsequently ordered to Afghanistan. We could have prevented that, no?

2:04:22So let me say this. So then, not to oversimplify it, whose fault is this that this happened, really? Whose fault is it? You just read me all these indicators. Whose fault is it? Is it his or is it the military's? Because you have all these indicators and usually folks will communicate in some way that they're going to do something. So you have all these indicators that were never followed through. Nobody believed it. Nobody followed it through. So where's the responsibility really lay? This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new.

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2:07:22Yeah, but I mean, that can be taken for 9-11. There was warnings about a 9-11 attack. Agreed. We can use that in a lot of different cases. My position is I'm all about what could we have done to prevent this. I'm a business guy, so you have to think about prevention. I'm in the life insurance business. We sold a million insurance policies. To us, it was all about if, God forbid, something happens to the breadwinner, what are you going to do, Mary? You don't have a job. You have three kids. He makes$88 ,000 a year. You guys only have$17 ,000 in the bank. It's preventative. Well, he's only 39 years old.

2:08:00It's preventative, right? So, yes, I do believe that. But, you know, from your standpoint, you're saying the onus from the tone I'm getting from you is the onus is on us, the U.S. military. The onus is on us. And here's why. The U.S. Secret Service actually does national threat assessments. They try to because we've always been looking for the threat, the threat towards the president typically, because that predominantly that's really where it started. Right. And then it's expanded to other things and places and individuals. So one of the things that they look at when it's the threat assessment, they look at what common patterns do we see amongst people who commit these types of attacks.

2:08:35So one of the things he's hitting is he communicated it. They typically communicate it. They tell people, the people around them will say something. And so what I see is a neglect to act to follow through. Just side note, a lot of the attacks that this United States Secret Service is able to thwart. Do you know how a lot of them get mitigated? Family members or parents contact local law enforcement authorities and say, I'm worried about my loved one. They're saying these things. Wow. So one of the ways you mitigate it, you're asking me how to mitigate it. It is teaching people, having the awareness to say something.

2:09:14Now, here, my only concern is people did say something. but to me is, hey, they're telling you this, but the military did not seem to follow through or create any consequences or follow it through to such a degree to prevent this. That's where I see the prevention. You have to have a red flag. That's why I asked you how long ago, 1988. I don't know what they could have done in 1988. One years.

2:09:3921 years. But when you hear something, you must do something about it. And I think a lot of institutions have been relaxed. Yeah. So this again, so this is why the five words for today's conversation, two of them were justification and consequences. Right. So the consequences, if we don't have solid consequences, then that behavior happens. Then another person justifies, I can do it as well. And I'm going to go be a hero. So there's got to be a balance between that. Both of us are parents. You know, you, I think you have two kids. You said you have a four month old and a four year old. Four-month-old.

2:10:14Good for you. Congratulations. Thank you. I'm not sleeping. If anybody wants to know. So there's got to be consequences, right, in everything you do. And some have to be higher, and you've got to make examples of them. You have to make examples. I'll tell you this. The criminal justice system, if we're just talking criminal justice system, and this kind of falls into that, the punishment. Typically, we've been a system historically where we punish people. Actually, if you look at the population of prisoners, If you look at the world population of prisoners, how many people are in prison, 25 % are U.S.

2:10:49prisoners. Then the rest is the rest of the world. So you have to ask yourself, why is one out of every four people in a prisoner jail for the United States? That's one. So what's happening, Patrick, internally in the U.S. where people are committing crimes? And there's a couple of theories about it. So the other thing is you must have consequences. So historically we have been, you commit this crime, you get caught, you get punished. We were big on punishing people, creating consequences, which is a nicer way to say it. However, we've reverted away from that and we've become a bit more of a rehabilitation system, which means the belief in like, can we help people?

2:11:30Can we rehabilitate? Can we rehabilitate people? And what we're finding is that you cannot. But some folks, you can't. You folks, you can't. Also, if you look at who commits the crime, the most crime, it tends to be a small group of people who are repeat offenders. When I worked a case, what was the first thing I did? I ran the rap sheet. I ran the rap sheet. I need to know who you are. If I had no rap sheet, that meant something. If I had a rap sheet, that meant something. So if I see somebody who's been arrested again and again and again and again. It's a pattern. It's a pattern. What are we doing?

2:12:04Most, most, I can't give a percentage, but I would say the vast majority of people I investigated had rap sheets. It was very rare for me to find someone with. It's a big training ground. Once you go in, you're learning. That's a university on how to even commit different types of crimes. Right? You're going in and you're coming out. You know, but to me, there's a level. There's also people that are in prison that sold weed. You don't need to do 20 years or 10 years or whatever it is for selling weed. That's a different, some of the stuff that we have is just, but you cross the line and you kill 13 soldiers.

2:12:39I don't know what to do. Maybe, you know, you go in the middle of the ocean where people go shark fishing and you drop a bunch of blood in there and you attract the fish and then you drop their bodies there and you record it and you release it. Is that a positive thing? I don't know. Is that one way to go? Is it just, hey, don't tell anybody and just kill them? Is it public execution? I don't know. Would you be able to do the public execution? I told you, I'm going to flip it on you. I'm curious. Would you be able to do it? If you were in service and they said, we need you to publicly execute this person.

2:13:09I wouldn't even flinch. You would do it. I wouldn't even flinch. And by the way, I would take the risk of going to hell and God not being happy with my decision. And I will deal with that judgment on judgment day. You cannot cross. I gave this and I'll share this with you. Say you're my sister. Okay? Say you're my wife. You're attractive. I'm delusional if I don't think people are going to flirt with you when you go out. I'm an idiot. I'm delusional if I think men are not going to slide in your DMs. I expect it. I'm a powerful man. You're delusional if you think women are not going to slide in my DMs and flirt with me.

2:13:53It's very normal. Now, if it's a coworker that does it, he crossed the line. What are you doing? If it's my best friend that does it, that's tier one. You don't do that. This is a major in the U.S. Army, Evie. You crossed the line. You crossed the line. And now you are not for us. You're doing it for another country who's an enemy of ours because you don't want to go face them? There's a part of it where, you know, as a Christian man, we are all about forgiveness and all this stuff, and I get that. But sometimes God uses certain people in a different way where there will be no hesitation. You cross the line and you compromise.

2:14:44We allowed you to give you the greatest honor of wearing the U.S. military uniform. You're a patriot. Your job, our job is to defend this country. you do this, I'm good. It would be, I wouldn't even flinch. I appreciate you answering it. I respect it. I wouldn't even flinch. I don't, I don't have any, I don't, this is bad. And I get that you take in your position. I respect it, but. I think punishment should exist. And I'm also not against it. I'm not saying, I understand it. I think it's wrong. I think there's many things that are wrong. And I think to think that people cannot be, should not be policed, to think that everybody is good, to project our values and belief systems onto other people and think that they are like this is naive.

2:15:31It is foolish. We are not living in reality. And this is why we are dealing with many of the issues we have now. I am absolutely, I think we are very lenient on crime. And, you know, reminds me too of the Leviathan, if you've ever read it by Hobbes. It's like a political theory book. And he talks about Hobbes, you said, this was written a long time ago. Hobbes says the human being, like as human beings, if you leave us by ourselves, we're going to look out for our own self interests and we're going to hurt one another. Like we are not to be left alone. We can't, it's kind of like a Lord of the flies thing.

2:16:07We are not able to be without a system to, to stop our bad behavior that you must surrender some of your freedoms to government or to institution to police the rest of us. That's what he says and I tend to think that he is correct and if you look historically we've been trying to correct human behavior from thousands of years ago. Code of Hammurabi what is that? Eye for an eye. So even from back then thousands of years ago they were trying to figure out how do I control human behavior so that you don't hurt me. How do I punish? That's the earliest form of criminal justice if you're going to think about it.

2:16:46Yeah. You ever seen the movie Fallen with Denzel Washington? which one's that i like his movies um is on my side no scene with detective hops you have to watch this okay you have to watch this you have and elias what's his name uh his own potas that guy right there he makes the movie he makes the movie he makes the movie what a freaking scene He's on a death penalty. He's, they're about to kill him. They show the scene when he's getting killed. And the spirit of. Yes, I've seen it. Leaves him and goes into Denzel and gets passed around. It starts to get passed around. Yes. Detective Hobbs. It's a great scene.

2:17:34Last thing before we wrap up. Are you following what's going on with this big Senate race in Texas? James Tallarico and Ken Paxton? Are you following any of it? I saw a little bit. I'm typically apolitical. Just catch me up on it. What do I need to know? You don't even need to know anything about it. So these two guys are facing each other. And the guy goes missing for nine days. Okay? He was missing nine days. And this is more of a body language read. Okay? It's nothing more than political. It's just do you believe him or do you not believe him? So it's a big race, massive race. Ken Paxton, maybe not the most exciting candidate Republicans I put together.

2:18:08James Tallarico, extremely talented, polished, very charming, charismatic, right? As long as it's genuine, Patrick, I'm okay with it. He, for nine days, he says he had the flu. In one scene, he says he went to urgent care. In another scene, he says he went and met with his physician. This reporter's asking him, see if you believe him or not. Go for it. I went to the urgent care here in Dallas, and I was diagnosed with the flu. How bad was it for somebody who wants to know, is this just like in bed rest, or did you ever have to go to a doctor or a hospital? I just went to my primary care physician, but it wasn't anything worse than a nasty case of the flu.

2:18:44And last night it got so bad that I went to the urgent care here in Dallas and I was diagnosed with the flu. How bad was it for somebody who wants to know? So remember, this is the biggest race. It's the third biggest race in the midterms that's coming up. It's nine days you go missing, ten days you go missing, two, three weeks before the election date. Do you believe him? No. I mean, he just lies. He says two different stories, right? Right. So, no. Like, right off the bat, it's a, it's, he's lying. So, one saying, you know, one is I went to my primary care physician, and the other is I went to urgent care.

2:19:21One, it was like, oh, it's nothing. Right? And then the other was, oh, it was something. So, I'm getting to, it's a perpetrator. It's the guys I would have in the interview room. That's, which story is it? Really? Well, yes. I don't know him. You're asking me to do just a purely. Can you see if you can find a little bit more longer in the conversation to see if she has more content? I would have to, but what you do in a scenario like this, I would corroborate it. Show me a receipt. Show me a medical document. Show me something that says you went here. Okay. I'm going to do something. If it's okay with you, Patrick.

2:19:57Go for it, yeah. Let me hit pause. I'm going to take it to the beginning. I'm just going to do it because there's multiple things. Just hold on. So I'm going to just do, play, explain, play, explain. you were off the campaign for more than a week okay so the one thing these are just indicators it doesn't again i want to clarify like it doesn't mean somebody's absolutely lying or not these are things i notice one he's standing very stiff right he's not moving a lot he does move his arms a little bit towards the end but he's very stiff like he's not relaxed so if i have a high cognitive load if i'm about to lie i'm not going to move around a lot because i'm working so hard to pay attention and to not mess up.

2:20:36Now, you might have this with guests if you ever see them. I don't know if you've had it where sometimes people are very stiff. It's just because it's so the load so high. So typically you can't see this with people who are going to lie. Right. I'm so on. I'm so worried. I'm going to lie. I really need to be on. So he just seems very stiff. That's just body. Just just indicators. Your campaign said you had the flu. What happened? Yeah, smiling. Doesn't mean anything uh it's bad it means something and it doesn't mean something he's smiling a lot it just seems like a really odd interview to smile at unless this guy always smiles in every interview he does in the past that's what i would look at but why is he smiling so much now smiling can also be a sign of i'm super super nervous and a lot of people when they are very very nervous patrick they smile a lot or they laugh at inappropriate times but that can also be a red flag here right why are you so nervous why are you smiling so much it's a stress reliever so you ever see people who laugh at inappropriate times and you're like don't laugh that's not funny they're relieving the stress in their mouth interesting yes so that's just one other thing i'm catching let me see what else yeah i got the flu um and i'm feeling much better um and i'm glad i had a chance to recover you know if you don't so yeah i got the flu i'm feeling much better and i'm glad So he's taking it a different direction.

2:21:54It's like, I just had the flu, smiling the whole time. He makes good eye contact. He's holding good eye contact. To recover, you know, if you don't take the opportunity to get well, sometimes you can get even sicker. And so I'm glad we made the decision to just take the week and get better. I'm glad we made the decision. Who's we? You know what this reminds me of? Remember Anthony Weiner years and years ago when he sent an appropriate picture? And then they were interviewing him and he's saying, we are doing this, we are doing that, we are doing this. Who's we? It's you. So who's we? Because he says we a couple of times.

2:22:27We did this and we did that and I'm glad we decided this. Who's we? You decided. So when you bring we in, it's a great way to be like, it's not just me, it's got all my people back here. So that's a bit of a red flag. Who's we? You don't need we if you're typically being transparent, telling the truth. And now I'm glad to be back on the trail. You've talked about how you're a diabetic. and that has, when diabetics get the flu, it could get really bad. How bad was it for somebody who wants to know? Is this just like in bed rest or did you ever have to go to a doctor or a hospital? I just went to my primary care physician.

2:23:03So we know he's saying a different story. Urgent care and here is his primary care physician. Not the same thing. So you've got two completely different stories, which liars, I'm not saying he's lying, but typically they change their story. People have a hard time remembering their lies, especially when they're stressed. And he might be trying to change the story and make it seem something like it's not. You know, a nasty case of the flu. And so I was in bed and, you know, drinking lots of liquids. Unfortunately, the campaign made me work from home. The campaign made me work from home. So the we is the campaign.

2:23:35It's me and my campaign. So let me ask you another one. Those are the things I catch. So, okay, here's another one. is this is a call that they made to a place, because they're saying that he went to a mental institution. Yes, I heard that. Because it was a threat, right? This is the call made to a Linder Center of Hope. A guy just calls and says, what happened to James Tallarico? I want you to assess the lady's voice, if she's lying or if she's telling the truth. Sure. Go for it. Okay, so nothing for James Tallarico?

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2:26:02These deals won't last. Go to Wayfair.com today. Wayfair, every style, every home When it comes to my policy Farmers gives it to me straight So there's no surprises It's your coverage You should never be confused You hear that? An insurance provider with a conscience We're a choir But yes, we have that too Straightforward coverage you can literally understand That's what you get when You have Farmers Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum Learn more at Farmers.com Underwritten by farmer's truck or fire insurance exchanges or affiliate. Products not available in every state.

2:26:45Yes, it looks, well, this is what it's today. It looks like she was discharged this evening. That's why I don't have it. Oh, he was discharged then? Mm-hmm. Okay. This is the Hope Linder. So he should be? Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'll make sure I have the right. This is Hope Linder. Yes, uh-huh. Okay. And you're in Hamilton, Ohio? No, we're not in Hamilton. Oh. We're in Mason. Okay. So that's why he's on the system. He's in recent. Can you pause for a second for me? All right. Just, I want to do it in bits. So a couple of things. So we have a long pause before she answers. Ten seconds. Because she's trying to figure out, what do I say?

2:27:26She doesn't know what to say. She's confused. She's just like, uh, what do I say? Nobody briefed her to be like, don't say anything. Got it. So to me, I hear that. This woman's like, am I allowed to say something? Should I say something? Is it a family member? This lady doesn't know. This poor lady's in over her head. She probably is not supposed to say anything. She's probably not. And by the way, they commented afterwards, and they said Linder Healing Center has refuted this. They have made a statement that Tallarico has never received treatment at the Linder Healing Center, which is what they're supposed to say.

2:27:58They would never. Are they saying we did not say that? Are they saying we never treated him? Let me read it to you one more time. So they said... If they're saying we never treated him, that's different than we did not... We never received treatment. Okay, they have made a statement that James Tallarico has never received treatment at Linder Healing Center. Okay, so they're saying we never treated him. Yes. So then I would suspect they're not going to lie. I would think that they wouldn't lie because I'm not going to lie. That's my institution. I don't think I would lie and say something like that.

2:28:35That's a pretty brazen thing to lie, to say this person never came. That's just the only thing where I would pause there. Right, and this is their tweet. And on the bottom, Viva Frye, who's a lawyer, we've had him on multiple times, he said, I practiced law long enough to understand how answers can be true and still misleading. The statement says, Tallarico has never received treatment from Linder Center of Hope. You could question the use of the term treatment. Was he a patient they never treated, or did he somehow, how some other entity or psychiatrist administered the treatment, which brings us to the most likely distinction.

2:29:07If the statement is true yet misleading, other distinct entities operate within the LENDOR hearing center of hope, such as LENDOR Center of Hope Professional Associates. From what I understand, this is a private practice from operating within LENDOR. Okay, so that's what position is. So it's possible that they're using language to get out of it, and it's a separate entity, and they're trying to do that because they can't say anything. It's a, what is it, HIPAA violation. Right, for sure it is, yes. With her, at one point when she's also answering him in that previous thing, she's like, yes, or a question.

2:29:40So he left and she's like, mm-hmm. Like she doesn't, she's not giving, she's trying, she doesn't know what to say. Right, right. She's not, you could see her, she's confused as to what to say and she understands, should I be saying this? Should I not be saying this? So I don't think the woman's lying. Again, I don't know. but I can understand that they're using language maybe to possibly hide from it but I think to me the biggest red flag honestly is he's giving you two completely different interviews Patrick he's saying two completely different things that to me is like which is it and you know and I don't know this man but you're also running for Congress should you not when you're in those positions you're responsible for the things you say yeah it's is it Congress or Senate by the way it's one or the two?

2:30:26Senate. Okay. Senate. Yeah. You know, you should be very. The biggest thing is that a lot of people are asking about is maybe if you did this in July, maybe if you did this in June, but you're doing it in October, 10 days in October, right before it. And by the way, he's still, the odds are still on his favor of winning. So it's not like it's changed anything with Cal Shea and where he's going to be at with it. They're still saying this guy's going to be winning the Senate race in Texas. Just a big race. Well, before we, were you going to say something? I just think it's really important. And again, I don't know this.

2:31:00I'm apolitical, but I really think it's important for people. People tend to vote emotionally rather than really looking at things and assessing things. So if you have indicators that somebody's, I think somebody is saying they can't do, they're not accurate. I would just ask people to really be thoughtful and assess a human being on what they're showing you rather than what you are projecting onto them and what you want to believe. But what we do is like we put blinders on. It's like, and the thing is, even if you had something, even if you had some proof, Patrick, that this was true, that he lied, the people that want to vote for him will still vote for him.

2:31:36They're committed. It's not going to make a difference. No, it's like once I've decided, it doesn't matter. it's um i hear what i want to hear even if you tell me something rational and logical here i don't hear you i've made my decision so it's it's it's weird it's like the way we are as human beings highly emotional and we don't allow new information and even uh it our objectivity is is is completely just taken we think we're objective and we're not i hear what i want to hear what suits me and what suits the decision that I want to make. Yeah. I mean, listen, it's one of the biggest races. We'll find out on November 3rd what happens.

2:32:17But before we wrap up, obviously, I really enjoy talking to you. And I told you this off camera. You know, you've done multiple interviews with some of the best interviewers out there and you still come up with new content, which is great. That just says you have a lot of experience. Can you share with us the book Becoming Bulletproof? It's done very, very well. protect yourself, read people, influence situations, and live fearlessly. What can somebody find in this book? So I actually wrote this book. I wrote it a couple of years ago, and it's still going. It's like published internationally, so I'm very humbled by it.

2:32:50But it's basically, I took, I broke it up to three parts. First part is a mental armor, resilience, protection. And second part is reading body language, a lot of what we just did, reading body language, verbal language, and also how to know if somebody is telling you the truth or lying. Side note, it is easier to tell if somebody is telling you the truth rather than if they're lying. Truthful indicators are easier than lying indicators. So I cover all that in the book. Part three is influence, how to influence people using things like autonomy, giving people a choice. So like you brought up COVID earlier, nobody likes to be told what to do.

2:33:28You tell people what to do, you get something called reactance. Even if you're right, even if you've got the data, don't tell me what to do. What people respond well to is give me a choice. Would you like to do this? Would you like to do this? I feel like I'm still in control. So things like that, mirroring, proximity, influence technique. So I took it and it's really good for the average person, especially in business, for you to understand the environment around you, have your situational awareness. And I took strategies and things that I was allowed to share publicly from the U.S. Secret Service.

2:33:58I actually read the book. They had to approve it. So I took a lot of the stuff that I learned as a polygrapher, as an interviewer, as a interrogator, assessing human behavior. I put all that in there. And then the first part, we did a whole thing on protection. Like I shared things that we did to protect the people we protected physically, mentally, emotionally. Like, you know how you brought up earlier the whole victim thing? You don't want to be a victim. You're going to go nowhere in life being a victim. So a lot of the stuff I share with mental armor and all that, it teaches you how not to be a victim.

2:34:27So you always hear people say empathy. Empathy is great. No, empathy is not great when if you let everything that happens in the world penetrate you, touch you, it's not good. Like you have to be a gatekeeper of who's around you, of what you let in. So I talk about mental armor and the things that I learned being around some really like exceptional human beings. Like they take in, I don't want to say they take the average person either. Because I asked once a recruiter once and I said, how do you take a recruiter, make him this elite warrior? How do you take the average person, excuse me, and make them an elite warrior?

2:35:00And the recruiter said to me, I want to forget, the average person doesn't apply for this job. I love that. So right then and there, that self-selection process, you self-select yourself. You self-select yourself out of it. So you're already getting a certain caliber of people who are like, you know what? I believe I can do this. I love that. So we're going to put the link below, folks. go place the order for Becoming Bullet Proof. Thank you, Patrick. Evie, really enjoyed the conversation with you. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Of course.

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