Pochettino to Man United? Carrick’s Downfall & Gary’s Glazer Verdict | Stick to Football EP 157

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2:25Where's the stuff that you said on NBC? Yeah. Where's Phil based over there now? What's he doing? In Florida. So he's not doing nothing like that?

2:34Gary Neville: No coaching? No, he's trying to get another job, but at the moment Harvey's in Florida, so he's gone and lived in Florida. So they're staying there because he's playing football there. Yeah. Yeah. Is James Fitton playing at the moment? Yeah, I played last night. What did he last night? In your final cup? Yeah, so funny, it was on at 7 o 'clock. You can get it on the Sky. And he told me we were playing 45, you know, like before the game, it's all arranged. I just switched it off at half time. He said, no, we played the game. So I missed the second half. They won 2-1. I think they were already qualified anyway.

3:05I don't like that trophy. No. It's a weird one. It's like Aston Villa, the 21s. United under 20 Everton, Liverpools. But it's one of them, isn't it? It's probably like the Caravan Cup for Premier League. When you get to see someone at Wembley, you think... Yeah. We won it. You won that in League Two?

3:20Gary Neville: We won it in Covid, yeah, we won League Two. We won it, the whole thing. Portsmouth at Wembley. Oh, wow. You know, we were playing in the final against Portsmouth. It was going to be March, and it was when Covid shut lockdown came in February, and they'd sold 32 ,000 tickets for the final. We were going to make quite a lot of money out of it because we sold like five or six. So we were looking at about 40 ,000. It was a decent crowd at Wembley. It splits halfway, the money. And we ended up playing it the year after in front of no people. Just obviously the directors were in there or the owners were in there.

3:50Gary Neville: So we were in there and literally nobody in the ground. Mad. And we had to sit two seats apart from each other. Mad. And we bit him to be fair. It was Richard Welling. He was mad. We battered him. We absolutely battered him. It was mad. Well, I'll tell you what. You were a knife mate for the... What a fucking shambles, Man United are. Do you hear something? Every time it gets to this point when a manager's sacked, irrespective of whether it's someone that actually is a club legend and actually you have a bit more feeling for it. You just think, what a mess, don't you? What a mess. You just can't believe it's like...

4:23I still, when you're a kid growing up, when people say, I always can't get married on Tottenham. And Man United got relegated in the 70s. You think, how could that happen? But you're watching it now, aren't you? He's keeping everyone. Who's keeping everyone? We've been waiting for three or four minutes. I know, but... Jeez. What time is it? I think that question, that ponder thing, did you get... Yeah, I just said everyone. all the people away with.

4:46Gary Neville: I said, for a slam dunk line, Roy Keane is the best pundit. For depth analysis, I said, you. But it's not about, yeah, I know what you mean. It's just about different personalities, isn't it? You know what I mean? People you're walking with, when you were a bit, watching when you were younger. Obviously, I'm going up in Ireland. But I said, the real, then I said, the best one, really. What's the guy I've talked about? Johnny Giles. Who did you have a goat last week? He was lying last week to Gabby Agbon, the whore. on you replied to him on his Instagram I was pissing my side laughing I was in America I can't even remember and you put I'm always worried about someone who's more passionate about the club when they're basically sort of a pundit than they were when they played oh dead right I love brilliant show I see these people on social media I watched you play good show you didn't even run I love that good show when people are a bit more passionate or ex-players who say I love the club but when you played you didn't seem to love them that much when you played it's really key when you're playing for the club you love them afterwards yeah he chilled out oh good show jamie hey people go i love that club so passionate down tools all the time i know or ask for transfers every two minutes wow should have came in earlier oh we think of when we were a bit young alan hansen i suppose and all these guys around here because i suppose you had to listen to him yeah no but alan hansen and mark lawrence and sat on match of the day yeah they did have massive presences Yeah, yeah.

6:13I suppose so, yeah.

6:14Gary Neville: And even like, I always remember on ITV, they'd have like Bobby Robson, Terry Venables, they'd have like people that you just thought, even Brian Moore as a commentator, it felt more... Yeah, I know, but there's so much more of it now, you see, that's in it. Yeah, yeah. Back in the day, there was... It was a lot less, so you sort of... Yeah. You remember, you knew exactly what show they were on, what they were doing. Satan Greavesy? I mentioned them. I thought they were brilliant. Oh, Satan Greavesy were amazing. Because they were a bit like-hearted, weren't they? Yeah. Some of the clips now you see on social media.

6:45Gary Neville: But just saying Greavesy now, they'd have a podcast. They would have a podcast, wouldn't they? They just would. That's where they would move to. They'd be on the overlap. They'd be on the overlap. Be sat here with Ian St John and Jimmy Greaves. Imagine, that'd be great, that, though, wouldn't it? Imagine. I imagine Jimmy Greaves was fascinating as a sort of storyteller and character. Oh, they look funny, yeah. You think of the TV. So you're going to New York to do games. I know. It's mad. But you know the thing you say about obviously St. Greaves, you think like two pundits. The thing I love about Ian St John, he was the presenter.

7:16He wasn't like he was a pundit. But he was like Scottish boys, you know, you're all so cute. Why were you late this morning?

7:23Ian Wright: I wasn't late this morning. You were. You're okay, bro. You look like I'm feeling something. They know that. I'm feeling something for my guy. How you doing, Jimbo?

7:31Gary Neville: Good mate, you alright?

7:31Ian Wright: Yeah, great pal.

7:32Gary Neville: We're talking about the sort of punditry back in the day and we're talking about St. and Greaves. Oh, Brian Clough did some, obviously.

7:38Ian Wright: Brian Clough was... When I watched Brian Clough, it was just brilliant.

7:41Gary Neville: The Brian Clough, Don Reeve thing.

7:42Ian Wright: Yeah, did you see when he said good lad? When he said something to me with the leads, when he was talking about leads.

7:47Gary Neville: The Brian Clough, Jon Motson clip on YouTube is unbelievable. Wow, is that the one where he really tells him off? Where he basically tells him off effectively and says... Too much analysis. Too much analysis. Too much talking. Too much talking. That's what he said. Too much talking. Yeah. Not enough. Not enough football. It's brilliant.

8:07Ian Wright: Yeah. I remember when I was a kid, if, like, on St. Greavesy or Grandstand or something like that, if Brian Clough was talking, you'd have to watch him. Was it nice to see Phil?

8:18Gary Neville: It was good. He's coming over at Christmas, so I think we should get him on here. I will try and get him on here, actually. He said you haven't asked him. I texted him. No, I have asked him to come on.

8:27Ian Wright: I don't want Phil on. Oh! I don't want Sir Alf on. I used to call him Sir Alf. I love Phil, he's a good laugh. He's a good laugh, you know Phil. I didn't realise, once you get to know him, he's quite a funny guy. He's a fun guy to be with. I can't believe you might have asked him where he lived.

8:49Gary Neville: The other reason I asked him is because Isabella's in Portland still at university, Harvey's in Florida, and I know they're moving between the two because they're trying to sell a house. Where are you actually living? Are you actually in Florida or are you in Portland still? He actually, he's in Florida, but he still goes back to Portland quite a bit. And is he doing more TV now over there? He's doing TV. He is trying to get back into management. He actually has had a couple of offers. I think it's just a bit, yeah, not quite landed in terms of what he wants. But, yeah, he's... But he's happy enough, yeah.

9:20Gary Neville: Yeah, he loves coaching. Does he like it? He loves it, yeah. He is a good coach, Phil. I loved having him. I've never seen him coach. Obviously, you've seen him coach. You're the only one who has seen him coach. But do you know what? He was one of the best managers that I had. He just got it. When you're getting a bit older and stuff, he would just know how to manage you and give you time off. I loved having him as a manager. Yeah. So, yeah.

9:52Gary Neville: Dorgoo left-back, Masrawi right-back, Lenny Yoro and Aidan Heaven. That is probably the worst back four in the Premier League. Michael Carrick got the job on the back of nothing. He had about two years at Middlesbrough. Was doing a bit of punditcy and then got the Man United job. They're giving me. I reckon the owners are probably going, the Carrick thing kind of worked out. He got us in the Champions League. It's a short time. Last year it did. If I was Mauricio Pochettino now, he's got to insist that he gets two defenders in January.

10:17Ian Wright: Yeah, but you're asking for things that they might not be able to give him. They have to give it to him or else he shouldn't take the job. Like when Klopp first went to Liverpool, I bet there was a, don't worry, things are changing now. We feel it. Obviously at United they're looking to carry on. There's nothing changing here.

10:29Gary Neville: At what point did they just carry on doing this in this loop? How many times do you get to go at this? Well, a loop just keeps going, doesn't it? Exactly.

10:44Gary Neville: So as we're sat here now... Waiting. The saga continues. Well, look, I mean, this is a little bit of a running jump, but basically all things are pointing towards Michael Carrick will lose his job tomorrow. Hang on, but we said that a few weeks ago. He will lose his job tomorrow, I'm pretty certain. That's 100 % sure. Well, I think they're finalising the deal with Pochettino as we speak. That's something that's, I think, pretty much well reported right now and I think they're going to go ahead with it. So, I mean, look, when a manager loses his job, the first thing we always do on this show is how sad it is.

11:18Gary Neville: It's not good when a manager loses his job because, you know, ultimately, I mean, I've been there. Roy, you've been there. You've obviously been part of a coaching team and it's not easy. No, but Carrot got the job on the back of someone else who was in their job. That's the... Yeah. Unfortunately, that's the game. But look, do we have... Do we feel any sympathy right now? I mean, Michael's obviously had it tough in this last month or so. He's likely to lose his job later on today or... Do you think he'd be relieved?

11:41Ian Wright: I think so, yeah.

11:42Gary Neville: Just tomorrow you go, turn around.

11:44Ian Wright: I don't think he's... You know, he got to a level where it's just with the owners and everything that's going on, he's just had... He's got no chance. He's got no chance of who he's dealing with. We can't be honest, right? Yeah, but you say that. He has to be held accountable as well. Yeah, of course he does. But at the same time... He can't keep giving up goals like that. I thought, yes, Roy, I understand. But the pressure he's under at a club of that size, trying to do what he's doing with the players he's got, you know? And now the players have all... They seem like they've checked out. He would have known that when he took the job, right?

12:15Ian Wright: Yeah, but everybody, Roy, with that, everybody would think that I'm going to be the one that can maybe change it. Probably Pochettino, if he comes... Of course, otherwise he wouldn't take the job. You think, Michael, it was just out of his depth in the end. How do you make players defend, though? Some of the stuff I've seen against Villa, they've got the man and it's like, stay with your man, and then the ball hits a crossbar, you've left your man, and the score, and I'm like, how is a manager? Jane, Jane, as a defender, he actually attacked that like a forward. It's like, why would you move it over there?

12:48Ian Wright: the headache it was crazy I couldn't believe it

12:51Gary Neville: it was like look on Sunday the goalkeepers to be fair thrown to him Dallot has made a challenge that you just can't even believe and then Joros headed it basically into his own net effectively I mean the four goals on Sunday but they gave away just as bad yeah they did but they're laughable the four goals that were given away by United on Sunday I mean look the back four that he finished with on Sunday was Dorgou left back Masraoui right back Lenny Joros and Aiden Heaven that is that is probably the worst back four in the Premier League I don't know a back four that is worse than that in the Premier League right now if I watch it that is I can't believe Manchester United have ended up with that back four so Michael to be fair I've got a bit of sympathy in the sense that he obviously has had injuries to show but that was predicted and he should have signed a left back and they should have signed a left back Maguire De Ligt Martinez can get injured we know they can he's been left woefully short in defence That's self-inflicted, isn't it?

13:48On the recruitment in the summer where everyone is saying that United need reinforcements. Whether it be full-backs or whatever. So we're just... So that's on them. That's on United for not having a squad... Well, United shouldn't be second from bottom. No. I know what's sounded like... They should have a stronger squad. Yeah, defend. If Man United... I think we'd all probably agree, Man United this season, we'd all said fighting for top Champions League positions. So that's fourth or fifth. That's what we said. Yeah. So if they were 7th or 8th or 9th now, he wouldn't be getting sacked. They're second bottom.

14:20So it's like, I know what you're saying about the squad and the players and you can argue, should he have brought a backup left-back? I know it's going to change too much. But Man United can't be second bottom. So all the teams that they're losing to, or they're not getting results against, they're still better than them. So when you play Bournemouth, he leaves Bruno on the bench. Yeah, he's the best player. But Man United's teams should still beat Bournemouth. Do you know what I mean? You should still beat Hull. so he's not losing his job because oh this one hasn't done that he got the second bottom

14:48Gary Neville: why has this happened so we obviously know that last season he had more points I think than anybody else in that last part of the season we know that obviously they didn't have Europe we know that it was a bounce we know that there was a bit of a relief from the players because they didn't like the system of Amorim how has it got so bad where Manchester United are literally bottom of the league nearly how has that got so bad I'd love to know what happened in the summer I'd love to know what went on pre-season what's your What do you think has happened? I think they all came back all lackadaisy because he eventually got the job.

15:16When he came in last year, remember, he got the job because they were panicking they weren't going to get into Champions League. That's where they got the job, thinking they didn't think the previous manager was going to get into the Champions League. It's key for finances, etc. So they're doing the same now, but he's just on the other side of it. When he came in last year, I guarantee you that Bruno was in top form, the keeper was making saves, and they got momentum. But we've all said here many times, going, that's fine going in winning football matches. But I think come the summer, he was then managing the club.

15:42He was now manager of Man Utd. It's completely different. I think the players' perception of him must have changed. Whereas a few months before, he's just come in and got some staff.

15:50Ian Wright: Did you think they were just because, oh, he's just going to take it until and then the new manager? So they just played well for him then. There might have been a bit of that, yeah. And again, it just focuses on winning a few league games and again, no other kind of other challenges. But then the summer, whatever, pre-season, when did he come back? How did he train? Why isn't he getting these players? Because that's part of management. You've got to manage upwards. So you might say, everyone would say, they need a left back. Well, make sure you get a left back in. Make sure you have a backup.

16:14We've said it all the time. We've been praising Arsenal and City the last few years. They've got strength and depth. Man United were always going to struggle. Then Bruno comes back, not in great form. Maybe he's got issues with his contract. Who knows? The goalkeeper, all of a sudden, wow. And again, go back to the goalkeeper. Last year when he came in, there was no pressure on him. He was like, hey, he's doing all right. The goalkeeper, he's made some good. Then all of a sudden, he goes, no, you're the main man. You're the top goalkeeper. makes a big mistake at the World Cup and he comes back and maybe he's all of a sudden going yeah, you're number one goalkeeper.

16:43Oh, last year I was kind of under that radar. Expectations, pressure. Same with the manager. You start the season the way they did and we talk the key for any... We go back to that momentum. They had a bad start. The goals they're giving away. Even last week going to the Villa you're talking about starting quick. Roll your sleeves up. You're 2-0 on after four minutes.

17:00Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney+. When you watch them playing, and no-one likes this getting said about the team, this is always the trick of a new manager, other players don't look fit, Pochettino might say, and the previous manager, nobody likes that. But you can't help it when you watch them play, they don't look at the level physically to other Premier League teams. When you're watching teams play, the pace of teams play, even like Brighton, the one we're all talking about at the moment, when you're watching Man United, it feels like a level down physically, when you're watching the pace of the game.

17:33It feels slow when you're watching them. And when you think of any manager who comes into a team, and I'm sure Pochettino will say this, and maybe rightly so, always talk about pre-season. You all mentioned that, how important a pre-season is of, like, getting your ideas, but physically. And they just look miles off. So whatever happened pre-season, whether, again, you've got the best in class in terms of a manager or a fitness coach or a sports science, I don't know. But when you watch them play, they're nowhere near it physically.

18:02Ian Wright: The pre-season wasn't a good one. Have you heard something? Yeah, I know you can't believe everything you hear. The way they're playing. You hear from decent people who compare them to what they were training. And you're thinking again, I don't like here when I hear stuff when there's no edge to anything they do. And we talk about playing. We spoke at the weekend at Villa game. You know, people talk about when you're playing for one of the big clubs, what you do in possession. It's what you do out of possession. That's the key. United will always be a goal. Even the other day, they scored four goals.

18:31So going forward, you're thinking Villalba-Port. It's what you do out of possession that will determine where you're going to go as a football club. People think, people always say, oh, it's about entertainment. Of course you've got entertainment in possession, of course. That's why people love Man United and they love all the great players. But don't forget about what happens when you're out of possession. That is the key. All the great teams. At the moment, a brilliant example obviously is Arsenal. Arsenal are out of possession. They're hunting packs. I hear stuff when Arsenal went on pre-season, I don't want to hear it, they were in Ireland, you hear about Man United were in Ireland, people were like chalk and cheese to Arsenal turned to Man United.

19:07And these are all, when you've got quality, better players on top of that. So these results United are having, or these performances, that's just going to continue. You always say United have to be a running team. And I think it looks worse when a United team aren't fit or aren't at the races, or they've got players who can't, because the pitch is so big. you'd almost look at the team and you think the pitch is too big for them and that's what I feel every time I see Man Utd play at Old Trafford

19:32Ian Wright: if it's Pochettino what's Pochettino going to do? I mean look you've gone through every manager ex-player interim everything successful not successful new guy foreign guy what's Pochettino?

19:46Gary Neville: One thing we do know about him is he does run his players he does put physical fitness really at the top of the agenda he's always had fit teams whether they've won or whether they've not won He's always had very fit teams. There was a name of a Tuesday, I think, Harry Kane. I remember we used to train at Tottenham's training ground when I was with England, and they used to have that Tuesday sort of... I'm calling it Terror Tuesday, but it wasn't called Terror Tuesday. LAUGHTER I'm just denying something. It was something like that. His run was famous at that time in terms of what he does with every team.

20:16He does run them. Lots of stories trippy and all these, as you say, going, if you're playing for him, you've got to be able to run. Fit, yeah.

20:23Gary Neville: I know that Harry Kane said that his training sessions were really tough. There was runs after training on Tuesdays and Wednesdays that were really hard that used to almost floor them. He'd bring them down then before the game, but they were always fit, his teams, to be fair. I mean, that's one thing I think he will deal with straight away. He obviously got a lot of experience now. He knows, I think, he doesn't know how to coach a team. There's something about Manchester United in this last month or two that I felt was just very basic when you're watching them. That's a big problem, that when the other teams look like they know what they're doing more than United.

20:51Gary Neville: but just coming back to Michael Carrick because I just want to finish really on him I think a few of us around this table probably most maybe not all of us but a few of us didn't want Michael to get the job for a couple of reasons we thought that Manchester United should go and get the best in class part of my reasoning was I didn't want this moment I didn't want this last three four weeks of seeing him effectively terrorised on that touchline and walking around the pitch at the end of the game it's awful but the fans have been alright with him they've been great with him and they always will be right but do you know something I think Roy, you said it on the last podcast, there's nothing worse than people feeling sorry for you and feeling that sort of empathy and that sort of like, it's a bit of that, there's an element of, they'll always support him.

21:31Gary Neville: It's a little bit like Ollie towards the end. It's painful. It is quite painful when you've played with someone and you see them and you knew this was, I never thought it would happen like this, by the way. None of us foresaw that this would happen so quickly. But I do feel that we saw this coming, that this moment was going to come at some point. How does this impact him now in terms of the next six months of his life, just generally? How will he feel? The feeling he has for the club, the love he has for the club, we all know that, but that means it hurts even more, doesn't it? And we've all had to come back from these moments of challenge.

22:01Gary Neville: How does he feel now? I think he will bounce back, though, I do. I think it's been such a tough time for him, but as you say, the fans, I think he's conducted himself in the right way. I think the way the club's treated him, especially these last few weeks, I think they've hung him out of dry at times. In what way, Joe? I just think in terms of, like, this just seems to have been going on if the meeting happens in Monaco and then he gets the news. I just feel like they're just kind of using him as a bit of a scapegoat. The problem's run so much deeper at Man United. You look at, I don't want to compare to other clubs, but, like, say, Liverpool's so good at recruiting.

22:39City have always had a structure and an identity. Why every time Man United get a new manager, it's got to be this full rebuild? Like, what is Man United's identity structure? If you look at them, what would you say it is? Michael Carrick's been under Marino, he's been under Oli, he's worked under previous managers, he's not got the job himself, so he knows the gig. So I won't be losing sleep tonight, you know what I mean? There's other managers losing their jobs, that's the gig they're in. But we've said it previously, what does Michael Carrick do at Man United? If he's worked under Marino, he's worked under Oli, I've never heard this vibe going, he's amazing on the training pitch, he does the sessions, then he gets to the manager's job and then there's this lap, this stuff around the pitch.

23:21So I'm just wondering what's he bringing to the party? I don't know. So when a manager loses his job, you're going... He knew all that before he got involved, Gilles. I think he's a lucky boy. I understand what you're saying. Sometimes managers can be treated, but I think he's come and he's done well for the club, got them in the Champions League, they weren't expecting that. And for me, obviously some of us disagree, but I could understand the club giving them the job and trying to do the same again and have two years in the Champions League, even if Man United finish fifth, then get the manager you're talking about.

23:51But used to both being coaches, I was thinking about this because we're at a stage now where we're always looking at United, the hierarchy, it's a mess, this is that. And then we'll point at Liverpool, FSG or we'll point at Tottenham with Pochettino, Unai Emery or Aston Villa. But I think a great football manager changes it. FSG, no one was raving about FSG and how they were doing things before Jürgen Klopp came in. We were asked in Villa before, now we think this club... Everyone says alignment. I think he's going for a scan. Honestly, I'm sick of hearing this word, alignment. That's managing upwards, Jamie.

24:29The top managers have managed upwards. And then everyone thinks this club is amazing because this guy's come in. No-one was saying that about Villa before Emery came in. I said Klopp before he... with FSG. And now Klopp's left and I never put a bit like, are we running it right? Is this right? Is that right? A great manager fixes a lot.

24:48Gary Neville: Manchester United have had great managers. Who haven't done a good job. So on that basis, Louis van Gaal, who's one of the most experienced managers in the top level you could ever wish for, and Jose Mourinho, they have been great managers. Let's be clear about that. They weren't able to swim against this tide. What's the cause of that? They won a trophy. Weirdly finishing the league. This is a team's second bottom of the league. You can't compare. Look, Michael obviously needs to go. The reason I agree with Gillian Parr is that after Bournemouth, up to Bournemouth, I think, to be fair, I don't think he could have any complaints.

25:24Gary Neville: After Bournemouth, the delay for the next, whatever it was being, two weeks to losing his job, that was unnecessary pain that he's been caused. And then the idea that now they're not even sacking him today whilst they're speaking to Pochettino, and yet they're over in Monaco having a sort of... Why are they not in Manchester? Why are they not in Manchester dealing with it? I've sacked managers, rightly and wrongly, by the way. But one thing you always think about is the welfare of the guy that you're sacking. Because to be fair, you don't want to do it. No owner wants to sack a manager. But what are they thinking after the Bournemouth game?

25:55They're still mighty top. We'll give them another the next... Obviously, the international break seemed to be a big thing for clubs. So maybe the club will go, let's give them another two or three games. But Roy, after that lap around the pitch... I know we all agree. That was... From their point of view, they're probably thinking, just give them another... Just give them another two-day game.

26:12Gary Neville: But if you believe... Did anybody around this table believe it was going to change after Bournemouth? No. No. We all thought that, to be fair, this moment would come when Michael would lose his job. You've got to do it quickly then at that point. You have to do it quickly. That's where they've been stuck for two weeks. They've literally not made a decision. You've got to make decisions then. So what, bringing an interim?

26:31Ian Wright: Who's going to be the interim now?

26:32Gary Neville: No, my point is, though, you've got... Michael, for the last two weeks, that has been painful to watch. But it's not about Michael. It's about Man United. So for those people in charge, if they're thinking it's better for Man United that Michael Carrick is still in charge, he's still got some sort of figure. Because they can't make a decision. But they're probably still looking for a manager. But my point being is, Michael Carrick got the job on the back of nothing. He got the job on the back of basically played for Man United and he's done really well. So this idea, oh, we've got to feel sorry for Michael Carrick.

26:59What's happened to him the last 18 months? He will still look back at this and we'll say it's painful for them right now. But what he did to get him to the Champions League, The big games he won against Arsenal, Liverpool, all these games, he did brilliantly. He's had a couple of games the last couple of weeks, the Roma game and coming back 4-4. We're the other tables, obviously, but, you know, that thing of, you know, the fans chanting his name as he's going off. But I'm not sat here feeling sorry for Michael Carrick. He's not a manager who's been managing for 10 years, working all over the world to get this job at Man United.

27:28He had about two years at Middlesbrough, was doing a bit of pundits here and then got the Man United job. They giving me. So this thing to have a go at them because they kept him in the row. I feel sorry for Michael Carrick. He was managing one of the biggest clubs in the world on the back of basically not really doing a lot. And he's done, you know what? He got them in the Champions League, he's done really well. But he was never at the calibre of managers in the... The managers in the Premier League are the best in the world. You know, and he's just not quite at that level, OK. But the fact he's managed for the three games...

27:56We all said that he shouldn't get the job.

27:57Gary Neville: We were absolutely alive. We said he shouldn't get the job.

28:00Ian Wright: I said that I'd give him a chance.

28:02Gary Neville: You said give him a chance.

28:02Ian Wright: Generally, I think...

28:03Gary Neville: No-one knows he was at the level of... It's no big distraction that they've given another extra week, couple of weeks, Gaz, is it? That's not... Look, to me, it'll be forgotten about in two days. When Mauricio Pochettino's appointed, early next week maybe, everyone will forget about it. Michael will ship into that. But to be fair, we've been there. Michael will get... The idea of today, even... We're sat here today recording this programme, knowing that Michael Carrick is going to be sacked tomorrow, knowing that they're speaking to Mauricio Pochettino, knowing that they've spoken to Nagelsmann, and they should be doing that, by the way.

28:34Gary Neville: I'm not saying they shouldn't be doing that. But just, I think the fact they're in Monaco now and that they can't sack him today knowing that it's happening, to me, just feels a little bit clumsy. It feels a little bit classless. I would say that, you know, Manchester United should have their board meeting in Manchester today. They should deal with it. Isn't that where Sir Jim lives? He lives there, isn't he? Yeah, but what I'm saying to you is, I think if you live in Monaco, and you can't leave a guy hanging for 24, 48 hours just because you live in Monaco. That can't happen. Yeah, but maybe he can't come in here.

29:00Gary Neville: Manchester and Manchester. Maybe you can't... I don't know. I know, I know. So don't worry, it'll be all right. It'll be all right for the few days. Don't worry. Exactly. I think you're getting distracted by it. You're too close. It's not too close. It's just something that I would... It reflects where the club is the last few years. The owner can't even... They're not even coming over to... But you're on about the previous world-class managers, whatever, Michael Carrick. They treated them badly at the end. Yeah, yeah. They sacked them, David Moyes. They all deserve better.

29:28Ian Wright: After the FA Cup. Who...? Van Gaal got the top manager. Why do people want to take this job, though? Going off all the record... Someone will get it right eventually. That's the thing, James. Pochettino might be saying, I think I can do it. Because when you look at the players and who he's going to try and hopefully get... Because they will give him the money to buy the players. Whether or not the players want to join Man United in this time, it's totally different. Is he the manager that's got the power to pull that player in, what he's going to need? Because I know that they can buy that player, but does he want to go to United at the moment?

30:03Ian Wright: He's got to deal with all that. Yes, you're saying, right, he's got to get them fit, which is fine. And once you see, if you get Man United fit, they will be competing at a better level. But at the moment, we have to see what's going to happen. Because I think that Pochettino, you know, how many times did they... So many occasions where he could have gone there, they've not taken him. I think they took Oli before him, then they took Eric Ten Hag, and then they renewed Eric Ten Hag when he could have gone again. and then they sacked Eric Ten Hag. He's been messed about a bit as well. Let's come on to Mitchell Pochettino.

30:31Gary Neville: But the thing I'm talking about in these last 24, 48 hours is symptomatic of just generally the decision-making or lack of decision-making for the last 13 years. Manchester United have had 11 managers in 13 years. Wow. They've spent£1.6 billion on players. If you just said 13 years ago, we're going to spend£1.6 billion and be in the relegation zone, that'd be very difficult to do. You'd need a magician to do that. That'd be difficult to do, wouldn't it? You'd need a magician. Honestly, so you've had 11 managers. You've had three or four managers in the last three years now. You've had£1.6 billion spent on players.

31:09Gary Neville: The club's£1.2 billion in debt. They're not making decisions that look great, just generally in that period. They've kept Michael Carrick on when they shouldn't have kept Michael Carrick on. They've kept Eric Ten Hag when they shouldn't have kept Eric Ten Hag on. They've appointed Ruben Amrim when they shouldn't have appointed Ruben Amrim. they've constantly made these decisions over 13 years there comes a point where you've got to say I'll give you a small example I for three years did not get promoted with Salford and sacked three managers, two managers in a season and I was removed from my role of looking after the football department having looked after it for six years previously and having four promotions and winning an EFL trophy no no don't you end up after three years you think hang on a minute I'm not getting this right anymore.

31:53Gary Neville: You have a conversation and other people take over the football department because ultimately you think to yourself, I'm not delivering success here now and I should be delivering success. They've been there for 13 years since Sir Alex Ferguson giving sustained systematic failure on and off the pitch. Right? The stadium's a mess. It leaks every time it rains. Right? They've got to find£2 billion for a stadium. They're£1.2 billion in debt. They've spent£1.6 billion on players. They've had 11 managers at the bottom of the league. They finished 15th last season.

32:20Ian Wright: I heard people saying things go like you know man you don't need success on the pitch they're still going to

32:25Gary Neville: that's that's that's not at the core of what you're doing i don't need success on the pitch avram glazer last week comes out in a conference and says that the commercial success of manchester united does not depend upon them being successful on the pitch now to be fair as a statement it's probably correct the revenues are higher the money's coming in the fact the matter is for an owner of a football club to even contemplate not being successful on the picture but manchester United is horrific. You're talking about the Glazers, we spoke about that a couple of weeks. They're not going anywhere, are they?

32:56You're talking about Jim Ratcliffe more, aren't we?

32:59Gary Neville: I'm talking about the decision-making. I'm talking about... Haven't they passed it on to Ineos? Yeah, to Ineos, to Jim Ratcliffe, to Sporting Director, Jason Wilcox, Omar Barada. Are they going to stay there now?

33:08Ian Wright: If he comes, he's going to bring all these guys in?

33:12Gary Neville: At what point did they just carry on doing this in this loop? This loop? How many times did you get to go at this? Well, a loop just keeps going, doesn't it? Exactly.

33:25Ian Wright: It's a loop. They look like they're in the loop again. They've got to get out of the Matrix. They're like Neo in that train station where he can't get out of.

33:31Gary Neville: Right, you had a little bit of this with Arsenal, when you had Usmanov and you had the Kroenke family owning it, and the fans were absolutely marching against the owners. There was a massive problem. There was football failure, effectively, for quite a period of time. Underachievement, yeah. And there was discontent off the pitch. Arsenal sorted that out through a change in ownership

33:51Ian Wright: Yeah but it's not even that Arsenal sorted it out because obviously there was a time where they called him Silent Stan they weren't involved they weren't saying anything the owners but that was only until they bought 100 % shit

34:03Gary Neville: But the change that changed the direction

34:05Ian Wright: of the whole club Once they owned it if you're going to own something then you're going to start putting it in But righty

34:09Gary Neville: when people say oh forget about the owners the players on the pitch hang on a minute Arsenal are a great example FSG are a great example they had Hicks and Gillette before that now they've got FSG. Arsenal, they had the Usmanov family running it. Now, Kroenke come in... They weren't running it, Usmanov. He's trying to get involved. Josh Kroenke comes over, all of a sudden puts a lot of effort into it, and it changes the whole direction of a club. To say that an owner doesn't impact the outcome of a football club and think that it's just the players and the manager is wrong. It's just wrong. An ownership will change the direction of a football club.

34:39Gary Neville: So that is the ultimate change. And then the sporting department, this has been a mess for 13 years. United had a right for a long time. Is it like in any business, you get it right for you don't know about Arsenal getting it wrong Liverpool have got it wrong then they get it right you think it's shitty in all the answers the last few years is that just the nature of the business football where you go we'll have a success for 10-15 years then you go they seem to have everyone's looking at Brighton look what Brighton are doing now what were Brighton doing for the last 30 years you can't accept it Roy can you we can't accept it no you can't accept it but if we're talking about football and issues here today on the podcast and we're footballing people but that is that's a long term no Roy you've had bad owners as a manager where you thought not bad owners but you've had owners where you maybe felt you've not been supported properly from.

35:19Gary Neville: And how does that feel when you're looking up and you don't feel you're getting the support from above, from a sporting director or an owner? How does that make you feel as a manager when you're struggling upwards? No, I think it's part of your challenge, isn't it? I think when I hear managers going in, they leave, they go, oh, the promises they gave me last year didn't... I don't believe anything they tell you when you go in and you've got to battle the way if they're supporting. Is that right? What you've just said there, I like to think that when a manager comes into Salford, and by the way, it ends up badly, When I speak to a manager on the way in, Roy, I believe everything I'm saying to them.

35:51Gary Neville: Now, it might not go... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, people can move the goalposts as well. Things happen. Circumstances can change. I don't mean owners are going out of their way to try and trip you up, but circumstances change, whatever it might be. But, yeah, again, when I hear managers going, if clubs say there's going to be money to spend, just take all that with a pinch of salt. Because you don't know until you get into the job, really. The reality kicks in there. Like Carrick and December, we're all saying they needed some defenders. United's plan the last few years ago, and last year it was attacking players, this year they're going, and we're all footballing people.

36:21They say, well, it's got to start at the back. Why are goalkeepers going for huge money? Why do you have to be defensively solid to go, that's your foundation? Now, we know that. Are you telling me the people at United don't know that? Wilcox, because obviously he's played football at a good level. That's the confusing bit. And even Mike Carrick, but when he come this summer, I bet he's sitting with his staff and going, lads, we kind of got away with it last year. We got momentum, but now it's a real challenge. more games. We need to get better defenders. When the club is saying to you, we look at midfielders, no, no, we'll tell you what we need because we're the footballer people.

36:52Gary Neville: They spent£1.6 billion on players and they had one midfield player in the summer, one midfield player, Ugati, who's injured, sorry, it could be Manu, Ugati who's injured, they had one midfield player that was fit, right, and a defence that has failed over three or four years. How can that be? But how does that change? Will that change? Just because the new manager's coming in, will they now buy players or is it going to be the same problem?

37:15Ian Wright: All the guys upstairs. What's his name? Omar Barada.

37:18Gary Neville: There's got to be consequence, hasn't there? Above Michael, surely. And below Michael, for that matter. You're talking about Ineos, aren't you? So Jim Ratcliffe has been there for three or four years. They've got the manager on three or four times. And the recruitment on the back of that. So what I'm saying is you're saying they're the ones who should be going. How does that dynamic work? The Glazers actually own the club, but they've got a big majority. They're the ones running the club now. The best thing the Glazers have done is put them in charge. That's what they've done. So people are looking...

37:48Are you talking about them getting... Because the Glazers aren't going anywhere. The Glazers are... Well, they see the Carrick decision last year going. They'll say that was a good decision. Because he got them in the Champions League. And the revenues are coming in. Yeah, it's not worked this time. But we'll get another manager in, hopefully get momentum. And we'll get back to fourth or fifth. Because that seems to be available for lots of teams if you get momentum, fifth or sixth. So I reckon the owners are probably going, the Carrick thing kind of worked out. He goes in the Chapman's league.

38:16It's a short term. Last year it did. Why did they give him the job last year? Caretaker job. Their fear was we're going to miss up in the Chapman's league. They were frightened. They're not worried about the league title or Cubs. They're thinking, we need to be in the Chapman's league revenue-wise. So last year they'd probably go, that one worked out pretty well. OK, they shouldn't have given it to him in the summer. We all said that. But obviously panicked. They thought we'd give him another one or two year deal. And then we're all going. But is that decision from, again, business people, footballing people?

38:43Are they on the same page? Now, the chemistry, you go back to United when it was Ferguson and Gill, was it just between them two and the scouts? You know, when you got so many opinions.

38:51Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney+.

39:25We'll be right back.

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40:31Gary Neville: rivals is back and danny dyer i love that i believe you're a fan of danny dyer you're a You're a fan of Danny Dyer, aren't you? We should get Danny Dyer, Danny. That's what Ben told me this morning, the Fountain of Knowledge. You know what? I said Danny Webber. Who's the biggest personality that you've ever... Danny Dyer's got a massive personality, he's no wallflower. Who's the biggest personality that you've ever met in football? I'm going to say Gaza.

40:56Ian Wright: Oh, yeah.

40:57Gary Neville: Gaza's the biggest personality I've ever met. No one liked Gaza. Personality? Personality in training, personality in the warm-up, personality in the hotel. Yeah, I was with... Mad energy, didn't he? I was with Klopp on Thursday, name dropping here, but we did a charity thing, so we got charity people in today. We went over to Germany. So he's... flew to Frankfurt, where he played or managed when he was younger, mind, so he still lives there. There's a local restaurant, 15 of us went over. It was only supposed to be six, but 15 of us... And we got there and he started going, what? But he just, like...

41:31I mean, obviously, not... interviewed him, done different things, but what people see on camera is exactly what you see off camera. Who's that? Clop. So he just sat in, he just got up, like, you know, stop. He got up and just gave this speech, didn't know anyone, went right through it round, everyone, stand up, what's your name? How much have you paid for this? How much have you done that? And he just, like, funny, just like... A good company, huh? Yeah, brilliant. He put a nice little post out about your action. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I bet that went down. I'll probably go...

41:58Ian Wright: No, I thought it was nice. Obviously, Gazza was amazing, especially when you were with him in the England squad, he made it brilliant to be there. But I'd probably say Vinnie Jones. Vinnie Jones. Vincent the Jones boy. Yeah. I'd say Brian Clough, his biggest character. We need Vinnie on here, don't we? It'd be nice to get Vincent on. Brian Clough, biggest character. Never see the likes of him again, ever. You know, I see some of the clips of him when he used to do the TV. He's just brilliant. Everything he said was just, like, brilliant. Hitting the fans was unbelievable. That was brilliant. And he was waiting for one as well.

42:27Ian Wright: Whack. And then the next day, they apologise. Sorry if we've gone on to pitch Mr Club. And they were like too little and he was like... Brilliant. Sorry. He was brilliant. Jill? I actually worked with Gazza on a Channel 4 game and he has a massive personality, he just says it how it is. I don't think they wanted him to do live TV for that reason. Yeah, you could. But, yeah, I'm trying to think in terms of team mates. Ella Toome, she's a good personality, yeah. Probably like off the pitch, on the pitch.

43:01Gary Neville: Good. The award-winning series returns to Disney+. Watch the latest series of Rivals, a Hulu original series exclusively on Disney+.

43:17There's too many Mancunians on this show. Football, football. Football. It's all we talk about.

43:24Gary Neville: Every day. so come and join us on overlap daily

43:35every week monday to friday from 4 p.m

43:40Gary Neville: watch on youtube and listen wherever you get your podcasts it's just laughing it's football football football in that order overlap daily we'll see you soon

43:57Gary Neville: If you just look at it from a sort of skeletal position, you've got one group of owners who, to be fair, are remote and detached in the US. And how did they get involved in the front? There was a horse involved in that. Have you seen the amount of stuff that's come through you now? Just be quiet. You've got a group of owners in the US, in America, who don't come over. You've got ownership in Monaco, who, to be fair, is probably restricted in coming over. Of course, yeah. You've got a sporting director who's doing his first ever gig as a sporting director and you've got a manager who's doing his first ever gig as a Premier League manager.

44:33Gary Neville: If you just said that, if you just said that to yourself, if you had a business and you said, right, okay, the owners are never going to come in, they're never going to touch it and they're going to have an inexperienced CEO and they're going to have an inexperienced head of operations or manager and you're going to have an inexperienced director here, you'd be like, that's madness, isn't it? Yeah.

44:53Ian Wright: But let's get an inexperienced manager as well. just in case that's crazy in it the outcome's almost already written you

44:59Gary Neville: couldn't write it you could not write that script and then before that for the ten years before in EOS you had no sporting department no sporting director you had Ed Woodward playing football manager literally no football department should they go back to that just get rid of the football if you think about what's happening the point where now the club will keep saying this it's as if it's like it's a massive problem they've got 1.2 billion pounds of debt so you know before when you're saying have they not addressed the defence I'm a bit like that so if you're in that much debt and they need to fix the midfield and you're saying they need to buy a left back where do people think the money's they haven't got the money that's what I'm saying they've found a few bob to get midfielders if you look at it the owners of Manchester United right now haven't got the cash to be able to support a successful full football team.

45:52And you know what?

45:52Gary Neville: United aren't very good at. You're on about recruitment, moving players on. Oh, shocking. Like, Rashford, we go back to Rashford. Rashford, Rashford should have been moved down on. Arsenal done some good deals towards the end, didn't it? People talk about management, as you know, with Salford. It's not necessarily about getting players out.

46:08Ian Wright: We had a problem. Players out, getting lads off 200 or 300 grand a week and then go, no, we might be able to get a left back. That's where they don't seem to be getting a right either, moving players on. They still should have got a left back ages ago, though. and a midfielder. Ages ago. How long have we been talking about with Luke Shaw and his problems injury that should have had a left-back covering? Ages. They've gone for forwards. Went forwards now. Let's do the midfields. We'll do the centre-backs next season. Anyway, but you do have to believe a good manager come in maybe would get people...

46:36Ian Wright: Yeah, but Roy... A bit of togetherness. Let's talk about that, Roy. Yeah, but Potcher's got to do is keep him out of relegation now. Get him fit, they'll be all right. It could be. I liked him when he was on here. Let's talk about that

46:47Gary Neville: because a week on Sunday, Michael will, to be fair, be probably removed away from the thinking. There'll be a new project. We do that. I mean, to be fair, you know this. I've actually asked for Mauricio Potasini to be the manager of Manchester United probably throughout seven or eight years and he's finally going to get it. A bit late in the day for me, but he's going to get it. And he's going to be sat in the Anfield dugouts a week on Sunday. Do we think that this is an appointment that will take Manchester United back to a level whereby over three or four years, one, he can keep his job and he can deliver what would be maybe what Klopp did at Liverpool maybe what Arteta's done at Arsenal where there's just that gradual improvement that sort of what would be that feeling that you're on a journey and that something's happening do we feel that this can happen?

47:29Gary Neville: I think with Pochettino I think he's I think it's a really good appointment because I didn't right now Man United have to have somebody who's got Premier League experience because you're in a relegation fight right now it might change in the next four to six weeks so I was thinking Eddie Howe you're not doing a relegation fight no but what I'm saying is If you're inside the club, though, Roy, you'd always have that fear. You've just talked about the back foot. We don't. But I think the thought of bringing in someone who's never managed in the Premier League before, I think would scare you when you look at where Man United are in the league.

47:58So that's why I was thinking, Eddie, I never thought Pochettino would be available because he'd signed a new contract. But I think it's the best person United could have got. Premier League experience, manage real big clubs. I think he'd be able to carry himself in the media. He's well liked in the media. But he's got a huge reputation as a manager without getting the huge trophies. He's almost seen as like what you've just said. Could he do what? Arteta's got that now because he won the Premier League. But like what Klopp did. And his reputation is with those managers, but he hasn't actually got the big trophies.

48:29Do you know what I mean? But I think it ticks so many boxes. I think it is a really good appointment.

48:34Ian Wright: But, Jerm, what he done with Tottenham, bringing Tottenham to that right there. Ten years ago? Yeah, it was ten years ago. But like, all he needed then was the backing. He just wanted more players. He wanted to get some out. I mean, he's kept over to get something so he could go again and they didn't do it now. He's coming to United, obviously, you're saying that he'll get them fit and good luck. Because if Man United are fit, of course, they'll come out. We're talking about getting people fit. Yeah, but the thing is, if he gets them fit, obviously they'll climb off. But right now, Man United look in trouble, bro.

49:04He's got to get them running and defending properly. Massive problem. Players should just do that. How long was it Chelsea for? How long did he last?

49:12Gary Neville: He was at Chelsea for 23-24. Yeah, he was just there for one season at Chelsea. But he's more... I thought Man United might have to bring in almost like, not an interim manager, but almost a little bit more character last time and then you go again. But I think you're probably seeing Pochettino as a manager. No, he's not just to help now. This could be a three or four year. Absolutely. Of course, what I'm saying is eventually when he gets United back to challenge or qualify, the one thing he's never really done in his manager, he'll create which he'd have to do at United to be a success is get over the line in big trophies.

49:46You mentioned the media, I think don't underestimate the importance of a manager at United being good in front of the media. Well he's well respected isn't he? Yeah I think that is key, communication and the way you come across I think is huge, I think it's been a battle for character. I think do they get interviewed so much more or do we just see it so much more? There's more profile on it, yeah, the way he speaks and again we've had him on here I know we And he came across well on that. He seemed a nice and pretty cool guy. Will they give him time, though? You look at Arteta patients, will they get that time?

50:15Because I know what you're saying, like, three, four years, that's what these managers need, but they don't seem to get it. They don't... He'll get 18 months, as in, like, you'll... Sounds like a prison sentence. No, but what I'm saying is you've still got to... Even though you're talking about managing time, you've still got to... So we talk about Arteta, everyone says Arteta got to... He won the FA Cup in the first four months, he was in the job, So it gives the ownership a belief. And he beat big teams. I think he beat City in the semi and he beat Chelsea in the final. He beat Liverpool in the league early on.

50:44That's what Klopp did early on at Liverpool. Klopp won games early on. That gives you the belief going forward. So when they have a little bit of a rocky stage,

50:52Ian Wright: you stick with them because of what they've done before. The thing with Arsenal, though, the owners of Arsenal, they've got a record of really backing their managers. They brought him in as a... Remember, he came in as a number two. people took like he's coming number two, can Arsenal take it, he's not even managed he's coming out number two. Because this man, this ownership, they had faith in him, gave him the reins and then they made him manager. Now he's running everything and look what he's turning around. Well if you're working within the club, I still can't believe what he's done to me. You said you made a mistake earlier, Salfi, you sacked certain managers, you probably should stick with him.

51:24But there must be a feeling again at United when people, if Wilcox is there every day, you don't give a manager a bit more time. but if he's working and he's down at the training ground watching Carrick and his staff and watching him pre-season they're obviously clearly not looking at him going don't worry like when Klopp first went to Liverpool I know he had a better reputation and more experienced CV but Liverpool was a struggle but I bet there was a don't worry things are changing we feel it obviously at United they're looking at Carrick going there's nothing changing there we're not getting that feeling that things are on the turn and that's where you've got to back an experienced man even if he's going through a sticky patch going he'll get through this and what happened with Carey because of his lack of experience there was no belief that he would turn it around because he's not really done it before

52:06Gary Neville: I'm sure Maurizio Pochettino is doing this but if you were coming into this job now you talked about don't believe an owner on the way in about what they're going to spend and they can move the goal yeah but no don't believe him but just take him with a pinch of salt if I was Maurizio Pochettino now I would be literally protecting myself up to the high heaven in respect of he'll do that with a payoff so he'll sack him you do that in your contract but secondly he needs two defenders in January. So he's got to insist that he gets two defenders in January. He's got to insist that he gets a minimum budget next summer for the transfer window to be able to turn this around.

52:40Gary Neville: He's got to insist that he gets a budget. Can they do it? Can they? Look, I'm saying he's got to literally insist that the... Yeah, but you're asking for things that they might not be able to give him. They have to give it to him or else he shouldn't take the job. If you're not going to give him... Look, without that defence and that midfield, by the way, and that midfield's had some money spent on it... You're saying they've got to get two defenders. They've got to get two good defenders, not just defenders. So my point is he's got to insist on the way in that there's some form of transfer control, that there's some form of budget there that he knows he can meaningfully change the team.

53:10Gary Neville: I'm not saying he's going to go... Benricio, I don't think he's the type of manager either that would say, give me half a billion. I don't think he's that type of guy. I think he's someone who's a bit more responsible and will look at things. And he'll want to bring players through and he'll want to develop young players. I get that. And he'll do that. I just think he needs to protect himself in this next 12 months for the transfer budget. That would be the first thing he does. But they say you're at your strongest when you go in. Absolutely. The only time you can insist upon it is at the very beginning.

53:31Gary Neville: He needs two defenders in January. Because if they have Dorghu at left-back, Masrowi at right-back and Hevin and Yoro at centre-back, he will have to do one hell of a job coaching to get them in the league. But is that not part of your job, truthfully? To do some coaching? Not to make these players a way better, no I'm on a boat, but at least be a bit more compact lads. Let's tuck in when we haven't got it. United, that is a coach's job. because when you go into a club, you might go get... You know, sometimes clubs, lower leagues, are going, no, you've got to work with what you've got. You do all your coaching badges, you've got to work with certain players.

54:01It's not always about going and getting better players.

54:03Gary Neville: Roy, on Sunday, those first two goals, they were all behind the ball. No, no, no. No, no, no. First goal on Sunday, literally, they're in a position whereby... Not in the build-up to it. I know what you mean. Listen, I've watched it back. But it's well and good to be behind the ball, but you've got to get behind the ball and want to do a job. Yeah.

54:23Gary Neville: There's still£1 million up for grabs with Super 6, and this month someone is guaranteed to become a millionaire. If nobody predicts all six correct scores before the final weekend of November, the player who scores the most points in that final round will take home the million pounds. Wow. All you have to do is predict the correct scores of six football matches and get all six spot on, and you could be the one celebrating a life-changing win. and the best bit, it's completely free to play. 18 plus, terms and conditions apply. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney+. Manchester City, just a quick touch on Manchester City because I thought, watching the game on Saturday, I thought that was alarming to be honest with you and Maresca after the game said that basically players were not challenging for duels, second balls.

55:13Gary Neville: Can you imagine though? That was the manager's fault, the way he set up there. You can't have a midfield. I'm sure that midfield played... You mean Enzo and Anderson? Yeah, but they're not playing like that. So what I'm saying is that I'm sure that midfield played at home against PSG and he had to change it and of course not Forrest and not PSG. But Anderson is not a Rodri. He's a brilliant player. He should be playing with a Rodri. So you remember how Man City played last year when they had a great run, beat Arsenal in the Cup final. It was Rodri and Bernardo Silva and he's almost stayed there.

55:44He's got Enzo almost playing like a number 10 in a pocket. You've got Cherky in there, who's an unbelievable talent, and you've got Anderson. And it's like, no, no, one of them's got to come out the team and have a Rodri-type figure, but they've got the 18-year-old. Rodri, yeah. So he's not going to play every week, because he's probably a young lad, but that's his fault. It's not like he can go, oh, them players are not putting their foot in. They're not them type of players. They're always thinking forward.

56:08Gary Neville: He played that team away at Old Trafford, didn't he? And we thought, would he play Nico O 'Reilly in midfield that day, if you remember? Because he can play in there, can't he? He always does that thing when he puts a full-back into midfield, doesn't he, Guardiola? No, I mean put actual Nico Rale in central midfield. Yeah, maybe, yeah. But giving the ball away cheaply, lads, if we go back to that, giving the ball away cheaply, the defender's taking chances.

56:30Ian Wright: Jamie, do you see Enzo? What's he doing at the moment? Because I can't see it. He's playing the same role as he played at Chelsea, where he's sort of like... You know what managers do now when they've got possession and one of the full-backs comes into midfield, Pep is doing it. Yeah. And then Enzo, so he's not really a central midfield player. He's almost like a number eight or something. He's always trying to get in the box, basically, isn't he? He's never there next to his man. But I don't think that's him. I think that's the manager, sort of how he wants them set up. I think they need to get the balance right.

57:02I know in midfield, it's not about just putting the best players on the pitch. It's who works with you. And I totally agree. Anderson is so isolated. And you can afford to have Shirky, who's going to get an amazing goal in a moment. but then Anderson needs some help because we're so open. I think it was the lap when he scored, Anderson's jumped because he hasn't got any other help. And then he was kind of protecting in front of the lap. It wasn't just that game, if you go back to the game against him, we didn't see it because it wasn't live on TV. Do you remember the Sunderland game about six weeks ago?

57:33I think they beat Sunderland. What was the score? 6-3, 5-3? Yeah, I was there actually. What score was it? Robby actually, yeah, 5-3. And Sunderland, who have probably been one of the poorest teams in the league this season, having to do a bottom of the league, weren't they at the weekend? They just scored two or three goals on the counter. Yeah.

57:49Gary Neville: I think when you ask what Enzo is, I think Enzo is very similar to Gimaraes in his style of play in terms of he's a bit of a wanderer in Arsenal, still trying to find out and work out how that's going to work. But the problem is Enzo was 125 million and Gimaraes is 75 million. And I don't think there's a lot between them in terms of actually players. I think they're very similar in terms... They do remind me of Juan Sebastian Varon a little bit, Roy. It's just that midfield play, a bit Bruno-ish almost, That midfield play that you can't really control, you're almost like a leash type thing. You can't hear you because you're never quite where you want them to be, but they can go and win you a game, but they can also empty midfield a little bit.

58:21Gary Neville: And I think Arsenal are still fine in that bit. I think in big games, Arsenal will probably go to Myles Lewis-Skelly and Ozil Bermendie and Rice, and he might move forward one or he might come out. It reminds me a bit of that. When you say, what's Enzo? I think he's a bit like Gimaraish.

58:34Ian Wright: It's interesting to spend that much money, especially with that. What about Buadi? What I've seen of him, he looks like he can get a back of the field. Can't he play? Because I would have played. Nick O 'Reilly, can't you bring Nick O 'Reilly in to do that? He brought him on at half-time, didn't he? I can't understand why they even bought him with what they've got. Enzo's operating in so many different parts of the pitch. I think his duels won is like 45%. But that shows that he's not operating in that one part where he can win his duels. That's what I'm saying. Getting fraud and getting goals, that's his game.

59:02Gary Neville: I don't know what he's doing. Do we buy into it? I said on TV on the weekend, I wonder if now this massive high that they've had this build up to this Liverpool game where obviously there's been massive attention they've had this massive mental and sort of what would be emotional ride as a football club and the players have obviously got people you know their agents are probably thinking what happens if you do go down what happens if you get 40 points and all the mates are probably you imagine that sort of negativity is there now an element of they've sort of lived it for a couple of weeks and they've been alright there and all of a sudden it's just hit them and that we're seeing this now this almost like emotional dip maybe I think there's something There must be something.

59:38Gary Neville: It has to impact that team. There's no way. It just has to.

59:40Ian Wright: But you're talking about, as players, even when you're going around the place, you're mulling over things in your head.

59:45Gary Neville: Imagine your agents, your wife, what if we have to move? Your wife is everything.

59:51Ian Wright: There's no way. We've seen them seven on the spin and then they've lost three on the spin. They've won seven on the spin and three on the spin. When was the last time Man City even lost three on the spin? I can't even remember. We're talking about... And Pep's gone, remember? We're talking about something. We've never seen this before. There's going to be a reaction to Pep leaving. Is there any players in history that's had to go through what we're seeing City players have to go through now? I can't remember anything like that. Maybe Juventus, I don't know. But whatever was going to happen with Juventus, they got relegated.

1:00:15Ian Wright: But I've never seen it in England. Nowhere near.

1:00:18Gary Neville: I think also, it's the unknown and the waiting that any day in the next move... As a player, what are you playing for?

1:00:23Ian Wright: What are you playing for? Am I going to win something? What's going to happen? The keeper's a problem, isn't he, at the moment? Not even at the moment. The more I look at him, you think, Luis Enrique got rid of him when he won the Champions. and you look at him coming in, you're thinking he's going to be up there. He's nowhere near Raya, is he? I think he's not the goalkeeper they thought they would get. They should have kept Trafford. They went early on Trafford because they got him in. He's only given up eight goals for the other season. United 19, Trafford. But, yeah, it's got to be effective.

1:00:52Ian Wright: The emotional. Absolutely has to be. But has Paratel been a professional footballer, on the other hand? Do you have a situation like this? Yeah, but isn't that part of the game? Footballers, you've been through stuff, afterfield stuff, People have marriage stuff, whatever. No, it's not the same. This is what you're going to do. Drink fucking drugs. Tobacco. We've heard so many times from footballers, what's the best place to be? Out on the pitch? Yeah, but for City now, you'd say, what's the best place to be out on the pitch? No-one wants you out there. That's their own fault, isn't it? That's on them.

1:01:22Ian Wright: No, not the players, it's on them upstairs for putting them in this position. I could totally understand the players, how they feel now. Just walking around thinking, what's happening this season? They're all right. Don't give him too many excuses. This is a Jamie. OK, one last question.

1:01:35Gary Neville: To be fair, we got embroiled in the studio. I was over in America at the weekend.

1:01:43Gary Neville: Bogle's tackle on... Oh, my God, I forgot who's on now. They played the Spurs, didn't they? On Tell. Matthias Tell. Matthias Tell. The Leeds V thing. The tackle. Red card or yellow card or no card? He catches him on the Achilles, doesn't he? But he doesn't... He's just running and he catches him. He's just running, yeah. I don't think they're red cards. Listen, I know it's painful, but if he's running... If I'm running, I'm thinking I'm going to tackle him.

1:02:13Ian Wright: But you know the thing is, again, with that kind of injury, he's not moved himself to try and reach him. He's just running. I don't know. So we've got to recognise that. The Kangolsa play. I'm sorry about that. Mick Harford, when he's stamping on us.

1:02:28Gary Neville: I don't know who Mick Arford was. I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said that. It was a maximum yellow. You didn't get a yellow for it.

1:02:34Ian Wright: Can't they see that? He's not changed his pattern to try and angle. Some players are very clever, I'm telling you. Even doing it in natural rhythm. I'm not about catching somebody, he ran across me.

1:02:45Gary Neville: So we're all in agreement, no red. Not for me. No red. It's got to be something that's like a serious two-footed knee tackle. I wanted to cover that because I felt passionately that wasn't a red card. What did Phil say? Definitely not a red. We've done that quite a few times in terms of that type of... Yeah, we've done that where you basically... Because he goes to tackle with his right leg and goes to put his foot down. How many times after games would you have them little cuts down your Achilles where they're just all the time? But when you slow something down, it just looks so bad. Mike Lohan did me at Anfield.

1:03:19Gary Neville: Did he get you on the... Did he rake you? He did me. I had about ten stitches in my ankle, but the blood was flying out and I thought, he's fucking done me there and I can't get him back. You've done your forheader as well when you were... LAUGHTER I'm 51 and I'm still giving a goal away every week. You know, when he just... And Nev's like that. And he just got in front of him.

1:03:42Ian Wright: Michael loves going to be on the other one. Is that actually true? That was the FA Cup game. Is it true? Lucky we came back. Was it against Gary? Yeah. I give a goal away every week. You're sure that.

1:03:51Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney+.

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1:05:20Gary Neville: We're going to do a few non-football stuff today. Go on then, go. Take us away from United. What is something everyone should try once? I'm not answering. I don't know who comes up with these questions, but maybe it's the community. Everything you should try once. Everything you should try once. Everything you should try once. We jumped out of a plane. Yeah, it's too dangerous. Oh, it was awful. I couldn't do that. It was awful.

1:05:50Ian Wright: You know what I found really good? It's scuba diving. Yeah, that's good. That was amazing. That was amazing. I'd say if you tried that, you'd probably like it. How deep did you go? I don't know. It was like 20 feet or something. I was quite scared because, you know, you have to do the thing where you have to... Yeah, it is scary. That's frightening.

1:06:11Gary Neville: That's not scuba diving. That's fucking snorkelling.

1:06:13Ian Wright: No, no, no. If you've got a thing in your mouth... When you're underneath, you have to be able to equalise yourself and put it back in underneath. Don't do it. You're asking him how deep he went and he's doing that.

1:06:26Gary Neville: That's definitely something to say. Right, let's move on. Why don't you just clip it up with that? Oh, I want to. Oh, man, honestly. Go on the yellow wall and watch Prussia Dortmund. Oh, yeah. You did that, didn't you? Once.

1:06:44Ian Wright: Something unbelievable.

1:06:46Gary Neville: That's when you got to tell Enough After for being drunk, didn't you were interviewing people no but what I'm saying is go there bring drinks onto the stand yeah it's good yellow all British Dortmund go to a Super Bowl yeah yeah Super Bowl was good heaven says the a what about you they've ever played something you know he was there he went to the last one they're sort of social I need slot he took his life to where he was he was on social I was at Boca Juniors game.

1:07:14Ian Wright: Let's go. I would have said Scooby-Doo. But I'd only do it once because I was scared when you look up and the sea is all the way up there, you do panic. It's a beautiful, silent... But there is a whole other world underneath the water. Aliens.

1:07:29Gary Neville: What strange questions. What is the correct temperature for central heating? 22. 21. What is this podcast becoming? I go 21.

1:07:36Ian Wright: It's 22. 21-22. I like being...

1:07:39Gary Neville: What is it? What is it? I don't know. There's no answer. It must be like, what do you have your central heating on? What is the greatest dessert of all time? Sticky toffee pudding.

1:07:51Ian Wright: I've done one the other day and I put sticky toffee pudding in about seven or eight.

1:07:55Gary Neville: You should have seen how much stick I've got.

1:07:58Ian Wright: I'm going to probably go away. Trifle's awful. Trifle's beautiful. Jam roly-poly. You know what? I do love tiramisu recently, but I'd have to say apple pie and custard. Yeah, it's up there.

1:08:08Gary Neville: It's the best. Jam roly-poly. Sticky toffee pudding with an ice cream. I'm going to go with trifle. This is too sweet. It's got to be a good trifle, though. It can't be a crap trifle. That's like with cream on top and a bit of jam and a bit of wet. Yeah, it's all wet. Tustard, sponge and jelly. It is like a bowl of wetness, you're right. When is the right time to put up a Christmas tree? Oh, my God, I'm getting mine. Well, I feel glad. Isn't it 12 days before? Isn't that a thing? I think first of December. As soon as you get into December. Mine's going up next week. I've had Christmas songs on since October.

1:08:43It just makes us so happy. I know. I'm sad. I do like Christmas. Do you?

1:08:48Ian Wright: I like doing the trees. I do love putting the stuff on the trees. What do you think of a Christmas tree? When do you take it down? Have a nice scotch and just do it. Isn't it supposed to be 12 days after Christmas? Isn't that the word to be 12 days before or 12 days after?

1:09:01Gary Neville: Who watches the most football round the table? Jamie. Maybe Roy. You watch a lot.

1:09:07Ian Wright: One of you two, that's for sure. I was watching Wigan last night anyway, on the Red Bull. I think I watched the most live football. Maybe. Probably. Roy watches a lot. You watch a lot, don't you? I was watching you think, not recently. You watch a different...

1:09:18Gary Neville: What do you mean? You mean actually in the stadium? In the stadium. I think I probably watched most in stadium.

1:09:24Ian Wright: No, it was most football. Jamie watches the most football. Can't believe you went to New York and you missed the FA Cup, came Salford and Caroline. I watched it. Yeah, but live, like... Yeah, I know. Was he disappointed, you got it? No... How's it feel? Gary? Did you want to go with... Was you happy to go? No, I'm never happy to go out, no. Gary, I missed the Man United game cos I was having a lovely Sunday dinner at your hotel, it was nice. Oh, was it good? Yeah, I took some of my friends. But I missed the game. Didn't know that, he didn't tell me you were going. The ex-all for manager, Carl, back in Bromley.

1:09:56Yes. Yeah. Is he going to Bromley? I messaged him, actually. Yeah, I missed him. Are they bottom of league? I watched them live two weeks ago. They played Wigan. Wigan won their own. Big game. Hard job for them. They've only just come up.

1:10:14Gary Neville: He romped the league that you were in last year. Which player in the Premier League is the most vital for their team? If you took one player out of one team, what would have the biggest lull, the biggest drop, depression? Dettla Mice Harland Harland Gio Pedro for Chelsea a completely different team and he's not how good have Brighton been oh that goal oh my god have you seen her goals against as well defensively that's a good thing

1:10:46Ian Wright: they're doing it as a collective aren't they

1:10:47Gary Neville: I think Haskell Gross's numbers are unbelievable since he's come back unbelievable so Scholes he said it last week I think on his podcast so basically City play Brighton on a Wednesday night in the Carabao Cup and then they play them on the Saturday in the league at 3 o 'clock. So they asked me about six weeks before, can they train at Salford? I got contact from Jimbo, you remember him used to be a sports scientist at United. And they trained on a Friday morning on Salford's main pitch. And Scholes, he went to watch him train and he rang me that afternoon. He went, oh my God. He said, I can't believe what I've just seen.

1:11:24He said, I've trained the speed,

1:11:26Gary Neville: the intensity the quality it was unbelievable and he literally ran me up he was like oh like scolsy to be like that your skulls is quite difficult to please you know what i mean and then they go and do what's impressive and then on the saturday they go and beat city at city and you think to yourself do you think about what happens on the training pitch and because it's to be a skulls you think it's in a high level of training in his time he'll listen intensity listen and he said it was unbelievable wow that's good good to hear unbelievable because they're

1:11:50Ian Wright: putting the work in aren't they that's how they're getting results and i think that's high for him

1:11:53Gary Neville: to say you know what he's like he said right I know I go back to United but earlier someone watched a bit of Arsenal I know somebody watched a bit of Arsenal preseason I know it's preseason and a few days later we're watching what United were doing they were like chalk and cheese the intensity whatever was going on the training I know that's preseason but I love hearing that I love when I hear you said not it just it was Friday they took it easy day before the game I said it was sharp as hell it was intense that everything was quality

1:12:18Ian Wright: says honestly it was blown away the way they're training right they probably They'd take anyone on now, wouldn't they? It's just like, how far can they go?

1:12:26Gary Neville: He's going to interview Fabien Herzler next week. He's an interesting fella. He's got something about him, hasn't he? He's got a personality, he's a bit spiky on the touch line.

1:12:35Ian Wright: We'll watch that one.

1:12:37Gary Neville: Any questions we'd like Jamie to ask Fabien Herzler? It's for Sky, not the overlap. No. Anything we'd like him to ask? I'm not helping you then. Why did I cancel my trial? I was supposed to have a trial at Brighton when I was 14. Yeah.

1:12:51Ian Wright: Who's the manager then? Can you get that in? Chris Catlin was one who let me go at 19. Just get to the bottom of that. Yeah, yeah, we'll find out. Ask him about that. Why did you let Ian Wright go at 19? Chris Catlin, why did you let me go? I'm scarred.

1:13:05Gary Neville: Do you know what I would like to know? Is how the hell do they get recruitment right year in, year out when they lose players? Yeah, but they got it wrong for 30 years, Gary. I know, but since the new owners come in, how do they get that so right? They're stats, they do the stats. Even to do this for five, six years, are doing what they do. Amazing. It's unbelievable. Brilliant.

1:13:27Ian Wright: They've probably got the money to back up the data, what they're doing, and then they can find someone. They don't need to go and say, oh, someone's found him, let's nick him off. They know where they are, so they've got the money to be able to go and get them as well.

1:13:39Gary Neville: They just literally sign players, obviously they're looking at them as well, but they sign players and they sign managers purely off-data, don't they? The data doesn't work, they don't sign them. I mean, it's like... Money balls. But Brentford do the same, don't they? Scouts, everything's just off data. That's what someone said to me the other day when I was talking about going there, whether that's true or not. But that's what they're saying, a lot of it's off AI and data. You get to the bottom of it when you're speaking to him. I can't wait for this interview. I was going to cancel my flight.

1:14:03They had the data. He doesn't get back.

1:14:07Gary Neville: He's good going that way. He's 14. End of the episode. Well done, everybody. Well done.

1:14:19This has been a Global and the Overlap production.

1:14:40Gary Neville: Thanks to our title sponsors, Disney+. We'll see you next time.