Milk Bar Founder Christina Tosi on Building, Burnout and Resetting

28:13Like, what are you interested in? What makes you happy? What brings you that little spark of joy? Even if it's hard. Oh, don't. The hard is not part of the equation. You're just in like, what makes you like, just pay attention. Second part is just so you know, it's going to be hard. Anything in life worth going after is going to be hard. Hard is part of the joy equation, don't you think? I, yes. If you just woke up. I lived it. Yeah. Literally, I mean, I know. Some of my joyful moments came from pain and injuries and losses and all the lessons that, you know, contribute to one victory, by the way, just sometimes one.

28:55Because how would victory feel if it wasn't hard to achieve? Like the whole point is mind over matter. Like that is part, heart is part of the joy equation. So if you have heart in your brain, one, what I might say to you is like, oh my God, that's great. What is it that you're worried about that you want to do that's so hard? That might actually be exactly what needs to happen. But also if you don't love the idea of whatever that joyful thing is, like early in the morning, long before anyone else wakes up, late at night, long after everyone goes to bed, I'm talking nights, weekends. You're not going to any family function.

29:32There's no weddings. There's no anything. If that's the thing that you're still like, yes, I still want to do it. That's it. Cannonball. There's your answer. Like plug your nose and tuck your knees and go for it. So you're running Milk Bar and your inventions become these full on crazes. You've got cereal milk ice cream. You've got cakes without side frosting. I'd say that's scandalous, Christina. They call them naked cakes now, Maria. I don't know who came up with the term, but I think it's hilarious. You've got compost cookies. Like, how important was the official culinary training to get to that point of experimentation and doing things that are out of the box?

30:20For me, it was essential. I mean, I think everyone has their own journey. I'm the type of person that loves to learn and I love to learn in a formal setting. Certainly at that point I did. I had to learn from my bad bosses, learn from my great bosses, learn from fine dining French cuisine, learn from an amazing Austrian pastry chef, learn from a molecular gastronomist, right? I had to learn from my grandmas. Like I had to learn from all of them to understand where I fit in and what my contribution was, how I saw the world, how the world looked through these eyes, everything about it was important.

31:00I think also like remembering to protect the like nostalgia in me, like how do you come up with cereal milk if you don't protect the like mornings as a kid where you could like bottoms up slurp the bowl? We call it fancy cereal. Fancy cereal is allotted on weekends only in my house. But like Like if you don't know what the, you know, the flavor of like milk that's been sopping up golden grams or Captain Crunch or Frosted Flakes, you know, or Lucky Charms. Yummy, I'm hungry just listening to you. And like being a, being a like nostalgist in that way, like knowing yourself and protecting those parts of you, no matter what else was happening in your life otherwise.

31:44So for me, I think about it like this. every day. I wish I could say it happens every day in my life now, but for these moments, especially, and when I'm looking for grounding, I remember myself like you've been training for this moment your entire life. It's not what you've been training for, for the last 10 years or 20 years in like pastry world. It's like, you've been training for this moment, this dilemma, this hurdle, or this success. You've been training for it your entire life. So like pull, Pull from all the different ways and places that you know yourself. Like that is your answer. We say that often.

32:20Like one, limitation breeds the highest form of innovation. But also the answer is always somewhere in this room. It's just about remembering to be human enough to know it. And is it also a bit of trust of just trusting that decision and going with it and not second guessing? For sure. Yeah. A hundred percent. It's like, how do you quiet any other voice that might be popping up into your head or coming out? I mean, what is it like, Maria, to be the champion that you are and stand on that court? What literally what dialogue comes up? Because it's I can't imagine that it's always like you got this girl.

33:00No, you got this. You're a champion. Snatch it. It is so up and down. I mean, within just one match, within 60 to 90 minutes, you can have some of the greatest thoughts and you can have a little devil in that head that just keeps telling you you can't do it. And then you're like, no, no, no, but I just did. I just I just overcame you. And now you're back. It's just it's a constant push and pull. What's your secret? Like, how do you know? Well, I don't play anymore. I know, but like, how do you know? Because I imagine you apply it every day. It's motherhood. I mean, a four-year-old little boy, girl, that's, you know what it's like.

33:40I thought you got spicier than a grand slip, you know, like, how do you do it in your, how did you do it then? It's a loaded question. How do you do it now? I was prepared to ask you the questions. I love that you're throwing it back at me. I always remembered that it's not about the first point or the first game or what you say or do in the beginning, but it's the entire journey. So it could be the length of the match or it could be the length of the tournament. And things happen fast, especially in sport. And you can have a great moment and you can be confident and you can be prepared and you're surprised by the outcome when it doesn't go your way.

34:21but I often flip that script because I would come in feeling like I'm just coming off an injury. I haven't played a lot of matches. You know, I'm not feeling my best. I don't know if my body's going to withstand like the physicality of these matches and the grind day in, day out. And you surprise yourself. And part of that is letting go and trusting the process. Because doubts are part of any profession. They come in and out. but you just have to trust it. It's not about the beginning. It's not about just one event. It's the marathon and finding, finding the process joyful. Like I love practicing because I got to like huddle with my team and, you know, even the water breaks, people joke like, oh, you love the water breaks.

35:10No shit. It's the easiest part, but I love the water breaks because I would have these few minutes with my dad where it would be almost philosophical, where it wasn't about technique, it wasn't about rhythm or what you have to do on the court. It was just zooming out of the intensity of one profession and being like, I can do this. I believe in myself. I have someone that's watched me grow up that is supporting me. Look how far we have come. We didn't come here because we didn't try because you know we didn't follow our instinct we might be in a rough patch but like we're gonna get through this and to have someone that believes in you like on on your side is really special and then you go out and you keep practicing and you know you still have tough moments but you overcome and I look back to those moments of you know with my coaches or my team members because on the official stadium you're on you're there on your own but in the moments that no one sees, you're there with your team.

36:17And those are, those are what really makes it. Like your grounding moments. Yeah, they really were. It's the stuff you don't see. It's the stuff that you don't see.

36:33I'm Phoebe Judge. And for more than a decade, I've hosted the podcast Criminal, telling stories about people who've done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle. But while I was starting one of the very first true crime podcasts out there, I was also taking phone calls from my sister from prison. This fall, I'm going on tour and I'm telling a story I've never told before. My own. Get tickets at thisiscriminal.com slash live.

37:05so it's one thing to wear a chef's hat and it's another thing to wear a business hat how did you learn through this process of baking and working with dave and the restaurant to turn your hobby into a business i mean i learned one day at a time like i i i have the financial acumen because of my mom as an accountant, but like she taught me how to balance a checkbook, not how to create a business plan of which, by the way, we still don't have one. I mean, we have strategy and now because we're, you know, we're like a business that has to take themselves a little seriously, but not not seriously, seriously.

37:51I learned one day at a time. I think that's like another bit about life is maybe it's one day at a time. It's one day at a time and you stack up the days and they total something right it is no one's learning anything overnight no one's expecting you to become anything overnight but it's one day it's one challenge it's one late night at a time and maybe it's many late nights stacked up but one day at a time and I I have had to move like the dream the goalposts of the dream further and further because as you get close to nearing a goal I imagine the same for you you have to start you have to learn how to dream bigger and dream bigger and with those dreams come responsibilities and to your point hats you're gonna have to learn how to wear um and I think along the way part of part of I know the secret to myself is mastering myself is I have to trick myself into doing things whether that's like tricking myself into like not eating dessert at every meal tricking myself into to learning how to do payroll and being excited about doing payroll.

39:01I mean, I don't do payroll anymore. Somebody else does. So is it getting excited about things that are just not like happy or joyful or not full of sugar? For me, it was like, what's your carrot? And it's like, oh my gosh, well, it's the same like bad boss mentality of like, what is like the inner dialogue here? And it's like payroll. I was like, right. I mean, I literally would bring a three pack of truffles to my desk to do payroll on my team like just set an hour and a half for this call because if if I don't answer to this email it's because I'm I'm internally ignoring it it's like momentum right so like how do you trick yourself into being the person that you want to be but the other voices aren't going to let you or for payroll I'd be like but you want to know what Christina like girl you have a business where people are on payroll and there is health insurance and vision and 401k and they can count on you you remember when you work jobs where you didn't even know if you were gonna get paid that week not because you didn't work but because right of like don't let the voice in your head I think again we think like so much of it is like the mental grit right of like how do you be strong and sharp with your own brain but um that's a lot of it and it's the it's the it's one day at a time and like one day is never too precious for a high or a low right like don't believe your own hype in a day and the low of a day does not define tomorrow sort of thing it's asking for help it's being resourceful for the longest time I would um I demanded of myself to work the job whether that was human resources or ops or the delivery driver So you went in and worked yourself?

40:44Pick, pack, ship person. Yeah. Like the second we thought we needed a new function, I'd be like, okay, well, I want to understand what the function is. What is it like to work this job? What are the highs and the lows? What kind of personality would it take? Go back to everything and everything. Et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. And then how do I find someone that can be better than me at it? It's another great lesson. And in that finding someone that's better than me at it, it's also the not just someone that is better at the tactical function, but also the like, who are you going to be obsessed being in the trenches with?

41:18Celebrating the highs and being in the trenches on the hard days and lows with. So like figuring out how to build from there. But these are all like little, again, like you've been training for this moment your whole life. Like, okay. And you're still training. A hundred percent. It's not like there's a peak. A hundred percent. Things evolve. It is a constant learning, constant improvement process. You got to start somewhere. You can't ignore the problems and just give it a go one day at a time. And you were at the time also primarily focused on hiring women in leadership positions. Why was that important to you?

41:58I just knew firsthand how hard it was to get hired, to get a job, to have someone believe in you. Right. Like not that the people that I worked for prior didn't believe in women, but I had girl, it wasn't just getting a foot in a door. Like I had to put my whole body in the door jam just to like get in. And then I had to prove my worth. And I think the proving part is a really fun part of the climb just to be super clear. Um, but I loved the idea of a one. I know how smart and brilliant humans are. I definitely know how smart and brilliant women are. I know how tough they are. I know how driven they are.

42:35And I thought, well, this is a secret that maybe other people don't know yet. And I'm going to leverage it to my freaking advantage. And we have like a superstar team. I have like goosebumps on my arms thinking about it. I mean, as you're saying this, this is more than 10 years ago. Yeah. I'll start to tear up right now for you. This was not part of the conversation when you were giving women the leadership platform. It wasn't because of social pressure. It was because it was a personal experience of your own identity and finding your own space and rooms where you belonged. Yes. And recognizing that there are unique and special women that deserve the space and you gave it to them.

43:19I'm also very grateful. Like as much as I found my people, like as much as you find your people and that's your responsibility, your people will also find you. I wanted to talk to you about scaling because we all know that scaling is a creativity killer, especially in your business where you are so focused on a single serving, one item. And when you think about mass production and losing quality, I mean, is that something that you lost sleep over? I lose sleep over every single day. To this day. I mean, I lost sleep over it though, even on day one, right? Of like, am I gonna trust somebody else to mix the compost cookie today?

44:08And the answer had to be yes, because I couldn't do everything myself. Part of it is this sort of like the dimension and the tension of needing to ask for help and train and trust. You gotta choose your partners really, really carefully. But you are right. Scale is infamously known as a creativity killer. And so I would dare say we spend half, if not the majority of our time going, how do we put our blind? Also just today, being a human in the world, there's so much distraction. There's so much this and that, and look over here, how do we put our blinders on and how do we stay creative and uniquely who we are in a world where scale is a pressure point, where cost of living, making money, being able to be the place that you want to work and support and spend your time is a thing and where innovation and creativity and copycats, like it's just a cacophony of worry and hardship.

45:07How do we put on our blinders and show up as we are, who we are in this brilliant universe that we've created? and I do not have any of the answers, but I have some things that have worked for us that we're going to keep doing and I have some things that haven't worked for us that we're going to stop doing and we have some really great ideas about what we're going to start doing and I think this is bringing anything to life or being like, I'm going to be bold enough to say the thing out loud and go out and get it even though the odds are not in my favor. And with that, occasionally comes failure and I feel like I'm sitting across someone that has a healthy relationship with failure and failing forward and acknowledging that in your profession.

45:50Is there an example that you can share with us where in the moment you're like, I lost. We talk about this all the time, right? Like if you're not taking risks, you're not failing. And if you're not failing, you have no opportunity to win. You have no opportunity to win if you haven't put yourself out there. um okay favorite failure that doesn't sound so many well one that i thought like one that i was like super duper duper convicted i don't think we had raised any money i don't think we had anything we were just bootstrapping it from the proceeds from our next blah blah blah and i had this incredibly um courageous insightful passionate team and i was like okay guys i've got it figured it out.

46:41We, this was in the time where green juice had just started taking off where like cycling or like, like soul cycle cycling, like, right. We all live in New York city, like this sort of like the very beginning of this, like healthy lifestyle and being a little bit more attuned and aware to it. And what I would find in our offices and in myself regularly is we're crushing like, you know, we're crushing, um, a milk bar pie and we're crushing all these new dessert formats for the upcoming winter holiday. And then for like midday breakfast, and then we would go out and like crush a green juice and then be like, okay, tomorrow I'm going to whatever, go and sweat my face off at, at this course.

47:29And I was like, you know, you want to know what? It's crazy that we would see it in our customers. They would go and get their local juice or their salad and then come in and get their dessert, right? They're all forms of self-care. People don't realize dessert is a form of self-care. It very much is. Oh, you're not talking to the right person. We're going to look out this way, right? And I was like, well, this is crazy. Someone shouldn't have to go to two places to get the delicious things that they want to put in their body, even though they feel like yin and yang. So I was like, we're going to launch a whole new line.

47:59it's going to be called milk bar life and we're going to have like these really great like yogurt parfaits like they're going to be as obsessively delicious as the dessert you know and love but we're going to have things that you want to put in your body for breakfast if it's not cereal milk and a cornflake chocolate chip marshmallow cookie which is a breakfast of champions um we're going to have like three different green juices but instead of being called like super greens we're going to call it like high kick we're going to call the really green one hurt so good. Like we're going to make things funny to keep, you know, when you drink a green juice, like plugging your nose sort of thing.

48:33And I was like, such a big believer in it. We're going to have coffee and it's going to, our, our line of coffee is going to be called milk bar buzz because obviously you drink coffee because you're trying to like get up to like some sort of like, I'm awake. I'm awake. Let's go. And I was so convicted. I saw it. I believed in it in myself. I saw it in my team. We designed. We went. We launched this whole thing. And it went fine. Like it was middling at best. And Christina doesn't do fine. I don't do fine. I don't do middling. That's just, neither does Maria. I'm looking at the spark in your eye because you know.

49:10You're like, I'm going to take off sprinting right now. When you said content. When you said when you're just content and everything's okay. Not up and down. I don't mean because we can't find happiness. I mean like content and just middling. Yeah, no, I know what you mean. Just like content is not the word you describe. And that's buzzkill. And it was buzzkill. And what we found was that people were like, no, I mean, I think the juices are amazing or the yogurt. I've never had like a yogurt parfait with a passion fruit curd and like, you know, sesame seed and like ground tea, like a Thai tea granola.

49:44But that's not where I want to go to get it. This isn't where I want to go. I want a separation between my where I go for my like joyful time stops, the world pauses. That's my that's where I go for that. And I don't care if I have to walk four blocks or if I go across the street or or. And I use this mentality time and time again because we have some of like some of our stuff is super secret high protein. we have we call them coincidentally gluten-free or coincidentally vegan desserts on the menu that you wouldn't even know unless you actually go digging because what we realize time and time again especially in an era of like bfy better for you right people at least for us when they come in i don't care whether you're a cannonball or not when you come in you are prepared to cannonball into time stand still it's joy for joy at milk bar and even though these other things might be true you don't want to hear about it like that's not this is we are the joy bubble place for it in New York yeah exactly it's not the place for it and it's one of my favorite failures because girl I failed out loud my idea my push my passion failed out loud and you want to know what I am an introvert that was like always raised I have my face gets red when I'm embarrassed because I'm a redhead like there's all the telltale signs and I remember growing up as a kid always being in fear of being embarrassed and there was not a moment of me in that failure that felt embarrassed whatsoever because it's that mentality of like I went out there and I gave it my all and I left it all on the field and I was wrong and we failed and you did it well but that's not where people wanted to eat their healthier snacks they wanted a sweet treat that's it and And it was the like, you don't get, and you move on.

51:37And you go, ooh, we learned something, didn't we?

51:47It's 2023, and you make the decision to step down from your role as CEO at Milk Bar, which is a big, big deal. and you go back to the creative and culinary aspect of the business and you said something really intense um this can't be what life is i'm a shell of a human i mean just saying that out loud is like what were you feeling in that moment were you completely overwhelmed I was not overwhelmed I just felt empty I felt empty in like my tank is empty I had just had my second kid we had navigated this incredible business through COVID I had taken like three weeks off maternity leave for each of my kids not because anyone demanded it other than myself you know what I mean?

52:45And I just remember I had him strapped to my chest. Will was traveling. I'm on like a late night, last minute board call. He's crying into the phone. I'm talking. I've come from a day where I've like stealing from Peter to pay Paul between finance and culinary and operations and innovation. And I just thought I'm serving no one right now. Like I'm giving everyone a percentage of me. And that's not that's just not how I'm built. It's not what I believe in. I'm a cannonballer. I don't piecemeal out things, right? Like if I'm going to give something, I'm going to give it my all. And I had to have and have the energy to give anything.

53:27Yeah. And I was just like, I don't want a life where I don't know my kids or my kids only know what's going on in my life because I would joke about them needing to sign NDAs. You know what I mean? Where I was like, that's funny once it's not funny 10 times and I sat down with myself and was just like what you are gonna have to decide what you really want what is the thing that really brings you the most joy and what is the thing that you are uniquely positioned to do that no one can do better than you I mean this work ethic of like giving it your all is brilliant right like the highs are so high It's every for the longest time.

54:10Milk bar was my everything on every level. I didn't see friends. I mean, I have great friends that I work with. Right. But like I didn't see if you didn't work with me, maybe you can come by the baker and say, I didn't see my family. And I think what I realized after finding my person and starting a family was that there's not a part of me that loves Milk Bar any less. And when I am at work in Milk Bar Christina mode, it's the same, right? But what I also realized when I stopped to take a look at myself in the mirror was like, you are more than this. And don't forget that because the other side of my body was like pushing me to be like, like, stop.

54:59My body was like, I don't want to I would procrastinate to be three minutes late on a call because I'd be like, I just don't want to be on the call. And then you move to Nashville. Yeah, that's get out of here. I mean, talk talk us through that. That's part of like these stepping stones, right? Of I think my husband and I, we always joke that when we are doing our best work, it's because we're both dreamers and we're like dreaming the unreasonable, impossible together. And when we do our worst work, it's because we're both dreamers and there is there's nobody's feet are on the ground. We are up in the sky in a balloon with our dreams.

55:37We make our best and worst decisions together. We both just had moments where he had like his he was changing his professional life and we were both just like there's more to life. There's more in this life for us. And we have no clue what that is and what it looks like. But what we do know it's not doing what we're doing right now. And it's be and it was being unafraid to just to just make like not make a little change, just make a really big change. And he's more of an analyzer. So he was like analyzing it more. And I remember one conversation we were having where he's like, well, what about this?

56:12And what about that? And I was like, oh, babe, I already like my decision was made. Like, I thought we already decided on this long ago. And he was like, yeah, but what about our family and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, the whole reason I love it is because we're taking a chance on our family, on ourselves, on our tiny little family unit that we're building together. And I just that's not even if we fail and we don't like it, that's not a that's not a loss. It's not a failure. It's a data point. And we'll never regret it. What is something that surprised you about the move? Oh my gosh. Coolest part about the move that I didn't think about was when you live in a place that you've lived for so long, you don't realize the dialogue of like should, could, have to, must that goes into your how you make decisions, how you spend time, the people you see, the things you say yes to, et cetera, et cetera.

57:07when you go somewhere brand new where you don't really know anyone, you get to build that from scratch. And when you do it with your person, you get to build it from scratch with your person. So every time we do something, we'll just be brushing our teeth or like drinking coffee the next morning and be like, okay, we do this when we go out to eat at a restaurant. We order like everything on the menu. And then we like the next day or that night, maybe we'll do a debrief of like, okay, what's our like, what's the order when we go back now that we've had everything, when we go back, what is the perfect order for us?

57:37Can you guys film that? Oh my gosh. Between your and Will's sensibility in food. It's my favorite part of dining out is the after when we go, okay, so what is our perfect meal at that place like? And when you, socially, every time we go out, we'll come back and be like, okay, what did you think? Did you like, did we like who we were with? Did you like Joe? Did you like Jack? Yeah. Like, are these our people? Are they our medium people? Are they our like middle of the night people? There's tornadoes in Nashville. Are they the like come to my basement to watch Home Alone on VHS with me and the kids people, right?

58:13Are they the people that we go out with? So you're having an entire new dialogue which didn't exist in the city. You literally get to build one day at a time like what is your dream life? And by the way, like this is the cannibal mentality. Like your analysis is never going to go through these things. These are all of the humanity points and none of the like data points. But I highly recommend moving somewhere new. And when you do, like, really give yourself to it. It makes my brain, it's like adventure. I love that. Your brain, the happy parts of your brain. Full circle. Back to cannonballing.

58:51You're just firing on all synapses. Cannonball. All right. To wrap this up before we get to the pretty tough questions. Okay. I wanted to ask you, because you're an expert, what are the three top desserts that are worth traveling for? Whoa. that's a really good question start okay one okay the cheesecake in san sebastian in spain the basque cheesecake yeah the basque cheesecake dave baran has a restaurant in santa monica in california that has a basque cheesecake on it that i don't even know is on the menu you just have to know to go to the bar and ask for it it's really great look that's one okay two more what other desserts do you like i'm like now like i could go on forever i like the russian honey cake which is the layers and layers of pastry dough with cream in between all these layers it's quite i have a younger sister who's kazaak and a younger brother who is russian and they are obsessed so there is a place in manassas um that is i don't even know that there is specific cuisine but it's right off of um 95 in manassas and they are like an eastern european asian cafe and it looks like if you looked it up on google maps it would look like nothing um and they have the best russian honey cake or honey tea cake that i have ever had and i've had a lot because my sister brings me my younger sister brings me everywhere for it she's she's had me she sends me recipes every time we're gonna see each other um but they have the most delicious russian honey cake that i've ever had and the third one ice cream somewhere in europe is there like one of your god that's a really good question i what about in nashville an ice cream or any dessert in nashville oh god In Nashville, there are so many good desserts.

1:00:53The Yellow Table Cafe, which is in East Nashville, has one of the most delightful chocolate chip cookies. Like it's dry. It's kind of like a creperie. And she came from Park Slope and literally took a risk on herself, made a bet and opened this place in Nashville. and it is beloved and she is the kindest sweetest cannonball soul and she makes a very delicious chocolate chip cookie um we're a big east park donuts family as well where we will just i mean i'm a every donut please person but if it's gelato in europe um i would just say get every flavor we were just in venice a few weeks ago and i literally the best my friends were like you're embarrassing us now because you're holding up the line but yogurt is my favorite do you try all the flavors every one of them it is professional research maria my mother's an accountant that is a tax write-off entirely um but i also i'm a baked goods at home person like i'm a i'm a smiley cookie from the in-store bakery at a grocery store like i think it's really important to go out and support your local bakeries and cafes and dessert um queens and kings and people but also i'm a really big believer in eating dessert at home, like I still think there's nothing better than like chocolate chip cookie dough warmed in like a teacup for like five seconds.

1:02:15You're not making it into a cookie. It's like warm. The chips are melted. Oh, delicious. Cookie dough, making your own ice cream sundaes. What is something that you've had to unlearn? Something that I've had to unlearn that just because I'm an introvert doesn't mean I don't love people and being a human in the world. You and me same. That really resonates. When I'm in like a bad place, I'm like, I'm safe and happy in this corner. And like taking a risk on being a human in the world is always worth it. What is a routine that's helped shape your success? A routine that's helped shape my success is not looking at my calendar, like just going into the day.

1:03:02I don't look at it the day before. Like that has shaped my success because it forces me to be present and really look at the day as an adventure. When I'm in a bad place, I'm trying to control everything and that calendar feels like control. But really the calendar is just like a guidebook to what your adventure is for the day. I'm best and more creative, open, patient in that way. What is a common misconception about you? that I'm like just super loose and free and carefree I am like a type a perfectionist under the surface you really care like it'll I'll wake up in the middle like half of my stories to my team later today will be so in the middle of the night I woke up and this is what I was thinking about this is what I think we should do what is your relationship to perfection what's very unhealthy it's an ongoing battle i think as a baker you have to be a perfectionist because there are parts of it that are so specific the whole scale at mass um but i think of it as a relationship where every day the the human part of me and the perfectionist in me show up and they go how are we going to get this done today are we going to really battle it out are we going to give each other grace who gets to take the front seat who's navigating and i think the unhealthy perfectionist relationship part is part of me.

1:04:24Like I don't, I don't want to deny it or disregard it. Being able to say like, I don't, I didn't need to eat dessert at midnight last night, Maria. One could say that's unhealthy, but part of me is also like, and that's also part of you. So like, you just got to embrace it and move on. I needed it for the soul. What makes you feel tough? going for a sweat like lifting weight i'm a i was a long distance runner for the longest time and then like tore a hamstring got a like heel spur and so i don't run as much but anything physical that is mind over matter where my brain has to go to a different place where i have to my brain has to go like, you will get through this.

1:05:09And I find that in physical activity the most. It makes me feel tough. Like it doesn't even matter how long it is, how much the way it is. It doesn't like nobody else's measure is important to me. It is the way it makes me feel that I love. When you're overcoming your own personal limit. Because I disappear. Like there's always the voice that goes, oh, this is hard. Oh, I want to quit. Ooh, this is heavy. Ooh, this doesn't feel good. And when my brain tells that part, that voice to like go away and be quiet and like you can come back later, but just not right now. And then when it comes back, it's like, that was great.

1:05:49I got it. That was great. Yeah, that's great. We feel great, don't we? And what makes you feel pretty? A waking up after a great night's sleep. Waking up after a bad night's sleep with like a really great cup of coffee. Waking up just the feeling after a really great sweat or accomplishing something that somewhere along the way I told myself was going to be hard, maybe even impossible, maybe even like I want to quit. I feel the best most radiant version of myself when I've kind of I guess when I've overcome myself that and a really great night's sleep as you said sleep I was just thinking of myself a week ago I went on this like very quick trip with my girlfriend and it was the first time that I've done that in a long time where I'm not packing like toddler snacks and or a business casual I got undies and a pair of socks I need nothing else and I woke up like an hour later than I usually do.

1:06:45And I looked at my clock. I was like, this is fantastic. I could easily get used to this. This is not the norm, but boy, do I feel and look pretty. I'm with you, girl. Well, you look amazing. So Christina, thank you so much. I love your wisdom. I love your attitude. You have such a bright attitude and it shines through so much of what you do. So thank you I would say that you have been modeling for me and I would venture to assume so many that like being tough, redefining what's possible, the odds, like you have modeled it for me for many, many, many years before even Milk Bar. So thank you for just being a human in the world and putting yourself out there.

1:07:30I can't wait to hear more stories. That is very kind. Thank you, Christina.