Misty Copeland Never Wanted to Stand Out. Then She Changed Ballet Forever

29:06It would be years. And then. Yeah. And so I but I still was literally like in firebird mode. And I was like, no, I'm not going to take that answer. I'm in denial. And I'm going to find a doctor who's going to say yes. And I found one who works with basketball players and football players. And he was like, oh, we deal with this injury all the time. I mean, he's like, though, I've never seen it on someone as petite as you. And so we have to. So he did the surgery in a way that he'd never done it before. So he screwed a plate into my tibia. And he was like, we can ensure that you're never going to deal with a fracture in this part of your leg where I was more prone to them because of the shape of my legs.

29:43And I was on stage within eight months performing again. And then I think it was what, like maybe two or three years later, I was promoted to principal dancer. I wouldn't recommend that to anyone. Where do I go from here? Let's talk about your relationship to pain. Because in preparation for this interview, I've often heard you speak about when some of your biggest moments in your career were associated with deep pain. When you look back, how does that make you feel now and how is your relationship to pay now? Yeah, I mean, I think that my husband and I have had this conversation so many times where it's like the chicken or the egg.

30:33Am I motivated and kind of charged up because I'm up against this challenge? Or is that how I would have continued to be throughout my career? Because, you know, as you said, a lot of these big opportunities have been met with so much stress and physical stress that have led to injury. But then it's like this crazy fire inside of me. And, yeah, I mean, I think it's a combination of all of it. But it's I don't think that it's a healthy way to to exist and to, you know, to be within your career. But I would think I think that it's prepared me for motherhood in a lot of ways. I wanted to get to that.

31:16You know, I think that having the relationship that I've had with pain, I don't know if it's a healthy thing, but it's almost like it's kind of like normalized in a lot of ways in my mind that like I know I can tolerate a lot. I'd love to talk about adjustments in your technique as you were dancing through pain, because I had shoulder surgery after winning my third Grand Slam. And I felt like I was at the peak of my career. I got bad news. I did an MRI and all of a sudden I was in the operation room. And several months later in the recovery process, the doctor said that if you keep serving exactly the same way, and if you have the same motion, you're going to be on the same exact table in two to three years.

32:02And it was this just reality check when I went back on the court and I stepped out on the line to serve. I looked at my coach and I said, I need to make an adjustment. I need to make a change because I want to be there for longer. I don't want to just be there for two years. And I was only 21. Wow. So I had to make changes. And I was not okay with changes. Yeah. It's hard. It's so hard. And I'd love to hear, like, are there things, are there certain techniques that you had to, you know, that you had to change and to modify? And perhaps the outside world wouldn't even know you did it. But what were those?

32:42You know, I think it's something that I've done in small ways throughout my career that I maybe wasn't as, like, conscious of why I was doing them or the choices. But I just knew, I felt inside, like, that I needed to do it. um and so and these are like we have coaches we have what they call ballet masters or ballet mistresses but they're when you're in a company you're not really kind of isolated where they're like holding your hand and you're talking about your training like you're pretty much on your own so these were things I was doing on my own with my own money and so injury has just taught me and guided me in so many ways throughout my career and I'm so grateful for them because I I don't think that I would be as layered and knowledgeable without having gone through that, without having just this completely like linear experience.

33:35And so, you know, I've just dabbled in so many different things, you know, whether it be, I mean, Pilates I've done since I was 15 years old, but like gyrotonics or floor bar, you know, learning, you know, even, I don't know, after being promoted to principal dancer, like I'm 32, 33 years old. And I decided I'm going to like forget everything I know and start training with a new teacher that I was working with privately and learning a different technique, which is called the Vaganova technique. And it's very different from how I have ever trained. So it's like starting over again from scratch, but I was still in the midst of like performing.

34:14At a time of your career where most women are finishing. I know. But I think I've always had this desire to understand more and learn better ways of doing things. And injuries have shaped me and my career and they've shaped the person that I am and my approach. And, you know, even literally up until four months ago, where I had a hip replacement, like I'm still evolving and learning and learning to take care of myself in better ways as well. But I find it very, I don't know, fascinating just to be on this journey and to go through all of these things with your body. As we get older to understand how our body has evolved and where it's going.

35:00I love it though. Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? We're here for the ride, for better or worse. You've pointed out a key difference between ballet and sports, that audiences go to the ballet to be moved by the artistry, not to score dancers on technicalities. Why is that distinction so important to you? You know, I think that the difference is that art is subjective and sport is not. And I think that there's just so many layers to what we do as artists. And I mean, I guess what I want is for people to appreciate the athleticism that it takes, but not feel that it serves a purpose outside of supporting the storytelling.

35:55So yes, there are ballet competitions and dance competitions, but it's not to me like really a part of, you know, what people come to see it for, which is to escape and to, you know, to experience beauty. And it's not so like the competition isn't so forward facing, I guess. Yeah, there's there's a few similarities in sport where I've sometimes come off the court and and I know at the end of the day, there's a winner and a loser. But then I think of the audience and what they're getting out of it. And yes. And for them, A lot of times it's not about winning and losing and they don't come to the match to see who wins or loses.

36:42There's someone in the crowd that's had a really crap day. Right. And they see you go through these emotional roller coaster. And they follow your journey too. Exactly. And they're like on it with you. Exactly. And they come home and they say, wow, this individual just went through like ups and downs and made mistakes, but then, you know, came back. And no matter the result, you know that the next day they'll wake up, they'll go to school or they'll go to their work and they will be uplifted. I mean, that's the dream, right? That's the goal. And so always I think of, you know, my career is like, yes, it was so dependent on winning and losing.

37:20But it's not all of it. The connection to the audience. I love hearing that. And I think something that I've often thought about in terms of how can we, in ballet and in the arts and performance world, what can we do to have more of a deeper connection, I think, with our audiences? And I think something that I've learned just through sports is the way that you are allowed to kind of follow their lives and their journeys. And through social media, too. I know. I mean, it gives, I wish that we would kind of embrace it more because I think that we've done ourselves a disservice in this world by kind of having this curtain and you can't see what's behind it.

38:09And it's only, you know, this perfect picture, perfect thing on, you know, but like people don't really know what it takes. They see the filtered version of your life. And so, you know, I remember when I first partnered with Under Armour and it really gave us an opportunity to tell stories in a different way. And that people were seeing me without a tutu and they were seeing the strength and they were hearing about the letdowns. And there's something so powerful, I think, about being able to connect to like a human story and see their journey that we haven't always gotten to see and do. It's one of the things that made me feel comfortable with social media is like appreciation that there is somebody on the other side that is seeing you in a different light.

38:56Right. So being comfortable to share more than what they see on the court and just your performance and just the forehand or just to serve like they want to get to know who you are as an individual. And of course, there are guardrails and there's, you know, we all have our boundaries and our, you know, privacy limits. But it really allowed me to to be a bit more free and just express more and share more. And what's your relationship to social media like? You know, it's very interesting because I feel like social media wasn't really a thing until like in the midst of my professional career. So it's not like something I came up.

39:31Same here. Came up with. And so it's very, I think, I think, and I still see it this way, but I think initially I was like blown away. I was like, wow, the opportunity for people just to see little like images and little tidbits of like performance who might never think they were even remotely interested in what ballet is, or they have their preconceived ideas, but we get to give them a different perspective and peek into it. And so I think initially that was really what I was like, oh, my God, this is amazing and what I was drawn to. And, of course, there are so many negative aspects of it. Especially as a mother.

40:11Right. But I feel like, you know, I'm mature enough and old enough to be able to set those boundaries and use it for the way that I want to and not kind of get caught up in all of that. Because it can be overwhelming. Yes.

40:32Your favorite fall flavors are back at Starbucks. The one and only pumpkin spice latte and the deliciously smooth iced pecan crunch latte have arrived and are ready to sip all season long. Or find a new favorite, like the new iced banana bread latte that tastes just like fall in a cup. You can find your favorite taste of fall only at Starbucks. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.

41:12Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast.

41:47Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. We're talking at such a major point in your life. Last year, you retired from the American Ballet Theater with a stunning performance, but it almost didn't happen, right? Yeah. I'd love to hear that story. I know. You know, when I think about what performance has meant to me throughout my life and career, I think I didn't really process that. It's never been about like, oh, I need this applause. pause I need this like validation like I so much enjoy the journey and I so much I do love performing as well but it's never really been about those things and I got to a point where I you know right before the pandemic I really felt ready to call it like I was like I just don't have the same fire and passion that I've had throughout my career it's hard no it's not fair to anyone It's not fun.

42:54And it's way too much work to not have fun, you know? And so then the pandemic hit. And so I was like, fabulous. I get to have this time. Just what I wanted. Just what I wanted. I mean, I know. It was such a tough time. And I feel like I was still so involved in ballet. And I don't want to be away from that. I just didn't feel like I wanted to be in it. And so the artistic director of American Ballet Theater throughout those five, almost six years I took off, I mean, he kept coming to me wondering, you've got to, I was still, you know, a principal dancer. I just was not sure what I wanted to do.

43:35And I just never imagined like a farewell performance for myself. And it was five years. It was almost six years, I think, that I hadn't done ballet and I hadn't performed. And I was just chilling. I mean, not just chilling, I wasn't dancing. I was doing a lot of other things. But it got to a point where like my mentors, they came to me and they were like, listen, like you've got to put a bow on it. Like it not just for you like this. You know what I mean? Like the investment that so many people have had in you and what you mean and all of these things. And then I think what I kind of came to terms with was like, okay, this is my way of saying thank you to everyone who's been a part of this journey, who's put in the work, who's nurtured me, who's supported me.

44:22And so I think when I could kind of phrase it in my mind in that way that it made more sense, but I did not want to do it. I mean, I was kicking and screaming. I was just like, it just felt, I was like, I just don't, I don't need to do it. It felt so like self-indulgent. And like, I just was like, I would like to just bow out gracefully and just disappear. Well, it goes back to you being a 13-year-old girl on the basketball court and this teacher bringing you in. It's true. It's kind of how you started and how you finished your career. You have the most beautiful connections to things. I'm just like thinking of this girl that goes on this basketball court with two hoops and this lady just seeing this potential in you.

45:08I can't stop thinking about it. Can we talk about Prince? I want to talk about Prince. I know you've often spoken about Prince, but I would love to hear the story of how you met and what he meant to you and what he means to you now. You know, he came into my life at such an important moment that I think brought me to another level of, I think, my idea of like excellence and artistry and vulnerability and what it means to be, to really own your differences and make them your powers. so I I mean it was just such a random event that I was sleeping and my friend called me and she said um she worked for an arts organization she was like all these people have been calling us because they know we're friends and they keep saying prince is trying to get a hold of you and I had just woken up and I'm like the prince of what country and she was like what no prince the artist.

46:21And I was like, what? Why would he want to get ahold of me? So I'm like, sure, you could pass his number along. So I'm like, okay, well that happened. And then I went on about my day. I went to ballet class and, um, and then I saw my, I had my phone out because his manager then called and was like, he's going to be calling you. So have your phone available. I'm like, what? I can't live my life like this. I got to do things. And so I was like in ballet class and I had my phone like by the bar, which is like, no, no, no. It's a no, no. you can do it. So like my phone rings and I'm like, excuse me.

46:54And I like walk out and, um, and we had a whole conversation. He was just like, I'm such a fan of yours. I've been trying to get ahold of you for a whole year because I wanted you to be in a music video of mine. I remade the song Crimson and Clover and I, and I, I just envisioned you. And he was like, I, we couldn't get ahold of you. We were trying to contact ABT and they weren't responding or something like that. so uh he was like but I shot it with a dancer and I'm still not satisfied so we are can you do this and I flew it like the next day or something I flew to LA we met and it was just like this understanding you know and respect for each other's art and I think also what it is to be a black artist and we just like connected and our love of music and his interest he just had he was so curious and was so interested in like other art forms and other disciplines.

47:52And he was just constantly learning and a student, which I think is incredible. And then we ended up working together for many years, collaborating and I traveled and toured with him. And I just think that like, you know, one of the biggest lessons though, was just to really take charge of like who I am and not be afraid to stand in my identity and, you know, what it is to be a Black artist and not to feel isolated in that and instead to feel empowered. That even if you don't see people in your immediate circle of who you're around in your workspace, whatever it is, who look like you, that there's still a world of support out there for you.

48:38Was there a specific piece of advice that he gave you that you continue to think about? I mean, so much, so much. I mean, I think something that he would always say was like, when people would ask him like, Oh, what's your favorite record you ever made? Or, you know, and he was like, it's always what I'm working on now. And being able to really be present and, and, and lift yourself up and be proud of the work that you're doing. But I think just, you know, when I would share these stories of like, you know, I was the only black woman at American Ballet Theater for the first 10 years of my career.

49:14And I would talk, you know, I was very open with him and I would share how I felt and what it was to feel lonely. And he would say to me, like, why are you so sad about this? And I'm like, why don't you understand what I'm going through? And he was like, you're the only one, like everyone's looking at you. Like so many people would want that. And then I was like, oh, like the way he like flipped it and it forever was that way in my mind where it was like, I have an opportunity here. I have a platform. I have a responsibility. And it just changed into like this positive perspective of what it is to be me only.

49:48Since retiring late last year, you've already had another performance this year after hip surgery, which you're just a freak of nature. How did that performance at the Oscars come together? Um, yeah. So I, you know, I've, I've, I left American Valley Theater in my 25 years career there, but I always knew I would continue performing, but I imagined it would be like next year. Not so quick. Give myself like a year. Maybe a year after the surgery. I know, but Ryan Coogler and his team called and they were like, we know you just had hip replacement, but you really inspired you know this scene in the film you know there with you know the dance and music and kind of the evolution in sinners yes um you know indigenous culture and black culture and and and there's a black ballerina that's dancing throughout that scene and and and he said you know it was inspired by you and even having her in the red leotard was inspired by Firebird.

50:56And she, you know, and they were like, it would be our dream to have you be a part of this. Even if you just stand on the stage and move your arms. And I was Misty Copeland doesn't stand on the stage and just lift her arms. Who is he talking to? I know. I was like, I can't just stand on the stage. I was like, all right, we got to figure this out. What am I going to do? So I said yes. And I was like, but I don't know what I physically can do. I don't know. I don't know what I'll be able to do. But so I, I like got my pointe shoes from the basement and I'm like, right, dust them off. Okay. So I flew to LA and went into the studio, put my pointe shoes on.

51:38I hadn't had them on in, I don't know, like six, seven months or something and was like, let me see what I can do. And I was like, okay, I think I can like go on point. And I think I can kind of move around. And so they were like, they pretty much were just like, whatever you want to do, like, just do it and like, get out of her way. Just show up. But it meant so much, you know, for that moment, for the film, and for Ryan and for Michael B. Jordan. And so I knew what it meant, you know, in the bigger picture, you know, to be a part of that. And it was really special to be invited and incredible to stand on the stage with the artists that were up there.

52:22And so, yeah, I mean. Beautiful momentum after your finale performance. And, you know, you've held such a strong identity in your craft and to kind of to have an opportunity, maybe a little too soon after hip surgery, but to have an opportunity to have a slightly different portrayal of a character. Totally. and and I think that it was really cool too you know we really Ryan was very involved I mean it was like you know he had an idea he was like I want you to wear a costume that really is connected to something meaningful to you and a role in your career that's been meaningful and he was like of course Firebird would be the one I would choose and I was like okay Swan Lake or Firebird and so um I couldn't get a costume from American Ballet Theater and I you know they were in the midst of also performing it.

53:10So I called Dance Theater of Harlem, who also were in the midst of performing Firebird in Paris. And they were like, we're going to go to the archives. And they dug a costume out. 1982, the year I was born, was the first time that the Dance Theater of Harlem did the Firebird. So it was really meaningful to wear this costume that carried so much history of black ballet. And Jeffrey Holder, who designed, I mean, there was just so much storytelling happening in layers that it just was perfect. I can guarantee you that I would not fit in a dress that I wore when I was a young girl or a teenager. I would not even try.

53:52It was, yeah. It's so funny. My son Jackson saw the like little leotard tutu thing hanging in my like dressing. He thought it was a costume. He came in and he goes, what is that? And I said, but mama's gonna wear it to perform and he goes oh that's too small

54:10i'm putting it on they're so honest i know that's too small for you and did he watch your performance on was he there he wasn't there he wasn't there yeah but he watched it on tv and he's like you're like mommy proved you wrong i didn't fit in it

54:28misty copeland you performed with taylor swift not many people can say that yeah um she's she's an incredible person and she was so hands-on i mean from like facetiming her while we're in the studio like showing her like what about this like being placed over on stage right and like how about with my leg here like she was so invested and so involved and it was such a beautiful experience just to be on stage with an artist I think who respects herself and respects other artists I think one of the most beautiful parts of performing with her was I did this you know pas de deux which is a dance for two like a partnering dance with my partner and in rehearsals like she played we danced and then we like all exited and and during the performance of the American Music Awards, she stopped us and she said, I have to acknowledge like Misty Copeland and Craig Hall and like how to stand there and take a bow.

55:29And it was just, I think just speaks volumes to who she is as a person and as an artist and her respect. I have so much admiration for how much she takes on and how she's able to navigate just the responsibility of her stature. He handles it all so beautifully. We have to talk about Timothee Chalamet. We have to. Your response was that Chalamet wouldn't be a movie star if it weren't for opera and ballet and their relevance in that medium. Could you unpack that for me? There's so much strength in that. You know, I mean, he's been a vessel to get this conversation started, but it's so much bigger, you know, than the words.

56:13And I think that, first of all, I have to say, like, this is a conversation that's been going on for, like, generations and generations, you know, what it means to keep these two art forms, specifically these two art forms alive and how much value they bring. And interesting and relevant. Yes. You know, and that they continue to have relevance and impact in so many other artistic mediums. But, you know, I think that not everyone has the opportunity and the privilege to have been a part of it. And he was. You know, he grew up in New York City exposed to a plethora of arts and in ballet and, you know, immersed in this world.

56:52And so not everyone has that incredible privilege. And so, you know, I know that those things have made an impact on him and clearly have influenced who he is as an artist and who he is as a person. And again, I think that, you know, that opera and ballet are kind of the foundation and catalyst for film and for television and so many other Broadway art forms. And so I think that it's just like a little bit naive or, you know, to make such a statement. Of course, we all talk and we say things that we don't always mean. But I think that it was more kind of hurtful to the community to say that people didn't care.

57:34And I think that there's, you know, especially this day and age with social media and how quickly we get validation and how quickly we, you know, feel fulfilled or what we think is fulfilled or whatever that is. And I think that the misunderstanding or misinterpretation is that just because something is popular and so many people know about it is that it's more valuable or that it's lasting, you know, that it has lasting relevance in our communities and in our culture. And so, you know, I've worked my entire career to be able to continue to make it feel important to a whole new community that didn't always feel that way.

58:20And so there's intention and there's work being done and we're fighting against, you know, systems that, you know, we don't have government funding. You know, it's just it's a really difficult thing to to continue to to keep it. Yeah. Evolving. And and for people to really feel the conversation. It started an entirely. It totally did. Way of talking about. And it's been great. And and and so I'm always grateful to be able to talk about the importance of diversifying the audiences that we have. and I think you know going back to what I was saying about you know the power that you've had as an athlete and that athletes have and that you know connecting with audiences and people knowing who they are and their stories and I think movie stars have a similar you know at this like being able to follow their journeys and like dancers don't really have that and I feel like there's like a missing piece with connection and and relatability that like I'm always working towards like how do we continue to you know change and evolve and keep up with the times but still hold on to our integrity of these incredible art forms.

59:30Are there things that you're seeing in performances or on social media that excites you about the future of dance? Yeah, I mean, the thing is, dance is so ingrained in who we are as people, in culture, no matter where you go in the world, every culture has a connection to movement and tell stories through, you know, whatever movement style their communities are a part of. We come out of the womb moving our bodies. And so to me, like, it's not something that will ever go away. It's just how are we kind of rewriting the story? How are we inviting different people in? And so, I mean, TikTok has definitely been an incredible platform that's literally been based on dance.

1:00:19And it's got people moving. And I think that's, there's something so powerful. I think that we constantly are going through these cycles and trends that come back to, you know, being influenced by movement. And it's one of the reasons that I started my production company, Life in Motion Productions, is really based around the idea of how are we bringing movement in storytelling back to like mainstream, whether, you know, television, film, you know, the way that it was in like the 20s and the 30s and the 40s. Because there's so much value in using our bodies to tell stories. To me, it's exciting.

1:00:53to think about the ways in which we can really engage with our audiences and listen to them. And I think that's something that we've struggled with in both of these art forms is not listening and feeling like, well, it's been around for 400, 500 years, like we're doing something right, so we're not going to change our ways. And that is a terrible way of thinking and making your communities and audiences feel seen. And so it's, I'm so hopeful. And it's been really important for me to be able to be on the other side of things and to have a seat at the table. So, you know, being on the board of Lincoln Center and the board of The Shed, which is an incredible arts institution here in New York City, and the board of American Ballet Theater, like I have a different voice and perspective and impact than I have had on the stage.

1:01:48And I think there's so much value in having artists on the other side of things to be able to really lend their experiences being you know being out there and connecting with your audience and and and I think that it's really about how are we telling stories that represent a broader range of people so that people want to come and and and feel seen and feel heard and I think that's something that some ballet companies are doing I know the opera has definitely made leaps in that space And so I think it's just more of that, more of us opening ourselves up and not being so rigid in the way things have been.

1:02:29What is one thing, if you had a seat at the head of the table, what is one thing that you would change or modify right now? If I could just have a magic wand, I think it's the financial burdens that we have. And I think if we didn't have that, there's so much freedom to do when we're not thinking about how are we surviving and struggling and, oh, we have to do this ballet because that's the one that most people come to, but do they really want to see that? There's no room for creativity and exploration. And I think that's something that's held us back, is that how can you really do all of those things when you're not getting the financial support.

1:03:16And also exposing an audience to something new, right? And as someone that's, I'm a huge fan of performance and dance and even in things that might not feel comfortable or I'm not familiar with. But I remember my mom always taking me to the theater and saying, learn something from this performance, right? It might not be a music that you appreciate or you might not like this dance, but watch, you know, analyze, respect it. So I think also opening our minds to a new form of dance, right, or a new choreography and not just thinking of the past. Right. You know, the Swan Lake will always be Swan Lake.

1:03:57Yes. Right. It will always be there. Yes. Very true. Your work and your impact have always gone way beyond ballet. In 2021, you founded the Misty Copeland Foundation with the goal of bringing greater diversity to dance. And this podcast is called Pretty Tough, and I'd say it takes specific kind of toughness and finesse to really pursue that mission right now. What advice would you have for communities to connect with that specific kind of toughness and finesse? You know, it's been so fascinating and I love a challenge. And I think that as athletes, you know, I think that's something that we like, you know, find ourselves like walking towards, not away from.

1:04:45Walking in. Walking right in. There's no exit sign. And so I feel like, you know, through my foundation, I wasn't trying to just like, you know, create these like pretty ballet classes and and go into communities that were like, oh, I want to be there. it was like what are the communities that don't have it and need it because I think this is this is something that every community needs to experience and not to create professionals necessarily but to expose them to it because I think that there's so much strength and value in the tools and the skill sets that you learn by being an athlete by being exposed to the arts hearing live music all of it and so it's challenging like we're in black and brown communities right now we're in the Bronx and we're in Harlem and these are like specific communities that have, you know, I think felt not seen, not invited into these spaces.

1:05:38It's hard to get a lot of like fathers to let their sons be a part of it. And so, you know, I think that it's really about bringing ourselves into the community, not extracting people and putting them in spaces where they're not, they don't feel safe. They don't feel seen. They don't feel like there are our instructors or teachers who look like them, we want to come and meet them where they are. And we want to really kind of deepen our impact on the community as a whole so that we're not just dropping in a program and then leaving. And that, you know, through my own personal experience of coming into ballet and the way I was brought into it was so beautiful and joyful and nurturing.

1:06:20So I know it can be done in that way and that it can be bigger than what ballet actually is for these communities. So let's shift gears and talk about motherhood. We both share sons that are similar in age. And for a lot of our careers in our life, we've been most of the time in control of our bodies and our actions and our techniques. I can confirm that parenting takes out all the control in the world. There's barely any control when you're a parent. Yeah. You're not in charge. No, no. This little being is. How, how has this shift in control and being a mother shaped your life? It's been really good for me.

1:07:10And again, it's a challenge in a different way. Um, and that I feel like there are still ways of like of of having having control over like how you're how you're approaching things and and so it's for me it's like how do I find the like familiar in these things that are crazy and outside of you know yeah my comfort zone and so I think similarly with like being a mom it's like you're you're constantly listening and shifting and changing gears and it's such a fascinating like life lesson, you know, that like you can take with you in so many spaces. It's like, okay, how am I not managing like this team and my foundation?

1:07:59And it's like, I've developed new skills because I've learned how to like manage my four-year-old. And it's very, I don't know. I think it's really cool. And it's definitely taught me a lot of like patience and just to be able to adapt and um and know that like he's watching and learning from the things i'm doing it's not just about like oh i'm gonna follow these rules or i'm gonna put them in this class but like i think the most power the most power we have is the example we're setting and we have control over that when When was the last time where you felt like you were completely out of control with him and you just you needed advice and you needed your mom group's help?

1:08:50I know, right? Or your parents' help. I think it was a little bit ago, but it was struggling with. So it happened around the time I had my hip surgery. He's in ballet. He's been in ballet since he was two. He loves moving. He's like very athletic and he stopped wanting to go. Like once I was like not kind of going with him and I was in bed and like I was like clearly there's some kind of connection going on here. I don't know if he thinks like I'm going to have to have hip surgery too. Like I don't know what it is. Mommy's a ballerina. But it was like and this went on for like months. Like I was back up and I was like going and he like and he's not this way in any other activity in his life.

1:09:35He like he's pretty independent. like he'll go into things and he'll do but he was literally like holding my husband's leg like not going in and we were just like at our wits and we're like do we have a ballet school dropout here at three and a half like he rebelled are we gonna do my husband I think was more hurt than I was I was like listen he can come back to it if he doesn't he doesn't as long as he's doing something where he's creative and he's moving his body you're like I started at 13 I know he's got plenty has many more years to go and my husband was like but I never even thought this would be a possibility and I'm like well you need to deal with your own issues because but it got to a point where it was just I think um the energy we're putting out there he's picking up on too and so he's been I think it's been three classes in a row that he's been good we're on a roll yeah Three is on a roll.

1:10:29But it was one of those moments where we were just like, threw our hands up like, oh, I guess this is it. He's going to like quit this class. And then like, you know, it's like taking a step back and like having conversations like with our community and like figuring another way. Which is like, chill out. It's so hard. You know? I remember when my son was like transitioning from going to the class with either me or my mom. Oh, by himself? To doing it himself. Oh, gosh. And there's that like you cross the line and the line is like you go from being there with him to like the mom or the caregiver has to leave the class.

1:11:07Yeah. And, you know, but I'm not OK with it. My son is not OK with it. I don't know what to do. It's terrifying. I mean, what do you do? Well, the first time didn't go well. OK. Screamed out of it. I was like, I guess gymnastics not happening today. I was like, I'm just. Yeah, I gave up. We were there for like 10, 15 minutes. We're holding up the class. I know at some point you're right. You're like, okay, we've got to take. Yeah. He just doesn't want to be there alone. And we're just going to go do something else. Keep it moving. That's so hard. Let's talk about the ventures that you're a part of now.

1:11:44I know that you committed so many years to focusing on one craft, but you received so many opportunities to endorse brands. And now being in this new phase of your life, how do you think about who to partner with and what makes sense and what doesn't? I'm sure you you're very selective and you're very protective of your brand. And I would just love to hear like your philosophy on that. When I first started, it's not common that a ballet dancer has a manager. It's changed now with like social media and, you know, everyone's kind of more like independent outside of like just being in a company. I started working with a manager who was really thinking about how are we bringing your story to the community outside of ballet.

1:12:31And that was in 20, I guess, 2012, 2013. So that was quite some time ago. And, and in that time, what I made very clear to her was that ballet is the priority and everything else is secondary. so if it's taking away from what I'm doing if it's not aligned with my values and the importance of like my this craft you know what it is to be a black woman in this field like all of those things were something that I stood firm in from the moment that I kind of entered into the space of getting those opportunities so there was a lot of turning things down literally just based on like I'm not I'm not gonna like call in sick and go do a shoot like you know what I mean available Right.

1:13:14I'm not available. I have a job. I have a job. And a lot of things are a distraction to your main job. Yeah. If it's not enhancing and supporting what I'm doing, then it doesn't make sense. And so I think I've carried that with me still to this day, even though I'm not working for a company and on stage all the time and in rehearsals all the time. I still have that same kind of values, mentality. But now you have a little more time. Well, not really. I'm like I do not at all no wow yeah you know this I when I stepped away from the stage initially before I had my actual right you know farewell I had already started kind of developing all these things I was doing like I had already been an author and so I've continued to do that um and then I started my foundation during the pandemic and that's grown and I'm very involved and then I have a production company that I also kind of really started during that time and so we have a ton of films in development I spend a lot of my time speaking and you know traveling and doing speaking engagements so it's very very busy but it's so important to me that I'm enjoying what I'm doing I'm enjoying the partners that I'm working with and that they have similar values and that we're highlighting something positive something that might get people thinking that might help them.

1:14:39And I think that it somehow all kind of comes back to the same like through line of ballet and the influence and impact that it's had on me. Is there an example recently of something that you turned down or just didn't it didn't feel like it connected with your values? I never want to be someone that's just like out there just to be out there. Like it's okay to not post every day. It's okay to not just like show up to all the events. Apparently not when you have a podcast. I've been told no offense to our social team, but apparently we need to post every day. You're, you're, you're right now you're creating in your, um, you're garnering the life, the community.

1:15:22So it's very different. I hear you say that and I'm like, that is exactly my philosophy. That sounds very familiar. I'm very comfortable with that roadmap, but if you start a podcast you're like you gotta no i know i should have thought of that before i started this i mean i think that it's hard to start something and you really have to like be out there and and do and engage with an audience yeah i mean i definitely so you can learn right because it's all about feedback totally because you want to grow and you want to get better and you want to learn from what you're creating because otherwise it's just you want people to know it's a different space and it's like a different you know connection and different understanding of you and and so So I think there's definitely differences there.

1:16:05But I think in terms of just like the brands that I don't want to like oversaturate myself and like, you know, like having conflict of interest. Like I'm just like very clear that like, you know, the health and wellness space, being a mother, being an athlete, being an artist, arts education, the youth, like giving back to the black and brown community. So I feel like it's a very clear, clear path. Yeah. I want to wrap this up with just like a general question and something that I've been thinking about as I neared retirement and as a woman in either performance and dance or as an athlete, you know that your time in the end will come a lot sooner than in other professions.

1:16:53but yet what you did in your career for so many years was such a huge part of your identity like it was the oxygen that you breathe every single day and when you step away from that how do you think about your identity now you know I think that ballet will forever be like the foundation in like who I am and how I approach things. But I mean, I see myself as so many things, you know, at this point, I see myself as, as an artist. I see myself as an entrepreneur. I see myself, um, you know, as a founder, as, as a mom, I think I said, mom, I'm going to say it five times. I'm a mom. I'm a mom. It's hard.

1:17:45It's the hardest part of it all. But I think that there's something that's really freeing about, you know, owning and accepting that it's not all of me, but it's really influenced me. And I'm proud of the influence that it's had on me. And it continues. And it continues. To influence. Yeah.

1:18:13This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, Use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more.

1:18:51Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. I want to date with rules, Carty says. Rules? Raka asks, this is the love story of real hinge couple Carti and Raka, written and read by me, Nicola Dynan. Listen to the free audiobook now. Okay, so we're going to close it off with a few pretty tough questions. What is something that you have had to unlearn?

1:19:32Oh, I think that this idea that you have to be in pain or kind of put yourself through these painful things in order to see growth or success. Those things don't have to work together. You can be consistent and work hard and show up and not be in pain and killing yourself. What is a routine that's helped shape your success? um I think what I've learned through ballet literally the structure of a ballet class you know that it's it's like it's consistency it's taking the time not rushing through things um that has like been such a big part of my success is um being true to yourself showing up being consistent and and passionate what is a misconception about you I think maybe that um That this career has been like really like overwhelming and pressure field.

1:20:31And like, I think I'm often asked that like, oh, like, like you must felt so much pressure and you're carrying the weight of like your community. I think that's a misconception. I think that I have always felt so fortunate to be given the opportunity to be a part of this world and to learn all that I have from it, that it's always felt like a beautiful responsibility and never felt that kind of pressure. What is your relationship to perfection? oh I'm a Virgo and a former ballerina so like those two things are literally like you look at perfection and they're there so it's been very it's like an ongoing challenge you know to I think step away from this idea that is not achievable it doesn't exist and and kind of turning that into to me like what we should use in replacement of that word is like consistency um and so it's an ongoing battle that I have to like constantly step back and say like you can be as prepared in professional as possible but you don't have control over everything and you don't have to be perfect all the time.

1:21:52People want to see you, your humanity and connect with you. Even more so now. Yeah, totally. What makes you feel tough? Being a ballerina, you know? I think like really and sharing what that means with the world, that it's not just putting on pretty tulle and twirling around on a stage. I think the injuries I've been through, those make me feel tough. Say that again. And what is something that makes you feel pretty? Being like really accepting of who I am, embracing where I've come from and and that it's made me the person that I am. The confidence that I have, all of it like kind of connected to the tough, tumultuous upbringing I had to experiencing ballet.

1:22:43I think there's so much beauty in the journey and the scars and the ups and downs that make us human. That's an amazing way to finish. Thank you, Misty. You are the icon of Pretty Tough. Thank you so much. Thank you.

1:23:05Ball is here, and that means the pumpkin spice latte is back at Starbucks. It's the one we've been waiting for. So whether you're a fan of the original pumpkin spice latte or ready to mix it up with an iced pumpkin cream chai, the new iced pumpkin cream matcha, or the new iced pumpkin cream shaken espresso, you can find your favorite taste of fall only at Starbucks. Should she say that about the kisses? Is that weird? She doesn't care. She presses send. This is the love story of real hinge couple Daniel and Roisin, written and read by me, Rufy Thorpe. Listen to the free audiobook now. Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today.

1:23:49Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-CONTACTS.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-CONTACTS