Supermodel Carolyn Murphy: 73 Vogue Covers, Walking Away from Fame, and Finding Yourself at 53

28:29Japanophile? I mean, file anything. Whatever it is. Yeah, yeah. But you've had the great privilege of working with many Japanese artists, Yoji Yamamoto, collaborating with him. What is it about Japan that brought out the very best of you? Gosh, well, I started in Japan because I could go to Japan and work seven days a week, sometimes two and three jobs a day, come home with like wads of cash. And I was happy as a lark. But it really was that I was busy over there. But the work ethic, it shaped my work ethic so early on. Not that my parents would have had my head if I didn't, you know, act professional.

29:14Because I remember Newsweek naming me in the top 10 supermodels. I was like number four or five. And I was called the professional. And I was so like, I want to be cool again. You didn't like that term. No, I didn't. I was like, I want to be cool. But how much more do you appreciate that now? I appreciate it so much now. because I'm sitting here with you and having this conversation and, you know, reflecting on those beginning years in Japan, which again, you know, created a work ethic of two and three jobs a day, going home, hitting the pillow, starting all over again. You know, I had rent to pay.

29:51It's a hard pillow there. It is a hard. It's a hard pillow and it's on the floor. It's small. It's kawaii, ne? Yeah. Kawaii. Yeah. Yes. I just remember also learning like, my name is Carolyn, or even how to count the food, the people. It's the most wonderful experience. What was the longest time you ever stayed there? I won my first professional tournament. I was still very young, but before you get to the main, main pros, you play a challenger circuit, which is technically pros, but when you're just getting into things. and I was in the middle of nowhere. It was in a city called Gunma. I don't even know where that is.

30:34Exactly. It was actually a winter town. My dad loved it because mountainous. It was an indoor tournament. My dad loved it because he could like ski all day long and then I'd play my match and then he'd go back to skiing and it was such a fun time. And you couldn't ski because they were like, you cannot break an arm or a leg. I would not even know what to do with skis or boots or any of that. I still don't. I'm a beach girl. But at the time I was like slowly tapping into that culture because there was something so professional about it. Like back to the discipline. Everything was structured. I love structure.

31:12Structured and just beautiful and not beautiful because it was overly decorated. It was beautiful because the materialization was perfect. the the way that it was bought like every piece of clothing is bonded beautifully and sewn beautifully and the shapes the tailoring the textures just the way it flows i could talk about all day me too it really is that yin and yang of that feminine masculine there's this real balance that they strive for and there's a quietude it's the quietude to have it whether you're in the mountains or you're in Osaka or, you know, it's some Japanese inn. I mean, I could literally go there right now mentally.

32:00It's just, there's a serenity to it and that culture and the food. Yoji was incredible. I had such a crush on him and I remember going to my fittings and I just couldn't even look at him. Talk about a rebel. Oh yeah. He was the ultimate rebel. He was the really know it because we didn't have access to online at the time. But you could sense that about him. I didn't know that he was a rock star. He's like Neil Young of Japan. It's also so brutally honest. I remember him giving an interview a couple of years ago. And he's like, they asked him if he loves the job. He's like, no, I don't love any of this.

32:39I don't love it. What am I going to tell you? And they're like, wait, you don't, you don't, you're not passionate about it? No, I do this. This is my job. I show up in my office. I have a team. They all help me create these great creations. I sell them and I do it season after season. I was like, that's it. I saw that same interview and I really, I internally applauded him for that, for exactly what you're saying. It's just that he is going to be honest and straightforward and there's no fluff because there is enough of that in our industry. And it's okay. It's okay to say, you know i'm here to make the money and you know i don't want to go to all those parties every night i just don't nothing wrong with that no there's nothing wrong and everybody has their way of doing it and yeah he and nelson rey kabuka they're yeah japan's amazing i need to go back we should what was last time you were there last year for my birthday but i can i'm i'm available let's figure anytime anytime there's a japanese trip on the horizon i'm available so we have to go we'll make that happen yeah we have to go we have to find a creative avenue like i'm sure we could come up with something because this is what happens to the brain now and you're you're 40 i'm 52 53 i have a few more months don't get me to 40 you have you're almost yeah it's funny i can remember my 40th like yesterday it's no big deal wait till you hit to 50 you get 50 that's when you're like oh i never really thought about my birthday before and then you hit 50 and you're I'm like, ooh.

34:11And then when you get past 50, you're like, well, fuck it. I might as well just go for it now because, you know, it's the inevitable. That's right. It is. Just own it. It really is. Yeah, you've got to own it. And you've owned some tough decisions because it was late 90s. You make a big decision to step back from the industry. You just filmed the movie that you described with Barry Levinson. and everyone labeled you as the next Grace Kelly. And your response is to move to Costa Rica. Oh, why? If I could talk to my younger self, we would have a really good conversation. You know, it's funny. I have no regrets.

35:02I have no regrets. I think at that time it was so overwhelming for me you know, not everybody wants to be famous. I enjoyed making the money. I enjoyed being creative. I was happy with where I was at in my life. And I didn't quite have a full understanding of the responsibility it was going to take to become an actress. And it coincided with meeting my ex-husband at the time, falling in love, getting pregnant, getting or getting married, then getting pregnant. It was a lot happening at once. And I think I was searching for normalcy because even prior to, to falling in love and, and Costa Rica, um, with all my success, there was a loneliness and Costa Rica was this really kind of, it was a reprieve for me.

36:05I had started surfing and it gave me a sense of normalcy and separateness. Belonging. Yes. But it was a bit extreme. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And Anna, I remember Anna and the whole fashion community were like, oh, it's so great because you're rebuilding a school and we can help, you know, do a book drive and send books down. And it was beautiful and it was amazing. But then, you know. You're like, I don't want to hear from anyone. I did and I didn't, but I wanted it to be on my terms. So it's like when you start claiming that agency for yourself, which is, you know, this is how I want it to go. And I felt like I didn't have any of that.

36:43I felt like everybody else was telling me how my life was going to be. This is who you're going to work with. This is what you're going to do. And I didn't like that, but I didn't have to go to the extreme of moving to Costa Rica. however what you have your you have dylan oh my gosh i mean talk about 10 she's amazing gave birth to dylan in 2000 the end of 2000 she's incredible i mean you're not there because you're you're still with little i'm in the toddler so you have a four-year-old yeah and then how old oh just a four-year-old for now the plenty yes it's a lot and so you have dylan in 2000 I signed with Estee, 2001.

37:272001, you signed with Estee. You separate from your ex-husband. Yes, yes. And you get back into the industry. Yeah. Because you were like, I need to make money. I'm a single mother at this point, and I need to work. And I go into this, also 9-11 had happened, which was terrifying. and I just thought to myself how do I want my life to be but also for my daughter and unfortunately my marriage was not in a great place and I said I was like you know the world could end tomorrow so you know this is unfortunate it was a devastating devastating time because it's not what I wanted but it was necessary um so I was a single mom I moved to California to be near family I also didn't want to be pushing the stroller around New York City at that point or isolating upstate New York, which is where I also had a house.

38:28So LA was like a really nice landing for us. And I was shooting a lot out there. So it was beautiful. I had family. I had great friends, you know, right from the get go. She had a yard to play in. And I started really taking, my role at Estee Lauder very seriously. And I was so happy because I grew up with the brand and it was like a pinch me moment. And actually, and funnily enough, when I first started modeling in the early nineties, Paulina Porsikova had test me. She'd taken pictures of me. She was, she was pregnant and with her husband, Riko Kasich at the time. So there was like this omen.

39:13It was so wild. At that time, was there a sense of fear? Of course. Luckily, I had my contract with Estee Lauder. Thank God. I mean, honestly, it has afforded me to be a single mom and to take care of my daughter because unfortunately, it ended up where I was the only parent. So I became mother, father, breadwinner. so that's why when Hollywood was still like oh wait you're here and here's the script and we want you to go do this movie I really it was a hard decision to make at the time but it was the right decision that I can't go on set for six months at a time I have to be a mother to my child.

40:02I'm really all she has. So I'm going to forego making more money and being more famous to be her mom. And that's the choice, I admit, because there was just no way I could balance it all. You know, Estee Lauder was so supportive of that. Let's talk about that partnership, because besides, I mean, it is still ongoing after 20, how many years? 25, it'll be 26 years. 26 years. I mean, holding on to a partner for just a few years is already a testament to longevity in this industry. But with the amount of turnover that we see in your industry specifically, where influencers are coming in for deals that are only five, six months long, I mean, to hold true to a brand that's it's beyond product right it's a legacy it's a lifestyle and I'm sure there's been several people within the company that I've turned over but yet I mean your partnership still stands talk about what that means to you you know to be there for this long and to have them I guess use me as an example of aging and these different stages of aging, I think benefits the brand.

41:29I mean, yes, it's great for me to have that predictability and that consistency, but I think it's what customers really want. And women feel like they feel more of a connection and a relatability to the actual product because they've seen me grow up with the brand. and that's a true honor. I mean, I do not take it lightly at all. I count my blessings every day. And then it's not just about getting free products that I love. I really believe in it. And I take the role seriously and I have great mentors within the company. I mean, that's how I used. I remember like back to curiosity and when I was young, you know, I only knew one thing because that was my craft and I, you know, I trained at it every day.

42:17But when I would have a brand partnership, I used it as a vehicle to learn and to learn from people that, you know, had different responsibilities within the brand. I mean, the things I learned about marketing or collaboration or even on photo shoots, like these brands gave me the opportunities to learn, to get smarter. And so, I mean, it's almost a little bit selfish, but you utilize. Yeah, it's okay. Thank you. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. Because with every nugget of wisdom you gain because you are in the position that you are, being a public figure, whether it's sitting here right now having this conversation or when you're doing an interview, you know, down the line or whatever you decide to put out in the world, that's the gift.

43:09And I think that's what came much later for me was realizing there was this level of self-deprecation for so long that I had to realize, wait a minute, I need to own this. I need to own this. I need to revel in this. I need to figure out how I can flip on its axis and turn this into doing something good. And I think when you become a mother, there is this kind of internal shift that happens where you're like, I've got to get out of my own way. And so I'm constantly wanting to set an example for her the best that I can, you know, what I have control over. Right. A lot of things are out of our control as a mom.

43:48Yes. I mean, I've had things happen in my life publicly that are just the most humiliating and harrowing things that you can imagine. But, you know, it's our resilience and it's what you can learn from those moments to show people that you can rise above and you can make your life what you want to make it. And then to take that wisdom and say, hey, you know, what about we do this with, you know, packaging or product? And, you know, I have an idea and it becomes so much more collaborative. It always was, you know, to a certain extent on set, not in the beginning. It's something that comes over time.

44:31You earn it. And now I feel like that's where I am in life with the collaborations or this, you know, partnership that I have with Infinity Wellness. I want to talk to you about that because wellness was such a natural part of your life. I mean, we have joke about Costa Rica, but there is an element of being in Costa Rica that was calming. That was, I mean, you literally had your feet in the sand and in the ground. I did. And in the 90s, I had met this woman through a life coach healer named Sally Kravich, and she was this nutritionist. and that's why so I that actually started before Costa Rica it was like 1995 I was living in the meat packing district which made me a vegetarian for like a minute and I was like you know dodging carcasses on the way to the studio that was like the start of this kind of whoo wow wait a minute I want to feel good because I'm traveling a lot right now and I do not feel good and drinking champagne at every show and drinking coffee just to stay awake.

45:39This is not working. And I feel horrible. So when I met this life coach, then she introduced me to a nutritionist. I think Sally's still around. And that's when I started paying more attention to like what I was putting in my body, my sleep. So because I was like, well, I'm performing. This is my performance. I'm a performer. And that's when my career, that alignment happened. My career really got even better and better and better. Isn't that amazing when those two things align and they aren't deliberate, but they subconsciously kind of are. They really are. Your inner reflects so much in your outer, energetically too.

46:26And I was doing a lot with that life coach at the time on visualization and manifestation. This is like 1997 and 98. How did you visualize? Making a lot of things happen. Well, through meditation. Okay. And she would have me use chakra colors. So we would use a lot of chakra colors to cut through certain emotions. You know, blue for, you know, the voice, throat chakra, fear. What was the color for fear? Blue. Blue. Green for the heart center. So we were doing a lot of that chakra balancing and a lot of breath work. Like this is 96, 97, 98. And the trajectory of my career got better and better.

47:08And I would say, I really want to work with this photographer. I really would love to do this campaign. Or I know that they're looking and I would visualize it. And then I would go into the meditation of what would it feel like? What would it feel like if I got that? So I try to use that a lot in my life. It is so powerful. I'm so glad you talk about it because I think that applies. I'm sure you use it in sport. And I applied it a lot to training, to matches. And not so much, it never was about the outcome or it wasn't result oriented. It was just so that my body would feel what some of those motions or techniques would be like.

47:47So they wouldn't be jarring. But when I was young, I used to really think about what it would be like. Like we didn't come from a lot of money. And my parents and I would go into a department store and we'd get the little things that we could afford. And I would think like one day, imagine myself walking through the store and what if I could buy whatever I wanted? And this is, I mean, I was young. I was like 11, 12 years old. but I look I still think of that moment because it was it was this power of visualizing of what if and I would walk through the aisles and like pick you know you know silly things toys at the time or books you know Christmas decorations and think I could have all of these and I would I would visualize them in my basket that is profound that you were doing that at 11 I mean, but it wasn't that, I mean, that was just like my silly kid, you know, my imagination.

48:46Imagination. Imagination is creation. Imagination is so important. Yeah. I mean, it really can. There's this great quote, you know, I think I posted and it just alludes to the fact that imagination creates your reality. Our minds are so powerful without sounding too esoteric. Like, really, truly without sounding to us, it's here what it comes down to is it's going to invoke a feeling in you of believing. It's like when you're telling your best friend, don't go out with that guy. You know, just imagine if you were doing this and this and it already starts to make you feel better. It's no different in a way.

49:26If you're not attached to the outcome, right, it's just because you can't be so attached to the outcome. But it's this, you know, self-convincing that is so important. And so now I see my daughter who is way smarter than I am. And she is on it. She is on the ball. And I'm like, well, she's got it together. But it's probably because I hammered into her, do not be, you know, again, in my younger years, so much more of this artist. And I'm just going to flow. And I'm going to be cool. And I'm going to do my thing. and then you realize one day wait a minute i need to to take agency and be deliberate exactly i have to decide what it is and then you set the example for her and she's she's been able to watch you you know through her eyes and without probably even telling you she's that i mean it's such an inspiration to well she does tell me now yes she's 25 and by the way i'm just saying it just happened.

50:26It took like, you know, at 16, I was like, oh my God, I like you. I have to be patient for another 15 years. But what? Who are you right now? And now it's funny because I just want to hang out with her. She's so much fun to be around. But yeah, it really is like, it's, I think it's so cool when you think about how lucky we are with what you've done in your career. And now you get to take on this new role of motherhood and sharing with the world. I think it's so exciting. To sit across unique, incredible individuals that have performed at the highest level, but continue to inspire and push themselves.

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52:34The season's most desirable menu has returned to Sweetgreen, featuring fall's best dressed. Make your move, order on the Sweetgreen app. In your industry, there's this idea of being invisible. It's almost like a contradiction. There's a contradiction between being invisible, but also being visible to the public because of your profession. And today in the world of social media, where we are accessible, where models are seen, they're analyzed, they're ridiculed, everything from body image to now what they say and what they stand up for. how do you go in and out of the balance between being visible but from what I hear from you is your sensibility is on the quieter side right you prefer to be invisible but in a in a way that is iconic I mean I don't know there's not there's not like a method to it I just go by feeling It's how do I feel?

53:46That is the biggest marker for me. I can be around somebody and it's not like, oh, I get a weird vibe. It really is so much of intuition and feeling. And sometimes we have to do things we don't like. That's just the way that it is. And you chomp the bit and you go. And God knows a lot of my life has been as such. but I think the invisible part is interesting I remember in the mid-2000s there was a journalist that had interviewed me and she coined me as the invisible supermodel and I was like what does that mean but then I understood that because she knew that I really took my private life as such and I you know that was out of protection and self-preservation I was dating, you know, a rock star who, Brandon's still one of my best friends, you know, five, we dated for almost five years.

54:46And it was a lot to just already handle my own being in the public eye and then with him. And we had a lot of fun with it. I feel like you really have to listen to yourself and what your limitations and your boundaries are. And we don't always have to be visible. I think it's something that we get conditioned in this industry and other industries of the like, which is, oh, you know, if you're not out there, people, they're not going to want you. There's actually something to be said for mystery. And I think and I hope that more people are going to want that. But we hear the word authenticity a lot.

55:28It's overused. You know, it's okay. But it's mystery. I just don't want to know everything. I don't want to know what you had for lunch today. Maybe one day, depending on my mood, I might want to know. Or maybe if it's a Japanese recommendation. Maybe, yes, exactly. That's when we want to know. It's a different story. Yeah, if I like it. But also, we're living in such a time of judgment. we are not only judging others we are judging ourselves to the point of exhaustion it is it's just so much i think you know people say oh there's going to be this backlash with social media i don't see it happening in fact if anything you know it's par for the course it's the necessary evil but how do you choose to balance that and here comes the word again It's discipline.

56:20That's the only way. I bought that brick. Sometimes I just have to take a time out. And over the years, my agent would get so mad. What do you mean you're going to go live in Ojai? What do you mean you're going to live on a farm upstate? I just need a break right now. It's not forever. It could be two months. It could be six months. And you're establishing your own rules. Yes. And I will be better. Don't worry. I'm going to come back. I'm not ready to go away. But I just need this. And when I will be a better performer, because at the end of the day, at the end of the day, I'm a performer. That's what we're doing is it's performance driven.

56:56And you're setting you're setting your boundaries and you're setting your standards and and ultimately just standing up for yourself. I do have a hard time with it, with the social media, because I don't have the numbers I'm supposed to have. And it's a you know, I it's a love hate. only the love is when I go on the search page and it's like gardens and cooking and dogs and you know things that I really like I wanted to wrap this up with talking about beauty standards you're in your 50s I mean I sit across from you you're barely wearing any makeup which is very annoying or at least the makeup artist is very talented and makes you look like he's very talented, but also I have the best products.

57:41Yes, you do. You have to give yourself credit. But you are, there's a simplicity in your beauty and that's been part of your longevity. It's classic. When you think of, and what you see online, when we speak about beauty, there are injectables, there's a version of someone that is unrecognizable. I mean, And when you see that, what do you think and how do you hold up true to who you are when the world is trying to push us into so many directions? It's really difficult because I'm at that age where so many of my peers, you know, there's a lot of whispers. Oh, did she? Didn't she? And about facelifts, which I think, great.

58:30Sign me up. I've been doing my research. I have no shame. and saying that I will happily when I decide and if it works for me. And I think it's whatever makes anybody feel good. The pressure that, you know, we've put on one another for this, you know, perfect face, you know, the perfect lips and eyes. I mean, it's really just, I don't know. I think it's run its course. I think it's going to get back to individuality. And, you know, we're all there's always going to be something, you know, it could be hair color, it could be butt lift, it could be a facelift, it could be lips, it's it could be the newest sweater.

59:16It's just another trend. It's whatever makes you feel good. And that's all that matters. And of course, we worry about the imprint that it has on the younger generation. And And, well, that's our responsibility as a parent, but you can only do so much there, too. So I think embracing, you know, loving yourself, but embracing your talents and, you know, in a world where it's so much about, like, I don't know, just the fame, you know. Such a terrible word. It's a horrible word. And a horrible action. It's, well, some people just can't help it. Yeah. You know, there are leading. It is addictive. I mean, the little.

1:00:01Being in the spotlight is addictive. It's addictive. It is. And it's easier for me to sit here and say, oh, you know, you know, I'm not in any way putting it like in a negative context, at least trying not to, because it has its pros and cons. but I feel like I sometimes I miss the days of like when is the fireman going to be the hero when is the teacher going to be the hero again and the scientist oh I love a scientist yeah I nerd out on that so much we've been doing some a lot of work with Stanford longevity and it's just so much it's fascinating it's fascinating and I feel like we're at an amazing intersection with science we are we're like at the cusp of breakthroughs that we're slowly witnessing in our generation it's it is an exciting time it's can be scary you know with ai and so is life it is that that's kind of my take on it is you got to take a leap and just believe in it and hope that it works out for the best because it will it will i mean humans we're funny we're funny creatures we're quirky and funny and really and they're probably aliens among us who knows so is there something that you've yet to accomplish that you're striving for oh gosh yes yeah there are a lot of things that i'd still like to do some things that i would share and not share But I feel like in a weird way, I've only just begun because my daughter is where she is in her life.

1:01:45And it's almost like my 50s will be a whole new version of self-discovery. And I also don't want to stop. That curiosity is just going to be fed and healthily so. but I have a lot that I still want to do and I just don't think that there's any limitation maybe there's some things that I wanted to do back then that I could do now we are down to the very last pretty tough questions oh okay are they really tough I mean we'll see okay you have to tell me at the end what is something that you've had to unlearn oh gosh I've had to unlearn I've I had to unlearn people pleasing. It really like being too nice.

1:02:37That's not my job to take care of others. Maybe I learned that in my childhood, but I don't need to do it anymore. What is a routine that's helped shape your success? A routine that's, I would say, going back to the visualization. I really feel like that and then having a plan. What does six months from now look like? What does a year or two years look like? Having an idea of what it is that you want, as crazy as some of those goals may seem, just write them all out. What is a common misconception about you? Oh, gosh, maybe that I'm aloof. Oh. Yes, I've been told. It's funny, I hear aloof or that I'm just like really warm and kind of ethereal, but the aloof more so just because I'm more shy than people realize because I've learned to turn it on.

1:03:33But I actually preserve preservation, but I actually prefer to observe and just kind of check everything out a little bit. What is your relationship to perfection? Oh, we're done. It's over. Perfection and I are over. Yeah. Yeah. We're broken up. When did that train leave? We broke up probably about a year ago. Oh, it's fresh. We were in a long-term, very codependent relationship, Perfection and I. And we had to have a talk. And I said, you need to sit over there because this is not doing me any good anymore. and that is so freeing. It is so freeing. That's a successful breakup. Well, there were a few get-togethers, you know, getting back.

1:04:28As one does. Yes. You know, what is something that makes you feel tough? Something that makes me feel tough would be my tribe of women. My daughter, my tribe. I think when we all band together, it's like goddess warriors. and something that makes you feel pretty I guess self care self love, self care but also when I feel feminine and I can receive I think is when I feel I'm most beautiful we have to end with that note this was wonderful, thank you Carolyn

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1:05:52Support for the show comes from Honest. When you're a professional athlete, you hold yourself to the highest of standards. And as a parent, you got to keep that same energy. So when it comes to essentials for your baby, choose Honest, the mother of all standards. They make hypoallergenic dermatologist tested baby essentials, and they're all made with rigorous ingredient assessment, safety testing, and thoughtful design. From honest, clean-conscious wipes to bath and body essentials and diapers, your peace of mind starts with honest. Shop honest on Amazon, Walmart, and Target.

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