Christine Dorfler: From Army Captain to the NFL’s CFO

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1:25dot com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Those situations of being humble, knowing what you don't know, having to learn it, quickly getting up to speed, those situations built confidence. And that's why I say confidence and humility, because it's going into a new situation with full acknowledgement that you don't know what you don't know, but with confidence that you can learn it and you're going to learn it. And then I feel like every one of those situations then is another building block in developing that confidence and going to the next situation.

2:04What happens when opportunity comes knocking and you're not quite ready for it? That's what happened with my guest today. Christine Dorfler is the chief financial officer of the NFL, a company so successful that it's taken over a whole day of the week. But before she was balancing the books for the Super Bowl, managing the expectations and egos of billionaire owners, and reporting directly to the great Roger Goodell, she was a college athlete, an army captain, and a rising star working her way up the ranks at NBC. The first time I heard Christine speak, I was struck by her blend of confidence and humility.

2:40She comes off as smart and poised, but without forcing it. Christine and I talk about the experience of being a female executive for a business that is, in many ways, the epitome of a boys club. She also gives us tips on the art of negotiation and her takes on gambling and prediction markets in sports. And yes, of course, we talk about Taylor Swift. I'm Maria Sharapova, and this is Pretty Tough.

3:13Christine, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me. This is such an honor, honor to meet you. Thrilled to be here, thrilled for the conversation. So I like to begin these segments with a quote, playing D1 lacrosse at Villanova. And you said, one of the great things about sport is that it teaches you how to lose. What does it mean to you, the term actually losing? So losing to me, I think it's my appreciation for that term has evolved over the years. Certainly when I was younger and playing sports, losing was a negative. And nobody ever wanted to go out on the field and lose.

3:49But as I've sort of transitioned from the military into the business world, I think what losing has meant to me is it's an opportunity to learn. and nobody likes to lose, but, you know, sort of coming at it with the perspective of it's inevitable and what can you learn from it? How can you pick yourself up? And to me, that builds resilience and it builds strength. And, and that's, that to me is a real positive because those are traits, you know, now older and more seasoned in my career. When I look at young people, I tell them like, you got to build the grit, the strength, the resilience. And a lot of that development comes from figuring out how to lose and pick yourself back up.

4:27Yeah, I often say, I don't know if it's relatable to your career, but I often think that in times when you're losing or you're not doing your best work is when you are scrappy and you end up being the best version of yourself because you're trying to find a way toward victory. Yeah, yeah. I like to say learn to lose without getting defeated, right? Because you lose, you pick yourself back up, you learn, you move on without sort of falling into the defeat mode and that sort of mindset, which is never good. Right. So let's get into your path to the NFL. I know that being an athlete had such a huge influence, but you've also often cited your time in the Army, four years being a captain at just 22 years old.

5:09That is so significant. If I were to ask one of your subordinates what you were like as a leader back then, what do you think they'd say? I think they'd say I was humble. but also confident. I think whenever people ask about my leadership style, that's the way I think about it and the way I think has worked for me. I think leadership style is personal and it's what works for you and what is effective for you. But I think my subordinates would say she's someone who listened and learned and was always willing to learn and stayed humble in the process. Even at 22? Even at 22. The thing about the military, And it is such a phenomenal place to develop leadership because as a young officer, you're thrust into the situation where you're put in charge of people who have 20 years of experience with it at 22 years old.

6:00If that's not humbling, you're not doing it right, right? So the only way to be an effective leader is to listen and to say, tell me about what you do, how you do it, and to develop a relationship both on a personal basis and really get to know people and their families. Military families go through so much struggle and sacrifice and to really understand what they're going through, but then also to learn. And so there's a humility that comes out of that, but also a confidence. A strength. A strength. A personal strength that evolves. Exactly. You know, I've changed jobs so many times over my career and I've had to say, OK, I got to go into this knowing that I don't know what I don't know, but I have the confidence to figure out how to how to learn it.

6:43And the confidence of asking for help. I remember I took a summer course at Harvard Business School while I was injured for a few months and I went into the classroom and just I felt like a complete idiot in front of just so many smart people. And when I gained the confidence to raise my hand and ask a question and not have the answer, I felt like a lightness about me. Like, okay, that's okay. It's okay not to know everything. Right, right. And it builds rapport with people around you because it's genuine and authentic. And it brings your guard down. It does. It totally does. And nine times out of ten when you ask a question, someone else is like, oh, my gosh, thank God she asked that.

7:21I was thinking the same thing. I just want to say it. So it just it builds that sort of authentic relationship, I think, with people around you as well. So after the military, you go on to spend 16 years finance roles at NBC before moving to sports. And at one point you had talked about a major promotion that you didn't feel quite ready for. I'd love for you to talk about that. Yeah. So I was on maternity leave with my third child and debating whether I was even going to go back to work. I just, I was, my brain felt foggy. I mean, after one, I was like, I don't know when work is ever going to come to my life.

8:00I can't imagine what it's like after three. You know, I had a toddler at home and a seven-year-old at home and a newborn. And I was just like, I wasn't even sure how to put on my clothes in the morning, let alone thinking about my career. And it was at a time when there was a change in parent company control at the company I work for. And there was a shuffle at work and in terms of leadership and a new president of the division who was then looking for a new CFO. And so my boss at the time called me and said, Christine, you have to go interview with this person. Like you have to. Now you're pumping milk.

8:37Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Throwing a toy over to your toddler. Yeah, I'm really ready for a CFO position. I said, Michael, like, I can't even add simple math right now, let alone go interview for a CFO job with someone I've never met who came in from the outside. And he, you know, to his credit, it was a career moment because he called me back two or three times. And he said, Christine, you just go meet with her. We sat down for two hours. At that point, I had to go pump. Right. Of course. You know the drill. And but but we had a great conversation and and I was so happy that I went and I went in sort of not feeling 100 percent prepared, but willing to show up and have the conversation.

9:24And that was a pivotal moment in my career. I know that I would not be in this role if I had not shown up, even when I didn't feel quite ready. And I think from a career perspective, you know, if you're waiting for the stars to align and tell you it's the perfect moment to make a move, it's never going to happen. And getting an offer when you least expecting it is a really good problem to have. Yeah. But it's so stressful. I mean, is there advice for someone that's in that position to take on a role when they're not quite ready for that challenge? I think just give yourself grace and accept imperfection and, you know, just, you know, sort of approach things with you don't have to have all the answers, but show up and listen and learn.

10:11And, you know, there's no harm in a conversation. You know, anytime you just have to think about what is the downside of this? What is the downside of having a conversation? What is the downside of, you know, sort of putting myself out there even though I don't feel 100 % ready? Most of the time, there's more upside than downside. And just acknowledging that someone is believing in you and someone is giving you the opportunity and putting you in a position, even though you might not have all the answers today, but is allowing you to take chances and perhaps win in the future. Right. And I've learned over the course of my career as well that, you know, I'm in a finance role.

10:46So it's numbers and math and analysis and everything else like that. But, you know, at the same time, I think what matters the most is more the EQ side of things and the relationship building and the leadership qualities and the communication. And I think people take that for granted in business sometimes, but it's incredibly important. And I think a real differentiator, particularly as you get to the more senior levels in the C-suite levels, it becomes that sort of style and approach and it becomes incredibly important. And is there ever a scenario where the right answer is a no? Yes. Yeah. I think there's often scenarios like that, particularly in my role as a CFO.

11:27you often get faced with economic decisions. And whether it's, you know, taking a higher offer, even though it might not be the right strategic thing, the answer is always going to be a no, right? You have to think about what is the right thing for the NFL? What is the right thing for the business from a long-term perspective, not a short-term perspective? Well, it seems like the common practice, it seems like the right thing to do, but that's not always the choice that people make. Right. Right. Because oftentimes money wins and you find yourself in a position that's not favorable to your lifestyle or your family or your life or your future.

11:57Yeah, exactly. So you become the CFO of NBC Sports. It's 2019. Take me back to that time. Did you feel like there was a lot on the line and you had something to prove? I did. I did. You know, sports, I grew up loving sports and playing sports. And I was so excited when the opportunity to work in a sports business came about because I felt like it just combined this area, this industry that I was so passionate about as a fan, as a former athlete, but also with sort of what I had trained to do and what I had been doing from a business perspective, I felt like it was a huge opportunity. I felt like it was a moment.

12:37I felt like I had to prove myself, particularly at the senior levels. It's mostly men and not as many women. We're going to get to that. That even fueled my fire more. That is a conversation I want to dive into. But that made me really want to prove myself and do a great job. One of the striking things about your career at NBC is it was over 20 years. And that is not very common, especially in today's world. What are the positives of staying with a company? I think the positives are developing credibility and relationships and trust within the organization and really knowing most big companies are matrixed and they're tough to navigate and tough to figure out how to get things done and to impact change.

13:23But if you're there a while, you learn how to do that faster. What I always found during the course of my career was when the same problems start to get on your nerves, it might be time to go. Maybe it's time for someone with fresh perspective to come in and look at things a little bit differently. So you just get that feeling in your gut that says, yeah, that intuition that says, yeah, it might be time for change now. Right. Yeah. What advice would you give that someone that is young and ambitious and is looking to work their way up the ladder in their company? I would say be a relentless learner.

13:59And there are a lot of different forms of learning, you know, that could be from mentorship and really trying to find people who are great mentors to you and then paying it forward to other people. That could be through podcasts and listening and learning and developing leadership style and using that to sort of shape and form. It could be industry learning or reading or courses that you take, but be a relentless learner no matter where you are. My mom was an elementary school teacher and she's turning 80 this year and she is a relentless learner. She is constantly taking courses and lifelong education and listening to podcasts and doing all the things to constantly improve herself.

14:40And that, I think, is what I would tell young people, just be a relentless learner. And do you feel that that growth applies differently for women than men within a company moving up the ladder? I think that gap has really closed quite a bit, I would say. But sometimes I think it's industry specific. There are certain industries where... Are more favorable. Are more favorable. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. than others. Or whereas as a young woman, you might see a path to the highest levels of the organization. But I think over the course of at least my 20, 25 year career, things have gotten a lot better.

15:19You see a lot more women across many industries on Fortune 100, Fortune 50 boards, certainly a lot more representation than years past. We're still not quite there, but we're little stuff baby stuff yeah gotta keep keep one foot in front of you right yeah I want to hear how you landed the NFL job um from what I'd understand you've been negotiating media deals for several years on the other side at NBC what made you cross over when I learned about the NFL opportunity I'm I'm just such a fan of such a personal fan of the game um such a fan of everything the NFL has accomplished over its 106 year history of the cultural relevance that it has today.

16:08And it just seemed it seemed like an amazing next step. And just, again, allowed me to stay in sports and sort of marry things that I love. So it was it was like a dream job in front of me. And then it was like, oh, my gosh, this is probably a long shot. I bet a million people want this job. But I would be really remiss if I didn't take a shot. Didn't take it. Yeah. So it was incredible to lean into something that you're a fan of from the beginning. Yeah. And then get in the weeds of it and just continue your knowledge and growth. You report directly to Roger Goodell. Yes. Legendary NFL commissioner.

16:46And I recently read an article, and I'm sure there are plenty of articles about him. But there was one about his leadership style. And he said, making sure that people never get comfortable. Does this ring true to your style? Yeah, I think one of the things I admire so much about Roger and so much about really the whole leadership team at the NFL is there's such a respect for the tradition of the game. You know, again, 106th season we just finished and, you know, such a rich history and such a prominent place in American culture. But there's also, I'll use the word relentless again, there's this relentless focus on innovation and how to respect that tradition and preserve that tradition, but also continuously make the game better or the business better.

17:36Is that through technology? I think it's through everything. It's through, you know, it's through technology and making the game better and faster and more accurate, whether that's officiating or the speed of the game, whether that's experiences in stadium for the fans who are there in person or media technology with our media partners so that the viewing experience is better. but then that's also rule changes and you know both from a health and safety perspective and also from from an excitement perspective like our dynamic kickoff rule and sort of changing the game to make it more exciting and more competitive and higher score so there is a respect for that tradition and the place and and a real pride in in the role that the the NFL plays in in our society but also this constant focus on how can we do better?

18:28Yep. And how can we do better to serve our fans? Why is it personally the dream job for you? Well, history with sport, your love of football? All of the above, but I think also impact. One of the things I've really enjoyed over the three years, three seasons I've had at the NFL is it's a place where I really feel like I can have an impact. and that is exciting. Also, my kids kind of think it's cool. That always helps. That is brownie points. That is brownie points at home, right? And they're like, oh my gosh, mom, boring finance job. And they're like, but she worked for the NFL and I get to go to the Super Bowl.

19:10So that's kind of cool. I mean, that was my next question. Like the NFL and corporate finances. I mean, if you think about those two, It's like the ultimate boys club. As a woman, how do you find your role within that? I mean, first of all, there are a lot of other women executives at the NFL. I mean, credit to Roger and to the NFL for, I think, really being intentional, I think, is probably the right word about making sure that the leadership team is represented by females and by different diversity and perspective, because that's what our fans are, right? This surprises most people, but nearly 40 % of NFL viewership is female.

19:55What was it before Taylor's effect? That's a good question. I don't know that number. Taylor definitely was very positive. Taylor Swift has made an impact. Amazing. Yes, amazing. I'd love to hear the impact through your It was early on to my time at the NFL when it was reported that they were dating. And, you know, I can just describe it as incredible momentum, right? There was just this momentum and excitement, certainly in Kansas City, but I think across the NFL that, oh, my gosh, there's Taylor in the box at the games. And there was a lot of dialogue around media coverage and how often Taylor was shown in the box.

20:37But, you know, from my perspective, it was just this incredible way to engage a young female audience. And girls who maybe had never gone to an NFL game with their father or never watched an NFL game with their mother, all of a sudden they're fans. And they're wearing KC jerseys and they're showing up and they're active and they're, you know, posting. Then they know what a touchdown is. Absolutely. And so it was just this, I thought this way for parents to engage in a dialogue about football with their kids, particularly girls who may not have gone to games anymore. But it definitely, you know, I don't have the statistics, but in Kansas City, it definitely changed the demographic of their audience in the stadium.

21:22From a media perspective, it definitely changed the viewership demographics. And, you know, from a CFO perspective, I mean, it did a ton of free marketing for us. I didn't have to spend that money. Yeah, exactly. No, but really just, especially as a female who grew up loving sports and playing sports, like to just see that excitement was great. And also seeing, I guess also seeing a female make that type of impact. Yeah. And a male dominated sport. Right, right. From my perspective, nothing but positive. Just tremendous. And bringing in new viewers and fans. What could be better? Younger audience.

22:03Younger audience. More girl dads and the young girls and teenage girls coming to the games, especially in KC. Amazing. Really amazing. So we want more of that. The girls are finally like, Dad, I want to come with you. Yeah, we want more of that. But that surprises a lot of people. Once you get them in and then they see the resilience of the sport and the lessons that they learn, they also see the entertainment factor. Then they start getting competitive because their friends have other teams that they're rooting for. And we are we one of our biggest initiatives right now, which I find so exciting, is is flag football and girls, girls flag football at the youth, the high school, the college and now the professional level.

22:44And it'll be an Olympic sport for girls, professional flag. So that is incredible, and it's exciting to be a part of, you know, I would have loved to have played flag football when I was growing up, and it's just so exciting that girls have the opportunity now. With flag football, do you think there potentially will be women, female flag football stars in the future? Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. How many years down the line? Soon. I think soon because, you know, there'll be— Is that the Olympic effect? It'll be the Olympic effect, but it'll also be the college effect. You know, we all of a sudden now have D1 schools.

23:20University of Nebraska is one of them that is out there with D1 women's flag. And you think about the movement in women's sports now, especially at the collegiate level and household names. And so I hope sooner than a few years. And then L.A. 28, we'll have a women's Olympic team. The game is exciting. It's athletic. It's fast paced. But not as dangerous. Yeah, but not as dangerous. Yeah, there's a lower barrier to entry with flag, which is, you know, is exciting, especially at the youth level, because you can just, you know, you can you can play just with a field and a flag kit. It's not potentially not get tackled as you would not get tackled and injured.

24:01Potentially. And not and not a lot of equipment necessary. So I think it's great. It's great from that standpoint. So that's that's been a really exciting thing to be a part of. And to see that evolution and growth. Yeah. More footballs and more hands and girls hands finally. So it's great. So I want to talk to you about the art of negotiation. That's where I feel like you are just excelling at. And you've been part of some incredible groundbreaking media deals. You also run the league's venture capital firm. First of all, how did you get good at that? a lot of years of experience and a lot of trial and error, right?

24:36We talked about losing at the beginning, a lot of making mistakes and figuring out what I would do better the next time and being intentional about learning from those mistakes and documenting those mistakes and then saying, okay, what can I do better the next time? And I think part of the art of negotiation is doing more listening than talking. And I learned that over the course of time, but my come natural to you? No, no, no. I think because, you know, as a, as it growing up as a finance person and a math person, you, there's always an answer, right? Math problems always have a solution, right?

25:15And so is it like, that's, that inherent was like, I have to have the answer. Yeah. But in negotiations, you don't always have to have the answer. And I think sometimes there's more strength and power in staying silent. And so that was a hard skill for me to learn. And I definitely fumbled a few times, to use it for all reference. I definitely fumbled a few times in that, but I think that that allowed for learning too. Is that a common mistake that you see people make as you're at the table, always trying to have an answer? All the time. All the And if there's a tactic for someone, you know, in the final stages of a deal, what would you tell them?

25:54Patience. Yeah, patience. There's a quiet strength, I think, that comes with being patient and not too eager. Because if you're too eager, I think that, you know, sometimes that can be seen as there's leverage on the other side there. So I think patience and doing, again, more listening than talking. Is there a particular deal that you're especially proud of? I know there's been many. Yes. Is there one that you often reflect on? Yeah. I mean, I would say maybe because this might be a little recency bias, but we just closed a sale of some of our linear, like the NFL Network and the linear Red Zone Channel to ESPN.

26:35And that had started many years before I got to the NFL, but it was the first, I would say it was the first major deal that I was sort of a part of in a meaningful way and really felt like I had impact on. And so I was really proud of the team. We worked really hard. It was, I think it's a great deal for our fans. Certainly a great economic deal. And it's with one of our media partners in ESPN and Disney. And it puts NFL content on this broader platform for more fans and leverages the technology and capabilities and innovation of the Disney company. And so it's just it was exciting. And I think also just a really great outcome that was a win for both sides.