Beyond Doom-Scrolling: How The States Project Built a Movement Around Grassroots Social Networks

0:00Natasha Jakubowski:Coming up in this episode of Professional Jealousy. State legislative races get less than one penny on the dollar spent in politics. That's ridiculous. In 2024, the States Project was involved in 59 races that were decided by fewer than a thousand votes. There is so much isolation in the world right now, but this is a place where you can have an impact and you can do it side by side with other people. In states, you're not an observer to the destruction of the democracy. You don't feel helpless because you're not powerless.

0:38Natasha Jakubowski:So without further ado, hi, Daniel and Melissa. It's so good to have you both on here. For people who don't know the States Project, can you give us the elevator pitch? Sure. Maybe I'll go first. It's great to be here and thank you for having us. Maybe I'll go first and then let Melissa go, which will sort of track a little bit what we've done here. So I'm a former New York State senator, which is when you start losing your listeners. And I saw while spending nearly a decade in the legislature that when it came to states, the right-wing movement was outperforming politically. They were winning more elections than even they did nationally.

1:22They had a much better ideas ecosystem. They had both politically potent and also goal aligned solutions that their state lawmakers were carrying. And that on my side, I'm a lifelong Democrat. It seemed very few people much cared, and there wasn't much happening about it. So it was extremely frustrating because, you know, I saw that if even 100 people got in a room and decided to change how their state was working, they could. I would berate any time I could get even 20 people in a room, people that message. No one ever took me up on it until I met Melissa and some of her friends in a party that she'll describe.

2:03And it was so inspiring to me that they did take me up on it. That I, along with Adam Pritzker, my co-founder of the States Project, started this organization in October 2017 to try to make sure that the power of states was something people understood better than they had before on every issue people care about, and that we would be more effective for folks who, you know, really believe in representative democracy and effective government and personal freedom and fair markets to have power in states by doing better politically and having better ideas.

2:36Natasha Jakubowski:Yeah, amazing. I mean, it's just so striking that while everyone has been focused on like the big elections, that the state races can impact people more and cost so much less. Melissa, what was it that kind of sparked your interest and got you to kind of help make this happen? Yeah, well, I was writing young adult novels and middle grade novels and editing teen magazines when I first met Daniel. And as he mentioned, I met him actually at a publishing holiday party in December of 2016. So a potent moment for politics in this country, certainly, and one in which I was looking around for like places where I could really have an impact.

3:22And so exactly what you just said, the idea that it's often cheaper to change the balance of power in an entire state chamber than it is to win a single competitive congressional seat really galvanized me because I didn't feel like I was someone who could organize a room and host a U.S. senator. But I did feel like I was someone who could get my friends and my network together and potentially pool enough resources to help shift power in a state. And after listening to Daniel, I really understood that all the domestic issues that I was thinking about in that moment, education funding, environmental policy, health care, civil rights, abortion, even back then, voting rights, gerrymandering, I started to realize that they were all really in the hands of state lawmakers in state capitals, and that I hadn't had eyes on that area at all.

4:11But it turned out that these were a place where I could make a really big impact, and they would be foundational shift for the democracy. So I decided to focus there and eventually helped launch a Giving Circles program at the States Project. And that was a way to help other people bring their networks to this fight as well.

4:33Natasha Jakubowski:Amazing. All right. So why don't we break that down a little bit? Daniel, why don't you talk about what exactly the state's project does? So you pick a state and a candidate and fund it. And then I'm going to ask Melissa to talk about the Giving Circles idea, because it's a super interesting kind of power of community creating movement. Sure. So, you know, there's really just four steps. The first step is to look at all 99 state legislative chambers around the country and try to figure out where power is on the line. because while an inspiring candidate that's exciting on social media can make you feel good for a moment, I found in my time in office, if you're in the minority in the legislature, in any legislature, you're just an observer with an all-access past.

5:25So where can you actually shift power? Look at all the 99 chambers. The second thing is within those states where power is actually on the line, who's really going to be deciding what bills get voted on, whether they're doing harm or good. Who are those candidates and districts? Second step. The third step is provide them with whatever they need to run their best possible campaign. More dollars, the tools and tips that maybe national campaigns get, but grassroots state legislative affairs rarely do. Get them out there on the doors and not just on the phones with special interests and donors. And then fourth, once they're elected, make sure that they have the ideas and the support to govern well, to represent their constituents in the way they promised during the campaign.

6:14So they're doing better communications and constituent services, you know, free turkey giveaways when Thanksgiving approaches, having a real relationship with their constituents, and also having the kinds of ideas that will make a difference. You know, if you think of the 10 domestic policy ideas people most care about. States have done more harm or good on those in the last 15 years than the federal government has. But these are part-time jobs, often with no staffers. And so we're just there to take folks who believe in the American promise and give them the tools to be effective at it. That's the work.

6:48Natasha Jakubowski:Yeah, amazing. Amazing. Melissa, talk So obviously the aim is to help elect people who are going to be pro-democracy. Probably worth pointing out that generally Democrats. And I know that you've had quite a lot of success. any particular recent races that you feel good about sharing in terms of this can actually work? Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the things that's most important for the folks in our Giving Circles program to see is impact. And we have been involved in many, many races across the years that have been decided by a handful of votes. In fact, in 2024, the States Project was involved in 59 races that were decided by fewer than a thousand votes.

7:46And in that year, which was actually a pretty tough year nationally, obviously, we were able to break a right-wing supermajority in North Carolina by a single statehouse seat that we won by 228 votes. We were able to hold a one-seat majority in Pennsylvania that we had won in 2022 by 63 votes. That was an incredible year and a wild victory because we were able to flip actually 12 seats in Pennsylvania that year. And that last one that was won by 63 votes shifted power entirely in Harrisburg. Let them elect the first Black woman Speaker of the House, Joanna McClinton, who's a wonderful partner of the States Project.

8:29And watching those states where there were power shifts has been really wonderful for giving circles who chose those states. So every giving circle can choose what state they'd like to target. After Pennsylvania 2022, I got to call every single Pennsylvania giving circle and say, that was you. Because if every piece of that basket weave hadn't been there, I don't know if we would have won Pennsylvania by 63 votes. And so I think people just seeing like this isn't you dropping something in a giant bucket. This is actually something that is going to make a difference because we are winning or losing on the margins.

9:06And when you shift power in a state, policies change, lives improve. There are absolute results.

9:14Natasha Jakubowski:Yeah, amazing. How many giving circles do you have? And like what sort of amounts are people raising? Like, I know that, yeah, it's just an amazing idea. So I just checked. We have 201 actively working for this year, so for 2026. And hopefully that number will grow some over the years. We have had really a huge range of folks who start and grow giving circles. We see folks who raise, you know, we have some big giving circles that are raising a few hundred thousand dollars, which is incredible. But we have a lot of folks who are raising$10 ,000,$20 ,000 with their networks. And we actually have a program that's kind of an on-ramp right now, which is called 1K at a Time.

10:04And we are watching actually as younger folks start to get involved and figure out that this is a way that they can have an impact and move resources. And we've seen a couple of those new 1K at a time giving circles starting up as well. I think one of the things about giving circles that feels really good to people is that when you can learn how to move resources and actually raise dollars, it helps you walk with more power in your regular life. And it helps de-emotionalize the idea of fundraising. And it can be a math problem. You know, when people say, oh, I couldn't raise$1 ,000. We say$1 ,000 is asking 25 people for 40 bucks each.

10:46Can you do that? And they say, oh yeah, sure, I could do that. And so helping people figure out what those steps are is really, really powerful. And I think a wonderful place for people to start. But we've got everything from$1 ,000 goals to$500 ,000 goals in the Giving Circles program. And the average raise is around$25 ,000.

11:06Natasha Jakubowski:Okay. Yeah, it's just so interesting. interesting to see, you know, one of the big outcomes is getting people to think about power, think about local, you know, what you can do actually to impact where you live, your local community. You know, if it wasn't quite so extreme in culture and what's happening in politics, you know, one outcome of all that craziness is the fact that it's probably a good thing for people to get involved and more, you know, more in the know when it comes to what's happening locally and politically. Do you find that the main driver is like, oh my God, what, just a feeling of powerlessness?

11:58Natasha Jakubowski:Or how do you find people and what is the kind of main hook that you think kind of draws people in? So I do think that people, everyone is looking for a way to get involved and have an impact right now. I think there's a lot of existential dread and fear and worry about what's happening in the country. And people are looking for a way in. Politics can feel like a black hole. It can feel like everything's happening in a dark room and you can't really see the furniture, but it is a place where you can have an impact. And I think our program tries to shine a light on that, not just because the dollars are so much lower, but also because part of our work is to help people develop a political fluency to start to understand how power really works and why there are these 50 mini Congresses across the country that have actually been shaping policy and outcomes on the kitchen table issues, yes, but also over federal power as well as we watch, you know, State legislatures draw the district lines that decide who goes to Congress.

13:06Often when the Supreme Court rules on something, what they are doing is throwing power back to states. So, you know, it was a Mississippi law that took down Roe. And if that one hadn't done it, there were a bunch of other states that had queued up abortion bans with the explicit purpose to challenge Roe. So those laws are coming from states. And when there's a ruling, it's throwing power back to states. So even outcomes of the Supreme Court giving circle leaders say, I'm working on that. I am working in the place where the power lives there. And even on the presidency, you know, states control the vote.

13:39They control who can vote and when and how. And, you know, if the federal government controlled elections, we would already be in pretty deep trouble. But they don't because the founders feared a king and there's a decentralized system here. And I think when people hear those types of stories, they can see that not only is this a place where they can have an impact, but it's also a place of incredible power. And the combination of those two things is pretty irresistible for someone who's really thinking hard about how and where to get involved and spend their time and resources.

14:14Natasha Jakubowski:All right, Daniel, what's the political professional view? Well, I think you might be surprised to hear this from a political professional, but you know, you get how many texts, if you're being glancingly interested in politics, from politicians saying, you need to help us, right? You know, among your listeners, you know, how many of them tried to do something in the last presidential race? If people are being honest with themselves, whether they respond to that text or not, or even what they did or didn't do in the presidential race, did any of them really think that they were going to personally have a meaningful impact on the outcome?

14:50Which doesn't mean it's not worth doing. We know that everyone needs to make the choice to act, to vote, to participate. Among other things, it sends a really strong message. But in states, you're not an observer to the destruction of the democracy. You don't feel helpless because you're not powerless. Literally a single individual's networks, expertise, resources at any level will have a vastly outsized impact. So it's a little bit of saying, you know, it rings empty when people say, oh, you don't know your power because people don't know their power. But the presidency is the single worst example of that.

15:36Where people really don't know their power in our federal system is to change the entire system by focusing where any dollar or minute they have to commit to the cause will have the biggest impact. And that states not just for some state campaign, but for every issue Melissa's already spoken about.

15:57Natasha Jakubowski:Yeah, I definitely I think just before we got on on the recording, I definitely got a text message from Nancy Pelosi telling me, you know, how much she really needed me. And it does feel very. Well, did you respond or decide that we should lose Congress? no i i i definitely i did i mean the yeah the problem is that you i deleted and said please don't spam me because it happens so often and it does feel so removed and like it's not real whereas um having taken part uh uh started to take part in one of the giddling circles i think one of the mechanics is not just that you can see uh see impact but you also get to really think about the process you know you you work as a group um and you think about it and you debate and then you make a decision I think that's one of the powers of um of the kind of mechanic that you've been using um it truly is like a way of creating that kind of grassroots interaction and motivation was that part of how you're thinking about it or that's been kind of something that you've seen kind of grow?

17:15Natasha Jakubowski:Like how much of it was planned versus has just kind of evolved as you've been building? You know, for me, and I'm sure Melissa will have a different and also true answer, but for me, this is the best way to understand power. So democracies are sort of strange things because people with less power come together and choose who has more. Sort of the only structure that's set up that way. You know, an elected official is hired by a bunch of people less power than they have or fired by them. And understanding that it can be dry. It can be a civics lesson. It can be the old how a bill becomes a law.

17:55The practice of participating in states really lets you behind the curtain on power, even if you're not someone who wants to get injured at all, or you're not sure what side you're on on a certain issue, or even in political movements, obviously, in this polarized moment. Many more people have much more clarity. But everything that you see in terms of how parties work, in terms of what it takes to get something done, in terms of the difference between what you and all of your friends think and what your fellow citizens think, these are wonderful, magical parts of democracy that fractured media ecosystem, a nationalized, too big to impact kind of conversation.

18:44Hide. Once you're in this, you become an expert. My favorite stories, actually, are when someone says, you know, I always thought I didn't know that much about politics. I got involved in the Giving Circle and I was at dinner. I was at dinner with some friends, you know, to barbecue on a Saturday night and someone said something about the news and I knew what was really going on. And like, you know, that that itself is a form of power that from the beginning was really important to me. The worst thing for me is when I'm at a family event and I get asked a question about some national headline that has nothing to do with the actual mechanics of how people are making decisions and what's going to impact our lives.

19:28Yeah. Yeah. And I think your question made me think a lot of a lot of different things. I know that you joined a giving circle that recently just did their state selection, which is something that giving circles do do. And it's based on the fact that my giving circle did one 10 years ago when we first started. We're on year 10, which I can't believe. But we wanted to vote on the state that we wanted to impact from the states project's kind of strategic list of states. And letting everyone who had given to the circle have a vote, no matter what they had given. So some people, a meaningful donation was$25 and some people, a meaningful donation was$2 ,500 and everything in between.

20:09But I knew that as we went into that first vote, I was handing a tiny scrap of paper and a golf pencil to people who'd given very different amounts. But we were all heading into whatever state we chose with our total. And the total felt really powerful. And I do think that to your point about, you know, this building community and really engaging with the learning about these states is the glue and a really important piece of this because there is so much isolation in the world right now and there is so much, you know, just people feeling alone. But this is a place where you can have an impact and you can do it side by side with other people.

20:52I think that's very, very powerful. And the last thing that I'll say, the talk about the texts made me think of this. We do have a giving circle right now named Coast to Coast who did a challenge a few weeks ago where they asked their members every time they received a text to make a hash mark and add them up and give$5 for each one that they get over the course of a week to the giving circle. And that was just a really fun way to have people kind of make light of this kind of annoying thing that happens to all of us and a really powerful way to bring the community together to laugh and joke about it.

21:29And I do think, obviously, you know, the giving circles, raising our electoral dollars has huge, huge impact. But the other impact is that there are now 200 groups across the country that are being led by people who have truly like turned on the porch light for strategic political giving in their communities and have become leaders and experts because of their engagement here. And that's growing. And I think that's really good for the democracy, too. Yeah.

21:57Natasha Jakubowski:I'm curious what you, you know, you've created a political organization that has inverted the usual way of doing things from top down to bottom up. And I'm curious, you know, what sort of branding advice or organization advice would you have for someone like the bigger kind of national Democrats to start thinking about? What are the learnings for, you know, how to how to build something that feels more interactive and more meaningful? I talk about this in in my book, The Fourth Branch. political parties by definition are focused in the capital they are focused uh where the most powerful elected officials advocates lobbyists consultants and donors are focused and in our country that is geographically bounded by the beltway and um the idea that some local state senator or a children's book author or a leading marketing and branding expert are going to show up in the Capitol and change the shape of that lake is not realistic.

23:17Again, it doesn't mean that you should exit because the civic muscle is important, but you also should be honest with yourself about that? So I'd say the first piece is we went to a place where none of those folks much cared. That made it a lot easier. The second, and I know this is a cliche, but it has the added, our argument, our kind of counterintuitive case has the added benefit of being true. So when people take the case and try to remember the word salad that I sometimes get caught in or the inspiration that Melissa has shared with them and start searching themselves, they find it's truer even than we were able to communicate in person.

24:03That really creates a positive cycle of them wanting to hear more from us, us being able to deliver more. And then the third, and we haven't always been good at this, and with my co-founder, Adam, and with the team we've had throughout, current executive director of the stage project, Mandara Myers. It is just an obsessive focus on the fact that you're going to have to go back to these people who are, after all, contributing without getting anything in return except their sense of impact and never lying to them about the impact. If you know that you're going to have to go back to people who are committing themselves in this way with actual answers for what happened with the time and money they gave you, it is a really clear focuser on just learning and getting better.

24:56We've met, you know, I certainly have made an infinite number of mistakes along the way. And at any moment, there's something that I and our team would love to make better. But we know that we need to be on that path because we're asking for a sacred commitment from folks, much like the one as a local politician I asked for when I knocked on their doors and asking to vote for a 28-year-old in a Democratic primary for an office they were only vaguely aware even existed. And I will say that within the Giving Circles program, I think one of the most powerful things about branding is that everyone gets their own page and names their own circle and picks their own image and writes their own bio for the circle.

25:41And so it really does become an individually branded piece for people to take out into their networks. And some people name themselves after, you know, where they are. Boston protects democracy. And some people name things, you know, just based on state puns. You know, we have our states, our power and altered states, things like that. So they get very creative with it. And that really creates a sense of ownership over their particular circle, which I think is very, very powerful. And then we have things that we kind of say within the program and that become catchphrases for the giving circles.

26:24One rather clunky one that Daniel likes to make fun of is friends don't let friends give non-strategic political donations. It's a little clunky, but it does land because people do understand that as, you know, when you're reaching out to people, what you're doing is you're giving them a real opportunity to have impact with their dollars. And then another one that I love is we work where the glamour is. We work not where the glamour is, just where the power is, which is, again, a little clunky. But we used to have a sign on our door that said, not where the glamour is, just where the power is.

26:59And those types of things, I think, really kind of echo in people's minds and become a piece of identity for their giving circles that helps them kind of stay with us and continue to do this work.

27:12Natasha Jakubowski:yeah no it's it's interesting i mean i i i definitely think it actually probably changes how people give money um you know versus the kind of the nancy text messages and the kind of very generic act blue um yeah it does and for me personally it it definitely made that sort of thing feel a little like you know not frivolous but pointless when you have more power to impact something and feel like you're you know where the action is going um do you think that's tension that you think about you know how do you make sure it's emotional you know giving really is emotional and there's a lot of non-strategic emotional political giving you get angry at someone, you get upset about something, you give to the opponent or a commercial, you know, a candidate's ad makes you cry, you're going to give.