Why Malala is Betting Big on Women's Sports

27:16And I love that side of you because you have this soft composure about you. But I know underneath there is a competitive juice that flows into every work that you do. Just only in sports. Honestly, I'm a very peaceful person. Like I do promise that. But when it comes to sports, I get very competitive. In golf, I'm like, I want to express my emotions. Why not? If it's a bad, you know, swing, it's a bad swing. I try not to, but yeah, the thought does come to my mind. Yeah. Do you have road rage in the golf cart? Do I have? Road rage in the golf cart. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Honking. Honestly, like, so Asa and I have been together, you know, married for almost five years now.

28:01We have never really had like a big fight where we said, I am not going to talk to you. and we had that once and that was at a golf course because we kind of like fell off and you know who gets to do a who gets to have a mulligan or you know it's sort of like I was really frustrated with my golf performance that day it's like when I don't do well in golf then like I just want to cry I get so grumpy and he's like don't be grumpy but I'm like there's nothing I can do about it you're like I don't have another option right now

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30:07Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans.

30:38You've won a Nobel Peace Prize, but around the same time, you lost a campaign for student counsel at your school. Yes. That must have been wild. Just managing, just the thought of managing those contrast. How did you handle that defeat in a moment that was so significant in your life? I was actually upset when I found out that I lost this school head girl position. It was difficult because my goal was to be seen in this high school and to be more visible and to probably make more friends. Because when you become more visible, then more people look at you. and I would you know have these quiet moments like sitting alone at lunch or you know just having one friend only and feel like I could never get that time just you know when you're like just chatting with your friends and giggling together so when I lost it just felt like oh maybe like you know it's kind of like reaffirms that fear that you have that maybe not enough people like you or want to support you or see you in that role.

31:52But after that, I was like, you know what, it's part of the experience. So I became, then they voted me as the deputy head girl. So I was still in like the leadership group, but I was like, okay, you know, there's not everything that you can get in life. And, you know, it's, you know, and I was still, you know, a girl and just being able to like process these emotions was important for me. And, you know, and it's just like weird, like, you know, on the one hand, you are, you see it as completely normal to win a Nobel Peace Prize and you are like not sort of like overly, you know, thrilled or, you know, but on the other hand, like you lose the head girl position and it's just devastating.

32:41Yeah. Isn't that crazy how that works out in life where... We think that during our greatest victory or biggest achievement that we would feel this huge rush of emotion and victory. But the feeling is more internal than external. And the moments that are just so difficult and bring us to our knees, it really brings us to our knees. Yes. I grew up as this girl from the north of Pakistan. And my dream was to get the best education, do really well in schools and have lots of friends. So for me, like that was something that I could not separate from myself. and of course like you know I have this dream to make this world a more equal place for girls and create opportunities for them but in the end like I was a girl myself and I also wanted to have friends and be seen and and and just have that you know life that I had envisioned for myself but of course circumstances change everything for me so yeah but I was you know still trying making these attempts.

33:51Yeah. I also find that we sometimes underestimate the challenges that come with winning. Is there a recent victory that you had where you really had to keep your eyes on the prize? I've been supporting the Afghan women's soccer team in exile. They are based in Australia. They were evacuated when the Taliban took over because the Taliban were like breaking into their houses and finding proof if these girls had played sports. So the girls had actually buried their uniform and hidden their trophies so the Taliban would not find any proof. And some of them were lucky that they were brought to Australia.

34:32And despite all of those challenges, you know, for them, the only way to have some hope was to be able to play football, soccer. And it was shocking for me when I heard that FIFA had not responded and there was no support offer to them. So in 2022, I went to Australia to see the Women's World Cup. And I also met the Afghan women's team. And I was like, yes, you know, they deserve to play. So I joined them in their campaign to push FIFA to recognize them as the national team of the country. And, you know, it took us like nearly four years, you know, writing op-eds and speaking about it at conferences.

35:10And And one time, Natalie Portman joined me and the Afghan women's team's former captain to do a conversation. And through, you know, those kinds of steps, it takes such a long time. But finally, we were able to reach to someone at FIFA. And that's where the conversation started. And it was, you know, just like a few months ago that FIFA now proudly announced publicly that they recognize the Afghan women's team as the national team of the country and that they will be supporting them. This is just the start. Because when we look at these rules and regulations, they are supposed to help the athletes.

35:49And FIFA rules do say that every country has to have a men's and women's team and cannot exclude girls from playing sports. But this is the reality that Afghan girls are living under the Taliban. They, you know, their system of gender apartheid do not allow girls to play sports or go to school or go to work. So I'm so glad that, you know, FIFA has realized that, you know, it has so much power and they can, you know, they should change the rules because the rules are for the players and not for some oppressive, you know, gender apartheid regime. So I'm very happy that the Afghan women's team will be able to play.

36:30So this is for me like a story of success, but it's still like we still have a long way to go, you know. And I also sense that the lesson there is you were knocking on their door for four years. And when they opened the door, your thought is, I didn't win. This is just the beginning. Yes, because we want to prepare the Afghan women's team for the next World Cup. So, yeah. So let's talk about Recess Capital. This is a platform that you and Asur are building to promote gender equality and just change the dynamic of sports ownership, especially for women. Take me back to a conversation that the two of you had when you thought of launching this venture.

37:16so asar and i have been very passionate about sports he has worked in cricket and i am just a big fan of watching sports and growing up it was cricket but now i enjoy all sports and for me it was this this you know question around like when would we be able to see women's sports strive the same way as men's sports has. And there were many moments, there wasn't just one moment, but there were like a few moments that made me realize that maybe it's time for us to do something. So one time we were talking to somebody who was telling us about a new sport league. And I don't want to give too much information, but I said, well, you're starting the league.

38:02So you're going to do it for the women as well. And it said, they said, no, we're going to start with the men's one first. And then we'll see, you know, like when it's the time and maybe you will join us and we'll do something about women's sports. And that's when I realized that actually women's sports is not on the agenda. It's not even like a second thought for some of them. They were talking to the wrong person. Yes. Yes. So. Or the right person. For me, like I was thinking about it purely as a consumer, as an audience. And I said, like, I want to see more women's sports. I want to see it on my television.

38:39I want to see it at stadiums. I want to see women's cricket and women's soccer and women's basketball. All of these things like just like thrive the same way that men's sports are. And you realize, OK, like actually there there is a gap. And so then my husband and I started doing research and we started going to women's games and started connecting with women athletes, getting their thoughts and ideas as well. Then we realized, OK, we can actually do something here because it needs a platform. It needs more capital because women's sports or anything that, you know, we talk about for women, people often just put it in the charity bucket and they're like, oh, you know, social good, all of that.

39:23And I said, like, no, I think that's where the gap is, because a lot of the times people just do not put enough capital into it. So women's sports ends up being like a small kind of a school stadium event or like a small school playground kind of event. And outside the city, quite far. The kids table at a wedding. Yes, exactly. So if you're not putting enough capital into it and then you don't see results and then you blame it on women's sports itself. that, oh, it just can't bring enough audience. But in the past few years, we have seen that women's sports attendance has broken records. The streaming is like, viewership is also crazy.

40:07You know, just to see like women's basketball is getting more viewership than some men's sports. That's amazing. But when you look at their valuations, they're still, you know, really low because it's undervalued, it's underinvested. And then there comes the opportunity to invest in it, to put more capital into it. And for me, like I have a platform, the engagement of younger people and this incredible network of artists. And I also have a production company and I love storytelling as well. And I love connecting with communities. I love making it more of a global conversation. So we are going to be bringing all of that into the investments that we make.

40:47So I'm so thrilled to be investing in like women's sports teams and leagues and supporting the women's sports ecosystem, supporting like youth sports for girls especially. So there's a lot that is going to be done. So Asura and I are on this journey. We have an amazing team and we have Billie Jean King and her partner, Elana, on our advisory board as well. So, you know, what else? You have the dust board. Exactly. So we're going to get it right. Yes. You know, it's proving the business case of women's sports and making an impact, which is gender equity. So we have Billie Jean King and we have nothing else, you know, we have nothing to worry about.

41:23And you launched the fund in 2025, but this has been in the work for many years. Is there a particular challenge that you look back during that time that you had to get through? Was it the skepticism? Was it the, you know, people not leagues, you know, team owners not believing in women's sport particularly? Like, was there a specific challenge that you had to overcome? Because I have been talking to so many people for a very long time, I actually saw how the narrative changed because of the whole Caitlin Clark effect. So a lot of people were interested in women's sports, but they just couldn't, they were like, it's too early.

42:04I don't think it's going to work. And they were just not sure about like the women's sports following and like how it's going to bring together a whole different audience. and, you know, Caitlin Clark has really changed the narrative. The narrative. So then everybody talks about like the Caitlin Clark effect and like the before and after of that. And now like we're seeing like the numbers are just telling us the story. We don't have to. Numbers don't lie. Because at the time we were really pushing for it. And now we're like, you know, here are the numbers. You have to speak less. It's exactly.

42:41I mean, like women's sports every year is just like breaking records. We went to the Denver football game. It was their home game and it just started this year and it broke the attendance record. 63 ,000 people attended that game. And I was one of them and I just felt like so thrilled to be seen. Can you imagine what that's like for the players? I mean, I think the largest stadium I ever competed on was perhaps 20 ,000. Yes. I mean, 60 ,000. Yes. The amount of pressure. Yes. From an athlete's perspective. It's beautiful pressure, but it's intense. What I loved was how diverse the crowd was. So women's soccer is actually attracting families, little girls, little boys.

43:30And there's just a sense of community. and the moment I love the most is like when little boys are cheering for the women soccer players. And I'm just imagining this like whole new generation and the many generations after them for whom it will be completely normal to see women on the field. And that is the change that we're witnessing. I think, you know, the generations that, you know, that we are in or like the ones before, For them, some of them never believe and may never believe in women's sports. Some are actually looking at the numbers and they're like witnessing it. They're like, wow, we are, you know, we're changing our perspective on this.

44:15But there's a whole new generation to come, the younger ones for whom it will be just normal. Yes, everybody gets to play sports. And how does your perspective shift from working on activism and not profits for so many years to working within a venture fund that is all for profit, right? Mostly that is a business venture. How do you think about the two, right? Because I think it takes a certain amount of knowledge and experience to think of it as a revenue business. Yes. So the work that I have been doing through nonprofit is for girls' education. And I want girls to have quality education so that they can go and follow their dreams and so that they can become financially independent.

45:12Financial independence is just so crucial. Like, no matter where you come from and what your family background is and who you marry or any of that, you just need to be able to stand on your own two feet and have financial independence because that's such a, you know, like, it's essential. It's essential, especially for women and girls. So, you know, like, so for me, like, you know, when I am reflecting on like, or do I want to be in a nonprofit space or for profit space? I'm like, I want to be in both spaces because what I don't want to tell girls is that make compromises or aspire to get less or don't make money for yourself.

45:58That is like the wrong message. education. I'm promoting education for them because I want them to know that they deserve more and they can get more and they should be asking for more and they should be expecting more. So because that's how you bled your life. Yes. Like I want women to, you know, to be financially independent and to be in businesses and to make money and to send this message to the next generation of girls as well that be ambitious and be bold and do good work, but also don't hesitate in being in a business and making money. And you can decide what you want to do with that. And there's just like, there are so many opportunities that you can explore.

46:44So when I think about women's sports as a business opportunity, I want people to know that women's Sports is a profitable business the same way that men's sports is. It's exciting and it's different and unique in its own way. It's attracting a whole new audience that we haven't seen before. And it's going to give you the returns. And it's also going to have that social impact side to it as well. It will inspire girls. It will build confidence and self-esteem among them. Sports is a critical part of education for me. And I think that by investing in women's sports teams and leagues and the ecosystem, we will also be encouraging sports as part of education as well.

47:30So there's just like so much to explore there. I feel like it's just the beginning of this movement. Yes. You know, female athletes are so dynamic. They have so many responsibilities and they're able to show up for all of them. the beauty and and today is that they now have a platform they're now able to tell their story and we get to know so much more about them so we are a more educated fan because we know where they came from how hard it took to get to where they are today and even if they haven't won the greatest prize in their sport we get to witness them and watch them through these ups and downs of their career.

48:13And it's a really important point because, you know, when we look at the whole history, like women athletes are not paid enough and they have to think about a second and third job as part of their sports career. So for them, like sports become more of a part-time thing and they always have to, you know, make these compromises. So there's just like so much that needs to be addressed in terms of like maternity care and, you know, also the apparel, all of these things that like most of it is not even designed for women. No concept of like looking into like menstrual cycles around how training happens.

48:53And that's when you realize the way sports is designed right now is for men. It's not designed for women. And I believe that women's sports should be seen as a for-profit business because we want the athletes, the players to make money. You know, why are we sort of making it okay for like male players to be making, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars contracts and it's like a success moment. And then for women, it's too much and they're too demanding and the business won't succeed if they ask for more kind of that kind of arguments that we hear. I'm like, don't worry. This will succeed. The demand is there.

49:34More and more people want to watch it. We want to watch it on like the main television stage, center court, the center arena, the big field. Exactly. From tennis to soccer to cricket. And we want to, you know, when we turn on our television, we should not be like going through every channel, like, where can I find it? No, it should be on the main TV channels because the demand is there. Now we need to work on the supply side of it. Did you ever anticipate going into business with your husband? No, never, never, never. Tell me more. I just, I didn't know like, you know, how we would sort of live together.

50:14I thought the only thing we might be doing together was just go to cricket games because, you know, I was like, okay, he's a cricket guy. That's what couples do. Yes. Or I was like, maybe he'll join me at like one or two events. But he's been the best life partner. Honestly, you know, I remembered like, you know, in the beginning, we're just like recently married. And then I had this interview, but it was very early in the morning. And he had like woken up before at 5am or something, set up my laptop, and the lighting and everything, and ordered breakfast for me. and when I was up and getting ready, I was like, wow, I could not have asked for a better husband than this.

51:00He is so caring. I can confirm my husband did not do that this morning. Well, well, well. You need to have a talk with him. I know. Because those are fantastic standards that I can get used to. Thanks to Amazon Prime for supporting this episode. Excuses are easy. An epic movie night? We don't have enough snacks. Dinner party with the girls? We'd need new play settings. Surprise date night? Nothing to wear. But Amazon Prime's same-day delivery lets you say yes and jump before the moment slips away. So when the mood strikes, try that new popcorn maker. Order those cheeky drink glasses. Get that new perfume.

51:40And turn that I wish we could into an I'm so glad we did. Visit amazon.com slash prime to find millions of items delivered fast. same day delivery it's on prime available in select areas terms apply fall is here and that means the pumpkin spice latte is back at starbucks it's the one we've been waiting for so whether you're a fan of the original pumpkin spice latte or ready to mix it up with an iced pumpkin cream chai the new iced pumpkin cream matcha or the new iced pumpkin cream shaken espresso you can find your favorite taste of fall only at starbucks this episode is brought to you by ChatGPT.

52:19Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans.

52:52You've met some of the biggest leaders of the world, Barack Obama, Queen Elizabeth, the UN Secretary General. Most of us aren't sitting with people like that, but still, you have to prepare for some of the most important meetings of your career. What advice would you have for those meetings? When I sit in that room opposite a policymaker, a leader, I am not there to speak on my behalf. I'm there to speak on behalf of girls, girls I have met in Iraq, in Brazil, in Ethiopia, girls whose stories I hear from Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, all over the world. So in that moment, I actually talk to them in their voice.

53:44So then I don't have to worry about how I look and what word did I mess up or did I remember everything. but I just try to stay very calm and just, you know, tell them that, you know, you have made a commitment to make this world a more equal place for girls. You talk about gender equity and here are the challenges that we face. So just telling them like, you know, it's, I'm trying to remind you of what your commitment is and you will be true to your commitment if you look at these issues that girls are facing. And when you're in those rooms or you're on a stage doing a TED talk and you get distracted, right?

54:30Whether it's somebody says something or, you know, you think of something, how do you focus back in on the subject matter? Because I'm sure our audience has faced many of those moments. Like, what is there something, is there a piece of advice? You know, sometimes I think of like when I'm, you know, in front of hundreds of people or doing a panel, whether there's some pressure or I feel nervous, I always like to lock eyes with one individual. So it makes me feel like it's just myself and them in the room and not everyone else. Are there little like pieces of advice that you think of when you feel nervous?

55:09I feel like I'm kind of like looking at people, but I'm not looking at the people. That's how it was when I played. Yeah. Because I was like, do you hear what they're saying? I was like, well, I'd be silly if I said I didn't. Yeah. But not I'm not single focused on them. Yeah. Another thing is pauses. So when you take a pause, it feels very long to you personally. You're like, did I pause for like a minute? No, it was just a second. So do take pauses because that is really helpful for you to gather your thoughts and just, you know, come back to the point that you are trying to make. Um, yeah, yeah.

55:49And just, you know, even if you get distracted, it's okay. Like it's, you know, it's normal. It's kind of like meditation. They say distractions are actually quite good. Yeah. Because it gives you a chance to recenter. And honestly, the audience is there just to listen to you. So you can take as long as you want. You know, you're someone that's willing to admit when you've gotten something wrong. I mean, you even had a TED Talk that was called What I Got Wrong About Changing the World. Yes. I know many women face that and feel the need to apologize for it. But what guidance would you have to own up to an heir in a way that doesn't necessarily undermine your excellence and all the great that you've done?

56:34I think that the challenge right now is that on social media, on these public platforms, we are really exposed. And if our story is heard at a certain point in our life, people have that fixed image of us. And, you know, we grow. We change as a person, just like everyone else. We are learning each and every day. We make mistakes. but people just like are just seeing you in that from that one lens and and and I would like you know us to challenge that for me like you know I have changed so much from when I was 17 years old to today like I'm you know 28 29 and and like if I were the same person I would be like that is that is a failure you know because i want to grow i want to change i want to learn new things and no matter what you've achieved up to date yes you know it's back to the story of knocking on the door and saying no i didn't win i didn't win right i still have so much more work to do and whether it's a personal growth yes or whether it's in your in your job or in your relationship it's like your family it's always evolving friends your you know, your work, how you are trying to like do all of these things in your life.

57:55So for me, like just accepting that you will be evolving, you will be growing as a person. A lot of times we focus on the destination and we identify with this version of success and, you know, and sometimes that's because of an external pressure or sometimes that's just an expectation that we had of ourselves. And most often when we reach that destination, we're like, this is it? That's it? Well, I thought that there would be it would be a deeper feeling, right? It'd be like this elation and excitement. But you reach it and you're like, well, I want to keep going. You know, and I felt that in sport for so long.

58:39And I imagine, you know, in business and these small victories that you've gained in your career and the doors that you have opened for women. It's like this little piece of pleasure and excitement, but you wake up the next morning and you want to do it all over again. Yeah. And, you know, like when I started this journey, it was me fighting for my right to be school. Then when I received so much global support, I made it into a mission to help other girls go to school. And now I'm on this pathway where I'm like, I should not be the only one who is seen as this activist for girls' education, because actually that's not the reality.

59:23There are so many incredible girls out there who are leading movements. They're changing their communities. They're talking to stakeholders. Their voices are just like not appreciated, not heard. They are, you know, they deserve the same support. So like through the Malala Fund work, now we are giving grants to girl-led and young women-led organizations. And we want to like keep increasing that because I am like, why should my organization be sort of an exception, which is, you know, like when I look back, yes, Malala Fund was started by me when I was like 15 or 16 years old. But I believe there are other girls who are doing the work and they also need the support.

1:00:09So I'm like, through Malala Fun, I'll start that. And I hope that more and more organizations are stepping forward and not just talking about girls, not just inviting them to give an inspirational speech, but actually investing in them and funding their work and really like matching their determination because nobody is more determined to change things for girls than girls themselves. So yeah, these are the things that like when I think about the future, I'm like, this is the shift that I want to see. And it's really important for us to talk about like women's ownership in sports, especially. So, you know, that's something that I'm really keen on through Recess Capital.

1:00:56We have been talking to more women investors because I just had this passion. I said, I just want to see more women, not just on the field, but also in the owner's box. Because it makes a difference. And I sometimes think about the Ted Lasso show, because Ted Lasso, you know, gets a lot of the credit and applause, but I'm like, It was actually Rebecca, the team owner, who helped change the culture. She allowed room for this conversation to change. So we do need more Rebecca's. We do need women managers, women owners. We need women at all levels in sports. So that's something I'm excited about.

1:01:39You've devoted so much of your life to others, to young women who have so much potential and growth but don't necessarily have an open door. And you've opened so many doors for them. What do you do for yourself? When do you think of yourself and how do you do that? Because I know how important that is in our fast-paced world to take care of ourselves because we then show up for others in the best possible version. Yeah. But you've devoted so much of your time and your life to other people. And as I was thinking about this interview, I just want to know what do you do for yourself to stay healthy, to stay sane, to mentally challenge yourself?

1:02:31I have always believed that I have to live a selfless life. And I have valued everything that I have received in my life so much that I'm like, every girl deserves it. Every girl deserves to be in a safe place. Every girl deserves to have access to education. And every girl deserves to follow her dreams. And when you don't have those opportunities, when you see the absence of it, then you start to value it more. So I remember when I was 11 and I couldn't go to school. I I remember at age 15, recovering from the Taliban shooting. And I'm like, no girl should face this anywhere in the world. So it is that dream that, you know, just keeps me going in life.

1:03:13And I'm like, if I could give my every moment, my every minute of life to this cause, like, I will. And if I can be in all the places in the world where children are suffering, I will. Like I care about children in Afghanistan, children in Gaza, children in Brazil, children in India, Pakistan, in every part of the world because they deserve a better, peaceful life. They should be playing. They should be in schools. Their school should not be bombed. They should not be banned from education. But at the same time, I was also just reflecting on like, how can I do this better? because I remember like not sleeping enough, not eating well, not even being able to like concentrate on my work and struggling with mental health as well.

1:04:01But, you know, when I reached that point in my life when I felt like it was, you know, it just tore me apart, it broke me down and I went through like a lot of panic attacks and anxiety and I was diagnosed with PTSD. you know this was this was all a part of my my life journey and it it was left unaddressed so it you know in in college time it sort of like tore me apart and then I was like okay it's now a step by step process so I started just by talking to friends about it and then I started getting therapy that changed everything for me I had to unlearn a lot of things and relearn a lot of things like, you know, bravery and courage.

1:04:41For me, it was all about, you know, suppressing my fear. And when I was becoming anxious and going through PTSD, I realized that actually bravery is when you keep doing what you believe in, even when you are scared. So I had to embrace this new part of me, the one with a little bit of fear in her heart and anxiousness, but still was doing the work. and then getting back more into looking after my physical health because physical health and mental health are connected so eating well drinking a lot of water like drink lots of water yes and eat well and sleep well um you know it's all the basic basic things they're essential that we forget to be mindful about so then i realized like yes you know for like it's my fuel You know, I can't just expect myself to be running and to be doing everything when I'm not giving that fuel to myself, recharging myself.

1:05:41So, you know, and I want people to know, like, this is a more realistic image of what an activist life should look like. And not running yourself to the ground. It is part of your activism. Don't feel like you are looking away from the activism that you are doing. It's actually a part of it. Leaning into it. Yes. so this this is the picture of it as a whole so in short it's simple look after yourself and you'll be able to do whatever you're passionate about in a much better way I mean even as I asked that question you begin the answer I mean it's so admirable how you begin the answer with speaking about others and that's just it's a testament to who you are and your journey and from a little girl to now someone in their 30s.

1:06:33So we are in our lightning round. We have a few pretty tough questions left. The first one is, what is something that you've had to unlearn? As an activist in the nonprofit space, you can't be focused on the for-profit business side. And it was my husband who helped me see it very differently. And I was like, okay, it's important for us not only to prioritize that financial independence for ourselves, but also encourage girls into this. So I hope that more and more women come forward and speak about it openly. And we encourage each other. We support each other. So I'm really passionate about financial literacy and like supporting women's sports as a business opportunity.

1:07:21And hopefully like unlocking more capital for women. Because when you talk about equality, it's not just about guaranteeing these rights for girls in a law or in some convention at the UN, but it's, you know, that real power, real autonomy. me. And I think, you know, when we see a shift in the capital ownership, like who is it that has the, you know, the real financial power, it makes a huge difference when we, you know, and I think it will be changing in the years to come. We need to encourage girls into just becoming financially independent. What is the routine that's helped shape your success?

1:08:06The number one thing for me is not going on my phone in the morning in bed. I just wake up and just go to the bathroom, you know, brush your teeth, wash your face. And then I added another thing to it, which was taking a cold shower in the morning. So I take a cold shower. Have you done the cold baths yet? No, not those ones. You know, one by one. So you're starting with the shower. It's going to get in the bath. Yes. I think it really helps to like sort of set you awake for the day. I don't know how you do the no phone. Yeah, it's optional. I'm not saying it's highly. No, no. I wish I could. I don't have that discipline like you do.

1:08:46It really helps. Is there a common misconception about you? I think people think that I'm just like a very serious person and like so boring and all of that. I'm like, no, guys, I can be funny and super chill. And honestly, because... Your sense of humor is wicked. Thank you. And, I mean, we've had a few lunch dinners where I'm like, behind this cool collected lady is a very funny individual. It helps. And it comes unexpectedly. I think humor is therapeutic. It helps me a lot. And sometimes when I'm just, you know, at a dinner or something, I just want to laugh and giggle and, you know, throw in a joke.

1:09:25Yeah, contribute. That's all. Exactly. Exactly. Do you have a relationship to perfection? it's a tough question to answer because i would immediately say no but i do think there is a part of me that is just demanding and i do communicate this message to like people that they have to be bold and ambitious um i recently gave a ted talk so in that i you know i was telling the story of like how I was perceiving change and then how my perspective has changed because, you know, I have been in this activism for such a long time that I realized actually there is, you know, no right or, you know, perfect way.

1:10:10You just have to like start with something. You just have to initiate the conversation because that spark is really important and also realize the importance of working together with others. It's not about one person because when we all join hands and work together, we are more powerful, more impactful. And the final part was just being bold and ambitious in our dreams because we have to dream big to make it easier and better for the ones after us. What makes you feel tough since this podcast is called Pretty Tough? By weightlifting. I'm strong great answer and is there something that makes you feel pretty?

1:10:53oh when I do a bit of makeup and put on my lip gloss and yeah a little glam goes a long way and put on my favorite shoes I'm a shoes person we're on the same page Malala thank you so much you're so generous with your time I love the times when we get to sit with our husbands and discuss the future and the world. And your perspective is always so inspiring. So to have this conversation that will reach an audience that will be so inspired to hear from you. Thank you. Truly an honor to be here with you. Thank you so, so much.