Only 3 Products in 12 Years: How April Gargiulo Built a Cult Skincare Brand, Vintner's Daughter

0:00Coming up in this episode of Professional Jealousy. The bottle it's in costs more than what's inside, right? I think many are like the marketing plan comes first. And for me, it was product from day one. Beauty industry tries to separate us from ourselves. Buy something that makes you feel beautiful, right? And so with us, we don't use any of those words. This isn't about a company getting built to sell three years later and then I don't care what happens after that. I want to build a heritage company. I've made every mistake there is to make, but I think the thing that I've never compromised on is that vision around like quality.

0:43Natasha Jakubowski:Hi, I'm Natasha Jakubowski, Chief Innovation Officer at Anomaly, a global marketing agency. And this is my podcast, Professional Jealousy, where I'm lucky enough to talk to founders, CEOs and creatives that I'm impressed by and yes, a little envious of. So today I'm talking with April Gargiulo, the founder and CEO of Vintner's Daughter, an amazing, gorgeous, performance-driven nutritional skincare company, which I'll definitely ask about. We'll be chatting about her career path that started at her parents' winery before founding her skincare brand, her thoughts about how to achieve cult product status and how to succeed in the ridiculously cluttered world of beauty.

1:35Natasha Jakubowski:April, hello. Natasha, thank you for having me. I'm so excited. For anyone who doesn't know Vintner's Daughter, can you give us the elevator pitch? The elevator pitch. We make, like you said, performance-driven nutritional skincare. While most formulas take a couple hours to make, our formulas take between three and six weeks to make every single bottle. They begin with whole plants, some of the most nutrient-rich whole plants in the world, plants that we protect through this phytoradiance infusion technology, because that is how we're able to have such a direct connection to our skin. We're able to speak truth to the skin through our formulas.

2:19And so not only do you put it on once and, you know, you're a glowing goddess. It's really about just like our bodies when we feed it well. It's about this iterative process, this compounding process. us so it was um or it is something that as you know is very near and dear to my heart we make three extraordinary products everything we do is about incredible multi-beneficial steps and we've only made three products in like 12 years which is you know insane in the beauty world yeah no

2:52Natasha Jakubowski:amazing um so many questions because because you really do have a very different kind of take on it and and as you said three products versus just constantly you know putting out new skews is really unusual um what is the talk to me about you talk you've trademarked the nutritional skincare what is how do you think about that element of the the vintner's daughter kind of Yeah. Well, so my background, my family makes wine in Napa Valley. So I grew up in this family, in this community that places an incredibly high value on quality, on craftsmanship, on the time it takes to make something extraordinary.

3:36And so I wanted to apply that methodology that just take no prisoners from a quality standpoint to skincare, which is what I knew wasn't out there. I mean I was paying$400 for you know some fancy skincare cream and before this all started was looking at the ingredients and kind of doing my research and realizing that I paid$400 for this and the bottle it's in costs more than what's inside right so that was when I was like oh you know oh my god I need to do this and so like I said I started to apply this to um to to skincare and the, you know, the nutritional skincare piece came out of that. It wasn't necessarily like, it has to be natural.

4:25It was really about, let me start where these traditional luxury skincare manufacturers are. And let me just keep peeling back the layers of shortcuts and cutting corners and choosing cheaper. Let me just keep, you know, peeling back that onion. And as I did, I got to a place where the only way I can have the impact on the skin that I want is if I start with whole plants. And so that whole plant, that phytoradiance infusion technology, it's half wisdom, half technology. What we're doing is something people have been creating for centuries. Just no one is willing to take the time to do it anymore, basically.

5:04So it's that nutritional piece. It's why we call it nutritional skincare, because it's really feeding your skin at this

5:10Natasha Jakubowski:very deep, deep level. Amazing. Yeah. And like, so most kind of skincare founders often start with, well, if, you know, maybe they start with the lab. You started with a pregnancy, I read, like, can you take us back to the moment that you thought, okay, I'm going to do this? did you yeah it was okay so the pregnancy is what made me start looking at the back of those things right like that that was it and I I so I was you know researching everything and again what what struck that stood out to me more than like anything being like and most of the time it is unhealthy for you know our our skin our our bodies the environment our water systems was just how again, like I could not believe how cheaply made they were.

6:05It was like mind blowing how cheap they were. And so, yes, it started from a place of pregnancy as first time moms. Like, you know, you start looking at all the ingredients of like everything in your house. And I was really aware of everything else for the most part. And skin, I, cause I always had bad skin. Like I dealt with, I've had, I shouldn't say bad, but whatever I had, like, um, you know, cystic acne and pigmentation and all the fun things that come as you get older. And it was one place I had my head in the sand because I thought I would have to compromise to a performance standpoint to use something that was natural.

6:41So our formulas from day one were about performance. It was about how do I get the absolute best performance? I don't mean performance in the natural category. I mean performance, you know, and they're just performance. And it had to be multi-beneficial performance because ironically, I'm not the girl who wants to go in the bathroom and spend 30 minutes putting 12 different steps on. Like that is my idea of fun. So it was really about creating fewer products and not as a gimmick, right? I think there's a lot of brands now that are like fewer or better and they come out with three and then, you know, six months later there's 50.

7:19Like this was, right? This was a real commitment to only create a game-changing multi-beneficial product so that you could use less and ultimately get better results.

7:31Natasha Jakubowski:Yeah. And how, I mean, I know this is going to sound idiotic, but like, how do you literally start? Oh, okay. Literally. Yes. So there was women in my life who knew that I wanted to do this and I would talk to one and then that person would say, you should probably go talk to this person. Or I would just start researching women that I, you know, looked up to. I'm in Northern California. It is and has been a place where herbalists and naturalists and women growing and creating these, you know, concoctions, medicine, healing potions, whatever you want to say. And there's this ecosystem. And there are these women who were just incredibly generous with their time.

8:22And like I said, I would talk to one and they'd be like, who else do you think I should talk to? And then, you know, two more, and it would just be this sort of, you know, tree that grew out from there. So that eventually was how the formula was created. I had a very kind of precise vision of what I wanted the formula to do. It needed to be, I knew I wanted it to be an oil format. I knew it had to be incredible for acne-prone skin, me, and I knew it had to, again, have this multi-beneficial. So I needed it to lift and plump and mitigate pigmentation and create cellular turnover. It had to be a lot.

9:03Not just natural, but it works. No, this wasn't like a finishing oil. This had to be a high-powered serum. So by the time I had the actual formula developed, I knew that it was we started with these incredibly nutrient-rich whole plants over three weeks. We captured all that beautiful nutrition, all in the perfect ratios. And we had this extraordinary bottle of serum, the active botanical serum. So coming from winemaking, it takes three years to make a bottle of wine, right? Three years. And then aging and what have you. And then a year of growing all of the grapes. So my time horizon that I was thinking, that I was used to, was like three to five years to put out a product.

9:43So I thought three weeks was like nothing. I was like, this is genius. This only takes three weeks. and then I started talking to labs and they were like you've lost your mind like oh you aren't you like aren't you cute like you know like little kind of pat on the head and because they had never worked on anything like this they never spent more than three to six hours making anything like it just wasn't in their wheelhouse like they it wasn't like in their vernacular like they didn't even know how to wrap their head around it and um so that was probably also like that was something from a professional standpoint, that had I not had that kind of that winemaking world behind me of just this understanding of how important time is, how important your raw materials are, and how important it is to honor those, I don't know that I would have had the, I don't know, the backbone sounds dramatic, but I don't know that I would have had the perseverance to keep moving forward and saying, no, no, no, this formula matters.

10:39This is important. And like, this is game changing. So that getting the lab took a while.

10:43Natasha Jakubowski:Yeah, I do feel like, you know, it is very different from how a lot of skincare brands come up where it's just about some pretty packaging and some contract manufacturing. You know, the idea of taking your time, really thinking about, you know, the ingredients and the mix and the kind of the purposefulness of your is an amazing part of you know your story that I feel like quite a few brands play with the slow beauty or the those kinds of thoughts but then as you said then they come out with tons of products. And I think many are and it's the world we live in it's not just skin care I think many are like the marketing plan comes first yeah do you know what I mean like the the marketing idea comes first and then product comes second and for me it was product from day one like it I didn't even it didn't even I didn't even think of what a name was going to be for this like nothing right it was just about what was inside that bottle yeah I mean I do love the name and obviously there's there's a wink there to the fact that you are a fitness daughter and it is a gorgeous brand like how did you so you've got these amazing kind of formula then how did you do the branding how did you think i know it's sustainable and good packaging but um in terms of the design stuff it's it was everything we do is driven by performance right like we don't we don't craft a scent we don't it everything we do is about performance every every ingredient we choose every everything every box we choose every glass we shoes, every seal we choose.

12:27It's all about ensuring and maintaining the performance of it. So, I mean, you've seen our packaging. It's pretty simple. I mean, right? It's very simple. Like, you know, the idea wasn't about, let me sell this based on packaging, right? That was the thing that I was kind of like grossed out by in skincare that was like, oh, I just, again, I just paid for the packaging because what's inside is like worthless. So, but the, you know, our glass comes from a scientific manufacturer in Germany who created this very specific kind of glass. It looks black, but it's actually really, really dark violet.

13:07And it is only allows certain light rays to go in. So it doesn't spray inside. Exactly. That's something from winemaking, like something like I know is critical for preserving and even being able to enhance what's inside the bottle. Like you would never put, you know, a Napa Valley Cabernet or a Bordeaux in a clear glass bottle, right? And expect it to be beautiful. You have to protect and honor what's inside. So it was never a choice about marketing. I mean, if I was making a choice on marketing, Natasha, I would have the clearest glass ever. Because have you seen how beautiful that color is?

13:46Yeah. Like clear as day. It would be like you could just like swirl it around and just like, you know, enjoy that color. But interesting.

13:55Natasha Jakubowski:I do think, I mean, how one of the interesting things that you've managed to do that I feel, again, a lot of brands are hoping to create a cult hero product. But that's what you achieved. you know you had celebrities you managed to kind of get this insider's cult beauty uh brand status how how did you do that was it did you do anything or it just happened because people loved the product or like what sort of marketing did you do in the early years how did people find it i didn't i mean i made great product like that literally that's what it was and people told each other i knew no one i mean i was coming from napa valley i was coming from a wine growing i didn't I didn't know one.

14:41And just word spread. Natasha, I started this. I had a, I had like a website built with like a PayPal account in the back. My first email about this was from a Hotmail account. Right? It was like so lo-fi what I was doing. So lo-fi.

14:59Natasha Jakubowski:It was your first run. How many products was your first run? I had to beg my lab to maybe their normal kind of minimum, minimum, I think was 10 ,000, 5 ,000. I can't remember now. And I had to beg them to only do, I think, 500. And also that felt like jumping off a ledge to me. Like, oh, my God, how am I going to sell 500? And then what happened is I started, I mean, you know, the first 100 orders were from friends and families, I'm sure. But then I started to, because I would pack every box, like it was me. And so then I'm printing the labels and all this stuff. But then I started seeing people that like I didn't know.

15:39And from places I've never been, and it just started growing. I think with anything that becomes what, you know, cult or what have you, everyone sort of thinks that it just was shot out of a cannon and it was there. But there's so much work. and um no i was i'm i was really lucky i'm still really lucky today that the people who use it vintner's daughter um like very generously tell their friends tell their family i mean we've heard stories of people getting stopped on the street what are you using on your skin and right and so um it's it's i always say we grew g to g girlfriend to girlfriend and that that was it that that's still it yeah and yes some of those some of those girlfriends are you know some of those girlfriends are big so um right okay any tips for people thinking about

16:38Natasha Jakubowski:i mean i do think beauty is one of the most that and beverages maybe one of the most crazy cluttered you know just so many brands almost disposable brands that just come and go almost nice for people thinking about going into the beauty space? Well, it's okay. So this is something I don't really talk that much about. And it's woven throughout our brand. But if you don't know, you won't see it. I think it's subliminal. I think you feel it, but you might not see it. I think anytime if you pick up a bottle and it makes you feel like less than, and that's why you should buy it, I think you have to kind of, and this is maybe woo-woo, I don't know, but I I think it's real.

17:21I think the beauty industry tries to separate us from ourselves, tries to tell us that we need to get fixed because we're broken. We need to get corrected because we're wrong. We need to not age because apparently us being dead is, you know, the preferable thing. We need to transform ourselves because, you know, we're not we're not fine the way we are. Like there's just a lot of words that get used a lot in there. whatever it's not like they're each one is earth like earth shattering but it's like an accumulation right and so I think if you're you're buying something because you think you need to fix something or correct something or like you're like you're feeling somehow badly about yourself like that bottle is not going to do it like buy something that makes you feel beautiful right and so with us we don't use any of those words again I could put it in a clear patch package or a clear glass and spray paint, you know, all of it and fix and correct and transform and all these words, but we don't.

18:23And I think there's a feeling there. Like, I really think there is a feeling there that whether you recognize it or not, when you're using Vintner's daughter, like, you feel good. I, we have, we have, I mean, our community is extraordinary, but we've had community members, like many, write something to the effect of, this has changed my relationship to my skin. and for me that's a huge piece of it I would love for women to go from a place of kind of feeling insecure about their skin to a place of joy and confidence and gratitude in their skin and there's a lot that goes into that of course but if I can do any piece of that it is something that is really important to me yeah no and I think that's so different and hopefully something you know I think there's a a kind of biofication in the market almost like you've got

19:19Natasha Jakubowski:the anti-ageings and to be honest like that I mean I'm always a mate I live in Soho um in New York and and I cannot tell you how many injection med spa places are just popping up that sell you know Botox fillers but also GLP-1s that you can just buy like you've got that whole You don't need a prescription? I don't think so. I mean, I think, I mean, like you can inject all these things and then the whole kind of, yeah, the whole new look of women today and older celebrities. And then you've got the other side that I think there is like a reaction to that. And like talking about something that's more about feeling good and confidence.

20:04I think there's kind of a split out there.

20:09Natasha Jakubowski:It's hard, right? I mean, because neither of those is bad or good or whatever, right? Like, you have to go on what feels good to you. But I think the thing that's hard is understanding, like, not the what, but like the why. Understanding the why is really hard, right? It's just hard. And getting increasingly hard every single day. And I don't think any of us get to see a full spectrum of information or a full spectrum of viewpoints. because, you know, our apertures because of algorithms, what have you, like just keep getting smaller and smaller and smaller. So it's really hard to see like above this kind of world that we live in.

20:53Natasha Jakubowski:Yeah. No, do you, I mean, do you have a why, like something that you think about in terms of what, what, what is kind of driving what you're doing or what the brand is about? I'm just wondering, as a strategist, I'm wondering if you have like an actual. Yeah. I have, I mean, I have our vision, our mission is to become one of the very first luxury skincare brands in the U.S., right? We're creating, I'm not, this isn't about quarterly earnings or, I mean, listen, we have to have a profitable company. No, it can be wrong. But this isn't about building a company that gets, how about I say it like this?

21:32This isn't about a company getting built to sell three years later and then I don't care what happens after that, right? I got my money out of it. I'm good. I want to build a heritage company. I want to build something that our values last. Our values are impactful, not only to our community, but to the beauty world. I mean, I came into this thinking, oh, no one's going to use anti-aging anymore in five years. That's ridiculous. No one's going to use. And meanwhile, what do I know? um and then so you know i've got a big poster in my office it says this was for our 10-year anniversary it says 10 years down 100 more to go and that's what i that's my that's my horizon

22:16Natasha Jakubowski:that that's our north star how do you think about so you mentioned six weeks uh kind of development process for um for a formula how do you scale i mean it is luxury price points but how do you think about scaling and keeping that cult status like there's a tension there like how do you grow quality and still kind of look to grow quality I mean quality is always number one like the quality is never compromised sourcing is never compromised I mean we're also a b-corp so sustainability is never compromised impact on our earth and her people is never compromised positive beauty never compromised.

22:59And so to that end, we have to find partners who are ready to embrace that. And we're really lucky that there are, right? We have, and I mean retail partners, but I really mean like operational and labs and, you know, people who are making our boxes, people who are, you know, growing our raw materials. That ecosystem is something that is really supportive of us and we're not, you know, we've had years where it's just like insane growth. Like, you know, you're always like holding on for dear life. Um, you know, we have, um, a much more kind of sustainable growth trajectory that is very intentional and again, allows us to grow for, um, you know, decades versus, you know, quarters.

23:48Yeah.

23:49Natasha Jakubowski:Um, and do you do marketing now? or yeah no i mean i'm talking to you yeah what's your what's your strategy now in terms of um i mean we're not doing a big advertising we have like um uh ads we do on meta but it's not we don't we don't ever any nothing goes on sale we never it's never a buy one get one free it's never a bundle like ever just doesn't happen um so we're you know we have incredible um creator communities. We have incredible, you know, stockist partners who there's a physical retail environment that women people can go into and experience our brand. There's, it's quieter marketing, I would say.

24:33And like many kind of smaller things that kind of add up. But our women, our community, I mean, these are really discerning people. It's the thing that I know most. We had a study done on our, you know, kind of trying to understand our demographics and um and you know intuitively i already knew this yeah what we realized is that there's really not a single it's a it's a very big generation or age range she's not just living on the coast what we know is that she is they are like just they are the most discerning women they're the most discerning women in their group they're the most discerning women in you know their community they don't settle for less and i don't mean they're the most like that they have they're spending the most money i mean what they buy what they bring into their house has to live up to

25:27Natasha Jakubowski:values yeah and then shared mindset around the kinds of products they buy i can kind of almost imagine the brands outside of beauty that they're buying right exactly they're it's brands with integrity, right? I mean, that's, I don't know, but ultimately that's what it is. Would you consider Vint and Storto almost like a quiet luxury brand? Does it fit that kind of world? I don't even know what that means anymore. Yeah, 25 years ago, yes. Like, do you know what you mean? It's hard to even point to who that is anymore, right? 25 years ago, you were like, easy breezy like that's who it is not so quiet anymore so um it's you know and and the luxury piece is questionable too so it's you know it's i would say we're craftsmen i was saying like we're we're craftsmanship we are the person making the most you know in a studio in kyoto making the most beautiful knife we're the person in um oh my gosh like weaving the most beautiful basket we're the person who is carving something just perfectly it's it's about this level of craftsmanship and attention to detail and creating something that is incredibly positive impactful not just for a minute but for a lifetime yeah um i know that you've got some new products coming out yes i never get to talk about new natasha i know i and this is a big deal like i'm already like wow that's i forgot about it already i know so i mean like what what so first you know not that this is radically increasing but like it kind of is because you're going from three to a couple more so what what prompted you to start thinking about um growing growing your portfolio it's crazy and adding and adding so well one of them is a limited edition that we that we do every every year there's a there's a the the quality of the harvest is where we want it we do it so this is i think our third or fourth we do a scent so it's a limited edition scented oil we work with a master perfumer who left kind of synthetic scent world to really have felt like more of a challenge with natural.

27:56She also, and this is something that I don't love about traditional scent, is that it's so static, like it doesn't evolve. And so she really wanted that challenge, really. And so we work with her. It's called Understory. Understory is the space in a forest between the canopy and the ground floor and everything that's happening and in between. And that was really what the scent was meant to represent. And so we have our, like I said, I think it's our third, well, it's our third or fourth vintage edition of Understory, which we're really excited about. And then we have our, so that phytoradiance infusion piece, that's the heart and soul of every product we make.