20,000 to 300,000 Cases: How Joey Wölffer Built a Hamptons Wine Empire

0:00Coming up in this episode of Professional Jealousy.

0:03Joey Wölffer:I got so overwhelmed by being asked for so much free product or so many discounts. If you're really like a female supporting a female, then why don't you just pay for it? Taking a moment before reacting is really important. Best career advice is like, actually, my dad was like, take a chance on yourself. Why don't you present the other side, which is the tears? You know, if you show the hardness and the tears and the fights, There's so few women that are not threatened by other women. Like they just take them on and they champion them and they create them into these like leaders themselves. And I never had that.

0:42Hi, I'm Natasha Jakubowski, Chief Innovation Officer at Anomaly, a global marketing agency. but this is my podcast, Professional Jealousy, where I'm lucky enough to talk to founders, CEOs, creatives, business leaders that I'm impressed by and want to learn from. And today, I'm talking with Joey Wolfer, chief brand officer and co-owner of the Wolfer Estate Vineyard, also became a tastemaker and entrepreneur in her own right. Joey, hello. Hi. For people who don't know the brand, can you give us the elevator pitch for the Wolf for Estate Vineyard?

1:24Joey Wölffer:Yes. So Wolf for Estate Vineyard is actually a vineyard and a tasting room in the Hamptons in Sagaponik. My father had this vision many moons ago. I believe it was in the 80s that his dream was to start a vineyard and everybody laughed at him. and he went to a dinner party. He met a guy who was growing vines in his backyard in Bridgehampton and he was like, if this idiot can do it, so can I. And it was all potato fields at the time and he wanted to find a German winemaker. That was sort of his goal. And I think he kind of got a hiring agency in Europe and Roman was the person he found who's still our winemaker.

2:10Joey Wölffer:and he told Roman that it was 20 minutes from New York City and it was a beautiful part of Long Island. Of course, if you know the traffic, it's four hours from New York City. And there was nobody here at this point, right? This is in the 90s. There was nobody here. And together they built this, you know, very small winery, very small wine business, but they both had this concept like, Rosé is huge in Europe and we should do Rosé here. I think there's something interesting about how you've, whether it was consciously, but over time, I think you really created like, not just a brand, but a brand world, you know, you've created a whole world for the estate.

2:54And obviously, it's rooted in physical place. But it also evokes all these emotions. You can imagine the people that go there, which aren't the old stuffy legacy wine thing. You can imagine kinds of, you know, parties and dinners and artists. Like, talk to me about the Wolfer world that you've been creating. I feel like what I think it's innate in how we grew up.

3:25Joey Wölffer:You know, we grew up in this like wonderful farmhouse on the property. And my parents and my mom is so inspiring to me because she grew up in England. in this very sort of stuffy family with so many rules and so many like things that they were all hiding from. And she just defied that. She went to art school. She went to Central Saint Martins. She's like, I'm getting out of here. And she got out of there. She was like, I will not raise my kids in this way at all. Right? Like, A, they will never know what they have. And of course, we like, we're so privileged to grow up in a beautiful way. But we were always raised like, you're going to work hard and you're no better than anybody else.

4:01Joey Wölffer:You are. And everybody who worked for us was our family. And that's how I treat everybody. And I think that that's something that I've carried on. I can safely say that I've really instilled that in our teams. Like just because we're popular, just because we have Ryan out the door, you treat everybody nicely. It doesn't matter who they are. Everybody is our customer. And that is a sentiment in the Hamptons that is kind of going away a little bit because of energy and because of the types of people. and when they step on that, like, I want them to feel how it felt when my parents were here and when Andy Warhol and that crowd was here, when they were all together, nobody really cared.

4:41Joey Wölffer:Like, you were at a dinner party with all these people. I mean, I remember as a kid sitting at the table with Bianca Jagger, Lee Radziwill, like, this crew, and I was just like, first of all, I grew up with, like, all these sort of older people around me, which was very cool and I think is really a good lesson for kids, but secondly, it didn't matter, right? They were all just together. Didn't matter who it was. They would walk over from the field, through the potato field, through the vines to come over. And I think that for me, as a brand, and any brand that I work with, like on an advisory level, like, it's like, who are you?

5:14Joey Wölffer:Who are you? Who is your brand? What is your story? And don't tell me somebody else's story just because you saw it on Instagram. That doesn't matter. You know, just because that's trending, that will be done. so don't follow a trend do what you feel is right yeah I do think uh the way you've approached the branding the labeling etc really did start a trend like you've uh you've got so many copycats it's like one of those categories that is just so cluttered with every every price point and how do you think about staying differentiated in such a kind of copycat, competitive, cluttered environment?

5:56Joey Wölffer:I actually have this. So I've had this conversation quite a few times because, you know, we've gone through like these amazing waves, COVID, we exploded. And then of course, we had to come back and everybody had to go through inventory. And there were so many rosé brands. And I just said to our team, like, don't try to be them. Don't even look at them.

6:16Don't

6:17Joey Wölffer:who keeps doing what we're doing, will keep being creative. We hired, like, you know, we had an amazing comms team for a while that we worked with, Malcolm Carfray. He was so good at getting the right people with our product. You know, it's a little bit of everything, everybody doing their part and not being distracted by noise. Because if you get distracted by noise, then you end up doing the little things that they're doing. And that is the biggest mistake you can make. And also, I think it's important when you're building something. Rosé, no one's ever going to stop drinking rosé. They're just not.

6:49Joey Wölffer:Like, it's not trendy anymore, but it's summer. It means summer. So you stay quiet, you stay focused, you stay growing. And the bad ones, the little crappy copycats will go away, and they have. Like, they have, you know? And I think we feel really lucky with that. We also have, like, incredible partners in Whole Foods who believe so much in us and love, you know, the family. Also, I think it's really a lot of the celebrity brands that came out. I think they thought, oh, it's a celebrity, so it'll just sell. Like the Sarah Jessica Parker, right? And the truth of the matter is, is like, I think actually like they're connected to a story more than they are just a single person.

7:30Joey Wölffer:Like also they know that Sarah Jessica Parker has nothing to do with the wine. Do you know what I mean? And we've created this, yes, the sense of place, but it's also this area, right? We like, we own the area in that way. so even if you say that you are like if you're for example if you're hamptons water like that wine is made in france you know the customer is not stupid they know that you know yeah how how have you um transformed how the uh business was run you said it wasn't working it wasn't necessarily profitable you have gone into whole foods you have like i'm just curious about your distribution and your marketing strategy as you've kind of evolved the brand and grown it?

8:14Joey Wölffer:I mean, it's not me. You know, that I will say is like, it is a perfect pie of people. It's not always easy because family business is not easy. I can promise you that. But my husband is a CEO. He comes with it. First of all, his personality is like incredible for a CEO, right? He's managing me. He's managing my brother. He's managing our relationship. He's managing Roman, who is the most passionate winemaker and still has this much passion 35 years later. But also all of us, you know, can be like, I need to do 10 wines or I need to do this event or like, you know, sometimes I do sponsorships that I regret, you know, things like that.

8:48Joey Wölffer:But he really keeps us in line and budget. And my brother has like incredible concepts and ideas and, you know, he's in Europe. So like during COVID, he and his wife were like, we're drinking too much. This was way before the non-elk race, but non-elk, but they, they started to try all these different non-elks and they found an incredible one. And he basically like found them, talked to them and said, we want to make a non-elk with you. And our non-elk is, you know, growing as quickly as our summer in a bottle. And so it's like innovation from his end. It's how do I then take that and tell the story from my end?

9:26Joey Wölffer:Max is like on all of it. And he's so involved in the wine industry. He started this like Cab Franc Forward thing for New York with another winery out here. And Roman is so involved. I think it's just like, it's like a perfect pie. Okay, it's not perfect because you know that it's not perfect. But it's a good pie of different people doing their jobs well. You know, any tips for working with your husband, working with family like that? I'm trying to get a therapist. Definitely, I did work. I actually met my husband at work. And as soon as it became serious, I was like, I have to, we have, we cannot do this.

10:01Like any tips for working with family, working with husbands. I'm always surprised how many of the founders are working to.

10:08Joey Wölffer:Oh, okay. Yeah. Coach. Business coach, number one. I think business coach, number one, I think what's been interesting for me, and this is probably getting too personal, but my life has changed so much in this time period. I've had two kids. I've gotten married. I had two kids. I've moved out here. I've made my own life. I've gotten so passionate about different things in the area. And now it's just like changes in yourself and changes on who you are. I mean, like who I was at 27 versus who I am at 44 is very different, you know? So I think that kind of thing is hard. But I also think like, we grow into each other, we learn each other's weaknesses.

10:50Joey Wölffer:I think I can be pretty honest, like I'm feeling this, I'm trying not to, I think taking a moment before reacting is really important. I used to just react and like, and it was fire, you know? So I recently like did a lot of work on having a hard conversation with my brother. And it was like he was surprised. I was surprised. It was just so good, you know, and then you're sort of like, okay, I can do this. So I don't know. I feel, I feel like it's so much work, but I do feel lucky that I'm not answering to a board. I feel lucky that I'm, that I have so much respect from my partners, you know, and I don't know.

11:28Joey Wölffer:It ebbs and flows. There've been bad years and good years. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. I was quite interested. Over time, you know, you've kind of grown into the role. The brand keeps building and getting stronger. And alongside that, you've kind of alluded to, you know, you're getting entrenched in the area. You're doing your own kind of fashion and lifestyle stuff. um is that part of your growth like how you know you started doing I think you've got well I don't have a store anymore no I actually don't have a store anymore I closed the store like officially and the brand officially in September it was it was a really hard decision but I was really ahead of the trend in this sort of boutique trunk show thing and it was so successful.

12:22Joey Wölffer:And then it, you know, as more, more stores did it as like the area got more expensive. And as I grew up sort of, I just was like, I don't want to sell. I really love selling like just any, really anything I can sell, but I prefer selling, like putting people together. And I prefer like selling an idea or selling in a big way. Like, you know, we went to California last summer and got us into all the pavilion grocery stores. And I was like, that was felt so good. And it was so, and it was so, and it was a motive. Like we were able to like kind of get into the buyer. You're not an easy character and you look really like connected.

13:00Joey Wölffer:And I, that felt really good. But when I was selling dresses to women who were sort of being mean to me and I was just like, I don't like want to, I don't, and the way, like if you go to Europe, people are so proud of their stores. And I think people here like look at retail in such a different way. And I just started to feel kind of icky about it. And there's too much consumption in clothing. And so I got like a little bit off that. But I do, I love fashion. I love supporting small businesses, small business owners. But you know, my passion now is really into like the organizations that I'm invested in, like my time.

13:36Joey Wölffer:And that is again, like if you're going to have a sense of place, like in this community, if that's something that's important to you, then you have to be involved in the community. You can't just, all these brands come in, open a shop, they don't do anything for the community. And then what do you think, you know? Yeah. I think that's part of the kind of authenticity and kind of really living the brand, I guess. Have you been, I feel like, is it fair to say you're a lifestyle influencer? No, I am not a lifestyle influencer. I feel like I'm comfortable with because you, you know, I guess it's part of being a founder these days as well.

14:19Joey Wölffer:No, I know. And I also have like a bad feeling about it too. But then I actually had this thought. I do a lot of like internal thinking. And I was thinking about social media and about like, you know, we had this really big tragedy in our community. It happened Wednesday, but yesterday we're all grieving. And, and I, there was a GoFundMe and I like used my social media and I put it on there and they've raised, and it's not just me, it's everybody, right? And we've raised so much money for the family. It does not change the fact that this family has lost their child, but I was like, that's the power.

14:53Joey Wölffer:And so I use it now more, first of all, I'm like a sponsored rider in my, in my equestrian world. So I like to promote that, you know, those, those brands because I believe in the product. I love the product. Again, they're female founders. I'll use it for messaging, like important messaging. Recently, I just had a complete, like, I got so overwhelmed by being asked for so much free product or so many discounts in the summer. And I just said, if you're really like a female supporting a female, then why don't you just pay for it? You know, why are you asking me for a free product? It's, wine is like, and I do offer, like, I will offer, you know, discount, whatever for that, you know, but it's a$20 bottle of wine.

15:36Joey Wölffer:Just buy the fucking wine, you know, or, you know, 25 if you want to like really go. So I use it more and I hate to say, like more to kind of share things that are important to me, share moments in my life, be vulnerable because it does, like people tell me that that feels really good for them and they feel like they're heard. Yeah. So lifestyle, like a little bit, but more sort of a personality, let's say. okay all right fair enough um yeah what is so i i am curious like you've uh it's now been a while as you say you've married you've got a couple of kids you started getting more involved like what how how would you advise people go as a founder um you know anything that that you think is good for people to kind of think about because sometimes it can be so overwhelming and you focus on the day-to-day versus thinking about, you know, living and this is usually, hopefully, going to take a while to build and something that you can evolve over time.

16:40Joey Wölffer:Like any thoughts on, I think the quick sale is over. And so I think people have to move on from like, I want an idea that flips quickly. I think that's not a thing anymore. And I'm happy for that because I think we went through like a total oversaturation of just people throwing products against the wall, VCs just throwing money and it was irresponsible. And, and I mean, we have to respect our planet. I think you have to think of something when you start something, it has to be something that you're, that you truly believe in. And you can't, I think thinking about a sale is like, is like the worst idea.

17:16Joey Wölffer:You have to think about what you're building. You have to think about who the customer is. You have to think about why you're doing it and how much time you're willing to do it because there, there isn't a moment of peace, like, you know, in when you have your own business. And, you know, I also like was very lucky to take something that had the foundation and grow it with, you know, with a really good team. But a lot of people are sort of on their own and, um, and so much looks sexy and so much looks like, you know, there's, there's this desire to just be a founder, get in, get a podcast, get a post.

17:46And then you're sort of like,

17:48Joey Wölffer:but there's so much work that goes into it and it has to be authentic what you're doing. Like people see through it now, which is great. I love that part. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's funny. It's, it's interesting how being a founder has become sexy. It's kind of an interesting cultural, uh, uh, kind of trend. Um, whereas the reality generally when I speak to people is it's so fucking hard, like, and it's constant. Well, and it's emotional, right? Because like, you're like, I, it's, you know, we've had a couple of years that have been like, sort of like, oh my God, like we're doing so well. Now we have tariffs.

18:27Joey Wölffer:Now we have this, now we have that. Costs are up. There's no affordable living. Like there's so many things being thrown at us at once and so many unexpected. I mean, we had unexpected tariffs that we had to account for last year, you know? And then now it's like, do we get them back? I don't think so. But like, who knows, you know? And you just have to write that. And they're big numbers. You just have to write it off, you know and I think that the climate that we're in is so uncertain so it's even more scary and it's even more important than you have a clear vision because there's so many versions of and like again the customer's not stupid and they're watching their money yeah um just out of interest I'm a strategist do you have you about clear vision do you have like a line or a kind of positioning thought or a vision that you work to that you kind of communicate to internal team I think it's like, it's always about authenticity.

19:21Joey Wölffer:Like do not get distracted in what is happening. Stay authentic. It's about sense of place. It's about who we are. We are like, we are the, if you're talking about the actual like wine stand, for example, like we are a family friendly, like place where everybody should feel comfortable, whether you're old, whether you're young, whatever your background is. And, you know, we'll have this sort of like a local, local family and we'll have like, you know, a massive CEO and everybody's together. And that's the feeling that I, I always want to have. Um, and I think that is a really hard thing. Like, you know, we've been tempted by, I'm not going to say the name, but we had somebody come to us recently and they were like, well, we're huge.

20:02And we're, we're like, like, we're bigger than you.

20:05Joey Wölffer:Like, this is my brand and I have to protect it. And I don't get a good sense of what you would do to my brand. Like, would you bring people? Maybe. Would you, would you hurt, could you hurt my brand? Yes. Is it worth it for what comes of that? Probably not. And that's a gut thing that people often will be like, oh, I want the quick hit. But you have to think long term. You can't think tomorrow, right? Because again, people move on quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Everything's so dynamic, so crazy, so uncertain. And there are so many trends and things changing. Before we go into a quick fire. I can't believe we're already at that point.

20:42What are your kind of goals and ambitions for the future? Like what is, how do you think about the evolution of the business and what's a success look like?

20:52Joey Wölffer:Yeah, I think, I mean, I think we will always innovate. I'd like to stay sort of more focused in our innovation. Like, because I think when you're family owned and you don't have a board, you often will be like, let's do this and let's do that. And sometimes you get distracted when you don't do a proper plan and proper marketing plan for that or a proper launch for that. So I think a little bit more focused, but also like then you're not, you don't want to get rid of the naivete of having great ideas and trying to make them happen. I think it's like developing like this lifestyle legacy brand that keeps going.

21:25Joey Wölffer:I mean, I think if you look at Hermes, like in the way they've kept that brand and family and legacy and, you know, they really aren't distracted by anything. They're very focused on who they are. And I think that's really inspiring. And I want, I would love that for ours. You know, I'd love our, our Wolford just be a pillar of the community. Also, we provide so many jobs, you know, so it's, it's important. So it's just kind of like having a brand that lasts through the times. Amazing. Yeah. doesn't feel like he's come to say hi like say hi hi um yeah building on the legacy i'm gonna move into our kind of more quick fire okay what what is a good brand to you and what are some of your favorite brands you mentioned hermes i mean hermes is my favorite because they're not afraid to be quirky and funny and silly i love their social media um i love that they are exactly who they are and they're unapologetic about it and i think that's extremely important in a brand um i have a friend who has and i'm not even just touting my friends because i love them but their brands are really good i have a friend who has a non-elf brand called aplos which is incredible what they've been able to do in such a short time really really incredible yesterday you did oh she's the best yes so she's like one of my best friends and then my other friend laney started this brand say which is a makeup brand which is killing it and she again it's the same thing so focused, so on brand.

22:53Joey Wölffer:And then as their friends, and then I, my other best friend started Maven, who is like the first female online healthcare clinic. And she is now into getting into products and, and she's just, we've been friends since we were 14 and I think she's brilliant in what she's been able to do on her own in a short time. So those are, those are brands that are friends, but also I really admire them. Yeah. What do you think your superpowers are that have helped you be successful? I think my ability to connect is my biggest power. I can connect with anybody, which I think is really important. I think sometimes my passion can hurt me, but it's also like helps me.