Izakaya 102: Some of Our Recommendations for Good Sake, Good Food, and Good Company

0:22Welcome back and thank you for tuning in to another episode of Sake On Air, the world's first podcast dedicated to expanding the dialogue surrounding Japan's iconic beverages, sake, shochu, and of course, Aomori. Our show is made possible with the support of the Japan Sake and Shochu Makers Association. Usually we record from Toru no Mon, but today we are on Zoom. My name is Frank Wolter and I am joined by Christopher Hughes. Hey, Chris. Hey, hey. And Cindy Bissig. Hey, Cindy. Hello. Today we are going to be talking about Izakaya. But unlike our Izakaya 101 episode, this is going to be a bit more of our personal recommendations across Japan, with a particular focus in Tokyo and Kyoto, because I know a lot of people like to go there.

1:08So Chris, you're our Tokyo man. Cindy, you're our Kyoto lady. And I'm going to take up the rest of Japan with all my weird little places that I've found that I like a lot on my various business trips. So let's get started. Okay, so we're starting in Tokyo, yeah? Yeah, I think so. Okay. Well, chances are you're going to come to Tokyo if you come to Japan, I think. It's just the capital of cool. And so I'm going to start with my local. And it's the izakaya, which I most want people to go to if they come to Japan. Because I have a personal connection with the izakaya. I want to see them survive and succeed.

1:49and they're doing a lot of hard work to try and make themselves known to as many people from overseas as they can i think they've got probably like thousands of reviews on their trip advisor google maps and it's all basically a lot of it is through word of mouth and also the incredible service that they provide which is second to none i've never because where is this what is this place called i know can let me big it up a little bit let me think about it first you're burying the lead man okay okay all right enough of the trailer you know as i do things these days right uh so this place is called gashue and it is located in ueno ueno is definitely a hub in tokyo that i think you will most likely travel through on your way if you come in through Narita Airport you are most likely to go through Ueno.

2:42Haneda not so much and Ueno is actually a very popular place to stay as well because the hotels are probably should say were slightly on the cheaper side I think maybe not so much these days but it's also a really cool place just to hang out because it is kind of a mix of downtown and uptown Tokyo. It's often referred to as the gateway to Tokyo and Ueno of course is famous for its park where you can see the lovely cherry blossoms but yeah Gashue is my local I live in Ueno very close to Ueno and this place opened just before the pandemic and as I do actually provide special experiences for tourists at this venue because they are so easy to work with like I said the service that they're providing is second or not even if you don't take my experience you still get this incredible introduction to sake you don't pay anything extra for it the owner is a massive lover of sake um it's basically a father and son run izakaya and the father is the one that comes out and in his best english as he possibly can which is improving he basically gives you this little introduction to sake and the great thing about this place is that they are dedicated to sake they have one of the most extensive menus sake menus i think in tokyo and they're constantly rotating the sake keeping it fresh introducing new breweries they do actually run meet the brewery events so if you're in tokyo at a particular time and you can time it right you might actually be able to join one of these meet the brewer events where you can actually basically taste an entire brewery's lineup and speak to ask questions to often the president comes along or the toji or one of the main sales people and yeah gashua if you're looking for a place you're in tokyo and you don't know where to go you just want to try sake you've always wanted to discover sake you want to explore sake as much as possible i can't think of a better place to check out in tokyo than gashui and i second that yeah cindy is a regular there as well when okay when she's in tokyo right because i always stay in ueno because it is such a great um hub to kind of venture out and do stuff so me and chris have occasionally sake and dined in in kashui so yeah check this place out sorry frank i was gonna suggest can i can i make an off the wall comparison sure so dave and miwa in hachioji with sake dozo kitchen which is a bit harder to get to right from yeah it's far less central but dave and where on the show they talked about like expressing sake in your own language and stuff like that i feel like gashui and sake dojo kitchen while different have a very similar vibe oh yeah where it's kind of like homey homey food and then you've got this guy who just wants you to drink and like sake a lot yeah and is willing to like be like hey i've got this special one you got to go try it you got to try this guys i feel like there's a lot the vibe is very similar so it's kind of like the two points of these very homey sake lover spots maybe in Tokyo I completely agree and the other thing I would point out is that one of the main draws of this place I think is that it's a very modern looking izakaya it's not the traditional wooden grungy smoky kind of quite scary place and this one of the uh concepts behind uh Gashui was developing was delivering a more elegant and modern experience for people who perhaps normally wouldn't go to drink at an izakaya is there a place like that in kyoto cindy kind of the same sort of vibe well you know i think kyoto is is interesting because it's very different to the vibe that you have in tokyo i i think there might be similar places i i have one on top of my mind that might go in a similar direction because i think the owner is very much in the same spirit as kako-san it's like jam plus sake bar jam jam plus sake bar yes like jam like spread jam on toast jam yeah is there jam it's spelled like that jam but is it that we don't know is it maybe musical jam like no the thing is like i think it comes from they have a hostel that's part of it so the ground floor entrance is basically the sake bar and then upstairs they have rooms um that people can book and stay at so it has this younger vibe so what you've been saying there earlier chris like i think gashua is is also that style right it's a bit younger style it's a bit more modern it still has an amazing sake selection and the guys at jam they're pretty much the same they don't do brewer's evenings they wouldn't have a lot of these but they somehow get their hands on a lot of unique things so i've been there recently and i was there with a guy from a brewery and that person brought like his sake and he was like here want to try my sake and then the guys from jam were like oh you gave us this let's find something interesting for you and then they were rummaging through their fridges and they brought a bottle of reigen from berlin which the guys gave them as a gift and then we were able to drink that so it was really really great so i think it sounds awesome i want to check this place out it sounds cool yeah it's very cool now and i think that might be the closest to what you would say is it as approachable do you think as it is because it is also the accommodation right and they do not fluently speak english but um they do speak a couple of languages a little bit and because they're used to deal also with foreigners it's a really nice place to come in and be like okay you know um they are excited to see you because that's their business right they already have an accommodation they're excited to have you and introduce sake um and they have great little foods as well sounds very similar yeah i really want to check this place out sounds cool yeah i would say for like other parts of the country that i've been to i mean this kind of this kind of place is like all over but also you kind of have to find it on your own um for shochu there's a place very similar called uh shochu bar tanegashima which is on the island of tanegashima so no one is going there but it's it's a it's a guy and his wife and they do like home style food and he has just a bunch of shochus and is just very excited to be like hey you don't you've never had shochu before try this try this try this try this try it this way so it's definitely like a little you want to i feel like you want to look maybe for a slightly modern exterior but that's still pretty like warm and friendly and kind of not not fancy looking on the inside i feel like that's kind of the vibe yeah sounds sounds similar-ish i think frank you're going to be our off the beaten path yes uh option right that's the idea i might throw a few in if you get there yeah i'm not going to have any off the beaten patterns i don't think because i rarely go off the beaten path i guess that's not my my thing um but uh i know how fun it can be though yeah so like because like if we're talking about kagoshima like for shochu the classics the classic shokushu bars are uh roku and ishizue which a friend of the show maya ailey still works at um it's not the same vibe right because they're way more fancy i feel like or fancy is the wrong word they're they're more like a bar bar and less of like a dude kind of almost welcoming you into his converted house to drink lots of sake and eat food.

11:06Which is what the Tanigashima one is. Which is very much the Tanigashima one is way more Gashue, way more Dave and Miwa Sakedozo Kitchen vibes. Cool. Are there any more bar places that you would recommend in Tokyo, Chris? Let me think. Yeah. And Sydney in Kyoto, of course. I mean, not like bars in sort of... No, actually. Actually, there is one, which is definitely more like a bar i'm not sure i guess when people think of bar everyone has a different sort of image about what that is but it's not kind of like a 1960s retro you know jazz kind of type bar i don't know any places like that that do sakes they tend to be more kind of cocktails and western style right i think that's generally accepted isn't it but there's a really cool place in a part of tokyo called kagura zaka and it's called sake bar otonari i was i've only actually been there once to be quite honest and i was actually introduced to this well i was rather taken to this bar by a friend of mine and it's kind of it's quite an unique place not so much the facade uh i think it's just if i remember correctly it's in the the basement of a building that doesn't look particularly special in any way but the inseria design is really really really quite unusual quite unique kind of more traditional looking it looks like what i would imagine a traditional japanese bar to look like you know from back in old japan but at the same time it's got some modern twists to it as well the sake menu is absolutely amazing and the food menu is quite unique as well they've got things like uh cheese toasties on the menu which which go really well uh with with the sake i am and i think that's actually all we ordered when we went there maybe some ham as well a cheese toasty is like a grilled cheese yeah well you would call it a grilled cheese but you can't call it a grilled cheese it's a cheese toasty come on it's cheese on toast i'm from british versus the american come on the british invented cheese on toast um maybe question mark uh tell us in the comments but um i like i said i've only been once but it left a really strong impression and i definitely want to go back but i honestly don't think i've been anywhere quite like this place since so yeah it's it's really close to a place called isetou which is like one of the few places you can get a sake called hakutaka which is um the sake that's like given to one of my favorite um isei shrine yeah but isetou is like the exact opposite vibe because it's it's it's super dark it you're not really supposed to talk or interact with people you're just supposed to like eat your chikua and drink your like atsukan hakutaka in silence and like think about think about the world and the the ukiyo uh and then leave but it's like it's like almost across the street which is kind of funny interesting yeah it's one of these silent bars isn't it they're all the rage weren't they some years back like where you're not allowed to talk they have like when they want to communicate they have like signs and things that they put it's not it's not that level it's more just like the atmosphere is just not conducive to being like wow we're having a fun time it's much more like i am a i am a very shibui salary man yeah and i have finished work and i'm having a little drink before i go home kind of thing I think it has to be said as well that Kagura Zaka, just in general, is a great place to go sake bar hopping or sake izakaya hopping.

15:11There are so many. I wouldn't profess to know every single one in Kagura Zaka, but I do know another one, which Sebastian is a massive fan of and goes to quite a lot. And I'm hearing a lot more about it. It's actually, it is listed on the internet and it is quite easy to find. I have yet to go myself, so I can't talk so much about it. But Sebastian is always raving about this place called Seigetsu. Yes. Quite an old izakaya, I understand, but quite a big izakaya. And I think quite welcoming to foreign visitors in general. perhaps we can talk about that in another episode because I don't know anything about it but yeah so that's my kind of recommendation of a sort of a more bar like bar in Tokyo and a shout out to Christy and Mario for taking me to that place and don't think I ever would have found it otherwise I heard it here first what about you Cindy is there like a I go to Kyoto every so often but I do not spend time in Kyoto Is there like an area of the city you could go and like do like a sake kind of focused bar hopping thing?

16:31Do you know, I was researching a little bit last night and I was walking around and maybe sampling some sake as a preparation for recording today. And I was actually really surprised because I think we have kind of our usual suspects of where we're going because we love the places and we know kind of what we can expect. So I think maybe the downside of living in one place is that you're not as adventurous in trying to discover as much as people might do when they're just arriving and they come for a week or two. But I was attempting this last night and I went to an area called Pontocho, which is one of the five Kanigeisha districts.

17:12when you think about busy in terms of tokyo you think everything skyscraper and and lots of everything i think in Kyoto everything is a little bit on a smaller scale but Ponto is one of these places where you have like this little maze of streets where you'd have two or three floors four floors there's a different restaurant different bar on every floor and then you go into a hallway and it opens up to another hallway and you kind of just walk around and you discover restaurants in izakaya so as i was walking to the sake bar that i was going to i actually found two other sake bars randomly okay so i was like oh let me cross this onto my map here let me save this here so we went to the sake bar that we were intended to go to then walk back to a different sake bar five ten minutes away um so pondo to it's actually a really great place because it has this high density in Kyoto of entertainment.

18:12I think it is kind of the entertainment district just next door where you have a nightclub and you have a lot of where young people will kind of go out. So yeah, this is definitely also available, but it might not be as obvious because when we think Kyoto, we think Gion and temples and shrines, but there is certainly areas where you can bar hop. Although I think one thing we have to mention about Kyoto, which may or may not be obvious. It's not that it is unfriendlier than Tokyo or other places, but I do think there's always been a little bit of mystery about certain establishments and with many or more often than not, you do get to a place where you will not get in.

18:57And it's not because you're a foreigner, it's just because they don't do first-time customers. So unless you've introduced you will never come in even if you are Japanese I feel like I have to mention it although it's not my favorite topic but I mean we are dealing with a lot of tourists coming and with a lot of people not always understanding the culture and the etiquette of going to establishments or bars so there has been a bit of a trend of also some bars not being necessarily as welcoming to foreigners but there is still plenty who are and I think my list of bars are actually all people who love people coming from overseas.

19:34So something to keep in mind. It's not to be the downer of this episode, but it is unfortunately part of the reality if you're going out in, especially Kyoto, because it is a little bit more private. And just to make it clear, that means that they're turning away people, not just because you're a foreign visitor, they may be turning you away also just simply because you've never been to that place before. it's something in Japanese what's it called in Japanese Ichigen Kotowari which literally means you'll get turned away if it's your first time someone needs to bring you as a guest and that's how you get into the place next time so yeah don't be offended by that it happens in Tokyo as well but I think Kyoto is notorious for it I think it has that culture oh absolutely even Japanese people say people in Kyoto are unique yes that's a good word unique unique um but you know i i was listening to your bars and i mean there is two places that i actually did think about um one and that couldn't be more different to be honest as well and then i guess what you said frank is actually very true like there's so many different types of bars and restaurants in japan you know there is that you sit in silence and you just enjoy what's in front of you.

20:58And there is this where people actually have a bit of a, you know, a good time. So I think the first bar that I would recommend for people to go is actually very close to the famous Nishiki Market. So it's very downtown. And it is, again, something that's a bit newer, hipper. It's a stand bar. It has a young team. They do speak English, not perfect, but they can communicate. it's called Kobayashi Sake 10 and they have a lot of Kyoto sake obviously because I think that's one of the things because we have so many breweries so close to us most bars and isekaias will stock Kyoto sake and then they have a couple of other things to add on it's a fun place to go if you're before dinner or if you just finish dinner when you have one or two more drinks they also have DJs in the weekend so you basically are in a stamp bar you can walk in you can also be outside on tables in the alleyway and have a bit of music it's a younger crowd it's it's really more about like grabbing a drink before going out or after having dinner so a little bit different but I like that we have these varieties but yeah I that sounds really cool I'm definitely gonna to try and get to Kyoto at some point myself been a long time since I've been and yeah this is a standing bar right it is a standing bar and they do have a little private room upstairs where they sometimes do events so I actually been to an event there with a shochu maker from Kagoshima and Gensake from Mie okay yeah yeah which again was like eight people Japanese only I think a lot of limited in terms of language um availability but yeah they're they're young and they want to do new things and they're really excited about promoting sake and local beers as well so there's not just sake you can also have kyoto craft beers and and kyoto chin so it's it's a nice way to start and not intimidating because i think what i like about stamp bars you can just go and have one drink you know and if you're not into it you can you can move out but you haven't had to commit there's no commitment yeah exactly i completely agree so then the other bar and you guys know this and i think many of our listeners also know this it's it's sake bar yoramu oh yeah and i do feel it has to be mentioned because it prays i really like to go and i especially like to go when people come visiting for the first time because it's very small you know it's a nine counter seats only.

23:41He doesn't take reservation. You can't go with groups bigger than three people because it is a bit of an intimate experience. Like he wants to talk to the people and explain the sake. So everything he has in his fridges is curated, you know, and he knows the story of every bottle. Often he has home aged them himself for, I don't know how many years. I think there is stuff in there from 1999 and you can give it a try. He likes things that are more complex. He's not going to give you very bland jackets. So you go in there and it's really an experience with someone who knows very well what's on his shelves.

24:20Good to know is as well, there's no price on any bottles. So if you go, what people normally do is you can give them a budget. So you can say like, oh, I want to, I have maybe like 5 ,000 yen. That's what, maybe 30,$40. dollars um and then you just sell him what you kind of like to drink and he gives you a a um recommendation often he gives you a teeny tiny sip to try and then you can decide whether you want a glass or not so there's also no shame of saying like oh actually i would like something a little bit more aged and then he'll bring a different bottle give you a little taster and you take it from there and it's it's really a much more intimate experience where he's very happy when you actually are interested to know more but it is a more quiet place like there so people are expected to be not on the rowdier side yeah don't go in there and just like start shouting and and and like talking about how much sake knowledge you have and that will rub him up the wrong way and i you know he he's he's incredibly knowledgeable but he has a particular ambience that he wants to to keep and a particular service that he wants to deliver again don't go in there and start you know going demanding what type of sake you want to have let him be the one to guide you because actually you'll have a much better experience because of it and that's the whole point of the place it is an incredibly unique place but it is definitely a place that is worth a visit.

25:53Yes and to be honest it is busy. If you really want to go check it out try to go there at six o 'clock when it opens. Yeah. You know get the seat and get a few drinks and then maybe move on to your second spot. But yeah look I think when we're looking even at the Google reviews they are a little bit divided. I think people either love it or they don't. I think most people do really enjoy it because of the knowledge but it is a certain type of service and if you want to just go in and order a couple of drinks and leave that's not your place you know you will not enjoy yourself and yeah I it helps if like like on this show you've got someone telling you what to expect and then I think perhaps it's a it's a more likely that you're going to have a good time once you understand the rules of the establishment and what to expect yeah just don't don't expect to go into a normal bar with a menu you know you're literally going to meet the person and his fridge and he's gonna guide you through it at his pace you know but one of the best experiences i've had with sake was i think my time and your ramen i've only been once but um he's a great guy and uh a sake samurai as well now a few years ago he was made a sake samurai Right.

27:06Yeah, I definitely recommend visiting there myself. Now, back in Tokyo, before we go to Frank's out there, no doubt, off the beaten track, out there, weird recommendations. As far as standing bars go, I think it doesn't get any more famous and well known than the Kuri standing bar in Ginza. there are actually a number of kuri standing bars but the one that i've been to most recently is actually on the basement floor of ginza station yes there is one on the ground floor of the station but i haven't been to that one so i can't talk about that one but the one on the basement floor is incredible first of all the sake selection is second to none if you want to discover something new they got you covered if you want to just drink you know what you're familiar with they'll probably have that particular brand or something from that particular brewery and also the food is quite good as well the dishes i mean they're only little side dishes because it is a standing bar so it isn't designed to be a restaurant so to speak but the dishes that they serve are also pretty cool as well and it has this really lovely community vibe there will be a lot of regulars in there but there will also be people in there that have never been there before and everyone kind of looks after each other the regulars will come and sort of interact with you a little bit and it's just you're very close together that's the other thing generally you're sharing one long table with other patrons and then you have another table behind you and then another table behind that one so everyone's very close together you can hear each other's conversations and eventually they bleed into each other and it just by the end of like maybe two hours of drinking it's uh it turns into this incredible community vibe and i think that's why it's so popular in tokyo so frank what can you recommend off the beaten path off the beaten path um well like there are lots of places kind of like that where it's like one individual right who's not doing it to make the big bucks.

29:28They're doing it because they kind of want to have a relationship with all of the customers that come in. And so there's a bunch of places that I've been to that have felt very similar, but at the same time, it's like you kind of got to go explore and find those places on your own a little bit. So I was going to mention, take it a slightly different direction, and I was going to talk about one of the Sasaki Shuzos. um so in up in miyagi prefecture near sendai you have um sasaki shuzo 10 which was destroyed by 311 um which as of recording was 13 years ago now no a little bit 12 12 or 13 years ago but um they rebuilt right on the natori river and right next to them is this series of restaurants and like souvenir shops called Kawamachi Terrace Yuriage.

30:26And so like you have the sake brewery and then you have a bunch of places where you can like get food to take out and kind of like sit along the river. And I've been there a couple of times with friends and it's really delightful as this kind of like, they're selling sake to be consumed on site, but it's not actually the sake brewery doing the restaurants and stuff. It's like a collaborative effort, which is really quite cool. That sounds awesome. I don't know if the sake shoes are that well but definitely I know that while we're speaking about brewery run izakayas, it's not Tokyo so I'm kind of moving out stepping into Frank's territory a little bit here but there's actually an amazing sake restaurant in Nagoya which is run by a wonderful sake brewery that I'm good friends with I think it will be quite well known to some of our listeners as well the izakaya is called um maru koji marutani yes koji marutani it's called koji marutani because they actually have a little like a part of the building is actually being used to make koji do like koji making experiences but the restaurant itself is just you know your normal kind of restaurant with an incredible sake menu it will of course include sake from the brewery that brewery being Sekia Jozo one of the first breweries to sort of do the make your own sake thing so I think that's probably why I expect them to be quite well known around the world and the restaurant is in an old storehouse right correct yes in an old storehouse and it's quite easy to find it's in downtown Nagoya so i mean if i remember correctly it's really close to the station it's not as close i mean you can walk because it's nagoya we're not in tokyo or everything is an hour away so i think it is about a 20 minutes walk from the station which obviously in k in tokyo distance is nothing right right from nagoya station right not from like the subway station or whatever no it's the main station i think if i remember correctly because we were getting a shinkansen from the station afterwards and that was it i just had a night in nagoya unfortunately i couldn't quite get myself to the brewery itself so i called the brewery and they said oh you must check out a restaurant okay i'm gonna do that and i remember uh they had garlic bread i don't you know i mean in in japan i mean you know proper garlic bread as you can get it sort of in italian restaurants or whatever in in the uk is a little hard to find here in japan and i have to say garlic bread and sake actually it's a really good it's a really good match you should try it so that would be my recommendation are you are you bread deprived we're talking about we're talking about grilled cheese we're talking about garlic bread like come on it's the simple pleasures in life it's the it's the comfort food but it's an impressive looking restaurant so i thought that was worth a mention no it's amazing and it's funny you're saying this because i was gonna say the same thing we're always on the same thing i was like oh i really love this and there's another place in nagoya that i think is really um something i'd love to recommend and i was thinking about it because what we forgot to say about yoram's bar is he's very strongly focused It's an aged sake.

34:00Yes. Yeah. So that's pretty much what he does and what he does really, really well. And also he aged Namasake. He ages everything and very successfully. But there is another aged sake bar and it is in Nagoya. It's called Elevage. So French word. And it's run by like a young sommelier. It's again, it's a counter style bar. It's a little bit more high end. because again everything he has is already 5, 10, 20 years old but it's really special he does again a great curation of the aged sake and once he knows that you're interested he gets really excited I think this is in the latest issue of Danchu actually it might not be the exact same it could be someone worked there and it was part of their employment history but this name I have heard no he's really great and like he goes to a lot of the sake festivals and tries new sake that he wants to introduce then through his to his bar and again he's I think he might be like in his late 30s um so again a young guy with a newer concept and yeah you can go in there and just have a couple of drinks or you can let him know that you're excited about H sake and then he will let you know a lot about where he gets things from and why things taste the way they do really great experience sounds amazing and Nagoya is I think one of my favorite places to to go Nagoya is extremely underrated in terms of bars and izakaya culture um I was just there two weeks ago and we went randomly into a sake bar it's actually a miso bar where they were specializing in miso because nagoya or aichi prefecture is also quite famous for miso yeah and we went there to for the miso but then we stayed for the sake and it was it's a great night i mean we ended up drinking with all the people in the bar at the end of it um so i was like i need to spend more time with nagoya nagoya often like boasts that they have everything when it comes to like sake they have miso they have soy sauce they have like historically they were the place that had everything that completes the whole you know umami match up um they often get yeah i agree with you nagoya often gets overlooked in pretty much everything it often gets referred to as a boring place as well which i think is unfair it was one of the first places i actually went to in japan in fact it was the first place i went to in japan the first place i landed in uh nagoya airport yeah but back in tokyo maybe um maybe some op maybe something well this isn't a bar this isn't a like a standing bar this isn't a i guess we're going back to sort of izakayas in the traditional sense but also izakayas which maybe focus more a bit more kind of higher end on on the kind of higher end higher end but not expensive and it's a little izakaya I discovered quite by chance when I was in Ebisu which already is a pretty famous area of Tokyo for drinking Ebisu of course is the name of a brand of beer and that's not a coincidence Ebisu is a massive beer drinking place but they also have a lot of great sake uh drinking holes as well the place is called chokoto chokoto i think it's not that well known because i often introduce this place to people and like never heard of it never been to it but it's a lovely you introduced this place to me i did we went well we've been together with a long time ago our good friend mac of campi planet as well and it's a cozy little izakaya there's not that many seats i've never been upstairs but i do believe there is a second floor but still i don't think there's that many seats and i think they do specialize in horse meat although that's not something that i've ever ordered there and because that entire street is actually famous for serving horse meat but what i will what i think makes this place stand out above all is their sake menu they have a sake from every single prefecture in japan on the menu which is pretty incredible and then the food is quite different from what you find in other izakayas it's not traditional izakaya fare it's quite creative cuisine i would say japanese but you could also refer to it as fusion as well yeah what did you think cindy you've been so well it's been a while you remember i do remember i also thought they had amazing pottery and plates which added to the whole experience so when you said it's a little bit more high-end i know what you're hinting at but it really didn't come with the price tag no we're expecting for what we actually got um no i love it i was actually in Tokyo a couple of months ago and I walked by it and I was like that was a great sake bar and I didn't have time to go back in I think it's a place you want to go with company agreed you know like it's a place you want to have a meal and you have amazing sake and you spend time with friends so I need to find another opportunity to go back you can go in there and drink alone because they have a counter so you know if you don't mind sitting at the counter I've been at the counter once by myself, actually.

39:48And it's nice. They look after you at the counter. You chat to the staff. The owner is very friendly. The staff are very friendly. And again, they have what we call in Japanese, which is kind of hospitality is a very bad translation for this word. But it's a kind of an extra service that you get as part of Japanese culture. and they do something which i've not come across in any other izakaya at the end when you on when you you know you pay your bill and you leave the izakaya they follow you out and they give you they give you a sachet of bath salts which include minerals from a particular famous onsen somewhere in japan i don't know whether they have every onsen but they have some of the famous ones like um kusatsu onsen or gero onsen for example because i remember that i got like a hinoki hinoki bath salt yeah yeah i'm not quite sure why i'm getting this but i'll take it you know like sure that's very cool it's such a nice little you know added and we you were talking about the vessel cindy and one of the cool things that they do that they do in a lot of izakaya actually is they bring the vessels on a on a tray yes and they they ask you to choose your own vessel so it becomes a very personal unique experience especially if you're only going to go there once so yeah i thoroughly recommend this place it's very reasonably priced i think you can get plenty of sake plenty of food for around six seven thousand per person which is incredibly reasonable and you know i was gonna say i always love when the cups come out right the basket of cups comes out and you can make something that you like which we also lovingly call the personality test because it really shows something about the other person that you might not expect you know um i'm always very curious to see which glass or which cup someone takes and sometimes you're not expecting the combination sometimes that's because they just they literally just take it at random they're not thinking about it much at all in my case but no i agree i know what you're talking about and sometimes i think maybe even the person taking the cup doesn't realize that they're displaying some kind of giving off some kind of something about their personality is there anywhere like that on the higher end in kyoto i know the answer is going to be yes and probably quite difficult to choose do you know the answer is yes um but to be honest i think in my list of recommendations for our listeners i haven't included any of that because i do think that's something you are more likely to find by yourself in kyoto whereas some of the the shops that i want to introduce are places that i think are just really great experiences that you might not find or go into without someone pointing them out to you because there is a lot of kaiseki meals there's a lot of high-end like ichiman like a hundred dollar bill places in kyoto where you get the great sake selection um maybe not as amazing as the one there because it was literally one sake from every prefecture but we do have equivalents i'm actually going to take you to two places that i think are awesome in kyoto which are a little bit different than what we already talked about they are sake shop turned sake bars so one of them is asano sake shop which literally has a retail space in the front and then in the back it opens up almost double the space with the tasting standing bar and they also kind of have everything and the great part is they also collaborate with brewers so every two weeks a different brewery comes in brings their lineup so you can get these tasting flights that you can either put together yourself if you know what you're doing you know you look at the menu you put in the fridge this is the three sake I want for like a thousand five hundred yen or you they have these sets of three sakes where you get one brewery and you get three different sake from the same brewery and especially because they have these brewers come in on a bi-weekly rotation you almost always find something interesting that normally wouldn't make it to Kyoto because it would not actually leave the prefecture or their brewery local shops so I really really love it very approachable they have a little bit of food and people in there like to talk because it's a little bit more of that like I'm trying stuff and I'm this tastes like this and this tastes like this so the people next to you even if they don't speak English they will try and talk to you about what you're drinking or why do you like sake so I think it's a really nice place to go whether you're a beginner or a enthusiast because there's a little bit of something for everyone then you make friends and they take you to the next spot that's exactly that's the whole game is you find these places right it's like because in tokyo because it's like kakuuchi style right yes yeah no kakuuchi are like the the best way to make to make quick friends um and get those kind of connections because the people going they want to chat they're passionate about whatever type of kakuuchi you're and I feel like they want to share and show off their knowledge.

45:24And then the second place is actually almost a level up from Asano. It's Sake Cube, which is really run by young guys. The owner is quite young. He has a sake shop, but in the middle he has a big table, like a communal table with lots of snack stuff on it. So you can have canned food, you have crisps, you have senbei or crackers and all kinds of sake treats or treats that go well with their sake. And you can basically just look at their fridges and almost order everything by the glass that he also sells. And because you're in this communal space, again, it's really designed for you to talk to the people beside you.

46:04Something unique that I haven't seen in many other places. You can also bring your outside food in and eat it there. So if you were going to go to a conbini or to like a daily counter and you get something, you can actually bring it in, then order a glass or two glass of sake and enjoy your food or share your food with the other customers so it's a really really fun place a little bit weird when you go in first because it's like how does this work but once you know this is the system it's it's so much fun oh this looks great this reminds me a lot of a place in tokyo called cow liquors which is sake natural wine and craft beer oh and it's the same kind of style there's a table in the middle and then it's fridges and stacks of bottles basically.

46:52I think it can be a bit weird, right? When you don't know what to expect because you think it's a shop. But once you know the system, it's actually really amazing. And you always start talking to people because that's the design that it's built for. And speaking about places where you can sort of go and just sort of bring your own food and have almost like a party and just like sort of, you know, have access to all this sake, but kind of effectively serve yourself. And I think this was one of the first places that actually started this pre-pandemic, quite a long time ago now. And I worked for this company for a while.

47:26Kurand is still running one or two of their all-you-can-taste sake bars in Tokyo. I think probably the easiest one to go to is in Akihabara. you pay i think it's about 3 000 yen for all you can taste for about three or four hours or however long until the shop closes if you go in the evening it's so much i think so don't quote me on that because they have different service levels but i think the most expensive one is pretty much until the shop you know closes and you've got fridges um now the thing that's quite unique about koran is that they the majority of their sake and i think we talked about this in a previous episode is sake that they've actually made together with the sake brewery so the labels are actually a unique design and the concept is a unique concept you're actually tasting sake that you won't find anywhere else in japan it's it's made unique especially for koran and like their lineup is 80 that essentially which is how they kind of stay above the competition with other similar uh setups but you can bring your own food you have to bring your own food because they don't have a kitchen so you can't really they have like those little you know like the cans that you can buy and sort of the you know that i mean they kind of look a bit like pet food but they're actually quite tasty um so with like maybe yakitori in there or something and they have a microwave so you can warm stuff up if you if you bring stuff in i think they do have a delivery menu or they used to have a delivery menu so you can kind of order stuff in as well but they are very still very popular when i went in there it was full of overseas visitors and probably more overseas visitors than locals in all honesty because i think because their lineup is so avant-garde and you can't really find anything that maybe you want to to taste if you're so that's something to know if you if you would prefer to be drinking sake that is more kind of mainstream and the sake that you can find in the shops etc that maybe isn't such a good idea but if you just after a general experience with sake and trying different things and broadening your horizons i think that's a great place to go any any last recommendations cindy yeah yeah any any last recommendations yes yes i have more i think we could probably do quite a bit all right we could make it we can on this but um we could make this a show yeah yeah this is just yeah it continued yeah this is the this is the pilot no i think there's actually two things in Kyoto that I think are worth mentioning.

50:27One is actually the brewery-operated izakayas and restaurants. Because again, we have Fushimi with 18 something breweries down there. Some of them do have restaurants. One of them is Torise, which is part of Yamamoto Honke. So they have their head store or head restaurant down in Fushimi, but they also have one in Pontocho, the area as earlier saying it's nice to go have drinks so it's a nice place to start you know and they have their own sake if you go to fushimi they have like sake from the tank like namasake that is literally coming from next door where it's brewed which is quite special then there is tama no hikari who just opened a place called to my sake kasu which is kind of a weird name right for a restaurant but that's what it's called so we have to go with that um which is kind of directed more towards a little bit of a younger more fashionable audience but they do a lot of dishes also with the leftovers of the sake production so lots of sake leaves and then we have and again a very creative name it's called Kyoto Station Front Tavern Churakudai it is by Sasaki Shuzo which is located downtown in Kyoto so you can also go and visit the breweries but the restaurant again has all their sake and some extras and then great little izakaya dishes in a relaxed environment that still has that traditional vibe of a traditional building because we're in Kyoto but you don't have to feel like you have to be quiet or unnecessarily behave yourself like you can go in there with a bigger group of people and also have a bit of fun so I think these are worth maybe visiting if you're in town and they're certainly a little bit more special because they're run by the breweries themselves um and last but not least and this is one of my favorites and I kept it for last because of that it's Masuya and there is two of them there There's Masuya Saketen and there's Masuya Sake Hall.

52:43The sake hall is more of the restaurant that's a little bit more sit down, full menu. Great if you have five or six or even eight people because they have the space for it. And then you have Masuya Saketen, which is their isakaya, which is my favorite of the two of them because it has that isakaya vibe. But it's very young. People are very friendly. they have great selection of sake they have a menu but then you can actually go and look in the fridge and choose what you want from the fridge because the fridge is a little bit different than what they have printed which I think is always a great time because it means that they're updating or rotating their their brands according to what's coming out or whether it's seasonal or whether it's a brand that they've just discovered so I think that's probably one of the must visits If you do one izakaya in Kyoto, I would say go to Masuya Saketen.

53:42And they take reservations, which is also great. So you can actually make this happen without the fear of being rejected at the door. Nice. Definitely want to check that place out. Definitely. I think maybe I'll just throw one last one in there as well. Since we talked about age, Saki, and I didn't really offer any alternative for Tokyo, i think i will because i'm actually a massive fan of age sake and i think age sake may may possibly be the potential future of sake anyway so one of the best places to explore matured slash age sake in tokyo is without a doubt the jukutokan bar bar i think is probably the best way to refer to it it's a tiny counter probably seats about four or five people max so you absolutely have to book in advance and don't be surprised if it's already full up but uh i i am actually the official taster for jukutukan or one of the official tasters for jukutukan i occasionally do events there as well i mean it's run by this lovely chap who is uh i would refer to him as an age sake maestro he knows everything there is to know about age sake ueno-san nobuhiro ueno-san i don't think we've had him on the show up until before but you can definitely find things about him online and it's not just the collection of age sake that they have which incidentally a lot of them are actually age sake that they've aged themselves like uh yoramu in kyoto but it's also the service so they don't just pour you a glass of aged sake they have many different ways of serving the aged sake and the food menu as well is incredible Ueno-san is actually a more than a competent chef and that would be putting it lightly I think he obviously studied food as well and although his english isn't really really good um you can still communicate with him to some extent even if you don't understand english they're very welcoming the owner of the bar is actually 100 fluent in english of course there's no guarantee he's going to be there when you visit but if you are going to visit uh look me up i do offer a a special kind of english support service um for a nominal fee so So, you know, if you want to go and you have a bit of extra, you can, you know, a bit extra budget wise and you absolutely would prefer to be able to speak to the master in English.

56:31I can help you out there, but it's well worth a visit. You'll find it on Google Maps. The name of the company that runs the bar is Sake Matured. And one last shout out for me. for some of my research I actually did reference a fantastic website which I think is probably one of the longest running websites providing a kind of the equivalent of a kind of a restaurant directory for Japan it's called bento japan or the tokyo food page it's been around a long long long time it's run by a chap called uh rob satellite and the uh we'll put the url in the show notes but i thoroughly recommend checking this out because there is a quite an extensive list of izakayas that he recommends on there some i'd not heard of that i'm definitely going to try and check out yeah so i think everybody who's listening um if you book your holiday to japan making it a couple of extra days longer so you can actually fit in a couple of these recommendations um it's a tough one right to come here and there's just so much everywhere there's so much everywhere and in the spirit of so much everywhere my last recommendation is in hagi have either of you been to hagi you know where hagi is no i don't think so it's yamaguchi It's the old castle town for the Choshu domain.

58:09But there's a restaurant in Hagi called Hagi Keishu Korean Restaurant. And Hagi Keishu Korean Restaurant is for, in their own words, people who love Nihonshu and unpasteurized makkori. And their selection of Nihonshu is so good and so surprising. Because Hagi is not a big town. It is far removed from most population centers. You only kind of go if you're really wanting to be in Hagi. And it's a Korean restaurant. But they just really love their Nihonshu. And it's great. So Hagi Keishu Korean restaurant. Or Nihonshu. And unpasteurized Makkori. If you want the unpasteurized Makkori. But I just had Nihonshu the whole evening.

58:59And it was delightful. So truly. What else would you have, Frank? Yeah. Well said. And if you're going to be in Yamaguchi, I could recommend a great book with a little directory at the back for navigating sake and Yamaguchi. And that is, of course, the Yamaguchi Sake book by Jim Ryan, a good friend of ours and a fantastic translator and writer. And it's an amazing little directory at the back of the book. that tells you all the places you can go and check out sake and yamaguchi prefecture so on that note go go out and explore japan and explore all the strange little sake shops and restaurants that exist in all the little towns not just the big ones so i think that'll do it for this show thank you so much for listening to this episode of sake on air i have been frank walter and i've been joined by Christopher Hughes.

1:00:03Yeah, a lot of fun. I've really enjoyed this. We have to do more of this series. This has to become a series. This was so much fun. And Cindy Bessig. Yes, I second everything that Chris just said. When I look at my map, I have so many saved places. It's almost impossible to pick a couple of them, but I think we did well. I think so. So yeah, please take a moment to review and rate us on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you maybe enjoy the show on. And feel free to send your questions and comments to questions at sakeonair.com or message us over on Instagram, Facebook, or Substack. You can also find us on YouTube as well.

1:00:46We'll be back with more Sake on Air very soon. Until next time, kanpai! Kanpai! Sake on Air is made possible with the generous support of the Japan Sake and Shochu Makers Association and is broadcast from the Japan Sake and Shochu Information Center in downtown Tokyo. It is produced by Export Japan. And our team is Shuso Imara, Justin Potts, Arlene Lyons, Cindy Bissig, Chris Hughes, Chris Pellegrini, John Gottner, Marie Nagata, Miho Ota, Rebecca Wilson-Wye, Sebastian Luan, and me, Frank Walter. Until next time, kanpai!