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Sake On Air - Episode Summary: Talking to Students of JSS Sake and Shochu Academy 2026
Podcast Overview Sake On Air is a bi-weekly podcast dedicated to exploring the stories of sake. This episode features insights into the Japan Sake and Shochu Academy, a prestigious training program for professionals in the beverage industry.
Episode Details
- Title: Talking to Students of JSS Sake and Shochu Academy 2026
- Description: Chris and Miho interview students of the Japan Sake and Shochu Makers Association's Academy. The Academy, likened to "Hogwarts for sake," teaches students about Japan's national beverages, aiming to train future ambassadors of sake and shochu.
Key Points
Introduction to the Academy
- Event Overview: The Academy is a week-long course held annually in February, now in its 10th year, attracting over 50 applicants, but only 14 spots available.
- Location: Most of the training occurs at the old headquarters of the National Research Institute of Brewing in Oji, Tokyo, concluding with visits to sake and shochu breweries.
Interviews with Students Chris Hughes, one of the hosts, interviews multiple students on their experiences, motivations, and aspirations regarding sake.
Student Highlights
- Maciej from Poland:
- Background in sake education; involved with the Sake Sommelier Association (SSA).
- Discussed the slow but growing sake market in Poland, emphasizing the importance of education to promote sake.
- Highlighted his goal of expanding knowledge and understanding of sake among restaurant owners and sommeliers.
- Frock from the Netherlands:
- Founder of Yoigo Kochi Sake Importers, specializing in Jun Mai sake.
- Shared insights on growing sake awareness in Europe and the importance of versatile pairings with local cuisine.
- Described the balancing of theory and practical experiences during the Academy, which enhanced his appreciation for sake brewing.
- Shu from Singapore:
- Working with a restaurant while shadowing various roles to learn about sake.
- Expressed how the Academy exceeded expectations, particularly in tasting and understanding the complexities of sake.
- Noted the importance of food pairing, highlighting how sake can complement diverse cuisines beyond Japanese food.
- Ana from Indonesia:
- Beverage director in Bali, exploring the introduction of sake into the market.
- Compared the acceptance of sake in Indonesia with that in Portugal, noting that the Indonesian market is still developing.
- Stressed the health benefits of sake and the need to educate consumers about its qualities.
Course Structure and Learning Outcomes
- The course included intensive tastings, lectures from experts, and hands-on experiences, allowing students to develop a structured understanding of sake.
- Discussions emphasized the role of sake in wellness, low alcohol content, and its versatility as a food pairing beverage.
Conclusion
- Chris concludes the episode by inviting feedback from listeners and encouraging them to engage with the show on various platforms.
- The overarching message is the importance of education and collaboration in expanding the global appreciation of sake and shochu.
Key Takeaways
- The JSS Sake and Shochu Academy is pivotal in training the next generation of sake ambassadors.
- Education and networking are crucial for promoting sake in various global markets.
- Sake's versatility as a beverage makes it suitable for a wide range of culinary pairings, challenging traditional perceptions.
Contact and Engagement
- Listeners are encouraged to reach out with questions or comments at questions@sakeonair.com or through social media channels.
Closing Remarks The episode concludes with a toast, "Kanpai!" signaling the communal spirit of sake enjoyment and the shared journey of learning among students and educators alike.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOOverview of the Sake and Shochu Academy
0:45 to 2:14
Discussion about the structure and significance of the JSS Sake and Shochu Academy.
“We're already in March and the cherry blossoms are getting ready to bloom.”
Interviews on the Bus: Meeting Maciej
2:14 to 4:52
Interview with Maciej from Poland about his journey into sake and his experiences in the Academy.
“So I'm here with, let me get your name right, it's Maciej.”
Maciej's Insights on the Polish Sake Market
4:52 to 8:13
Maciej shares his observations on the growth of the sake market in Poland and the challenges it faces.
“So I started making movies about sake in general, in Polish for Polish audiences.”
Networking and Knowledge from the Academy
8:13 to 12:34
Maciej discusses the importance of networking and expectations from the Academy course.
“Your YouTube videos had an effect after all.”
Interview with Frock from the Netherlands
12:34 to 14:09
Frock shares his journey in the sake industry and the founding of his import business.
“We started our business in 2008, so almost 20 years already.”
Journey of a Sake Company in Europe
14:09 to 16:44
Learn about the growth of a sake company specializing in Jun Maesake across Europe.
“First doing some market research with our fellow students from university and also trying to find some customers, doing tastings and stuff like that, trying to find out what their reactions were.”
Experiencing the Dutch Market for Sake
16:44 to 19:33
Explore the challenges and gradual acceptance of sake in the Dutch market.
“Also, we partnership to America and some states of Canada.”
Reflections on the Sake Course
19:33 to 21:00
Hear insights on how a sake course expands knowledge and appreciation of sake brewing.
“And is this your first time in Japan or have you been to Japan before?”
Shu's Story and Experience with Sake
21:00 to 23:08
Listen to Shu's journey from Singapore to the world of sake.
“Yeah, let's enjoy the rest of the course.”
In-depth Learning and Expert Guidance
23:08 to 26:18
Discover the advanced techniques and expert knowledge shared in the sake course.
“All of us are actually GSS graduates now.”
Show all 21 chapters
Food Pairing Innovations with Sake
26:18 to 28:00
Gain insights into creative food pairings and the flexibility of sake in cuisine.
“How many other experts who are diving into sake could you find over there?”
Exploring Sake and Food Pairing
28:00 to 29:00
Learn about the flexibility and creativity involved in sake pairings.
“so that you don't just pigeonhole like sake in a particular, like, with a particular cuisine.”
Insights from Sake Enthusiasts
29:00 to 30:20
Hear students share their key takeaways from the sake course.
“do you think, in your work in Singapore?”
The Role of an Interpreter in Sake Education
30:20 to 31:30
Understand the importance of effective communication in sake learning.
“They're the experts at the end of the day.”
The Journey of Ana Christina Abrukamash
31:30 to 32:50
Discover Ana's background and her journey in the sake industry.
“And I look forward to sharing some sake with you later on.”
Comparing Sake Markets: Portugal and Indonesia
32:50 to 34:20
Explore the differences in sake acceptance between Portugal and Indonesia.
“So had you done any work with sake in Portugal previously or was it...”
Pairing Sake with Indonesian Cuisine
34:20 to 36:30
Learn how to pair sake with traditional Indonesian dishes like sambal.
“So we actually learned in one of the lectures, right, that it was a Portuguese trader or something that sort of said that they saw Japanese people drinking kind of like an Iraq, right?”
Health Benefits of Sake
36:30 to 37:30
Discuss the potential health benefits of sake compared to other spirits.
“So at the end of the day, I know maybe we don't use this word for the sake, but some of them, the dryness is so good, it's like very mineral.”
Expectations from the Sake Course
37:30 to 39:20
Hear about the motivations and experiences of students in the sake course.
“but how you feel drinking it and pairing it with food.”
The Importance of Sake Education
39:20 to 40:06
Understand the significance of educating others about sake and its pairings.
“But then at the beginning, I was panicking.”
Final Thoughts and Advice on Sake Learning
40:06 to 41:20
Receive closing insights and advice on pursuing sake knowledge and experience.
“I think they should invest on this because, again, it's a trend.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:02Chris:The people of sake actually brought me into sake. Back in 1988 this place was actually in Ginza on the main drag. At first it was kind of soy sauce, it was miso. To the point where it actually changed my life. New Year's Day 1989. Not just sake as a beverage but all the culture and history. Hello and welcome to another episode of Sake On Air, the world's first podcast dedicated to expanding the dialogue around Japan's alcoholic beverages. Sake, shochu and of course, awamori. I'm one of your regular hosts, Chris Hughes. Hope everyone is well. 2026 is well and truly underway and boy, doesn't time fly.
0:45Chris:We're already in March and the cherry blossoms are getting ready to bloom. One of my main duties around this time of year is to assist with providing English support for the JSS's annual Sake and Shochu Academy, a week-long course taught by some of the industry's top experts. Set up to train future ambassadors of the beverages in Japan, the Academy is now in its 10th year. It's an extremely popular course, with this year seeing over 50 entries, and with such a high standard of entries, it must have been a challenge to whittle that down to the 14 spaces available. This year's lineup appeared to be mainly focused on people working in importers or suppliers, but there was a real mix in nationalities.
1:32Chris:Most of the course is held in the old HQ of the National Research and Institute of Brewing, in the old Red Brick Brewing building which is in Oji here in Tokyo. But the last day consists of mainly brewery visits, a sake-focused one and a shochu-focused one. So you join me on the bus on our way to the first brewery and I took the opportunity to find a bit more out about some of this year's students and get some feedback about the course. Pass Chris, I'll hand it over to you. so i'm on the bus uh on my way uh to we're on our way to one of uh two sake breweries that we're visiting as part of the japan sake and shochu academy and um so we're on our way to kogane shuzo in kanagawa prefecture so i'm just going to ask a few of the students about well their story what they're doing in their respective countries to promote sake to expand the world of sake and also perhaps get some of their thoughts about the course and how they're going to use the knowledge and experience they've gained during this course going forward.
2:50Chris:So I'm here with, let me get your name right, it's Maciej. Maciej. Maciej. Yes. From the wonderful Poland. Yes. Yeah, that's correct. Land of sausages and many more things. And so Maciej, first of all, just tell us a bit about yourself. What's your story with sake? How did you get into sake? Okay, I'm Maciej and yes, as you said, I'm from Poland. I'm doing education there, sake education, working with SSA. Started last year with the courses, but sake I knew from before. I graduated Japanese studies, I don't know, 15 years ago or so. so I had many opportunities to try to drink, to meet the drink and then in Poland for some time I was involved in craft beer business I managed two bars and got even more interested in fermentation, fermentation culture as it was and yeah from there it was only natural to expand to sake so i tried to you know get to know more about it um during covet because uh also to tour guide work so i bring people over from poland to Japan but during Covid that just disappeared suddenly so I had quite a lot of free time I decided I'm gonna study more about sake I took the SSI course for International Kiki Sakashi yeah the SSI is the Sake Service Institute and the other one SSA is the Sake Sommelier Association That's correct.
4:47Chris:And I started YouTubing for some time. As I said, I had plenty of time. So I started making movies about sake in general, in Polish for Polish audiences. It was very interesting and I developed my knowledge quite a bit during that time. But then COVID ended and I came back to my job as a tour leader, but still loved SACI and wanted to do something more with it. So I started working with SSA, took their course and became an educator myself. and that's basically it. And then you wanted to expand your knowledge and actually maybe get some hands-on experience with sake. So that's why you joined the Japan Sake & Shochu Academy.
5:44Chris:Is this the first time you tried to join the Academy or had you tried before? Yes, the first time I tried to join and I was lucky to get. This year 50 people applied I think they said. And so tell me more about the sake market in Poland. It's growing. Yeah, that's a good thing. But very slowly. Something changed last year and we imported more. But it was very slow even during the COVID times. During the time I was making all those YouTube videos. The response from the market, from the people was not so enthusiastic. What do you think has changed them? Plenty of things. Education, what me, myself, and other people are doing, importers and JSS as well.
6:39Chris:They opened a JSS Poland branch. So, yeah, more and more people are involved. And they spread the knowledge. You have to know something to present SACA. It's not so easy in Poland. It is still very strange, even in sushi places, which are very popular. And we have a lot of those for a long time. The main drink to go drink, let's say, is wine, white wine. People associate Japanese sushi with wine. I was going to ask you, like, well, what do people in Poland mainly drink? My image is, I think a lot of people have an image that you drink a lot of vodka, being close to the, you know, restaurant and everything.
7:28Chris:That was the case, especially during the communist time. Yeah. Yeah, we were in the vodka region, let's say. But fortunately, that changed. And from early 2000s, the beer, like beer is the most popular drink we drink at the most. Yeah. wine and vodka somewhere next. And sake is very, very small. As I said, the market was really tiny. But last year we had 300 % growth to import, so impressive. It's incredible. Yeah. Good work. Your YouTube videos had an effect after all. Maybe. the starting point was very low so 300 % may sound impressive, it is impressive but if you look at the numbers not too big in Europe but there's hope that it will grow even bigger What do you think needs to happen in order for Poland to become the next big sake drinking country?
8:43Chris:Basically it's already happening. The education, that's the base for everything. You have to have people that know their stuff and know how to sell sake, how to present it, how to pair it with the food they offer in the restaurants. So those are my clients nowadays, people involved in hospitality in different ways restaurant owners sommeliers and managers people that actually do the groundwork of selling sake yeah so if we have a lot of them then everything will develop naturally I think that was and you're nurturing right yes I'm part of your role yeah yeah and that's why I'm here I came here to update my knowledge, to structurize it a little bit more.
9:37Chris:And, yeah, I think I was quite successful at it. That course was really good. Yeah, so what do you think, what was your expectation going in? And do you feel that the course has satisfied that expectation? And kind of, yeah, just in general, what do you feel you got out of the course? And anything that surprised you? Any kind of... Yeah, actually I came here mainly to network, let's say, to meet all those people involved in the business in different parts of the world and in Japan as well. It's very important. And yeah, apart from that, I wanted to update my knowledge, but I got even more because the course was very intense.
10:20Chris:we also tried so many variations and that brought structure to what I already knew expanded my knowledge and yeah and I feel that you know the knowledge I had and the new knowledge has more structure to it now and that's that's great I wasn't expecting that you know so much will change in my head about it did so yeah it's been a really really kind of uh very productive might not be the right word oh yes yes yes only one week but yeah very intense and uh yes full of knowledge and experience so yeah well what would you say to someone who's kind of uh you know kind of thinking a little bit on the fence about whether they want to uh try and apply for this course or not i don't think there's much more available that could bring so much knowledge in such a short period of time great and also the social part of it and getting to know you getting to know the people likewise yeah that's that's great i couldn't end this interview without asking you what your go-to uh polish dish and sake is i'll go to polish this in second sorry to put you on the spot no no no no like we have pierogi like dumplings with meat inside and they go really well with kimotos like the solid full bodied slightly sour kimoto that would be a great idea fantastic awesome there you go thank you very much Maciej and do you have an Instagram or a social media or somewhere where people can follow you what are your YouTube is that still going you still continuing it's there the clips are still there but I'm not doing anything with it Sakavizia was the name of it Sakavizia it's Polish for Sakavizion Sakavizion yeah yeah yeah it's there Sakavizion well if you've got anything we can promote we'll put on the show notes of course thanks very much for letting me interview you and I'll let you do a bit more networking thank you thank you very much okay well i'm gonna move on and i'm gonna interview uh frock from uh frock frock i've got to get the pronunciation right that's a cool it's a cool name frock um so i'm gonna pass the mic to frock and so and uh it's from the from the netherlands yes yes netherlands yes and um yes just again just like start by just telling us a little bit about your story um how you got into sake and what you're doing in the netherlands yeah sure okay so my
13:06Miho:My name is Flauki Betten, I'm the owner and founder of Yoigo Kochi Sake Importers. We started our business in 2008, so almost 20 years already. I studied Japanese in Leiden University, lived in Japan for a while and after coming back to Europe, I was first involved in different businesses, mainly the cheese business actually. But after a while, the reason why we started the company, I started it with a university friend of mine, was that basically we were very frustrated that there was hardly any good sake around. And sake, we learned to appreciate sake while living in Japan. So we started up our own business.
13:58Miho:and we started basically very small with two pallets in front which were delivered in front of my house. First doing some market research with our fellow students from university and also trying to find some customers, doing tastings and stuff like that, trying to find out what their reactions were. But, well, we grew and grew, slowly grew bigger. And now we're basically represented with our assortment in over 25 countries. But we're the first company in Europe specializing only on Jun Maesake. So we were the very first to do that.
14:53Chris:Why did you decide Jun Maesake specifically?
14:56Miho:Because it's a personal thing as well. And we really enjoy the flavors and the many types also within Jumai sake, which are for us much more rich and have a wider variety than the other sake.
15:22Chris:So it wasn't necessarily to pair with Dutch food, Dutch cuisine. Oh, yeah.
15:28Miho:That was also one of our goals. Because we found that sake is such a versatile drink. And in Europe, there was the conception that you should only drink it with Japanese food. And we really tried to target, to take it out of that Japanese... Mold. Yeah. and also have it paired with local dishes. And so now in our assortment, we kind of categorize it in a European way. So basically from aperitif to dessert wine and from fruity, full-bodied styles to aged sake. We also do import shochu and some Japanese natural wines as well.
16:19Chris:Yeah.
16:19Miho:But our main focus is sake.
16:24Chris:And how is the Dutch market at the moment? Is everyone drinking sake?
16:29Miho:No, not yet, but it's slowly grown. It was quite difficult in the first years to sell the sake, but slowly it's grown, and we set up a network of distributors in most countries of Europe. Also, we partnership to America and some states of Canada. And we slowly grew and the effect of combining all this power together of also of our distributors with their networks made that we, in the beginning we first mainly delivered to restaurants. but then also sommeliers or restaurant owners of other restaurants went out there to have dinner and got in touch with our sake as well. So it's like this side effect, this snowball effect that started working.
17:27Miho:So we serve within Europe also. It's a bit high class or upper market thing. and also a lot of restaurants who work with more local products, organic products, but high-quality ingredients.
17:44Chris:Interesting.
17:44Miho:Yeah, and who can appreciate the quality of the sake as well.
17:51Chris:So what was your kind of motivation for taking this course? What was your expectation? Has the course satisfied that expectation? What are your general thoughts about the course? What have you learned? What have you discovered?
18:03Miho:Oh, I learned so many things. Actually, I think it was very well balanced between theory, a lot of practical stuff, and loads of tastings which made the theory even more clear. So very well structured and it made my appreciation for the sake brewing and also shochu making producers even much higher. Yeah, I realized more and more that it's really an art and very impressive.
18:45Chris:What one thing do you think you're going to take back to the Netherlands and the leverage in your work there?
18:51Miho:Quite many things also. I think to do even more specific tastings and pointing out certain aspects within sake or shochu, make comparisons, because that really worked well for myself as well. I think this course basically sets a new benchmark for me for sake trainings. Yeah, it's rather high level. and also to have all these informations within relatively a short period, four days. Just four days, yeah, just four days.
19:29Chris:We do cram it in, it's quite intense, of course.
19:31Miho:Yeah, yeah.
19:33Chris:And is this your first time in Japan or have you been to Japan before? No, I've been to Japan many, many times. Many times before.
19:39Miho:I used to live, when I was a student, I lived in Tokyo for a while. Right, right.
19:43Chris:So have you kind of visited anywhere, you know, different or anywhere you've always wanted to go? I know you don't have much time. because the course is very intense.
19:52Miho:I went to see some breweries we already work with. Currently, we work with around 40 breweries. Wow, quite portfolio. And I visited Nidaunke this time, for example. Nice. Yeah, I had a great time. It was good to catch up with them. Wonderful, wonderful.
20:10Chris:So finally, what would you kind of say to anyone who's on the fence and wondering about whether this course is for them or not? Well, definitely join.
20:20Miho:I wish I would have done it the first edition. This year is the 10th edition. I really wish I would have done this course 10 years ago because it gives you such a good overview and perspective on the market. and it's also great for networking. I meet up with a lot of very nice, interesting people. So, yeah, definitely go for it.
20:49Chris:Fantastic. Thank you so much for letting me interview you, Frank. And I wish you all the best of luck with your endeavors in the Netherlands. I shall be supporting you. Yeah, let's keep in touch. Yeah, let's enjoy the rest of the course. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. okay and then i'm here with um shu yi yep yep uh pronouncing your name right enough how do you like how do you like to go by it's technically shu yi shu yi because the chinese name but i go by shu shu okay cool so i'm here with shu and okay so shu tell us your story where you're from uh where you're sort of working with sake uh what got you into sake etc all right so i'm from Singapore.
21:33Miho:I'm working with a restaurant called Sueraku, based there. And we have retail store Kruara as well. Shout out. So I only really started drinking sake about three to four years back. And that's when I got my sommelier degree as well. The main interest is, of course, that a product with only four different ingredients is able to give such a whole depth and wide range of flavors especially umami and from then move on to things like it's one of the few drinks or only drink that can be that's drunk warm across a whole range of temperatures even up to like 50 60 degrees yeah and and that really got me asked got me a captivated in sake cool and so um what are you doing at the moment in all right in singapore so i'm helping out as a consultant with the restaurant but what that actually means is basically everything.
22:29Miho:I'm providing support with my colleagues in terms of running support logistics for events, photography, filming, marketing, social media posts, service. Wow, you really are doing everything. Yeah, but all one step below everyone else, so shadowing what the team is doing to be able to learn a lot more from them.
22:50Chris:Yeah, and what was your motivation for taking this course? What was your expectation? Has the course satisfied that expectation? What are your new discoveries, revelations on this course? Give us a little bit of your thoughts about the course. Coming in, the team has all been through this course as well.
Read the full transcript
23:13Miho:All of us are actually GSS graduates now. I was given a rough heads up as to what I do expect. and it's definitely met my expectations or even exceeded it really really enjoyed the whole host of tastings it really brought confidence as to once you keep hammering in like what caramel is supposed to be like and then you get the confidence as to writing out more depth in terms of how you're tasting it or even the range of sake available in terms of having identical chemical composition bar one factor and that really highlights the different range of options available, what exactly is different when you tweak one factor or even the pairing with Marathon.
24:01Chris:Right, because in ordinary sake, it's a mix of lots of different components and it's very difficult to pick up on one.
24:08Miho:Yeah, Marathon has over 200 different labels and imagine you having to pick all that all the time. But now we're looking at specifically...
24:16Chris:Yeah, so in the course, some of the samples are actually maybe it's a sake which has one particular component or maybe it's just water with that particular component added to it or something. On the first day we have it in a chemical analysis and that really breaks it down really clearly. We did actually have the chemicals in the little samples and we could smell like sotolon and ethyl cap weight and isomyl acetate, the esters. And of course the awareness when samples were off
24:47Miho:or the aroma wasn't as strong. I think that's missing sometimes when you aren't able to gauge it.
24:54Chris:But for us, yeah. It's difficult to kind of do, isn't it, in a restaurant environment unless you have those tools. And you need to be able to know
25:05Miho:what the base sample is supposed to taste like. That's true, yeah. If you don't have that awareness, you will know that it's not supposed to be that way.
25:12Chris:In other words, you need an expert to guide you. And we got them plenty here. We had, I mean, the great thing about this course is that the lecturers are actual professors and doctors working at the various Japanese sake bodies, National Institute, Research Institute, Brewing, NRIB, the tax office, the Japan Sake Brewing Association, etc. I mean, even beyond the actual curriculum, the Q &A section was really amazing. Yeah, and there is quite a lot of time to ask questions, isn't there? They give you plenty of time to ask any questions that you want to. And a lot of people say that's the best aspect of this course, that you're actually given that time to ask these questions to the experts.
25:57Miho:I agree. A lot of the curriculum is more of a refresher in terms of the theory. Most of us have done similar courses, but the actual answering these experts as to what's new, what's upcoming, what's the actual new ones, outlier, things like that, it's an opportunity that's almost impossible, especially back in Singapore. How many other experts who are diving into sake
26:23Chris:could you find over there? Yeah. Okay, I'm going to put you on the spot. What was your favorite part of the course? So far, bearing in mind that we still have the breweries, brewery visits to go today. Oh, food pairing, definitely. The food pairing. Yeah. With Maria Chiba, the gastronomist who runs a bar in Tokyo called Eureka. Yes. Yeah, a restaurant in Tokyo, sorry, called Eureka. Have you ever been to the restaurant before? No, no, unfortunately no.
26:49Miho:It's supposed to be slotted in, but I chose Sake Shin instead,
26:53Chris:which is another choice. Like you say, you don't have a lot of time really to get out and sort of explore, and you're based in a part of Tokyo, which is a little bit detached from the center of Tokyo. But I take it you'll definitely try and go to Eureka. Oh, definitely, yeah. So what was it about the food pairing lesson that made it your favorite? So food pairing is, of course, to me, it's one of the more complicated aspects.
27:19Miho:You're dealing with so many other factors. Beyond sake, you're talking about food. And food pairing itself brings about a whole range of opportunities. Because for us, sake can be paired with local dishes. And that means you shouldn't be just pairing it with sashimi. You shouldn't just pair it with sushi. or like, you know, Japanese cuisine, like French, Italian or Singaporean cuisine. You know, why not have a good chashi rice with a, you know, a dry sake or something to balance it out. It's just the options and range is so wide and so it opens up everything.
27:55Chris:So it gives you that flexibility. I think that's what she's trying to do in that course. She's trying to kind of, so that you don't just pigeonhole like sake in a particular, like, with a particular cuisine. Yeah. Right, you're always pairing with the same cuisine so that you're being flexible. And basically saying, like, the book isn't written about sake and food pairing. I mean, she has written books, but the book isn't written, you know. And there's a lot of flexibility and freedom and a room for experimentation. It was definitely intentional. Like, look at these sauces.
28:25Miho:You have suya sauce, yogurt, lemon. Yeah. And olive oil. Yeah. You know, suya sauce is obviously classically Japanese, But the extra virgin olive oil, on the other hand, it's so different. And like yogurt and lemon, they all bring different dimensions to the table. And the other sample of pork belly is star anise, Thai chili sauce, orange juice, orange fruit, fruit sauce.
28:50Chris:Yeah, it was like a fruit sauce, wasn't it? So what aspect of the course, what piece of knowledge or thing will you take away and kind of immediately leverage, do you think, in your work in Singapore?
29:02Miho:I mean, the whole expressing, tasting, and confidence in writing it, I think that's core. Every sum should be able to do it to a degree, to any degree. The pairing, like I said, it's definitely going to be used in service in terms of figuring out how best or even crazier pairings that we can try. The whole range of how each brewery does it, the depth of knowledge in terms of not just sake but also shochu now is something they'll be trying so the thing is we're actually running a shochu event tomorrow
29:39Chris:oh cool, I know you have to fly back tonight right, pretty much after we finish the dinner at the second brewery you're gonna, at Izumi Bashi you're gonna go and you have to quickly get on a plane and fly back to Singapore, yeah and so I'll be going in fresh with all this well not that fresh
29:57Miho:you'll be drinking tonight I'm sure yeah so when when you're in an environment five straight days with fellow enthusiasts just
30:07Chris:focusing on drinking and learning it is yeah they're right that's what makes this a great experience i mean i'm i'm here as primarily an interpreter but this time it was kind of cool i actually stayed with you for the entire week and uh joined the other classes which i wasn't interpreting for because we split the interpreting duties between myself and uh miho otta one of the um team members of sake on air and uh i'd never so i'd never done the class with uh yeast and the starter and koji before and uh i mean i learned so much you know and i know quite a lot but i learned so much it really is incredible and just appreciate you being here having a having
30:49Miho:an interpreter who's also somebody that makes such a difference because you know the terms you know
30:54Chris:definitions everything else it's the context yeah we we want to it's more about uh communication than interpreting really um i'm i'm not saying i'm the best interpreter in the world but having that experience that knowledge enables sort of us as in as as communicators to just kind of fill in the gaps a little bit and ensure that what they're trying to communicate is communicate it because there's no doubt about it. They're the experts at the end of the day. And there's a lot of knowledge that we need to make sure that we, we get them to share. Yeah. Yeah. But they don't hold back. They're very generous with their knowledge.
31:28Chris:It's actually quite amazing the amount of like information that's being shared. Well, thank you so much, Shu. It's been great talking to you. It's great to be here. And I look forward to sharing some sake with you later on. Of course. Yeah. Thank you. Who should we interview next? Okay. And I'm now here with Anna. Anna, Christina, is that your full name?
31:49Miho:Ana Cristina Abrukamash.
31:51Chris:Abrukamash. And you're actually, whereabouts are you based and whereabouts are you working with Sake at the moment?
31:58Miho:I'm based now in Indonesia, Bali, and we have a lot of venues, but just two. It's Bukaji, so the name is kind of Japanese.
32:08Chris:Yeah.
32:09Miho:So we are using Sake and Sochio.
32:12Chris:Okay. And how did you get into Sake? What was your Sake story?
32:16Miho:Because a long time ago I used to work at Quinta do Lago. It's a big resort and there we had the Umami restaurant. And we started with sake. My ex-colleague Miguel, he was very focused on the wine, familiar wine. And then I said, okay, let's try the sake because it's all about the concept. And we decided to make a menu for the spirits part. The wine with sake and the spirits bringing everything. just from Portugal or from Japan. So I start to have some knowledge about spirits in Japan and also sake.
32:51Chris:You're originally from Portugal? Portugal, yeah. So had you done any work with sake in Portugal previously or was it...
33:00Miho:Yes, at Keterlago we used to work with sake. Yeah, this is Portugal Algarve.
33:04Chris:Maybe I'll ask you about both markets then. Maybe a comparison. How does the Indonesian sake market compare with the Portuguese sake market? Can you answer that question?
33:12Miho:I think, no, I'm sure. Portuguese are more open-minded about sake. Also because Japanese goes like, turns global the food. So the drinks are also the same. Everyone wants to try it and understand. At least once, no? Indonesia is quite different. They drink a lot of alcohol for a Muslim country, no? It's strange, but they go more for spirits. They are more on the, maybe the soju there will be more. Also more familiar for them because they have the Arak.
33:55Chris:Ah, of course, yes, yes.
33:57Miho:And the Arak, at the end of the day, is very similar. They love, and if you know how to explain to them how is made it and which is the main source, they are totally crazy about rice, you know. So they also produce a lot of rice, three types of different rice. So it's a kind of how to explain, how to give them the knowledge to start to drink it.
34:21Chris:Right.
34:22Miho:What a great answer.
34:23Chris:Yeah, you're right. So we actually learned in one of the lectures, right, that it was a Portuguese trader or something that sort of said that they saw Japanese people drinking kind of like an Iraq, right? That's kind of like the introduction to shochu, isn't it? What kind of shochu is really popular in Indonesia? Is there any one particular type, style?
34:40Miho:No. I think what we get nowadays first is the most commercial, so Ichiko. Okay. So it's the first brand I saw was that brand. And for now, slowly, it's growing, the market, because at the end of the day, Indonesia is growing a lot. The tourists is going crazy, beautiful islands, of course, and it makes sense. but it's slowly coming to Bali, to Indonesia, this industry. Before, just big companies, but bringing just spirits, Diageo, Pernod Ricard, everyone just looking for that. A lot of spirits from Japan, that is already a trend. Aku, made from rice, Nika, these kind of brands, yes, everyone like it.
35:31Miho:but sake we need to introduce slowly and we need to go for it because it's easy to match with Indonesian food sambal sambal? yeah
35:41Chris:what would you pair with sambal? what type of sake would you pair with sambal? anything in particular?
35:45Miho:depends on the sambal
35:46Chris:ah ok
35:49Miho:yeah this is a good question
35:50Chris:what is kind of like a typical sambal? how would you describe the flavour profile of it?
35:53Miho:my favourite is sambal matah that is made with the I don't remember the name, the purple onions, the small shallots.
36:03Chris:Yeah, shallots. Oh, shallots. Okay, I love shallots.
36:05Miho:Yeah, lemongrass, a little bit of coconut oil. It's very fresh, but at the same time you have the chili, it's spicy. So this is very interesting.
36:15Chris:I'm getting hungry now. That was a stupid question to ask at this time of day. And for me, I will go for it.
36:21Miho:This is very personal tasting. Then when I need to think how to sell to the customer, I will think. but I'm more on the dry side, you know? Dryer sake, okay.
36:31Chris:It doesn't clash with the...
36:33Miho:With nothing. So at the end of the day, I know maybe we don't use this word for the sake, but some of them, the dryness is so good, it's like very mineral. You can use it.
36:43Chris:We can, yeah, yeah, definitely minerally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So and for your...
36:49Miho:Because sometimes you give wine tasting to a customer, wine pairing, and at the end of the day we have a lot of the tannins or the acidity your stomach start to hurt a little bit during these days we try so many sakes and we are okay you know what i mean so it means when you go for a long experience with food for example sake is a amazing option because you don't feel this going into you you know so it means the quality yes it's good and for
37:21Chris:Well, we know sake is always harked on it. It's always promoted as being a beverage, which is kind of better for you, not in the scientific sense maybe, but how you feel drinking it and pairing it with food. So having taken the course, well, first of all, what was your expectation going into the course? What was your motivation for taking the course? And what do you feel you've got out of the course? What was your kind of revelations, discoveries?
37:48Miho:I always try to motivate me every year. So I need to have something to study. I don't want to stop to learn. Because even my job is beverage director. I meet and the industry is growing every day. Every day there's a new thing. Someone wakes up and they said, I'm going to make a spirit with, I don't know, grass. You know, you need to study every day. So my expectation was quite big because we are now in a moment that the generation, the youngest generation, they don't like alcohol. They simply don't drink. They go for the healthy way. This is a global trend, right? Yeah. And when we see how sake is made and this particular characteristic that sake has, the koji, at the end of the day, this is healthy.
38:34Miho:You know what I mean? So if you know how to sell it, if you know how to put this to the customer, it's a nice way. slow ABV compared to the biggest, the main spirits and for me it makes totally sense to learn more about sake, that's why I have big expectation it was hard for me I'm always studying and teaching spirits so for me it was like good, I get out of my comfort zone so I'm very happy
39:05Chris:Going into sake you mean? Yes Learning about sake was the hardest part of this course for you then I guess? would you say? Yeah.
39:12Miho:About the technical names, you know, because some words, it's easy if you know Japanese, you can connect directly. But then at the beginning, I was panicking. But at the end, it was a very, very, very nice experience. What kind of things started to come together.
39:28Chris:Yeah.
39:29Miho:Yeah. And the class with Marie, the Eureka, for me, makes totally sense because this is what I'm looking for, experience for the customer and how to sell it. because you can have a lot of knowledge of everything, but if you don't know how to sell it...
39:45Chris:And let's face it, getting people to pair sake with food, having sake with food is the part of the experience that I think sells it for a lot of people. If they've been on the fence up until now, I think that's the thing that brings them over to this world. Realizing that sake is so flexible and that you can create all these really interesting pairings. and so that would that be your favorite part of the course you would say yes yeah i think
40:12Miho:and the coaching making we still have the sakebree visits it might change
40:16Chris:well finally you know um yeah is there anything that you would say to someone who's maybe not sure whether this course is for them any kind of advice you would give them
40:29Miho:yes I think more for my side more for the operational side not just vendors or big companies who's coming here our colleagues has their own business but also the the people who is every day on the floor like sommeliers or restaurant manager or people who give the face to the customer. I think they should invest on this because, again, it's a trend. The low EBV and sake, in my opinion, it doesn't change nothing. It's better to pay because of the sensation in our body than the wine. It's an amazing experience studying in Japan. Oh, come on.
41:12Chris:Hey, let's end on that. That's fantastic. It's a very, very great line to end on. Thank you so much, Anna, for letting me interview. and maybe drink some sake later on and talk more. Thank you very much. Thank you. Well, that will do it for this episode of Sake On Air. I hope you enjoyed those little mini interviews with some of the students of this year's JSS Sake and Shochu Academy. We'll be back with more Sake On Air very soon. In the meantime, please take a moment to review and rate us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you enjoy the show. And feel free to send your questions and comments to questions at sakeonair.com or reach out to us on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter at atmarksakeonair.
42:07Chris:We also have content available on YouTube and Substack. Until then, kanpai. Sake on Air is made possible with the generous support of the Japan Sake and Shochu Makers Association and is broadcast from the Japan Sake and Shochu Information Center in downtown Tokyo. It is produced by Export Japan. And our team is Shuso Imada, Justin Potts, Arlene Lyons, Cindy Bissig, Chris Hughes, Chris Pellegrini, John Gottner, Marie Nagata, Miho Ota, Rebecca Wilson-Y, Sebastian LeMuan, and me, Frank Walter. Until next time, Kanpai!
From the publisher
Every February, the Japan Sake and Shochu Makers Association holds the Sake and Shochu Academy, a week-long course that teaches students everything they need to know about Japan’s national beverages. Think Hogwarts for sake. The teachers are not wizards in a literal sense, but are top representatives from various official sake industry and research bodies, the equivalent of wizards in the sake world perhaps. The students are an elite group of professionals from different corners of the alcoholic beverage industry.
For the last four years, Chris and Miho have been working as interpreters at the academy. Set up to train future ambassadors of the beverages in Japan, the academy is now in its 10th year. It’s an extremely popular course, with this year seeing over 50 entries, and with such a high standard of entries it must have been a challenge to whittle that down to the 14 spaces available. This year’s lineup appeared to be mainly focused on people working in importers or suppliers, but there was a real mix of nationalities. Most of the course is held in the old HQ of the National Research and Institute of Brewing, the old red brick brewing building in Oji, Tokyo. But the last day consists mainly of brewery visits, a sake-focused one and a shochu-focused one.
Join Chris on the bus on his way to the first brewery where he took the opportunity to find a bit more out about some of this year’s students and get some feedback about the course.
As always, if you have questions or comments, please do share them with us at questions@sakeonair.com or send us a message on our Instagram, Facebook, or Substack!
We’ll be back very soon with plenty more Sake On Air.
Until then, kampai!Sake On Air is made possible with the generous support of the Japan Sake & Shochu Makers Association and is broadcast from the Japan Sake & Shochu Information Center in Tokyo. Sake on Air was created by Potts K Productions and is produced by Export Japan. Our theme, “Younger Today Than Tomorrow,” was composed byforSomethingNew for Sake On Air.