Ep.06 / Transforming the way we approach death with Adelle Archer, Co-Founder, and CEO @Eterneva

0:05Hi, today I'm chatting with Adele Archer, co-founder and co-CEO of Eternava, such an interesting business that celebrates the lives of people and pets that have passed by making them to make it's a new company. And she's also been recognized as one of Forbes 30 Under 30, appeared on the cover of Inc. And amazingly has been on Shark Tank. Hello, Adele. Hi, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I'd love to start by just you telling us about the kind of origin story of Eterniva. As an innovation strategist that creates businesses and brands, you know, it's such a great example of having a real consumer need, pain points to solve, and something that comes from true experience.

1:03So I'd love you to talk a little bit about Eterniva. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, it was really interesting. My co-founder and I, we both came from tech backgrounds. We'd worked at different tech companies here in Austin, Texas. And when we met, I think we both had kind of that shared understanding of like, you're not going to do this forever, you know, and you're different. And what's the company we're going to start together. And so we had been kind of incubating all these different ideas and tossing them around. And then it was a friend of mine who actually his dad was involved with this lab grown diamond startup.

1:42And at the time, that was like a completely new technology and so cool, the fact that you could grow a diamond in the lab. So we were looking at, okay, you know, would it make sense for us to build a brand to bring this to consumers? So we started doing kind of the diligence on that. Is this a good business model? And it was definitely a business exercise. And then, you know, it was just kind of wild as we were doing that on a personal side of my life. I had my really close friend and my business mentor, her name is Tracy um she was really really special she's a really big part of my 20s um she got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer um and Tracy really like she had lost her parents quite young um had yet to get married she was only 40 um so didn't have kids was yet to get married and she uh was diagnosed and you know really didn't have a lot of people to kind of support and take care of her she was passing away so it ended up being myself her best friend and her aunt and you know I think it was my first experience losing somebody too soon and really seeing what they think about and what they go through and for someone so special it was like I just want to hang the moon for them you know and uh so she knew she wanted to be cremated but she didn't know what to do with her ashes and so that was what I was tasked with is doing all the research what can you do with ashes what are your options um and that was really my first foray into end of life was, you know, being a consumer and looking for solutions and really not feeling very inspired by anything that I was finding.

3:16It just felt kind of trinkety and cheap, like all these little products you could put ashes into a vial or something like that. But it was like, man, this doesn't feel special enough for Tracy. So then over dinner one night with a diamond scientist, I was talking about Tracy and he was the one that was like, well, there is carbon in ashes. What if we tried to get the carbon out of Tracy's ashes, and I could grow you a diamond from her carbon. And I was just like, Oh, my gosh, that is the coolest idea I've ever heard. Like, that's what we're doing. And yeah, I mean, it was just one of those things where you just felt like this is what I meant to be building.

3:54I see such a vision for how this could be done. And, you know, it was a very fateful pivot and one that I'm super grateful for, because couldn't imagine a more meaningful company to build yeah it's amazing the role of serendipity in a you know and how things happen fateful i mean yeah yeah i just happened to have dinner with a diamond uh scientist is kind of amazing like the kind of clash of uh ideas coming out um it also It reminds me of, you know, a lot of the kind of Georgian and Victorian mourning jewelry. It's interesting how you're kind of changing how people think about death and end of life.

4:41Is that part of how you kind of think about the brand? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, you know, it's my co-founder and I are millennials. So I do think it's a millennial take on end of life. And when you go and you experience the industry, we now do work with a lot of funeral homes. You know, it's definitely an industry that has been very traditional. And I think we're at this really interesting point where the consumer is really looking for more celebration of life options. And, you know, they're kind of breaking with tradition. And you see that just in like the cremation statistics. It's wild.

5:16Like we were 10 % cremation in 1980 here in the United States. we're going to be 80 % by 2040. Um, and I think with that, people are really looking for personal, meaningful, wanting to do something that just feels special. And, you know, I think what a lot of people resonate with about, you know, doing this option, it's all for everybody, but I think, um, doing a diamond, the idea of it is like being able to have a part of your loved one with you all the time and getting to move forward and keep doing life with them versus moving on from them. and that's just a mindset that we really believe in.

5:53It's like an openness to end of life, a willingness to get to continue to talk about our loved ones and be unapologetic about that, you know, and that you get to move forward, not move on and honor them in a way that feels really rich and fulfilling and meaningful for you. Yeah, an amazing kind of shifting the grieving to celebrating is an interesting kind of strategy idea. You said it's not for everyone. Do you have a kind of consumer that you target? Like, do you have a consumer kind of that you have in mind when you create? I would say, I mean, for sure our end customer tends to be female. It is so interesting, though.

6:36It is actually quite a diverse customer base, more than I've really ever seen other places. And I think kind of the common denominator is that you don't do a diamond for just anybody in your life. I think we can all probably count on one hand who our diamond relationships are. And it's kind of a cool, I don't know, we often say that people earn their diamond by how they show up. You know, if they were somebody that was just a really important part of your life that you couldn't imagine, you know, not feeling connected to them, like being able. That's Tracy, by the way, that's her black diamond.

7:11And so just being able to have that person with you all the time and the comfort that it brings, like, you know, you're not going to do that for every person. in every pet, it's really the most special ones. And so I think that's kind of the through line is like, was this a really remarkable relationship for you? You know, and then certainly we see resonance with like, you know, even more resonance with certain communities versus others. But yeah, I think the relationship is kind of the biggest predictor. Interesting. So almost the relationship and a psychographic wanting to kind of celebrate and think about how they can honor the relationship.

7:48Interesting. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I do think it requires in some ways a bit of a, you know, an open mindset that has some kind of growth orientation, some openness. Because a lot of what we've designed around the diamond creation process is a journey and an experience that is designed to be a celebration of someone, you know, we learn a lot about our loved ones up front. And then as we go through the process, we're sharing pictures and videos and updates of the journey. So for a lot of people, they almost see it as kind of like this protracted ritual of celebrating someone's life. And I think it really does support with integrating and healing because they have something positive to focus on and something to look forward to and it really serves them.

8:36But it does, for some, it just means that you have to feel ready for that to want to participate in that you know and different people will come at different times for some it's like right after the loss I need this for others it might be 10 years later that they're like you know what I think I'm finally ready to look at that you know yeah and it's that I've read a little bit about the experience that you've been creating and it's over time it's in depth it's very hands-on very personal very luxury um how has the kind of idea evolved from kind of launch to now because it sounds like you've been updating and and kind of evolving the product experience yeah totally well what was really interesting was when we first started the whole journey what you know with the purpose of it was actually more of an exercise of transparency than anything.

9:33We just wanted people to feel comfortable and confident. They know exactly where their loved one is. They know what's going on, you know, because you can imagine like parting ways with your loved one. You know, our process is pretty intricate. It takes like seven to eight months to do. So parting ways with your loved one for that long, you just want to feel like they're in good hands and there's a trustworthy guardian caring for them. So that was what it was about and I think when we started to get feedback from just the updates we were sharing about the process it was like quite unexpected honestly you know you show somebody like oh look your mom came back from our carbon purification process like here's her carbon and people would be crying and they'd be emailing that update to friends and family and posting it on social media and we're like dang like that's adding a lot of value so let's make this more storytelling driven.

10:23Let's, you know, improve kind of the, the video quality of it so that it really is kind of a shareable asset that they get to share with others. Cause I think that was another just interesting observation was how this was something that was comfortable for friends and family to engage with in a way that, you know, bringing up your dead mom in three months, like people are like, Ooh, I don't want to touch that, you know, but saying like, how's your mom's diamond doing? Do you have any updates? Um, it really helps somebody feel more kind of rallied around. So we started up leveling all the updates.

10:56And then we actually started, we vertically integrated a lot of our process, we have a huge diamond lab and facility now that's in just outside of tech of Austin. And we open that up for our families were like, Hey, if you want to be a part of like, dropping your loved one off and meeting with us in person, or if we're growing in that facility, then they could even come and like start their loved ones diamond machine, or celebrate what we call the homecoming, which is the day the diamond comes home. We host homecomings at our facility sometimes. And so I think the in-person rituals are super special.

11:33We have a whole digital layer now as well where people can log in. They can see where they are, you know, and access all of their updates over time. Our care team is just really attentive. I think they look for any little ways that they can surprise and delight and add value to folks, you know, then often on an anniversary of passing, like the only message you might get might be from Eternava. So we just look for little ways that we can always add value and allow someone to know that we see them and we're their friend. And, you know, we're here to celebrate their loved one with them. Yeah, I love that kind of moving from transparency and just trying to build trust to something that is about empathy and support totally storytelling um kind of amazing um it reminds me a little bit about do you do how do you use technology um because i do think of you know like the black mirror san jenniferro like you see yourself using technologies and ai and augmented reality in that way there may be some things that we're cooking up right now yes um but uh i think you'll you'll see more of that next year um but yeah i mean i think a big thing that we just think about is uh what's so special about doing a diamond is that it really is a store of you know of who somebody is you know and i think as we all create are cremating more um for a lot of people cremated remains kind of feel like unfinished business you know they have an urn at home they're like what am i going to do with this urn yeah um and the next generation doesn't really want to inherit it.

13:11And so I think that's something that's really beautiful about doing the diamond is that, you know, it's something that the family would love to keep, you know, and pass down over time. And I think a question we've been really asking ourselves is how do we ensure their story goes with it? So that's a bit of what we're solving for. Yeah, I can see a really interesting use of technology to build legacy and actual storytelling into the kind of process over time. interesting. I'm a strategist. I'm just wondering, do you have like a positioning or a kind of set of documents that everyone kind of gets onboarded into?

13:47Like what is the kind of core thought that you bring people into the company with? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if any, it was kind of interesting. When Garrett and I first started Eternava, we bootstrapped it. We bootstrapped it to its first million in sales. And I remember our first, first like big expense we ever invested in was our brand book. Um, and it was a super stretchy investment. We're like, Oh my gosh, spending$10 ,000 on something. What? Um, but it was so worthwhile and so important because I think the more that you are like grounded in your identity, you know, um, yeah, you just, you stand for something so much bigger.

14:25And I think it's, it's really a rallying effect for the team and for our customers. So, um, yeah, I mean, for us, it's evolved over time. I think it's kind of expanded and grown over time, but really we view ourselves as a celebration brand, um, which isn't always the first thing that comes to mind when you think about end of life. But I think what we've really learned is that there's, uh, some really wonderful research by David Kessler, who's a grief therapist. Uh, and he talks, he was actually the one that helped develop the five stages of grief, which we all know well. But then he actually had the experience, unfortunately, of losing his little boy and going through, like, acutely going through those stages.

15:06And he realized that there's actually this optional sixth stage of grief that's on offer for everyone, but you get to choose into it, which is making meaning in the wake of loss. And I think that's something that we just feel so passionately about and something that we observed is, like, how an experience and a journey can really support someone in accessing that sixth stage. And so, you know, as a celebration brand and as, you know, a company that's honoring these remarkable people, remarkable lives, you know, how are we the vehicle that's supportive in, you know, giving somebody a, you know, a vehicle, a mechanism that they could access that sixth stage?

15:45You know, we don't say that we're doing it to, like, for them. It's just something that's on offer that I think there gets to be more innovation out there, um you know that supports people in that they give some framework and some kind of structure to accessing that yeah that's an amazing kind of north star isn't it to help people make meaning out of death absolutely super interesting how do you think about it's such a new idea um you know involves behavior change it involves education like how do you how do you market this like what I'm assuming awareness is one of your biggest hurdles like how do you how do you how do you get people to a turnover yeah I mean it is so interesting like this is very much a category creation play which is very different from a marketing standpoint marketing strategy than you know tapping into an existing set of awareness pool but yeah I mean I would say something that like we did that was really kind of unique in our space is we built one of the first modern brands in end of life and we did it through really great social media storytelling.

16:54We always say like, yes, it's cool to, you know, understand how a diamond is made, ashes to diamonds, but like the end of the day, it's really not about us. It's not about Eternava, you know, and this technology. It's about the incredible people and pets that you hear. You hear their stories of like who become diamonds. And it's like, the most inspiring thing ever, you know, I think you learn so much about life and relationship, you know, and just what it means to be a great person, you know, by hearing these stories. And so we really like made them the hero of, you know, every one of our stories.

17:30And I think it just hit on a very human level for a lot of people, they would watch our videos. And it was just like, Oh, my God, like, this really reminds me of my dad. And there was just organic virality. You know, we've got almost 300 million views across our TikTok content. None of that is like paid. It's all organic. You know, I think we started a lot of conversation that way. And now actually, as we grow, we have quite a few influencers and celebrities that inbound to us. And, you know, I think what's important for us and working together is like ensuring that there's a real authentic connection and resonance that, you know, they're getting to honor a loved one and just sharing their journey.

18:11And I think what's powerful about that is giving others permission to get to talk about their loved ones as well and normalizing that. So, you know, it's kind of thinking about you have an adoption curve, how do you move people across the adoption curve, making something feel kind of broader, normalized, starting with young people who have kind of openness, you know, but then leveraging social proof and, you know, kind of folks that we all look up to who get to do this as well. And, you know, I think over time, you see the adoption, you see yourself moving across the adoption curve, which is really cool.

18:50I mean, one, I'm assuming massive awareness driver was going on Shark Tank. I watched it, And, I mean, it looked wild. It looked wild watching you and your co-founder, you know, deliberate. But can you talk, for the people that might not have seen it, talk to me about being on Shark Tank and what was going through your head with the negotiations. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, like, you know, there's those, like, super easy, breezy Shark Tank episodes, and then there's, like, the really juicy ones, and I feel like we had a really juicy one. Um, it was, that was a pretty wild experience. I think I don't normally get too like rattled before, you know, I guess interviews or things like that.

19:39But that was one that I was just like, oh my goodness, this is intense. Um, and, but you know, I, I think when I stepped back, what, what meant a lot to me about being on Shark Tank is we were the first end of life company, um, to be on Shark Tank. And so especially at the time, this was pre-COVID. And I think I've seen a really big difference in how people respond to any topics around death or end of life on pre-COVID, post-COVID. So I think pre-COVID, getting to talk about that on a national stage and have it, you know, like kind of taken seriously, something that we hadn't been talking about as a culture.

20:18It was really cool to feel like we were a part of opening that. and it was a very spicy negotiation but really grateful that you know we ended up with three offers and we got to pick and we went with Mark Cuban and he's been just fantastic you know very supportive of us very supportive of our mission and you know just has had our back in a lot of ways along the journey so. So he's still still involved? Yeah yeah yeah he's reinvested a couple times and um yeah he's great and did you see like a bump on uh you know on the website in terms of uh traffic and yeah yeah we definitely we definitely saw a huge like flux of of awareness and traffic i think for a brand or a company like us it you know for some companies it's like this big influx of sales and then it's done for us it was like planting a seed with millions of people because also it's not just like who's watching it.

21:22It's who they end up tell because this is such a different and interesting idea. We've done some research and we know that on average when someone hears our story and what we do, they tell 20 other people about this. So it's just this kind of like wild multiplier. So you fast forward to today, that was 2019. Fast forward to today and I think it's like 10 to 15 % of our customers say they originally heard about us on Shark Tank and we're hearing like super just heartwarming stories where, you know, recently, um, we had a mom that came to us to honor her, her daughter and the two of them watched that episode together and they made a pact that, you know, Hey, this is what we want to do.

22:00You know, I want to be a, it was mostly talking in the context of the mom, you know, this is what I want to do for you, mom. I love this idea. Like, I want to be a diamond. I want to do this for you. Are you okay with that? Well, then my daughter passed. And so I think for her mom to know that that's what resonated so much for her and what she wanted um i'm like man i i wish that for more people is that they get to have that conversation um and alignment so they know what they know that they're fulfilling their loved one's wishes so it's amazing you mentioned covid it's amazing thing so how how do you feel covid changed the conversation about death like day and night actually it's it's pretty wild.

22:43I think you could just see it and how people would respond if they're like, what do you do? And I'm like, are you ready for this? And I think before COVID, it was a totally 50-50 reaction. Like, and I really do think it was just a reflection of someone's relationship with death. You know, those that had a kind of healthier relationship with it would be like, wow, that's really interesting, or that's really beautiful, or like, tell me more, you know, and those that were uncomfortable with death would be like, ew, that's weird, wearing grandma on your finger, you know, and they would kind of like, that's the only way that they would associate to it is wearing grandma on your finger, and it's like, well, what if this was your spouse, you know, what if this was your daughter, like, and, you know, I think people just couldn't, like, wouldn't go there, you know, and then COVID happened, and I think that really forced us, you know, as a culture to think about our own mortality, you know, because it was a really potentially real prospect of like, you know, could this happen to me?

23:43Could I get sick and pass? There's a stat that 25 % of Americans have a one degree connection to someone who passed away from COVID. And so yeah, I mean, I think it just like was a lot closer to home and they had to think about it, they had to face it. And it's just wild, because like, now I would say it's like a 90 10 reaction where 90 % of people are like, Oh my gosh, that's amazing. And I wouldn't say our awareness levels are like day and night dramatically that much different. You know, yes, awareness is higher, but I really think it's more of a reflection of people's perception and relationship with end of life and willingness to look at it.

24:21Yeah. An interesting kind of acceleration of cultural trends. I think they were probably getting there, but just, yeah, just such a massive impact on perceptions, thoughts, feelings. Interesting. What does success for a turnover look like? Like, what are you, what is your ambition? What are you hoping for in the next five, ten years? I don't know. Yeah. Honestly, it's just serving as many families as we possibly can. um i think what i am just so proud of we have a um a slack channel called love from customer and our team will just share anytime they get like a really incredible email and then we also have automated um you know anytime we get a review it posts in there and you just read every single day people giving us feedback like this changed my relationship to my grief you know like yeah It's because I went on this process that I feel like I finally started healing.

25:24And, you know, it's just like it's so humbling and incredible. And, you know, it's just you're like, how could I, you know, want to do anything else? And I think really, though, it's for me, like I love feeling like Eternava has the ability and the potential to be a company that really does create like a completely new offering in a space that I think hadn't seen a ton of innovation. And, you know, hadn't really been listening a whole lot to the end consumer and, you know, saying, like, what are they asking for and how do we continue to innovate and develop and, like, add more value? There wasn't a lot of, like, great brands, great experience, you know.

26:06And I just feel like this is an area of life that we so deserve that, you know. We've had all this innovation and, you know, like, our health and our wellness and, you know, all these products that are so incredible. and like, man, I feel like this is the area that we deserve it the most for all of that to exist. And so I just want Eternava to be the brand that, you know, truly becomes kind of one of the big dogs in our space, because that means that we can offer that to more people. And they're aware of that. And they just get to feel like their needs are being very met, you know, versus kind of forcing something onto them that is just how we've always done it.

26:43You know, I'm like, I just want more people to feel like yes this is exactly what I wanted and that feels like the right way to honor my loved one versus I'm just doing something out of obligation and tradition yeah amazing um it's your birthday today happy birthday thank you um what did you I'm very struck by you know you've done so much um like what what did you want to do when you were growing up what did I want this it had no foresight not at all and I mean what a great you know reminder though I think to young people it's just like you have no idea and let life take you on the journey and don't feel so much pressure to figure it all out because yeah you just never know um I think growing up I really I actually wanted to be an actress uh because on my dad's side of the family I've got a bunch of, you know, very incredible and impressive, you know, female pioneers who were big Hollywood actresses.

27:46So I thought that's what I wanted to do. And, you know, I think when I reached kind of an age of realizing that would mean I needed to live in LA, and I didn't love LA, I was like, yeah, I don't think that's it. And then my first chapter was actually in politics. So my undergrad was political science and economics. And I think it was very much a motivation of I want to do something, you know, I want to improve the world in some way, I want to give back to the world in some way. And I thought that was the vehicle that I would do it through. Worked in DC for a year was like, nope, definitely not for me.

28:24And, you know, I really think like, it's kind of interesting. I think for some people, their paths are very linear and I'm not that kind of person. I really look back and I realized it was like by saying yes to kind of unexpected things that then ended up creating this path that feels very aligned for me. So when I was in DC, a friend of mine was at a university in Guatemala and he was hosting all of these policy reformers for a weekend led by an entrepreneur to teach them to think more like entrepreneurs do. and he's like hey do you want to staff this with me and I was like yeah totally and I went down there and it turns out this entrepreneur that was facilitating it had a business school in Austin Texas and he was like come to Austin you know this is a five entrepreneurs for entrepreneurs MBA program like I think you'd love it and that just ended up being the perfect pivot that introduced the rest of it and so yeah you know it's it's kind of cool I think it's all kind of connected of dots when you look back on it but yeah I love that it's funny I always think about my husband is one of those people that had a plan you know and he had goals by setting just to you know start a company sell a company blah blah blah and I definitely am more like you just kind of have meandered my way yeah not knowing exactly what I wanted but taking chances along the way and I love that as an option for people especially people that don't necessarily know exactly what they want to do it's amazing i'm a big believer in like defining the vision but then trusting that the how will reveal itself you know so it's like i knew that the vision was i want to be doing something where i'm adding real value to people that i feel like i'm improving their life in some way and i love to bring joy to people i i really like that angle i i love taking like something hard and painful and then making it a bit less burdensome.

30:23I feel like I can hold that space without absorbing it and then want to like leave someone in a better place. And so it was like, I knew that was what the vision was. And then it's like, okay, let's let the universe tell me what exactly that vehicle looks like, you know? Yeah. What do you think your superpowers are? What are the things that have helped you, you know, get to where you are? I would say I'm really good at figuring out like how to get in touch with people so you know and and when I set my mind to it I'm like I will get a hold of this person you know it doesn't matter who it is. As in finding out their email address like what's that mean?

31:03No I mean like you know for example when we started Eternava there's really like very few diamond scientists globally that are experts in the process we use high pressure high temperature which is different than what the regular lab garden diamond industry uses because they're all trying to grow as many diamonds at once uh at a time whereas we grow one at a time um so there was like one scientist that specifically was like the guy and he was in amsterdam and had no website no email address impossible to find and get a hold of um and i had been like trying all these different avenues and I ended up finding his TA befriending the TA on LinkedIn convincing the TA to like get me a meeting I flew to Amsterdam and basically like lovingly ambushed this guy like in his classroom and I was like I know this is a crazy idea um because he was just growing diamonds at the time so to like grow pitch some diamond scientist on growing diamonds from dead people you know or like ashes was like this wild proposition but I don't know I mean I was just like like this is gonna happen and I like I'm committed and uh yeah I I think that that's kind of how I approach a lot of things is like you know saying well why couldn't we you know if if we want to get a hold of I don't know you know we're we have the honor of working with Tony Robbins right now and that was just something that I was like we get to do something with him at some point yeah so in alignment with us like it just gets to happen With that, that was your idea and you kind of manifested it.

32:39Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of this combination of like, okay, how do we do it? You know? And like, we're going to get really like resourceful and creative and scrappy and like trying to figure out a way. But then also, yeah, just like set the vision, declare it to where it kind of manifests. So yeah, I would say that that's probably my superpower. Amazing. I know that obviously kind of encapsulates determination yeah you know focus strategy um do you do things like visioning and how do you how do you set goals yeah um I mean a couple different things like I do really believe in in developing a vision almost more so than setting goals sometimes.