Amy Astley on Working Alongside Anna Wintour and Building Brands

27:02and there were people who were resistant for sure in the industry very resistant were there meetings or you had to be I really tough on that I had to push it you know I think at Conde Nasta had great support around what I wanted to do of course you you have to make it happen before you get more resources this is just how it is you know so I pushed the team I moved people around and we you know, we built a big Instagram platform with not a lot of people. I remember back thinking how the transformation happened so quickly for you and the publication. Yeah. When did you recognize, like, did you ever realize, was there a specific moment where you sat down or you were in a meeting or you were looking at certain numbers and you identified that the road that you were on was the right one?

27:54I felt my very first issue was a big change, which had Marc Jacobs' dog on the cover with his Instagram handle, you know? So I was just like, boom, I'm putting it out there. You really took a chance. Yes. And of course the printers thought it was a mistake that we had an Instagram handle for Neville, you know, Marc's dog. But I really wanted to shake it up and say we are in the current, we're part of pop culture. We're current, you know, we understand technology. And not that it's like your grandmother's AD. So I felt that Mark and his dog said that, like, the first issue. You had to have the confidence.

28:34It was a bold move. It was a bold move. I mean, it's funny. I'm sure you can relate to this as an athlete. Like, I mean, so many athletes say, you see it in the Olympics, like, the gymnast who's 16 and they're fearless, you know? They're not afraid yet. So there is something to be. I wasn't like that young, you know, when I took over. I wasn't. But it was a new role in a new publication. Yes. With a new set of responsibilities. Yes. And a different demographic. Yes. I really was sort of fearless. I now I'm more wary, you know, but now it's a bigger machine. It really, yes. It's a much bigger machine, you know.

29:16But there, the thing is, Maria, they really, AD at that time had a very limited digital presence. I mean, what could go wrong? There was nothing there. It wasn't like I was going to destroy anything. I mean, there were like a million Instagram followers or less. And now it's 11 million. And it takes time to build that up, you know? Everything takes time. Everything takes time. But we just plugged away at it. And I think at the end of probably, I don't remember the exact numbers, but there was definitely a point when I said, oh, good. We've doubled. We have 2 million Instagram followers. Oh, OK.

29:47We have 3 million. Where can we go from now? Yeah. Oh, wow. We have four. And now the growth is slower in digital. Of course. Everyone knows this because of the saturation point. But at that time, you could grow more. And we still have moments of incredible growth when there's a really exciting story or something that resonates with people. Yeah, and it's so great to see that.

30:10Welcome to Pretty Tough Tips, a short series on performance presented by Pure Leaf Ice Tea.

30:18This season, we're exploring mental focus. And today's tip is on visualization. Visualization is the process of picturing the future in order to prepare for different outcomes. It's almost like a workout that feeds into your discipline. It's an exercise, not an activity.

30:36Visualization became a part of my routine as I was getting for every single match of most of my career. 30 minutes before the match, it would just be me huddled inside the locker room, thinking of the scenarios that would play out in the match and all the technicalities, the directions of where I wanted to serve, how my body feels hitting an ace or being up a match point or playing the best match of my life. But equally, how does my body feel when I make a mistake and it goes in the net or it goes long or my opponent just hits a winner and there's nothing I can do because it was out of my control.

31:14And making sure that my body went through all of those moments so that when it does actually play out and it happens, it won't be as jarring and it won't be as surprising and it'll feel like, okay, I got to get up and do something again or try something new.

31:36I've always thought of visualization as a practice and it's a discipline. It's very informative. It's not fluffy. It's not a way to just pass time, but it becomes really intentional and something that made a huge difference in my career.

31:54I've now applied visualizing before I record the podcast segments. It's a new skill set. I've always been on the other side. I've been answering questions for most of my career, and now I get to sit opposite incredible individuals and ask them questions. Good question. I feel like I'm winning since you already told me that's a good question. Yeah, there you go. Coming from a journalist. Good question. I thought about where I'd wanted to take the conversation. I thought about the interview, visualize the way that I ask a question. What do I want to get out of it? It's about engaging in a conversation that hopefully you will learn from just as much as the audience will.

32:34And just remember, your brain doesn't fully distinguish between vividly imagined reps and the real ones. When people vividly imagine performing an action, many of the same neural networks activate as when they physically perform it. Studies on athletes, musicians, and even surgeons have shown that mental rehearsal can strengthen motor pathways, improve confidence, and even sharpen a performance. so next time you're getting ready for a big performance whether it's in your arena or in your boardroom don't forget to set some time for yourself and visualize

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34:26Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. I'd love to hear, was there a particular obstacle in those early days when you were, you know, getting the ground running when you were, you know, hiring and firing perhaps when you were creating a new vision? And did you have, was there a really tough moment in that process? I did have to let people go. And I knew right away the people who had to go. They were either not on board with technology or not on board with being collaborative. You know, there were gatekeepers within the team. And I just knew that we had to work together.

35:10It's the only way to change something and grow something in a big way and to really have a vibrant creative product, you know. For example, I wanted all the editors to be able to come to me and to pitch their ideas and their projects rather than it like going through gatekeepers and things like that. So, yes, I had to make a lot of changes and I really knew what they were going to be. But I had been the editor-in-chief of Team Vogue for 13 years. It gave me a huge foundation. A huge platform. A huge platform to understand how to manage people, how to build a digital business, the kinds of people that are toxic in group environments.

35:48Was there something that didn't pan out, a vision that you had that you were excited about and it just couldn't get it going? It all kind of went swimmingly for such a long time. I did have to make a lot of changes, but I think we picked people who shared my vision for what AD could be. Probably the biggest challenge, as I alluded to, is in the beginning, it's not like you get a whole social media team. You have like one person. Building small. And you have to show that you can do it. Or like one person on video. you know now I have nine people on video but you you don't have all that in the beginning so it's it's a little bit more scrappy and challenging to to get where you want to go I want to talk about the open door series yeah because I feel like that was such a big part of the transformation of AD yeah was that one of your ideas yes yes um when I arrived at AD they had a shoot going with Faith Hill and Tim McGraw, who owned an island, like, I don't remember, in the Bahamas or something.

36:54And I said, oh, are you? It was an island. They did, which they've sold. They had this beautiful island, and AD was, it was when I walked in, and they weren't shooting any video there. And I said, we should shoot video. And everybody's like, what do you mean shoot video? This was a very foreign concept. So we sent a video crew. We didn't call it Open Door, but it was the earliest expression and moment of me saying, we should give people a tour and put it on the website and put it on the Instagram account. And then the first one we did was with Robert Downey Jr. He had a house with a windmill attached to it in East Hampton.

37:26And I mean, that's a great get. Amazing. Scoring. Score. We had him. It was such a fun house. He had a great designer. He did it with his wife. And, you know, he's so funny. So we got a great video from him. And then once somebody, Well, the great thing is once you have someone with so much clout and, you know, you can show other celebrities. Robert Downey Jr. did it. I mean, he's a tough act to follow because he's so funny. But then the doors opened and people realized, well, if Robert Downey Jr. will do it, it's good enough for me too. And you get a different result with every person. I mean, some people like him are very funny.

38:08Some people are very serious. And that's so unique is you never quite know what you're going to get because it's not just about the personality or the talent or the home. It's this combination of, well, what do they say about the home? How do they live in their home? And I remember back to the MTV crib days where you were most likely looking at an athlete's garage with 10 Lamborghinis. and then all of a sudden you have this elevated version of the home tour guiding you through this beautiful garden you know through their libraries yes it's such a I mean I we did one together we did yours was so beautiful I love your house so much I remember being so nervous because I felt like as someone is following you with a camera you kind of and you're talking you know through all the pieces that you own I was like do I know that artist's name I know and am I talking about the right textures and the colors.

39:01And, you know, you want to sound like you belong. And you did because you loved your house. I mean, you built that house with your architect. You really cared about that house and that came through. I remember that moment when we reconnected. It must have been 10, 8 to 10 years ago. And we met randomly at a party in New York City. And you said, where are you living? And I said, Los Angeles. And you're like, can I see your home? And I was like, why? Yeah, yeah. I was kind of naive about it. Yeah. And then Alexander said, well, maybe she'd love to photograph your home. And I was like, oh, but no, that's such a personal space.

39:36And the minute you stepped into my home and you said, I would love to future your home. And I said, well, the bedroom, the master bedroom, I have boundaries. I'm very private. I don't want to share that. And you said, it is whatever you want it to be. And that's been your tone throughout. always I have many prominent people who say they if they do agree to shoot the house they say I don't want my bedroom or I don't want my child's bedroom it's fine why why would we ever stick a camera somewhere that someone doesn't want it you know um but others would try yeah but you have no I don't want any pain no pain no suffering it should be a joyous experience and it's a really generous thing to open up the house you know because let's face it it's it's not just that it's going in the magazine, that's like the most, that's like the softest part of it.

40:28It's going on the internet with all the people and all their opinions, you know, and we all know what that looks like. And that's only gotten harder and tougher over the years, a more harsh place. I think I'm really grateful that people, I love interior design, you know, I love architecture. You did from the beginning. I did from the beginning and I've come full circle, but I really don't want the toxic internet to scare people off from showing their nests because it's also really great to see a personal space. It is actually what makes AD resonate for people. They remember your house. I remember your tour so well.

41:05You were authentic. You were natural. You loved the house. You worked. You collaborated so closely with the architect. I did, with the entire team, with Courtney Applebaum and Kirkpatrick. and yeah it was a real team that's it was like the first time I remember I mean it was a major design project but it was like when we would have a team meeting I would tell them like you've designed gorgeous homes I want this to be your best home I remember you saying that and I was like she's such a champion I've like I want to elevate your own work I want you to elevate your level not because I don't think your level before was good but I know you can do so much better and I want this to be the most beautiful home.

41:43Did they love that challenge when you threw that down? Well, they delivered. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the indoor-outdoor vibe, the pool right outside of your dining area with the fireplace. Also the feeling, because I feel like a modern home can be cold. They can be. When you see the tall concrete walls. Yeah. There's a lot of open space, right? And at first glance, you're like, hmm, where's the warmth? But walking through the house, their textures and there's a feeling of belonging in there and the light the light the California light the light makes it really warm pretty I mean you were so knowledgeable about your house and everything in it and some people are less so but some are very knowledgeable some people credit everybody who worked in their house Walt Goggins did that recently and the viewers on YouTube I read the comments not all gazillion thousand of them but I read a lot of the comments to get the gist of it.

42:39And people love that Walt shouted out his decorator and his architect and the people who worked in the house. They found that very gracious, you know? I mean, as someone that's interested in a personality and they watch it because of a name, then they're immersed in this world of design. And all of a sudden they're interested in, oh, that fabric is kind of chic. Exactly. Maybe I could put that on my pillow. I remember Dakota Johnson's house. Her tour was amazing. Her video's amazing. Her photo shoot's amazing. I remember her comment. Was it the lime or the lemon or the limes? Yeah, that got a, it was viewed many times, to say the least.

43:17Many, many times, many times. How great to raise people's awareness of design through elevating videos that they want to look at. Like so many young people told me they watched Troye Sivan's video, which was great. His house in Australia was just fantastic. I haven't seen that. I have to check that one out. It's an old one. I think it was sort of pandemic days, maybe. Troy, you know, is a musician. You know him, and he's, he loves design. The architecture in Australia is so beautiful. They bring in the outdoors. Yes, it is. Indoor, outdoor. And he worked with this great now AD100 designer called David Flack, who has a very cool bohemian kind of take.

43:57And I mean, Troy's house was so great in AD, but his video was just killer, and he was so charming, And so many young people watched it. So many people told me, messaged, of course, there on the video, but also came into my world saying, Troy made me interested in lighting. Troy made me interested in my environment. I knew kids who said they went and changed up their dorm rooms or their bedrooms because they were inspired by Troy. Emma Chamberlain, also a very young person we did. And again, a house that, and a video that people just, they just ate it up, you know. Is that an effect that you thought you would have when you started?

44:34Or is that something that came with the evolution of your role? I just wanted AD to feel young. You know, I didn't want it to feel like grandmotherly and to only have. You dusted it off. Yeah, we dusted it off. You really did. We needed young people. But how do you keep it fresh? It's been nine years. You've had the series for nine years. You've been at AD. It'll be 10 years in June. Yeah. How do you keep? You have 12. Yes. 12 issues a year. Yes, 10. 10 issues a year. How do you keep figuring out how to re-engage? Such a good question. And find new concepts and keep it fresh? I'm going to be honest.

45:14The true answer is that I'm a design obsessive and I'm a people person. I'm really interested in other people. I'm really interested in you. I'm very interested in telling other people's stories. and there are so many great people. There are always new people that you didn't meet, that you don't know. They're popping up. And very similar, it's not about just choosing someone for the amount of followers they have or for their popularity or their fandom. It's really about the individual, their story, their personality, their tastes. Well said. It stays fresh for me because I keep finding great people and my team is amazing and similarly obsessed and we're interested in artisans and makers and we just we just eat it up so I can never really get enough and it keeps me sort of thriving and engaged I hope it keeps me young

46:14what is something about the world of publishing at the moment that keeps you up at night But AI, I mean, we have barely scratched the surface of what that will mean in every respect. About how we consume. Content creation. Look at what it's done to search. When you search something like the best mattresses, you'll get an AI overview. And it has a really profound effect that we're just at the beginning of what that is. AI, you know, is like a traffic killer. I mean, that's known to anybody who works in the digital space. And so you really worry about how to find and deliver audience to your product with AI taking so many of the eyeballs away.

47:03Of course, if you're a content creator, you can't help but wonder what will be the future. Will the audiences just be satisfied with AI? Will they be fine with that? you know, with homes that aren't even real, you know? As always, I'm always eternally optimistic and maybe to a fault, maybe it's foolish and naive, but I'd much prefer that to being negative. Well, that was my next question. What are you hopeful about? So I'm always like, let's just stay, try to stay a couple of steps ahead. I look at, well, what are people responding to? So I have a new book out with Rizzoli. You're in it, Maria.

47:42You know this, that big pink book, that hefty book. and it's 10 years of my favorite people. Beautiful homes. Yes, and it's a piece of our revenue story. But it's more than that. It's a piece of our history. It's a document of great, it's all people in AD and only from my tenure. And it's a celebration of that. And you know what? I do book signings all, I have one in Italy coming up. I was in Charleston, South Carolina last week. You get hundreds of people lining up. AD means something to them. It's touching them. They want you to sign the book. And this is also a piece, it's a piece of your business, you know?

48:19And so I'm always, and events, people love events. And events has become a huge business for Condé Nast. Yes. Vogue World. Yes. Do something in real life. Let people connect and network and maybe move off the computer and stop worrying about AI so much and do it in person, you know? So it's really about just observing people's behavior because I've also learned, you know, you can't change their behavior. If people would rather stream their music, they'd rather stream their music. You can scream and yell about like you've killed the record business, but like this is the technology people have embraced.

48:54And for me, you were asking me about my early days at AD. A lot of people criticized me for putting content for free on the website and particularly on the social media platforms, especially IG, but also Facebook. And I fought back. It wasn't criticism from within the building. It was criticism from outside in the industry. You know, you shouldn't give this away. It should all be in the magazine. People should pay for it. And I thought, no, you can't change audience behavior. You should meet them where they are. If they only want to engage with AD on Instagram or on YouTube, then that's where we're going to engage with them.

49:29There also is a very healthy population of people who only want the magazine. So it's very diversified business is what I would say. If you were wearing a business hat right now. Yeah, always. Always. Because I know there's, I mean, there's so much beauty and there's an incredible art form with what you do, but ultimately running a magazine and being editor of a magazine is all business. How has that changed for you in the last few years? The environment can be challenging. And so the way that you can succeed as we have at AD is that you have to make content that is compelling and that people can't get anywhere else.

50:06I think the kiss of death in our world is if it's okay, the content is mediocre, it's okay, and if it's available everywhere else, I mean, you're just not going to make it. So I'm always focused on making sure that all aspects of AD feel like it's exclusive to us, Not that it's exclusive in the sense of excluding people, but you're not going to see Maria's house except for in AD. It could be on our pages. You could see it on IG. You could see it on YouTube, but we're going to break it. Or Kendall's Mountain House that she kept under wraps that we did in January. And that is a huge piece of being successful in today's environment, which is oversaturated.

50:49There's too much content for people. Too much of it is the same. And you just have to keep being very distinguished in what you're putting out, that it is really unique and really exclusive to your brand. And that's what I always come back to with AD. Was there a time in the last few months where you had a really challenging meeting about revenue and where the state of publications are heading and you really had to face it like it was in front of you? Like, I need to pivot. I need to make decisions that are more media focused or event focused. Yeah. So we're lucky that AD is just like this. It's just like this incredible, it's a legacy brand, but it's such a healthy business.

51:35But yes, you have to pivot. Sometimes you go, you know, we're doing so well in this piece of the business and less well in that piece of the business. What I've had to learn is to not really be afraid to realize that a creative team needs a change. And that's super tough. What does that mean? that you might need some fresh eyes on what you're doing. And that's painful, you know, but it's also necessary to keep, to keep the freshness around the brand, you know, similar to an athlete's career where you can have the same coach for many years, but what you needed when you were 20 years old and when you're 30 is very different, right?

52:13Because in the beginning of your career, you are, you know, you're mostly focused on form and technique and execution. But after years of experience, you don't take that information the same. And most of the time you don't need it. And then you'll have a trainer or a coach that can say the same thing to you, but somehow it hits differently. Yeah. Right. And you need a new perspective. And they could be saying the same thing, but their energy is different. Yeah. The way they communicate it to you is different. And all of a sudden you make an effort to make a change. And you have a breakthrough.

52:46Yes. Letting go of your team is one of the hardest things in business and in sport. And I can imagine it's similar in your industry. It is. It is similar. And if you sort of pride yourself on loyalty and nurturing people, it is a hard it is a hard call. Definitely. But I would say that's something I've had to learn as a leader, too. You might be doing yourself a disservice. You might not be living up to your own potential. In the end, I accept that I'm a creative person and a business person. It's the two together. You have to have both equally to be successful. It's funny you say that because not a lot of talent thinks that way.

53:29Yeah, I do. They're either right brain or left brain. Yeah. But in the modern world, success has to lean into both of those buckets. Yes, definitely. Definitely. I mean, I care so much about the business. I mean, you just, to be viable, you have to care about the business. And I feel that, you know, if AD, if I hadn't come in 10 years ago, well, they would have taken a different tack, but you have to join the digital world. It's the world we live in. And so that's what I've done. But as I've said in this conversation, it keeps changing. The thing that doesn't change as much is the print product.

54:07I mean, we've been making a magazine over 100 years, you know. The people in it change, the width, style, photography, but like it's still delivered on the same platform. But the digital platforms, the audience, the algorithms, they're changing nonstop. That is the most challenging part of the job if you have a digital business. Definitely. And it's the world of unknown. It's the world of unknown. And you have to pivot. You have to be quick. You have to read the data, not cling on to things, and keep engaging. the audience moves on. You've said you dislike the term tastemaker. Yeah. Why is that?

54:46The idea of taste can be sort of a trap a little bit, you know, like good taste, is this good taste? Or like, is this my taste? And it can sort of limit everything, you know? And I really wanted AD to be open to all kinds of people and all kinds of modes of expression and ways of living and not be like stuffy and too caught up in like old fashioned ideas of taste, you know. That said, the magazine reflects my sensibility, but I try to be really open to showing different things. They're not all houses that I would necessarily live in, you know. But I hope that it's all stimulating for people to look at.

55:28Is there such thing as bad taste? I like a little bad taste. I think it's totally fun, you know. I mean. it opens up a conversation yeah it's like art yeah it's also really like old-fashioned and snobby to like judge that way and I don't want to be that way I don't want to be that person at all yeah it is a form of conversation like when you go yeah when you go to an exhibition totally and it is works of art that are just they're hard to yeah understand right an artist had a purpose and had a point of view, you might not connect to it, but you appreciate it. Yeah. Someone that came with you to the exhibitions, like, no way, this is not my thing.

56:11And you speak about it. Yeah. And I've done houses in AD where people have said, oh, I didn't like this house or that house. I don't think they have good taste. I think they have bad taste. And I think, well, that is that person's house and the person is an interesting person. That's why they're in AD. They're an interesting person. It's also not your house, so that's okay. I've said that to people before too, like, well, don't worry, you're not going to be invited over there. So don't worry, you will never. They say, I wouldn't live there. I'm like, well, you don't live there. That's as gossipy as I'm going to be.

56:39That's as gossipy as you're going to be. Yeah, no names. I'm tough, like no names. But honestly, I don't want to be a small-minded person. I'm really trying to answer your question with the taste thing. I don't want to, of course, I have my own taste, my own ideas of what I like in terms of fashion and how you present. But I'm totally, like, totally open to other people. It would be insane to say, look around at how people present and how they dress. Like, why would you say this is bad taste? It just means that you're closed off to what people are doing, you know? The older days of Conde Nast was very specific about taste.

57:11The world has really opened up. I think it's so old-fashioned to be really hung up on ideas of good taste and hung up on, like, I don't know, doing everything the way, like, a grand dame, like Jackie O would do it. She's amazing and had exquisite taste, as did Bunny Melon, as did Babe Paley. But when I was growing up in interior design, people were fixated on these kinds of women, these kinds of tastemakers. And it was a very select group of people who set this standard. And it's too small now. It's like we live in a borderless world. We're in a digital world. Like, you know, we're equally inspired by people in music or people.

57:53It's not it shouldn't just be like a lady on Fifth Avenue. In this old fashioned way of living and that's good taste. You know what I mean? You've said that there's really not much distinction between your work and your personal life. Like there's a lot of it blends in. Yes, my life, my personal life and my work life are just totally blended. How do you pace yourself? I get up early. I work out every day in the morning, every day. But that comes from my ballet training. I want movement every day. Definitely makes me happy. It's definitely like my therapy. It's my same time. Some days are Pilates.

58:33Some days are yoga. Do you work out seven days a week? Yes. How do you do that? But it's not like the way you work out, like those videos of you. It doesn't matter. It's not like that. It doesn't. Committing yourself at five or six in the morning before a 12 hour day in the office is. Well, I love yoga. And then filming this podcast. Yeah. No, I love yoga so much. So yoga for me is like breathing and it's not a trial at all. I mean, I have to make myself not do so much yoga. I can't say the same about yoga. You don't like it. Not that I don't like it. I think just any form of exercise is like, it's a commitment.

59:08Like I am there. I'm there to treat my body and my mind. I know I need it. I know I have to do it. And perhaps because it was such a huge part of my career every single day and a huge part of my identity, I, you know, I'm still holding on to that little piece of identity, which is in a form of movement and making sure that, you know, I feel good in my body. I don't do seven days a week. You're a hero. But some days I can't go. I'm traveling. I'm on an airplane. I have terrible jet lag, you know, and I don't sweat that, you know, like if I'm, if I can't go, I can't go or I'll just do a walk, you know, and I'm happy with that, but that's, and no alcohol.

59:49Really? No. No. I was just going to, I was going to ask you about, but when you're older, you won't want it. I was going to ask you about navigating like social environments. Do you have certain rules to keep you going? No alcohol. That's my rule. That's so tough. No alcohol. I got so used to, I drink sparkling water. I'm totally happy. Everybody knows it. Do you put it in a champagne glass? Sure, whatever. You know, I'll guzzle it. If I really desperately want some champagne or wine, of course I can have it. You know, but I'm such a yogi, to be honest, that it's just really hard to do yoga with alcohol in your system.

1:00:25So the more deeply I got into yoga and you get more in touch with your body, everything you're putting into it, sugar, like all of that stuff. over time, the body becomes less capable of dealing with those substances, which are toxic. It's hard. I know. Especially in a social context where you're unfamiliar with people and you're a little nervous about not knowing everyone in the room and starting - I'm lucky that I don't have that feeling. I will talk to anybody. I know. You're so good at it. No, I'll just talk to anybody. But that's why you're phenomenal at your job. I'll just talk to them about whatever.

1:00:59You know, and ask questions about their life and what they have for breakfast. And by the way, do you have a beautiful home? Yeah. Yeah. It's different when you're a big celebrity and people have a lot of preconceived notions about you, you know, like, and it's, they're intimidated. It's, it's in my role. Like I'm not, most people, I mean, they don't know who I am. They don't care, you know, so I don't feel that I'm leading with anything like that. And people always want to talk about their house or they want to talk about Teen Vogue or I want to talk about them. You've seen like the insides of so many homes.

1:01:34Yes. What is your home like? My house, I live in a really small loft in New York. It's like people I think would be surprised to see it. I've never really shown it or I have never shown it. But it's modest. And I raised my two kids in downtown New York in this small loft. but it's got really nice light and it has a very Japanese feel, which is something I really bonded with you because you talked about Japan when I first came to your house and you had that beautiful tree outside and I felt the spirit and I love that Japanese sensibility so much. We went on a trip to Japan last year and I went there with an empty suitcase.

1:02:16I came back with three full suitcases. It was just the the the shapes, the textures. Yeah. It's minimal, but it has such strong impact. And I know like we share that design aesthetic where it's not about having a lot of pieces, but really collecting and focusing on pieces that you can live with forever no matter you know and our our taste evolves our interest evolves what we like evolves so but I feel like Japanese design and architecture it lasts forever it lasts forever it lasts forever so my loft has a Japanese feel um with also to be honest quite a bit of color and a little bit of a Donald Judd kind of influence.

1:03:06I don't have Judd pieces. I wish I did, but I definitely have some built-ins that are sort of influenced by that style. And I do live with color and tons of books and flowers and all of those things, you know. I'd love to tap into your expertise. Like if I'm visiting New York City, building a house, what are the three design stops that you would suggest? I would suggest going to RW Guild and definitely having a coffee or a breakfast or something at La Mercerie. They have a great crepe there. Yes. I love the crepe. They have a great chef, great female chef. It was founded by a husband-wife duo, Robin Standifer and Stephen Eilish.

1:03:51They're AD100 designers. RW Guild is the shop. They're called Roman and Williams. It's on Canal and Howard, I think. And it is really a great shop and it's a great place to have a coffee and really inspiring environment with incredible flowers. Book a table. Book a table. It's hard to get to. It's hard to get to. And if you can't get a table, you just wander in. You shop and get on their wait list and try to sit down. Sitting at the bar is equally as fun. Fabulous. And what an environment that they created, Robin and Steven. you know I remember when she told me what she wanted to do and I thought oh that sounds great and then she did it but beyond my wildest dreams and that used to be a city bank and then I would say go to Nikki Kehoe which is an LA favorite but now it's open I think it's on West 10th Street yes they have great knobs hooks like little accessories that are well priced yes gifts home things great gifts if you want candles you want dish towels last but not least last but not least i mean i would say maybe to head uptown and go to like krb um kate reinstein brodsky's shop on lexington avenue has a lot of beautiful things i've never been there a little more uptown vibe and she has great stuff great decorative things lacquer it's pretty great it's a wild card yeah krb i would go uptown also go to the frick museum because not only is the museum so beautiful and it's been completely you know redesigned but their gift shop is beautiful i love a gift shop at a museum it's a good gift shop i was just in um in lisbon at the end last year and I was like walking through and I'm like, oh, what books can I buy?

1:05:42Architectural books. And then I see the kids section. Yeah. And even just the clothes were so sweet with these abstract ducks. And so I come home with clothing and my son is like, OK, I'm expecting a toy. I love that. No, no, no. I bought you clothes at the museum. I totally love that. I went to a new shop in Charleston when I was there last week for a book signing called Wentworth. I definitely recommend a trip to Wentworth if you're in Charleston. And since we're getting our podcast off the ground, creating the studio, what do you think? This looks really pretty. Is it all rove? Is it from your line?

1:06:17The chairs are rove. The little coffee table's rove. This I recognize. All rove from your line. I mean, I hate to use the word taste, but you have great taste. You have great style, really, is what I prefer to say. A great vision. I think it looks great. You used the word sensibility at the beginning. I like that word. I like it better. When you speak about architecture. I like sensibility better.

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1:08:04Okay. What is something that you've had to unlearn? That you have to be super, super nice to everybody, but also that, honestly, that everybody's going to love you and like you and be in your corner and root for you. You know, when you're growing up, especially if you have a great family, which I did, you know, you are predisposed. I'm polite and I'm friendly to everybody. Why isn't it working out with this person? And it took me so long to understand. It almost took me having my own children and talking to them to understand not everybody's rooting for you. Usually people just aren't thinking about you, and that's another lesson.

1:08:50But to kind of wise up and realize not everybody's on your side, and that's okay. And not everyone has the capacity to be on anyone's side. No, don't expect it. in their life. Yeah. It's not automatic. Exactly. It's not automatic and it's not a given. You know, you're not the center of the universe. What's a routine that's helped shape your success? Exercise because of the discipline and the mental clarity it's given me and the joy. Definitely exercise number one, which is movement. To me, it's movement. Comes out of my ballet background. Also, I start every morning. I read the newspaper. I actually read the New York Times every day and sometimes it takes the whole day to get through it.

1:09:32but I never regret it. I learn so much. Um, and I want to be aware of what's going on in the world in a big, big way. And things that I read, yeah, I read things every day that I'm thinking about because I'm a people person because I'm a storyteller and the times I read other papers too, but that's been a fundamental thing. And actually something Anna and I bonded on too, because she loves the news and we would talk about the news even when I was young at Vogue. And just being aware of the world and the rotations and the different industries and not just being single-minded on what you have to do.

1:10:12I just find those. And I also make the bed every morning, even in a hotel. It gives me a sense of completion that things are tidy. It's ready. What is a common misconception about you? Well, people always say, oh, you're so nice. You're so nice. And I do appreciate that. You know, I absolutely, I hope, I think that I'm nice and I was trained in the Midwest as a dutiful daughter to be nice. But, you know, you don't want that to be the whole expression of you, you know. And I think sometimes people can misunderstand that you can be nice and make other people feel good and leave a trail of people behind you who feel good, but still succeed.

1:10:53You know, that to me, that's more the message is you don't have to be harsh on other people to also succeed. And you don't have to choose one or the other. You don't have to be nice and, you know, tough. Yeah. Right. There's a time for each. You can meld it. What's your relationship to perfection? I think I'm very susceptible to the idea of perfection. I'm very susceptible to the idea of perfection. And I'm very, I'm susceptible to beauty. So that's, I think. Sounds like a warning. Yes. And so I always am thinking, how can this be more beautiful? Whether it's certainly the work I'm presenting, which is all about beauty, or when I was a dancer, I was very rough on myself, on my physical capabilities.

1:11:42And I was a dutiful daughter, right? And like a straight A student and all that stuff. So there was a strong element of perfectionism for me. But I've just learned to let go a lot with age, a lot, and just say I've done the best I can. And this is how it's going to be. And also all the things that I can't do. Take it or leave it. Yeah, like I don't cook. I'm like, I really can't cook. And everybody loves cooking so much. But you order well. Yes, everybody talks about food and cooking. And I'm like, I just can't, you know, just knowing my limits too. I'm like, I'm not going to be a good cook. And since the podcast is named Pretty Tough, what is something that makes you feel tough?

1:12:26I will honestly say that my yoga practice, my movement practice makes me feel tough because it makes me feel really powerful and really strong, you know, which I know you can relate to as an athlete. And the mind-body connection for me is really fascinating, really important. The idea when you're a dancer is to control every muscle. and I have found in yoga that that applies. So I feel both pretty and tough in a good athletic yoga practice because pretty for me has nothing to do with hair and makeup. I've had my hair and makeup done 3 ,000 times or 10 ,000 times in my life. I just want to be presentable and not scare people.

1:13:09That's where I was going next. Yeah, pretty has nothing to do. What makes you feel pretty? Pretty, it makes me feel pretty when I feel powerful. and I guess tough, but when I feel my power, I feel that I'm at my best. And I tend to feel that most with the movement. And I'm not really fixated that much on like my actual appearance, you know. I've loved interviewing women and asking this question because a lot of times women feel the most powerful and the most beautiful when they are raw and when they are themselves and when they're not trying to prove something, when they're just being themselves.

1:13:47I agree, because after all, hair and makeup and clothing are wonderful things that can bring so much joy to your life, creative expression, and I think how you present to the outer world is really important. Elevated version of yourself. Yes, but it's still some armor. Yes, and you have to be comfortable with your foundation. You do, but it's still your armor that you're presenting to the outside world, you know. So for me, like in a really good yoga class, it's always a hot yoga class. You're sweating. Like there's no makeup. I can't believe you do that. I do that. There's no makeup. It's not about your hair.

1:14:17You know, you don't, it's not about. There's no waterproof mascara that can work. And it's not about your set. I mean, some of the girls look so cute in their set, but I don't. But it's really more of a, it's a much more deep and profound feeling of feeling powerful, strong. I mean, pretty is a word like that makes me feel connected. Yeah. And fulfilled, you know, fulfilled as a person, you know. Well, that was a very strong ending. Thank you, Amy. You're the best.

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