Zoe Saldaña: How I Became the Highest-Grossing Actor of All Time

30:06So trusting their guidance, their experience and, you know, and leaning in when they stepped in. And so like when I say that, I don't want to be so ambiguous. It's my team of publicists. They've been there before. They've dealt with a lot of controversy. And our film started out very linear. And there was a clear path. And then we were diverted a lot. And there was a lot of scrutiny and a lot of sort of controversy. And it was very disheartening and very confusing. And, you know, very upsetting. It was very upsetting. So leaning into my team, also my managers like Rick Yorn and Amy Kava, they were just chill.

30:55Everybody stepped in. Everybody stepped in. My family also stepped in and friends, colleagues calling me from all over in our industry, checking in. I leaned in a lot. And I kind of like, then it was kind of like this autopilot kind of thing where I wasn't just leading the path. I was being led. and that allowed me to remain present a lot more and to keep my heart clean because there was just a lot of things that were very confusing for me. And everybody kept reminding me, you are allowed to enjoy this. You are allowed to be happy because you deserve this. And your film deserved to be where it is.

31:38And your performance. Everybody's performances deserve to be acknowledged. but also this level of controversy that's coming up is here and we also have to tackle it and process it and reflect on it so that's that's what we did so all in all it was a very all-encompassing experience that had a lot of good so many highs and lows so it was life it was very it was very real and and I appreciated everything that I walked away with and when you woke up the next morning and that golden nugget was there. It was there. Do you think back to moments of criticism of people that weren't believing in you and your ability and sometimes perhaps in your own belief?

32:29I mean, for a minute, for a minute, I've never been like, I like the future. I don't wallow in the past, you know, but it did for a minute. I kind of like All my bullies flashed before my eyes. So it did come up. It did make me smirk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It did bring a grin to my face. Come on, I want to see the Latina in there. I was, I was. And I think I told my family, my partner, and my sisters, and my mom. And thank God I told really good people because they're the ones that kind of go, I know, but be great. They remind me, don't sit in there. Don't go too deep. Exactly. Don't let that ego out of order.

33:12Put that ego back in place. It's not about them as it's always been. It's never been. It's not about what they got. It's about what you have. Yeah.

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34:10Being at the top of the mountain, right, of highest grossing, you know, female actor, you are an Oscar winner. Sometimes when you come home, do you say, what is next? Yes, one day maybe directing. That's one thing. I think as an actor, the only perils of being an actor for someone like me who likes to be in control is the lack of control that an actor has. An actor is always at the mercy of someone else's vision. And when an actor really cares, which like for someone like me, like when I care, I care and I'm all in. It's so much so that sometimes I imagine the story to be in such a defined way that it's hard for me to see it anywhere else as anything else.

35:01And, um, so I would, I would want to experiment with that. I would want to challenge, I would want to bet on myself in the future and, and tell a story from beginning to end from my vision. And, um, I'm learning so much by watching my husband do it. And, and I've learned so much by watching so many other people do it. I, I like producing as well. I produce with my sisters and we like, we like, you know, producing stories where women are at the helm. whether they're producers, directors, writers, and actresses, we want women to be able to tell more stories. You've also been someone that's moved between these worlds of life.

35:43And Emilia Perez, you finally got to act in your native Spanish. Yes. And you've said it's the first language you've received love in. Yeah. Which is such a beautiful way to put it. Describe those two worlds of when you play a character in English versus the way you played in Spanish. Well, your first language, because you're a daughter of immigrants, right? Yes. What was your first language? Russian. Russian. So when you were rocked, if you fell and you scraped your knee and they came over and they had those little terms of endearment, whatever, you know, like, it's like if you had a fever and it was like your grandmother's chicken soup.

36:25Everything that was forming me before I had use of reason was in Spanish. So beauty, the power of love is in Spanish for me. My voice goes into a different, you know, tone, a different inflection. The moment,

36:51So it's almost like I've been code switching my whole life without even knowing, because that's what it's like to be a bilingual person. But you also have a third language at home. Now, yes, I picked it up after a decade, after more than a decade with my partner. It's like, you have to, you have to pick it up in order for you to know what they're saying about you. How does that work at home with your kids? It's beautiful. How do you shift through the languages? And here's one thing that I had to analyze when I had my children, and I acknowledged that I'm a first generation and not an immigrant myself, is that I speak Spanish consciously and unconsciously, but I can't control it.

37:36Same thing with English. When my kids were little and they were in my arms, I spoke to them the language that my mothers spoke to me. But the moment they began walking and talking and reasoning with themselves and with us, English is my critical thinker. It's my academic sort of language, right? So I formed on my bond, my intellectual bond with my children through English. and my family and my husband's family were very hard on me. Also my husband, because, you know, he's an immigrant and they were just like, you're not speaking to them in Spanish and Italian. You're not. I'm like, people, you need to sit down.

38:15I was born here. We are raising our children here. I cannot, for the sake of any language, of any culture, abandon the bond that I need to form with them. If they need me to meet them in English, I have to meet them in English. Because when we send them out to schools, they're being educated in English. So they're already code switching without even knowing that they're doing that. I'm going through that right now. However, I do talk to them in Spanish a lot. My husband talks to them in Italian 80 % of the time. So they understand it. They speak it. And now that they're getting all those compliments about it, then they're proud.

38:57It makes them feel good. It makes them feel really good. Yeah. Last year, when we took our son to preschool for the first time, he spoke more Russian than he spoke English. And the teachers, the first few weeks had to translate his words on their phone to make sense of what he was saying. Oh my goodness. But I look back at it. Now he is speaking more English. Now he comes to me and he, you know, from school, he wants to speak English with me and I try to direct it back to Russian. It's my problem. Yes, it's our problem. It's not their problem. It's our problem. It's bilingual problems. I sense that the art of collaboration is incredibly important to you, whether it's your family or work.

39:45And in your work, you've spoken about making the first Avatar where everyone was still figuring it out. And there's one point where James Cameron looked to you and said, what do you think? Do you remember? Can you talk about a moment where that happened? Oh, from the very beginning. I remember I was the first person that he hired for the role of Natiri because I think it took him a lot harder to hire Sam for the role because the studio was pushing him towards no names, but he always knew he wanted Sam. It was easier for him. He booked me, I think, I would say a month or a month and a half before he was able to get Sam.

40:29And during that time, I moved myself from New York to Los Angeles so that I can be here and work with all the people that he was going to provide for me. And I would come in the afternoons to the studio and we would do some camera work with the gadgets that he was creating because he's such a scientist. And I remember very early on, he's like, this is Terry Notary and he's going to work with movement. This is Carla Meyer. She's going to work with dialect and Paul Frommer as well. And this is a horseback rider. This is the archer. These are all these plates. And he goes, I'm going to need your help in putting these humanoids together.

41:09And I was 26, 27. Wow. What a moment. But there was like, I always felt, every time I was talking to him in the first year, where I was like outside of myself. So I remember thinking, I'm talking to James Cameron and he wants me to build a Na 'vi with him. You know, and it was, that was the first time that I was able to create with my art and all my passion and my imagination of what I interpreted them to be. I would bring it over to him and he would go, I like that, that's interesting. We both discovered that we were both left-handed. So then he decided right then and there, the Navi are all going to be left-handed people.

41:50And I thought, that's so cool. How convenient. I mean, and the whole conversation around their tail and their tail and their tail, and it's almost like their fifth limb. So it dictates the way the neck moves. And, you know, is it more reptile? Is it more this? And I would go home and I would look at National Geographic videos on, I would say, on crocodiles or lionesses and trying to sort of understand where Natiri lied in terms of her rebellion as a princess, but her instincts as an Avi. And I would come to work and bring it all, all this knowledge, all these ideas, all these. And he was never like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

42:33He was always like, that's interesting, kiddo. Tell me more. Let's try this. Tell me more. Like, what do you think? And it was just great. It was putting them together with Jim and all of the team that assembled of Avengers, you know, was the highlight of my career. Still is. What were some of the lessons that James Cameron taught you? Try it. Just give everything a try. You know, fail forward. I like when he tries something and it doesn't work. You know, he takes the camera off. He goes, that didn't work. And then he just, you know, he giggles. He laughs to himself. And that causes all of us to laugh at the fact that we all failed at something miserably, but we failed forward and we failed together.

43:17To be relentless when you believe in something, even if others don't, just bet on yourself. I learned that from James Cameron because that man has made, created a legacy, a living legend out of just betting on himself over and over again. And if you're right, then everybody wins with you. And if you're wrong, at least you tried, you know? What a beautiful lesson. Yeah. At work. heck absolutely

43:49let's shift gears and talk about life at home yes you're married to an incredible man and a partner marco the way you say marco marco i mean i just me marquita it's so sexy

44:06but he is an artist and multidisciplinary he's the artist he is the artist I feel like I work in art Marco makes art yeah he makes art he directs films he makes beautiful sculptures but you said something as I was talking over here I'm so sorry multidisciplinary artist and I like that about him So when you come home and you're having dinner as a family, do you bring work to your home? Or is there a cutoff line? No, he does. But also, I mean, if he were here, he would immediately object because he's never brought work home. He brings home art. And he doesn't work in art. He makes art. So we eat art.

44:55We speak art. We listen to art. We make art. And you make it together, too. And we make it together. So he definitely argues with me a lot about that because I don't talk about work at all. Wow. I don't talk about work at all. I come home and I want to be home. I want to talk about life and people and persons and the interests of my children and what happened when I was away. What happened? And what happened to Dolce, my dog, Lenny, my cat, like life. And Marco will do that. Right. But then it's back to the sculpture. Yeah. The sculpture is not coming out. And the AI that I'm creating for the show is not coming out.

45:42What happened? How was the scene today? Because he knows exactly what I'm shooting. What you're doing. Exactly what he's creating. Because he's a director. Absolutely. But he's also a Pisces. So in that sense, it's like, it'll never be enough. Oh, good. He's like, we talked about it already. And he's like, no, but listen. And he's like, oh. It doesn't sound like an artist at all. It's never finished. But he's never finished. The piece is never finished. Ever, ever. I love many things about my partner, but I love the fact that he is such a people person. And he is a true artist. He's made of art.

46:13He will forever be an artist. And he needs to experience art through his five senses. And he's relentless about that. And I've become relentless about that. and I've expanded sort of my character, my life. You know, I'm a very hermit kind of person. I work and I come home and then I'm in bed. So relatable. Yes. And our husbands are so social. They're social and they need to connect with people and they can talk for hours. It gives them energy and then they connect with people and then they come home and they want to talk about their connection. Completely. So I'm like, why am I talking about Margaret?

46:52Let's talk about Alex. I mean, they're literally related. They're made for each other. They're made. And here we are. I know. Complaining about it. We always have the same face. Every time we sit at dinners, every time we've had dinners together, we sit at dinners and they're like, and we're like, oh, here we go. But then we have that one glass of wine. It's their show. It is their show. It's their show. And then you and I, we have that glass of wine and we loosen up. Yep. And then we're into it. We completely. Until we wake up in the morning, we're exhausted. Exhausted because it sets us off of our routine.

47:27It's so true. But what is it like, I mean, Alexander and I don't work together. What is it like being in Marco's film when he's directing your scene? It gets better and better. Oh, shit. It just, we learn, we really learn to see each other by being together and working together. I know now his love language is not to be tough on him. Like tough love doesn't work on someone like Marco. It's more, you have to be gentle. You have to be consistent and determined, but you do have to be gentle and be there for him. It's like, I see you. You're doing a wonderful job. But when we also did that short movie in Venice that went to the Biennale and then eventually it was in the short list for the Oscars.

48:12I was so proud of him. we we found ourselves in this like pivotal moment where he's he's I see how stressed he is because everybody has questions for him what about this and what about that one so now here I come last one going do you want me to put on the jacket now or put on the jacket when I exit the scene and he just gave me that look and I'm like oh I've seen that walk away we had to walk away because everybody was looking at us and we were going to start bickering in front of people and we we practiced. I don't know what he had in his hand. So I'm like, when I hold it, I speak. Don't interrupt me.

48:47And when you hold it, you speak and I will not interrupt you. And we only had like three minutes to fucking like, to make peace with whatever was going to happen. And we got through it and we realized, we locked eyes and we're like, we got it. We got this. Like we can work together. Like if we communicate this way. Pass the baton. Yes. Because what I wanted him to see is like, I am just like everybody else so if I have a question for you and we're on set I'm not going against you I need information like she needed it like he needed it don't think that I'm here to bust your balls even though I am I am gonna bust your balls like you know because that's our deal because we're married but not here I'm not questioning your authority like and he was like okay but in this moment I really you know so we heard each other and then we realized we can we We can work together.

49:38I need to interview Marco. He would be fantastic. He'll be like, my wife is amazing. She never, no. And I'm like, say the truth. He is amazing. He's what a great character. I have one boy. You have three. With your career and deciding to form a family and have children, did you think consciously of how it could potentially affect your career or limit your opportunities? Did that ever? No. And I'll tell you why. I have a very supportive partner at home that has never stayed quiet, has never not been vocal about how proud he is of me, of how much he can have my back. So he is the dreamer. He's sort of like a dreamer in the sense And I'm such a realist to the point that I can be a little negative sometimes.

50:37So Marco is that one that if I go, no, we can't really afford this. We can't do this. Marco's like, oh, die. Come on. We can totally afford it. We work so hard. We can do it. So together we kind of find that middle ground. When I had the boys and I had to go back to work, Marco literally grabbed all of his supplies, shipped them to where we were going to go film. And he was there, full-time dad, full-time artist, full-time partner. So he's always been able to do that for me. And I never thought that I couldn't do something, you know. And I remember, you know, 10 years into our marriage, the dynamic was always that.

51:22And just last year, I had this commitment to shoot the third season of Linus. And he's been putting his independent film together. he sets dates he comes over and checks with me when are you shooting i'm like so far we're shooting in the summer he goes okay then i'll shoot in the summer in the fall so that we will be together at least i'll be with you and then you'll be with me and my show pushed as as they all do as they all do and we've finally had that conversation of like you can't keep putting your life on hold keep going because I can't put mine so why don't you go shoot and I'll and I'll it'll be our first time and probably our only time away from each other longer than two weeks and we did it and it wasn't easy but he finally had that conversation with me where it's like Zoe there's going to come a point where I'm going to plan something um and I'm going to give you enough time and give you a year and to tell you that I'm going to plan something.

52:21But it's with the notion that you pay it back, that you reciprocate all those years that you don't commit. Because if at the very last minute something comes up, something's always going to come up at the very last minute, but I'm counting on you like you always counting on me. But I have to be a gentleman. I'm not going to be expecting that of you. Like, I want you to want to do it for me. and that was like such a beautiful thing he's just such a mature communicator yes but then I obviously I did remind him oh I'm like here's the Latina I have done it with my finger to you I have done it and and then you always are the one to tell me but this is an amazing opportunity let's go for it so you know so then you have to refrain from doing that if you're locked in and you're going to shoot in August and I haven't done anything.

53:13And this one amazing role comes in July, no matter how tempting it is. And I say, no, don't push me to do it. You know, so we, we, we have to be there for each other. But I love the fact that those are the problems that we have, that, that we are always there for each other. It's just that the timing can be tricky. And I guess the lesson there is constant communication and respect and giving each other's space, knowing when there's a big moment on the line, right? Absolutely. Before this interview, I searched when your next project is coming out. And one of the search engines said that the next film is only in 2031 and it's the fifth Avatar movie.

53:55And I was like, wow, I know there's many far in between. But what is it like, I mean, and in your industry, knowing that you have... Study work? Yes. Thank you for saying it for me. But also you will be in your 50s, having, continuing, you know, this incredible journey, you know, beginning with James Cameron and finishing it off in your 50s. What does that mean to you? I mean, it's a dream. It's a dream. Sometimes, usually what happens is that for three months you're a part of something really special that's very impactful. Then you wrap the film. The film comes out. the whole world sees it they like it award season is over and then that's it you never revisit that experience again only in your dreams you know in your memories um avatar is a place that we keep coming back to over and over again because of its success it's it's an absolute honor to be able to do that um it also is unfortunate that my body will not be able to give me that ability to to jump off those trees like I usually do.

55:04I'm sure you'll still try. I'll try. I'll still try. And, um, and it's, you know, and also the first thing I said, as you were talking for an actor to have stability, to have stable work is comforting. And that's how it makes you feel. Yeah. It's a very, it's a very volatile business today. We're all going in this way and you may have done five, you may have wrapped five films this year and they're all coming out next year. And then what? And then what? And then all of a sudden you can spend all these years without, you know, getting steady work. So I know how unpredictable the life of an artist, of an actor can be, a producer, a director, a writer.

55:46So grateful are we when we have that kind of stable franchise that is successful, that is also made tastefully. And it's not made just for the sake of rolling in numbers, you know, you feel good. Yeah. Okay, we're at the very end. Okay. I have just a few pretty tough questions. Because we have to end it that way. What is something that you have had to unlearn? Expecting the worst out of people. What's a routine that's helped shape your success? Waking up at 5 o 'clock in the morning. Every day? I like it. With an alarm? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Because now that I'm on HRT, I'm sleeping better now. Oh. That'll be another conversation I would love to have with more women as well.

56:40I like waking up early because I get to exercise. I get to do my routine. I get to write. Before the boys are awake. But they're early risers. They wake up at 6.30, 6.15, 6.30. Okay, mine as well. Now that's late. Yeah. When they were little, they would wake up at 4.45 in the morning. You're like, why? And as a result, Marco has also become an early riser. He was a very nocturnal person when I met him because he would make art at night and sleep, you know, until like maybe 11 or something. That's a very Italian lifestyle. Very Italian. And I can't, I don't like staying up at night. I feel like I did something wrong, like something wrong is going to happen.

57:20I get anxious. I don't know. What is a common misconception about you? huh that i am that i'm uptight you know that i'm really yeah like the people people in the past i need to speak to them i know like oh you you're funny that's the thing i get i get like you're so funny i think it's because i've done so many serious films i mean it's back to the reason why i started this this monologue because it's as if you can only be respected and known for one thing. Absolutely. Why can't you pump your fists, celebrate your victories, but also have a sense of humor? And be goofy and be, you know, like, be a kid at heart.

58:04Absolutely. I'm really goofy. I'm the middle child. I'm the one that always got in trouble. So, but I think it's because of all the roles that I played. And also with you, you, there was this image that you were pretty tough, you know, and, and stoic and, but it turns out you're mushy. A little mushy. A lot mushy.

58:26What is your relationship to perfection? Huh. I am a perfectionist. I'm very hard on myself. And it's evolved in a sense that I am no longer hard on others around me. You know, I was very, very much like, well, if I am able to do it, then you can do it. And I, becoming a mother, becoming, having a family and seeing just how, seeing everybody's efforts and getting to learn and respect everybody's pace has gotten me to sort of, you know, turn inward and recognize my pace and respect myself, but also be easy on myself. Because I can be really hard on myself. What makes you feel tough?

59:17when I can do something that men usually can do so you know when it came to stunts uh being able to do my own a lot of my stunts not all but a lot of my stunts made me feel tough you know being out in the wilderness and knowing that I can get by and I can climb a tree and I can build things with my own hands makes me feel really tough. Taking care of my partner also when I like step, like having his back makes me feel tough. Like I, it's funny how you can't really step up for yourself, but you can step up for the people that you love the most in your life. So it's like, I, you know, I can pick on Marco and Marco can pick on me, but God forbid somebody comes at Marco, it's like, it's over.

1:00:07You better run. Last question. What makes you feel pretty?

1:00:13Oh, what makes me feel pretty? Um, just taking care of myself, taking care of my little girl makes me feel pretty. And you know, when I'm, when I'm kind with myself, when I'm gentle, when I've done my to-do list, you know, and I can relax that makes me feel pretty also when I'm when I am relaxed and I'm gentle with my four boys and they lower their guard around me that makes me feel pretty too you know because I can be really like what about what a video and when I relax yeah when I relax around them and I have one boy that kind of goes you look hot in that like that makes me feel really pretty, yeah.

1:01:03Zoe, thank you so much. You're so generous with your time. Thank you. I really, really, I loved us to chat. Thank you for inviting me. I'll come anytime. Thank you.

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