This Pastor Wants ONLY Christians in Power | PBD Podcast #846

0:00This is the last shining beacon, the city on a hill of freedom. If we lose America, where are we going to go? Okay, so you said you want power. What do you want to do with that power? We do not have to wait for the next George Whitefield or Jonathan Edwards to change before we're allowed to have common sense policy. How do you get that level of power? What I can do is I can influence people. And one of them, one day, by the grace of God, might be president. you're trying to use that same strategy of a minority idea to get to majority of Americans? You want to talk about who has an uncontested victory?

0:35It's the ideology of liberalism. My memory goes back more than just 15 minutes ago. I remember 2020 through 2024. Those were dark times. Do not worry. You've also made some comments about interracial marriage. Interracial marriage. Tell me about that. Every single relational arrangement you could possibly even conceive of is represented in media, except for the one that produces white kids. I think they want less white people. Is there anybody you wouldn't accept to come to your church? Mainly black people. I'm just kidding. What's your position on Catholicism? I know my Catholic listeners will hear this.

1:13They'll be like, oh, that's so insufferable. And you're being so gay. Catholics say you stop being gay. Maybe that's a compliment from them. God in heaven wrote a book, and that book is true whether Joel Webin was ever born or not.

1:38Divorce is a wealth killer and that's not even the topic of discussion today. We're not even talking about that but I like anybody that has four plus kids. You got five with a sixth on the way, four girls, one boy and you're going to find out what the sixth is. God bless you guys and your family. Joel, I asked some friends yesterday who are pastors. I said, what do you think about Joel? Let me tell you. No, no, it's like, let me tell you. Good communicator, but some of the stuff he says is divisive. What do you think about Joel? I actually like some of the stuff he talks about. Really? Yes. I think we need to talk about some of these topics.

2:11I said, great. He's going to be on the podcast. Fantastic. So, Joel, for the audience that doesn't know you, you know, why don't you share a little bit about your background as well as what your core beliefs are that gets you in trouble sometimes? Sure. Yeah. Well, first, thanks for having me. Really appreciate it. Yeah. So I just turned 40 years old and I feel it in my bones. Do you really? I feel like I'm getting older. Yeah. So I've actually made some changes. By God's grace, in the last few months, I lost 30 pounds. Really? So in some ways I feel better because I'm more disciplined, but I just recognize none of it comes.

2:48It's no longer the default setting. I got to work. So that's all right. But so I'm married. My wife, Megan, is other than Jesus Christ. She's the greatest blessing that I've received in this life. She's given to me five kids and a six is in the oven, still baking. And so we're excited about that. I was adopted as a baby. I never met my biological parents. so I you know my my biological father all I know about him is you know it was a hit and run so I I come from uh mom or dad not met mom or dad no haven't met either of them I think I think the birth mom I mean she obviously she didn't abort me she she wanted me to live she wanted Christians to adopt me I'm super grateful for that so I think she's a good woman I think in her mind it was probably just not wanting to interfere, not wanting to confuse me.

3:40And I kind of appreciate that because I don't want two families. I have a mom and dad. I've known them my whole life. They're the ones that raised me. They're the ones that have loved me. So I'm kind of grateful for her choice to obviously love me enough to give me up, to ensure that good family would adopt me, but then also back away. I bet that was probably hard for her. And so I'm grateful for that. But my dad, he was a pastor my whole life, so raised as a PK, pastor's kid, in the charismatic church. So my dad, he was never like crazy charismatic. Think of like Benny Hinn, knocking people with your jacket and they're falling over.

4:21He wasn't that gifted. Yeah, he didn't have that anointing. That's a special gift. That's a special anointing. He never had. But anyways, he was, I would say, a reasonable, charismatic, loved the Bible, taught me the Bible, great father. My mom and dad are actually members of my church. Every Sunday evening, we do game night. They come over, read to the grandkids, and then me and my wife, and then we stay up and play board games. So really close to my family, grateful for that. Raised charismatic, shifted my theology in college, became more reformed, Protestant, began to be turned on by guys like Martin Luther, John Calvin, Jonathan Edwards, in that vein.

5:04And so theological transitions happened in my 20s and continue to happen, but a lot of them in my 20s. But then cultural and political transitions happened in my 30s, where I began to just look at our country and realize it's never anything less than the Lord Jesus Christ, Reformation. We need revival. It's revival or bust. We need hearts and minds changed by the power of the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the gospel, the great commission to go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It's preaching Christ, him crucified, his life, death, resurrection.

5:47It's nothing less than that. And that's one of the biggest, you asked me, like the controversies, one of the biggest criticisms I get is you've moved on from the gospel. It's not less than the gospel, but this is what I realized in my 30s, is I realized you don't have to have...God may do it, and I pray that He does. You have to wear different hats. You have to think in categories. So as a father, as a husband, as a pastor, I'm doing the work of an evangelist. I'm seeking to make disciples. I'm preaching word and administering sacrament on the Lord's Day. That's what I do in that realm as a pastor in the church.

6:23But here's the deal. I hope that God sends revival. I hope that 50 % of the population of America plus one becomes regenerate and born again by the Spirit. But the mentality that so many Christians, well-meaning Christians, have that that is an absolute prerequisite in order to have a country, a functioning country, I think that premise is wrong. Japan is not 50 % plus one regenerate Christians, and yet they still have some semblance of order. They still, they have a country. So there are actually policies that can be implemented. And the thing that honestly convinced me is looking at the enemy's playbook.

7:03So when I think of LGBT, LMNOP, mafia, you know, the rainbow jihad, when I look at them and their tactics, they took, it's not like they started with 75 % of the population. They started with 3 % of the population and in 40 years with a well-organized minority were able to replace the American flag with a rainbow. Highly successful. Highly successful with a minority. What that proves, what Democrats have proved time and time and time again, is that you don't actually have to have a majority in order to implement ideas. Okay. So go a little bit deeper there. So because of that, you're thinking, you're trying to use that same strategy of a minority idea to get to majority of Americans?

7:49Yeah. I want power. Oh, that's terrible. Power is not a vice. Neither is it a virtue. Power is a tool. You want power? Yeah. A hammer can build a house or it can crush a man's skull. Okay. Power is not inherently evil or righteous. Sure. It's a tool. It depends who wields it. Is it for the glory of God and the good of his people? Or is it with evil, sinister intentions? I, and when I say I, more broadly, not just me, but I want Christians who love the Lord Jesus Christ to have power. And I think Christians have opted out of politics. They've opted out of culture. They've opted out of wealth. They've opted out of business.

8:26They've opted out of all these realms of power because they've been convinced that power is icky. And so in order to be spiritually pure and to have a clear conscience before the Lord, not objectively, but subjectively, because they've been deceived, they actually think that they're doing a service to God by opting away from the halls of power. Part of this is their eschatology, right? That's a doctrine of the end times because of dispensationalism, premillennial dispensationalism. If Jesus is coming back next Thursday, then what's the point in running for office? What's the point in storing up generational wealth?

9:04But the Bible teaches a good man leaves an inheritance not only for his kids, but his grandkids. So I think, all that back to what I was saying just a moment ago, I think that, yes, we want the majority of the population to be genuinely Christians, because I don't just want a temporal blessing for my fellow Americans, but I want their eternal blessing. I don't want them just to have 80 years of prosperity and peace and then go to hell. So it's never less than the gospel, but it must be more than just the gospel, and it's not all intertwined. We have to think in categories. So the church, as a private Christian man, sharing the gospel with my neighbor, as a pastor, preaching the gospel from the pulpit.

9:49But I'm not only a pastor. I'm never less, but I'm not only a pastor. So I'm also a citizen of the United States with a political obligation, And in that realm, I'm still a Christian. That follows me wherever I am. But a Christian in politics is different than a Christian in the pulpit. And so when I'm thinking politically, when I'm thinking culturally, nationally, I want to fully recognize and convince other Christians that we do not have to wait. Maybe God sends revival, but we do not have to wait for the next George Whitefield or Jonathan Edwards to change half of the country's hearts and minds before we're allowed to have common sense policy.

10:29We don't have to have the whole country born again in order to say, hey, you know what? We probably shouldn't import half of Haiti. That's just like, Japan is not Christian, but they know not to do that. Japan can just think the light of nature. God has spoken, he's written two books. We have revealed, God's revealed will in scripture, special revelation. But then we also have the light of nature. We have general or natural revelation. And that's why non-Christian people, although at the level of the heart, there's a hostility towards God. Romans 8 says that. But outwardly, in terms of their actions, behaviors, and even speech, a non-Christian can innovate.

11:18They can find a cure for cancer. They can build a suspension bridge. They can do incredible things because they're made in the image of God. So Japan, not being Christian, can still somehow have a functional country with common sense because they're rational beings, human beings made in the image of God. And so I want Christians in America to recognize, look, it's both and. It's not either or, it's both and. As Christians in the church, in that category, preach the gospel, do the work of an evangelist, make disciples. But also as still Christians, but Christians as citizens of these United States, let's think strategically.

11:55Let's be political. We don't have to wait on a move of the spirit in order to pass common sense legislation. Okay, so you said you want to. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+.

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14:16Right now, get 70 % off your new system with professional monitoring at simplisafe.com slash Spotify. 30 seconds response time requires monitoring plan with outdoor protection starting at$49.99 a month. Visit simplisafe.com slash licenses for alarm license information. On power, what do you want to do with that power? How do you want to use that power? I want Christian laws. Such as? Well, I mean, I have my wish list. Tell us. My top tier. I think there should be blasphemy laws. So free speech. I think that free speech is wonderful and terrible at the same time, both. Absolute free speech, I don't believe, was the real intention of the founders.

14:57If we're going to get back to the Constitution as a set document, you have to get back to authorial intent. And even looking at the First Amendment, you have to read it in the context of those who wrote it, the way that they perceived what they were writing at the time that it was written, the idea of absolute free speech, that you can blaspheme the Lord Jesus Christ publicly. Is your main concern blasphemy of Lord Jesus Christ? Yes. So you're okay if I say the N-word? The N-word should not have laws against it. So meaning it's okay to say that? Me personally, I don't use that word. No, no, I know you don't, but you don't have a...

15:35So the specific part about blasphemy to you is if I say, God, you have a problem with that. If I say anything about, okay. All right. Well, if I can explain that real quick, here's a simple explanation. There should be a distinction, because the Bible makes a distinction, between sins and crimes. So you get plastered drunk in your home, and at 3 a.m., you're dancing in your living room, listening to some degenerate rap naked. That's a sin. It's a pretty good weekend for some people. Maybe, maybe. But that's a sin. It's not a crime. So I don't want a police state. So I don't want coveting, right?

16:15It's the 10th commandment. Thou shalt not covet. That's a sin. But even the Old Testament, Old Covenant Israel, it was a sin. It was never a crime. When is coveting punished by the state? Well, it's actually a simple answer. Coveting shifts from the realm of mere sin into the realm of being both sin and crime the moment that coveting overflows into theft. I covet, and therefore I'm acting upon it and stealing. Or I covet, you have something I want, and I'm now going to act on it with murder, and I'm going to kill you and take it. Well, now it's a crime. So same kind of thing. So idolatry, the first commandment, have no other gods before me.

16:54I don't want a police state that's going into people's private homes and rounding them up for not being Christians, whether it be Muslims or Jews or whatever. At the same time, outside of Houston, in my home state, there is a 90-foot tall abomination, a Hindu statue. I think that that should actually be a crime. It should not be allowed in America. Why? Because we love America, and we want it to be blessed, and God does not bless public, overt displays of idolatry. This guy right here? Yeah, that's it. And that's right outside of Houston? Yes, sir. Okay, so what would you want to see the punishment of blasphemy be if you had the power?

17:40Yeah, so biblically, this is really important for people to understand because a lot of your Reddit atheist is going to be like, well, the Bible says, and they don't understand the Bible. They don't understand the Bible. So first, biblical law in the Old Testament breaks up into three categories. There's the moral law, which is binding and immutable. Immutable means unchanging, right? So it was wrong to murder in the Old Testament. it's still wrong to murder today. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Behold, I'm the Lord, I changeth not, so that you, the sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

18:12So moral law of God, immutable. Then the second category, there are ceremonial laws, hand washings, animal sacrifice, robes and tassels in the temple, these kinds of things, ceremonial, cleanliness. This is a type in shadow that was meant to point forward as a precursor, a symbol to the true substance, which is fulfilled in Christ, right? So all these things about washings and the lamb that is slain, the burnt bull offerings, all this is pointing towards Jesus. Because Jesus has come, we no longer do these things. And it's not because we're lax, it's because we're no longer supposed to do these things.

18:52They pointed towards Christ. So ceremonial law in the Old Testament, I don't want to bring that back. I think that it would be wrong, actually immoral, to bring it back because it would actually make a statement that we view the perfect sacrifice of Christ as insufficient, right? He's the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, slain once for the world, and God the Father saw that and said, I am satisfied. It's enough. So ceremonial law, that's done. Moral law, that's immutable, unchanging. It's still in play. Last one is civil law, right? You got to have a parapet, right, a border around the roof of your house in Israel.

19:26Why? Well, it's contextual. They don't have HVAC, right? Summer months, it's hot, they're sleeping on the roof outside. Well, we don't do that. So I don't think that we should have police, you know, going and fining people for not having a border around the roof of their house. But here's the deal. When it comes to the civil laws, those are particular to Israel, so they're not, they shouldn't be picked up and dropped wholesale on America in the year of our Lord 2026, one-to-one ratio. But what's the general equity, right? You're reading Aesop's fables, and what's the moral of the story, right?

19:57And you're teaching that to your kids. There's an undergirding moral principle that's transcendent. Well, what's the moral of the principle of a board around your roof? The preservation and the dignity of human life, okay? So we don't do the parapet around the roof, but we have speed limits because we have motorized vehicles. We have seatbelts. I think that's an appropriate application, right? So three different branches of law, moral, that's eternal, immutable, binding forever. Then you have civil. The civil, you have to do not a one-step, but a two-step. The civil, you got to say, well, what's the general equity, the overarching moral principle within this civil code, and find that, and then apply it with prudence and wisdom to your context, your culture today, and then the ceremonial has all been fulfilled in Christ.

20:48So what do I think the appropriate punishment should be? All that being said about the Old Testament, when you look at not just the laws in the Old Testament, but the penalties, I believe that the only sin, which is also a crime, sin and crime, that must be, that mandates capital punishment, the death penalty, is murder. The Noahic Covenant, Genesis chapter 9, if you take a man's life, you forfeit your own. That one mandates. God says you must put that man to death who commits murder. There's a ton of other ones, like breaking the Sabbath. And you'll see the penalty listed is capital punishment, but not mandated.

21:28So I see it as all these other crimes, lower crimes than murder, listed in the Old Testament that mention capital punishment. Some of them do, some of them don't. But mention capital punishment as a penalty. I see that as not mandated, but permissible as a it's the highest penalty that could be inflicted. So like in the state of Texas, you'll see signs. Don't mess with Texas, which, by the way, Texas has fallen. You can absolutely mess with Texas, but don't mess with Texas. If you litter, it can be punished up to whatever, you know, two years in jail or a five thousand. I don't know anybody doing hard time for throwing a Coke bottle out the window.

22:06I don't I don't have any friends, never known anyone in my entire life, 40 years of living who currently right now is in prison. for throwing an empty bag of Cheetos out the car, right? So it's a maximum penalty. It could be legally implemented, but it's a maximum. It's not that it must be. So all that back to blasphemy. Somebody is in a movie theater and says, Jesus, you know, like some scary part of the movie, and they take the Lord's name in vain. I believe that's a sin. I don't think that that should be punished. The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, having some guy paint himself with fake blood, pretending to hang on a cross, while women dressed as nuns are gyrating in front of him on the street in front of children.

22:51Yeah, you go to jail. Absolutely. Jail is what the punishment is. I think that that should be either a steep fine or jail. So I'd like to go through the next few fairly quickly if you're able to. So first one, blasphemy laws. Got it. Using Lord's name in vain. Beautiful. The way you broke it, moral law, ceremonial law, civil law. So if you had power, what else would you want to do with it?

23:17So there's Ten Commandments. That's broken up into two categories, first and second table of the law. The first four of the Ten Commandments deals with our obligation to the Lord. Jesus boils this down as summary law, as the first and greatest commandment, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind. Well, how do we love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, and mind? It's strength, four ways. Have no other gods before me. Do not make any graven images. Don't take the Lord's name in vain. And remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. So in that regard, with that first one, have no other gods before me.

23:50Obviously, John Calvin said that the heart is an idol-making factory. At the level of the heart, inward sin, we are constantly producing idols that we trust and treasure more than Christ all the time. Myself, most certainly included. there are constantly moments where instead of trusting in Christ, I'm hoping and banking on something else. And I have to repent of that. Lord, the Holy Spirit convicts me. I'm sorry, Lord. Help me to trust in Christ and him alone and not just in a retirement account or whatever it is, right? So that happens all the time. That's sin, but that's not a crime. One of the ways to determine the distinction between sins and crimes is private versus public.

24:32So you're drunk at home, okay? That's one thing. You're drunk behind the wheel of a car. That's another, right? You say Jesus Christ in vain at home. That's one thing. Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence in a parade publicly. That's another, right? So the Sabbath, somebody at home is sweeping the floor. I'm not going to get autistic, right? I'm not going to, well, actually, you should go to jail. People think I'm crazy. I'm extreme. I'm actually, I think, a reasonable moderate is how I would describe myself. So no, that person should not be penalized. It's not a crime. But the fact that every business in America, in the public square, is open on Sunday, that actually incentivizes the citizens of our country to forego church, mandated church attendance, no.

25:25But economically setting the conditions that are more conducive to church attendance, yes. I think that that would be positive. So that's in the first category, our obligation to the Lord, the first four commandments. That's what I would do. And then graven images like the Hindu statue, things like that. And then the second table of law, love your neighbor as yourself. That's commandments 5 through 10. Honor thy father and mother. Do not murder. Do not commit adultery. So adultery. I'll use that one. I think that adultery is not only a sin. I think it should be a crime. And I don't know if you know this about me, but one of the things that always comes up online, so everybody knows I have no problem saying it.

26:01It's public information at this point. But when I was first trying to plant a church in California, I was 23 years old, retarded, absolutely stupid, and had no business trying to plant a church. I was a LARPing, wannabe church planter. The reality is at that time, I was leading a glorified Bible study for about 25, 30 people, all of them single, all of them in their 20s. and I was single in my 20s on Sunday evenings. Pretty much everybody went to an established church in the morning and then came to us as like a supplemental singles ministry. I dated a girl. I slept with that girl. That's sin, but it wasn't adultery.

26:49And I'm not saying that to make light. I'm saying it to make a point. That sin is a serious sin. It nailed Jesus to the cross. There's only two ways to deal with that sin. me in hell forever under the wrath of God, and it would be just, or Jesus taking the wrath of God, drinking the cup, the full cup, as my substitute in my place for that sin. So I'm not making light of that sin. I'm simply saying that it is still objectively true. There's a distinction between fornication, that would be the biblical label for sex outside of marriage, versus adultery. In these United States, right, I'm not like, it's not like I'm saying we got to get back to the 400s.

27:27You know, we got to get back to Constantine. I like Constantine, but I'm not even saying that. I'm saying, no, this is not just true as it pertains to Christian history. It's true as it pertains to American history. There were penalties for adultery. No-fault divorce and the fact that you can cheat on your spouse. And having cheated on your spouse, you can then divorce the spouse. The cheater can then divorce their spouse and in a court of law, get half of the stuff or even the majority, that is not just sinful. I think it's criminal. You commit adultery. I'm not saying you should be put to death.

28:05The Bible lists that as a, again, maximum penalty. I don't think the Bible says it must be applied. But if someone commits adultery, I would say that that is actually not only a sin, but a crime. And what it does, according to the words of Christ, is it doesn't mandate that the offended party has to divorce, but they can divorce if they choose to. Or they can also try to work it out by the power of God and the grace of the gospel. But they can divorce. They can do so with a clear conscience before the Lord. It's not sin. And legally, the court should say, you're choosing to press charges. You're choosing to divorce.

28:40Your spouse committed adultery. It's been proven, right? Not just I have a feeling, but proven. It's not just the wife goes to sleep. I dreamed that you cheated on me. Now, we don't do that. This was proven in a court of law, two or three witnesses. Okay, you can divorce because that's not no fault. There's a fault, and you get everything. That dude or that chick, destitute. You get the kids. You get the house. What would that do, right? So I'm always thinking of not just what's right in the sight of God, but also when God says something is moral or right, it's not arbitrary. It's not capricious.

29:14The right thing is designated as right by the Lord because it's also the good thing that brings about the most blessing. What would it do for our country to get rid of no-fault divorce and to actually have—you get more of what you incentivize, you get less of what you criminalize, right? What would it do for the country to say, we're going to incentivize marital faithfulness and penalize adultery? How many kids would not grow up in broken homes? How would that not be good? That's not a crazy position.

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31:58I don't think it's a crazy position. So, okay, I'm tracking with everything you're saying so far. You've also made some comments about, if I were to say the ones that got you in trouble the most, trying to see which one it was, something about... Interracial marriage. Interracial marriage. Tell me about that. Tell me why your challenge is with interracial marriage. Yeah, so this is what happened. This is the lore, the story. There's a woman, right? That's how every story starts. There's a woman. That's how the book of Genesis starts. There was a woman. Anyways, the point is, there's a woman who kind of incessantly follows me online.

32:38She's got like 80 ,000 followers, something like that. So it's not just like somebody with 47 followers or whatever. And she kind of, I would say, you know, a couple times a week. Lately, I think she's backed off, and I praise God for that. I hope I'm not stirring it up again. God bless her. I don't have ill will towards her. I don't hate her or anything like that. I think she's a Christian. I think she's confused about some things. But anyways, so she's just kind of pestering me. Anything I say, she's retweeting it and saying, Joel's terrible and this is bad for this reason or whatever. So there's another guy.

33:14He posts, under Christian nationalism, this is the post, interracial marriage will be punishable by death. I do not post that. I don't believe that. Some other guy posts that. Has nothing to do with me. I've never spoken to this guy. I don't know this guy. I'm not going to name him because I don't want to do the performative denouncements. I don't think that's helpful. But he posts this, and then somebody retweets him, a pastor, and says, Elon Musk, can you make an exception on this one post and show us who likes it? Because it's Twitter, after all, so that post gets thousands of likes. Thousands of people come out and like this provocative, extreme post.

33:54And so this pastor, another guy, he says, Elon, show us who liked this post. And then this woman, back to her, she comments and says, well, for sure, Joel Webbin. And I just, you know, I probably let her get the better of me. I probably should have just left it alone. But in a moment of weakness, despite my better judgment, I'm like, that's it. This woman's been pestering me for about two years at that point. And so I come out and I say, nope, just one word, nope. I didn't like it. I don't agree with that. And then so then she responds and says, tell us right now, are you for, false dichotomy in my opinion, and it's a trap, and I fell for it, and that's on me.

34:35But she says, are you for or against? Only two options. For, that is encouraging, promoting, that's how I read that, or against, right, discouraging, interracial marriage. And so I give a long write-up. Now, I started pretty snarky. And so a lot of people didn't even get past my first sentence. Again, that's on me. I started by saying, this is a perfect example of why the average woman on social media is retarded. I think that's how I started. Now, I actually stand by that, but I don't think I should have written it. And just to clarify that, I don't believe the average woman is retarded. The average woman on social media.

35:13And I'm not talking about your grandma with 60 followers on Facebook who's just keeping up with pictures of the grandkids. When I say on social media, what I meant by that, I could have done a better job or just left it out, clarifying. But I mean like the woman who's very clearly trying to be a social media influencer. I think the average woman who's trying to be an influencer online is retarded. All of them? No. The average one? Yeah, I stand by that statement. So that's how I started. Not the best start because that just immediately turned people, soured them against me. And I did that. That's me.

35:46But then I go on and actually very clearly and reasonably articulate my position, and I say this verbatim. I said, interracial marriage, comma, although biblically permissible. That means it's not a crime, and not only is it not a crime, certainly not a crime punishable by death, it's also not a sin. Biblically speaking, church history for 2 ,000 years and the Scripture itself, most importantly, has made it clear that interracial marriage is not a crime, certainly not a capital crime, and it's not even a sin. So interracial marriage, although biblically permissible, ordinarily, and this is what I say, ordinarily goes against God's normative, regular, I use those kind of words, plan, design for nations, peoples, and cultures.

36:41In other words, I actually like the book of Revelation that says that the final state of the redeemed in heaven will be every tribe, tongue, and nation. Heaven will be diverse. I think that's good, right? Because if I live next to a bunch of black people in heaven, well, the black people in heaven won't be trying to steal my kids' bikes, right? These are redeemed black people. It's heaven. There is no more sin. It's great. It's great. I look forward to meeting my brothers and sisters from the Sudan or from Ghana or in heaven, in heaven. However, not on earth. Well, some of them, sure, I wouldn't mind meeting them in their country, but I don't want them all to come and live here.

37:23I believe. So what do you do with that that that's already happened? Yeah, it's already happened. So the challenge then becomes the founding fathers created it in a way where that ended up happening whether they pictured that happening or not, they allowed certain people to win elections who maybe allowed for immigration to open up a little bit. So now we're here. Your ideas of what you want to do, how do you do that when you're already here? Do you go find a small town and live in and grow it, you know, and build it up where it's the way you want it to be? Do you go live in the boonies a little bit away from everybody to have a little bit of privacy and then build it up and build that town around you where you start off?

38:07Because I know, like, I remember Frisco used to be a smaller town, less than 5 ,000 people. And I think in Texas you need 5 ,000 to be able to make it official to be a city. And I think 94, I don't know what the year is, but Frisco becomes a city. And then today there are a quarter of a million people living there, right? So do you go build your own Frisco and gradually build it up? If you do that and you work hard and you're successful and God blesses your efforts, then the moment you begin to succeed, then everybody will move there. And it's the same problem all over again. So that's what you want to do or no?

38:38What I'm saying, you move to the boonies or you start your own town. If you're successful, they eventually come. Sauron, Sauron, he will always eventually come for the Shire. There won't be a shire. So, no, and that's all the way back to my first point in today's episode is, bless for me, no power. It has to be real, objective, political power. It's not enough to just say, well, my town's been taken over by Haitians or whatever, and so I guess now we'll move to, eventually there's nowhere else to move. It's America or bust. This is the last, this is the shining beacon, the city on a hill of freedom.

39:19If we lose America, where are we going to go? Everybody, a lot of people agree with you there. That's not the question. The question is your ideas of what you believe. Okay, so if I come to your church this Sunday, how many people will be in church? Like how big is my church? Attendance, yeah. Yeah, like 200 to 250. Okay, so let's just say I come to your church this Sunday. What will I see there? Will it be 100 % Caucasian? Would it be, okay. But if it was, praise God. No, no, there's nothing wrong with it. I don't really. But no, it's not. It's not, okay. So would the idea for you be long-term to impose, to have power?

40:04So the only way you can really have, and when I talk to the president, and I told him, who has more power? Billionaires, you know, these guys that do this. Is it the Congress? Is it Supreme Court? Is it president? He says, nobody has more power than president. Nobody. So is that eventually that for you to become a president, have power so you can change laws? I don't think I would ever. Like, here's the deal, man. People are people. The most deceitful person in your life is you. So don't ever believe your own press. you know this I'm never going to be I wouldn't win if I won 1 % of the vote that would be extraordinary I'm not going to win maybe the Overton window continues to shift and things change I'm not going to count it out but you've got to be realistic that's a warp I'm not running for president How do you get that power done?

41:00What I can do is I can influence people I'm not going to be president It's not that I would never run. If I thought there was a chance, maybe I would. So I'm not saying I don't want to be president, but I'm just a realist. But what I can do, what I can do is by the power of God, is I can use whatever influence I have to continue to influence young men. And one of them, one day, by the grace of God, might be president. So power is, there's political power, there's monetary power, there's influential power. And so I'm trying to, in whatever ways the Lord has gifted me, steward those gifts faithfully, faithful stewardship, to influence as many people as I can in what I believe the Bible says is the right direction.

41:51Joe, who do you view as the enemy? Who's the enemy? Or who are the enemy? There are a lot of enemies. Right, I want to hear that. So it's not as simple as it. So Israel is a huge problem. But here's the deal. Some of these guys, all they can talk about is Israel. I talk about Israel a lot. But when Charlie Kirk was murdered, we can't forget. It was a bunch of white people. And they weren't all Jews. I'm looking at the TikTok videos. I'm looking at the physiognomy. I'm looking at the noses, the ear and the eye line. They're not all Jews. Let's just be honest. There's a bunch of white people. White is the driven snow.

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43:36The left. Liberals. White, black, brown, liberals. So the left is still an enemy. And I am not willing. So my position is a little nuanced. It's different than some of the other America first kind. I would describe myself as America first, but I'm not going to forget. My memory goes back more than just 15 minutes ago. I remember. I remember 2020 through 2024. Those were dark times. Dark times. Churches closed. People just, all of a sudden, your YouTube channel just gone. Your business, done. Your grandparents, they die in the hospital alone. You can't even see them. Your kids masked. They're literally speech impediments that still exist today because children's development was set back by years because of the policies and the tyranny.

44:25So I didn't forget that. Joe Biden's not Jewish. If he was, it'd be easy just to point out. That's the problem. So one problem is simply the left. It's ideological. That said, there also are national enemies. And I do believe that Israel nationally, not just ideology, but as a civilization, is opposed to the Christian West. I do believe that. That's just historic. You look at the Catholic monarchs of Europe. For centuries, for centuries, the diaspora, you know, these Jews in various places have hated Christ and Christian civilization. I'm not saying it's not every single Stein, right? You know, but every single time.

45:15You don't think this is getting a little old? You don't think it's getting a little old? Of course it's getting old, but the question is, is it true? Yeah. Okay, so if we go 2 ,000 years, go 1 ,500 years, who have Christians had the most issues with, war with, that's caused us to unite? 1 ,400 years, absolute slaughter with Muslims. Okay. So that's another enemy. But notice that Israel came before that. Why do you think it's becoming so popular today? And what I'm starting to realize is, like, by the way, that topic, Israel, broke the Republican Party. Oh, my God. It did. And it broke the Republican Party because everybody said, well, this is what Charlie would have said, and here's where he was going.

46:05And they started speculating as if they talked to Charlie and he's dead, right? And here's what this person said. Here's what that person said. And then all of a sudden, the people that are not that deep into it, they're like, oh, my God, that's who the enemy is. That's who the enemy is. And then it just became. And so I wonder behind closed doors who's celebrating. Who's actually sitting there saying, oh, I'm so glad we got Joel. He's on our side. Oh, I'm so glad we got XYZ and ABC. Oh, I'm so glad. Please keep saying it. We're winning, guys. American conservative movement that was super united, 23, 24, 22.

46:40they are falling apart. We're winning. The West is going to fall, right? They're celebrating. And then the messaging was over and over and over again. So, so far your enemies that you're talking about, number one is the left. Great. Number two is Israel. Who else would you say is the enemy? Real quick, if we're saying number one, number two, I'm not triaging. So that's, that's not a list of priority necessarily. This is the worst. You're just naming them all. I'm just naming them all. So I'm not saying Israel is number two or number one or number three, so on and so forth. But Muslim, Islam, Islam is a formidable enemy of the church.

47:14The way that I say it is this. Muslims love a fake Jesus. Muslims are fond of Jesus, but the Jesus that they're fond of is not the Jesus who exists. It's not the Jesus of Scripture. He's a prophet. He's on par with Muhammad, but he's not divine. He is not the son of God, incarnate. So Muslims, like when people say, well, Muslims actually love Jesus. Sure, but they don't love the real Jesus. So I would say Muslims love a fake Jesus and will often kill Christians. Every Muslim? No, of course not. I'm not saying every Muslim is violent, but there are still places, not just for 1400 years in history, but But today, in the year of our Lord, 2026, there are still places where Christians are being killed, not just persecuted, not just canceled off of social media, killed by Muslims.

48:08And we cannot, in our grievances with Israel, with Judaism, with Jewish supremacy, which are valid, and they have to be talked about. I think they have to be talked about. Is it getting old? Sure. But I think part of the reason it's such a big conversation is because nobody talked about it at all for a very long time. beginning i was like wow this is a real thing maybe this is what's going on and then i see how small the numbers are and i'm like wait a minute so qatar is putting 7.7 billion dollars into our universities they gave cornell 1.8 billion dollars for what to because they love the school and they went there or because they're trying to win political influence and then how much is everybody else putting i said israel lost the war if you if you if you're talking about the propaganda race on any leader's bulletin, Israel lost.

48:57Yeah, that's true. Tell me one place that Israel won. Nowhere. Tell me what places Qatar is winning or Qatar is winning. Tell me what places China won. Tell me what places Israel got demolished. So either they're not as smart as everybody makes them out to be. either they thought they were too smart and they realized putting money into congressmen and senators wasn't the way to go because you've got to get the youth and they lost the youth. So they're probably sitting around saying, man, we've got to change this propaganda plan that we have. Everybody's got propaganda. We've got it. China's got it.

49:37Everybody's got it. Christians've got it. Pastors've got it. Business owners've got it. We all got it. Everyone's got it. But my God, if we were to score Israel on their propaganda strategy, it's an F minus. Right. It's an F minus. So, okay, there was a moment where I was having a lot of conversations with Muslims, and I was bringing them down because I wanted to have a conversation to see what things do we have in common with. What do you see where Muslims and Christians share an enemy, aside from Israel? This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new.

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52:38Well, it depends because honestly, every major world religion, including both Christianity and Islam, has been liberalized. Liberalism is the—you want to talk about who won, who's winning, who has an uncontested victory? It's the ideology of liberalism. And I describe liberalism as like, if it's like a car, the engine is egalitarianism. The heartbeat of liberalism is this wooden, insistent, it doesn't bend, it doesn't flex, it's egalitarianism all the way down, all the way down. And so, you know, like if you're a conservative Christian pastor, you're like, well, we're not egalitarian. We only have male elders, you know, and we believe the husband, you know, in the context of the home should be the head of the wife.

53:27But meanwhile, you're fine with, you know, three-piece pantsuit boss babes, you know, leading in political office, you know, and other forms of society. Like Supreme Court, like are there some douchebag guys on the Supreme Court who are going to make terrible decisions? Yes, uh-huh. But part of the reason, birthright citizenship, we'll see. But I got a feeling, a lot of people have a feeling, it probably is going to be upheld. Part of it is going to be because we have four women on the Supreme Court. that I don't believe should be there. That's an egalitarian, liberal idea. So there's egalitarianism as it pertains to race and sex.

54:06Everyone's equal. This blank slate-ism. You can do anything. You can be anyone. Not equal outcome, but equal opportunity. All that's a lie. All of it is a lie. So that being said, back to the question, Christians, Muslims, there's probably a lot of common ground today between some Christians and some Muslims. but not because that common ground is inherent to the actual principles and tenets of the religions of Christianity and Islam. But instead, the reason why there appears subjectively to be so much overlap is because both religions have been thoroughly hijacked by liberalism. There's a ton of Muslims that would say, well, we're peaceful.

54:49And one of the reasons they're peaceful is because they're kind of soft on the Muslim piece and strong on the liberal piece. It's not that they want to be converted to Christianity. Interesting point. It's not that they want to be converted to Christianity. Like Iran. Iran, well, the people want to be liberated. But liberated unto what? God sets us free. The truth shall set you free. But Christian freedom is not a raw libertarian freedom, freedom to do whatever you want. It's freedom from bondage to Satan and sin so that you might be liberated unto slavery to Christ. Freedom to obedience. Freedom to virtue.

55:34And that's not what the people in Iran are crying out for. They want a modern Western liberal freedom. And you know what? So do most Americans. So do most Christians. And they don't even know it. It's like fish swimming in water. How's the water? What's water? You know, we're just swimming in egalitarian slop, in liberal slop, whether you're a Christian in the West, whether you're the people in Iran, in the East, you know, whatever. And so because of that, sure, there's a lot of common ground we have, but most of the common ground we have, I would reject the very premise of it. And I would say that we shouldn't share that in common.

56:09It actually indicates compromise. Yeah, so do Muslims becoming more liberal minimize the threat of what Islamists have? Does it minimize the threat long term of what a lot of conservatives fears from Muslims? Yeah, I think so. I think it does. Right, because that does kind of make sense because if liberal Muslims, if Iran became liberal, Christians in Iran would be treated better. So it would be a temporary improvement for the life of a Christian. Tell me why. Why is that? So this is where J.D. Hall, who's a friend. He writes for us with NXR Studios, the media organization that I'm a part of. He went on Tucker Carlson recently.

57:02There was like a 50-second clip. It was like an hour and a half interview. The whole thing was fantastic. but he said one thing in a 50-second clip that just, that became the headline of the story, is J.D. Hall's being soft on Islam, you know, and that wasn't his point. That's not what he was trying to say. I know J.D. Hall. He has been ferocious against all false religions, including Islam, for decades. So the dude is not soft on Islam. That said, there's this moment where Tucker is asking a question about, has there ever been a time in Islamic history where they actually have not been beheading every single Christian and destroying every single holy site, you know, Christian holy site, and destroying every single church, and blah, blah, blah.

57:50And so, you know, J.D. Holt's just simply trying to answer the question, and he talks about the Ottoman Empire, and it's not as though they had no atrocities, you know, But he's just saying, in a particular place, in a particular season of Muslim history, under the Ottoman Empire, there was a church, I believe it was like the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, that the Ottoman Empire, which was Muslim, it was Islamic, they renovated or restored or helped to fix this Christian holy site a couple of times. And I looked it up, you know, and it's like, you can get particular, well, actually, technically, but he was generally right, generally correct in that statement.

58:31Here's the point, back to your question. Why? Is that because Islam is inherently friendly to Christians? Or is it because the Ottoman Empire was actually, believe it or not, even though very old, was a little liberal? And what I mean by that is whether it's a Christian empire or a Muslim empire or a Jewish empire, whatever, the moment that you start to get empirical, what you're trying to do is expand your borders, expand power, degrees of power, influence, which means that you're going to, by default, have a multicultural and multi-religious plurality within the banners of your empire. And so you're going to necessarily, if you want to sustain that power, you're going to have to lighten up, loosen your grip a little bit on some of your religious ideology and allow for different religions to kind of coexist so that you can have the empire.

59:31Because you've kind of sold out for the economic prosperity and the political power. So you had to make a trade-off, right? That's what politics is. It's trade-offs. And so you made a trade-off on some of your religious ideologies. The Ottoman Empire, which was Islamic, was a little softer in one place at one time towards some Christians. That's true. One time for like five minutes? Not super long. Not super long. But here's the deal. The problem is that this clip... Was that really the clip? The clip was that Ottoman Empire? Is this it, by the way? Yeah, you can play it if you want. Yeah, go ahead.

1:00:03Let me see it. I want to see it. And their Muslim rulers didn't do that during the Ottoman period. Okay, so the answer is no. The Muslim rulers didn't tax churches during the Ottoman period. They were very kind to Christians. As a matter of fact, they took care of our holy sites. They had rebuilt Islamic authorities, rebuilt the Church of the Sepulchre three different times over the centuries. They had a law protecting Christian pilgrims on their journey. Like nobody messed with the pilgrims. The Ottoman Turks, the Muslim rulers of the Holy Land, rebuilt the Church of the Holy Sepulchre three times?

1:00:46Three times, yeah. Either completely rebuilt it or a major renovation one time it caught on fire and they redid the roof. But if you've seen the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, you can imagine what it took to redo that. No, it's in their Muslim rulers. That's it. So the criticism is there. The criticism is that J.D. Hall is ingratiating himself with Muslims, being soft on Islam. Well, the part I would say is the following. Here's the problem. Say I kill 2.5 million Armenians, Assyrians, and Greeks. Okay, Bulgarians, whatever, you know. Say I do that with the Ottomans, the Ottoman Empire, Turks. but I help 88 people with a building that I built.

1:01:34Guess what story I want to be told more. You make the footnote, the headline, and that's dishonest. I agree. That's what probably upset a lot of people here. I understand the frustration, but also knowing J.D. personally, I know what you believe. This isn't even towards J.D. I'm sure J.D.'s a nice guy. I don't know J.D. J.D.'s a great guy. You tell me he's a very good writer, and he's done great work with you guys, so I trust that. But again, the cherry-picking part of stories, to me, when I would sit down and I would talk to Muslims, I'm like, tell me where you are with LGBTQ. We're deeply concerned about it.

1:02:05I talked to Mehdi Hassan. He's not. But your point, Mehdi Hassan, is probably more liberal than he's a Muslim. Exactly. So to him, when I asked and said, would you vote for a conservative Muslim? He said, no, I would vote for a liberal Christian more than I would vote for a conservative Muslim. Because James Tallarico. His true allegiance is to liberalism. Yeah, so then if that comes back to us, what would we say, though? If you ask that same question of a conservative, would you vote for a conservative Muslim or a liberal Christian? I would not vote. So I would abstain. You would stay out of it, right?

1:02:43So then that becomes the challenge there. But, yeah, I mean, that story right here on what JD's talking about. If you cherry pick, Tucker's cherry picking a story because he knows, and he probably got J.D. in trouble with some of the ways. He definitely got J.D. in trouble, but I got to say publicly. Tucker has said some things. A little soft on Islam. Not my fave. I talked to him a little bit about that. But let the record state, I love Tucker Carlson. Yeah. No, no, I get that. I get that. The fact the market is filled with a lot of different voices. Yep. Let me ask, right? Is there anybody you wouldn't accept to come to your church?

1:03:27Mainly black people. I'm just kidding. So back to the interracial marriage. The irony is that because we live in the world as it is, right? So that's how you can tell a serious person versus somebody who's just pretending. Real politics is the realm of the possible, not just the ideal. What can I do given the lay of the land today, right? The circumstances that actually exist dealing in the world of reality. So I live in, you know, outside of Austin, Texas. It's incredibly diverse, incredibly diverse. The gospel is for all people. Now, I think that a lot of people who are within a vicinity of my church, that politically speaking, so there's categories, right?

1:04:08Two kingdoms, right? The kingdom of grace and the common kingdom, right? Church, which is word and sacrament, those things higher, those things which are eternal, our highest good, our eternal good, and then the temporal world. And we have to, as Christians, think not in ways that contradict, but in ways that are still distinct, depending what category we're operating in. So in the political category, there's a lot of people in my area who should not be there. They shouldn't be in our country. That said, though, I don't have much control over that. They are here. And so anybody within a driving radius of my church, whether they should legally be here or not, if they want to come to my church on Sunday morning, they're not going to be disruptive.

1:04:50They're not going to be a threat. Then, of course, they're welcome. So my church has multiple interracial couples. They know my position. They watch the debate. They saw all the controversy. They agree with me. They've come to me and said, both husband and wife, and said, you know what? Yeah, our marriage. Marriage is hard no matter what because you're taking a man and a woman who are very different and telling them to share the same bed, right? Marriage is a challenge. It is a challenge. My wife is so different than me. She thinks different emotionally. It's not just we're physically different.

1:05:23We are psychologically different. We are emotionally different, mentally different at every single level, all the way down. Egalitarianism is a lie. Liberalism is a lie. My wife and me, very different. So the differences are already going to make marriage a challenge to add voluntarily of your own volition. Let's add even more differences, right? Like interracial. And when I say interracial, by implication, I'm saying there's extra distinctions culturally, even language. like one of the men in my church, he cannot speak to his in-laws because they don't speak English. And he's like, yeah, Joel, this has been a challenge.

1:06:00And if you look at that man and say, do you regret it? He's like, no, I love my wife. Of course I love my wife. And I love my biracial children. I would die for them. I love them. But he agrees with me in saying, yeah, but here's the deal. What you said, Joel, it's biblically permissible, but it shouldn't be the ordinary normative pattern God's designed for peoples and cultures and nations. That's a perfectly reasonable position. And why did I feel it necessary to even say that? I've already admitted one of the reasons. One of the reasons is because I allowed myself to get trapped by an annoying woman, and that's on me.

1:06:39Moment of weakness online, I fired back on Twitter. Probably shouldn't have. But here's the second reason. That I regret. But I don't regret it all the way. Because here's the second reason. If we lived in a culture today where there wasn't, you spoke of propaganda, where there wasn't this like full, incessant, a full court press of constant propaganda from media, academia, politics, constantly pushing people towards marrying with other people, diversity, diversity, diversity, then I probably wouldn't feel the need to ever say a word about the topic. You watch television, Patrick, and just watch the commercials.

1:07:20Do you ever see a commercial with a white mom and a white dad and white children? No, I mean, you know what they're doing. By the way, these are interesting stats. U.S. National Survey of Family Growth found that after 10 years of marriage, interracial couples, 41 % had separated or divorced. Same race couples, 31 % had separated or divorced. If you go a little bit lower, it says black husband and white wife tend to have the highest divorce risks among the combination study. Shocking. And then white husband, Asian wife, tend to have the relatively lowest divorce rate. So maybe marry an Asian. I believe it.

1:07:55I might be an Asian supremacist. I don't know. I'm open to it. Hispanic, white, and Asian white marriages often had divorce risks similar to those of the higher risk groups impairing once other factors were taken into account. Interesting. Interesting to see that. Because here's the deal. We can't just live in the ideal. We are both body and soul. So there's a spiritual reality, right? And we have to as Christians. It's never less than that. But we're not Gnostics. One of the earliest heresies in the church was Gnosticism that made it as though the spiritual and the eternal was all that mattered, the only significant thing, the only true thing, and that the body was not just of less account but of no account, that the temporal world and our temporal physical lives were nothing, that the body was actually just functioning as a prison, containing and restraining the soul, and to be freed of the body was the idea, which actually flies in the face as a contradiction to true Christian theology, that our final state will not be as spirits floating in the 17th dimension with Jesus.

1:08:58The final state, right, to be absent of the body is to be present with the Lord in spirit. But the final state is that Jesus will physically, bodily return, and there will be the final resurrection, and my soul will be rejoined with my resurrected, now glorified body, so that I will have both a spiritual and physical eternal existence with the Lord and his people forever. That's Christian, historic, orthodox doctrine. So as Christians, we can't be Gnostics. We can't despise the temporal world. And when I speak of the temporal world, back to interracial marriage, here's one of the acknowledgments of the world as it actually exists, the world that God made.

1:09:35Similarities are helpful, right? How do you have a high-trust society? Well, one of the ways that you have a high-trust society is you share more in common with your neighbors. You speak the same language. You have the same ideals. You even look similar. That helps, and if that helps at a societal level, would that not help in marriage? Does that mean that interracial marriage is therefore a sin? No. But to say that it should be the norm in every commercial on TV, that's where I'm like, that's enough.

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1:12:16Can you pull up the chart you just texted me, guys? This is pretty wild. If you look at this chart, it shows spouse ethnicity, who they marry. And they got a bunch of different races. If you make it bigger to show it, it's actually very interesting. So the red, if you look at the right, red is white, ethnicity. Black is blue. Then you got Hispanic is green, Chinese. You see the whole thing. And then on the top left, it shows white marrying a white male. Okay, guess what? 86 % of the time. A white male marrying a white female, they go for a white male. 88 % of the time, 12 % of the time they don't.

1:12:56Black to black, you see the blue is blue. Okay, so black male marry 21 % of the time white females, but black females 19 % of the time marry white males. Hispanics is Hispanic, except for 22 % to 28%, 26%, they marry whites. Chinese is majority Chinese. Many Chinese male do not marry white females only 11 % of the time. But the Chinese female, 29 % of the time, will marry a white female, white male. Then you have the Indians predominantly with Indians, although Indian males will marry white females versus Indian females won't marry white males as much. Filipinos is Filipino. Filipino female is actually the third highest of what white males will marry.

1:13:42They'll marry white males, Filipino. And then you have Japanese and then you have Hispanics. Latinas are the highest. 46 % of the time they will get a white husband. The lowest one here is, which you may actually get excited about, is Pakistani females don't marry too many white men. Although you may want that. You may want a lot of interracial marriages with Pakistani females in your church. Not particularly. Not particularly. It's interesting when you see this. I married a white girl from Texas. And I'm obviously Middle Eastern, Armenian, Assyrian. But you're Christian. But I'm Christian. That's the highest.

1:14:19I'm not a race essentialist. I'm a religious essentialist. You're a Christian nationalist. Yes, sir. So religion comes first. Race is not everything, but it's also not nothing. And that's where liberalism lies to us. Right, right. Values, principles, understanding, culture, all of that matter. And when you see a lot of these commercials, every commercial is a white man with a black girl or a black man with a white man. And they're trying to do that a little bit too much. By the way, I want to show you a clip of Seth Rogen. Real quick, can I say what I think the point of that is? Because they'll do black man and black woman, and they'll do Hispanic man and Hispanic woman.

1:15:00But if it's white, it's black man, white woman. Or it could be two white people, but they're both dudes or they're both chicks, right? It's gay or lesbian. To me, I can't help but think, when I think, what's the purpose? Every single relational arrangement you could possibly even conceive of is represented in television, in media, entertainment, except for the one biological, not just relational, but biological arrangement that produces white kids. I think they just hate white people. I think they want less white people. That's what I think.

1:15:38Yeah, I think white or conservative white. They don't mind the liberal white. That's true. They don't mind the liberal white. They mind the conservative white. That's where the problem. They love Tallarico. He's white, but he's a liberal. That's their hero. That's their next Obama, even though he's not black. I'm in Texas. I see the sign. He's everywhere. Yeah, he's everywhere. We'll see what happened there. I want you to watch this clip of Seth Rogen with Stephen Bartlett from Diary of CEO. And in this context, they're talking about having kids. And as they get older, did they regret not having kids?

1:16:10Or, you know, do they sit there and say, we made the right decision, and you're someone who's got five kids, four girls, a son, and one on the way is going to be the sixth? I want you to watch this clip. Go for it. Reference to that you don't have any kids. I do not. That has helped me succeed as well. Definitely. Really? Oh, yeah. There's a whole huge thing I'm not doing, which is raising children. would it people obviously someone listening but yeah but it would make you happier you know someone might say that i'm trying to rebuttal i don't think it would i've been around obviously a lot of children i'm not i'm not ignorant to what it's like to i've i've seen everyone i know has kids i i see i'm a you know i'm 40 again you know like it's not i i know you know i've i've some of my friends have had kids for decades you know um some people want kids some people don't want kids i A lot of people have kids before they even think about it.

1:17:07From what I've seen, honestly, you just are told you go through life, you get married, you have kids. It's what happens. And me and my wife were just, neither of us were like that, you know? And honestly, the older we get, the more happy and reaffirmed we are with our choice to not have kids. Like, it was something we kind of talked about more, and we were like, have we made the right choice? Are we sure? Now, if more than anything, the conversation is like, honestly, thank God we don't have children. Thank God. I mean, do you even think he believes in God? Of course not. So first, Jarvis, pull up an early life check on Seth Rogen.

1:17:51Okay. You know what I'm saying. Yeah. But then second, here's where he's fundamentally wrong, right out of the gate. The whole conversation has to do with his own personal happiness. Screw your happiness. right screw your freedom right we shouldn't say that arnold schwarzenator but screw your happiness here's the deal everyone is living their lives as though their happiness is somehow the goal forget this is where i think even america and i love our founding um but i do think that one of the things that was baked into the pie from the beginning that did allow for some of the problems we have today is the exaltation of liberty above duty, virtue.

1:18:33It's not about, I did not have children because I thought they would make me happy. Here's the thing. God is so merciful and kind. It turns out I was wrong. And so is he. He would be happier. And I am so much happier having children. But before I had kids, it terrified me. I didn't say, babe, we've got to have kids as soon as possible because I'm not happy and they'll make me happy. No, no, no. I was under the delusion. I was deceived. I thought this is going to be so hard. It's going to be so much work. It's going to cost so much money, even as a Christian. The other way around. So your concern was how hard it's going to be.

1:19:07That's right. That was my concern. But then why did I do it? Why did I do it? Because I knew it was right. It wasn't about my happiness. Now, here's the thing. I was wrong. It actually made me happy because the right thing that God requires also ends up being the good thing that makes the heart of man glad, because God is not capricious. He's not arbitrary. He doesn't just randomly, randomly say, these are the tenets of morality, and they also, consequently, conveniently, are the very things that will make you miserable and sad. No, God is a good God, a kind and loving God. The things that He says these are holy are also the things that make us happy.

1:19:43But I was delusional. I was deceived, thinking this is not going to make me happy, But I did it anyways. Why? Because duty trumped delight. Because virtue trumped liberty. I knew that having children was important for the world, for society, for the kingdom of God, to raise up godly offspring. Genesis commands, be fruitful and multiply. I understand some people biologically can't have kids, right? So I'm not saying that they're in sin. But ordinarily, speaking in norms, ordinarily, it is good and fitting and right and even obligatory. If we're Christians, reading the Bible, that we seek to make disciples, and our first disciples are the little disciples in our home, that we seek to be fruitful and multiply with the wife of our youth, that the overflow of our love produces the fruit of the womb, and that we We raise them in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

1:20:42They are arrows, the Psalms say. The children are like arrows that a man, a father, will one day shoot out. The greatest arsenal, the greatest weaponry, going all the way back to the topic of power, the most powerful thing I have that will ultimately conquer my enemies are my six children who will be raised in the fear and admonition of the Lord and will do immense damage like arrows, like a battering ram up against the gates of hell. So I had kids because I must have them, not just because I wanted to have them. And now I can't imagine life without them. Seth Rogen is wrong. He's wrong because he's selfish, because he's arrogant, because he's a pothead, right?

1:21:24All these reasons. We know this. But he's also wrong because he starts with the wrong premise. I don't know if kids would make me happy. Who cares about your happiness? Somebody may say, what do you mean who cares about my happiness? God cares about your happiness. Yeah, yeah. The liberal argument may be like, it's my life. I get to do what I want to do in my life. I don't want to have kids. I want to spend time with my wife, and I want to be doing my thing. Why should I have kids, Joel? This is exactly why I don't like the Bible-thumping pastors out there telling me to go have kids and live for somebody else and not for myself.

1:21:59I don't want to do that. Why is there anything wrong with that? Because God wrote a book. This isn't my opinion. I have lots of opinions, and we've talked about some of them today. This one ain't one of my opinions. This is not subjective. God in heaven wrote a book, and that book is true whether Joel Webin was ever born or not. And in that book, one of the first commandments he gives to his image-bearing creatures is to be fruitful and multiply. because one of the end games, the eschaton of man here on earth and heavenly life in eternity is that God's image-bearing creatures would so fill the earth, imaging, emulating Christ to all of the cosmos, to the world, that they would be born and multiply, but also shaped and forged more and more into the image of God through catechism, discipleship, gospel, all these things.

1:22:54Why should you do it? Because God says so. And that's a good reason. That's a sufficient reason. God wrote a book and he said so. Yeah, well, let's see if anything will happen. Can you pull up Seth Rogen's wife? Do you know who his wife is? No. I don't know who his wife is. I don't really follow actors. I thought for a second you were like a big Seth Rogen guy. I was maybe speculating. I'm usually not big on potheads. Lauren Miller is she is she a Hollywood person is she an actress I don't know if she is maybe she is oh she wasn't super bad okay and Zachary all right so they're in the same world they're both coming from Hollywood and that's their life so the chances of them having kids together they by the way they've been to you respect to them they've been together for 23 years that for Hollywood that is unbelievable no that is that's that beats the odds so if you're together 23 years and 23 years later you still decide not to have kids i think you're wrong i i still think they're wrong yeah but you are right the fact that they've lasted together for 23 years for hollywood that's pretty good have you watched the recent movie citizen vigilante no have you seen this movie or no okay Okay.

1:24:08It's a low-budget movie, a couple million dollars. Uwe Boll makes this movie. It is officially the number one movie, I believe, on Amazon and Apple. Really? And it has created so much chaos. We don't even need to play the clip. It's created so much chaos. I just thought maybe you had watched the clip. Lots of controversy behind this movie. When you get a chance, I'd love to hear your thoughts on what you think. I watched that movie, another one. that was kind of made from scratch, YouTuber, the one with all the back rooms. What did you think about that? That was fascinating. That was really fascinating.

1:24:47I'm glad I watched it as an experience because it was creative. But it was a different kind of terror. It wasn't just the jump cuts, you know, and like a saw grotesque kind of. It was a psychological. For sure. But not just terror, but like absolute hopelessness, despair so i would never watch it again but not because it was it was a great movie but miserable such a miserable experience what's what's your position on catholicism i have many catholic followers and absolutely would consider them to be friends so grateful for them uh calvin robinson he's on our network uh with nxr he does a weekly show on thursdays now he's not roman catholic but he's basically Catholic minus the Pope.

1:25:34And he appreciates a Pope, he just thinks he should be a first among equals, a bishop who's going to settle disputes among other regional bishops, but not speaking ex-cathedra and having authority over all the other bishops. So anyways, but Calvin is a close friend, and he's mostly Catholic. Nick Fuentes, we did a 10-part series with him. I consider him a friend. I appreciate him very much. don't agree on everything, of course, because I'm my own person, but I think Nick does a lot of great work. He's a Roman Catholic, very, very much committed to his faith. So I think that Catholics are natural allies.

1:26:10This is where I kind of woke up in my world, the historic Reformed Protestant world, when Reformed pastors started getting on to me about my willingness to participate with Catholics, work with Catholics. Not in the local church. I would never have a Catholic elder. Again, you have to think in categories. So in the church, I'm not going to have this ecumenicalism. We need to be theologically aligned. So in my church, the leaders of my church, they're going to be Protestant. They're going to be Reformed Protestant. Diversity of thought, theology, is not a strength in a local church setting. Out here, as I'm seeking to do things political and cultural and larger, broader influence, you've got to have numbers, right?

1:26:58You can't just shoot your own teammates, right? So linking arms, co-belligerence, and when Reformed pastors started turning against me and saying, well, you're getting too buddy-buddy with the Catholics, but meanwhile, they're perfectly willing to be buddy-buddy with Dennis Prager, Ben Shapiro. And again, right here, I'm not trying to...the Jews. But this is actually just a good example, just religiously speaking, not ethnically, not nationally, religiously speaking. Who's closer to Protestant Christians, Catholics or Orthodox Jews? Catholics. Of course. So what do I think about Catholics? I love them.

1:27:34Do I wish they agreed with me? Of course. Of course. Do I think they're wrong theologically on some issues that are not just benign but significant that it matters such as what such as what um okay so i prefer the catholic to the eastern orthodox one big reason um penal substitutionary atonement christus victor is one of the views of the atonement and it's true it's a historic position it's not less than that christ conquering over the prince of the air and demonic princes and principalities. It's true. He held them to open shame. Colossians says, this is awesome. Christ, through his death and resurrection, victorious, breaking the chains, binding the strong man, Satan.

1:28:18Beautiful. I hold to Chris as victor. But penal substitutionary atonement. Substitutionary. Substitute. Jesus did not just die as a moral example of sacrificial love. Greater love. Jesus says, greater love has no one than this, that a man would lay down his life for his friends. Jesus' sacrifice is an example, a moral example of sacrificial love that we should seek to follow. But if that's all it is... This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.

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1:31:19He didn't just die as an example of sacrificial love. He died, he who knew no sin became sin on my behalf so that I might inherit the righteousness of God. My sin, double imputation, my sin was imputed to Christ. His righteousness through faith imputed to me. When God sees me, he sees the very righteousness of Christ. And on the cross, when God looked at Jesus, he saw the most vile sinner in all the world, bearing all the sins of the elect, and he poured out his white hot wrath. Father, why have you forsaken me? Because Jesus was the most disgusting sinner in that moment who has ever lived in the history of humanity.

1:31:57He didn't just die as an example. He died as a substitute. He died in my place. That's the heart of the gospel. EO, Eastern Orthodox, they deny. Catholics agree with that. So I have more in common with Catholics. Also, they're Western. They think in terms of substance, rationale, Eastern Orthodox, it's Eastern. So it's more mysticism, experiencing God. Whereas the Western tradition, right, Augustine, Aquinas is knowing God. The goal is to know Christ. Whereas, you know, For the Eastern guys, there's more of an emphasis on being one with God and experiencing God. But one of my big disagreements with Catholics is, even though they hold a penal substitutionary atonement, praise God, imputation, double imputation of righteousness, imputed, right?

1:32:43So Abraham, he believed God, and it was accredited, transferred like a bank transaction, accredited, transferred, imputed to his account as righteousness, whereas the Catholic is infused righteousness, that through sacraments, right, through these different practices, the Eucharist, confession, all many of these things, good things, but there is an infusion of grace that comes again and again and again, all the way up until your death, right? Last rites from the priest, one more infusion of grace, get the bread down the gullet, you know, and a sip of wine, because we need one more transfusion of grace, you know, to lift the soul to make sure this guy doesn't go to hell, or he goes to purgatory, but maybe, you know, he'll be there for a hundred years instead of a thousand.

1:33:33I just don't believe that's what the Bible teaches. I believe it's this once and for all righteousness of Christ, not just infused, but imputed to us, not by work so that no man can boast, but by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone, I am at the end of the day, and I know my Catholic listeners will hear this, and they'll be like, oh, that's so insufferable. Oh, Joel, we loved you, and you're being so gay. Here I am. Here I stand. So God help me. I am a Protestant. Catholics say stop being gay. Maybe that's a compliment from them. Maybe. But I love my Catholic friends. It's great.

1:34:07I love it. Joel, great having you on. How can people find you? Where could we send people to come learn more about you? First, thank you so much. A huge honor. I know that I have the reputation of being a radical. You hearing me out, giving me a chance, it means the world. Thank you. Anytime. So NXR Studios, you just search it on Rumble or YouTube or whatever. NXR. Yes, sir. So NXR, it's just our way of saying New Christian Right. That's what it stands for. Got it. New Christian Right. So New Christian Right Studios, NXR, Rumble, YouTube, and then you can just follow me on Twitter. It's at Joel Webin.

1:34:40And you've got an event that's coming up in December as well, if you want to let the audience know. We do. Thank you. Can you zoom in so we can see the speakers at this event? Yeah, so this is Christ is King. Okay. That's the main title. And can we play this trailer? 34 minutes? No, no, no, no. Oh, that's an episode. It's one minute. Yeah, yeah, of course. If they just play the first minute. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Is that okay? Where is it at? That was it, actually. Oh, can they go back to just play the first minute? Yeah, just play the first minute of that episode. you were just on. I was going to say 34 minute trailer.

1:35:12That's a scary trailer. But it's called Crisis King America After Trump. Okay. Here we go. America will either have Christ or will have chaos. For years, conservatives believed that Trump could reverse America's decline. But after Trump, the right is now fractured, exhausted, and losing ground. Endless infighting and electoral losses have exposed a deeper problem that politics alone cannot solve. A nation that rejects Christ cannot be restored by mere personalities, grandstanding, or Christless conservatism. So NXR Studio's first annual conference, America After Trump, brings together pastors, politicians, commentators, and Christians that are committed to strength, cooperation, and a durable future for the American right.

1:36:09Complaining is not a strategy, and despair cannot be an option. Christ is King. Let's live like it. Save 50 % off your ticket only by registering before May 31st at newchristianright.com forward slash conference. That's newchristianright.com forward slash conference. There you go. So that's it. Fantastic. Very excited. And again, NXR Studios. Go look them up. Joel, great having you on. I'm always fascinated by these different personalities to see what makes you guys tick. I learned a lot about your story today. And I was glad I invited you. I was glad we sat down and we spoke. So I appreciate your time.

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